Student Protest and Millbank occupation - Clare Solomon on Newsnight 10 Nov

[Dendiol]

Claire Solomon needs to get a real job and grow up.

[ukipwarrior]

How fucking old is she? Freeloading tosspot

[MutinyTV]

i'm thirty fucking eight, although was 37 at the time. Do you have a problem with people returning to education then? @ukipwarrior

[therusher8]

I don't share her left-wing politics, but it's just not the case here that Paxman wins.

[kirshara]

wow i saw her the other day.. didnt realise she was so well know, i though she was just another soas lay about

[Iamareallyevilperson]

Honestly - if you don't listen to peaceful demonstrators (as they did not) be prepared that broken windows is the least that can happen.

[unwyn]

Claire Solomon is an idiot! This shows how stupid she is!

[phibble]

The day I vote to re-elect Clare Solomon is the day democracy dies; to claim in her manifesto that she outwitted Paxman is just ridiculous.

[fish613]

Solomon is standing for re-election, Porter is standing down. No-one is calling Huges to account at all. Every one of those is wrong.

Messed up world.

[timetochilli]

@samluke8121 a dumb stupid remark!

[timetochilli]

@Frankenollie and ur a dumb beast

[Frankenollie]

@timetochilli Well to be fair you know nothing about me whereas she DOES look like a lesbian.

[Gunt78]

@Frankenollie Well your comments would lead most intelligent people to agree that you are indeed a dumb beast!

[misterjustincool]

oh my god that mother fucker needs to shut the fuck up and let her talk

[jennywhojenny]

She scares me.

[jrmcm53]

06.18 `FIGHT THE CU*TS`

[jrmcm53]

@samluke8121 06.18 `FIGHT THE CU*TS`

[Summerbkh]

Who are the beneficiaries of the fees? the banks- they get the interest from students' fee repayments.

If a student wants to pay back early (to avoid the interest) they will have a penalty levied against them whereas, the wealthy will incure no charges at all if they pay upfront!

Bankers bonuses and low corperation tax is fine!

Micheal Moore was right in- Capitalism: A Love Story. It makes me sick what they are doing to ordinary people to enrich the few.

[dangerousslave]

BBC... BRITISH BRAINWASHING CORPORATION.. Working for the Global Elite, Pushing the Agenda of the EU commision and their zionist masters

Paxman is an embaresment and all fucking politicians should hang for treason, theft and murder..

[quagmire1807]

@dangerousslave LOL@conspiracyfag.

[dangerousslave]

@quagmire1807 is that it..

[phlarrdboi]

@dangerousslave muupet. i like the part about the eu commission and their ziyonist masters.

hahha dengerous slave. retardo slave.

[dangerousslave]

@phlarrdboi Fuck off french pussy boy and hump someone elses leg..

[phlarrdboi]

@dangerousslave the zionist french and their leg humping eu commission pussies. its all getting confused... time for RETARDO-SLAVE to sort it all out.

[regvarney]

@dangerousslave What a deluded twat you really are.

[samluke8121]

@TheSummerof78 I am ignorant? I would love to know why. :) Are you angry because you miss the summer of 78? *wink*

[cramphound]

keep up the struggle

[rich6440]

Keep going Clare... Your supporters stretch well behond the walls of the universities. You have alot of public support aswell.

[rich6440]

Keep going Clare... Your supporters stretch well behond the walls of the universities. You have alot of public support aswell.

[rich6440]

Keep going Clare... Your supporters stretch well behond the walls of the universities. You have alot of public support aswell.

[makikomi]

She is utterly hopeless. She should have addressed the questions, then they could have focused on the issue about which the demonstration were based.

She isn't listening, and isn't arguing her side properly and effectively.

[rhysvw]

@samluke8121 Choice words, but agree with the theme she is a wrong one, and hurting the cause.

[baboon2525]

Christ, Paxman is a proper establishment twat.

[rhysvw]

@baboon2525 Paxman is an excellent interviewer he lays into all 3 of them its just Soloman was on a losing battle because she would not condemn the violence. If she does that she will get more support and have a better result

[rhysvw]

Soloman is a disgrace. Most students are good hardworking people she has just tarnished the lot of them as hooligans. Also everytime she gets an interview she makes a fool of herself, she should also be removed from her post. No doubt no intelligence on this woman at all

[filmsnoirs]

@rhysvw No, Aaron Porter is a joke. The sight of this prick rehearsing for his future career as a New Labour politician is distasteful and offensive.

[rhysvw]

@filmsnoirs I'm not sticking up for Porter, he is useless as Soloman in my opinion. Clares action are hurting the students and alienating the tax payer. I for one would prefer to see free education, I am 100% behind the students but do not agree with the methods Soloman is using.

[FourZoas]

I wish Paxman would've given Alasdair campbell the kind of hard time he gave Clare Solomons. The one and only correct response is to tell him not to be so sanctimonious and bloody prim and that Aaron Porters pacifying smugness is the real problem. If students were smashing things people like Paxman would've probably ignored them.

[crapgame11]

typical BBC govenment propagandist scum...Go on girl...

[TopTellyFan]

You need to put yt:stretch=16:9 in your video and then they won't look anorexic. An alternative is to use a program to convert the image to 16:9 widescreen.

[illuminatuzz]

went to uni with clare... :D

[loveandrespect85]

 ----Student protest: SOAS university occupation 01/12/2010 (Newsnight) -- Student protest: SOAS university occupation 01/12/2010 (Newsnight)

[INHeadKay]

go Clare! Love her, she's standing up to fairness!!

[Rosalux78]

Agree that Clare was really hardly eloquent in defending the action. She should have said that it was right to go further than just holding a pathetic 'peaceful demo' like the the mass antiwar demo that everyone ignored. Smashed glass is symbolic and harmed nobody. Fire extinguisher was thown by 1 idiot and is irrelevant. Entering and occupying the Tory HQ definitely made a good point, brought straight to those who must hear it.

[rhysvw]

@Rosalux78 Do you think it would have been more effective to the cause if you entered the building in a peaceful manner and held a sit in, I think the violence is a distraction from the truth. We are playing right into their hands. Peaceful protests work take Lennon as an example. We still would have got the press and it would have focused on the fee rises not the violence and alienate the tax payer.

[Rosalux78]

@rhysvw Lennon held a peaceful protest and it worked? Seriously? Hippies led a successful struggle? You have some warped idea of history there. Who is the 'tax payer'? We all pay taxes. Students will pay off debts. We all pay. Pitching an imaginary 'tax payer' against students is just propaganda. The press focuses on 'violence' very selectively - intentionally ignoring police violence against demostrators. Open up your eyes.

[rhysvw]

@Rosalux78, You seem to be a very angry person. Everyone is entitled to an opinion whatever that maybe. Lennon was a succesful protester it is you that needs to check the history, I was living it. Wish you the best of luck I'll support the cause not the violence.

[Rosalux78]

@rhysvw You are focusing on celebrity campaigns not popular struggle. All the people who are angry with what is happening are not just "angry persons". They have good reasons to be angry. In fact, how is breaking a window so 'violent' while police kettling, charging with horses and beating people on the head until they bleed and go unconscious isn't? The education reforms are also a violent intervention into people's everyday lives. Responding by raising a peace sign is just not proportionate.

[rhysvw]

@Rosalux78 Your response suggests that the protesters reacted violently to a violent attack by the police. Thats not the case. Could you honestly say if the protesters were peaceful the police would at random start dishing out a few slaps. You can be angry about something or be passionate theres a fine line between the both. An eye for an eye will make us blind. Good luck.

[l4hi7u]

@Rosalux78 Yeah poor little yobbos getting beat up by the nasty police for damaging property.

[Rosalux78]

@l4hi7u You are starting to get it: Why is a broken window in the Tory HQ (=property) more important than the living standards of millions of students? You could call them 'yobs' if they broke your home's windows indiscriminately, but they did not. This was a meaningful political act, a message that we're not having this and we're here to fight.

[l4hi7u]

@Rosalux78 Oh I get it now, When we ant to make a political point, we smash windows. Brilliant. WAKE UP!! How else do you think the government should deal with the huge budget deficit?

[Rosalux78]

@l4hi7u So in your opinion whenever there is a crisis the poorest should pay for it without resistance and what is happening now all over Europe is noble and constructive? Why are you so fond of this arrangement whereby our lives are wrecked by the whims of financial markets, so that their wealthy beneficiaries can keep on draining us out? Sadly our current 'democracy' is only interested in maintaining this situation so any 'alternative' scenario would involve overturning the balance of power.

[l4hi7u]

@Rosalux78 So your'e trying to "overturn the balance of power" and make this some sort of communist state? Dream on!

[l4hi7u]

@Rosalux78 And why are you so one sided, everyone is having to make their contibution, not just the poor. Its just the small number of very rich individuals who wont feel it. The rest of us have all had to make some sort of sacrifice.

[terrorstorm99]

Jeremy Poxman and Simon Hughes are arrogant pricks! Some people don't like Clare Solomon because she speaks up for the oppressed and refuses to be intimidated by the establishment. Tax the rich, not the poor!

[terrorstorm99]

Tax the rich landholders like the Royal Family, not the poor workers.

[BarryKade68]

How much longer will we have to put up with brainless SWPers damaging our cause? She needed to justify why she was in Millbank, dodging this question didn't put her in jeopardy of admitting anything illegal, trespass is not a criminal offence. Occupations are part of a noble tradition of peaceful civil disobedience, and it should have been emphasised that the media had totally blown the small amount of violence out of proportion - as they do. Clare Solomon. Proof that the stupid get degrees.

[rhysvw]

@BarryKade68 Well said, I thought I was on my own for a while. Soloman is alienating the tax payer and damaging the cause. The people are behind the cause but will turn on the students if she continues to condone the violence. She should be removed from her post in my opinion.

[BadassCeino]

This reporter is a corporate prick, he's just trying to entrap this woman into admiting to something illegal, & she just keeps dodgeing him, GREAT WORK LADY.

But I seriously think it was the undercover agents that did all the dirty work to get you guys in trouble. YOU NEED TO DO SOME SERIOUS INVESTIGATION.

You guys may have a bug among you, a rat, a snitch," A UNDERCOVER AGENT".

[DamoSuzuki100]

@BadassCeino

I noticed she didn't have the courage of her convictions and couldn't give an intelligent answer either.

[terrorstorm99]

Jeremy Poxman is obviously following an agenda to distract from the real issues involved. Many of the actions were spur of the moment and spontanious, born out of the frustrations that many students feel by being ignored and treated shabbily by this and previous governments.

[Gunt78]

@terrorstorm99 Yeah and awareness that the state sanctioned protests against the Iraq war didn't make a blind bit of difference.

[BaconFiend86]

The way Hughes is trying to deflect from the Lib Dem mistakes on to the student violence is deplorable. Of course it was unacceptable, but it should be a good example of how angry people are over this. Especially in the way the Lib Dems backed down from their promise of getting rid of tuition fees.

[skinnyboy73]

Get a proper job and contribute to society you stupid mare, Mickey Mouse degrees are part of the downfall of the once Great Britain instigated by the communist Labour party, great job guys ffs!

[LokiBrehm]

GO CLARE! dunno how she kept her composure among these uptight fools. Don't think free h. education will ever stick, but she's absolutely right in defending her fellow students. All this fuss over the violence has overshadowed the main subject only for the media and politicians. After all there were 0 overturned cars and westminster remains intact. But the level of engagement at least has made more people care about politics now than in a long time. Down with conservatives and their new puppets.

[rhysvw]

@LokiBrehm You only have Soloman to blame for overshadowing the violence if she just said "I DO NOT CONDONE THE VIOLENCE" she would have been alright, She has no sense and is hurting the students. People are taking notice of the violence not the cause.

[realendofcity]

What a stupid cow. What is she studying? An HNC in frisbee studies? She is a perfect advert for why students should pay for their own 'education'.

[bhughes1986]

Drcornwallis100 - the debt matters now as our country has a massive deficit (ie more money spent than raised through tax), and the global economy means that there is a chance we could be in serious financial trouble in the near future. Watch the documentary that was on Ch4 last Friday (4od) - might change your views.

[bhughes1986]

Well done Paxman for highlighting her as an absolute idiot. Free education for all? Not a chance, somebody has to pay, money doesn't grow on trees! By advertising the fact that more violent protests are on the way I expect she has added herself to a list of people under surveillance; they will be watching and waiting for her. I know that she didn't throw the fire extinguisher from the building but she probably supported it - someone could have died for fucks sake, someones husband/wife, chil

[MillionaireDubMind]

@apoplexia54 you, sir, are simply laughable.

[DrCornwallis100]

'Because of the finances...' The debt of this country is not at any record breaking high, it is no higher than our peers in the G20 and it was higher post war when we built the NHS and the Welfare State. It's about time they stopped using the deficit as an excuse to devestate the public sector and put into place their brutal right wing policies.

[superdons88]

Buther55isset are you channeling Rick off the Young Ones? You're a joke, Clare Solomon is a joke, and you set your cause back spouting rhetoric like that.

[ButherLi55ett]

@superdons88 What do you mean by 'set your cause back' and what is my cause? What rhetoric?

[Intervene]

Thanks for the upload!

[Gaddaf6]

THE PEOPLE THAT WENT INTO THE BUILDING WERE PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT. I WAS THERE. THEY CAME OUT OF BLACK VANS ROUND THE CORNER AND RAN STRAIGHT IN.

[calumjlindsay]

a fantastic spokesperson for the people who stormed the building - a complete fucking retard.

[guitardiary]

She walked in to a building! Oooooh noooo stop the press!

[yasminx16]

We need people as outspoken as clare to strike a balance in representation, in my opinion. The government will NOT listen unless students speak up explicitly,

[TireTortureandTime]

@Jenopo Punishment may not be the direct point, Jenopo - but who are they hitting hardest? Right. And who is most to blame for the crisis? Is that justice? If not, why defend it?

[tramtrackharry]

Deidre Spart lives! What a disaster; please keep it up Clare for Cameron's sake.

[Chriseycarlyeah324]

i can actually feel myself getting more right wing the more clare solomon talks

[superthoughtcriminal]

Paxman £100k+ a year establishment stooge would be asking Emily Pankhurst (suffragette) the same question 90 years ago. He'd grill mandela as well.

[KidVector]

@superthoughtcriminal 'establishment stooge'? Have you ever watched Paxman before? Grow up from your A Level politics, it's embarrassing.

[ButherLi55ett]

@KidVector Paxman's criticism is always superficial and non threatening to the status quo to think otherwise means you are not engaging in critical thought yourself. Just as on a radio interview I listened to with Solomon she was up against not only the bureaucrat, lackey of the bourgeoisie but also the 'neutral' presenter. Who continues to ask an inane question...while clearly not engaging in real concrete questions, facts or wider analysis. Which is due to ideology, his relation to production.

[KidVector]

@ButherLi55ett you're waffling. You also loose points for using "bourgeoisie" I think I listened to the same interview, on BBC 5Live? She did herself no favours by basically saying she wouldn't accept the fire extinguisher incident at Millbank, saying it was possibly a media conspiracy. Bollocks. It did happen, she wouldn't address the topic because it shows the protesters as exactly what they are, mindless idiots with no grasp on what it really means to take direct action.

[ButherLi55ett]

@KidVector I lose points? I'm not in competition with you. Bourgeoisie is just short hand for ruling class. Do you not think a ruling class exist anymore or have I offended your sensibilities by just using the term? How were they mindless idiots? They reacted and took action against a very real situation, something which directly effects them and the whole class. So in your opinion what does it "really mean to take direct action"?

[KidVector]

@ButherLi55ett Direct action is not some little shit trying to kill a police officer by throwing a fire extinguisher off the top of a building. And you should at least acknowledge that, unless you endorse the killing of police officers.

[ButherLi55ett]

@KidVector You still haven't said what direct action is. Now you've swung to claims of attempted murder? And ignored all my questions. And obviously cos I haven't said killing people is probably not the best thing in the world means I 'endorse' killing! JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. Unless you're prepared to back to the original points and discuss this is futile.

[rhysvw]

@ButherLi55ett problem is Soloman wont condemn the violence if she does that she will get more support Soloman is hurting the CAUSE, alienating the tax payer She gets torn apart in every interview because she will not condemn the violence she is the dream opposition. I for one want free education condemn the violence, and would prefer to see Soloman remoived from her post she is a catlyst for violence protest and a distarction to the real issue tax payer will lose patience and side against her

[ButherLi55ett]

@rhysvw You don't think very much of the proletariat do you. Why do you care about "the tax payer". This isn't about cross class alliances these are attacks on the working class not the owners of capital - they can always pay their way. As per usual violence is coming from the enemy class and the state. The majority of the exploited class recognises this and doesn't have to be patronised. I am absolutely fine with class violence especially when it is defensive as it has been so far.

[rhysvw]

Soloman is apoor ambassador for this cause. We will only by making alliances, not by shouting in our own circle. Why dont you run instead of her you seem passionate about the cause and make a more intelligent argument than her too. Just condemn the violence and the you will get more student support and more support from "cross class'". I'm not a student never have been I came from a mining valley but still feel this is my fight as much as yours "cross class" support you might say.

[ButherLi55ett]

@rhysvw She isn't an "ambassador" in the literal or figurative sense. It is a misunderstanding (or lack of any understanding) of the movement to think this way. Alliances with who? What are you on about? Spread struggle to the unemployed, workers in employment, retired workers etc yes. These are all sections of the working class. What is anti-proletrarian is to make alliances with bourgeois politicians, owners and managers of capital and the state. Run for what? Class violence is necessary.

[rhysvw]

@ButherLi55ett Soloman is an ambassador for the student she is the face in the public eye. I'm struggling to understand what you in particular want to acheive. I understand the cause I dont understand where you are coming from though. Please tell me how you would respond to the demolition goverment. I think we want the same things but would take very different routes to get them.

[ButherLi55ett]

@rhysvw It's irrelevent whether someone involved in protests appears in or on the 'bourgeois media' as the results are pretty much always the same. Bias, lies, half-truths, distortions are the common currency. The whole media industry is against the working class. There is independent proletarian press, forums, first hand accounts of struggle, writings and texts just start looking for it. Some proletarian org's have written statements or produced leaflets so far. Afed and ICC that I know of.

[ButherLi55ett]

I'm not sure what you mean by "demolition" government. I view all bourgeois governments and the wider enemy class as enemies of the international working class including the Labour Party or any 'left of capital' so-called socialist party which wants to 'take power'. I believe in the international working class winning power independently of the state in its own class based organs - workers councils. I don't think there is anything left to win from the enemy class, capitalism is in decline.

[rhysvw]

@ButherLi55ett, If "working class are to win power" How would that power be structered organised to avoid a vigilanti style society?

[ButherLi55ett]

@rhysvw Well, I think material conditions determine consciousness so with an economically and socially more equal and libertarian society consciousness changes also - individual and collective actions, thinking, motives etc. 'Political' power through workers councils, factory assembelies, and whatever class organs spring up. There will no doubt be a transition to a new society but ultimately production and distribution controlled by workers themselves for human needs and wants not for capital.

[ButherLi55ett]

@ButherLi55ett All committees and co-ordinations that speak in the names of the class have to be elected and instantly recallable. Obviously there will be no need of a standing army and other remnants of the bourgeois state. Workers' militia and more generally an arming of the class will perhaps be necessary during a transition period. The enemy class aren't just going to give it all up are they. They're quite happy beating the shit out of you for even protesting in a bourgeois democracy.

[rhysvw]

@ButherLi55ett. To extent I agree we the working class are always fighting an uphill battle. I dont mean for this to be disrespectful but that statement was the best you'v made yet, made perfect sense to me.

[rhysvw]

@ButherLi55ett Allies - must be made with the common man/woman they must empathise with the cause, or they will your enemy. They will not tolerate the violence iraq war is a prime example. The "movement" must be presented in the right manner. Please do not respond with a rant about class. No one is saying you need to crawl up the butt of a wealthy politician there were all "class'" of people in the mining strike from unemployed folk, miners, doctors, politicians, even police officers.

[ButherLi55ett]

@rhysvw It depends what you mean by "common (wo)man". If you mean other working class elements then of course yes, I agree. But not sections of the enemy class or groups and organisations which seek to lead or control the movement. Its strength is its autonomous, relative independent and localised form. Furthermore, the movement must be internationalist. Links should be made with other sections of our class in other countries. Turkish workers are being repressed and we all know about Iran etc.

[ButherLi55ett]

@ButherLi55ett I would draw the line at police officers. Until they come over to the side of the exploited class they are very much a section of the class enemy, being an armed body of men - part of the state's oppressive apparatus. Protecting bourgeois government, property laws and capital. In essence maintaining the staus quo. I think the army is more proletarian but that's another subject. The police can be won over and has been historically but we are certainly no where near that stage yet.

[rhysvw]

@ButherLi55ett, Common man or woman someone who wants to acheive the same goals. Not necciseliary "classes" but dont assume by using violence you wont alienate working class people. I agree unity on an international basis is needed. It sounds like we want the same things we only differ on the subject of violence which I am appose too.

[ButherLi55ett]

@rhysvw Don't get me wrong, most people don't like or want violence. I don't, I'm not a violent person. But I recognise it is necessary in the end. I don't expect every single member of the exploited class to be a gun toting revolutionary on the barricade or in the trenches or the housing estate as it might be nowadays. But if you think the enemy class and its state won't use horrific violence against us you are very much mistaken.

[rhysvw]

@ButherLi55ett Whats fitting here is we are only talking about the violence not the cause. This just goes to show that violence is a distraction from the cause. Just remeber violence comes in many forms it doesn't have to be so obvious. Tact must be used or we will lose end off. Anyway good luck.

[ButherLi55ett]

@rhysvw If there was no violence from the enemy class and the state there would be no need for proletarian violence. But this is not the case. I am convinced historically there is a need for mass working class violence but not terrorism or elitist/vanguardist violence which works against our class and strengthens the state and gives it 'license' to be more repressive.

[rhysvw]

@ButherLi55ett Last response promise didn;t mean to bombard you with emails. Just wanted to say you fascinate me, I see some people have been insulting you on here I think everyone is entitled to an opinion without being abused for it. I sometimes get lost in your response though not sure again not sure where your coming from exactly not clear enough on your opinion for me, other than you agree with "class violence"

[franzfaramir]

@superthoughtcriminal So fucking true.

[MetaCraken]

@superthoughtcriminal different situations require different tactics.

[ButherLi55ett]

@superthoughtcriminal haha he's such a prick , he's probably on several times that anyway - BBC news presenters are on about 100k as revealed when one of the manipulators was having a go at a bureacratic lackey during the 'expenses row' and taking the moral high ground cos she paid for her own bus fare or some such bollocks. They're all scum at the end of the day on a par with priests these days for their levels of mystification.

[shatakan]

And everyone other Paxmanite here: Fuck off back to your Daily Mail lunacy

[shatakan]

Wooo! Go Clare! She fought hard to actually retain the MESSAGE of the student protest, must have been difficult in the face of that far right bastard Paxman, who gets paid hundreds of thousands to spit on ordinary people. While I don't condone the smashing of the Tory HQ, I would expect nothing less from Paxman than to focus his attention on a few bits of broken glass. instead of the actual point. Disgusting. But hey, why would he be expected to understand, he has to stand up for his own class.

[ChainsawDance]

He is asking perfectly valid questions, whether she likes it or not. Her constant changing of the subject and unwillingness to admit the violence was wrong is very telling. If she was representing me as a student, I would be disgusted. Good leaders can take the blame when things go wrong, as well as the credit when things go well.

[Diomedes1962]

The bankers and their greed did for the economy - not the students.

[Karmaunc]

car crash performance by Clare Solomon

[ButherLi55ett]

@Karmaunc In what way? Please give a specific example.

[donlogan69]

@Karmaunc She's crap, though I wouldn't mind giving her one.

[TheEphos]

Well done Claire. Let's be clear, according to police figures 10 people were injured, non serious. This is really about the anger felt at these cuts and what this millionaire, tax dodging, expenses fiddling, front bench are doing to OUR public services. Students oppose all cuts and stand in solidarity with public sector workers.

[xArmagideonTime]

Paxman didn't make her look stupid, she made herself look stupid for not answering the quesiton.

[arwenae]

Sigh... hardly anyone seems to debate anymore. It's easier to bring a speech and say it no matter what...

[tsinasky]

It's so irritating that this guy talks and behaves as if HE represents the common feeling.He keeps asking about the glass breaking and the ''limits of protest'' , he doesn't even care about the reason of protest. It was the same in greece,the same in france, media have become the best defenders and propaganda agents of governments.

[mailbox0009]

Well done Clare for hanging on to your message and standing up to myopic propagandists like paxman.....

The people have to be angry because the politicians and so called journalists refuse to get angry. Anyone who isn't angry doesn't understand what is going.

[82648947]

Solomon...cracks knuckles at 8:30..heard her on BBC today, she is barking mad. Education should be free? She said this again during the clip. Nothing is free. She somehow saw no-one being violent (except Police) or causing damage to the buuilding, even though she was in it at the time.

[superthoughtcriminal]

@82648947 Yes education should be free. University education was free when Paxman and Hughes were students and it was free right into the early 1990's. As for nothing being free - education currently is available free upto the age of 18. The real violence is about to be unleashed upon us in the shape of 500,000 job cuts and the decimation of our welfare state all made necessary because our leaders bailed out banks without gaining our consent.

[E4V]

Have these students bothered to look at the state of the economy lately?

[franzfaramir]

@E4V Have you noticed that the students weren't the scumbags who caused the problem and therefore should pay for it? moron.

[E4V]

@franzfaramir

I'll refer you to my response to @TireTortureandTime.

[TireTortureandTime]

@E4V They know the state of the economy, you patronising fool - they also know what you don't seem to know: they did not cause the crisis and they should not be punished for the crisis.

[E4V]

@TireTortureandTime

The issue is that the taxation the government was receiving+spending in the 'good times' turned out to be from 'profits' that weren't actually real (as evidenced by the required bailout). So can the government go on spending like it did during these 'good times'? It's not about 'punishment'. Most would accept that students should pay for some of the cost of their education, at issue is how much? This violence doesn't make them look smart at all.

Thanks for the ad. hom. BTW

[Diomedes1962]

@E4V The bankers and their greed did for the economy - not the students.

[superthoughtcriminal]

@E4V It wasn't students who ruined the economy, nor was it public sector workers - but they, like the rest of us are expected to pay the price while those who did cause the mess - bankers and financial speculators, (who produce nothing of substance and whom no-one would notice if they went on strike) get an eyewateringly massive tax payer hand out and a green light to do the same again.

[E4V]

@superthoughtcriminal

I agree with some of what you say here, wrt. the bailout, which has now created moral hazard. Debt holders of the bank should have had taken a haircut and essentially become the equity holders. This would have recapitalised the banks and not cost the taxpayer a penny.

However the UK govt isn't in the position it is now in solely because of the banks, it was spending more than it taxed even in the good times, all the crisis has done is bring the problem forward in time.

[TireTortureandTime]

@E4V And you don't see what's wrong with trebling fees to cover the cost? What you use to explain this broken promise STILL isn't the fault of the students. Plus, you sound like Aaron Porter re. your assumption that most would agree with you. Look at reports on the protest - look at the comments; a massive portion of people think fees should be abolished. If you deducted the communists, socialists, anarchists, and others at the protest who want fees abolished, the number wouldn't be near 52,000.

[Pasthim]

@TireTortureandTime you say that 'a massive portion of people think fees should be abolished'. A massive portion also think that, as adults, you should pay your own way in life and if you don't like it don't go. Life is hard, universities are not charities.

[E4V]

@TireTortureandTime

The government already provides a massive subsidy for university students, asking them to pay a higher share is not necessarily inequitable. Don't get me wrong, I fully aid for low income familes etc receiving more financial support to their education. By making education free, you are essentially asking those that will earn a good wage in the future (as result of their studies) to be funded by the poorest in society who subsidise them through their taxes. How is this fair?

[Rosalux78]

@E4V If that's your take then you should be supporting progressive taxation so that the 'poorest in society' don't pay any taxes AND get free education. Higher education in no way guarantees high incomes anyhow, and this should not be its sole purpose. Knowledge is more than monetary value. Besides, what jobs and what incomes under a goverment who are ready to both bring on mass unemployment through cuts in the public sector, while also cutting benefits from those who are unemployed?

[E4V]

@Rosalux78 I support a progressive taxation, whereby the poor pay negligible tax. And I accept that education does not guarantee high income due to many other job related factors. However at some point this education must be paid for, last time I looked college professors don't come cheap. At some point the education provided and paid for has to generate a return via productive private sector employment. On the plus side at least the internet makes knowledge more widely obtainable at lower cost.

[Rosalux78]

@E4V A 'return' to *whom*, 'via productive private sector employment'? If you are the employer I can understand... And by the way education did not start off being a profit-making enterprise even though there have always been attempts to turn it into one. Independent knowledge and the profit motive don't go together. Look ahead to times when 'independent' social research is all conducted by the likes of Lord Browne, ex BP CEO!!

[E4V]

@Rosalux78 I mean a return to society. I'm not sure if people having 'knowledge' per-se serves any benefit unless the knowledge contributes something.

Otherwise you have a situation where money is spent on educating people, but why? You can't really say just for the sake of knowledge, because ultimately education spending has opportunity cost, ie. whatever you're spending on education can't be spent in other areas (of which there are many demands).

Can be for profit or not doesn't matter.

[franzfaramir]

fuck the BBC! once again they've proven their unwavering loyalty to their ruling class masters.

[KidVector]

@franzfaramir What? A Conservative led coalition that would like to cut the BBC's budget into non-existence? Honestly, the naive comments here are ridiculous... 

[franzfaramir]

@KidVector You clearly don't understand my statement. don't insult yourself any further.

[KidVector]

@franzfaramir What's not to understand about your statement, it's so painfully simplistic...