Quel crack ce Brigadier Gerard. Un de mes plus grand amour. Juste après Sea Bird. Quant à Dahlia, c'était une jument extraordinaire qui a eut le malheur d'être née la même année qu'Allez France.
Zarakhast..I much as i love DB(he is my fave horse).Sometimes we have took beyond our rose coloured specs and accept there were some great great horses before DB.The brigadier is one of the alltime greats.Over a mile there is not or has there ever been a horse to match him.You need to digest and accept this.
As far as DB and BG over a 10 furlongs..well that is a totally different matter.I would have DB on that one and over 12 furlongs too.
With all due respect what Dancing Brave demonstrates is 'acceleration', not 'speed'. Brigadier Gerard would be ridden to hit the front earlier than D B and no horse ever passed him, a mark of B G's speed. That said, a mile and a half was probably 2 furlongs to many for the Brigadier whilst D B could handle it quite easily. Over a mile or ten furlongs I'd back the Brigadier but we'll never know will we. Both were great champions of their time.
Brigadier Gerard doesn't surge clear like Dancing Brave did in 1986 - and yet the commentator makes such a fuss. There's no brilliant turn of foot here as far as I can see. He was obviously a great horse but he certainly wasn't as impressive in his KG as Dancing Brave was in his. Finishing speed is ALL when distinguishing between greats, because there's nothing else to go on if the horses are more than three or four years apart. Dancing Brave was better than Brigadier Gerard.
@zarakhast the brigadier won 13 group 1 races,he won the the goodwood mile by 10ls the sussex stakes by 5 ls,the queen elizabeth 11 stakes by8ls.....over 12 furlongs i would go for the brave,10 furlongs,i will be impartial and say dead heat,but over the mile its simply no contest the brigadier is the best miler thats ever lived
@darwinbhoy no he didn´t win 13 gr1s, he won the middle park, gns, sussex, champion, eclipse, king george and a 2nd champion. a total of gr1s the same as Mill Reef who won 6 gr1s off the bat.
When he was beaten Roberto Timeform said that he had probably ran to form and that Roberto had just way above his usual form but would not rate him as such as it was a freak. which imo was wrong, Roberto put up the greatest performance of any thoroughbred ever that day
@losarman Never really thought about it like that before because the general assumption was that BG had run below his best. However, as I only know of the event as a history lesson I can' really comment. What I do know is that I have never seen a horse over a mile, and that includes Miesque, Zilzal, El Gran Senor, Dancing Brave, George Washington, Goldikova, Canford Cliffs etc etc etc, that could beat Frankel (at his best).
@Pactrolus Frankel does look exceptional but you must remember that BG ran in 6 top races and won the gns without a prior race and beat Mill Reef and My Swallow. Those were two great champions in their own right. Also BG was a weaver which makes the training of him a true masterpiece
Certainly no more impressive than Dancing Brave's win in terms of winning distance and much less impressive in terms of finishing speed. Dancing Brave would have had too much finishing speed for "The Brigadier". You only have to watch the respective races to realize that that would have been so. It amazes me how little attention is paid to actual finishing SPEED - because that's the genuine difference. If two horses have equal stamina then the one with the more speed will win.
Brigadier Gerard is my horse's great grandsire :)
emilyrg99 5 months ago
Quel crack ce Brigadier Gerard. Un de mes plus grand amour. Juste après Sea Bird. Quant à Dahlia, c'était une jument extraordinaire qui a eut le malheur d'être née la même année qu'Allez France.
ramierechristiane 7 months ago
Zarakhast..I much as i love DB(he is my fave horse).Sometimes we have took beyond our rose coloured specs and accept there were some great great horses before DB.The brigadier is one of the alltime greats.Over a mile there is not or has there ever been a horse to match him.You need to digest and accept this.
As far as DB and BG over a 10 furlongs..well that is a totally different matter.I would have DB on that one and over 12 furlongs too.
But over a mile...noooo wayyyy
sonofscrewcap 2 years ago
With all due respect what Dancing Brave demonstrates is 'acceleration', not 'speed'. Brigadier Gerard would be ridden to hit the front earlier than D B and no horse ever passed him, a mark of B G's speed. That said, a mile and a half was probably 2 furlongs to many for the Brigadier whilst D B could handle it quite easily. Over a mile or ten furlongs I'd back the Brigadier but we'll never know will we. Both were great champions of their time.
FullMontyUK 2 years ago
Brigadier Gerard doesn't surge clear like Dancing Brave did in 1986 - and yet the commentator makes such a fuss. There's no brilliant turn of foot here as far as I can see. He was obviously a great horse but he certainly wasn't as impressive in his KG as Dancing Brave was in his. Finishing speed is ALL when distinguishing between greats, because there's nothing else to go on if the horses are more than three or four years apart. Dancing Brave was better than Brigadier Gerard.
zarakhast 2 years ago
@zarakhast the brigadier won 13 group 1 races,he won the the goodwood mile by 10ls the sussex stakes by 5 ls,the queen elizabeth 11 stakes by8ls.....over 12 furlongs i would go for the brave,10 furlongs,i will be impartial and say dead heat,but over the mile its simply no contest the brigadier is the best miler thats ever lived
darwinbhoy 1 year ago
@darwinbhoy I wonder if your last statement is still true...........
Pactrolus 6 months ago
@Pactrolus see my comment below
losarman 5 months ago
@darwinbhoy no he didn´t win 13 gr1s, he won the middle park, gns, sussex, champion, eclipse, king george and a 2nd champion. a total of gr1s the same as Mill Reef who won 6 gr1s off the bat.
When he was beaten Roberto Timeform said that he had probably ran to form and that Roberto had just way above his usual form but would not rate him as such as it was a freak. which imo was wrong, Roberto put up the greatest performance of any thoroughbred ever that day
losarman 5 months ago
@losarman Never really thought about it like that before because the general assumption was that BG had run below his best. However, as I only know of the event as a history lesson I can' really comment. What I do know is that I have never seen a horse over a mile, and that includes Miesque, Zilzal, El Gran Senor, Dancing Brave, George Washington, Goldikova, Canford Cliffs etc etc etc, that could beat Frankel (at his best).
Pactrolus 5 months ago
@Pactrolus Frankel does look exceptional but you must remember that BG ran in 6 top races and won the gns without a prior race and beat Mill Reef and My Swallow. Those were two great champions in their own right. Also BG was a weaver which makes the training of him a true masterpiece
losarman 5 months ago
Certainly no more impressive than Dancing Brave's win in terms of winning distance and much less impressive in terms of finishing speed. Dancing Brave would have had too much finishing speed for "The Brigadier". You only have to watch the respective races to realize that that would have been so. It amazes me how little attention is paid to actual finishing SPEED - because that's the genuine difference. If two horses have equal stamina then the one with the more speed will win.
zarakhast 2 years ago