What are you talking about him not having a good voice.. His voice is great.. He conveys emotions for days. He hits his notes in right keys and has an awesome screaming voice. If anything he is underrated as a singer. Also his guitar playing is phenomenal man he makes me so jealous with his leads they are powerful and emotional and is fluent on the sythesizer and drum machine. Not to mention He pretty much writes everything I think with the exception of drums. He is legend for a reason.
the odd sounds are fx processors but the end i am not sure of i thought the chinese guy was the lead no it was billy they were so much better than zwan god they sucked smashing pumpkins ruled and the sound at the end is a movie song sent through a distorting device and chopping the same part into seperate sounds can not prove but that is a song from old movie love, william "the joker"
I saw them on this tour and they opened with this song. When the distortion kicked in it was and remains the greatest rock and roll moment I have witnessed live. Simply mega.
otro temon de mi infancia. gracias hermano por tener gustos mas alla del regayton...se cayo arnet, pero como siempre vivo al filo del peligro me colgee de otra señal. x lo q oi q dicen q dicen el problema no es aislado. hasta el martes o miercoles mahomeno nola? nes vomos a la misma hora en el mismo canal. bai
Billy Corgan is the perfect example that you don't need to be a great singer to be an artist, it takes vision and passion, Smashing Pumpkins has its place in music history and Billy Corgan as songwriter is one of a kind. One of the best albums ever heard by my ears.
@nicolibri I agree. I think that the esteemed colleagues at my local rock and roll institute took an inside poll and nominated The Smashing Pumpkins as the only American band with genuine sould and rock and roll spirit. I think that it just goes to show that practice makes perfect. It just goes to show that you don't have to have a great voice to be heard. Or even having a girl as your bass player.
Pumpkins had their badass studio version songs taken off of Youtube so you wil buy them on I-tunes N' Such.......Dont!!! Now dont get me wrong S.P is badass, but you shouldn't reward bad behavior. Youtube is a SHARE site. Learn to share Corgan!!!!
@MissouriGuerrilla - it could easily have been their label or publisher instead of Corgan enforcing the copyright. Good job on confronting the BS ownership culture, but get a bit more informed and direct that rage a little more ... everyone will be better for it.
@kerpunktehmunk Is that what you believe? Search "Cherub Rock" not a single video with the album recording, not even a damn lyrics video. I choose to believe in logic, Corgan is a notorious asshole and I believe he had more to do with the removal of the songs over Virgin. Seriously the Virgin songs are still all over Youtube
that is epic beyond words, better than beethoven, this is love, magic, night and day. I love when the distortion quicks in and billys telling us words, opening his heart with that wall of noise backing him up.. and that drumming.... amazing, love it and anyone who gets this song, this song will never fade
@nicklazzarinirocks I honestly feel blessed to be able to get so much out of the smashing pumpkins music! So many people are just ignorant to how amazing they really were. I hear this and it just hits home for me! Siamese dream is my favorite album of all time and has been since i was like 10 years old! I love a lot of different bands from many different genres of music, but the pumpkins will always hold a place in my heart. For that i feel blessed!!!!
I think this was from a German concert. And if I'm not mistaken, I still have this full concert on VHS somewhere. I wonder how I could convert it to digital...
Smashing Pumpkins grow on you big style, i used to hate this song, hummer and Mayonaise. My favorites were Today, Cherub Rock and Siva, but now its the other way round i fucking love this song haha and Hummer and Mayonaise and pretty much all of the albums up to Adore, i especially like Pisces Iscariot, Spaced for the win :)
And yep, definitely Germany... but this was '93 and not '94, if I'm not mistaken. SP's performance of "Geek U.S.A." from this same show can be seen in Vieuphoria.
I am not some crazy drug addict, in fact i barely even smoke weed anymore... but I think that a problem with modern rock music today is that too many bands today lack any kind of depth to their music. My theory is that I seriously think not enough musicians in rock have had a true, beautiful psychedelic experience (namely LSD, the drug that changed the music world on a dime)-- and it shows.
Might sound crazy, but few of the bands I hear today are capable of true psychedelia... can't fake it!!!
wierd how most pumpkins fans 2 fave songs are usually soma and mayonaise! the two songs which james iha wrote the guitar parts for!! hhmmm interesting. just a pity billy didnt allow james to contribute more, james tender little guitar parts worked really well with billys songwriting, cud've had more great songs like this!!
Hey, I lost my shaggy dog around the year of this video, now I know where he went - he left me to watch a Smashing Pumpkins gig!! (see 1:00 bottom left)
yea kurt cobain even said in an interview good music is good music and he always thought of his band being/sounding new wave just heavier but the same themes, and the godawful media put the grunge label on every band that came out in the 90s
Comment removed
FrancescaMuntoni 3 days ago in playlist Altri video di Quatzequackle
la mia canzone live preferita in assoluto!
evemanson 2 weeks ago
Beautiful solo guys, I'm gonna try and learn this
Elthehablo 2 weeks ago
3:40!!
adamacote 3 weeks ago
wow this looks like a 70's show i love it :)
H0wlinPelleAlmqvist 3 weeks ago
What the fuck is up with that ending music?
htfussman32 3 weeks ago
WHO WEAR SHORTS SHORTS ? JIMMY CHAMBERLIN! :)
luca745021 1 month ago 2
one last kiss, good night. </3
dreastar 1 month ago
RIP Mom, who left me last Christmas eve morning.
ammittei 1 month ago 3
Could use some Somas right now.
angiecfrmthebay 1 month ago
I get the impression that Jimmy liked playing this one
rswc55 1 month ago
@rswc55 Haha! Yeah, sad...
Elthehablo 1 month ago
Comment removed
ammittei 1 month ago
The first part of the solo is like...a scream
Dthunder240 1 month ago
What are you talking about him not having a good voice.. His voice is great.. He conveys emotions for days. He hits his notes in right keys and has an awesome screaming voice. If anything he is underrated as a singer. Also his guitar playing is phenomenal man he makes me so jealous with his leads they are powerful and emotional and is fluent on the sythesizer and drum machine. Not to mention He pretty much writes everything I think with the exception of drums. He is legend for a reason.
Tfmusicmaker 2 months ago 5
i remember the pumpkins at the riv that year they changed my life!
29mickey 2 months ago
the odd sounds are fx processors but the end i am not sure of i thought the chinese guy was the lead no it was billy they were so much better than zwan god they sucked smashing pumpkins ruled and the sound at the end is a movie song sent through a distorting device and chopping the same part into seperate sounds can not prove but that is a song from old movie love, william "the joker"
bauhaus2121 2 months ago
soz flashback
DistortioNau 2 months ago
Geez billy get ova urself, we all know ur the man, sometimes it takes more than that ffs
DistortioNau 2 months ago
ive watched this video several times. but what the fucking hell is that fucking sound in the fucking end?
cezlab 2 months ago
@cezlab I used to have that show on video, that song at the end was a transition to Geek U.S.A. Wish I still had that tape...
lukecyrus 2 months ago
Alta banda, buenos recuerdos me trae :)
fretsonfire18 3 months ago
One of the best fucking bands from chicago EVER! & I should know cause i'm FROM Chicago! ^_^
wolfgirl140 3 months ago
fug u nikla
rtucker1984 3 months ago
I saw them on this tour and they opened with this song. When the distortion kicked in it was and remains the greatest rock and roll moment I have witnessed live. Simply mega.
completeinssolutions 3 months ago
when the distortion kicks in... omg
WhiteHotPro 3 months ago
This performance fucking rocked my socks off. I think I had an orgasm in there somewhere too.
JollyHolly1 3 months ago
Just saw them play this at the Fox friday night. WOW. I started crying
becanshrman 3 months ago
otro temon de mi infancia. gracias hermano por tener gustos mas alla del regayton...se cayo arnet, pero como siempre vivo al filo del peligro me colgee de otra señal. x lo q oi q dicen q dicen el problema no es aislado. hasta el martes o miercoles mahomeno nola? nes vomos a la misma hora en el mismo canal. bai
feoeo 3 months ago
Billy Corgan is the perfect example that you don't need to be a great singer to be an artist, it takes vision and passion, Smashing Pumpkins has its place in music history and Billy Corgan as songwriter is one of a kind. One of the best albums ever heard by my ears.
nicolibri 3 months ago 2
@nicolibri I agree. I think that the esteemed colleagues at my local rock and roll institute took an inside poll and nominated The Smashing Pumpkins as the only American band with genuine sould and rock and roll spirit. I think that it just goes to show that practice makes perfect. It just goes to show that you don't have to have a great voice to be heard. Or even having a girl as your bass player.
allaboutdatGDA 3 months ago
so fucking amazing.
kyrib 3 months ago
truely one of the greatest bands ever
blacksabbath812 4 months ago
@blacksabbath812 you're not wrong there!!!
ElsolraSaul 4 months ago
lovin billys guitar, both the physical guitar and the noise he creates with it
spacedoutandbored 4 months ago
BEST !!!!!!!!!! FOR EVER !!!!!!!
czucha 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Watch this video it'll blow your mind. Just type this in after .com
/watch?v=UvOBIy1P8Do&feature=related
Neal432 4 months ago
Wish these guys would properly get back together! This is the shit!
zeroyon223 4 months ago
Great!
EpicBundy 5 months ago
BEST 90's band. Nothing can compare!
Tool19781 5 months ago
dang... why doesn't he play like that anymore?
this is my #1 fav song of all times. memories. my year 1995.
everything was so intense.
thank you!
Pacafeliz 5 months ago
@Pacafeliz because james iha wrote this song and he is no longer in the band
Bryguy2468 4 months ago
Jimmy Chamberlin <3
Ithinkthisworks 5 months ago
Nothing will ever compare to the pumpkins...
zcornett 6 months ago
2 of my favs were Soma and Mayonaise without a doubt
julianuknow 6 months ago
Pumpkins had their badass studio version songs taken off of Youtube so you wil buy them on I-tunes N' Such.......Dont!!! Now dont get me wrong S.P is badass, but you shouldn't reward bad behavior. Youtube is a SHARE site. Learn to share Corgan!!!!
MissouriGuerrilla 6 months ago
@MissouriGuerrilla - it could easily have been their label or publisher instead of Corgan enforcing the copyright. Good job on confronting the BS ownership culture, but get a bit more informed and direct that rage a little more ... everyone will be better for it.
kerpunktehmunk 6 months ago
@kerpunktehmunk Is that what you believe? Search "Cherub Rock" not a single video with the album recording, not even a damn lyrics video. I choose to believe in logic, Corgan is a notorious asshole and I believe he had more to do with the removal of the songs over Virgin. Seriously the Virgin songs are still all over Youtube
MissouriGuerrilla 6 months ago
@MissouriGuerrilla it's EMI
dimarziotonezone23 5 months ago
@MissouriGuerrilla its not really Billy, its EMI, and I think he shares a handful haha, TBK and Machina II were and still are free
dimarziotonezone23 5 months ago
pure emotion!
davor27055 6 months ago
thunbs up if youre watching this in 2030! no? no other time travelers? nevermind.
nicksummers96 6 months ago 21
The Mighty SP
SpecialKAbraves 6 months ago
a video when corgan has hair doesn't need a date attached to it, you just KNOW you're in the right era.
endlesscarousel 6 months ago 81
Smashing Pumpkins > Billy Corgan James Iha Jimmy Chamberlin D'Arcy Wretzky.
JeffroTV 7 months ago
@JeffroTV that doesn't make sense
roelran 6 months ago
@roelran It means as a whole they are greater than their parts. Smashing Pumpkins as a band is greater than them solo.
JeffroTV 6 months ago
Have anyone made a better song since "Wish you were here", if so, tell me who and what song!
jarnkanslern77 7 months ago
@jarnkanslern77 just enjoy dude, its not a competition ♫)
sonicyouthinphants 6 months ago 2
There are in the video someone screaming: "Water!!!" in russian. Vodyi!!! :)
VladislavYe 7 months ago
Mellow one minute, kicking your ass the next.
SalsaShark542 7 months ago 2
What guitar effect is Billy using right before the heavy part? To get that space-sitar-ish sound?
Toasttoastingfingers 7 months ago
@Toasttoastingfingers Its a reverse delay effect
nbaudio 7 months ago
Soma= Sp's magnificence
ohyeadog 7 months ago
the siamese dreams are soma and cherub rock
FellTheSky 8 months ago
I still can believe it was 4 years ago when I first discovered this song. Its feel like I've been a Pumpkins all my life.
StraightPunkEdge93 8 months ago
One of the most epic rock songs ever
94loveallmusic 8 months ago 4
all time favorite bands!
yeaboyz1000 9 months ago
So hard to decide between this, Hummer and Spaceboy. Fuck it, the whole albums if flawless!!!! :D
DeadWhiteButterflies 9 months ago 3
too bad you didn't record this a notch above mute. would've loved to actually hear it
javius1220 9 months ago 2
love :)))
chupakiAGORA 10 months ago
I swear to god, everytime i hear this song, SO MANY MEMORIES RUSH UP TO MY HEAD ABOUT HER...
and It makes me cry, every single time. <\3.
Smashing Pumpkins for life!
XxXKaZz714XxX 11 months ago 4
this song is perfection
dimarziotonezone23 11 months ago
that is epic beyond words, better than beethoven, this is love, magic, night and day. I love when the distortion quicks in and billys telling us words, opening his heart with that wall of noise backing him up.. and that drumming.... amazing, love it and anyone who gets this song, this song will never fade
mout102 11 months ago 4
I'm 39, and the start of this song still makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck.
silexent 11 months ago 4
Why are the smashing pumpkins so superior to the whole world?
nicklazzarinirocks 1 year ago 68
@nicklazzarinirocks Because they are the fucking Pumpkins!!!! man.... what a question :P
MrRoach123 6 months ago
@nicklazzarinirocks I honestly feel blessed to be able to get so much out of the smashing pumpkins music! So many people are just ignorant to how amazing they really were. I hear this and it just hits home for me! Siamese dream is my favorite album of all time and has been since i was like 10 years old! I love a lot of different bands from many different genres of music, but the pumpkins will always hold a place in my heart. For that i feel blessed!!!!
pennyroyaltea89 3 months ago
@pennyroyaltea89 And to answer your question, the pumpkins are superior to the rest of the world because THEY ARE FUCKING GODS!!!!!!!!!
pennyroyaltea89 3 months ago
@nicklazzarinirocks No one knows. They just are
nolansyers 3 months ago
@nicklazzarinirocks Cuz they are The Smashing Pumpkins.
deapwavelio 3 months ago
that solo beautifully reflects the defiant sadness of the lyrics. so cool. Wish I could write music like that..
Kidmag10 1 year ago 2
what year is this?
simoncaca 1 year ago
@simoncaca Open your eyes.
jimmychauv 10 months ago
So let the sadness come again...<3 freakin masterpiece
inlovewithgish 1 year ago
my favourite of smashing pumpkins since many years
powersack 1 year ago
GERMANY - i was there :D
lostandwounded 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
One of the most mind blowing songs ever created.
NoRulesInNam 1 year ago
I think this was from a German concert. And if I'm not mistaken, I still have this full concert on VHS somewhere. I wonder how I could convert it to digital...
zreau 1 year ago
@zreau transfer it to DVD and then upload it to your computer
90smusicfanatic 1 year ago
Smashing Pumpkins grow on you big style, i used to hate this song, hummer and Mayonaise. My favorites were Today, Cherub Rock and Siva, but now its the other way round i fucking love this song haha and Hummer and Mayonaise and pretty much all of the albums up to Adore, i especially like Pisces Iscariot, Spaced for the win :)
zachpygott 1 year ago
This is absolutely incredible.
firebug089 1 year ago
I can never get enough of the billy and james' riffs between 4.26 to 5.10! Darcy's bass n jimmy's drumming flow in perfectly. Fucking awesome!
warner72 1 year ago
What the hell was that at the end??
scamsgalore 1 year ago 3
jimmy, d'arcy, james, billy, come back together one final time
shittybullshit 1 year ago
I love it!!!! JLX1891 TKM
princesspink125 1 year ago
Wow, this takes me back....thanks!
cdouglas9962 1 year ago
until the bitter bitter end of the world yeah
1NTERFERENCE 1 year ago
I wish drunk idiots would just learn to shut up instead of thinking the show has to be all about them during every quiet part
copyvio 1 year ago
Fav pumpkin song. Epic, awesome guitar solo
guitartim89 1 year ago
5:09 Jimmy Chamberlin is a fucking beast!!
silverfuck77jpm 1 year ago
Man hes really getting into it!
I'm surprised a string didn't break, hes ripping this song.
combatsucksatm 1 year ago
billy is soo fne
istolemycar 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
And yep, definitely Germany... but this was '93 and not '94, if I'm not mistaken. SP's performance of "Geek U.S.A." from this same show can be seen in Vieuphoria.
krs7070 1 year ago 2
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krs7070 1 year ago
Comment removed
krs7070 1 year ago
Jimmy Chamberlin is a fucking god
krs7070 1 year ago
he's so sweaty! :)
twiston123 1 year ago
@twiston123 have you ever been onstage under those lights soo fucking hot
AgeofFoolishness 1 year ago
So inviting. :]
Karrrly92 1 year ago
dont you see? there are like 6songs that you cant forget in SM, JUST SAY THE HOLE ALBUM IS GREAT
FellTheSky 1 year ago
I am not some crazy drug addict, in fact i barely even smoke weed anymore... but I think that a problem with modern rock music today is that too many bands today lack any kind of depth to their music. My theory is that I seriously think not enough musicians in rock have had a true, beautiful psychedelic experience (namely LSD, the drug that changed the music world on a dime)-- and it shows.
Might sound crazy, but few of the bands I hear today are capable of true psychedelia... can't fake it!!!
bobshenix 1 year ago 4
@bobshenix I think exactly the same thing!!! nowadays its all about crystal meth and pharmaceutical crap! and... it shows.
peganian 1 year ago
@bobshenix i whole-heartedly agree!
StarpilotSinfony 1 year ago
i like listening to this song in my room with the lights off and when the solo starts it transports me to another world !!!!!!!!!
DrownInGrace88 1 year ago 3
@DrownInGrace88 That's what life is all about-
iceninedestroys 1 year ago
Does anyone know where this concert was?
peganian 1 year ago
@peganian I can see sign of a certain german tv channel (i dont remember which) so maybe it was a show in germany.
michalkooz33 1 year ago
@peganian It was a show in Germany. Same show as the first option if you search for geek usa live.
omaha0bugaha 1 year ago
Quiet is the best song on SD!!!
peganian 1 year ago
best song
mike72293 1 year ago
cant wait til these guys are back in live action!
LiamKeez 1 year ago
@LiamKeez
Same here. I saw them back on the Siamese Dream tour, and can't wait to see them again. The music of the 90's kicked ass.
raremountainbear 1 year ago
@raremountainbear damn that would've rocked
LiamKeez 1 year ago
there no point m8 it not the same band now billy has lost it
whitediesel266 1 year ago
billy's guitars are legendary,
i know its just a stratocaster, but the hand paints that he does on them make them look cool
jimmyguitarman 2 years ago 6
wierd how most pumpkins fans 2 fave songs are usually soma and mayonaise! the two songs which james iha wrote the guitar parts for!! hhmmm interesting. just a pity billy didnt allow james to contribute more, james tender little guitar parts worked really well with billys songwriting, cud've had more great songs like this!!
mcd1302 2 years ago 26
@mcd1302 My favorite SP song is I Am One... Which is also co-written with James Iha...
SuperMegabar 6 months ago
Jimmy envoie vraiment du gros pâté !!!
picokiller 2 years ago
"Turn the lights off and light a candle"
that's one of the most accurate video descriptions I've read. this music is soooo magic!! love SP!
Nikinhah 2 years ago 2
I wish they would reunite for their fans and do a concert even if it is the last one they ever do .
BlackTeddies 2 years ago 3
uhhh...are you kidding? they've been back together for a few years now and released an album 2½ years ago..
crashkidd34 2 years ago
yeH but its not the original line up darcy james arn't in the new stuff
foootos 2 years ago
I'm a true believer in old music mostly 80's and 90s
It's quite sad that was born in the following year .
And quite a shame that they broke up before I could hear them together live.
BlackTeddies 2 years ago 3
LOL wow... they got back together in 2006 and released an album in 2007 ..where ya been?
crashkidd34 2 years ago
@crashkidd34 he probably meant a good album with the initial members
FrxBass 2 years ago
@crashkidd34 Umm incase you haven't noticed theres only one original member of the pumpkins and that's bily . =/
You can't even call them smashing pumpkins anymore
BlackTeddies 1 year ago 2
Now there just the Smashing Pumpkin :/
Bassmasta1222 1 year ago 2
the only problem is that i have my speakers and computer volume turned up to the maximum, and it isn't loud enough!!!!
montelimat 2 years ago
You need speakers that go up to 11, 1 higher than most speakers.
alukuhito 2 years ago 4
i was neverbig on the pumpkins but HOLY SHIT!!!! that was awesome.
Nofuture91 2 years ago 3
Fuck
qwertyfuck1 2 years ago
i can die now.
therealsolstice 2 years ago 3
i never get tired of this song.
Alexsy82 2 years ago 3
Powerful performance of a great song from a fucking awesome album..
Radz117 2 years ago 5
brilliant song, even better performance
21YEAH21 2 years ago
loved that was high quality audio
pinthn22 2 years ago 2
Best song on Siamese Dream, hands down. Even better than Cherub Rock.
cretinousfool 2 years ago 98
@cretinousfool good song but cmon better than mayonaise, disarm, and hummer?
cafeledavid 1 year ago
@cafeledavid Defo better than Disarm and Hummer, not sure about mayonaise.
TheSPumpkin100 1 year ago
@cretinousfool hard to say what song is THE best on that album but this song has a killer intro don't you think?
Pattonfrodo 1 year ago
@Pattonfrodo yeah its soooo cool, and the outro to hummer is unreal aswell :)
zachpygott 1 year ago
@cretinousfool True, the whole album is great, but this song is in its' own universe.
blackadder3 1 year ago 5
@cretinousfool i agree.
mrlee192 1 year ago
@cretinousfool God man, it's so hard for me to pick between this, Cherub Rock, Mayonaise and Today. What an album.
NoRulesInNam 1 year ago
@cretinousfool Best songs on Siamese Dream (imo): Soma, Mayonaise, Hummer, Geek USA, Quiet. in no particular order
cgnetwork1 11 months ago
@cretinousfool dude all the songs are epic you fool
clarkkent69xxx 11 months ago
omg I just fell in love with the mighty SP all over!
dreamdanze 2 years ago 2
Does anyone kno wat effect they use at 2:08 and 2:20 that kinda sounds like a transformer morphing? i was thinking mf-102, but not too sure
2blackman1 2 years ago
its a wah with a tremelo on top
WhereMightWaldoB 2 years ago
that was amazing the song on the end??? lol
fuzzyroses13 2 years ago
god on the drums
danccaddy 2 years ago 52
WOW...,
The part where it just EXPLODES
the beauty of it was almost too staggering for my mind to comprehend
euthinizedhope 2 years ago 6
"Secrets i cant't keep"...
Good old days....
KalimeroVFX 2 years ago 4
WOW.....
PHALANX100BC 2 years ago
Hey, I lost my shaggy dog around the year of this video, now I know where he went - he left me to watch a Smashing Pumpkins gig!! (see 1:00 bottom left)
Great song.
gwfrom606 2 years ago 3
yea kurt cobain even said in an interview good music is good music and he always thought of his band being/sounding new wave just heavier but the same themes, and the godawful media put the grunge label on every band that came out in the 90s
pioneer96 2 years ago 2
drown/mayonaise are equally awesome songs, some of my faves
pioneer96 2 years ago
officially since billy got rid of jimmy i hate the pumpkins. Well the current pumpkins or A.K.A billy pumpkins band.
chrisfuller1 2 years ago
He didn't get rid of Jimmy, Jimmy quit.
Trosetv 2 years ago 3
cuz billys a prick
chrisfuller1 2 years ago
a song for a son was amazzzzzzing
skylar44 2 years ago
No billy didn't ask him to leave I'm pretty
sure jimmy left .
BlackTeddies 2 years ago
Comment removed
JaneIncognito 2 years ago
Dude i have to think that bands still rock like this...otherwise i would be in a sad world)-:
Hush now don't u speak to me....
One last kiss goodnight....
Man i miss this band...
goodbadkitty36 2 years ago
Jesus when that song kicks in it's thunderous. And that solo! Does anyone fucking ROCK like this anymore?
rgeraghty24 2 years ago 5
Nope! xD
Not even the smashing pumpkins themselfs rock as hard as this anymore...
Guitartod420 2 years ago
Not in the last 5 years.
wesjoe311 2 years ago
no!
pioneer96 2 years ago
Siamese dream is there best album hands down!
skizmsucks23 2 years ago 8