Athiests, Does Your Life Have Purpose? Jack's off

[t4705mb6]

The OPINION that 'life has purpose', under scientific scrutiny, is irrational. Life evolved in a random pattern & therefore has no set 'purpose'.

That said, this arguement is often aimed at atheists by the hypnotized "religious" as the "why are we here" confrontation.

To an intelligent person, this is irrelevent. There is NO answer.... ever.

The sprtit pushers often say that atheists are without "morals".

This is EASILY collapsed by the death and destruction caused by organized religion.

[pe3er]

well done

[freetaught]

Thanks!

[MagnusIan]

Jack's purpose in life is to suck the God cock.

[MrJoeCage]

the idea seems to be ridiculous; i say your life, my life, anybodies life, has the purpose they assign to it. as to the notion that seems to be held by most theists that their own life has some sort of "cosmic" purpose that transcends the mortal coil, well, it probably doesn't. human ego is what drives such a belief, drives the inability to accept that one life, their life, is insignificant in the grand overall scheme of things, and when they die nothing will happen.

[freetaught]

I've been exposed to many arguments for why this phenomenon occurs. One of the most interesting was that primitive humans were unable to conceptualize, much like animals, that their consciousness will end. When these people dreamed of friends and relatives who had already died, it seemed to them as though a part of the person still existed somewhere.This seems reasonable enough to, me and not at all illogical, given the understanding of both the world and the human body that they had access to.

[NLPNVC]

This question of purpose for atheism keeps coming up for christians. It sounds like they are mystified that people can live life without believing in an afterlife. Interesting stuff on the youtubes.

[freetaught]

As a person who was raised as a theist, and who was conditioned to desire immortal life, I understand how difficult it can be to diviorce one's self from the notion that we will live forever.

Coming from such a background, I found it to be, initially, difficult to conceptualize that I will cease to be. Coming to terms with the reality that I will eventually die is a great achievement for me.

Given the option, I would not choose to live forever, even in heaven.

[rozeboosje]

Jack is simply not getting it. No atheist says that their life HAS purpose, they say that you can GIVE your life purpose. Whether you do so or not is simply a matter of preference and none of Jack's bloody business. What's his problem?

[CousinoMacul]

Jack doesn't understand rationality. A behavior or belief is rational is the decision was made after carefully weighing the options (pros v cons, cost/benefit, etc.). But in order to weigh the options, one must already have goals/purpose/criteria for which to make the evaluation.

In other words, purpose precedes rationality. Jack has it exactly backwards!

[rozeboosje]

He has it ass-backwards. Or, even more apt, jackass-backward.

[freetaught]

I don't presume to know the mind of Jack, as many Christians seem to think that they know the mind of God. Jack began with the blatantly false presumption that this issue is one that atheists are even defending, and secondly, by defining the criteria by which one would base such a belief, while at the same time only applying his model for rational belief to Atheists. I don't much know what to make of Jack's arguments.

[rozeboosje]

I just found this little gem:

watch?v=6fFewwH_lxE

Check the date on that

[Barklord]

Maybe Jack's idea of purpose is that it's not *based* in reason but rather based on personal preference (pre-rational). A belief in god might be a completely rational thing to have. Some atheist people avoid things that they're afraid of even though the fear is irrational and primitive.

[rozeboosje]

No. Jack's idea of purpose is that it's handed down to us by God on a silver platter.

[Barklord]

He's just like your wife.

[rozeboosje]

asshole

[Barklord]

Wage the war on the church face to face,  Pino

[rozeboosje]

You, sir, truly are an idiot if after all this time you STILL think that I am here to piss on all religions. You are truly mindbogglingly stupid to an extent that may even exceed that of the likes of Geerup. Go fuck yourself.

[Barklord]

Pino, you just did a video calling people who believe in god slaves and sheep.

Don't change the subject by hurling insults again.

[rozeboosje]

No, Jim. I did not. And I'm done explaining it to you. Besides, you're a cunt for dragging this over to THIS video which has absolutely nothing, whatesoever, to do with whatever beef it is you seem to have with me. Now leave freetaught out of this and piss off.

[Barklord]

watch?v=BTeScFXoFp8&feature=em­ail

[rozeboosje]

Not that it will stop you from stalking me in other people's videos, but every little helps.

You're blocked.

This time it's not going to get reversed.

freetaught, I'm sorry this had to be played out here. I will no longer respond to Jim's comments, so that at least will limit the amount of pollution in your video a little bit. Jim, on the other hand, may decide to carry on posting his retarded bullshit. I cannot take responsibility for that. Sorry dude.

[Barklord]

You can't even point to anything "retarded" that I've said.

Btw, I've never "stalked" you and I've never called you derogatoory names either. I see your comments on a lot of vids and don't usually bother replying if I disagree.

It strikes me as odd that you'd suck up to and/or ignore the toxicity of people like inmendham, coughlan666 or theamazingatheist but continue attacking Jack. If you want to say belief in the biblical God makes one a "slave" count on some criticism.

[WizardJim]

Purpose is entirely subjective by definition because it cannot exist in the absence of a mind. It's meaningless to talk about the purpose of non-sentient things except in relation to the purpose that external sentience gives them, i.e. the "purpose" of a spatula is to spread frosting on a cake.

Ergo, I would say that people, any people, can say that they have a 'purpose' in their life as defined exclusively by them, no external agency can do that.

[freetaught]

Well said! I agree completely!

[EuroInvicta]

Well, let's see.... I'm generally inclined to agree with Freetaught, but could we say that our own basic survival instinct could be the scientific evidence needed to justify a belief in our lives having purpose? The instinct to live has to be 'figured out' scientifically at some point (if hasn't already) and whether or not this ACTUALLY gives lives purpose, it would serve to explain how we can BELIEVE we have purpose. Maybe? Just a thought... feedback?

[freetaught]

If we view purpose as a function, then you may be correct. However, if we are to define purpose as a reason for being, then what has science, or what can science, provide that would count as evidence that would become the basis of a rational belief in purpose of life as Jack has defined it?

[EuroInvicta]

I should add that perhaps the only scientifically proven purpose to life would be survival and successful reproduction. That's what life forms are designed to do, in various ways. And I don't think purpose is subjective, like WizardJim does. I think purpose can exist regardless of a mind around to give something purpose. That may not be true in relation to EVERYTHING, but surely in terms of survival and reproduction of living things. The purpose of a rock? that's another story.

[freetaught]

I take exception with your use of the word "designed" as it suggests a designer. I'm not trying to break your balls with this--it's just a pet peeve of mine.

This issue that I have with reproduction being used as an argument for purpose is that it's an action that we perform as opposed to a reason for being.

If we design hammers in order to effectively drive nails into boards,then intended function of the hammer becomes its purpose.

[freetaught]

But suppose that we no longer require hammers to drive nails into boards because we now use nail-guns exclusively for this task--but we find that hammers still function effectively as combat weapons--the fact that we have decided to use hammers for this new purpose doesn't alter what the intended purpose of the hammer actually was.

Now consider that a hammerless society finds that rocks function as a device that effectively drives nails into boards,

[freetaught]

we would be hardpressed to argue that this is the reason that we have rocks, though it might be the reason that we collect rocks.

[EuroInvicta]

Very true, I agree with this progression of thoughts...

[freetaught]

It is true that most human beings do reproduce but I do not find this to be a valid argument for a scientifically based purpose model that Jack as advanced in his question. If I did, then my life would be purposeless, at least scientifically, because I do not intend to have children.

In my view, humans doing the the things that humans do--reproducing, eating, sleeping, pooping, and dying--are no more valid an argument for scientific purpose,

[EuroInvicta]

I see your logic here, but the actions of 'eating, sleeping, pooping, dying,' are things EVERYONE does. But as you said, not everyone reproduces (I don't intend to either). Reproduction, in our day, is a CHOICE. Those other things are not, if one intends to live (and die!). Therefore, I believe reproduction is one of the only (or the only, that I can see) SCIENTIFICALLY based 'purposes' for life. I give my life purpose in other ways as I'm sure you do too, in absence of kids. But I would be...

[EuroInvicta]

hard pressed to SCIENTIFICALLY back them up! Childless (or childfree) peoples' lives aren't purposeless in all actuality, but since we were talking only of stuff based in science, I was challeneged to 'come up with one' so to speak. So far that's the only one I can think of, but it would be interesting to find others, that actually DO hold up to scientific scrutiny.

I find it odd that reproduction tends to get lumped in there with just the basic actions of life, like shitting and sleeping..

[freetaught]

then it would be for us to argue that a rock's purpose is to be still until someone, or something, comes to move it.

[freetaught]

I appreciate your comment, you got me thinking!

[EuroInvicta]

Wow, I got YOU thinking? I must be onto something... ;) I'll try to respond to most of your responses here. Use of word 'design': Well I would broaden the term 'designer' to include the process of evolution itself, which effectively 'designed' all life as we know it! I'm no God freak either! ;) Actions we perform vs. reason for being: I would say for many mothers reproduction is or has come to be their reason for being. I think the two can certainly overlap. Not so much for men, though.

[BETTYSWALLOCKS84115]

the rocks purpose is to beat sissors but not paper right? im right arnt i?

[fizzybgood]

I'm existentially nihilistic. I do not believe there is any inherent purpose in life. Yes, I consider it irrational to believe that a person's life has purpose as it has been defined in the video.

[TogetherForPeace]

so the belief that our lives have purpose is irrational?

[freetaught]

Based on the definition of what is required for one to have a rational and scientific argument for believing that one has purpose in their life, that you have provided--yes, it is irrational.

Or do you happen to have scientific evidence all of the sudden to justify that you have a rational reason for believing that your life has purpose?

[TheReasonWhyGuy]

"purpose is irrational"

Inherent purpose, Yes, its irrational.

Self proclaimed purpose, no, it is rational.

[freetaught]

ABC and I were just having a conversation about this this morning. I believe that she understands Jack very well and is critical of his view that anything "rational" must be based solely on evidence. I am in agreeance with you and ABC.

[TheReasonWhyGuy]

True, an example of which is the rational idea that something without evidence[God] doesn't exist.

[TogetherForPeace]

freetaught- how come I don't get invited to these discussions :). I certainly wouldn't mind chatting with you and ABC. She has keen perception to pick up on the way in which I held 'rational' in the high tower I created so as to not let others reach it.

[freetaught]

You're always welcome to join any converstaion that ABC and I have concerning you. Consider this an invitation. Do you plan on coming to Europe any time soon?

[TogetherForPeace]

free-no plans for Europe :) unless you're paying. lol

[freetaught]

@Jack

It's been three days since you've first viewed my video, and I was wondering if I may ask you for your thoughts regarding my response.

Do you believe that theists beliefs that their lives have purpose is rational based on the criteria that you have set? If your answer is yes, how did you arrive at this conclusion?

[freetaught]

Oh, and no, I'm not paying! :)