Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Virgin Mary Debate Part 9 - Dr. James White

[sksman71]

I believe James white was better prepared in this debate.I would say that Mary did have an active role in redemption.Trough the guile of eve Adam was deceived and humanity was lost.Trough Mary we would be redeemed from the new Adam who is Christ Jesus.It was Marys "Yes" Vs. Eves "No" this is the difference but Christ alone is our redemption but with out Marys obedience our lord and savior could not be borne.

[xchampx]

@sksman71 Can you tell me how you can justify this? Read galatians. Jesus + anything (including mary) = No gospel at all.

[Cherubaby]

There is NO Mediator between YOU and JESUS. If there is, then the Son of GOD died in Vain.

[happybozy101768]

This is hyperdulia (but not latria which is worship owed to God alone). We too can go through Mary to praise Jesus. Finally, Catholics repeat these divinely inspired words of Elizabeth in the Rosary.

[happybozy101768]

Luke 1:42 - "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus." The phrase "blessed are you among women" really means "you are most blessed of all women." A circumlocution is used because there is no superlative in the Greek language. Note also that Elizabeth praises Mary first, and then Jesus.

[happybozy101768]

Luke 1:28 - also, the phrase "full of grace" is translated from the Greek word "kecharitomene." This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just "highly favored." She has been perfected in grace by God. "Full of grace" is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

[happybozy101768]

Luke 1:28 - "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you." These are the words spoken by God & delivered to us by the angel Gabriel (who is a messenger of God). Thus, when Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God.

[happybozy101768]

en 3:15 / Rev. 12:1 - the Scriptures begin and end with the woman battling satan. This points to the power of the woman with the seed and teaches us that Jesus and Mary are the new Adam and the new Eve.

John 2:4, 19:26 - Jesus calls Mary "woman" as she is called in Gen. 3:15. Just as Eve was the mother of the old creation, Mary is the mother of the new creation. This woman's seed will crush the serpent's skull.

[happybozy101768]

Gen. 3:15 - we see from the very beginning that God gives Mary a unique role in salvation history. God says "I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed." This refers to Jesus (the "emnity") and Mary (the "woman"). The phrase "her seed" (spermatos) is not seen elsewhere in Scripture.

[happybozy101768]

If I complimented you and gave good reverence to you for your good deeds, faith, and so forth, is that wrong?

Now, if I'm to get down on my hands and knees and call you "Lord", then that would be a big problem. That'd be more like false worshipping and blaspheming...a grievous offense against God.

Just some food for thought.

God bless! :)

[happybozy101768]

If one is to love a friend and come to his house, he doesn't just recognize and communicate with him, but with EVERYONE around him! His parents, friends, and so forth. To like him, one must like EVERYTHING about him!

Same with Jesus. If one is to love and follow Jesus, one must be acquainted, honor and respect His Mother, apostles, all the great men of old, His angels, saints, and all that are with Him!

If I asked you to pray for me, what harm is there in it?

[happybozy101768]

Now, I'm not at all condemning Protestants or other Christian religions. Who am I to do so? I can't judge or anything. Besides, we all believe in the SAME God Who lives and loves!

I only wanted to point out that, before one jumps to conclusions and maybe gossip against the faith of the Catholics, one should ask and research WHY and HOW the Catholics worship, pray, how their faith works...and understand that they are the oldest Christian religion started by Peter whom Jesus appointed as head.

[happybozy101768]

The problem with the debates amongst Protestants and other Christian religions outside of Catholic faith is that the Catholics are so often and sadly misunderstood. One, looking in from the outside, doesn't really see the heart of faith and God's Word and does misinterpret the meaning of them. Many have very good insight and are led by the Spirit, but when it comes to debating Catholicism, they are misled in wrong misunderstandings for the reasons why we do things, how we pray, and so forth.

[happybozy101768]

@soterioss8787 So, really...to be Jesus' true follower, one must imitate Him and sacrifice and die to himself, turn away from all that is worldly and of flesh. One must be pure with faith and love. It's difficult to do so on our own, but, through Jesus, it's possible.

[happybozy101768]

@soterioss8787 Actually, you were right. In contrast to what the one said, Jesus never said "hate", but to turn away from brother/sister/parents in order to follow Him. I gather that He meant, like in the example of the sons of Zebedee. He called them and they left their fishing nets and their father to follow Him. However, they never "hated" their father. He also said, in the next verse, that one must deny his very self and take up his cross daily if he were to be the follower of Jesus.

[happybozy101768]

I'd like to say Dr. James White talk and oppose against Mary over at Lourdes, France where St. Bernadette had miracles happen through Mary and through Jesus, as well as at Fatima, Portugal where Lucia and her brother and sister had seen the Virgin Mary and also where great miracles happened there. What about Guadelupe? What about St. Maximillian Kolbe? St. Louis De Montfort? And the list goes on and on... So much history of events throughout the world that people fail to see or believe...

[happybozy101768]

The Bible and the Church are our sources to learn about God and how to live our daily life...BUT taught also, and mostly, by the Holy Spirit.

The Bible didn't specify all the saints, about us individually, about what happens every day...do you know how HUGE the Word would be?? There's no way that the Bible can contain so much information...not enough books!

Don't get me wrong...I'm not at all saying anything against God's Word nor do I dare! I just make a point that God reveals much to us, too

[happybozy101768]

One other thing...we all have the right to say "yes" or "no" to God...to obey or disobey as is our choice. Mary had that same option, but she always said "yes" to God! Hmmm...why is Mary so special? Many reasons here are given and many more in the teachings of the Church and through Jesus. Jesus loved His mother very, very much and He gave her to us! What a wonderful gift!

There are many things that the Bible doesn't have, but it is the Word of God that tells much about life and about God.

[happybozy101768]

It's not at all to say that she was with God, from the beginning, but that she was created in human form the same as you and me...except for sin. God knew exactly what He was doing for the salvation of mankind.

I could go on and on with this. But...there are so many factors that have been missed and misunderstood by those from the outside looking into the Catholic Church. Before criticizing and ridiculing the Church, I feel they should do more studies, research, and talk to the right people.

[happybozy101768]

Mary's role is as Jesus' mother and our mother through Jesus. Otherwise, why would He give John, our brother, His mother while dying on the cross?

Jesus is our King and King of the Universe. However, can't He also have Mary by His side as Queen of Heaven? Who are we to debate this? He never appointed Mary as equal to the Holy Trinity. Not at all! He set her aside, separate from us who's been born in sin, as to be pure and immaculate as she was chosen, from the beginning, to be the Mother of God

[happybozy101768]

Nobody is adding words to the Scripture. Alot of teachings and events are also from the revelation of God.

Many people, I've talked to, consistently think that we worship Mary and this is false misunderstanding. Even Mary, herself, has told us not to worship her as she can't help us or do anything unless if it's through Jesus. Again, she's not drawing our attention solely to her, but to Christ.

[happybozy101768]

Furthermore, which came first - the Church or the Bible? The answer is the Church. The Bible was written by man, through the Word of God, some years later. The Church teaches God's Word and, every Christian Church I know, carries the Bible. The Church translates the Bible through the Spirit of God and with the authority of God.

The Catholic Church teaches the doctrines on the Virgin Mary through the translations of Scripture, through visions of Mary, and through Christ Himself.

[happybozy101768]

Also, how about different events and miracles that happened through the Virgin Mary and through Christ? Friends, I tell you, she does not deceive us nor does the Church. She LEADS us to Christ...not to herself. If everything was an act of deception, then it would come from Satan himself. I can say that he most certainly NOT ever want to lead us to Christ Jesus Who is our mediator. Mary is not the one to give credit to herself. We are to recognize her as the Mother of God and rightfully so.

[happybozy101768]

I've added this series to my playlist for EWTN and other Christian shows. HOWEVER, I just seen the ending, so far, and it seems to favor Dr. James White's view about the Virgin Mary. The thing is that he's missing alot of concepts and misunderstanding the whole meaning.

There are two Words of God. Firstly, the Written Word of God which is the Bible and, secondly, the Inspired Word of God which are messages given to us by the prophets, the saints, and those chosen by God.

[shanana000]

@soterioss8787 White is on the internet stating how he feels about his sister...and he doesn't disown patty..she is mentally ill, that's all and is a church hopper..hops from one kind of church do another...just wait, she'll be like Gerry Matatics and change her faith one more time....and you RC's love to accuse anyone that doesn't agree with you as bigots or haters..is that all the defense you guys have? I guess if you don't have truth on your side..that's what you resort too.

[shanana000]

@soterioss8787 James White doesn't hate RC's, and he doesn't hate his sister either.  you obviously hate him and Luther...who taught you to do that? The RCC did.

[CarmineFragione]

JOHN 20:21-23 Jesus sent the Church in EQUAL power to Jesus with the Holy Spirit to use all things of the Gospel to bring sinners to Christ, and that the Church is then the Mediator on the Earth, Christ in Heaven. Anyone who goes to the Church to ask for their sins to be forgiven, it is given by Risen Christ, the power to the Church to forgive or retain anyone's sins and God would HONOR the CHURCH on EARTH, Mary is also the Church of Jesus Christ, We are One. John 20:21-23

[smartwarlord]

@soterioss8787

I'm not Christian, merely a student of the religion, its history both early and up to the present time and its impact on the human species' development. As I have no position on the matter, I am neither biased towards the Protestant or Catholic viewpoint.

Here is the verse I referenced:

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. - Luke 14:26

[smartwarlord]

@soterioss8787

I'm not Christian, merely a student of the religion, its history both early and up to the present time and its impact on the human species' development. As I have no position on the matter, I am neither biased towards the Protestant or Catholic viewpoint.

Here is the verse I referenced:

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. - Luke 14:26

[happybozy101768]

@smartwarlord No, no, no...the Scripture does not use the word "hate" in that Gospel. Jesus said, "Anyone who doesn't TURN AWAY from his father and mother and wife and children....cannot be my follower." Further, in the next verse (Lk 14:27), He says, "Anyone who doesn't take up his cross and follow me, cannot be my follower." What He speaks of is SACRIFICE and LOVE. When He told John, son of Zebedee, to follow Him, he left his fish nets and his father to follow Him.

[happybozy101768]

@smartwarlord Jesus, Who is a God of Love, would not encourage or teach us to hate our families, but to first love God and then each other as He loves us. He calls us to sacrifice and deny our very selves and all that is materialistic and follow Him more perfectly. Materialism is like a barrier between us and God. They are more like idols. He is our light. Through Him, we can gain greater love and mercy.

[smartwarlord]

@soterioss8787

Actually a Christian is supposed to condemn and hate their brothers/sisters/parents if they are not good pious Christians.

Read what Jesus "said".

[happybozy101768]

@smartwarlord Actually, there's nowhere, in Scripture, that Jesus said to "hate" their brothers/sisters/parents in order to follow Him, but...to TURN AWAY. He also said, in the next verse, that one had to deny himself and take his cross daily if he were to become His follower. What Jesus was saying is that one would have to turn away from all to follow Him. Look at John and, I believe, James...the sons of Zebedee. Jesus called them and they left all. Nothing about hate, though.

[smartwarlord]

@soterioss8787

Actually his sister only converted a couple of years ago. This debate is over 20 years old... He did not disown her, apparently they simply weren't close before she converted, and when she did - she opted to completely remove herself from his life.

She, not he - ended it.

[TheJourney000]

Not.

[MsNairobi]

I look forward to a debate where the protestants actually examine the apparations of Mary!! If you have so much faith, why fear to read about the aparations of the Blessed mother, in so many instances in the world today, one cannot just close their mind and say, these are satanic things without even honestly examining them, like a true christian. As a lover of Jesus , which we all are, why not read about the apparations of his beloved mother with an open mind, a christian mind Dr White?????

[reubenravidass]

@MsNairobi i have read the tree shepard children of fatima. u see the way mary potray herself she is making herself a goddess example, if my immaculate heart will triumph all russia will be converted. if u wear the scheplure at the hour of death I MARY WILL HELP U. my question is who is she to help and who is she to be glorified???? if my people will say the ROSARY faithfullly i will appease my son from his anger at the hour of death. this sounds strange like the goddess KALI.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Basically, Mary was set aside, from other people, to be the pure woman that's to be the mother of Jesus. That is why she was so special and unique. Read the Gospel of Luke. The archangel Gabriel...just to know that she was to be the mother of God, Whom He served from the beginning!

Mary was not eternal. She was human, but had a special role. However, though she was not at all God, she and Jesus share that special relationship as family. Joseph was a foster father who protected.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Mary receives her glory through Jesus. She can help us to become closer to Jesus. Make no mistake, she is not drawing all the attention to herself. She wants us to be closer to Jesus. Jesus appointed her to be our mother, too, as He had appointed to John, our brother.

There have been many miracles, but one has to have faith which is the core of Christ's teaching.

Faith without works is dead, but works without faith has no fruit and can be hypocritical.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 all through the PAPACY the popes have lifted the name mary above jesus. example when mary appared in fatima she said to the three shepard children to pray the rosary so thru that mary can appease her son from anger that is not what scripture teaches. hebrews 4:16 let us come bodly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need. she draws all the attention to her self this is not the mary of the bible.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass There are alot of things that the Bible doesn't really talk about. There are two Words that come from God: 1) Written (Bible) and 2) Inspired (through the prophets and the Church). Which came first - the Bible or the Church? The Church came first and the Bible came some 500 years later. Jesus gave the authority to His apostles to heal, speak God's word, cast out demons, baptize, give the body and blood of Christ to the community, and so forth.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Yes, the popes have lifted the name of Mary, but for out of veneration and honor, not for worship. The Scripture doesn't tell about alot of God's people...St. Joan of Arc, St. Bernadette, St. Frances of Assisi (who had lived to the extreme examples of Christ and had stigmatas), and other saints. Well, John even said that if every event of Jesus were recorded, the world wouldn't contain the books! So, is the same with today's events and God's people.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass The Bible is indeed the very Written Word of God, inspired into His chosen people to write it, and teaches us the history of mankind and his relationship with God, about the Jews, about prophecies, praises and songs to God, His laws for others to live by, the Good News, the letters on how to follow Christ and live as He wants us to live, the beginnings of the Church, and Christ's revelation to John.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass The Bible also didn't tell Jesus' life from His age of 12 until He was 30, either. He lived a private life as did Mary and Joseph. Why does Mary encourage us to pray the rosary? For drawing attention to herself? No. The rosary is primarily from the very words of Scripture which is about Jesus. First, the Lord's Prayer is prayed 6 times and then 53 Hail Marys. First part of the Hail Mary prayer is from the words of Gabriel the archangel. (Cont)

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass "Hail full of grace! The Lord is with you!" Think..Gabriel was sent down to give Mary the message, but to think that the Lord, whom he's always loved, worshipped, praised, etc. from the very beginning of creation before mankind existed...now comes to human form, by His Will, to a woman he had set aside for His work of redemption! By Mary's "fiat" - willingness to accept God's call for her to be His mother and through her humility, Jesus came into the world, as man, to save all.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass "Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb!" The very words of her elder cousin Elizabeth were sounded with joy and she spoke in Spirit. She acknowledged her as being obedient and receptive to God's Will, even though she would go through all hardships (explaining to Joseph how she was to conceive, fear of being stoned because of accusations of adultery, and so forth). She had faith and believed all would happen. She trusted God and loved Him.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Then, the Church recognized her in the final part of the prayer: "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death". The first part was all for Jesus...announcing the message of His coming, praising Jesus in Mary's womb and honoring Mary for believing that the Word of God would come true. In the second part, we acknowledge Mary's role as being the Mother of God and ask her to pray for us to God. See...it doesn't really draw attention to her.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Also, if I was very ill or if my friend was dying, would it be wrong if I asked you to pray for me or my friend? It's the same thing when we pray to Mary and the saints and ask them to pray for us. We have people here to pray for us and also those who have been through this life and made it where they are in union with God. Oh...and through the rosary, we meditate on the lives of Jesus and Mary, but mostly on Jesus. It's a deep prayer that helps us to focus and to love Him.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Basically, credit is due where credit is due. Jesus gave us His mother, through our brother John. When you are in pain or seek help, security, advice, and so forth? You've gone to your mother, right? Well, most people do. She is our Heavenly Mother who prays for us to her Son always! Yes, we go directly to Jesus and pray, but we also have others to intercede for us as well! "Where two or more are present, there am I in their midst". The main focus is on Jesus.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Also, why would Jesus have us to be close to His mother and honor her? He's been in apparitions to others about this matter. Ok...let's say that you are going to see the King. Do you only go directly to the King or do you also acknowledge and have communication with his friends, servants, family, and so forth? Don't you admire all the glory and environment in his kingdom? If you are to love God and honor Him, one is to honor and love EVERYTHING and EVERYONE that's close to Him.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 the honour u want to give his friends, mother or servant is to give the lord jesus because jesus said if u love me keep my commandments that is true honour. the book of isaiah says my glory i give no other or my praises to graven images. in matthew 11 jesus said come to me all who are weary and heavy laden and i will give u rest not mary,anthony jude or paul.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass If I asked for you to pray for me and maybe help me with a struggle in temptation that you've overcome yourself, is that wrong? Your prayers would go to God and you've overcome the temptations through the light of Christ! We're called to help each other and to serve God. Those who are in heaven with God wants to see us make it there as we all want to see each other make it to eternal happiness, too!

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Furthermore, the apparitions at Fatima, Lourdes, Guadelupe, and so forth...they are of divine intervention that helps us to know of God's mercy and love and to warn us to repent and turn from our ways. Some believe that we are being misled in believing these apparitions, but they have been investigated from the Church and how are they dangerous when they bring forth the message from God...that helps bring us closer to God? They are not from Satan who tries to lead us away!

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 remember paul warns us that satan can transform into an angel of light to deceive the human race. the message from fatima bring us away from jesus to a strange mary. ( "I want you to come here on the 13th of next month, to continue to pray the Rosary every day in honour of Our Lady of the Rosary, in order to obtain peace for the world and the end of the war, because only she can help you.)

13 July 1917) that is a quotation of fatima. demonic doctrine to me.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass That's true, but what really is the rosary comprised of and Who is it really for? It's a prayer that is comprised with 6 Our Fathers and 150 Hail Marys...which are addressed to Our Lady, BUT...they are about and dedicated to JESUS. The angel Gabriel...he addressed Mary with love because the very Lord, Whom he sang and gave praises to throughout eternity, has designed and willed to come in human form to Mary whom He chosen and set aside for His means.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 in mark 3: 31-35.31 says Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.” Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass So...what joy he had, and the privilege, to come to her who was destined to have Christ our Lord. So, what does He say in Scripture? "Hail full of grace! The LORD is with you!" Next is with her cousin Elizabeth, who was filled with the Holy Spirit and cried out, "Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb" Who we know, of course, is Jesus! Mary was perfect and set aside to be immaculate...this way she could receive Christ in her womb and her life.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 yes she allowed the eternal word to become the son in a human body that is why she is blessed. just like in matthew 5 the beatitudes has some ten blessing if they obey and follow that teaching example. blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. the prophet daniel is the most beloved of God, abraham is a friend of God that is a title given at that very moment to clarify a point it doesn't mean that other prophets are enemies. 

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I'm not saying that any of God's prophets are enemies. Each are loved and blessed by God and are acknowledged by all. What is more unique about Mary is that she was set aside to be immaculate. 2 Sam. 6:7 - the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass 1 Chron. 13:9-10 - this is another account of Uzzah and the Ark. For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For Protestants to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible. Rom. 3:23 - "all have sinned" also refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 u are putting the teaching of the papacy on the ark of the covenant. the ark resemble the presence of the almighty God it has nothing to do with mary. no where in scriptures teaches mary was without sin that is the teaching of the papacy. in the ark has three things aaron rod that budded, manna and the tablet of stone. the mercy seat is where the high priest place the blood and the cherubim is put on the ark for the worship of God.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Yes, it's true...I go alot by the teaching of the Church. HOWEVER, the Church teaches the root of Scripture and by the very Word of God. It is through revelation that Mary is without sin. Well, the teaching and revelation goes back since the teachings of the apostles. The successor of St. Peter teaches what he taught because it is through the words of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Do you believe in the bread and wine being blessed and transformed into His body and blood?

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass The Church teaches God's Word. The Church teaches Christian doctrine. A Church, that God dwells in...if it doesn't teach according to the revelations of God and teachings, the question would then be...how long will God be with that Church and how long will it stand? The Catholic Church, the universal Church, has been around for 2 milleniums! I'm not saying that no other Church teaches the Word of God. I don't say that at all. However, I do say that the Church is without error.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I will say that there have been false leaders of the universal Church, but they fell and are no longer with the Church. However, the Church still stands today and is strong in faith.

I've seen other Christian religions and they are very good in their teachings...and they are very similar in what the Catholic Church teaches. So, it's not false doctrine. However, the Catholic Church has honored and asked intercession from Mary and the saints for many centuries and more.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass If it was false to do so, I believe that the Church will not stand. What they believe, love, honor, praise, glorify, and so forth...most importantly and only in...GOD. We recognize that the saints were like we are now, except that they had a greater love, obedience, determination, and will to serve God and men through heroic deeds and in life. It's how one totally surrenders their life to Christ. They overcame their weaknesses and are there for us. They are friends, NOT God.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 the roman catholic church begin diverting from the truth after 590ad because there were no popes prior to that. Penance,prayer to saints and mary, the papacy, purgotary doctrine came after 590ad according to the greastest church historian philip schaff . jesus calls us to a intimate walk with him and the triune God head, he wants us for himself that is why scriptures tells us to build that relationship with the triune God head.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass So, by no means do we ever worship Mary, Joseph, or any other saints.

It has been revealed that Mary was without sin because she was kept aside to be the Mother of Christ. Ok...when we sin, we separate ourselves from God. Yes, God calls sinners to repentance and to turn away from their past lives. Jesus has never been born from anyone else except in the womb of Mary who was pure.

Through God, ALL things are possible. I can't say that some things just can't happen. God Wills.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 the roman catholics do worship mary on the feast of fatima the priests all over the world carry the statute of fatima in procession. no where in scripture does it states that mary was without sin that is the teaching of the papacy. she was given the privelage and grace to bear the lords christ just another willing vessel. if she was sinless she don't need to pray after giving birth to jesus or even worship God.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I wanted to bring to response of what you said before: "the roman catholics do worship mary on the feast of fatima the priests all over the world carry the statute of fatima in procession". You see, there's a big difference in honoring and veneration to one who has been great in life, their role and position, their courage, and so forth versus worshipping. We NEVER, NEVER worship Mary, nor the saints, nor the angels which is often misunderstood by many.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I just wanted to clarify that. Ok...people have pictures of John F. Kennedy, of Jesus, of their family, and so forth...there is nothing wrong with that because it is a representation of them. People remember them and honor them. They love them. If a person's mother died and that person held her picture close to his chest, kissed the picture, and so forth, is that really wrong? They think of their mother and they love her, but they don't think of the photo as their mother.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass It's true. Mary holds a high position in the Universal Church, but she also has been honored throughout history and in the Bible. Look at St. Elizabeth when Mary was just learning of her role! What did she say? "Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb...but who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" and so forth. I'm just saying that we never have worshipped Mary, but we do ask for her to pray for us and honor her.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 so the title blessed is used for mary so what??? have u not read the beatitudes it says blessed are those who hunger and thrist for righteoness for they shall be filled and so forth. ya elizabeth greeted mary like that because the unseen God of the universe for the 1st time in ion of ions of time is coming to his creation in a human body even the heaveanly hosts came to worship jesus probably the entire heavens was desserted to see jesus the KING

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Mary does pray and give worship to God because, though she is the mother of God and pure from sin, she is God's perfect creature...His masterpiece and that is one reason why she was set aside for Christ as they both have a role in our salvation. It's not to mention that she is some Goddess. She never claimed to be in her apparitions. She wants us to recognize her and love her for what she is...Mother of God and given to be our mother, too! Also, repent to Christ was her message.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 excuse me i keep quotating u from fatima's apparations she says if my immaculate heart will triumph all russian will be converted because only i (MARY) can help u. she says that only she can appease the anger of her son that is a words of a goddess not mary of the bible. hebrews 4:16 says let us come bodly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Also, the angels were created as pure spirits of God. They are in Heaven with God. So, how is it that they are not sinless? After we live our life in this world and are in union with Him, we will be perfect, too! We will be cleansed and made white if we believe and love God and follow His Will. In Heaven, there is no sin, no sickness, no sadness...none of that! The only angels that have sinned against God were the fallen and that's why they were cast out of Heaven.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 what i was saying that angels has a tendency to sin or obey God. But not so with God he has no tendency to sin he has no free will in this sense because he his righteous and holy all thru eternity. The reason why we are made perfect in heaven is because of the blood of the LAMB and because of jesus glory.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I'm sure you can agree with me on that. All souls and spirits are perfected when in union with God in Heaven.

Though we believe that Mary is without sin, it doesn't mean that she can't pray to God or worship Him. She is special to us, but still a creature of God. She was never eternal as God is, but she was set aside for God's plan of our salvation. Christ never rebuked her or corrected her for sinning or anything. Though, Christ came for the sinners, but through her.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 ya God never corrected ENOCH,NOAH,ELISHA ,DANIEL DOES IT MEAN THAT THEY WERE SINLESS??? WHEN SCRIPTURE SAYS ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLED SORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD INCLUDING MARY. WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS is 100%HOLINESS AND 100% RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS JESUS ALONE. scripture says that jesus was without sins.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 it is ridiculous to say mary is withour sin because scripture say if we say we have not sin we are a liar. if mary was without sin than she doesn't need to confess her trespass or sin to God or even pray or offer worship, no human being or angels is 100% sinless only jesus is holy100% and righteous 100% because he was the second person of the Godhead. if ur sinless by ur reasoning than ur that greastest sinner.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I can't say that I'm sinless because I know that I have come into the world stained with original sin. Through baptism, I receive sanctifying grace, but...I can still choose to listen or disobey God. I am weak. Mary...she's different. She was not born in sin. Her parents were, but she wasn't.

Well, many didn't believe that Jesus was God because he came from a human mother and foster father of Joseph. Through God, all things are possible!

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 no where in scriptures says that mary was sinless that is the teaching of the papacy. i don't care if many people don't believe that jesus is God i only care what the scriptures says. 1john 1 says in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. in isisah 9:6 says he shall be called mighty God, everlasting father, prince of peace. in titus 2:13 says the great God and saviour jesus christ. for me scripture is everthing not what the popes teach.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass It has been one of the greatest mysteries....the Holy Trinity, the virginal birth of Christ, the Immaculate Conception, and so forth.

Though Mary is believed to be sinless, though a human creature of God, it would be her pride, not humility, if she didn't praise and worship God. She was a perfect humble creature with no pride. Pride is a sin, so if she didn't pray or worship God, though being sinless, she'd sin through pride. That would be less logical then.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Rom. 3:23 - Some Protestants use this verse "all have sinned" in an attempt to prove that Mary was also with sin. But "all have sinned " only means that all are subject to original sin. Mary was spared from original sin by God, not herself. The popular analogy is God let us fall in the mud puddle, and cleaned us up afterward through baptism. In Mary's case, God did not let her enter the mud puddle.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass You see, Mary is most blessed among women. It is written "Blessed are you among women". There are things in God's Word that are revealed more deeper in the meaning.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I could go on and on to describe the actual meaning...the meaning that is sadly and widely misunderstood. The rest of the prayer is addressed to her to do what? First, we recognize her role in Jesus life...Holy Mary, Mother of God...for that is what she is. "Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death"...we address to her, but we ask her to help and join in praying to God for us...for our peace.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass It's not a demonic doctrine and all of this did happen. SATAN would NEVER try to fool us in order to lead us to Christ! That would not make any logical sense. Mary was sending us the message to lead us to Christ and only to Christ where we turn back from our sins and repent....the same as what John the Baptist did. Satan would never do that or...how can he stand or succeed to turn us away from God?

[happybozy101768]

@happybozy101768 The rest of the prayers of the rosary are the doxology which is praises to the Holy Trinity..."Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be...world without end. Amen" and then a prayer to Jesus that was given to the children from the angel at Fatima..."Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are most in need of Your mercy. Amen".

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 ya tell that to a mormon believer they believe that their prophet joseph smith had a encounter with god. they believe in jesus they pray in jesus name but it is another jesus another gospel which paul warns in galatian 1. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s divine curse!

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I have known of some mormons and they are very pleasant people. Although, I do say that I did get confused in their teachings as it didn't all go with what I was taught about Scripture. The thing is...did Joseph Smith actually teach with the teachings of the true Church and with God's Word? Either way, we shouldn't judge and, yes, we should be careful on what all is said. Many things are investigated in the Catholic Church to see to that there's no false prophets or teachings.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass There are probably other churches that investigate things, too. I just know that anytime there is an apparition or miracle, the Church goes through careful investigation to make sure that it's all legit and goes with according the Will of God and that it is HIS message...with all that would lead all to HIM and HIM ALONE. So, prayers, honor, and such are given to Mary, saints, and angels, but never worship or the same praises as we give only to God.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass And...why is it honor of Our Lady of the Rosary that the children and the world to pray the Rosary? Because it's also and especially honor to her Son for Whom the Rosary is about and is focused on...JESUS. We honor Jesus and we also honor His mother. Also, to set a date to meet the Virgin Mary is to be faithful that they will show so that they can be instructed to help bring the world closer to her Son through her message which was also a message from God.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 that is not what the scriptures teaches the bible says in hebrews.hebrews 7: 24 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for us. to honour the son means to honour the father john 5. john 16:24 until now u have ask nothing in my name ask and your joy will be complete. only the holy spirit can bring us closer to jesus. 1 corinthians 12: 3 and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass That's not all true. We can all bring each other closer to Jesus, but, yes...all is done through the Holy Spirit and in Jesus' Name. Still, is it up to us to say that God can't choose you, me, Mary, pastor, saints, or whoever to bring out God's message which could help bring redemption through repentence and other acts of love to God for our salvation and His Glory?

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 all thru church history from the first century to 590 ad all the apostolic fathers prayed to God the father in the name of Jesus thru the holy spirit. in acts 12:5 So Peter was kept in prison, but the church was earnestly praying to God for him. in ephesians 5:19-20 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs giving thanks always for all things to God the father in the name of jesus.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass St. Francis of Assisi starts with a peace prayer to God, "Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace...". God can choose anyone whom He pleases and He can set aside, for His purposes for all good, whoever and whatever He wants. So, who are we to say..."That can't be done!" or "That isn't true...that isn't so!"?

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 i don't care what assisi,u and the popes believe but i care what the scriptures teaches. mary in all her apparation has exalted her self she ask to build a church on her honour and a church was built in fatima. the church of our lady of the rosary. i am no fool that is a goddess in disguise of MARY of the bible. maybe it is the goddess KALI.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass No! This is so not so. Whenever Mary asks us to do something, it is in reverrence to Christ and Christ alone, not solely for herself. Mary is no goddess. She even asked the children and others to not worship or just praise her for her works as she can't do anything unless it's through Jesus. That is not a woman to look only after her own glory. She's not like that. She's only wants and prays for our salvation and peace with her Son, not for us to worship her.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 i have read the fatima,lourdes and guardualupe appariations evertime she appears she bring glory to herself. i already told u that she said in fatima only she can help save the world, plus she said is my immaculate heart will triumph all russia will be converted that sounds like a goddess to me. it totaly violate scripture for it says in isaiah my glory i give no other no my praise to graven images.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Lucia asked Mary to take them to heaven and was reassured in this way: "I will take Jacinta and Francisco shortly; but you will stay here for some time to come. Jesus wants to use you to make Me known and loved. He wishes to establish the devotion to My Immaculate Heart throughout the world. I promise salvation to whoever embraces it; these souls will be dear to God, like flowers put by Me to adorn his throne."

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass This is what Jesus wants. He invites us all to be family with Him, Father, Holy Spirit, and His mother. It doesn't mean that she is God or anything like that. Devoted, loved, honored, but never was there in her messages to be worshipped. It has been said that she wants to lead us closer to her Son and, yes, through her Immaculate Heart. She cares and loves all her children in this world that was given to her by Christ.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Lucia was sad at the first part of this reply, saying: "Am I to stay here alone?" Mary replied: "No, my daughter. Are you suffering a great deal? Don't lose heart. I will never forsake you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will LEAD YOU TO GOD." (At Lourdes) "Pray for sinners." "Penance! Penance! Penance!" Why would the devil ask us to pray for sinners? Why would he talk about penance...what Jesus and St. John the Baptist always preached?

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass (At Guadelupe) "Am I not here, who am your Mother?

Are you not under my shadow and protection?

Am I not the fountain of your joy?"

Yes, in some words, she makes herself known, but...isn't that through her Son? Through her Son's wishes? What did Jesus tell John from the cross? "Behold your mother". John is our brother. Jesus made all of us her children. The apostles revered her as mother, too.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass One other source where she spoke to Juan Diego at Guadelupe:"I am the Virgin Mary, Mother of the one true God, of Him who gives life.

He is Lord and Creator of heaven and of earth.

I desire that there be built a temple at this place where I want to manifest Him, make him known,

give Him to all people through my love, my compassion, my help, and my protection..." (cont.)

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Look at the Transfiguration of Jesus. He communicated with Moses and Elijah. God sent an archangel Gabriel to announce to Mary and Zechariah of the 2 births of John and Jesus. He sent angels to the shepherds to give them the Good News. Who's to say that the children at Fatima or St. Bernadette can't possibly have a vision of Mary, the Mother of God, to give them the message to spread to the world for our salvation?

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 it is true that moses and elijah talked to jesus what they talk is a mystery however jesus never prayed to them or neither did he ask their intercession. we know from scriptures that jesus always prayed to his father whether for his friend lazarus at john 11 or for his diciples in john 17. when the apostles said teach us how to pray like u he said OUR father in heaven hallowed be your name and following. 

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass You know...there's alot of teachings in Scripture that are to be understood in different ways. I'm not saying that I'm totally right in all. I'm no scholar. Apostles received the authority and teachings, through Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and passed it down to other successors.

Jesus says, "Where two or more are present, there am I in their midst". We pray and worship as a Church. All the angels and saints also pray with us in Heaven. I strongly believe this.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 The reason scripture ask us to pray to him alone in 1 timothy 2:4-5 is because he wants that relationship because of this he told moses to erected the tabernacle in the wildderness so that he can dwell in their midst.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass So...that's my point. The Church prayed for Peter. That's what we ask Mary and the saints is to pray for us. They are ever so close to God. I can ask you to pray for me. It's all the same. We communicate to God. However, we don't worship Mary, angels, nor saints. Worship is given to God alone. This is where many misunderstand and say that we worship Mary and the saints as this is far from the truth.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 what point??? the whole church in the first century prayed to God alone in acts 12, yes the saints are close to God and so are we thru his blood. do u even pay attention to what i say, it states in hebrews 4:16 LET US COME BODLY TO THE THRONE OF GRACE THAT WE MAY OBTAIN MERCY AND FIND GRACE TO HELP IN TIME OF NEED. we don't need the saints or mary to pray for us understand i keep repeating the same thing over and over again with scripture as evidence.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I understand where you are trying to get at. However, we all lead each other to Christ, but...we are weak. I just believe that there's more to it. Jesus died for us, I believe this with my heart. However, Mary and the saints are our support, our friends...we also support each other. The Church leads us. We can't strive on our own. We love Jesus. To love and honor Him is to love and honor all with Him. We are all one faith in God, but we are there for each other.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Again, remember...for anything to be demonic...doctrine, messages, visions, or anything...they need to lead us AWAY from Christ, not CLOSER TO Christ.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 i gave u the quotation . the women of the rosary said if u pray the rosary daily i would save the world because only i could save it from the anger of my son. that is leading away us from christ. when the bible says coming bodly to the throne by the blood of the lamb. hebrews 10:19 and hebrews 4:16. 1 timothy 2 :4-5. for there is one God and one mediator between God and man the man christ jesus.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass No. Because, even though we address the rosary (in the Hail Mary prayers) to Mary, we are also addressing to God and praying to God through this means of prayer. The rosary is a set of prayers that is to LEAD us to God. Mary also said that she couldn't do anything unless if it was through her Son. That's not leading us away from Jesus. She wants to lead us TO Jesus. Ok...say if you have a friend who is angry with you. Wouldn't you go through a relative or friend to calm him?

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 the more u spend time with a person u become like the person that is why all thru scriptures it says to pray to God the father in jesus name. acts 4:13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus. we don't need mary ,anne, anthony or other human to make intercession for us.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 when i read about the 3 shepard children it states mary said if my immaculate heart will heart will triumph all russia will be converted. that sounds like a goddess like KALI. in 1 john1:9 if we confess our sins he is faithfull and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. i don't need mary ,anthony or anne.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass When your friend's relative says, "I can help restore your friendship if I can calm the anger of my son/brother....only if you can do a few things (which would be for a good and make things easier for the person to calm your friend)", is it drawing attention to that person? I think not! Prayers bring us closer to God and Mary is suggesting we pray, with faith, and she would intervene with her Son on our behalf. It's not about her. It's about us and our relationship with Christ.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 ur are not following the mind of christ. i don't need anyone to calm the son on my behalf because it is written in hebrews 4:16 let us come bodly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace in time of need. hebrew 10:19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 1 timothy 2:5 for there is 1 God and 1 mediator between God and man the man christ jesus.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Mary and Jesus have that close relationship between them...mother and Son. Mary did participate in taking part in human salvation as said in Scripture. She was the chosen one set aside by God. She had to be pure and immaculate...unstained from sin. This has been taught for many, many centuries since the beginning of the Church. Also, the miracles that have happened and...the spring and the chapel, that was built at that site of the springs, at Lourdes....

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 jesus called mary women in john 2 the same word jesus used to a prostitute in john 8. miracles also happen in hinduism, and all world religion. that is what jesus warns in scriptures.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I have no authority to say that the miracles are untrue and not by God as it was investigated by the Church where authorities investigated very thoroughly and carefully. That Church and the springs, from 1858, still exists today and is overcrowded with people with faith, hope, and love. That spring still performs miracle through God and people's faith. The visions at Fatima and Lourdes...who am I to say that it didn't happen or it's not true? I would be saying God can't do it!

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass I'm sure that there are different verses in Scripture that some may counter with, but I can also come up with verses that speak on Mary's position, the saints, and all coming from God. It's how one reads and understands Scripture and prays to the Holy Spirit for the light of understanding and faith.

I just know these things have happened in history. Same with Joan of Arc. I can't be one to say that all these messages came from the devil because that's wrong! He doesn't love!

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 there are no scriptues that support roman catholic doctrine. example in 1 timothy 2:4-5 for there is one God and one mediator between god and man the man christ jesus. mary in scriptures is given a honourable role to bear the lord's christ iam sure God will bless her. but she is not to be prayed or worship in today's catholic church the statue of mary of fatima is carried in procession that is idol worship & demonic.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass The messages are message from God and about love. The devil wants to lead us away from God. The apparitions were sending messages that would LEAD us to Christ! So, that point, about the devil trying to trick us, would be contrary and illogical.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 mary apparitions was all about her glorification just like the mormon who believe in jesus but another jesus which paul warns. they say that all who believe in their teaching will become a God someday. that is the teaching paul warns in galatian 1 another jesus and another gospel.

[reubenravidass]

@happybozy101768 in luke somebody shouted from the crowd and said blessed is the women who bore u and the breast which nursed u but jesus said more than that blessed is he who hear the word of God and obey it. jesus pointed the glory back to his father not mary jude, anthony anne or mother teresa.

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass Nevertheless, Peter, Mary, John, Mother Theresa, and so forth still have their honor due for being obedient and faithful to the Lord and for their works they've done by trusting in the Lord and for their humility. It's honor, not worship. We can still go to Mary, Peter, St. Terese of Liseux, and so forth...for intercession and some aid, but, in the end, all praise and glory goes to God Who is the Source of all good!

[happybozy101768]

@reubenravidass When Mary came to the children at Fatima, she was giving them a message to tell the world to pray without ceasing. She was directing our attention and love for her Son, not to herself. When we honor and love Jesus, we honor and love His mother, too! Jesus gave His mother to John...who is our brother. Mary also became our mother...our heavenly mother. Angels, saints...they all pray for us and want us to be united with God. Their prayers help being that they are in union with God.

[zipper778]

@MsNairobi I'm not so sure that Dr. White has had a debate specifically about the apparations of Mary in particular, but he has dealt with the topic of Sola Scriptura. He also glanced on sola scriptura during this debate to show that it is truly not only a Biblical doctrine, but also a historical doctrine of the Christian church as well. Check out his Beggars All blog and also Alpha and Omega Ministries for more details on those topics.

[Suge212]

@MsNairobi I want to make clear that I don't hate Catholics. I do however REJECT the institution called the Catholic Church. Among all its teachings that are contrary to scripture, what does it for me are the inquisitions. So let me ask you a question. If the Nazi party re-established itself as a political and or spiritual power, swastikas and all, how would that make you feel? Please note that what the Nazi party did PALES in comparison to that of the RCC during the inquisitions.

[Suge212]

@MsNairobi Now ask yourself this question. Does Jesus want me to be part of an organization who was responsible for the unimaginable torture and death of an estimated 200-500 million Christians? I guess time really does heal all wounds. Not that damn much time either. Heck maybe in 50 years the Nazi's will make a come back. Is that such an unreasonable thought? They only killed about 6 million people after all. As long as they say they are sorry right? GET OUT OF THAT CHURCH and READ A BIBLE!

[Suge212]

@MsNairobi Take the Westboro Baptist Church for example. It doesn't take long to realize that they are BAD NEWS. Yet, what they preach doesn't even come close to what the RCC did and really, what has changed with the RCC since the inquisitions? NOTHING. They might not be on a rampage killing spree anymore but they still view everyone else as heretics. The same snake venom doctrines and elaborate rituals and pagan sun symbolism are all still there and you all don't even blink! VERY perplexing.

[Suge212]

@MsNairobi However I do understand. I was a Roman Catholic for 25 years. Born and raised. Went to Catholic school, did all the communions and reconciliations and conformations and ash Wednesdays etc. I even knew about the inquisitions, which didn't even PHASE me. I have come to realize that it was because I didn't know Jesus! My eyes were blind to the truth. Since I got saved just a few years ago, the LORD has opened my eyes! Now I can see! Could the RCC be the woman that rides the beast?

[happybozy101768]

@MsNairobi I so agree with you! I was trying to debate with someone about the Scripture warning us about such apparitions and messages can be tricks of the devil and that Mary is drawing glory to herself. I debated that the devil would never want to lead us to Christ nor ask us to repent of our sins as our Blessed Lady did. Yes, she deserves some of our praises and honor because of who she is, but, I concluded, we never worship anyone but God alone.

[happybozy101768]

@MsNairobi I was trying to point out that there's a big difference between honoring and veneration versus worship. I spoke where Mary had said to the children and to other people that she can't do these things unless if it were through her Son, but she can intercede on our behalf for our salvation. What closer relationship than between a mother and her son? Even with our friends, the saints who have struggled in this world and overcome, can help us and pray for us.

[happybozy101768]

@MsNairobi As Jesus said, "Where two or more are present, there am I in their midst". We have a community of believers in the world and a community of the faithful in the Heavenly Kingdom. I raised a point that what would be wrong if I asked a friend of mine to pray for me for guidance, strength, health, and so forth. There is nothing in the Bible that goes against that, but for it!

So, again, I fully agree with you and God bless you! :)

[MJOLNIRVII]

"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6)

Jesus is the WAY and the ONLY way to salvation.

"Nor is there salvation in any other [Jesus], for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

No one but Jesus can save and give eternal life. NO ONE ELSE.

[newbirth35]

Wow...this is an old one. Dr. White looks so young!

[Itsfaith33]

Good debate. The apparitions mean nothing. Satan is called the deciever for a reason. Jesus salvation is not believed on because of an apparition or an image, but through revelation, of him being our saviour from sin, and repentance. Jesus already came and paid for sin. Thats all I need to believe, for salvation in him. Not that some image of mary somehow "proves"that Mary is co redemptrix. Thats the wrong path. Salvation is of the heart and will, not seeing images to believe in Mary.

[MsNairobi]

@Itsfaith33 have an open mind and read about what is happening in the world today. Kibeho in relation to the blessed mother, the mother of God ( The rwandan genocides prophecy) , read about benadette souberous and lourdes. Read about the miraculous happenings in lourdes. Why dont you even visit lourdes in France, as an open minded christian. I am a scientist, and I have read about lourdes, and there is no explanation for those miraculous healings, only devine intervention!!!!!

[MsNairobi]

@Itsfaith33 have an open mind and read about what is happening in the world today. Kibeho in relation to the blessed mother, the mother of God ( The rwandan genocides prophecy) , read about benadette souberous and lourdes. Read about the miraculous happenings in lourdes. Why dont you even visit lourdes in France, as an open minded christian. I am a scientist, and I have read about lourdes, and there is no explanation for those miraculous healings, only divine intervention!!!!!

[Itsfaith33]

@MsNairobi I already believe in Jesus Christ. Why do I need to believe in Mary? The bible doesn't say that I need to. Miracles prove nothing, except for a supernatural source. there are many different supernatural sources. No, there needs to be biblical harmony as well. if the antichrist can do a miracle, and people will believe in him, what good is a miracle? God has no mother. Jesus was human on this earth as well as divine it was the human part of him not the divine she was mother to

[happybozy101768]

@Itsfaith33 I'm sorry for such a late reply. I read your comment here and would like to clarify a couple of things if I may.

First, in the Bible, it does state that Jesus, Who is God, has a mother not just in the Gospels, but also in prophetic writings, too.

Nobody worships Mary. This is so often misunderstood. There's a difference between having reverence and worship. We worship God alone, but we can have honor and reverence to Mary, angels, and saints.

[MsNairobi]

Dr. White, please vst Lourdes, then explain Sola Scriptura......and Mary..then debate

[patrckhh20]

Can you upload the other debates they did?

[smartwarlord]

@patrckhh20

I don't have them. sorry.

[spoozster]

He who is truly devoted to the Word of God and he who only whips it out to cherry-pick it during debates is clearly demonstrated, especially in this debate.

[nymphrenic]

At 1 minute to 1 minute 45 seconds: Answer to James White - Luke 2:35

[Onetruthrgv]

@nymphrenic how so?