@g1attie It's hilarious how your comment is (conciously or not) a parody of itself.
You bash someone's communication skills while only making two short statements and you bash his argumentation while not making any arguments against either how his argument is wrong or that MW is valid.
Peter is a genius, but I don't necessarliy agree with everything he says. "Higher wages come from higher productivity". Then why do people at McDonalds make so little? They produce a lot. And don't tell me that it is because they have a low skill job. Their jobs require more skills than many professions. And just because they have the freedom to compete for a higher paying job doesn't discredit my point either.
@jwc160 "And don't tell me that it is because they have a low skill job."
Well that's still it. If they would have more skill, they would do something else. There's really little to argue about. If they learn something that requires more skill, they likely will earn more.
@jwc160 Think about it in terms of supply- McDonald's DOES require relative skill to work at, but it's skill just about anyone can learn. Being an engineer, however, requires skills that are extremely difficult to learn. If you're no good at math, no can do. Also, higher wages come from higher labor productivity, but productivity doesn't stem solely from labor. E.g., the McDonald's I live by has a machine automating the drink pouring process- more productivity overall, but less from labor.
CeSarG222. You may be from Denmark, but where are you getting your stats from? Straight from Wikipedia it says that there is no national minimum wage in Denmark, and that on average minimum wage there pays $23,573. Which doesn't equal 20 bucks an hour. But more like $12.25.
take example china.People work all day like machines for like 1$ pr hour and for some it's their only option they have. They might not be jobless but it's slave wage's.Im from Denmark and the jobless is 6% and we have a high minimum wage (around 20$).If you work at Mcdonalds full time(37hours a week)then you will have standard living.But if you work at mcdonald's in USA and work the same hours,you won't have the same standard living.so it forces people to have 2+jobs because minimum wage is low.
I think it's not because of minimum wage but because inflation caused by debt to foreign nations is causing the cost of living to rise, like food and gas prices are soaring.
@videomakerman1232 It is very true that inflation is causing the price of living to rise, but that is not the point here. You can still be underpaid when there is zero inflation. (Btw debt to foreign nations doesn't cause inflation).
No but debts to other nation could cause hyper inflation in prices. That's why many Austrian Economists predict the US will experience hyper inflation. On the contrast, Japan has been experiencing decades of hyper deflation because the debts are held domestically.
@videomakerman1232 Inflation is the increase in the money supply. That doesn't occur because of debt to foreign nations. Inflation occurs by the federal reserve creating more money and when they lower interest rates and then bank's creates even more money when they make loan's, through what is called Fractional reserve banking.
Luggage carriers at the airport, gas pumpers and ushers at a theater.Those are bad arguments against minimum wage, nobody need those services!. Not having a minimum wage law is a big problem because then people will be exploited by the greedy corporations. Let's say 5 people wants a job at mcdonald's (they all have equal abilities) then without a minimum wage law then mcdonalds can just hire the one who will work for the least amount pr hour.
Correct, let's say that's the case. With minimum wage laws that forces employers not to hire them, or to hire one instead of 3. Without them in place, McDonalds wouldn't just be hiring the one person out of the bunch, it would be able to afford to employ more workers. Minimum wage is price fixing, in essence. The skill and value of labor are determined by supply and demand. Simly affixing an artificial price doesn't lower or raise the value of...
Ive got a great idea, lets pay less money, (no lets replace them with automation) to those so called bank genuises who rekon there worth millions, when infact the money there gambling with comes from people like those on the minimum wage, its the rich that are pricing people out of the job market because they dont want to pay a fair rate, but want everything cheaper then yesterday, when infact the cost has gone up, you know the real factor with a minimum wage is there should be a maximum wage...
@1kingrich First of all, you have the RICH and the FILTHY RICH (Elites) confused. The RICH are what's keeping the economy going. And secondly it's not the FILTHY RICHES' fault, and I certainly DON'T mean to include all of them, that the GOVERNMENT let's them have special powers/privileges or gives them special surety or monopoly authority, etc. so they are able to do crazy things that they wouldn't dare do in an open and free economy where competition dictates how you behave not government rule.
@1kingrich And the RICH are most certainly paying more than their fair share if you are talking about increasing taxes on the RICH. These are the people that provide jobs and a boost to the economy in any kind of time. Some already pay around half of their income in taxes and we want more? Blaming the rich who are mostly people or organizations that make honest and genuine money and increasing taxes on them is only going to run them out of business or cause them to shrink in size leaving more
@1kingrich people jobless. Anyway what I am saying is the finger pointing needs to be at government who already has too many powers and seems to decide to give away special benefits to special interests whenever it wants. Yes, the individuals like a few on wall street who committed crimes against the people should be prosecuted for it but then you have to go to the source of why they were able to do those things. More than anything you can't blame all of wall street or all big businesses or
@1kingrich all the rich because most of them are honest people. Prosecute the few dishonest but really blame washington, the white house, the federal government for getting involved with and giving special powers to their special interests not just on wall street but everywhere in the world when history has shown that free markets handle them selves much better than any intervention.
its a double edged sword though because business is governed by self interest... you abolish the minimum wage then skilled trade gets hired for chump change. its a tricky issue.
@pauloscum Thats like saying that if consumers can choose whether or not to buy a product based on the price, then businesses will have to sell their products for free. Also, abolishing the minimum wage will lower the cost of businesses thereby lowering prices for the skilled worker so he can buy more with the money he makes.
@david52875 yes as i said its a double edged sword... look this is all unnecessary complicated!!! what is money? its barter in essence by proxy... we agree that this paper note is in essence for a set amount of existing commodities... yes real ones... so we agree as a consensus that say.. a goat is worth 4 chickens.. well all of the acrobatics that happen in the middle that we call economics... its bullshit!!!!
WAGE reflects EXPERIENCE. Businesses pay minimum wages to people who have LITTLE OR NO experience. Frisco, TX MW: $7.25 I get payed $8.00 as a Sales Associate. They pay me ABOVE MINIMUM! Why on earth would they suddenly pay me less just because Minimum Wage got reduced? Only 0.052% of the population is payed minimum wage! And 53% of that are teenagers! That .052% is the only thing that will change. Everyone who gets payed more wont loose their job. More teenagers will be employed.
Schiff seeks the abolition of the minimum wage, but he does not seem to be interested in whether or not people receive a living wage - sufficient to sustain a viable basic existence including rent, food, clothing, fuel, and so on. He concentrates instead if the sad decline in people pumping gas or carrying groceries for barely $5/hr. Working people need to be generate enough income to survive and minimum wage legislation helps, not hinders, people in that regard
@Monstrance23 but the thing is the people that would do the below minimum wage they wouldnt be needing to make a living. the usher's were probably just high schoolers looking to make a buck. at first i too thought his argument was how sad that i can no longer get my shopping carried by someone who's not making a living and that is quite appalling but that isnt the argument. but you gota remember if the wage is too low they don't have to do it they're not being forced.
@Monstrance23 This is how bus boys, waiters, bartenders and others make a living. If labor costs are cheaper that usually means that prices of goods will be cheaper and more money available to the consumer for tipping :) Plus, another upside is the amount of jobs available. This will open unskilled job labor in to the market for those who are under-qualified like most minorities and teenagers. Those with more labor experience will obviously want to negotiate a wage.
i dont agree with the low skilled wages argument. mcdonalds and movie theatres make more than enough money to pay someone to do those low-skill jobs. no minimum wage would just allow employers to take advantage. i think it would also drive down the median income altogether. we would share a level field with china and india and americans dont want that. get rid of the pointless, greed-driven regulations and free trade agreements, don't drive wages down further then they already are or going.
I dont think we need more politician what we need is take out the ones that is already there.
What you think can you do by yourself?
Change has to be done from below and not above.
Every 4 years politician come and go, however the shit still the same doesn't matter the country.
Tell me, what you have that anyone in this world hasn't? What you can do that anyone already promised to do? believe me sir you do better job here opening people mind, helping us understand what is going one.
Fuck minimum wage lets just bring back slavery. Lets pass a law that anybody unemployed for more than 2 weeks (unless they have a rich family) must be placed up for sale to the highest bidder. At least this way the unemployed will get fed.
@believerornot they already did bring back slavery.....govt schools, working for free (income tax), surveillance society, war, debt............all brought to you by the governments "help".
Mr Schiff. Do you realize that putting profit before the lives of HUMAN BEINGS makes you psychotic? Please turn yourself into the nearest psychiatric institution before you harm even more people.
Having no minimum wage means companies can't charge ridiculously low wages for human slave-labor jobs, thus I don't have somebody to pump my gas or to wipe my ass after I take a shit. Its a shame we can't take more advantage of poor people, foreigners, and young people. Fuck.
LMAO... fantastic....no minimum wage means you can get desperate people to clean your windows or build you a fence and pay them so little they have to live on the street. ...but hey ...at least you are giving them a 'job'.
@FartyFace thank to your brilliant mind ......I have become more educated, I shall get some desperate people who can't find a job working for me.. building my fences and cleaning my windows. ..It's so dumb of me to care if I am not paying them enough to live on....I am doing them a favour, it's much better than having no job at all and it must be their own fault if they don't have any more valuable skills.
@peterjol no, thank to you I have become the mostest educated:
Giving desperate people a job is a very bad thing and they are much better off being unemployed. 0 dollars an hour is infinitely better than $5/hour. Next time someone comes begging me for a low paying job I will try to explain to them how they are better off not working and waiting for a job that pays really well to come along.
@FartyFace No no ...please keep on being such a good person and paying them a wage they can't live on....as you say at least they are getting 'something' and that must be better than nothing. How could it be wrong?
@FartyFace To be honest I am only messing with you......I couldn't care less about minimum wages or the monetary system itself, I know it cannot be changed in any significant way to make this a better world. The fact is whatever happens it's leading us to an ever worsening future...... I am only interested in the RBE idea proposed by the, Zeitgeist movement and the Venus project.
i have listened to your arguments on youtube and elsewhere and i am a fan. but are you out ur fuc*kin mind?!?! that was the most fu*kin insanely short sighted argument for getting rid of MW ever. clearly you have never had to struggle in the lower bracket of the work force. MW is needed because corporations dont know when to stop, and technology has evolved so as to eliminate those retarded examples of lower than MW jobs.. Please TRY AGAIN!!!!
Sounds like you agree with his point then. MW does in fact destroy jobs. The only difference between you and Pete is that Pete thinks these jobs are worth saving and you think we are better off without them.
Its a choice between higher unemployment but with those that actually have jobs making more money, and lower unemployment but also lower wages. Which one is better? I guess that depends on how good your unemployment benefits are.
Even if thats true (which its not), it will be way way WAY less than the increase in crime due to higher unemployment. At least acknowledge that for us. If someone is willing to commit a crime because their paycheck is lower, they will be way more willing to commit a crime if their paycheck is gone entirely.
LoL look at what this tard actually believes. He thinks that having wages reduced by a few dollars per hour will cause people to commit crimes. He also thinks that having wages reduced to ZERO will not cause people to commit crimes.
How fucking retarded do you have to be to think this? by the way its racist as fuck to say that low wage workers are going to go out and commit crimes. You should be ashamed you fucking bigot
@FartyFace do you even know what racism is. brainwashed.
looking trough the half empty glass ,both statements are true, crime will be raised by lowering and dissapearing jobs, if jobs dissapear and those people dont have any new job to realocate their time with ,then yeah that would bring out more crime than just lowering the mid class wages
To those of you who are employers and support eliminating MW: you're saying that you think your employers are a financially worthless investment. So why did you hire them in the first place? Either you're a cheap bunch of bastards, or you're entirely stupid and don't know how to handle your money.
In this economy, about all the jobs one can find are low-paying ones. All I'm trying to do is survive. Now some idiot teabagger wants to eliminate MW to "spur economic growth". Really? Who the hell is going to work for $3.00/hr? Who can afford to do that? You'd see a HUGE rush to the welfare ranks if MW were abolished. Besides, for every wonderful new sub-MW job created, employers would have to purchase more workman's comp. And we all know how much employers hate paying overhead, don't we?
@cincyblows Teenagers and/or desperately poor people would accept those jobs. What you continuously fail to understand is that a job that pays 3 dollars/hour will not raise it's wages to the MW if MW laws were to be enacted. No, that job would legislated out of existence and that worker you care so much about will be unemployed because no employer can pay a worker more than what he brings to the employer.
@cincyblows contd. Also there's much greater incentive to live on welfare when all the jobs you ( an unskilled worker) would have had a chance to be employed by are now nowhere to be seen or found since they're pretty much illegal now. At least without the MW they could have a job if they wanted to but with MW they're pushed towards welfare regardless of their willingness to work.
@crazypants88 Why do you assume I lack skills (other than social)? In this economy it isn't unusual to see people with MBAs working the drive-thru. I'd have to go on welfare (I hate the thought, but...) if MW were abolished in this economy. We both know employers will be all too happy to "create jobs" that pay $4.00/hr -hardly a liveable wage. What are we to do? Work 100 hours/week? I'm getting ready to return to grad school in order to get away from this mess, but others will seek welfare.
@cincyblows And yes, I'm relying on student loans -unless Bachmann and Radtke decide to eliminate those as well. Something about those two smacks too much of "caste system" for my liking.
Hey Schiff, When MW is eliminated and wages drop under $5.00/hr, and all those wonderful new jobs are created, how much extra is an employer going to have to pay in workman's comp for each new hire? Because it gets expensive quickly. Uh-oh. Now you have overhead that has to be trimmed. Guess how that happens? By getting rid of some of those workers. So much for all that Utopian "job creation" whose intent is strictly to make phony conservatives look good at election time.
Since you think low-wage workers aren't worth much, Mr. Schiff, then why do you hire them in the first place? You certainly don't mind the amount of productivity you get from them, do you?
Promise to create more jobs if MW is eliminated. Then, when MW is gone, realize you CAN'T afford to hire all those extra workers due to the massive workman's comp you'd have to provide for each and every employee you would like to have had. Finally, get drunk and fall into despair as millions of workers realize they have to go on welfare at your expense, since they can't afford to work for $3.00/hr. What are you crying about? This is what you wanted.
Low-skilled labor doesn't exist to the magnitude 50years ago anymore, but low (or "wrong") skilled workers exists still plenty. Hence supply&demand suggests drastic wage falls far below productivity. The problem is, that workers are not goods which we can just supply less next year. They are there and supplying work for 50 years. What should they do? Living on food stamps, or work for less than they earn their employers? Minimum wage could help them.
Really why can't we make it so you can opt of out minimum wage yourself? I really don't see any problem with that idea- if somebody at all does, please explain to me what the problem is (not sarcasm, I really want to know).
@jeffiek OK, to be fair lets include costs of capital. Let's say the restaurant buys an expensive dishwasher for 10.000$. Now he takes a loan for 10% per year which makes 1000$ of interest payment per year. Alternatively he can employ 2 workers (and that is a conservative estimate) for 500$ per year. Assuming machine and employee are equally efficient and the employee will work 230 days for 8 hour's yields 500$/(8*230) = 0.27$ per hour. So 20cent sounds not entirely unrealistic.
@SmartPappnase Your taking the argument too literally. The simple point is that the government should not be stopping people from working for a wage that is acceptable to them.
@jeffiek Than maybe you can enlight me how a dishwasher can earn more. It was Schiff's example with the dishwashers.
Automatic dishwashers use nowadays less resources than washing dishes by hand does. So wages should be negative. This is just a job which will never come back, however you decrease wages (or maybe forbid automatic dishwashers???). The same is true if you compare costs to one-way plastic plates. If you wanna change that you need environmental protection laws. ;)
It is most certainly true, that people who provide less productivity than minimum wage won't get hired. However, like he also mentioned is that the wage depends on SUPPLY & DEMAND! That means if there is an excess in low skilled labor, salaries will go down dramatically independent of their productivity. Whether this will sufficiently increase employment is at least questionable. Should a dishwasher earn 20cent in order to compete with a machine or plastic plates to make that happen?
The only thing the minimum wage accomplishes is that mom and pop can no longer run their own businesses because the labor costs them too much. It creates job shortages, and that's the cause why there are no jobs.
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as long as interest groups keep controlling the congress of America(the best congress money can buy) there will be no change to the minimum wage laws, it would make too much sense. WAKE UP AMERICA RON PAUL 2012
@nfwvideo1 your lacking some intelligence... and 8 year old has rights and a limited-government would have authority to protect children.. businesses should be able to discriminate because they should have a right to go about their business as they want. It's called freedom.
Why not? SO LONG AS, he's willing, you can't FORCE him, if you didn't've means to support children then you should'n't've had any; it is erroneous to blame businesses for child-labor, what about their parents' responsibility? In a lot of cases of child-labor, if they don't work then they don't eat & die, is that somehow better?
Private businesses have right to choose who they want to hire, otherwise it'd infringe their freedom while it is PUBLIC SECTOR that CAN'T discriminate.
I just don't understand, Australia's minimum's wage is the highest it's ever been, yet its unemployment rate is as low as it's ever been for decades! Sure, being a major commodity exporter to China, the rising commodity prices would have helped. But the Austrian School states that the number of jobs should decrease as the min. wage is raised, so how do you explain the phenomenon that this is not the case for Australia? I just don't understand.
Minimum Wage is a violation of people's personal freedom & their right to work. I mean if an individual WANTS to accept a job below minimum wage then no govt or anyone else should've the right to deny him & keep him unemployed.
And if MW is so great,why not keep it at $50/hr or $100/hr? That'd make prices of goods/services skyrocket along with skyrocketing unemployment as no business would be able to hire any employee who's not worth $50 or $100. This impact stays true at ANY level of MW
Those types of jobs are usless to people who need health care n have a family. What if you couldn't afford education beyond hs. Then your forced at 45yo to either compete with hs kids happy to take 3.50/hr or you comitting crime (like splitting wiggs of old manipulators like urself.)
@nfwvideo1 The homeless veteran is not smart because he could potentially save every penny of his income while the armed forces supports all his living expenses. If one does not go drinking like a sailor, one could learn to save on food provided by the armed forces. Don't go for extras.
@nfwvideo1 Everyone has a choice of whether or not to accept a job depending upon the work or the wage. Whether one decides it to be disrespectful is their own opinion. Work is work, and what can put food on the table is respectful in my book. Whether someone makes $50/hr or 5$/hr, everyone needs to eat.
@itachi705 if by stupid you mean I can read a history book, I guess so. The assertion that the minimum wage dissolved all these low paying jobs is inconsistent with the historical facts he leverages in favor of his opinion.
Businesses naturally gravitate towards the most profitable operations, which generally are the cheapest. Guys pumping gas didn't go away over wages, they went away because self service is cheaper than anything they were paying those guys (unless they work for free).
" Guys pumping gas didn't go away over wages, they went away because self service is cheaper than anything they were paying those guy"
You mean people were so stupid back then that they didn't realize that "self-service is cheaper"? Are you kidding me! General living standards & profits were much lower back then compared to now so, if anything, people back then would've been more receptive to cutting costs than they're now. Fact is those jobs outpriced themselves due to MW.
The first national minimum wage law was in 1938. After 1938 there were ushers, people who pumped your gas, etc. so it can't be that minimum wage eliminated those jobs since they continued to exist for decades after the minimum wage was established nationally. I guess facts don't matter...
The first national minimum wage law was in 1938. After 1938 there were ushers, people who pumped your gas, etc. so it can't be that minimum wage eliminated those jobs since they continued to exist for decades after the minimum wage was established nationally. I guess facts don't matter...
This one guy at my work, who is 45 years old, useless, only knows how to clean engine parts but could never put an engine together. He thinks minimum wage should be the national average wage of $40711. LMFAO.
When my mother retired, she didn't like being alone (father died), so she took a job at the hospital talking to the patients. It was volunteer work and didn't pay anything at all. She was happy keeping busy and the patients were happy too; she liked helping people. If they paid her $1/hr (or $2 or $3), I'm sure she would have taken it, either way she didn't feel disrespected at all....but, because of the MW law, they can't pay her anything!
@nfwvideo1 Your minimum wage is the lowest amount of money you agree to receive for your services. If you agree to accept $1.00/hr, it means you believe that is what your labor is worth and who knows better than you? No one is required to give you a job. Jobs are a privilege. If the government makes it a law that you cannot receive less than $5/hr, A company will not hire you because it wouldn't be cost effective to pay someone $5/hr for $1/hr worth of labor.
Even European nations (some of them, I think) have age waivers for the minimum wage.
Why can't we have a dependency waiver on the min wage? If you're a dependent of someone, you can work at whatever wage you like.
Of course that's not how kids see it. I know a girl from Oregon who "likes her state's $8.25 min wage". She's unemployed. She can't connect the dots.
These business owners are so fucking stupid. By their logic making a penny an hour is better then no money but fail to see that its still bad. You need to make your wages good its that simple.
"YOU MUST READ THIS IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR PURCHASING POWER IN THE US DOLLAR. Check out my channel I have videos of peter schiff, he is a pure genius that predicted the housing bubble economic depression of 2008 and is predicting a much larger collapse of the US dollar in the near future"
Peter - I work in a supermarket and I bag groceries and always offer take them out to the car. Also, there are gas station attendees that pump the gas for me. I live in Oregon
@BMANZZS It's not as bad in America as it is in my home country Germany. We don't have people who bag your groceries or goods. We also pump our own gas. It's like this everywhere in Europe. Germany might not have an official minimum wage, but union benefits are applied to everyone in Germany, which means underemployment has become a serious problem, since companies are reluctant to hire young workers full time. Minimum wage laws and unions do reduce employment, it's just how it is.
He said wage should be determined by productivity. Yes, he's right, but hasn't productivity increased? Have wages increased in relation to productivity? No. In fact, the average worker used to make about 20x and their boss. The boss or ceo now mkaes somehting like 200x the average worker. That's where the money to pay higher wages went; right into the pockets of the guys at the top. Wages can be increased in many, if not, most markets.
Is it really the minimum wage wiping out these jobs or is it large greedy companies pushing to improve profits and growth each year? Peter talks about people pumping gas for you, that's not small business, you think Shel/BP can't afford to pay people minimum wage? Mimimum wage is there to stop people being exploited and to give people a LIVING wage.
@HONDOMACLEAN83 I would argue that minimum wage laws are in effect because of corporations lobbying the government. They can easily afford minimum wage but their competitors might not. Also MW laws reduce the production of cheap goods which would primarily help poor people. For example if want to produce low quality cutlery for a very cheap price, I might not be able to because the costs of employing people would excede my profits.
@crazypants88 I find it amusing that in your arugment you use 'small business' as a victim of the minimum wage. I'm guessing you live in America, where small business doesn't exist. The vast, VAST majority of people in your country are employed by large corporations who make ridiculous profits for there wall street share holders. Also, that's why manufacturing jobs are shipped off to China. You have no idea what the working conditions are like there, and you certainly would not work for that.
@crazypants88 cont. also find it amusing that it is the rich and middle class that champion your point of view, not poor people themselves. If poor people were out marching for the abolition of the minimum wage then I may have a different point of view. However, this isn't the case and NEVER will be.
@HONDOMACLEAN83 Honestly the only people I'm aware who are for the abolition of the MW are libertarians. Most of libertarians I know are at best middle class. Non of this is pertinent to the discussion, really.
If black people would march in favour of reinstituting slavery, would you then favour slavery?
@HONDOMACLEAN83 No I'm Icelandic actually. And small businesses are by no means non-existant in the US, they're decreasing in number, sure. But they still do exist.
I'm not going to deny that by our western standards working conditions in China are lower then what we would expect, but then again their becoming a 1st world very rapidly. Those people take these jobs because they're easier and pay better then their previous jobs, which were mostly subsistance farming I'm guessing.
@HONDOMACLEAN83 Also wealth accumulation takes time. The western world has had what, a century plus to accumulate the wealth we see today. Now China as with India is doing the same thing.
Therefore because of MW, my business never starts and poorer people would be forced to pay for more expensive cutlery.
Speaking of exploitation, wouldn't you call it exploitation to deny a poor unemployed person an income simply because it's lower than the MW. That person would much rather have a below MW income than an income of zero.
this guy is exactly right....i use to be a liberal, then studied up a lil on libertarian theories...and they make total sence and they signs that libertarians are right is in plain sight....everytime you raise the min wage, unemployment goes up....this is not to defend the rich...raise min wage..small biz hurt, lay ppl off...therefore hurting lower class more than raising it helps..think about it.
The employer just doesn't pay minimum wage...there are taxes added on that the employer must pay!!! Until you run a business, you have no concept of the cost and running a business. Not all business's are greedy corporate bastards! We treat our employee's very well, we pay benefits and we are a small business. But if we were not forced to pay min wage...I could hire some h/s workers this summer part-time...but M/W is now ruining that option..so NO job's!!! Doesn't make sense.
lol they dont have people bagging grocerys any more. my friend started out as a bagger now hes a manager. i see low wage work as a foot in the door. you cant live off min wage but if you work hard than you will move up.
@519ist Theoretcially, there is no such thing as a loser anyway, if one takes a deterministic view of the universe. But as far as progess goes, if people are being pushed out of jobs onto the street, is that progress? Great! Let them live in front of your house, not mine asshole!
@NBTY4ever The whole fiscal system is broken, 75% of jobs can be replaced with machines(with current technology) and the system will continue to show its cracks year after year. The first ppl that get canned are the most unimportant ones...and booting ppl on the street is progress under the current monetary system. dumbass
Most conservatives say, if you do not have a college degree, then you should not complain about making minimum wage. Many years ago during the Reagan times, Nancy Reagan complained about the American workers not being able to read. But she was say reading at college level.
Hearing these people babbling on that they should be able to pay people as little as they like, is like watching a fat man at a barbecue taking most of the burgers, then squealing like a spoiled brat after being told he must give the man doing the cooking at least one of the burgers back.
so what if people dont work. pay them to stay home or go to school and become engineers and scientists. collectively as a society their is nothing that says we need all humans doing something to achieve a better world. should we not automate the picking of all fruits and vegetables or automate the production of all material things just so large groups of people will have something to do. robots and machines are the future for most labor.
@HandyMan101 I disagree. Take Wal-Mart for example. The Walton family has BILLIONS of dollars, each member has about $18 billion each; making it about $90 BILLION combined. That's right, $90 billion.
That's absurd. That means that most of the profits are going to THEM, not the company. Now really, does a family really need $90 billion? That's just pure greed. They can trickle that down to employees, instead of THEMSELVES.
@Overfl00d I don't understand your logic at all. Why run a business, out of charity? No, the business is about making money for those who run it. Everything else is fluff. Saying that somebody must pay more to whoever is retarded, nobody forces people to work for Walmart. Quit.
@romanmir01 Who says it's about charity? It's about ethics and morality. Their pockets are overflowing with so much cash, it's almost pathetic.
A business is not just as you say, being greedy and keeping all the money to yourself; it's about the overall contribution to society. Of course running a business, the owner should be making profit, but not at the expense of screwing your employees with slave wage - which is what they really are.
Of course this world will be filled with greedy people.
"A business is not just as you say, being greedy and keeping all the money to yourself" - of-course it is. However a business that is not doing the right thing for the market will not make any money. Business is about making as much money as possible. In absence of government screwing with the economy and creating monopolies and printing money, businesses become wealthy by making the best offer to the customer
Business adds to society plenty - products, services, jobs. Good enough?
"The Walton family has BILLIONS of dollars, each member has about $18 billion each"
omg & what do they do with every penny they own?
1.They either spend it, which then forms the basis for the wages/salaries of those involved in producing goods/services they buy
2.They save & invest it directly or indirectly (thru banks) which creates more jobs, more goods/services; & more goods/services = lower prices for EVERYONE
"slave wage" is misnomer as slaves can't quit or get PAID
I agree. The minimum wage law is, again, the result of too much government intervention. Here the U.S. government is stepping into our private lives touting its horn saying "We're protecting you from yourself". If someone willingly wants to work for $3.00 an hour, then they should be allowed to. This will keep business costs down and then businesses can afford to sell their products for less making the $3.00 you make per hour have more value.
@ohmahh unfortunately we live in a society and an economic system that is all about making profits. So while this is a great IDEA, it would never be implemented. The wages would be dropped but the prices of products would stay the same.
@Spatulater Good point, many corporations do in fact focus primarily on maximizing profits. It is also reasonable to assume that such a substantial decrease in the amount being paid in wages would in fact add to corporate profits. This is a good thing to some extent. However, to assume that every corporation would simply keep the same prices and not try to lower their shelf prices to move in on competition is unrealistic. Price competition would most certainly drag shelf prices down.
@HandyMan101 Lets analyse the grocery store example Peter brought up. If you rid of the min wage law, all cashiers and baggers and store workers are going to make less, no unions=more profit for the store owners=the wages decline overall= working class has less money to spend= you increase economic inequality =he store also sells less for that matter. Mark my word Peter is wrong on this one
@HandyMan101 I wouldn't insult Schiff by calling him an economist. People might associate the talking head economists on the box with the Tour de Force of common sense that is Peter Schiff
OMG, I just got to the end. You actually think it's alright for people to work for a dollar or two an hour while you beg for our donations?! You disgusting pig. Handouts are fine for you but a living wage isn't fine for Americans. Typical Republican. Welfare for the rich. Nothing for anyone else.
Well hell Peter. Why not go back to child labor and slaves? I mean, the rich want cheap labor. They want to pay the least amount with no oversight or laws. Let's just round up some helpless people and make them work for us. That's what people like you really want. Society and decent people have, thank God, prevented people like you from enslaving others for profit. You may be right on some things but on this subject you absolutely sicken me. You can tell your God is money.
I'm all for paying people what they're worth. Maybe we should take a look at that, see what people do and what they get for doing it, and call a public referendum on the result.
Let's start with the very top earners, and work down.
The argument against a living wage has to be the flimsiest, most pretentious pile of horseshit ever shat out of a Conservative asshole. The veneer is transparent, but what's under it?
"I want to make money money money, a whole shitload of it, and I don't want to pay the workforce to do it but I have to, so I want to pay as little as I can get away with."
I'd like to see this idiot survive one fucking day on a minimum wage. And if he was paid 'what he's worth', he'd be on welfare.
@failont01 "Corporate culture" would not be possible without "big government". Regulations almost always hurt small businesses and small farms while empowering mega corporations_ Case in point Obamacare,. which will be a burden for every small business just trying to survive the depression, while mega corporations like Mcdonalds and Jack in the Box, among many others, are exempt _ On top of that higher taxes prevent new, potentially more ethical businesses from entering the market_
@evandonghue2 Are you in favour of laws to ensure the big guns like McDonalds pay a living wage, with exemption for small, struggling businesses, or are you just throwing small businesses into the mix to give the argument some credibility? I see 'ethical' concerns in there too. Trust me, getting Joe Public on side will take quite a miracle, and definitely something much more crafty than that. He's the poor sucker who does all the work. He knows.
@London2272 Your class warfare stance is misguided_ The best thing any poor person could do, is find a rich person to teach them a thing or two about money matters_ The real evil in the world is using violence to solve your problems_ Minimum wage is wrong because it is an act of aggression_ I don't like mega corporations as they are the government now_ London2272 we have to come up with non violent or non government (they are the same after all) solutions to the problem of poverty_
@evandonghue2 I thought so. You want emancipation for the already free. Leave those big guns alone, eh? Hey, that's a good idea, let's have all the working people go to Beverley Hills and ask for advice. If you have someone working to create wealth for you, yet you let him live in abject poverty, you're definitely causing violence toward him, if we use your definition of 'violence' vis-a-vis one person using force against another.
Interesting how you're trying hard to look progressive though.
@London2272 Im not trying to look like anything_ Im trying to live non hypocritical life, If you want others to stop stealing, then you must also not steal_ If you want to end violence you must put down the guns/laws_ You see, once you bandage over a problem with state violence it never really solves anything and you are robbed of the opportunity to really solve the problem, be it poverty or whatever_ Government solutions are ruining any hope of a good job market/solution_
@London2272 " If you have someone working to create wealth for you, yet you let him live in abject poverty, you're definitely causing violence toward him."
This is not violence unless of course he/she is being held at gun point at work_ This worker should seek new employment instead of petitioning the government to give him/her a raise at the end of a gun barrel_ I've worked low wage jobs, I've quit low wage jobs_ Its called free choice, don't allow yourself to be pushed around_ Demand more
@freddo27 You talk as if workers can't tell their employers to "take this job and shove it". You can't chant "power to the people" then tell the "people" they have no power because their corporate masters own them_ Fact is i've told many former employers to fu*k off, demanding better wages and/or treatment_ People are powerful_ Stick up for yourself... Trust me, you will be more successful than the government_
@freddo27 Unemployment is high... So you want the government to stick a gun in my employers face to force him to pay me more>? Thanks but no thanks... I think I will look for a more logical solution_
@evandonghue2 If he's got a job for you, it''s the only job you can find, and because of conservative thinking you've been forced to take any old job to get off welfare (with a metaphorical gun in your face), and he wants to pay you such a shitty wage that you'd never survive on it, yep, I'm more than happy to see the law make him pay you enough to live on. Just like I'm more than happy to see any other traders prevented from ripping you off. Being wealthy doesn't exempt bosses from laws.
@freddo27 Laws are violence_ Also remember, if the government really wanted me to have more money, then they would stop stealing half of it though slavish labor taxes_ Stop being naive, the government does not care about you, it literally farms you for tax dollars, they want to see you broke, dependent and weak_ Well im not weak and I don't need any john wayne, uncle sam, law making, gun point'n, thieving goon protecting me from my employer whom I value/respect because he pays me_
@evandonghue2 Those who take the most out of society can rightly be expected to put a fair amount back in. Living in this society has given them all the wealth they could ever need, but it's never enough, is it? They want to take and take without restraint, milk society for all its worth, squirrel money away, but ask them to put anything substantial back in and they get out of their prams.Make them pay a fair wage to those producing their wealth, and off they go again. It won't cut it any more.
1. your communication skills are average (at best).
2. argumentative skills average (at best)!
g1attie 1 week ago
@g1attie It's hilarious how your comment is (conciously or not) a parody of itself.
You bash someone's communication skills while only making two short statements and you bash his argumentation while not making any arguments against either how his argument is wrong or that MW is valid.
crazypants88 1 week ago
Businesses make sensible cost savings = the fault of the minimum wage?
MrNobrat 2 weeks ago
this didnt make all the sense he thought it would
joseney21 1 month ago
Peter is a genius, but I don't necessarliy agree with everything he says. "Higher wages come from higher productivity". Then why do people at McDonalds make so little? They produce a lot. And don't tell me that it is because they have a low skill job. Their jobs require more skills than many professions. And just because they have the freedom to compete for a higher paying job doesn't discredit my point either.
jwc160 1 month ago
@jwc160
How difficult is it learn to make fries as compared to performing heart surgeries or design integrated circuits?
The "productivity" Schiff is referring to is the value of your skill and your knowledge and that's reflected in your salary.
joechien0218 1 month ago
@jwc160 "And don't tell me that it is because they have a low skill job."
Well that's still it. If they would have more skill, they would do something else. There's really little to argue about. If they learn something that requires more skill, they likely will earn more.
TWSceptic 1 month ago
@jwc160 Think about it in terms of supply- McDonald's DOES require relative skill to work at, but it's skill just about anyone can learn. Being an engineer, however, requires skills that are extremely difficult to learn. If you're no good at math, no can do. Also, higher wages come from higher labor productivity, but productivity doesn't stem solely from labor. E.g., the McDonald's I live by has a machine automating the drink pouring process- more productivity overall, but less from labor.
aseacucumber07 1 month ago
CeSarG222. You may be from Denmark, but where are you getting your stats from? Straight from Wikipedia it says that there is no national minimum wage in Denmark, and that on average minimum wage there pays $23,573. Which doesn't equal 20 bucks an hour. But more like $12.25.
marksuave25 2 months ago
take example china.People work all day like machines for like 1$ pr hour and for some it's their only option they have. They might not be jobless but it's slave wage's.Im from Denmark and the jobless is 6% and we have a high minimum wage (around 20$).If you work at Mcdonalds full time(37hours a week)then you will have standard living.But if you work at mcdonald's in USA and work the same hours,you won't have the same standard living.so it forces people to have 2+jobs because minimum wage is low.
cesarG222 2 months ago
@cesarG222
I think it's not because of minimum wage but because inflation caused by debt to foreign nations is causing the cost of living to rise, like food and gas prices are soaring.
videomakerman1232 2 months ago
@videomakerman1232 It is very true that inflation is causing the price of living to rise, but that is not the point here. You can still be underpaid when there is zero inflation. (Btw debt to foreign nations doesn't cause inflation).
cesarG222 2 months ago
@cesarG222
No but debts to other nation could cause hyper inflation in prices. That's why many Austrian Economists predict the US will experience hyper inflation. On the contrast, Japan has been experiencing decades of hyper deflation because the debts are held domestically.
videomakerman1232 2 months ago
@videomakerman1232 Inflation is the increase in the money supply. That doesn't occur because of debt to foreign nations. Inflation occurs by the federal reserve creating more money and when they lower interest rates and then bank's creates even more money when they make loan's, through what is called Fractional reserve banking.
cesarG222 2 months ago
Luggage carriers at the airport, gas pumpers and ushers at a theater.Those are bad arguments against minimum wage, nobody need those services!. Not having a minimum wage law is a big problem because then people will be exploited by the greedy corporations. Let's say 5 people wants a job at mcdonald's (they all have equal abilities) then without a minimum wage law then mcdonalds can just hire the one who will work for the least amount pr hour.
cesarG222 2 months ago
"Let's say 5 people wants a job at mcdonald's"
Correct, let's say that's the case. With minimum wage laws that forces employers not to hire them, or to hire one instead of 3. Without them in place, McDonalds wouldn't just be hiring the one person out of the bunch, it would be able to afford to employ more workers. Minimum wage is price fixing, in essence. The skill and value of labor are determined by supply and demand. Simly affixing an artificial price doesn't lower or raise the value of...
regelemihai 2 weeks ago
...the worker, anymore than artificially changing the numbers on a thermostat change the outside temperature.
regelemihai 2 weeks ago
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
Playboysmurf1 2 months ago
Ive got a great idea, lets pay less money, (no lets replace them with automation) to those so called bank genuises who rekon there worth millions, when infact the money there gambling with comes from people like those on the minimum wage, its the rich that are pricing people out of the job market because they dont want to pay a fair rate, but want everything cheaper then yesterday, when infact the cost has gone up, you know the real factor with a minimum wage is there should be a maximum wage...
1kingrich 3 months ago
@1kingrich First of all, you have the RICH and the FILTHY RICH (Elites) confused. The RICH are what's keeping the economy going. And secondly it's not the FILTHY RICHES' fault, and I certainly DON'T mean to include all of them, that the GOVERNMENT let's them have special powers/privileges or gives them special surety or monopoly authority, etc. so they are able to do crazy things that they wouldn't dare do in an open and free economy where competition dictates how you behave not government rule.
saadk3000 2 months ago
@1kingrich And the RICH are most certainly paying more than their fair share if you are talking about increasing taxes on the RICH. These are the people that provide jobs and a boost to the economy in any kind of time. Some already pay around half of their income in taxes and we want more? Blaming the rich who are mostly people or organizations that make honest and genuine money and increasing taxes on them is only going to run them out of business or cause them to shrink in size leaving more
saadk3000 2 months ago
@1kingrich people jobless. Anyway what I am saying is the finger pointing needs to be at government who already has too many powers and seems to decide to give away special benefits to special interests whenever it wants. Yes, the individuals like a few on wall street who committed crimes against the people should be prosecuted for it but then you have to go to the source of why they were able to do those things. More than anything you can't blame all of wall street or all big businesses or
saadk3000 2 months ago
@1kingrich all the rich because most of them are honest people. Prosecute the few dishonest but really blame washington, the white house, the federal government for getting involved with and giving special powers to their special interests not just on wall street but everywhere in the world when history has shown that free markets handle them selves much better than any intervention.
saadk3000 2 months ago
DAMN GROCERS!!
scenesonn 3 months ago
its a double edged sword though because business is governed by self interest... you abolish the minimum wage then skilled trade gets hired for chump change. its a tricky issue.
pauloscum 3 months ago
@pauloscum Thats like saying that if consumers can choose whether or not to buy a product based on the price, then businesses will have to sell their products for free. Also, abolishing the minimum wage will lower the cost of businesses thereby lowering prices for the skilled worker so he can buy more with the money he makes.
david52875 3 months ago
@david52875 yes as i said its a double edged sword... look this is all unnecessary complicated!!! what is money? its barter in essence by proxy... we agree that this paper note is in essence for a set amount of existing commodities... yes real ones... so we agree as a consensus that say.. a goat is worth 4 chickens.. well all of the acrobatics that happen in the middle that we call economics... its bullshit!!!!
pauloscum 3 months ago
IN 2010 58% of American workers were payed hourly wages. (the other 42% are payed salary).
0.15% of America was payed the minimum wage or less.
If the minimum wage was abolished, that .15% would have competition with the 9.4% of the population that was unemployed.
Minimum wage is feeding 4,400,000 people.
Unemployment is starving 29,017,000 people.
theemmettkeegan 3 months ago
theemmettkeegan 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Unless you support unsustainable wars or a welfare state, odds don't look to good.
Ron Paul has been trying to restore sanity for a while.
Granted, you speak more eloquently.
But, again, you don't hold the ideals either party fascinates about.
But Peter Schiff and Ron Paul in Washington??????
2012 would be a great year
theemmettkeegan 3 months ago
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theemmettkeegan 3 months ago
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theemmettkeegan 3 months ago
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theemmettkeegan 3 months ago
Schiff seeks the abolition of the minimum wage, but he does not seem to be interested in whether or not people receive a living wage - sufficient to sustain a viable basic existence including rent, food, clothing, fuel, and so on. He concentrates instead if the sad decline in people pumping gas or carrying groceries for barely $5/hr. Working people need to be generate enough income to survive and minimum wage legislation helps, not hinders, people in that regard
Monstrance23 3 months ago
@Monstrance23 but the thing is the people that would do the below minimum wage they wouldnt be needing to make a living. the usher's were probably just high schoolers looking to make a buck. at first i too thought his argument was how sad that i can no longer get my shopping carried by someone who's not making a living and that is quite appalling but that isnt the argument. but you gota remember if the wage is too low they don't have to do it they're not being forced.
maxgunn555 3 months ago
@Monstrance23 This is how bus boys, waiters, bartenders and others make a living. If labor costs are cheaper that usually means that prices of goods will be cheaper and more money available to the consumer for tipping :) Plus, another upside is the amount of jobs available. This will open unskilled job labor in to the market for those who are under-qualified like most minorities and teenagers. Those with more labor experience will obviously want to negotiate a wage.
pSychOAtDawn 3 months ago
i dont agree with the low skilled wages argument. mcdonalds and movie theatres make more than enough money to pay someone to do those low-skill jobs. no minimum wage would just allow employers to take advantage. i think it would also drive down the median income altogether. we would share a level field with china and india and americans dont want that. get rid of the pointless, greed-driven regulations and free trade agreements, don't drive wages down further then they already are or going.
drummerdummy 4 months ago
I dont think we need more politician what we need is take out the ones that is already there.
What you think can you do by yourself?
Change has to be done from below and not above.
Every 4 years politician come and go, however the shit still the same doesn't matter the country.
Tell me, what you have that anyone in this world hasn't? What you can do that anyone already promised to do? believe me sir you do better job here opening people mind, helping us understand what is going one.
massarde9591 5 months ago
Fuck minimum wage lets just bring back slavery. Lets pass a law that anybody unemployed for more than 2 weeks (unless they have a rich family) must be placed up for sale to the highest bidder. At least this way the unemployed will get fed.
believerornot 5 months ago
@believerornot they already did bring back slavery.....govt schools, working for free (income tax), surveillance society, war, debt............all brought to you by the governments "help".
SonsOfLibertyRiders 4 months ago
Mr Schiff. Do you realize that putting profit before the lives of HUMAN BEINGS makes you psychotic? Please turn yourself into the nearest psychiatric institution before you harm even more people.
believerornot 5 months ago
So says a man who knows he will never have to worry about whether he can pay for his food!
believerornot 5 months ago
Having no minimum wage means companies can't charge ridiculously low wages for human slave-labor jobs, thus I don't have somebody to pump my gas or to wipe my ass after I take a shit. Its a shame we can't take more advantage of poor people, foreigners, and young people. Fuck.
MyOnlyFarph 5 months ago
LMAO... fantastic....no minimum wage means you can get desperate people to clean your windows or build you a fence and pay them so little they have to live on the street. ...but hey ...at least you are giving them a 'job'.
peterjol 5 months ago
@peterjol
You would rather they had no job at all? LMAO man you are dumb
FartyFace 5 months ago
@FartyFace thank to your brilliant mind ......I have become more educated, I shall get some desperate people who can't find a job working for me.. building my fences and cleaning my windows. ..It's so dumb of me to care if I am not paying them enough to live on....I am doing them a favour, it's much better than having no job at all and it must be their own fault if they don't have any more valuable skills.
peterjol 5 months ago
@peterjol no, thank to you I have become the mostest educated:
Giving desperate people a job is a very bad thing and they are much better off being unemployed. 0 dollars an hour is infinitely better than $5/hour. Next time someone comes begging me for a low paying job I will try to explain to them how they are better off not working and waiting for a job that pays really well to come along.
FartyFace 5 months ago
@FartyFace No no ...please keep on being such a good person and paying them a wage they can't live on....as you say at least they are getting 'something' and that must be better than nothing. How could it be wrong?
peterjol 5 months ago
@peterjol
I have a better idea, why not make the minimum wage $100/hour. That way everyone in the country can be rich!!!
Is this a good idea? why or why not. Seriously, I want you to explain it to us.
FartyFace 5 months ago
@FartyFace To be honest I am only messing with you......I couldn't care less about minimum wages or the monetary system itself, I know it cannot be changed in any significant way to make this a better world. The fact is whatever happens it's leading us to an ever worsening future...... I am only interested in the RBE idea proposed by the, Zeitgeist movement and the Venus project.
peterjol 5 months ago
i have listened to your arguments on youtube and elsewhere and i am a fan. but are you out ur fuc*kin mind?!?! that was the most fu*kin insanely short sighted argument for getting rid of MW ever. clearly you have never had to struggle in the lower bracket of the work force. MW is needed because corporations dont know when to stop, and technology has evolved so as to eliminate those retarded examples of lower than MW jobs.. Please TRY AGAIN!!!!
eunit3130 6 months ago
@eunit3130
Sounds like you agree with his point then. MW does in fact destroy jobs. The only difference between you and Pete is that Pete thinks these jobs are worth saving and you think we are better off without them.
Its a choice between higher unemployment but with those that actually have jobs making more money, and lower unemployment but also lower wages. Which one is better? I guess that depends on how good your unemployment benefits are.
FartyFace 5 months ago
@FartyFace
removing minimum wage drives up crime. Is that really a good thing?
believerornot 5 months ago
@believerornot
Unemployment drives up crime.
FartyFace 5 months ago
@FartyFace but without minimum wage, even some of those employed (on wages below minimum required for survival) will resort to crime
believerornot 5 months ago
@believerornot
Even if thats true (which its not), it will be way way WAY less than the increase in crime due to higher unemployment. At least acknowledge that for us. If someone is willing to commit a crime because their paycheck is lower, they will be way more willing to commit a crime if their paycheck is gone entirely.
FartyFace 5 months ago
@FartyFace
No you are completely wrong about everything you say. You obviously no nothing but your own bigotry. I refuse to debate you any more.
believerornot 5 months ago
@believerornot
LoL look at what this tard actually believes. He thinks that having wages reduced by a few dollars per hour will cause people to commit crimes. He also thinks that having wages reduced to ZERO will not cause people to commit crimes.
How fucking retarded do you have to be to think this? by the way its racist as fuck to say that low wage workers are going to go out and commit crimes. You should be ashamed you fucking bigot
FartyFace 5 months ago
@FartyFace do you even know what racism is. brainwashed.
looking trough the half empty glass ,both statements are true, crime will be raised by lowering and dissapearing jobs, if jobs dissapear and those people dont have any new job to realocate their time with ,then yeah that would bring out more crime than just lowering the mid class wages
EPICPokerTV4 5 months ago
@EPICPokerTV4
Good you agree with me then. Nice to know you arent as retarded as believeromot.
FartyFace 5 months ago
I'd would have supported you Peter but I'm in Australia
Holidats 6 months ago
To those of you who are employers and support eliminating MW: you're saying that you think your employers are a financially worthless investment. So why did you hire them in the first place? Either you're a cheap bunch of bastards, or you're entirely stupid and don't know how to handle your money.
cincyblows 6 months ago
In this economy, about all the jobs one can find are low-paying ones. All I'm trying to do is survive. Now some idiot teabagger wants to eliminate MW to "spur economic growth". Really? Who the hell is going to work for $3.00/hr? Who can afford to do that? You'd see a HUGE rush to the welfare ranks if MW were abolished. Besides, for every wonderful new sub-MW job created, employers would have to purchase more workman's comp. And we all know how much employers hate paying overhead, don't we?
cincyblows 6 months ago
@cincyblows Teenagers and/or desperately poor people would accept those jobs. What you continuously fail to understand is that a job that pays 3 dollars/hour will not raise it's wages to the MW if MW laws were to be enacted. No, that job would legislated out of existence and that worker you care so much about will be unemployed because no employer can pay a worker more than what he brings to the employer.
contd.
crazypants88 6 months ago
@cincyblows contd. Also there's much greater incentive to live on welfare when all the jobs you ( an unskilled worker) would have had a chance to be employed by are now nowhere to be seen or found since they're pretty much illegal now. At least without the MW they could have a job if they wanted to but with MW they're pushed towards welfare regardless of their willingness to work.
crazypants88 6 months ago
@crazypants88 Why do you assume I lack skills (other than social)? In this economy it isn't unusual to see people with MBAs working the drive-thru. I'd have to go on welfare (I hate the thought, but...) if MW were abolished in this economy. We both know employers will be all too happy to "create jobs" that pay $4.00/hr -hardly a liveable wage. What are we to do? Work 100 hours/week? I'm getting ready to return to grad school in order to get away from this mess, but others will seek welfare.
cincyblows 6 months ago
@cincyblows And yes, I'm relying on student loans -unless Bachmann and Radtke decide to eliminate those as well. Something about those two smacks too much of "caste system" for my liking.
cincyblows 6 months ago
Hey Schiff, When MW is eliminated and wages drop under $5.00/hr, and all those wonderful new jobs are created, how much extra is an employer going to have to pay in workman's comp for each new hire? Because it gets expensive quickly. Uh-oh. Now you have overhead that has to be trimmed. Guess how that happens? By getting rid of some of those workers. So much for all that Utopian "job creation" whose intent is strictly to make phony conservatives look good at election time.
cincyblows 6 months ago
Since you think low-wage workers aren't worth much, Mr. Schiff, then why do you hire them in the first place? You certainly don't mind the amount of productivity you get from them, do you?
cincyblows 6 months ago
Promise to create more jobs if MW is eliminated. Then, when MW is gone, realize you CAN'T afford to hire all those extra workers due to the massive workman's comp you'd have to provide for each and every employee you would like to have had. Finally, get drunk and fall into despair as millions of workers realize they have to go on welfare at your expense, since they can't afford to work for $3.00/hr. What are you crying about? This is what you wanted.
cincyblows 6 months ago
@independence4wales again, it was his example
Low-skilled labor doesn't exist to the magnitude 50years ago anymore, but low (or "wrong") skilled workers exists still plenty. Hence supply&demand suggests drastic wage falls far below productivity. The problem is, that workers are not goods which we can just supply less next year. They are there and supplying work for 50 years. What should they do? Living on food stamps, or work for less than they earn their employers? Minimum wage could help them.
SmartPappnase 6 months ago
Really why can't we make it so you can opt of out minimum wage yourself? I really don't see any problem with that idea- if somebody at all does, please explain to me what the problem is (not sarcasm, I really want to know).
themeleed 6 months ago
@themeleed There is no problem with that, it's just then the unions wouldn't have the monopolistic control over the labor force like it does today.
crazypants88 6 months ago
@jeffiek OK, to be fair lets include costs of capital. Let's say the restaurant buys an expensive dishwasher for 10.000$. Now he takes a loan for 10% per year which makes 1000$ of interest payment per year. Alternatively he can employ 2 workers (and that is a conservative estimate) for 500$ per year. Assuming machine and employee are equally efficient and the employee will work 230 days for 8 hour's yields 500$/(8*230) = 0.27$ per hour. So 20cent sounds not entirely unrealistic.
SmartPappnase 6 months ago
@SmartPappnase Your taking the argument too literally. The simple point is that the government should not be stopping people from working for a wage that is acceptable to them.
independence4wales 6 months ago
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SmartPappnase 6 months ago
@jeffiek Than maybe you can enlight me how a dishwasher can earn more. It was Schiff's example with the dishwashers.
Automatic dishwashers use nowadays less resources than washing dishes by hand does. So wages should be negative. This is just a job which will never come back, however you decrease wages (or maybe forbid automatic dishwashers???). The same is true if you compare costs to one-way plastic plates. If you wanna change that you need environmental protection laws. ;)
SmartPappnase 6 months ago
It is most certainly true, that people who provide less productivity than minimum wage won't get hired. However, like he also mentioned is that the wage depends on SUPPLY & DEMAND! That means if there is an excess in low skilled labor, salaries will go down dramatically independent of their productivity. Whether this will sufficiently increase employment is at least questionable. Should a dishwasher earn 20cent in order to compete with a machine or plastic plates to make that happen?
SmartPappnase 6 months ago
@SmartPappnase "20cent"
A dead give away that you're a person not interested in truth.
jeffiek 6 months ago
You can't legislate economic shortcuts. Period.
SDS4BO 6 months ago
The only thing the minimum wage accomplishes is that mom and pop can no longer run their own businesses because the labor costs them too much. It creates job shortages, and that's the cause why there are no jobs.
SDS4BO 6 months ago
Europac clown
shotsky94 6 months ago
@shotsky94 I'll bite. Are you able to say why you used the word clown?
independence4wales 6 months ago
Did Schiff win?
david52875 6 months ago
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baningkoy 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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NewbWorksDwarven 7 months ago
as long as interest groups keep controlling the congress of America(the best congress money can buy) there will be no change to the minimum wage laws, it would make too much sense. WAKE UP AMERICA RON PAUL 2012
chrbess9 7 months ago
@nfwvideo1 your lacking some intelligence... and 8 year old has rights and a limited-government would have authority to protect children.. businesses should be able to discriminate because they should have a right to go about their business as they want. It's called freedom.
chrbess9 7 months ago
The minimum wage is the result of white unions being undercut by black laborers.
Y2kplaya92 7 months ago
@nfwvideo1
Why not? SO LONG AS, he's willing, you can't FORCE him, if you didn't've means to support children then you should'n't've had any; it is erroneous to blame businesses for child-labor, what about their parents' responsibility? In a lot of cases of child-labor, if they don't work then they don't eat & die, is that somehow better?
Private businesses have right to choose who they want to hire, otherwise it'd infringe their freedom while it is PUBLIC SECTOR that CAN'T discriminate.
lomocan 8 months ago
I just don't understand, Australia's minimum's wage is the highest it's ever been, yet its unemployment rate is as low as it's ever been for decades! Sure, being a major commodity exporter to China, the rising commodity prices would have helped. But the Austrian School states that the number of jobs should decrease as the min. wage is raised, so how do you explain the phenomenon that this is not the case for Australia? I just don't understand.
albertnz1 8 months ago
Minimum Wage is a violation of people's personal freedom & their right to work. I mean if an individual WANTS to accept a job below minimum wage then no govt or anyone else should've the right to deny him & keep him unemployed.
And if MW is so great,why not keep it at $50/hr or $100/hr? That'd make prices of goods/services skyrocket along with skyrocketing unemployment as no business would be able to hire any employee who's not worth $50 or $100. This impact stays true at ANY level of MW
lomocan 8 months ago
lol your old n stupid :)
living in a bubble!
Those types of jobs are usless to people who need health care n have a family. What if you couldn't afford education beyond hs. Then your forced at 45yo to either compete with hs kids happy to take 3.50/hr or you comitting crime (like splitting wiggs of old manipulators like urself.)
joelsmith76 8 months ago
@nfwvideo1 The homeless veteran is not smart because he could potentially save every penny of his income while the armed forces supports all his living expenses. If one does not go drinking like a sailor, one could learn to save on food provided by the armed forces. Don't go for extras.
doubleestark 8 months ago
@nfwvideo1 Everyone has a choice of whether or not to accept a job depending upon the work or the wage. Whether one decides it to be disrespectful is their own opinion. Work is work, and what can put food on the table is respectful in my book. Whether someone makes $50/hr or 5$/hr, everyone needs to eat.
Theard 8 months ago
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850Nexus 9 months ago
This guy has no clue what he is talking about.
TheCaliCapitalist 9 months ago
@itachi705 if by stupid you mean I can read a history book, I guess so. The assertion that the minimum wage dissolved all these low paying jobs is inconsistent with the historical facts he leverages in favor of his opinion.
Businesses naturally gravitate towards the most profitable operations, which generally are the cheapest. Guys pumping gas didn't go away over wages, they went away because self service is cheaper than anything they were paying those guys (unless they work for free).
TheSuperspade 9 months ago
@TheSuperspade
" Guys pumping gas didn't go away over wages, they went away because self service is cheaper than anything they were paying those guy"
You mean people were so stupid back then that they didn't realize that "self-service is cheaper"? Are you kidding me! General living standards & profits were much lower back then compared to now so, if anything, people back then would've been more receptive to cutting costs than they're now. Fact is those jobs outpriced themselves due to MW.
lomocan 8 months ago
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What a slew of stupid arguments strung together.
The first national minimum wage law was in 1938. After 1938 there were ushers, people who pumped your gas, etc. so it can't be that minimum wage eliminated those jobs since they continued to exist for decades after the minimum wage was established nationally. I guess facts don't matter...
TheSuperspade 9 months ago
What a slew of stupid arguments strung together.
The first national minimum wage law was in 1938. After 1938 there were ushers, people who pumped your gas, etc. so it can't be that minimum wage eliminated those jobs since they continued to exist for decades after the minimum wage was established nationally. I guess facts don't matter...
TheSuperspade 9 months ago
@TheSuperspade Are you really that stupid?
itachi705 9 months ago
This one guy at my work, who is 45 years old, useless, only knows how to clean engine parts but could never put an engine together. He thinks minimum wage should be the national average wage of $40711. LMFAO.
GMHGTO 9 months ago
@nfwvideo1 "who is only worth a dollar an hr?"
When my mother retired, she didn't like being alone (father died), so she took a job at the hospital talking to the patients. It was volunteer work and didn't pay anything at all. She was happy keeping busy and the patients were happy too; she liked helping people. If they paid her $1/hr (or $2 or $3), I'm sure she would have taken it, either way she didn't feel disrespected at all....but, because of the MW law, they can't pay her anything!
jjenson2006 9 months ago 2
@nfwvideo1 Your minimum wage is the lowest amount of money you agree to receive for your services. If you agree to accept $1.00/hr, it means you believe that is what your labor is worth and who knows better than you? No one is required to give you a job. Jobs are a privilege. If the government makes it a law that you cannot receive less than $5/hr, A company will not hire you because it wouldn't be cost effective to pay someone $5/hr for $1/hr worth of labor.
jjenson2006 9 months ago
Even European nations (some of them, I think) have age waivers for the minimum wage.
Why can't we have a dependency waiver on the min wage? If you're a dependent of someone, you can work at whatever wage you like.
Of course that's not how kids see it. I know a girl from Oregon who "likes her state's $8.25 min wage". She's unemployed. She can't connect the dots.
jrsub3 9 months ago 2
These business owners are so fucking stupid. By their logic making a penny an hour is better then no money but fail to see that its still bad. You need to make your wages good its that simple.
codename7000 10 months ago
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MrSilverInvestment 10 months ago
Peter - I work in a supermarket and I bag groceries and always offer take them out to the car. Also, there are gas station attendees that pump the gas for me. I live in Oregon
BMANZZS 10 months ago
@BMANZZS It's not as bad in America as it is in my home country Germany. We don't have people who bag your groceries or goods. We also pump our own gas. It's like this everywhere in Europe. Germany might not have an official minimum wage, but union benefits are applied to everyone in Germany, which means underemployment has become a serious problem, since companies are reluctant to hire young workers full time. Minimum wage laws and unions do reduce employment, it's just how it is.
groam6666 10 months ago
@BMANZZS Is it legal in Oregon to pump your own gas?
jokelab 9 months ago
@jokelab I have heard it is not legal. An attendant has to do it.
Theard 8 months ago
He said wage should be determined by productivity. Yes, he's right, but hasn't productivity increased? Have wages increased in relation to productivity? No. In fact, the average worker used to make about 20x and their boss. The boss or ceo now mkaes somehting like 200x the average worker. That's where the money to pay higher wages went; right into the pockets of the guys at the top. Wages can be increased in many, if not, most markets.
Slugg329 10 months ago
Is it really the minimum wage wiping out these jobs or is it large greedy companies pushing to improve profits and growth each year? Peter talks about people pumping gas for you, that's not small business, you think Shel/BP can't afford to pay people minimum wage? Mimimum wage is there to stop people being exploited and to give people a LIVING wage.
HONDOMACLEAN83 11 months ago
@HONDOMACLEAN83 I would argue that minimum wage laws are in effect because of corporations lobbying the government. They can easily afford minimum wage but their competitors might not. Also MW laws reduce the production of cheap goods which would primarily help poor people. For example if want to produce low quality cutlery for a very cheap price, I might not be able to because the costs of employing people would excede my profits.
contd.
crazypants88 10 months ago
@crazypants88 I find it amusing that in your arugment you use 'small business' as a victim of the minimum wage. I'm guessing you live in America, where small business doesn't exist. The vast, VAST majority of people in your country are employed by large corporations who make ridiculous profits for there wall street share holders. Also, that's why manufacturing jobs are shipped off to China. You have no idea what the working conditions are like there, and you certainly would not work for that.
HONDOMACLEAN83 10 months ago
@crazypants88 cont. also find it amusing that it is the rich and middle class that champion your point of view, not poor people themselves. If poor people were out marching for the abolition of the minimum wage then I may have a different point of view. However, this isn't the case and NEVER will be.
HONDOMACLEAN83 10 months ago
@HONDOMACLEAN83 Honestly the only people I'm aware who are for the abolition of the MW are libertarians. Most of libertarians I know are at best middle class. Non of this is pertinent to the discussion, really.
If black people would march in favour of reinstituting slavery, would you then favour slavery?
crazypants88 10 months ago
@HONDOMACLEAN83 No I'm Icelandic actually. And small businesses are by no means non-existant in the US, they're decreasing in number, sure. But they still do exist.
I'm not going to deny that by our western standards working conditions in China are lower then what we would expect, but then again their becoming a 1st world very rapidly. Those people take these jobs because they're easier and pay better then their previous jobs, which were mostly subsistance farming I'm guessing.
crazypants88 10 months ago
@HONDOMACLEAN83 Also wealth accumulation takes time. The western world has had what, a century plus to accumulate the wealth we see today. Now China as with India is doing the same thing.
crazypants88 10 months ago
@HONDOMACLEAN83 contd.
Therefore because of MW, my business never starts and poorer people would be forced to pay for more expensive cutlery.
Speaking of exploitation, wouldn't you call it exploitation to deny a poor unemployed person an income simply because it's lower than the MW. That person would much rather have a below MW income than an income of zero.
crazypants88 10 months ago
this guy is exactly right....i use to be a liberal, then studied up a lil on libertarian theories...and they make total sence and they signs that libertarians are right is in plain sight....everytime you raise the min wage, unemployment goes up....this is not to defend the rich...raise min wage..small biz hurt, lay ppl off...therefore hurting lower class more than raising it helps..think about it.
TheRickyp83 11 months ago
The employer just doesn't pay minimum wage...there are taxes added on that the employer must pay!!! Until you run a business, you have no concept of the cost and running a business. Not all business's are greedy corporate bastards! We treat our employee's very well, we pay benefits and we are a small business. But if we were not forced to pay min wage...I could hire some h/s workers this summer part-time...but M/W is now ruining that option..so NO job's!!! Doesn't make sense.
twistedsister180 11 months ago
You are such an upper middle class tosser
jethro83 11 months ago
lol they dont have people bagging grocerys any more. my friend started out as a bagger now hes a manager. i see low wage work as a foot in the door. you cant live off min wage but if you work hard than you will move up.
itsjoeedinger 1 year ago
so we should stop progress in order that a looser can get a job as an usher or a bag boy.
519ist 1 year ago
@519ist Theoretcially, there is no such thing as a loser anyway, if one takes a deterministic view of the universe. But as far as progess goes, if people are being pushed out of jobs onto the street, is that progress? Great! Let them live in front of your house, not mine asshole!
NBTY4ever 11 months ago
@NBTY4ever The whole fiscal system is broken, 75% of jobs can be replaced with machines(with current technology) and the system will continue to show its cracks year after year. The first ppl that get canned are the most unimportant ones...and booting ppl on the street is progress under the current monetary system. dumbass
519ist 11 months ago
@519ist Wow. Imprerssive! Im amazed your first reaction wasnt "Yeah man...there really is such a thing as a loser!"
NBTY4ever 11 months ago
Most conservatives say, if you do not have a college degree, then you should not complain about making minimum wage. Many years ago during the Reagan times, Nancy Reagan complained about the American workers not being able to read. But she was say reading at college level.
patsaxon 1 year ago
minimum wage should be 10$ if you cant operate a business with a 10 dollar wage stay home.
dave777blaster 1 year ago
He should run for president, that way he can pardon his tax evading jailed dad
WindySum 1 year ago
Kings who don't share the wealth with the peasants, eventually get their heads chopped off.
Not payed enough to eat? How about Steak Tartare a la Schiff.
WindySum 1 year ago
Hearing these people babbling on that they should be able to pay people as little as they like, is like watching a fat man at a barbecue taking most of the burgers, then squealing like a spoiled brat after being told he must give the man doing the cooking at least one of the burgers back.
bolloxinator 1 year ago
so what if people dont work. pay them to stay home or go to school and become engineers and scientists. collectively as a society their is nothing that says we need all humans doing something to achieve a better world. should we not automate the picking of all fruits and vegetables or automate the production of all material things just so large groups of people will have something to do. robots and machines are the future for most labor.
hobodevil 1 year ago
You obviously don't get it.
he owns a business, he actually hires people.. he's an economist...
He's light years ahead of how you perceive the market.
plenty of low skilled workers out there who don't get hired because of minimum wage.
a 16 year old kid in high school can't get hired because its too expensive to hire him.
can't build his resume, can't get experience.
He doesn't need a living wage.... he's 16 and living at home.
use your head
HandyMan101 1 year ago 39
@HandyMan101 Maybe he should apply for volunteer work then.
codename7000 10 months ago
@HandyMan101 I disagree. Take Wal-Mart for example. The Walton family has BILLIONS of dollars, each member has about $18 billion each; making it about $90 BILLION combined. That's right, $90 billion.
That's absurd. That means that most of the profits are going to THEM, not the company. Now really, does a family really need $90 billion? That's just pure greed. They can trickle that down to employees, instead of THEMSELVES.
It's Slave Wage.
Overfl00d 9 months ago
@Overfl00d I don't understand your logic at all. Why run a business, out of charity? No, the business is about making money for those who run it. Everything else is fluff. Saying that somebody must pay more to whoever is retarded, nobody forces people to work for Walmart. Quit.
romanmir01 8 months ago
@romanmir01 Who says it's about charity? It's about ethics and morality. Their pockets are overflowing with so much cash, it's almost pathetic.
A business is not just as you say, being greedy and keeping all the money to yourself; it's about the overall contribution to society. Of course running a business, the owner should be making profit, but not at the expense of screwing your employees with slave wage - which is what they really are.
Of course this world will be filled with greedy people.
Overfl00d 8 months ago
@Overfl00d
"A business is not just as you say, being greedy and keeping all the money to yourself" - of-course it is. However a business that is not doing the right thing for the market will not make any money. Business is about making as much money as possible. In absence of government screwing with the economy and creating monopolies and printing money, businesses become wealthy by making the best offer to the customer
Business adds to society plenty - products, services, jobs. Good enough?
romanmir01 8 months ago
@Overfl00d
"The Walton family has BILLIONS of dollars, each member has about $18 billion each"
omg & what do they do with every penny they own?
1.They either spend it, which then forms the basis for the wages/salaries of those involved in producing goods/services they buy
2.They save & invest it directly or indirectly (thru banks) which creates more jobs, more goods/services; & more goods/services = lower prices for EVERYONE
"slave wage" is misnomer as slaves can't quit or get PAID
lomocan 8 months ago
I agree. The minimum wage law is, again, the result of too much government intervention. Here the U.S. government is stepping into our private lives touting its horn saying "We're protecting you from yourself". If someone willingly wants to work for $3.00 an hour, then they should be allowed to. This will keep business costs down and then businesses can afford to sell their products for less making the $3.00 you make per hour have more value.
ohmahh 7 months ago
@ohmahh That's a very good point!
crazypants88 7 months ago
@ohmahh unfortunately we live in a society and an economic system that is all about making profits. So while this is a great IDEA, it would never be implemented. The wages would be dropped but the prices of products would stay the same.
Spatulater 7 months ago
@Spatulater Good point, many corporations do in fact focus primarily on maximizing profits. It is also reasonable to assume that such a substantial decrease in the amount being paid in wages would in fact add to corporate profits. This is a good thing to some extent. However, to assume that every corporation would simply keep the same prices and not try to lower their shelf prices to move in on competition is unrealistic. Price competition would most certainly drag shelf prices down.
ohmahh 7 months ago
@HandyMan101 Lets analyse the grocery store example Peter brought up. If you rid of the min wage law, all cashiers and baggers and store workers are going to make less, no unions=more profit for the store owners=the wages decline overall= working class has less money to spend= you increase economic inequality =he store also sells less for that matter. Mark my word Peter is wrong on this one
MAZDAKPRODUCTION 7 months ago
@HandyMan101 I wouldn't insult Schiff by calling him an economist. People might associate the talking head economists on the box with the Tour de Force of common sense that is Peter Schiff
independence4wales 6 months ago
@HandyMan101 amen to that
independence4wales 6 months ago
OMG, I just got to the end. You actually think it's alright for people to work for a dollar or two an hour while you beg for our donations?! You disgusting pig. Handouts are fine for you but a living wage isn't fine for Americans. Typical Republican. Welfare for the rich. Nothing for anyone else.
siszam 1 year ago
Well hell Peter. Why not go back to child labor and slaves? I mean, the rich want cheap labor. They want to pay the least amount with no oversight or laws. Let's just round up some helpless people and make them work for us. That's what people like you really want. Society and decent people have, thank God, prevented people like you from enslaving others for profit. You may be right on some things but on this subject you absolutely sicken me. You can tell your God is money.
siszam 1 year ago
@siszam
That is a totally ignorant statement please go review REAL WORLD history & the basics of economics & math not the govt indoctrinated books & media
swu880 1 year ago
you want people to be doing unskilled labor? How about encouraging people to get higher education and rise above the meaningless jobs...
jojomcbean 1 year ago
I'm all for paying people what they're worth. Maybe we should take a look at that, see what people do and what they get for doing it, and call a public referendum on the result.
Let's start with the very top earners, and work down.
London2272 1 year ago
The argument against a living wage has to be the flimsiest, most pretentious pile of horseshit ever shat out of a Conservative asshole. The veneer is transparent, but what's under it?
"I want to make money money money, a whole shitload of it, and I don't want to pay the workforce to do it but I have to, so I want to pay as little as I can get away with."
I'd like to see this idiot survive one fucking day on a minimum wage. And if he was paid 'what he's worth', he'd be on welfare.
freddo27 1 year ago
@freddo27 you so right my brother the conservative all way trying to tick our
with some bullshit why do pepole fall for this bullshit like less government
so the corporate culture will have all the power and the pepole will have no power
pepole do not fall for this its bullshit and they puting it your face like we are fools
failont01 1 year ago
@failont01 "Corporate culture" would not be possible without "big government". Regulations almost always hurt small businesses and small farms while empowering mega corporations_ Case in point Obamacare,. which will be a burden for every small business just trying to survive the depression, while mega corporations like Mcdonalds and Jack in the Box, among many others, are exempt _ On top of that higher taxes prevent new, potentially more ethical businesses from entering the market_
evandonghue2 1 year ago
@evandonghue2 Are you in favour of laws to ensure the big guns like McDonalds pay a living wage, with exemption for small, struggling businesses, or are you just throwing small businesses into the mix to give the argument some credibility? I see 'ethical' concerns in there too. Trust me, getting Joe Public on side will take quite a miracle, and definitely something much more crafty than that. He's the poor sucker who does all the work. He knows.
London2272 1 year ago
@London2272 Your class warfare stance is misguided_ The best thing any poor person could do, is find a rich person to teach them a thing or two about money matters_ The real evil in the world is using violence to solve your problems_ Minimum wage is wrong because it is an act of aggression_ I don't like mega corporations as they are the government now_ London2272 we have to come up with non violent or non government (they are the same after all) solutions to the problem of poverty_
evandonghue2 1 year ago
@evandonghue2 I thought so. You want emancipation for the already free. Leave those big guns alone, eh? Hey, that's a good idea, let's have all the working people go to Beverley Hills and ask for advice. If you have someone working to create wealth for you, yet you let him live in abject poverty, you're definitely causing violence toward him, if we use your definition of 'violence' vis-a-vis one person using force against another.
Interesting how you're trying hard to look progressive though.
London2272 1 year ago
@London2272 Im not trying to look like anything_ Im trying to live non hypocritical life, If you want others to stop stealing, then you must also not steal_ If you want to end violence you must put down the guns/laws_ You see, once you bandage over a problem with state violence it never really solves anything and you are robbed of the opportunity to really solve the problem, be it poverty or whatever_ Government solutions are ruining any hope of a good job market/solution_
evandonghue2 1 year ago 7
@London2272 " If you have someone working to create wealth for you, yet you let him live in abject poverty, you're definitely causing violence toward him."
This is not violence unless of course he/she is being held at gun point at work_ This worker should seek new employment instead of petitioning the government to give him/her a raise at the end of a gun barrel_ I've worked low wage jobs, I've quit low wage jobs_ Its called free choice, don't allow yourself to be pushed around_ Demand more
evandonghue2 1 year ago
@freddo27 You talk as if workers can't tell their employers to "take this job and shove it". You can't chant "power to the people" then tell the "people" they have no power because their corporate masters own them_ Fact is i've told many former employers to fu*k off, demanding better wages and/or treatment_ People are powerful_ Stick up for yourself... Trust me, you will be more successful than the government_
evandonghue2 1 year ago
@evandonghue2 @evandonghue2 You talk as if there are plenty of jobs out there right now.
freddo27 1 year ago
@freddo27 Unemployment is high... So you want the government to stick a gun in my employers face to force him to pay me more>? Thanks but no thanks... I think I will look for a more logical solution_
evandonghue2 1 year ago
@evandonghue2 If he's got a job for you, it''s the only job you can find, and because of conservative thinking you've been forced to take any old job to get off welfare (with a metaphorical gun in your face), and he wants to pay you such a shitty wage that you'd never survive on it, yep, I'm more than happy to see the law make him pay you enough to live on. Just like I'm more than happy to see any other traders prevented from ripping you off. Being wealthy doesn't exempt bosses from laws.
freddo27 1 year ago
@freddo27 Laws are violence_ Also remember, if the government really wanted me to have more money, then they would stop stealing half of it though slavish labor taxes_ Stop being naive, the government does not care about you, it literally farms you for tax dollars, they want to see you broke, dependent and weak_ Well im not weak and I don't need any john wayne, uncle sam, law making, gun point'n, thieving goon protecting me from my employer whom I value/respect because he pays me_
evandonghue2 1 year ago
@evandonghue2 Those who take the most out of society can rightly be expected to put a fair amount back in. Living in this society has given them all the wealth they could ever need, but it's never enough, is it? They want to take and take without restraint, milk society for all its worth, squirrel money away, but ask them to put anything substantial back in and they get out of their prams.Make them pay a fair wage to those producing their wealth, and off they go again. It won't cut it any more.
freddo27 1 year ago