Richard Dawkins on alternative medicine and the nature of science

[sighance1]

Alternative medicine gives those who have been failed by mainstream medicine a way out of the maze. Most people find alternative practitioners because they no longer have answers. People are not stupid as Dawkins would like to portray. Most people just want to get better, feel better, and be treated fairly and with dignity and respect as an autonomous thinking individual.

[jtking2504]

This is where Dawkins & I part ways :) Is he just another vehicle for Industry propaganda?

[Task5003]

@jtking2504 What do you mean? What "industry" what he be a "vehicle" for? What industry is against so-called 'alternative medicine'?

[skywize]

You know you can cure cancer with broccoli right? Cauliflower cures the really big cancers.... Damn I wish Carlin was still alive.

[spenc193]

Dawkins, Dawkins, Dawkins. That theory of science works if the reviewing and regulatory parties don't have conflicts of interest with the parties being reviewed. Anytime money is allowed to flow through the process, you'll find bad science and skewed data close behind. Take a look at all of the "peer reviewed" data concerning fluoride in drinking water. Sure, I bet its great for my teeth too. What a joke.

[gezznz]

Mr Dawkins is deluding himself - and worse, deluding others. His "science" is based on unproven assumptions that mind and body are separate; and that objectivity actually exists.

[JustinHampel]

@gezznz The only assumption science makes is that the universe can be understood by humans. How is this "deluded?"

Besides, science is the very reason you have a computer to make stupid comments like that on, or a house with windows and paint and locks on your doors. It's what gives you your car, your convenient food, your clothes, and just about everything else you have. This stuff is true whether or not you believe it; its existence is not contingent upon your opinion.

[diekontrolleure]

@gezznz its true objectivity doesnt exist! i heard some guy claim that paris is the capital of france to other day to which i correctly responded: in your world maybe, but i think that london is the capital of france since objectivity doesnt exist

[locccotv]

what wrong with medicine is that it is within a rpofit making isntitutional structure who like two weeks ago dissmiss cancer attqacking drugs dat are effective so they can make more money fromn treatment

[merce0909]

Dawkins can be as bad or worse than religious fundamentalists.

[cidpusa700]

alternative medicine was the past present and future of medicine

[sol2soul77]

ITS IS NICE TO SAY PROVEN AND UNPROVEN MEDICINES BUT DO PEOPLE REALIZE THAT THE PHARMACEUTICAL WORLD IS RUN FOR PROFIT SO ANY MEDICINES THAT ARE READILY AVAILABLE TO ALL THEY ARE USUALLY MARGINALIZED AND MADE TO LOOK SILLY BY THE CONTROLLED MEDIA I.E MARIJUANA BECAUSE EVERYONE CAN GROW IT YOU CAN NOT MAKE A PROFIT. WAKE UP PEOPLE

[2Halifaxion2]

"Science...all about coulda, not shoulda"

[2Halifaxion2]

"80% of alternative medical treatments have never subjected themselves to scientific testing." It is not up to a treatment to subject itself to testing, it is up to a paid scientist to choose to test it. Hawkins has made this fallacy before; he refers to science as its own entity, free of things like bias. As a concept, yes, but in practice it most certainly is constrained by things like corporate goals and boards of directors of institutions deciding what is and what is not science.

[sol2soul77]

@2Halifaxion2 TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU...

[shoutatthesky]

@2Halifaxion2 Obviously pharmaceutical have to be tested but with alternative medicines there is a whole range of different regulations depending on where you are. The thing is that many alternative practitioners have refused to test their products even though doing so would massively increase their sales. Scientists don't "choose" what to study often times, it depends on what funding is available, and that is provided by the people pushing the different products. Its all about the money

[GiveCourage]

Those bitches, not using real science...bitches.

[brindlebriar]

I like Dawkins and science, but in the proper scientific perspective, it should be born in mind that what is not verified nor verifiable, is not necessarily untrue. Furthermore, ideas do not subject themselves to experiment. People do that. If 80% of alternative treatments have not been scientifically tested, the fault is with scientists. Finally, of the other 20%, many have yielded positive statistical results, but remain nevertheless "alternative" due, apparently, to paradigm loyalty.

[Hyrshau]

There are reasons why certain medical treatments (which we at times call alternative) do not get a fair chance in the health market because of control by FDA and the gov't. Medicine is also a business. Look up Dr Burzynski's struggle to get his effective cancer treatment approved, It took him decades to have it recognised and FDA tried whatever they could to stop him saving people's lives. 'Cancer is a serious business' is the movie.

[No1warp9]

@icarus313 [A controlled scientific trial is not a mental box - it's a way of watching the effects of a treatment and isolating out as many confounding factors as possible]

And how can we do that when the "confounding factors" are, in reality, infinite in number? And what about the psychological makeup, attitude, demeanor, character, spiritual beliefs, emotional support, daily habits, obsessions, fears/phobias, financial situation, personal/family tragedies, etc. of the individual? (cont'd)

[No1warp9]

@icarus313 (cont'd) This is why homeopathy, traditional herbal therapies, TCM, Ayurvedic medicine, and energy/vibrational medicine are so effective. They take into account the whole being, and is why there is no one-size-fits-all medicine for patients with the same illness. In fact, homeopathic doctors typically spend hours with each patient to determine the most suitable medicine & dose...not 5 minutes and then prescribe a drug to address only the symptoms/lab results.

[No1warp9]

@CoolGuy23423 [if medicine that was incorrectly shown to be effective, and later discovered by scientific investigation not to be effective, that is yet another victory for science]

Are you aware of the long list of FDA approved medical drugs that are responsible for half a million injuries & 100,000 deaths annually...some found later to be so toxic they had to be taken off the shelf? You call that a "victory for science"? People typically confuse big business/authority/propaganda with truth.

[ptolemyauletesXII]

@TheOptimistPrime Yes, that is ttrue, but science has been recommending natural healthy diets for ages. This is not new. New discoveries may be made about waht is healthy, but a fat smoker is advised to quit smoking and to change his diet as first steps. He is not given crystals or a little vial of water with nothing in it labelled 'essence of xonthar bean'. Medicine works or it does not. There is no alternative. If there were it wouyld be adopted by medicine.

[sirdynehhmite]

St. John's Wort Commercial: /watch?v=VoD7EAs1rA8

[Buhzie15]

you know what you call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.

[smoothbanana]

@Buhzie15

I think you meant to write "sleep" :)

[No1warp9]

"controlled scientific trials" = if it doesn't fit in THIS box, it doesn't exist

"peer review" = peer pressure

"repeating experiment" = it only exists IF it occurs WHEN and HOW we study it

[icarus313]

@No1warp9

A controlled scientific trial is not a mental box - it's a way of watching the effects of a treatment and isolating out as many confounding factors as possible. When people take a drug and then get better - that is not proof that the drug worked, because often times people get better just by the passage of time. So, the whole point of this method is to account for all the things that we could be wrongly attributing to a patient recovery and to figure out which thing actually worked.

[hvashun01]

Ummm these days the so called pseudoscience may actually be better for you than the "scientific" drugs. The reason is only one: capitalism turns people into heartless money makers. The doctors are much more interested in making money off the drug companies than to actually care for your health. Anyone who denies that is dellusional.

[ArtypNk]

@hvashun01

Yea, everywhere outside the usa healthcare is free, so since there is no profit motive there, why wouldn't a young aspiring French medical research scientist develop a super cure from... i dont know, bark? Who is suppressing him? What, doesn't he want to be awesomely famous winner of the Nobel prize? Your theories about big evil pharma corp would hold up if the rest of the world wouldn't exist. 

[sauticml]

Dawkins seems to be quite ignorant of the systemic abuses of academia and peer review systems that are pointed out so clearly in Deloria's "Red Earth White Lies". Dawkins is a classic example of a tree being unable to sense the very forest that it resides within, though that may be a bad example after all as trees show remarkable abilities to sense and relate to each other much better than Dawkins shows ability to monitor his own arrogance.

[swingvalse]

@sauticml Last editors of the BMJ and New England Journal of Medicine, two of the biggest peer reviewed medical journals both said that nothing published in any peer reviewed medical journal can be believed basically due to corruption in funding issues. Would love to sit Dwarkins down in front of them at let him eat cake, Dwarky is a system bot, shame some of his early books were quite interesting. The 'God Delusion' made me want to be religious, he should stick to anthropology, he's sold out.

[icarus313]

@swingvalse

I believe some scientists are corrupt. Anybody can be corrupt. But look closely at what you're saying and notice how sweeping a generalization it is: "All science is corrupt because of money". How does one even begin to address that claim? It's a blatant hand-waving exercise. It would be like if I said I distrust every American because the U.S. has a high rate of violent crime. It's not good enough evidence to justify such a black and white opinion on millions of people.

[CambridgeHeights]

I'm surprised I didn't see Bill Maher shopping at that health fair.

[mrolymp]

i dont like this guy

[xiangyik]

@Petipulpul No, you misunderstand einstein. He proved that mass can be converted into energy. We are made of mass. If we did convert our bodies to energy, we wouldn't have "bodies" as we understand it anymore. You're talking pesudoscientific claptrap.

[jhibbitt1]

alternative medicine completley baffles me, i mean really it does. doesn't anyone using it question why its not an official practice in hospitals and healthcare?

[knightschemdry]

What Dawkins lays claim to about as alternative is true as he sees and explains it. However his answering the question does not take in to account absolute knowledge on the subject only what he sees. If you believe what he is communicating you also see only what he sees. He is not an authority only an advocate on what he knows. I could go deeper into this point but I will save it for my own knowing. : ~ ).. No truth sharing here. LOL

[DracOverLordHaton]

This is stupid, the NHS for example has great efforts towards using what is termed 'complementary medicine'.

I was at a hospital the other day, and the amount of things done wrong that add to health problems is staggering; not that that isn't the case in most other places.

Example: food on sale destroys human health and the environment, there's PA speaker systems constantly sending out electromagnetic smog when they aren't even in use, air-conditioning in use is harmful to the ENT system..

[TerrificTyler777]

I bet Richard Dawkins is another person who considers nutrition, detoxification, stress, etc. all quackery. But of course he supports toxic man-made drugs that treat the symptoms and not the cause of disease. Evolution and conventional medicine work together whereas religion and alternative medicine actually strive for the truth and the cause of the problem.

[Santisantiago]

If science can't even disprove the existence of unicorns,how can it disprove the existence of God? By: Gregory Koukl ...



[Uuuurk]

@Santisantiago "cant even"

how can anyone disprove unicorns? no one can really disprove any of the million of millions of gods but u can for example disprove stuff in the bibel.

[Santisantiago]

@Uuuurk  Hi Uuuurk :) I left that comment to point out that science is NOT a perfect tool. if it can not prove %100 that unicorns did not exist, how can it disprove %100 that God does? Science is not an all powerfull varometer of truth! God to me has little or nothing to do with the bible. If you disprove stuff in a book that talks about God, you havent changed a single meaningful thing in the Universe.

[TheBanyanEmperor]

Science is still only as "honest" as our perceptive capabilities. We, or machines built by us (which we then monitor) still have to decide most of the process, including what the results are.

Science may provide useful things, but it is ridiculously presumptuous to think that it is giving honest results.  It is likely to be very rare that we get the truth out of it, and we wouldn't really know it if we did.

[Uuuurk]

@TheBanyanEmperor u dont know that much about science do you?

[itsabird]

what's the exact definition of alternative that dawkins is talking about here? there's no doubt that there's plenty of snakeoil salesman out there on health products but i'd like to know dawkins thoughts on the 20% of "alternative methods" that have undergone controlled studies. medicinemen and doctors have been around for so long outside of western modern medicine that i think it' be a bold stretch to say that NONE of their stuff works.

[NakedCreep]

I like the wire frame thing that is rubbed on your head.

I can duplicate the same feeling with a comb, or my hand.

It simulated a girl stroking through your hair, very erotic. But I'd rather have a real girl stroke through my hair.

[yourass117]

Richard Dawkins is the smartest, most uber-coolest person ever!!!

[TheFlanker35]

What is the gadget @0:16?

[dgdfhfghgfhgfgffjhj]

@TheFlanker35

Just some stiff wires attached to a handle (with some smooth blobs of plastic at the tips). Some cart-pusher at the mall here tried to sell me one for about $20.

What does it do, you ask next? Just what Dawkins said... it feels good. Sometimes people sell them with BS to go with it, like stimulating your energy pathways or whatever.

[NakedCreep]

@TheFlanker35 Looks like you just found yourself a fetish :D

[IoriYagamiKyo]

Bah. That's all true and right, but snake oil, kerosene drinking, urinotherapy and needle sticking won't stop by themselves. As long as real medicine will be unafforadable to masses, they will stick to cheap-ass quackery.

[mccluskey]

Dawkins is quite insane and stupid. And if there is a way to shut him down it should be supported. I've tried numerous health ideas that have worked and many doctors simply werent interested. Psychiatry in particular should also be treated as an human rights atrocity. William De Maria's Deadly Disclosures has more credibility than dawkins and his irritating groupies will ever have.

[DNMHOMEO]

See this new article!!!

Homeopathic Medication TRAUMEEL S Reduces Chemotherapy-Induced Stomatitis in Children

Homeopathy works!! there are more scientific articles about Homeopathy on Journal of Homeopathy Elsevier, and ncbi and other Journals!

Visite George Vithoulkas web site and others that explain well how it works!

[patrickledford420]

@DNMHOMEO BULL, SHIT. if water has memory then it remembers my shit and piss and arsenic and other bad things that were once in it. you are an utter moron like ALL homeopathy beleivers

[Inn0centWhenYouDream]

@patrickledford420 I drank the shit and piss of 6 billion people this morning. Homeopathy is the most brilliant scam of all time. I bet it started with some drunk guys joking about how to convince stupid people to buy water for ridiculous amounts of money. Then homeopathy was born.

[patrickledford420]

@Inn0centWhenYouDream and the countless chemicals in waters memory lol

[skeletonmom]

While I agree that science can show accurate results, it can be rigged and cherry picked to show the desired results.

The drug company research that is funded in house without impartial 3rd party review comes to mind regarding this process. Especially when money is needed to be made by publishing positive results of new or existing drugs. The FDA does not push to have companies do impartial testing, so the science (or, at least the testing methods and results) can be fudged.

[nimani71]

Medicin has no proofs it works either!

Medicin do not rely on science but mainly on skills!

Pharmacy relys on chemistry & biology but mainlly organic chemistry. Most of the drugs today r made by petroleum (oil)!

ALL of them have sever side effects whitch have brought ADR's (adverse drug reactions) as the leading cause of death in modern times.

"Incidence of Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients" JAMA

[CoolGuy23423]

"Pharmacy relys on chemistry & biology but mainlly organic chemistry. Most of the drugs today r made by petroleum (oil)!"

Petrolium is organic, you fucking moron. For the love of god, please go take a basic chem class before you start handing out medical advice. And take this exposition of your ignorance as an indicator that you are probably wrong about a lot of other things too.

[nimani71]

@CoolGuy23423

"Petrolium is organic, you fucking moron"

Thats what I said! Except that u r a fucking moron...

Drugs today are either synthetic or semi-synthetic. They r sub-products of oil.

What excactly was this that disturbed & made u think that I dont know anything about chemistry? I was a pharmaceutical technician...

"And take this exposition of your ignorance"

About what?...

"as an indicator that you are probably wrong about a lot of other things too"

Like what?... Coolguy???

[adamlyons87]

@CoolGuy23423 - well put, @nimani71 's statement was one of the most misinformed and ridiculous things I've seen on here in a good while.

[amatorynumber]

@CoolGuy23423 His English wasn't the best but I think he had a point. You should read a bit on 'the principle of charity' before addressing people that comment on your videos, my friend.

[swingvalse]

@CoolGuy23423 You left out 'commerce and profit'. What about Vioxx, the anti arthritic drug that killed 160.000 people worldwide before it was withdrawn, even though they knew it was a killer. Dawkins is very ill informed, very biased and if I was going to do a documentary on gastronomy I wouldn't pick MaccyD.

Give me a series on why you should not trust your doctor and it wouldn't take long to take the subject apart. There are no mass murdering alt meds but there are plenty of doctors.

[ptolemyauletesXII]

@swingvalse 'There are no mass murdering alt meds but there are plenty of doctors.' Yes there is corruption in the pharma industry. Of course there is. But most of their medicines do work, even if many have side effects. The side effects are very often a decent trade off. I would gladly have my hair fall out to rid myself of cancer, rather than taking something that doesn't do anything, good or bad. True, alternative medicines do not kill, but they don't do anything else either.

[oldblubblub]

@nimani71 Insilin, Pennisilin, Chemotherapy, Artificial Hearts, Pacemakers, along with several vaccinations for the flu and chicken pox. They WORK and they save millions of lives. Drugs sometimes do have side effects, but that's only if your doctor perscribed the wrong medicine or you take the medicine too much. But if you do everyhting perfectly, you're results will be quite positive. Many of us are alive today thanks to medicine that's been developed in the last few hundred years.

[nimani71]

@oldblubblub medical mistakes and drugs side effects are the 4th leading cause of death in US.

Artificial heart isnt a drug so its not a cure! A cure means that I return to my previous state of good health before I get a disease.

Drugs ALWAYS have side effects. There is no drug without side effects.

But my point isnt that someone should stop medicines if he doesnt want to!... My point is that I want to have the right to choose the treatment I have in favour!

[amatorynumber]

@oldblubblub check the spelling of your remedies, mate.

[DrDannyMD]

@nimani71 Im a scientist and quite frankly am rather offended that you have the audacity to claim that medicine does not rely on science, you obviously know very little about science and in particular little on pharmacy and medicine.

[petterblo]

In the words of Tim Minchin: "Alternative medicin has either been proved not to work or been proved to work. Do you know what they call alternative medicin that's been proved to work...?: Medicin!"

[nimani71]

@petterblo

Neither medicine is always proved to work. Not its methods, neither the drugs.

In fact medicne doesnt have to prove to work. A doctor doesnt have to prove that u suffer! He only has to make a diagnosis, to treat & give advices about staying healthy.

"Alternative medicine" is a term that is used to describe methods of treatment that doesnt use conventional ways of treatment. Efficacy has nothing to do with it as either con treatment & alt treatment may show effectiveness or not!

[metheonewhois]

This video sounds too stuffy. Science is this: "Anything that works"

Something works if you can show it works to reasonable people. That's it. So if some alternative medical treatment is found to actually work - it becomes Science, and its not really 'alternative medicine' anymore. At least that's what it seems - 'Alternative medicine' seems to be defined as 'Medicine that likely does not work'.

There is a consumer sentiment that thinks of science as equations, when really its 'whatever works'

[CoolGuy23423]

Medicine that has been rigorously tested and proved to work is medicine.

Substances that have not been shown to help anybody are alternative medicines. As in, if you are terminally ill with cancer and are not being rational, you can try this alternative if it makes you feel better, but don't tell anyone there is scientific evidence that it works(you may mislead them and discourage them from seeking proven medical treatment).

[maqsad1]

@CoolGuy23423 There's plenty of "proven" medicine that doesn't work. There's also plenty of proven medicine from the past that has been abandoned because it does more harm than good particularly pharmaceutical drugs but also certain types of surgery and diagnosis.

[CoolGuy23423]

@maqsad1

Give an example of "proven medicine that doesn't work", and describe what you mean by "proven".

Also, if medicine that was incorrectly shown to be effective, and later discovered by scientific investigation not to be effective, that is yet another victory for science, not for magical anti-modern medical thinking. Not sure what your point is with this one, but okay.

[maqsad1]

@CoolGuy23423 By "proven" I just mean something that is accepted as being proven and officially shoved down the system. My point is that "science" doesn't reign supreme in medicine, politics, greed and corruption reign supreme and science is the little bitch that follows along.

[swingvalse]

@CoolGuy23423 Thalidomide, Vioxx, Statins, Flu vaccinations, BCG vaccination. There is 4 and there are more than I could post here.

[geekofsteal]

@CoolGuy23423 Not that *I* personally have an example of maqsad1's "medicine's that don't work", but you can't say that all medicine's endorsed by standard medical establishments work for every person or for the specific ailments they're supposed to treat. Also, can you acknowledge that the pharmaceutical drug companies are businesses who's goal is to profit from people being sick and seeking medication? (1/2)

[geekofsteal]

@CoolGuy23423 I don't doubt science's ability to find cures for disease, I doubt the accountability of drug companies who mass produce the drugs for ridiculous profit. If you've watched or read anything at all about the placebo affect, you will know that just feeling taken care of has an overall impact on your health. So, you could say that if nothing else, these alternatives have a calming and comforting way of addressing sickness, which is not what hospitals too often provide. (2/2)

[shoutatthesky]

@CoolGuy23423 Anti-depressants are a classic example. Various, double-blind, placebo controlled, peer-reviewed studies have been used to "prove" to the relevant authorities that they work and received classification to be dispensed to the public. Later on it turned out that many of those studies were not replicable, or were found to have serious flaws, and now side effect of increased suicidal behaviors. But they're still out there being given out like candy and often doing more harm than good!

[Isuckatpaintball2]

@maqsad1 you mean like when they would amputate your leg if you get shot in it?

[Inn0centWhenYouDream]

@CoolGuy Your definition of "alternative medicine" is completely incorrect. There are all kinds of natural remedies for many different things that do work and have been shown to work. Things become drugs when billion $ companies realize they can patent them and sell them for a disgusting amount of money. Drug companies are about profit they don't want to cure your diseases, they want to keep you medicated permanently. Drug companies don't fund possible cures, only possible long term treatments.

[DracOverLordHaton]

@CoolGuy23423 - absolute rubbish. Are you deliberately spreading lies or are you genuinely brainwashed into thinking science is what you are punting here and elsewhere? If the latter, how have you managed not to notice your lacking in applying any logic towards reaching the coclusions you reach? What you're doing is not cool at all.

[DracOverLordHaton]

And, the university I was at had a talk recently about how spirituality and religon and health all work together too, and how things like 'spiritual healing' (for an example see the NFSH) work together with medical care to benefit patients.

This is not in some phoney 'placebo' way, and plenty of trained folks in modern medicine have no issues knowing the soul is real.

To get physically sick, first your aura goes out of harmony - most things in today's world fuck up the aura / soul.

[XforeverlongingX]

@CoolGuy23423 It is actually worse than that "Substances that have not been shown to help anybody are alternative medicines. " The substances are actually proven NOT to work! . That's what a joke alternative "medicine" is.

[swingvalse]

@CoolGuy23423 So called 'testing' of alternatives is usually missing the point and flawed. Take fungal infections, medicine uses anti fungals, good alt would seek to moderate the environment conducive to fungal overgrowth by treating the obstructions in metabolite elimination. When medicine 'tests' alternatives it just puts say T tree oil on the fungus, it uses the same diagnostic but just alters the technique.

The fudge being used to diss alternatives is tobacco science, that's the real crime.

[cfernandomaciel]

@metheonewhois - I think you need to study more what science is. I totally agree with @CoolGuy23423 on this.

[theUSER101]

@metheonewhois If "alternatives methods" work. Then science will show that they do.

[mindful1983]

boo

[chiropractic47]

I'm sure "science" is continuously directed to unbiasly quantify alternative health care methods? NOT!!

Medicine is not science, but an art. It has used Dawkins and his like to subjugate the world by isolating and labeling alternative health care providers as nuts. How convienent? Perhaps Dawkins will see the day when the world fully embraces the humanity of holistic health care. He admits that millions already do. Because it works and its safe! Let him take his pills, needles, and scalpels.

[CoolGuy23423]

No, medicine is not art, you ignorant fuck. What you express here are sentiments that have killed many throughout human history. The objective, scientific study of medicine has saved countless lives and you have to be severely factually challenged to believe it was done as "an art".

[indoctus41]

CoolGuy23423:

You talk of "objective, scientific study".

Does that ever happen?

[ginnymanfred65]

science is only as accurate as the intelligence that uses it!

[SecularTalk]

Hard to argue against that..

[DarthVaygr]

I think things like iris-reading and whatnot are scams. But sometimes scientists get dogmatic about attacking alternative health. For example, I believe that type II diabetes can be cured through diet and exercise. If I can prove in repeated trials that certain alternative methods work, then my method should be given credibility. I am an atheist but I meditate and do other "woo-woo" things because I know it helps me function better. Anyone who has stuck w/ meditation will attest to its benefit.

[MrJohnnyrace]

R U serious ?? And why???

[Jimpsterr]

How dare anyone try to find truth, Burn him, he's a witch!!!

[farmerjohn010]

He's not a witch.

He's a Guru.

[flyinghighsky1]

let facts show themselve to you

[STiELzephyr]

Free Global Energy P-1

collidal silver do your resurch people.

[mahmooa1]

im no dawkins fan as such but he is right about alternative medicine

[mccluskey]

the only doctors that i have read worth paying attention to all lived prior to the 20th century for the most part. There was a brief renaissance in medicine in certain areas of europe. England not being in on it. Old long-lost moth eaten books in foreign languages make for great reading. Modern doctrinaire doctorism is a holocaust

[cooldudesg54]

Check out iorax 2013 posts and especially The real story of health. Medical science is bullshit and is not science instead it is evil extortion.

[cooldudesg54]

If you would like any further information please have a look at indoctus41.

[cooldudesg54]

The fact that modern cancer treatment costs £5000 per month is no conspiracy. The fact that all health concerns are caused by the food you eat is also no conspiracy. The fact that professors and MDs are payed to tell you otherwise again is no conspiracy. It is instead 100 %scientific fact. Now go read some books on the truth regarding medical science Mr dogusah.

[cooldudesg54]

Modern medical science is nothing more than pharmaceutical bullshit. Dawkins is completely deluded if he beleives otherwise. Why doesnt he make a program about the medical doctor delusion where no illness has its cause, such as cancer. We know what causes all illness and medical science hides the TRUTH.

[dogusah]

stop spaming with your retarded conspiracy theories pls

!

[twooffour]

@cooldudesg54 what is it that causes "all illness"? is it vitamin deficiency? or lack of oxygen? or is it only the food (air pollution and radiation excluded)?

[indoctus41]

Dawkins is nonsensical re medical science. The medical tests he's referring to are handled by the drug companies who consistently fudge figures. In Canada five members of it's health board came forward saying they were being pushed into accepting what they considered to be dangerous drugs. These 5 were fired for their attempts to protect the public.

Conflict of interest in the medical field is rampant. Dawkins is spreading garbage that bears no relation to real world of medicine.

[CoolGuy23423]

This video is about how alternative medicine is not evidence based and is for wishful and magical thinkers. Would you like to address that point, or are you satisfied just pointing out perceived individual flaws in Canada's medical system(without citation or reference of any sort, might I add.)?

[indoctus41]

CoolGuy23423:

Shiv Chopra was head of the 5 man team that approved drugs submitted to Health Canada. He was fired after 25 years of service for "insubordination". Google his name and you will actually find out for yourself what really goes on in medical science in spite of Dawkins' laudations.

Chopra was instrumental in keeping rBGH (rBST) out of milk products in this country, something the FDA approved, even though Monsanto documents surfaced showing serious health effects.

[chiropractic47]

indoctus41 hit the nail on the head! As a former medical man now chiropractic doctor, I personally witnessed and was made privy to the corruption, cover ups of the multitudes of medical mistakes, and the firing of medical and pharmaceutical personell who were brave enough to dare step across the line to protect the public. Every year hundreds of thousands of Americans die from this so called "Scientific Model" of health care. Oh, if the world only knew of the atrocities of "Organized Science".

[kobasica]

The rationale behind dawkins is absurd. He admits to there being intelligent design behind the human gene but will attribute it to alien life. This is the person you believe in, this is your leader.

[CoolGuy23423]

Dawkins was quoted out of context in the creationist propaganda film "Expelled", while discussing the possibility that aliens designed us.

He did not say he, or any sane scientist believes that to be the case.

Dawkins believes organisms evolved on Earth by a natural process, beginning with chemical evolution(no aliens) and taking off with Darwinian evolution.

Your slanderous comments are unwelcome here, but if you have any questions about science or biology, feel free to ask.

[leopreston1]

A very commendable read is "The Reenchantment of Science" a collection of essays by leading figures in postmodern science, published by Griffin.

Obviously there will be bullshit and corruption in alternative circles as well as conventional circles. To scientifically validate many "alternative" practices will require a postmodern (new) and progressive approach to science (which is of coarse a great thing, and part of the human thing).

[leopreston1]

MODERN science is very easy to believe in on a superficial level, but it ultimately denies life of purpose and rejects meaning. Science was not always that simple before Galileo, Newton and others were forced to put aside the spiritual dimension in order to survive along side the church.

[Ramshobraja]

Alternative medicine is a blue collar profession by people who simply don't unerstand the complex biochemistry.

[warrentur]

dawkins is deluded

the scientific method is arrogance

[CoolGuy23423]

lol

[nomilkforsanta]

if you really believe the scientific method is "Arrogant", never go to a Medical Doctor, Resident Nurse, or Dentist again.

[BTX38]

Certainly another perspective.

[AlphaDreamz]

No one can ever know the real truth, as long as everybody is being brainwashed by the media, science, religion, politics, atheist propaganda and the occult. Visit sprword . com and see what's really going on. Open your eyes, wake up and spread the word now before you all become more delusional

[CoolGuy23423]

No, fuck you, we can approximate the truth pretty damned well using scientific methodologies.

Open your eyes to a textbook moron, and take your supernatural conspiracy theory bullshit elsewhere

[AlphaDreamz]

Just another example of being ignorant my friend, if you don't believe me, why are you promoting my case. Also, there is nothing supernatural in what i am saying, why would you postulate that?

[AlphaDreamz]

Also your calling me a moron, but do you know what it really means? When it come's to being stupid, people are really ignorant. See the documentary named "Stupidity - Dumbing down of society"

[AgnosticNews]

Real Truth™

[Frances3654]

very interesting

[npgjfmcc]

the sheep, a subtle message!