im a high school pitcher who has only thrown the knuck for two years its a fantastic pitch and yes it is EXTREAMLY hard pitch to master because of how many different ways you can throw it
dont let these punks trashtalk yu or that kid
baseballs a game where u gotta respect talent no one gets that
As an aside two years later, this kid is no longer pitching, but not because of hurting his arm from any sort of breaking ball -- he just doesn't pitch or his team has other players who pitch better - I'm not the coach.
IMHO (and I throw knuckleballs without "pushing" the ball with my fingers), there wouldn't be the cast of major leaguers who "found" the knuckleball later in their careers if there was so much danger from pitching it. It's just a difficult pitch to master.
I never said that knuckleballs were harmless, only that it would be far worse to be throwing curveballs at age 11. I'll also argue that there are several different ways to throw knuckleballs -- after all, the "release" from the pitching hand is largely what determines the resulting spin (or lack thereof) of the pitched ball.
Some of those methods undoubtedly involve using the fingers to "push out" the ball,but who knows the danger of that - I don't.
Everyone's commenting on how good or bad the knuckleball is...what I'd like to know is what kind of frickin moron of a parent do you have to be to let your kid throw a knuckleball? Say goodbye to the kid ever having any type of baseball future once he's done growing. His fingers will practically be falling off. Way to go, jackass.
First off I never said you were the parent. If I said you were the parent, I would've said, you are a jackass. I was making a general statement. Secondly, there's a difference between anger and common sense, only one of which I was using. Thirdly, if you knew anything about baseball, you'd know that knuckleballs are absolute TERROR on fingers and hands, worse then the potential damage caused by curveballs.
@svenlars99 What? That may be the worst statement I've ever heard. If YOU knew anything about baseball, you'd know that knuckleballs are a very effortless pitch to throw.
Curveballs, however at a young age, if not thrown absolutely 100% correct, are VERY dangerous to a kid's arm. There have been minor leaguers who had to retire their dreams because they screwed up their arms at a young age.
Have YOU ever thrown a correct knuckler?
Go ahead and fight back, but you'll lose that argument, too.
That's why there are so many knuckleballers in the Majors? So if it's that effortless, why aren't there more major leaguers throwing it? There have got to be more that can throw it for strikes as well as throw it good on a consistent basis, right? Why aren't they? Hmm, how many did I face when I was younger? Yep, none.
I'm not exactly sure you know how to throw a knuckleball, but one could use simple common sense in determining that the finger positions needed for the knuckleball are bad for young hands. The fingers being pushed up into an unfamiliar position is good for them? The jolt from the release of the knuckleball, pushing the fingers out, isn't bad for the fingers? The best knuckleballers out there didn't learn to throw one until they were done growing.
Alright, I had a response to you, but i'm not going to say that.
Obviously, we are getting nowhere by arguing like this. We both have different opinions, and I need to respect that you can believe what you want to believe, and I the same.
We both share something in common. We both love baseball. So lets not fight over how to throw a pitch we probably learned to throw differently from each other.
I'm sorry for being rude and demeaning, and I hope you accept that, but are sorry too. :D
Besides, what have you proved to show that the knuckleball is an effortless pitch? How on earth can I lose an argument to someone that didn't provide one shred of evidence supporting their claim? That was a dumb statement, as well as the first thing you said..."That may be the worst statement I've ever heard". You didn't hear it, you read it. If you're going to argue with me, at least know how you're arguing. This is the internet, you don't hear anything. Well, maybe YOU do, who knows...
I looked all over the place. I checked databases, and other search engines, checked with the high-school pitching coach. ALL of them said that the Curveball is the most dangerous pitch in Baseball. I have a decent enough knuckleball, that I have used in games, and cna throw for strikes, to know that it does NOTHING to your fingers, and much less, the arm. I'm no master at it, I have not perfected it, but I know that it represents no danger to my arm and fingers.
Plus, to answer your question about why there aren't any big-league knuckleballers:
I live this game. I have studied it extensively. I know that players, I know the pitches, I know how to properly takecare of yourself on a diamond.
If you had been around baseball long enough, you should know that in order to have a knuckleball worthy of MLB, it can not move from the point you release it, to the time it hits the plate. You need catchers who can catch it,
"The jolt from the release...". What are you talking about? If you are able to properly release a ball, and your timing is correct, the ball's forward velocity and thrust makes it ten times easier to release it. Your fingers don't do all the work. Their positioning destroys the spin and movement, and as you release it, you push off to give it not only more velocity, but to prevent further spin. That is how you get the effect of a well-done knuckleball.
Finally, why do I win this argument? I've seen knuckleballers. My father was a knuckleballer. He relies on the knuckleball because he ended up messing up his elbow and arm in high school. Throwing a curve ball. He was headed to the draft. He could've been a big-leaguer. Phil Niekro, the best knuckleballer of all time said the reason he had success was because of the knuckler.
So, I believe I have stated my reasons enough. Now where is YOUR evidence about knuckleballs?
You still haven't shown me evidence proving that it doesn't hurt the fingers. And the "jolt" is at the point of release, the fingers are pushed outwards, "pushing the ball". Since you've never played baseball, I'll explain it to you. When you throw a ball, the ball rolls out of the hand, thus producing a spin on the ball. Since the point of the knuckleball is prevent this spin, the fingers are placed in such a way as to "push" the ball towards the place. The arm is moved in the same fashion
as a regular pitch, the only difference is the finger position as well as the hand position on the ball. Next, I never once said that the Curveball wasn't a stupid pitch for young kids to learn. In fact, I stated that it did cause damage, just not as much as knuckleballs. The simple fact that you cannot find any evidence proving that knuckleballs don't hurt the hand is simply because no self-respecting father is dumb enough to allow their child to throw the pitch, until he/she has matured.
Thirdly, don't assume I don't know anything about baseball. Tim Wakefield was an infielder that didn't learn to throw it until he was already in the minors. Do you honestly think he would still be pitching had he learned to throw it at a young age, and throw it consistently during games? Same with Phil Niekro? Phil Niekro learned when he was a kid, much like we all did, but didn't start throwing it until he was in high school(ie. done growing).
"I think me and Hoyt Wilhelm basically started when we were kids and threw it in high school. Most of the other knuckleballers picked it up later." Quote directly from Phil Niekro. Again, we all learned these pitches when we were young. Any self-respecting father would never let his kid throw anything other then a fastball and changeup until he's done growing, because every other pitch out there causes some type of stress on the hands.
This is dumb, knuckleballs are completely safe for kids to throw, and repeated curveballs can be extremely damaging. It's the snap down (or sideways) that puts stress on the elbow and wrist of a pitcher, and this can hurt a kids development. The knuckleball release is smooth, and the arm speed is less. It's probably safer to throw than repeated fastballs. Where did you hear knuckleballs damage kid's arms?
@bigVBdaddy Your COMPLETELY right. there are sooo many ways to throw a knuckleball that how can you assume he is sticking his nails in the seams ? maybe he doesnt put it on the seams soo it wont hurt anything. So im trying to figure out what kid of idiot it takes to build up stupidity such as svenlars99
HEY bigVBdaddy
im a high school pitcher who has only thrown the knuck for two years its a fantastic pitch and yes it is EXTREAMLY hard pitch to master because of how many different ways you can throw it
dont let these punks trashtalk yu or that kid
baseballs a game where u gotta respect talent no one gets that
rock2live1 1 year ago
As an aside two years later, this kid is no longer pitching, but not because of hurting his arm from any sort of breaking ball -- he just doesn't pitch or his team has other players who pitch better - I'm not the coach.
IMHO (and I throw knuckleballs without "pushing" the ball with my fingers), there wouldn't be the cast of major leaguers who "found" the knuckleball later in their careers if there was so much danger from pitching it. It's just a difficult pitch to master.
bigVBdaddy 1 year ago
this thread is almost comical...
I never said that knuckleballs were harmless, only that it would be far worse to be throwing curveballs at age 11. I'll also argue that there are several different ways to throw knuckleballs -- after all, the "release" from the pitching hand is largely what determines the resulting spin (or lack thereof) of the pitched ball.
Some of those methods undoubtedly involve using the fingers to "push out" the ball,but who knows the danger of that - I don't.
bigVBdaddy 1 year ago
wow whats your problem buddy? like he said this kid looks wayy too young to be snapping out curveballs.. take some deep breaths or something dude
icsm4a1 2 years ago
Everyone's commenting on how good or bad the knuckleball is...what I'd like to know is what kind of frickin moron of a parent do you have to be to let your kid throw a knuckleball? Say goodbye to the kid ever having any type of baseball future once he's done growing. His fingers will practically be falling off. Way to go, jackass.
svenlars99 2 years ago
First of all, this isn't my kid, so direct your misplaced anger somewhere else.
For an 11 year old, this may not be the best knuckleball, but its a heckuva lot easier on the arm then throwing curveballs at that age.
I'm sure he's throwing better knuckleballs than this by now, but I'm not videoing Thomas anymore.
bigVBdaddy 2 years ago
First off I never said you were the parent. If I said you were the parent, I would've said, you are a jackass. I was making a general statement. Secondly, there's a difference between anger and common sense, only one of which I was using. Thirdly, if you knew anything about baseball, you'd know that knuckleballs are absolute TERROR on fingers and hands, worse then the potential damage caused by curveballs.
svenlars99 2 years ago
@svenlars99 What? That may be the worst statement I've ever heard. If YOU knew anything about baseball, you'd know that knuckleballs are a very effortless pitch to throw.
Curveballs, however at a young age, if not thrown absolutely 100% correct, are VERY dangerous to a kid's arm. There have been minor leaguers who had to retire their dreams because they screwed up their arms at a young age.
Have YOU ever thrown a correct knuckler?
Go ahead and fight back, but you'll lose that argument, too.
PhilliesRavensFan 2 years ago
That's why there are so many knuckleballers in the Majors? So if it's that effortless, why aren't there more major leaguers throwing it? There have got to be more that can throw it for strikes as well as throw it good on a consistent basis, right? Why aren't they? Hmm, how many did I face when I was younger? Yep, none.
svenlars99 2 years ago
I'm not exactly sure you know how to throw a knuckleball, but one could use simple common sense in determining that the finger positions needed for the knuckleball are bad for young hands. The fingers being pushed up into an unfamiliar position is good for them? The jolt from the release of the knuckleball, pushing the fingers out, isn't bad for the fingers? The best knuckleballers out there didn't learn to throw one until they were done growing.
svenlars99 2 years ago
Alright, I had a response to you, but i'm not going to say that.
Obviously, we are getting nowhere by arguing like this. We both have different opinions, and I need to respect that you can believe what you want to believe, and I the same.
We both share something in common. We both love baseball. So lets not fight over how to throw a pitch we probably learned to throw differently from each other.
I'm sorry for being rude and demeaning, and I hope you accept that, but are sorry too. :D
PhilliesRavensFan 2 years ago
Besides, what have you proved to show that the knuckleball is an effortless pitch? How on earth can I lose an argument to someone that didn't provide one shred of evidence supporting their claim? That was a dumb statement, as well as the first thing you said..."That may be the worst statement I've ever heard". You didn't hear it, you read it. If you're going to argue with me, at least know how you're arguing. This is the internet, you don't hear anything. Well, maybe YOU do, who knows...
svenlars99 2 years ago
I looked all over the place. I checked databases, and other search engines, checked with the high-school pitching coach. ALL of them said that the Curveball is the most dangerous pitch in Baseball. I have a decent enough knuckleball, that I have used in games, and cna throw for strikes, to know that it does NOTHING to your fingers, and much less, the arm. I'm no master at it, I have not perfected it, but I know that it represents no danger to my arm and fingers.
PhilliesRavensFan 2 years ago
Plus, to answer your question about why there aren't any big-league knuckleballers:
I live this game. I have studied it extensively. I know that players, I know the pitches, I know how to properly takecare of yourself on a diamond.
If you had been around baseball long enough, you should know that in order to have a knuckleball worthy of MLB, it can not move from the point you release it, to the time it hits the plate. You need catchers who can catch it,
and you need control.
PhilliesRavensFan 2 years ago
All of those are hard to find.
"The jolt from the release...". What are you talking about? If you are able to properly release a ball, and your timing is correct, the ball's forward velocity and thrust makes it ten times easier to release it. Your fingers don't do all the work. Their positioning destroys the spin and movement, and as you release it, you push off to give it not only more velocity, but to prevent further spin. That is how you get the effect of a well-done knuckleball.
PhilliesRavensFan 2 years ago
Finally, why do I win this argument? I've seen knuckleballers. My father was a knuckleballer. He relies on the knuckleball because he ended up messing up his elbow and arm in high school. Throwing a curve ball. He was headed to the draft. He could've been a big-leaguer. Phil Niekro, the best knuckleballer of all time said the reason he had success was because of the knuckler.
So, I believe I have stated my reasons enough. Now where is YOUR evidence about knuckleballs?
PhilliesRavensFan 2 years ago
You still haven't shown me evidence proving that it doesn't hurt the fingers. And the "jolt" is at the point of release, the fingers are pushed outwards, "pushing the ball". Since you've never played baseball, I'll explain it to you. When you throw a ball, the ball rolls out of the hand, thus producing a spin on the ball. Since the point of the knuckleball is prevent this spin, the fingers are placed in such a way as to "push" the ball towards the place. The arm is moved in the same fashion
svenlars99 2 years ago
as a regular pitch, the only difference is the finger position as well as the hand position on the ball. Next, I never once said that the Curveball wasn't a stupid pitch for young kids to learn. In fact, I stated that it did cause damage, just not as much as knuckleballs. The simple fact that you cannot find any evidence proving that knuckleballs don't hurt the hand is simply because no self-respecting father is dumb enough to allow their child to throw the pitch, until he/she has matured.
svenlars99 2 years ago
Thirdly, don't assume I don't know anything about baseball. Tim Wakefield was an infielder that didn't learn to throw it until he was already in the minors. Do you honestly think he would still be pitching had he learned to throw it at a young age, and throw it consistently during games? Same with Phil Niekro? Phil Niekro learned when he was a kid, much like we all did, but didn't start throwing it until he was in high school(ie. done growing).
svenlars99 2 years ago
"I think me and Hoyt Wilhelm basically started when we were kids and threw it in high school. Most of the other knuckleballers picked it up later." Quote directly from Phil Niekro. Again, we all learned these pitches when we were young. Any self-respecting father would never let his kid throw anything other then a fastball and changeup until he's done growing, because every other pitch out there causes some type of stress on the hands.
svenlars99 2 years ago
@svenlars99 - "just not as much as knuckleballs."
This is dumb, knuckleballs are completely safe for kids to throw, and repeated curveballs can be extremely damaging. It's the snap down (or sideways) that puts stress on the elbow and wrist of a pitcher, and this can hurt a kids development. The knuckleball release is smooth, and the arm speed is less. It's probably safer to throw than repeated fastballs. Where did you hear knuckleballs damage kid's arms?
Miko5000 1 year ago
@bigVBdaddy Your COMPLETELY right. there are sooo many ways to throw a knuckleball that how can you assume he is sticking his nails in the seams ? maybe he doesnt put it on the seams soo it wont hurt anything. So im trying to figure out what kid of idiot it takes to build up stupidity such as svenlars99
EPHplayer7 1 year ago
@svenlars99 what are you talking about idiot
UWHUSKY4 6 months ago
uh,..still not great but better than the first one
IGotSkills3 2 years ago
if ur gonna throw that pitch u have to keep it low or something. putting it over the plate and it will get crushed
nboymcbucks 2 years ago
what an awkward delivery, and no motion whatsoever
ukraineintherain 2 years ago
Not as good as the first one, at his age that's sort of like a sinker/splitter, he left that up way too much.
OneKnuckleballinFool 3 years ago
better have that kid warm up his neck, wouldn't want him to get whiplash when that thing gets crushedddddd.
sweet change up
hyewrestler 3 years ago
Umm wow i saw no movement.....
harryscaryjerry 3 years ago
Are you kidding me? That pitch would get killed
stpierre3313 3 years ago