So, lets see. Both made the choice to have sex. What does a man have to do to have a child? cum. What does a woman have to do? Possibly not cum, sickness, feet swelling, gaining weight, constant peeing, sleepless nights, possible diabetes, hours of pain in labor, pain in delivery, pain in breastfeeding... gee I wonder why the man doesn't get to choose. Oh... wait...
glad to be in PA. i agree with the result 100% and i'm a guy. the woman has to go through having basically a 9-month parasite and all the hormonal alterations, plus all the years of changed life (better or worse)...
it's sad when viewed in a closed-minded way, i agree, i can see the pro-life side. but there are more miscarriages than abortions, it's not CONSCIOUS at all till 5+ months (LIFE in reality's definition)
taking away potential, so? i do that by the millions often, for fun!
Most women don't argue for a father's right to protect the life of his pre-born baby because most women don't care. Most women subscribe to the position that she is the only one that matters. The female ego is MASSIVE, as is the death-grip that most women have on the myth of female moral superiority.
The fact is, it's not about a man making a choice for a woman- the abortion lady is completely missing the fact that it's really not about either the man or the woman, it's about the UNBORN KID. The baby shouldn't have to have his life at stake because his mother got pregnant and realized she didn't want him.
A father is no less a parent to this child than the mother, and while killing a baby should NEVER be ok in the first place, if there is a question about it, the father should be able to stand up for his baby's rights.
If he isn't allowed to do this then why is he required to pay child support?
If you give men a legal hand in the decision of an abortion, then women's bodies are thus partially owned by their partners. Are women allowed to decide whether or not her partner gets a vasectomy because she would be partially responsible should a pregnancy occur? Should abusive husbands/boyfriends be given further control over their partners' lives? Perhaps the women should consult their partners, but they should not be legally obligated to. She is the only one who can get pregnant.
@pennyxroyalty says: you give men a legal hand in the decision of an abortion, then women's bodies are thus partially owned by their partners. Are women allowed to decide whether or not her partner gets a vasectomy because she would be partially responsible should a pregnancy occur? Should abusive husbands/boyfriends be given further control over their partners' lives
@pennyxroyalty Well, fathers 4 justice is only pushing for shared parenting to become the presumption whenever its possible instead of turning a willing father into bi weekend dad. Actually, just thinking about it scares the crap out of me. how some day a women could do something like that to me and the courts would be fine with it, the majority of the time. Can you imagine if they did that to you? men dont want 2force her 2 birth they just want 2 be able to choose when they start a family etc
@pennyxroyalty yes but no one has the right to abortion it is a souless monstrous thing to do regardless of wat is said it is a human life growing inside her and to hkill simply because she is not ready is simply cruel. bottom line no one has the right to abortion
An abortion veto for fathers will be very simple:
Require the signature of the mother of the baby and the father of the baby before any abortion.
Nothing in that confers any right for either to compel an abortion unilaterally:
Exactly the opposite, it requires consent of BOTH before an abortion can happen.
With massive fines for fraud levied on both signers in any case where an abortion happens and the man who signed wasn't the father. That would stop many many abortions.
@themaniusedtob Bullshit. Having an abortion is taking responsibility. Men have no rights over women's bodies and therefore none regarding a pregnancy.
@Bumblybee256 Not bullshit, but a sad reality. Why do you relate my comment to 'men forcing a women into anything' instead of relating it to men wanting equal opportunities (with the responsibilities that comes with it) in planned parenthood after conception just like a woman has? a women shouldnt be forced to give birth? no duh!. but in reverse, a man shouldnt be forced after conception, see, a women can force him into indentured servitude$, parenthood etc with her unilateral choice. He cant.
@themaniusedtob Because giving men rights in pregnancy is not equal opportunity, it is trampling over women. It is not your body that is involved, your sperm does not mark her as your property. I agree, but if he wants to back out I think he should do it around the time she can still choose an abortion. Nobody forces men to sign birth certificates. No equal rights without equal effort, pregnancy is a fundamentally unequal distribution of work that you have no say over.
@Bumblybee256 whether they sing birth certificates or not, men cant back out like women have the opportunity to. Giving men equal opportunity to choose parenthood does not trample over women because it does not trample over her choice to have a child or not have one. yes, it IS my body that is involved WHEN she calls child support services and enslaves me into indentured servitude. yes i agree he should be able to back out when she can still choose an abortion, but he cant and thats my point.
@Bumblybee256 When you say "giving men rights in pregnancy is not equal opportunity" do you this because men cant give birth? what about women who adopt, but cant give birth? do they deserve the same treatment men get? how about if i told you, women shouldnt have equal opportunities in construction jobs because they do not have equal testosterone so they will do less work and trample over other mens opportunity to work even though they perform less so shoudnt get the opportunity to work?
@themaniusedtob (contd) that there is no male analogy. Having sex with someone does not mark their body as your property. What you've just done is drawn an analogy with slavery and equal employment. And no, paying child support is not the same as having your body occupied and used by another human (whilst threatening your life). Men CAN back out and do so all.the.time.
@Bumblybee256 There is "no male analogy"? read the definition of the word again.. there is no such thing as an anology that 'doesnt exist'. if i occupy YOU to work against your will to provide me with money for ANY unilateral decision that i have made, that is forced slavery. the analogy is PERFECT.
If a white man forces a black man to work by law against his will to provide this white man with money that indeed is slavery... now change' white man' with woman & boom there you have it.
@themaniusedtob Er no, there is no male equivalent to pregnancy. I've said it before and I will say it again just for you, as you seem to have conveniently ignored it: you cannot force a man to take a paternity test. Don't play the victim when you know full well that it is overwhelmingly women who are left as single parents with no further support. I live in a community in which men leaving trails of unsupported, fatherless children is common.
@Bumblybee256 not an equivalent to pregnancy per say but an equivalent to forced bodily control for a MUCH longer period of time its what i call $indentured servitude for 18 years..... And yes you can force a man to take a dna test... there are many ways to do this like applying for welfare or have your lawyer petition the court for a mandatory pat test and the court sends a letter to him, if he doesnt show up, guess what? he goes to jail for contempt of court... learn your laws abit.
@themaniusedtob No, paying money is not the same as having your body physically used by another being- or would you equate rape to paying taxes? You simply do not get this because there is no instance in which men experience it.
Lol no you can't. If a woman wants a paternity test done she has to pay for it.
@Bumblybee256 Umm, through court order, you can force a man to take a paternity test. If that wasnt the case there would be no such thing as child support bc the man could just deny it and get out scott free. The only instance where a man wouldnt be forced to pay is if the woman cant afford a lawyer to get him in court or the man simply has no money to give. And umm, forced labor is no less than sexual slavery. Your body is still being used by another being, just not for sex, for money.
@Aliyahdiamond Might be the case where you live, not here. Paying child support is not forced labour anymore than paying taxes is and it is not eqiuivalent to the psychological damage caused by sexual abuse (as I asked below, would you equate this to rape?). IMO one parent should always pay the other child support if the other parent has custody of the child or both agree to adoption.
So the child is using the parents for money, is that right?
@Bumblybee256 In some cases yea, the child uses parents for money but thats not usually the case. The child requires money in order to survive in this society, so whether they're being used or not they still have to pay. People kill themselves everyday b/c of the debt they find themselves in b/c their jobs arent enough to pay the taxes, but they cant find better ones so they cant leave. There is just as much psychological trauma in forced labor. You can get over sexual abuse, but labor slavery--
@Aliyahdiamond Well exactly, I don't really see what you're disagreing with. A child is supposed to 'use' parents for money, that is where their resources are meant to come from. And unless both agree to give up to adoption., both shuld contribute.
'You can get over sexual abuse, but labor slavery never escapes you'- this is shockingly ignorant. So in your view if a parent makes a child do house chores against their wishes, that's more damaging than sexually abusing them?
@Bumblybee256 No it is not "shockingly ignorant". A woman can overcome being raped,you cant overcome forced labor, until you spontaneously come up with a certain amount of money to get you out of that situation. I wasnt talking about teens not wanting to do their chores, i was talking about people who are dragged into slavery because of them having to live out of pocket after taxes. When people realize that they will never be able to get out of that situation it can be just as traumatizing
@Aliyahdiamond Eh no. You do not heal from rape. It is the ultimate humiliation and degradation. Teens not wanting to do chores and being made to is also forced work. Having to work to live and support your children is not an injustice, it's life.
@Bumblybee256 You asked if paying taxes is slavery. Yes it is if you can only afford to pay taxes and nothing else because of your job, if you cant get a better one. This makes you a slave of government and your boss. How does that relate to a teen not wanting to do their chores? And when did i say having to support your children was an injustice? Why dont you get a clue. I've seen many documentaries that affirmed that women CAN overcome rape when they get therapy.
@Aliyahdiamond Forcing someone to do any action they don't want to do can be classified as forced labour. The comment you were replying to was addressing someone who said it's an injustice to men that they should be expected to pay for their children. You seem to be saying it's slavery/forced labour- which is injustice. Lol documentaries- sure, they can move on with life that doesn't mean you HEAL from such a violation. It never makes it ok. Go watch some more documentaries.
@Bumblybee256 There are certain extents of forced labor when it comes to slavery. Thats what im trying to say. You dont seem to be getting that. Forcing someone to work countless hours nonstop can put a traumatizing toll on them. Your telling me you didnt know that? You cant say that sexual abuse is more effective because its just not true and then what proof do you have of that? You seem to be so sure of yourself, so why dont you tell me what you have to buttress your argument.
@Aliyahdiamond You didn't say that, actually. Of course it can be traumatizing, but not as much as being raped.
I suggest you do a search into the psychological effects of rape. Frankly, I'm surprised that you aren't aware that a person's sexual organs are pretty personal. Interesting that you should demand 'proof' from me, while giving none of your own, despite messaging me first.
@Bumblybee256 Oh im sorry. You're the one sitting there so sure that sexual abuse is more traumatizing that slavery and your surprised that i asked you of proof? Really? How can you be so sure of what you're talking about if you have nothing to show for it? Im not saying Slave labor is more intense than sexual abuse. You're the one making all the bold statements not me. Is it really too much to ask of you to show how you know all of this stuff?
@Aliyahdiamond I just sent you a list of reasons. If you want to research it all do so. I've said nothing about 'intensity', only psychological trauma. I just did, where's yours? Lol, I just 'got smart' with you? Who do you think you are, my mother?
@Bumblybee256 Dont sit there and say that its not, because then you would be very ignorant. Women will always know that they have been raped and it will pain them to remember, but some do overcome it. Its not impossible. You cant overcome slavery until you're out of that situation.
@Aliyahdiamond I think I will ,dear. You can't overcome rape until you're not being raped anymore either but it's extremely ignorant to say rape doesn't affect a person on a deeper psychological level than other forced activity. I never said it was impossible, I said it's not equivalent to non-sexual forced labour. READ.
@Bumblybee256 How do you know no woman ever heals from rape. I know read you said, and thats what I was responding to jackass. Dont insult my intelligence when all you've done is sit there and assume that sexual abuse is nowhere near as traumatizing as forced labor. How do you know? You dont. How is sexual assault more effective than slavery, smartguy? Why dont you tell me how intense the psychological trauma of a rape victim is compared to someone who is forced to work for the rest of his life
@Aliyahdiamond I'm not even trying to insult your intelligence, so if I am it's remarkably easy to make you feel insecure. You clearly don't understand why rapes happen and the effect they have. Actually, what I've said is that sexual abuse is more traumatizing that forced labour. I do know, and I'm a woman dear. Not a guy. Let's see- a rape is about controlling, subjugating, humiliating and degradaing a person in the most intimate way possible. They risk physical trauma, disease and pregnancy
@Bumblybee256 Oh please, "go watch some more documentaries", "Its extremely ignorant to say...", "READ". Spare me, im not insecure, you just got real smart with me and i didnt appreciate it, if you werent trying to you really should watch your tone. I "understand" everything i need to know about rape and its trauma. I know that its horrible and heinous, i know all of the risks.Tell me how its more intense than that of someone who is forced into slave labor?
@Aliyahdiamond as well as having their autonomy violated and physically touched and used. Forced labour does not include as many risks and is not a violation of autonomy on such an intimate level. It also does not have the stigma that a rape victim has- which can mean being ostracised from various societies, victim blaming, hard to prove in court and in some countries- being stoned to death for adultery. Is that clear to you yet?
@Bumblybee256 It seems like you're trying to make it look like Im downgrading rape and victims of it. I've been studying rape trauma for years and Im planning on becoming a lawyer to put rapists and child molesters in jail. I loathe rapists. I get it, its a terrible thing that could ever happen to someone. But how do you know its more intense than someone who's forced into slave labor? And im not talking about someone who doesnt want to do their chores. i mean victims of bonded and child labor,
@Aliyahdiamond That's exactly what you're doing and I've just told you why it's more damaging. I know because forced labour is still not as personal as it would be if that person's most intimate organs were being used by. Very simple. I just outlined the reasons. Look into it.
@Bumblybee256 Thats not what im doing. Are you retarded? How is asking you to prove how sexual abuse is more intense, and what i mean by that is psychological trauma ( i thought i made that clear), than slave labor downgrading rape? You're ignorance is way over MY head at this point. You're downgrading the psychological trauma of slavery! Now how smart is that, not to mention offensive. And what reasons did you send me? I didnt get anything.
@Aliyahdiamond Use the words you actually mean, not just random ones. To say that rape is less psychologically damaging is to say it's a lesser crime, when it is clearly more damaging. Yes, I am downgrading the trauma of physical forced labour in comparison to forced sexual activity. WELL DONE. The two comments with reasons are 8 and 9 comments down. I suggest you read comments before trying to reply.
@Bumblybee256 All i saw was you saying that the woman's organs are being violated and that its personal. So slavery isnt. There are millions of children being sold and bought in at least 70 different countries so that they can do back-breaking work and only have bread and water for sustenance, and you think rape is worse because their body is being violated and used. There are children all over the world whose bodies are being used. Their free will is violated as well. So what else?
@Aliyahdiamond Of course slavery is 'personal', but use of someone's sexual organs is even more so. It really doesn't take massive brainpower to observe human society and see that genitalia and their use is a private and personal thing.
The more personally something is felt the greater the psychological effect. I'm not repeating this to you anymore, I find it astonishing that you need to be told.
@Bumblybee256 Your argument is weak as hell. Sexual abuse is a qualification of slavery, idiot. Human trafficking, forced prostitution, how the hell is it worse than slavery when it is slavery?
@Aliyahdiamond Yes, and those forms of slavery that include a component of sexual abuse are more damaging to the individual than ones that don't. Not too bright are you?
@Bumblybee256 Mhmm, but what did you say? "Forcing someone to do any action they don't want to do can be classified as forced labour", "Forced labour does not include as many risks and is not a violation of autonomy on such an intimate level","Yes, I am downgrading the trauma of physical forced labour in comparison to forced sexual activity" It seems that not only do you contradict yourself severely, but your not even smart enough to know when your doing it. I was 'bright' enough to catch it.
@Aliyahdiamond Lol, I have not contradicted myself once there. I have maintained that while forced labour is bad, any sexual abuse makes it worse. My my, you're truly on a roll.
@Bumblybee256 Dude you are truly dumb. There's really no way to put it, your a dumbass. You cant say that sexual abuse is worse than forced labor when its a type of forced labor idiot. You get it? Is it clicking?
@Aliyahdiamond Are you in a special class? It's hard to comprehend how someone can be told something so many times and yet still fail to grasp it. It would probably be preferable to do this with sock puppets: Any.abuse.containing.a.sexual.component.is.worse.than.abuse.that.does.not.
You'll probably still fail to grasp that and continue to call others 'dumb' in your frustration but it's been amusing.
@Bumblybee256 You're a fucking disgrace! Whats amusing is that your sitting there trying to clean yourself up when you've already fucked up. You did not say that "any abuse containing a sexual component is worse than abuse that isnt". You never said that. You said sexual abuse is worse than forced labor, thats what you said. Your dumb as shit, there's really no point in trying to deny it now. So i hope you had fun making a fool of yourself
@Aliyahdiamond Actually, I have consistently said just that. Don't blame others for your poor comprehension ability. Forced labour is not synonymous with sexual abuse. Forced labour is physical toil. Both of these can be slavery.
@Aliyahdiamond Talking of abuse, do you realise how abusive you're coming across? It must be a joy to be around you in real life if this is how you are towards strangers.
@Bumblybee256 Oh please, i didnt start getting pissed until you came at me with that condescending tone. If you dont want to get cussed out, you should probably work on that."Forced labour is not synonymous with sexual abuse?" So sex trafficking isnt a type of sexual abuse? Lets think, what is sexual abuse:The forcing of unwanted sexual activity by one person on another, as by the use of threats or coercion. sexual trafficking:coercion of unwilling people into different sexual practices
@Aliyahdiamond Lol don't blame others for your poor behaviour, that's your responsibility.
*sigh* lmao, no. You clearly don't know what synonymous means. Forced labour does not NECESSARILY equate to sexual abuse. It's not an interchangeble term. You're way over your head.
@Aliyahdiamond Lol. Think twice before getting involved in discussions that are over your head. That's your parting message, little angry one. Bye bye.
@Bumblybee256 What the hell do you mean you didnt contradict yourself, YOU SAID that forcing someone to do what they dont want to do is forced labor (that includes sexual trafficking), and then you turn around and say that forced sexual activity should be downgraded as a comparison to physical forced labor. Its the same THING! Go read a fucking book lol! At first, i was convinced you had an education but now, you've really outdone your stupidity. Congratulations.
@Aliyahdiamond "that forced sexual activity should be downgraded as a comparison to physical forced labor." Nope, other way round. You just get better and better. No, it's not the same thing. 1. Not all sexual abuse takes place in a trafficking context. 2. That which does take place in this context is more damaging than slavery without a sexual component.
@Bumblybee256 It is the same thing idiot. Forced prostitution is putting in sexual work that you dont want to do. And you said yourself that forced labor is doing something you dont want to do. Forced labor is a very wide subject, sexual trafficking is included in it. But its also the same thing b/c sleeping with 10 guys a night is work (labor) and being forced to do it makes it forced labor. So get your shit together. You contradicted yourself, there's no way you can prove otherwise
@Aliyahdiamond Nope, I think it was very clear from the discussion that a distinction was made between using someone sexually/using their organs and forcing a man (for eg) to work to pay for his kids.
I have already distinguished between using someone sexually and making them do manual labour, no matter how much you try to twist it.
Lol, the proof is in writing on this page. NIce try, dear. I'm leaving you to your nasty ways, some of us have things to do. I won't be reading your abusive msgs.
@Bumblybee256 All you've been saying is that sexual abuse is worse than slavery. YOU typed that! Where is the distinction? Go ahead and leave b/c you've apparently embarrassed yourself enough. Every word you've typed has been a contradiction and your sitting there trying to make up for by saying "it was very clear it was a distinction". It was very clear that when i typed "intense" i meant more traumatic, but you got technical and scrutinized me for it. Now im going to call you out on your b.s.
@Bumblybee256 You said numerous times that sexual abuse is worse than slavery and/or forced labor. But guess what, sexual trafficking is a type of forced labor, and forced labor is just another word for slavery, so go kill yourself dumbass. Sexual abuse cant be worse than slavery if its a type of slavery.
@Aliyahdiamond I never denied that sexual abuse could be slavery. As I JUST SAID: instances which include a component of sexual abuse are more damaging than those that don't.
"so go kill yourself dumbass" Lol, I don't think you need me to point out how idiotic you look now. I'll leave you to your stupidity.
@themaniusedtob Men cannot back out legally have you even read ANY of the laws?? unless the women ALLOWS you to.. you cant back out thats not even debatable go ask a lawyer (I have one in the family) and then tell me if he will agree with you when you say men can back out. just because they leave doesnt mean they are doing it legally.. now im starting to think you are debating something you only know one side of.. we are drawing circles
@Bumblybee256 like you would say 'her body her choice' WE could also say our bodies, our wallets, our freedoms and our choice too..... We wouldnt say these thing to "bullshit" you, but we would advocate (and do) such things in order to attempt to attain these human rights in which have been granted/dominated by women, in order for us men to be... how do i put it? oh yeah, have EQUAL opportunity to choose
@themaniusedtob Did I not just say that you should also be able to back out? Are you having problems reading? If you sign the birth certificate you are taking on that responsibility. Rights dominated by women???? Did women ask to be women?? It still sounds like you're saying men should have rights over a pregnancy, I doubt you can substantiate that without causing me to laugh in your face.
@Bumblybee256 You dont understand how this law works. Google what happens when a man doesn't sign a birth certificate, he only looses the RIGHTS to that child NOT the responsibilities$ ever to that child UNLESS another man signs as a father & the court DECIDES to transfer that babies rights over to the new dad. Please research before stating its "bullshit" & for Christ sake, I NEVER said a man should have control over a womans body or ability to choose. Men could choose, & not force. u know?
@themaniusedtob Um no, you cannot force men to take paternity tests. Men can easily run out on women after getting them pregnant and do so all the time, shirking any responsibility. When I say men have no pregnancy I mean nobody but the a pregnant woman can make choices about that pregnancy, whether that's other women or a man. Your analogy to construction work is ludicrous. Giving men pregnancy rights tramples over the autonomy of women and makes no sense, your problem is (contd)
@FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 Why would the woman decide to get an abortion if the man wanted to take care of it? There must have been other issues involved that she didn't tell anyone about. Perhaps the child wasn't even his. Ever think about it? Or perhaps he was abusive. Perhaps she had a genetic disorder, or the child had a genetic disorder that would kill it. But you know what? The "maybes" aren't enough to substantiate it. It's a woman's choice, not a man's.
@FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 Hell, it's a woman's place. Do you know how many men actually mean it when they say they're gonna take care of the baby? What if the man had asked her to marry him, and she didn't want to drop her life and abandon the baby? That is often the case in such situations. You do not have to deal with the repercussions of a pregnancy the way a woman who is pregnant would have to. The baby may be yours, but it's in her - or my - body. Deal with it. Wear a condom.
@CrimsonDaffodils i do wear a condom, they fail sometimes, and it is also illegal to get an abortion after 12 weeks unless there are health risks which i would want her to get an abortion if she wanted it).
@CrimsonDaffodils Ummm, if that was the end, there wouldnt be a debate honey. And if the baby is also the man's then he has every right to care for that baby. Unless your gonna die b/c of the pregnancy, its completely immoral for a woman to kill a child that the "father" was more than willing to care for. If you care so less about the child, then why not give it away. This bitch was probably so worried about her weight or reputation that she just didnt give a shit. its sad that u support that.
@Aliyahdiamond Again, read my comments. You don't know the situation. The woman in question may not have wanted to abandon a life and a career (that she was OBVIOUSLY worried about - you know, her being in college and all) for her to drop out for a semester and have a baby. Plus, the physical risk that having a child carries is substantial enough to make it more a woman's choice than a man's - for instance, having a child can cause uterine scarring, which can make a woman infertile.
@CrimsonDaffodils And i love how u brought up the fact that she would've had to make up a semester of school if she would've had the baby. Oh wow, wat a bummer. "Oh i dont wanna miss any school days, my life will be ruined, i'll just kill the baby. It's the best decision to make for me".i love how ppl dnt like to acknowledge the fact that some things are more than ur reputation or 'career', im sorry,like a human life.u jus basically said that her career was more important than that baby.
@Sueezee1 Bitch Fuck u! Dont call me uneducated just because your selfish ass thinks its ok to murder a child so you can pursue a career you asshole. There is no way you can prove that a career is more important than a life, dumbass so you should'nt have even went there. How dare you try to come at me like it's fact that the woman is more important than a baby. Next time you want to question someone's education you better come correct and that means including logic and facts, genius.
@Aliyahdiamond says: Dont call me uneducated just because your selfish ass thinks its ok to murder a child
~~~~~~~~~
I dont..i do it because your uneducated.. can you imagine ME calling you uneducated because IM prochoice?? hahahahahahahah..thats a good one, you uneducated little twit.
@Sueezee1 You dont make any damn sense, you know that. "I dont. I do it b/c your uneducated?" Its very obvious that your fucking with me so im gonna just end this here. Comment all you want, im not even gonna read it.
@Sueezee1 Oh im sorry for not dumbing it down for you, that was my fault. Coming correct means to know what the hell you're talking about and knowing it well before you make a blank statement without buttressing your argument nd then having the nerve to insult someone's intelligence at the same time. And its Ms. Intelligent honey. Unless you know a guy named Aliyah or Diamond.
@Sueezee1 See, this is exactly what im talking about. You call me uneducated and you dont even prove it. Thats supposed to hurt me. What ideas moron? The only thing you said is that a mother's career is more important than a baby. Thats your idea? Thats why you think abortion is legal, b/c politics feel that a career is more important than a life. And then your calling me uneducated? Thats hilarious! Why dont YOU go get and education, you need it more than me.
@CrimsonDaffodils nd just in case u dnt feel like droppin the health risk topic,let me go ahead nd say this,if every woman killed her kid b/c of fear of the health risks,me,u,ur family,my family,half of the world,would not be here.if she was ready to have a baby she wouldve taken those risks w/ open arms.but b/c she FEARED the breaking of her career,uterus,welfare of the child w/ its father its ok to kill the baby.even tho those risks were the same for all the women who had kids nd was normal
@Aliyahdiamond I've said this a million times, and I'll say it again: you do not know her situation. The father may have been abusive. The mother may have judged him to be unfit to raise her child. The mother may have wanted the father to get his degree and have a career before being saddled with a child. I don't know either party, but it really seems like this guy is a domineering prick - he wanted to control his ex-girlfriend's life to the extent that he wanted to force her to have a baby.
@CrimsonDaffodils so u can go ahead nd stop w/ the all the medical arguments u keep throwin at me cuz apparently that has nothing to do with THIS debate.i commented on this debate, so there's no point in bringing up somethin thats not focused on THIS debate.nd even if the woman judged him unfit to raise the child.wat the hell the happened to adoption.i mean did ppl jus forget about that or what.if u dnt wanna raise the child, then give it up for adoption.
@CrimsonDaffodils thats not exacly controlling her life.if it has something to do with the killing of ur child, im sure its alot more than that so lets be realistic.if ur wife didnt want to raise a retarted child nd killed it even wen u still wanted it, that would be wrong. on top of the fact that her ass would be thrown in jail.but its perfectly ok wen its still in ur body even though ur doing the exact same thing.its unjust!
@Aliyahdiamond Which brings up my next point: even if he WAS fit to take care of a baby, do we know why the mother got the abortion? Does it really matter whether we do or not? Even if she wasn't in danger because of the pregnancy, she could have suffered other complications, such as uterine prolapse or scarring, that are common when giving birth and can make it impossible to conceive again. An abortion has less chance of causing infertility than giving birth does.
@CrimsonDaffodils nd let me go ahead nd say this, if this had anything to do w/ the woman fearing uterine prolapse nd scarring nd all the other things u kept mentioning for some reason, this wouldnt be a debate just about a man's right to have a say in abortion.this would be a debate about trying to force a woman to have a baby when those risks are damn well near.if this had anything to do with that the lady would have brought that up in the debate, but since she didnt, it doesnt apply
@Aliyahdiamond According to your logic, a man should be able to force his pregnant girlfriend/mistress to get an abortion if he wanted her to. It goes both ways - and honestly, I'd rather leave the choice with the person who has to deal with the repercussions of giving birth for the rest of her life. Despite what you think, most women are moral enough to not get an abortion because of weight gain or reputation - there's usually an underlying reason, and it's not my job to ask her what it is.
@CrimsonDaffodils .where the hell did u come up w/ my logic cuz i jus read my comment nd thats not wat i said.if a woman wants to care for a baby, then she can.so y cant it be the same for the man.u keep talkin about all these effects child birth can have on a woman, so according to ur logic, scarring is worth killing ur child, a child that someone is more than willing to care for.its so funny how u try to make this all about the woman.the world does not revolve all around the woman
@CrimsonDaffodils But alot of people suffer its just the way life is.Im sure alot of ppl dont want to care a mentally challenged or deformed child b/c of the hard work nd the frustration, but does give them the right to kill it.Im sure alot of ppl dont want to deal with a misbehaving deviant who causes them nothin but grief nd stress but does that give them the right to kill it.wat is the big difference b/w that and the baby still being in ur stomach. there's not a big difference at all.
@Aliyahdiamond Calling her a "bitch" just shows how judgmental you - and people like you - are. Again - you have no idea what this woman is going through, you have no idea why she got the abortion, and you won't be the one who judges her crimes. God is. She's already doomed to fire and brimstone according to you, so why do you have to throw stones at her? It's not like you punishing her now is gonna save her later, and it's probably just going to count against you.
@CrimsonDaffodils wat the hell are you talking about? yea im bein judgemental but that has nothin to do with her burning in fire nd all that other shit u were talkin about.i was jus sayin unless she was going to die or have some kind of defect b/c of the child birth, she has no reason to take away someone's child even though it may be in her body, but that doesnt mean its all about her.nd i called her a bitch cuz in my mind she is one.u cant be a gud person killin children cuz its best 4 u.
@CrimsonDaffodils the baby is in her body, but its not all about her.having an abortion affects so many people including the father, so if she kills it wen the father wants to care for it, its completely unjust.nd wat do u mean she's already doomed for fire according to me. u dont anything about me smartguy.nothing in my comment even hinted that i was some kind of Jesus freak.stop makin assumptions about me nd my logic, ur way off! its very unfortunate that the woman has to have the effects.rite
If my boyfriend or husband wants to force me to have a baby, I'm leaving him for good, and getting rid of the fetus. Women should have control over her own life and more importantly, her own body. Taking that right away diminishes equal rights.
100% of men don't get pregnant. It's that simple. If the guy wants a kid, take him to an orphanage and let him adopt one; not force his girlfriend (or wife) to have a child she doesn't want.
@memphis148 It's HER body. Not ONE part of her is also part of the father. Yes, the baby is half and half, but it' inside of the woman, not the man. It's HER body that's carrying it; not HIS (unless he's a seahorse). The father should not be in control of the woman's life!
Uh, YEAH! My mom DID tell me that they almost aborted me! My bio-father didn't WANT me and kept taking my mom to the abortion clinics! And when I was a toddler he used me as a sex toy! He still spanked me when I was 13!
@threetailedfox1 I guess this explains how mixed up you are. I am only for abortions when they raise the intelligence of subsequent generations. Two dumbasses have sex. Child will most likely be a dumbass. I have little problem with this child being murdered for the sake of our species.
@memphis148 Now WHO is the mixed up dumbass now?! You say that you're fine with abortions when dumbasses have sex, but you also say that you're NOT fine with abortions at all? There are stupid people who raise smart kids!
Forcing a woman to bear a child she doesn't want JUST BECAUSE her husband or boyfriend wants the child DEGRADES women's rights; and it's a one-way ticket to a break-up or a divorce. ANY woman who has a brain would kick the bastard out of her house.
I never said that I am "NOT fine with abortions at all".
I did say that a child's ownership is split equally between father and mother.
On a side (but related) note, your excessive use of exclamation points and capitalized words tells me that you need to raise your voice to make a point in conversation. I bet you resort to yelling during arguments.
@memphis148 I was just getting my point across because there are a bunch of hillbillies on the internet. Your previous comment had said that you didn't mind abortions, then say that you don't like them.
You're a man, aren't you? Yes, the 'ownership' is split, but that's when the kid has already been born. Before that the woman can LEAVE the dumbass.
You like to look down on people, don't you? I point out a couple things and you degrade me by pulling the 'you're such a child' card. It's rude.
@threetailedfox1 I am a man, lover of looking down on people, and above all, a thorough enjoyer of pointing out others' flaws.
The difference between you and me is that I don't give a rat's ass what you or anybody else has to say about me.
Now you are hurt because I am rude. You are going to remember my last paragraph of my previous comment. The next time you find yourself in a debate, you will be losing ground, and resort to escalating your voice, at witch point you will say:
@salantrea A fetus is a group of cells and it isn't even aware of itself. The situations of 'getting rid of a fetus' and 'killing a three-year-old are completely different. The three-year-old has already been born and introduced to the world. A fetus hasn't even taken its first breath yet.
@sweetassuzy And with regards to hitler - well surely if he was aborted we wouldnt have had a 70 000 000... yes - SEVENTY MILLION people genocide from ONE MAN. He grew up that was because he was an outcast!!!
@alconaftika oh wow so u give refrence in the negative....omg u are so stupid!...alright what about people who invented stuff...say the Wright brothers, bill gates, Louis Pasteur..He is remembered for his remarkable breakthroughs in the causes and preventions of diseases. His discoveries reduced mortality from puerperal fever, and he created the first vaccine for rabies and anthrax. OK SO IN YOUR EYES IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OK TO MURDER THESE PEOPLE..your argument is so pathetic...
@alconaftikau u need professional help! u dont just get rid of babies because of what might happen! .....u give these babies a chance to grow and become what God designed them to be!!! i mean u cant even spell correctly, and u sound really backwards to me! ...but u lived! ...so stop playing God with these babies lives...ITS SOOOOOOOOOOO WRONG!!!!
@sweetassuzy They are not babies, they are fetuses. Ooh, you talk of god?!! Well in that case would it not be clever to take what you said into consideration - they are living beings, they are innocent and when they are aborted they go to heaven...what a gift, eh?
@sweetassuzy Look im a theophobe, i dislike any religious teachings with passion, and you might say that i should find jesus and morality, but from what you've said i can see that i have more morality in my baby finger than you can dream of. And another thing - G. Bush, A.Hitler, BinLaden were all deeply religious.
@sweetassuzy Oh my, you are such an arrogant waste of skin...you dont know me, apart from my views on pro-choice, you have no idea who i am, what im like how i live my life and you assume i brought misery to the world, and by "killer" i suppose you mean i perform or have my wife do abortions!!! Again, you have no idea of who i am, what i do, grow up and pull your head out of your "moral" ass.
@alconaftika anyone who agrees to the killing of unborn babies is a very sick individual indeed!...i know enough of what u stand for to see what kind of person u are!...and u are a such a miserable soab!
@sweetassuzy Well yeah, the people who contributed for the progress is good, but remember that they came from wealthy families who could sustain a baby, hitler wasnt that lucky. Growing up in hatred and harsh conditions theres little good you can expect from that person. I never quoted the bible, darling! I said - that you are a sick arrogant retard, unless that is a quote from the bible. I dont remember it being there, but anyhow, its what you are. Good luck saving the world. Jesus is with you!
@alconaftika oh so lets just kill all the babies that WE ASUME are going to live harsh lives! ..u are so backward!...there are millions of babies born into poor families...thats no excuse to kill the baby!....there many are people out there that did start of very poorI..... but they believe that they are the ones who are responsible for their lives, they are the ones who are creating their future, not the economy or knowledge or luck.. let these babies grow up and become SOMEONE!
@sweetassuzy You are a backward sheep. I pity you and your apathetic view of life and of your fellow humans. An unwanted baby brings misery and hardship to a woman, but no you dont take her feelings into consideration. You demand that people do what you want them to and not give them the freedom to live their life as they want to, You are hitler and stalin, just without the political power. I have nothing else to say to you. Good luck!
@sweetassuzy I hate myself now for stooping way down to your level and actually trying to have a reasonable debate with you. I should have known that you are a retard after reading your post that its the fetuses that should decide whether to be born or now. Wipe your drool, read an alphabet or something, and stop wasting your time on the computer. You are not fit for it.
human development is a process that does not cease at the time of birth, then...
...to insist that the unborn at six weeks look like the newborn infant is no more reasonable than to expect the newborn to look like a teenager. If we acknowledge as 'human' a succession of outward forms after birth, there is no reason not to extend that courtesy to the unborn, since human life is a continuum from conception to natural death....and to believe otherwise is SICK!
So, lets see. Both made the choice to have sex. What does a man have to do to have a child? cum. What does a woman have to do? Possibly not cum, sickness, feet swelling, gaining weight, constant peeing, sleepless nights, possible diabetes, hours of pain in labor, pain in delivery, pain in breastfeeding... gee I wonder why the man doesn't get to choose. Oh... wait...
IsTianita 1 week ago 2
If he does not want to be a father, he can sign away his parental rights to the child and he would not have to pay child support.
crystalevans1954 1 month ago
no one has the rights to abortion thats a human life it no different then shooting a toddler
Redgohan147 1 month ago
@Redgohan147 Absolutely right- God bless you.
MrEnlighteneddespot 1 month ago
glad to be in PA. i agree with the result 100% and i'm a guy. the woman has to go through having basically a 9-month parasite and all the hormonal alterations, plus all the years of changed life (better or worse)...
it's sad when viewed in a closed-minded way, i agree, i can see the pro-life side. but there are more miscarriages than abortions, it's not CONSCIOUS at all till 5+ months (LIFE in reality's definition)
taking away potential, so? i do that by the millions often, for fun!
emwaver 3 months ago
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her body her choice, period.
serappia 3 months ago
they are both idiots, put george carlin on
TwistedMentality089 3 months ago
I wonder why there are not many women who argue for fathers rights. A man can just ejaculate and leave.
MetalIsEvolution 7 months ago
@MetalIsEvolution
Most women don't argue for a father's right to protect the life of his pre-born baby because most women don't care. Most women subscribe to the position that she is the only one that matters. The female ego is MASSIVE, as is the death-grip that most women have on the myth of female moral superiority.
DNAisDestiny 1 month ago
@DNAisDestiny What myth, precisely? And on what data do you base your claims about the female ego?
pensandpearls 4 days ago
The fact is, it's not about a man making a choice for a woman- the abortion lady is completely missing the fact that it's really not about either the man or the woman, it's about the UNBORN KID. The baby shouldn't have to have his life at stake because his mother got pregnant and realized she didn't want him.
eurasianchica 8 months ago
A father is no less a parent to this child than the mother, and while killing a baby should NEVER be ok in the first place, if there is a question about it, the father should be able to stand up for his baby's rights.
If he isn't allowed to do this then why is he required to pay child support?
eurasianchica 8 months ago
POP QUIZ (cheat sheet)
1) What does a man have in common with a woman? they are both human! YAY
2) If men could choose not to be a father after conception, can she still be a mother? YES duh
3) When should he be able to choose? when she can!
4) Should men force women into an abortions? NO, that's FORCE
5) Should a woman force a man into child support when he NEVER wanted parenthood and she knew this veeeery well? NO, that's FORCE.
6) Should shared parenting be a presumption when possible? YES
themaniusedtob 8 months ago 5
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Men have no rights in pregnancy.
Bumblybee256 8 months ago
If you give men a legal hand in the decision of an abortion, then women's bodies are thus partially owned by their partners. Are women allowed to decide whether or not her partner gets a vasectomy because she would be partially responsible should a pregnancy occur? Should abusive husbands/boyfriends be given further control over their partners' lives? Perhaps the women should consult their partners, but they should not be legally obligated to. She is the only one who can get pregnant.
pennyxroyalty 9 months ago 3
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@pennyxroyalty says: you give men a legal hand in the decision of an abortion, then women's bodies are thus partially owned by their partners. Are women allowed to decide whether or not her partner gets a vasectomy because she would be partially responsible should a pregnancy occur? Should abusive husbands/boyfriends be given further control over their partners' lives
~~~~~~~~~~~ That was perfection. may I quote you?
Sueezee1 8 months ago
@pennyxroyalty Well, fathers 4 justice is only pushing for shared parenting to become the presumption whenever its possible instead of turning a willing father into bi weekend dad. Actually, just thinking about it scares the crap out of me. how some day a women could do something like that to me and the courts would be fine with it, the majority of the time. Can you imagine if they did that to you? men dont want 2force her 2 birth they just want 2 be able to choose when they start a family etc
themaniusedtob 8 months ago
@pennyxroyalty
The baby is his daughter or son from conception forward.
He has a natural right to protect his daughter or son from conception forward.
That right needs to be enshrined in law.
DNAisDestiny 1 month ago
@pennyxroyalty yes but no one has the right to abortion it is a souless monstrous thing to do regardless of wat is said it is a human life growing inside her and to hkill simply because she is not ready is simply cruel. bottom line no one has the right to abortion
Redgohan147 1 week ago
the guy sounds like a complete idiot.
TurtleMooseKitty 9 months ago 2
It's not about getting fathers a 'say' regarding the abortion of their child.
It's about getting fathers a VETO of the abortion of their child.
And fathers absolutely should have a veto.
WhiteKnight20121 10 months ago
@WhiteKnight20121
An abortion veto for fathers will be very simple:
Require the signature of the mother of the baby and the father of the baby before any abortion.
Nothing in that confers any right for either to compel an abortion unilaterally:
Exactly the opposite, it requires consent of BOTH before an abortion can happen.
With massive fines for fraud levied on both signers in any case where an abortion happens and the man who signed wasn't the father. That would stop many many abortions.
WhiteKnight20121 10 months ago
@WhiteKnight20121 Which would work... if, you know, most abortions occurred because the father just decided to pop out of the woman's life.
CrimsonDaffodils 9 months ago
men want equality of opportunity with the responsibility that comes with it women want equality of outcome without the responsibility
themaniusedtob 10 months ago 12
@themaniusedtob Bullshit. Having an abortion is taking responsibility. Men have no rights over women's bodies and therefore none regarding a pregnancy.
Bumblybee256 8 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Not bullshit, but a sad reality. Why do you relate my comment to 'men forcing a women into anything' instead of relating it to men wanting equal opportunities (with the responsibilities that comes with it) in planned parenthood after conception just like a woman has? a women shouldnt be forced to give birth? no duh!. but in reverse, a man shouldnt be forced after conception, see, a women can force him into indentured servitude$, parenthood etc with her unilateral choice. He cant.
themaniusedtob 8 months ago 6
@themaniusedtob Because giving men rights in pregnancy is not equal opportunity, it is trampling over women. It is not your body that is involved, your sperm does not mark her as your property. I agree, but if he wants to back out I think he should do it around the time she can still choose an abortion. Nobody forces men to sign birth certificates. No equal rights without equal effort, pregnancy is a fundamentally unequal distribution of work that you have no say over.
Bumblybee256 8 months ago
@Bumblybee256 whether they sing birth certificates or not, men cant back out like women have the opportunity to. Giving men equal opportunity to choose parenthood does not trample over women because it does not trample over her choice to have a child or not have one. yes, it IS my body that is involved WHEN she calls child support services and enslaves me into indentured servitude. yes i agree he should be able to back out when she can still choose an abortion, but he cant and thats my point.
themaniusedtob 8 months ago
@Bumblybee256 When you say "giving men rights in pregnancy is not equal opportunity" do you this because men cant give birth? what about women who adopt, but cant give birth? do they deserve the same treatment men get? how about if i told you, women shouldnt have equal opportunities in construction jobs because they do not have equal testosterone so they will do less work and trample over other mens opportunity to work even though they perform less so shoudnt get the opportunity to work?
themaniusedtob 8 months ago
@themaniusedtob (contd) that there is no male analogy. Having sex with someone does not mark their body as your property. What you've just done is drawn an analogy with slavery and equal employment. And no, paying child support is not the same as having your body occupied and used by another human (whilst threatening your life). Men CAN back out and do so all.the.time.
Bumblybee256 8 months ago
@Bumblybee256 There is "no male analogy"? read the definition of the word again.. there is no such thing as an anology that 'doesnt exist'. if i occupy YOU to work against your will to provide me with money for ANY unilateral decision that i have made, that is forced slavery. the analogy is PERFECT.
If a white man forces a black man to work by law against his will to provide this white man with money that indeed is slavery... now change' white man' with woman & boom there you have it.
themaniusedtob 8 months ago 2
@themaniusedtob Er no, there is no male equivalent to pregnancy. I've said it before and I will say it again just for you, as you seem to have conveniently ignored it: you cannot force a man to take a paternity test. Don't play the victim when you know full well that it is overwhelmingly women who are left as single parents with no further support. I live in a community in which men leaving trails of unsupported, fatherless children is common.
Is paying taxes slavery?
Bumblybee256 8 months ago
@Bumblybee256 not an equivalent to pregnancy per say but an equivalent to forced bodily control for a MUCH longer period of time its what i call $indentured servitude for 18 years..... And yes you can force a man to take a dna test... there are many ways to do this like applying for welfare or have your lawyer petition the court for a mandatory pat test and the court sends a letter to him, if he doesnt show up, guess what? he goes to jail for contempt of court... learn your laws abit.
themaniusedtob 8 months ago
@themaniusedtob No, paying money is not the same as having your body physically used by another being- or would you equate rape to paying taxes? You simply do not get this because there is no instance in which men experience it.
Lol no you can't. If a woman wants a paternity test done she has to pay for it.
Bumblybee256 8 months ago
@Bumblybee256 never escapes you.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Umm, through court order, you can force a man to take a paternity test. If that wasnt the case there would be no such thing as child support bc the man could just deny it and get out scott free. The only instance where a man wouldnt be forced to pay is if the woman cant afford a lawyer to get him in court or the man simply has no money to give. And umm, forced labor is no less than sexual slavery. Your body is still being used by another being, just not for sex, for money.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Might be the case where you live, not here. Paying child support is not forced labour anymore than paying taxes is and it is not eqiuivalent to the psychological damage caused by sexual abuse (as I asked below, would you equate this to rape?). IMO one parent should always pay the other child support if the other parent has custody of the child or both agree to adoption.
So the child is using the parents for money, is that right?
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 In some cases yea, the child uses parents for money but thats not usually the case. The child requires money in order to survive in this society, so whether they're being used or not they still have to pay. People kill themselves everyday b/c of the debt they find themselves in b/c their jobs arent enough to pay the taxes, but they cant find better ones so they cant leave. There is just as much psychological trauma in forced labor. You can get over sexual abuse, but labor slavery--
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Well exactly, I don't really see what you're disagreing with. A child is supposed to 'use' parents for money, that is where their resources are meant to come from. And unless both agree to give up to adoption., both shuld contribute.
'You can get over sexual abuse, but labor slavery never escapes you'- this is shockingly ignorant. So in your view if a parent makes a child do house chores against their wishes, that's more damaging than sexually abusing them?
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 No it is not "shockingly ignorant". A woman can overcome being raped,you cant overcome forced labor, until you spontaneously come up with a certain amount of money to get you out of that situation. I wasnt talking about teens not wanting to do their chores, i was talking about people who are dragged into slavery because of them having to live out of pocket after taxes. When people realize that they will never be able to get out of that situation it can be just as traumatizing
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Eh no. You do not heal from rape. It is the ultimate humiliation and degradation. Teens not wanting to do chores and being made to is also forced work. Having to work to live and support your children is not an injustice, it's life.
Get a clue, what you've said is sickening.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 You asked if paying taxes is slavery. Yes it is if you can only afford to pay taxes and nothing else because of your job, if you cant get a better one. This makes you a slave of government and your boss. How does that relate to a teen not wanting to do their chores? And when did i say having to support your children was an injustice? Why dont you get a clue. I've seen many documentaries that affirmed that women CAN overcome rape when they get therapy.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Forcing someone to do any action they don't want to do can be classified as forced labour. The comment you were replying to was addressing someone who said it's an injustice to men that they should be expected to pay for their children. You seem to be saying it's slavery/forced labour- which is injustice. Lol documentaries- sure, they can move on with life that doesn't mean you HEAL from such a violation. It never makes it ok. Go watch some more documentaries.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 There are certain extents of forced labor when it comes to slavery. Thats what im trying to say. You dont seem to be getting that. Forcing someone to work countless hours nonstop can put a traumatizing toll on them. Your telling me you didnt know that? You cant say that sexual abuse is more effective because its just not true and then what proof do you have of that? You seem to be so sure of yourself, so why dont you tell me what you have to buttress your argument.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond You didn't say that, actually. Of course it can be traumatizing, but not as much as being raped.
I suggest you do a search into the psychological effects of rape. Frankly, I'm surprised that you aren't aware that a person's sexual organs are pretty personal. Interesting that you should demand 'proof' from me, while giving none of your own, despite messaging me first.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Oh im sorry. You're the one sitting there so sure that sexual abuse is more traumatizing that slavery and your surprised that i asked you of proof? Really? How can you be so sure of what you're talking about if you have nothing to show for it? Im not saying Slave labor is more intense than sexual abuse. You're the one making all the bold statements not me. Is it really too much to ask of you to show how you know all of this stuff?
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond I just sent you a list of reasons. If you want to research it all do so. I've said nothing about 'intensity', only psychological trauma. I just did, where's yours? Lol, I just 'got smart' with you? Who do you think you are, my mother?
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Dont sit there and say that its not, because then you would be very ignorant. Women will always know that they have been raped and it will pain them to remember, but some do overcome it. Its not impossible. You cant overcome slavery until you're out of that situation.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond I think I will ,dear. You can't overcome rape until you're not being raped anymore either but it's extremely ignorant to say rape doesn't affect a person on a deeper psychological level than other forced activity. I never said it was impossible, I said it's not equivalent to non-sexual forced labour. READ.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 How do you know no woman ever heals from rape. I know read you said, and thats what I was responding to jackass. Dont insult my intelligence when all you've done is sit there and assume that sexual abuse is nowhere near as traumatizing as forced labor. How do you know? You dont. How is sexual assault more effective than slavery, smartguy? Why dont you tell me how intense the psychological trauma of a rape victim is compared to someone who is forced to work for the rest of his life
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond I'm not even trying to insult your intelligence, so if I am it's remarkably easy to make you feel insecure. You clearly don't understand why rapes happen and the effect they have. Actually, what I've said is that sexual abuse is more traumatizing that forced labour. I do know, and I'm a woman dear. Not a guy. Let's see- a rape is about controlling, subjugating, humiliating and degradaing a person in the most intimate way possible. They risk physical trauma, disease and pregnancy
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Oh please, "go watch some more documentaries", "Its extremely ignorant to say...", "READ". Spare me, im not insecure, you just got real smart with me and i didnt appreciate it, if you werent trying to you really should watch your tone. I "understand" everything i need to know about rape and its trauma. I know that its horrible and heinous, i know all of the risks.Tell me how its more intense than that of someone who is forced into slave labor?
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond as well as having their autonomy violated and physically touched and used. Forced labour does not include as many risks and is not a violation of autonomy on such an intimate level. It also does not have the stigma that a rape victim has- which can mean being ostracised from various societies, victim blaming, hard to prove in court and in some countries- being stoned to death for adultery. Is that clear to you yet?
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 It seems like you're trying to make it look like Im downgrading rape and victims of it. I've been studying rape trauma for years and Im planning on becoming a lawyer to put rapists and child molesters in jail. I loathe rapists. I get it, its a terrible thing that could ever happen to someone. But how do you know its more intense than someone who's forced into slave labor? And im not talking about someone who doesnt want to do their chores. i mean victims of bonded and child labor,
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond That's exactly what you're doing and I've just told you why it's more damaging. I know because forced labour is still not as personal as it would be if that person's most intimate organs were being used by. Very simple. I just outlined the reasons. Look into it.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Thats not what im doing. Are you retarded? How is asking you to prove how sexual abuse is more intense, and what i mean by that is psychological trauma ( i thought i made that clear), than slave labor downgrading rape? You're ignorance is way over MY head at this point. You're downgrading the psychological trauma of slavery! Now how smart is that, not to mention offensive. And what reasons did you send me? I didnt get anything.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Use the words you actually mean, not just random ones. To say that rape is less psychologically damaging is to say it's a lesser crime, when it is clearly more damaging. Yes, I am downgrading the trauma of physical forced labour in comparison to forced sexual activity. WELL DONE. The two comments with reasons are 8 and 9 comments down. I suggest you read comments before trying to reply.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 All i saw was you saying that the woman's organs are being violated and that its personal. So slavery isnt. There are millions of children being sold and bought in at least 70 different countries so that they can do back-breaking work and only have bread and water for sustenance, and you think rape is worse because their body is being violated and used. There are children all over the world whose bodies are being used. Their free will is violated as well. So what else?
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Of course slavery is 'personal', but use of someone's sexual organs is even more so. It really doesn't take massive brainpower to observe human society and see that genitalia and their use is a private and personal thing.
The more personally something is felt the greater the psychological effect. I'm not repeating this to you anymore, I find it astonishing that you need to be told.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Your argument is weak as hell. Sexual abuse is a qualification of slavery, idiot. Human trafficking, forced prostitution, how the hell is it worse than slavery when it is slavery?
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Yes, and those forms of slavery that include a component of sexual abuse are more damaging to the individual than ones that don't. Not too bright are you?
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Mhmm, but what did you say? "Forcing someone to do any action they don't want to do can be classified as forced labour", "Forced labour does not include as many risks and is not a violation of autonomy on such an intimate level","Yes, I am downgrading the trauma of physical forced labour in comparison to forced sexual activity" It seems that not only do you contradict yourself severely, but your not even smart enough to know when your doing it. I was 'bright' enough to catch it.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Lol, I have not contradicted myself once there. I have maintained that while forced labour is bad, any sexual abuse makes it worse. My my, you're truly on a roll.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Dude you are truly dumb. There's really no way to put it, your a dumbass. You cant say that sexual abuse is worse than forced labor when its a type of forced labor idiot. You get it? Is it clicking?
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Are you in a special class? It's hard to comprehend how someone can be told something so many times and yet still fail to grasp it. It would probably be preferable to do this with sock puppets: Any.abuse.containing.a.sexual.component.is.worse.than.abuse.that.does.not.
You'll probably still fail to grasp that and continue to call others 'dumb' in your frustration but it's been amusing.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 You're a fucking disgrace! Whats amusing is that your sitting there trying to clean yourself up when you've already fucked up. You did not say that "any abuse containing a sexual component is worse than abuse that isnt". You never said that. You said sexual abuse is worse than forced labor, thats what you said. Your dumb as shit, there's really no point in trying to deny it now. So i hope you had fun making a fool of yourself
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Actually, I have consistently said just that. Don't blame others for your poor comprehension ability. Forced labour is not synonymous with sexual abuse. Forced labour is physical toil. Both of these can be slavery.
You're embarrassing yourself.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Talking of abuse, do you realise how abusive you're coming across? It must be a joy to be around you in real life if this is how you are towards strangers.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Oh please, i didnt start getting pissed until you came at me with that condescending tone. If you dont want to get cussed out, you should probably work on that."Forced labour is not synonymous with sexual abuse?" So sex trafficking isnt a type of sexual abuse? Lets think, what is sexual abuse:The forcing of unwanted sexual activity by one person on another, as by the use of threats or coercion. sexual trafficking:coercion of unwilling people into different sexual practices
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Lol don't blame others for your poor behaviour, that's your responsibility.
*sigh* lmao, no. You clearly don't know what synonymous means. Forced labour does not NECESSARILY equate to sexual abuse. It's not an interchangeble term. You're way over your head.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Yea, and why dont you think about what your going to type before you type, dummy. Toodles!
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 Sexual trafficking and sexual abuse is the same thing idiot. Go back to school
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 And IM embarrassing myself, please. Everything that came out of your mouth is bullshit.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Lol. Think twice before getting involved in discussions that are over your head. That's your parting message, little angry one. Bye bye.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 What the hell do you mean you didnt contradict yourself, YOU SAID that forcing someone to do what they dont want to do is forced labor (that includes sexual trafficking), and then you turn around and say that forced sexual activity should be downgraded as a comparison to physical forced labor. Its the same THING! Go read a fucking book lol! At first, i was convinced you had an education but now, you've really outdone your stupidity. Congratulations.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond "that forced sexual activity should be downgraded as a comparison to physical forced labor." Nope, other way round. You just get better and better. No, it's not the same thing. 1. Not all sexual abuse takes place in a trafficking context. 2. That which does take place in this context is more damaging than slavery without a sexual component.
It's so unbelievably simple, dear.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 It is the same thing idiot. Forced prostitution is putting in sexual work that you dont want to do. And you said yourself that forced labor is doing something you dont want to do. Forced labor is a very wide subject, sexual trafficking is included in it. But its also the same thing b/c sleeping with 10 guys a night is work (labor) and being forced to do it makes it forced labor. So get your shit together. You contradicted yourself, there's no way you can prove otherwise
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Nope, I think it was very clear from the discussion that a distinction was made between using someone sexually/using their organs and forcing a man (for eg) to work to pay for his kids.
I have already distinguished between using someone sexually and making them do manual labour, no matter how much you try to twist it.
Lol, the proof is in writing on this page. NIce try, dear. I'm leaving you to your nasty ways, some of us have things to do. I won't be reading your abusive msgs.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 All you've been saying is that sexual abuse is worse than slavery. YOU typed that! Where is the distinction? Go ahead and leave b/c you've apparently embarrassed yourself enough. Every word you've typed has been a contradiction and your sitting there trying to make up for by saying "it was very clear it was a distinction". It was very clear that when i typed "intense" i meant more traumatic, but you got technical and scrutinized me for it. Now im going to call you out on your b.s.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 You said numerous times that sexual abuse is worse than slavery and/or forced labor. But guess what, sexual trafficking is a type of forced labor, and forced labor is just another word for slavery, so go kill yourself dumbass. Sexual abuse cant be worse than slavery if its a type of slavery.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond I never denied that sexual abuse could be slavery. As I JUST SAID: instances which include a component of sexual abuse are more damaging than those that don't.
"so go kill yourself dumbass" Lol, I don't think you need me to point out how idiotic you look now. I'll leave you to your stupidity.
Bumblybee256 7 months ago
@Bumblybee256 slavery by descent, plantation labor, mine labor. That's the kind of slavery im referring to.
Aliyahdiamond 7 months ago
@themaniusedtob Men cannot back out legally have you even read ANY of the laws?? unless the women ALLOWS you to.. you cant back out thats not even debatable go ask a lawyer (I have one in the family) and then tell me if he will agree with you when you say men can back out. just because they leave doesnt mean they are doing it legally.. now im starting to think you are debating something you only know one side of.. we are drawing circles
themaniusedtob 8 months ago 2
@themaniusedtob and again: you cannot force a man to take a paternity test.
Bumblybee256 8 months ago
@Bumblybee256 like you would say 'her body her choice' WE could also say our bodies, our wallets, our freedoms and our choice too..... We wouldnt say these thing to "bullshit" you, but we would advocate (and do) such things in order to attempt to attain these human rights in which have been granted/dominated by women, in order for us men to be... how do i put it? oh yeah, have EQUAL opportunity to choose
themaniusedtob 8 months ago 3
@themaniusedtob Did I not just say that you should also be able to back out? Are you having problems reading? If you sign the birth certificate you are taking on that responsibility. Rights dominated by women???? Did women ask to be women?? It still sounds like you're saying men should have rights over a pregnancy, I doubt you can substantiate that without causing me to laugh in your face.
Bumblybee256 8 months ago
@Bumblybee256 You dont understand how this law works. Google what happens when a man doesn't sign a birth certificate, he only looses the RIGHTS to that child NOT the responsibilities$ ever to that child UNLESS another man signs as a father & the court DECIDES to transfer that babies rights over to the new dad. Please research before stating its "bullshit" & for Christ sake, I NEVER said a man should have control over a womans body or ability to choose. Men could choose, & not force. u know?
themaniusedtob 8 months ago 2
@themaniusedtob Um no, you cannot force men to take paternity tests. Men can easily run out on women after getting them pregnant and do so all the time, shirking any responsibility. When I say men have no pregnancy I mean nobody but the a pregnant woman can make choices about that pregnancy, whether that's other women or a man. Your analogy to construction work is ludicrous. Giving men pregnancy rights tramples over the autonomy of women and makes no sense, your problem is (contd)
Bumblybee256 8 months ago
It's simple: the man has no choice. It's the woman's choice. The end. Get over it.
CrimsonDaffodils 11 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils
damn straight
TheHuntress144 10 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils ummm, you kill my child we are going to have a problem
FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 10 months ago
@FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 Why would the woman decide to get an abortion if the man wanted to take care of it? There must have been other issues involved that she didn't tell anyone about. Perhaps the child wasn't even his. Ever think about it? Or perhaps he was abusive. Perhaps she had a genetic disorder, or the child had a genetic disorder that would kill it. But you know what? The "maybes" aren't enough to substantiate it. It's a woman's choice, not a man's.
CrimsonDaffodils 10 months ago
@FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 Hell, it's a woman's place. Do you know how many men actually mean it when they say they're gonna take care of the baby? What if the man had asked her to marry him, and she didn't want to drop her life and abandon the baby? That is often the case in such situations. You do not have to deal with the repercussions of a pregnancy the way a woman who is pregnant would have to. The baby may be yours, but it's in her - or my - body. Deal with it. Wear a condom.
CrimsonDaffodils 10 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils i do wear a condom, they fail sometimes, and it is also illegal to get an abortion after 12 weeks unless there are health risks which i would want her to get an abortion if she wanted it).
FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 10 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils Ummm, if that was the end, there wouldnt be a debate honey. And if the baby is also the man's then he has every right to care for that baby. Unless your gonna die b/c of the pregnancy, its completely immoral for a woman to kill a child that the "father" was more than willing to care for. If you care so less about the child, then why not give it away. This bitch was probably so worried about her weight or reputation that she just didnt give a shit. its sad that u support that.
Aliyahdiamond 9 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Again, read my comments. You don't know the situation. The woman in question may not have wanted to abandon a life and a career (that she was OBVIOUSLY worried about - you know, her being in college and all) for her to drop out for a semester and have a baby. Plus, the physical risk that having a child carries is substantial enough to make it more a woman's choice than a man's - for instance, having a child can cause uterine scarring, which can make a woman infertile.
CrimsonDaffodils 9 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils And i love how u brought up the fact that she would've had to make up a semester of school if she would've had the baby. Oh wow, wat a bummer. "Oh i dont wanna miss any school days, my life will be ruined, i'll just kill the baby. It's the best decision to make for me".i love how ppl dnt like to acknowledge the fact that some things are more than ur reputation or 'career', im sorry,like a human life.u jus basically said that her career was more important than that baby.
Aliyahdiamond 9 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond says: u jus basically said that her career was more important than that baby.
~~~~~~~~~~ It is, but uneducated people dont realize that or why its so.
Sueezee1 8 months ago
@Sueezee1 Bitch Fuck u! Dont call me uneducated just because your selfish ass thinks its ok to murder a child so you can pursue a career you asshole. There is no way you can prove that a career is more important than a life, dumbass so you should'nt have even went there. How dare you try to come at me like it's fact that the woman is more important than a baby. Next time you want to question someone's education you better come correct and that means including logic and facts, genius.
Aliyahdiamond 8 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond says: Dont call me uneducated just because your selfish ass thinks its ok to murder a child
~~~~~~~~~
I dont..i do it because your uneducated.. can you imagine ME calling you uneducated because IM prochoice?? hahahahahahahah..thats a good one, you uneducated little twit.
Sueezee1 8 months ago
@Sueezee1 You dont make any damn sense, you know that. "I dont. I do it b/c your uneducated?" Its very obvious that your fucking with me so im gonna just end this here. Comment all you want, im not even gonna read it.
Aliyahdiamond 8 months ago
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@Aliyahdiamond says: There is no way you can prove that a career is more important than a life,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is no way you can prove that a life is more important than a career. Wow, that was deep...lol
Sueezee1 8 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond says: How dare you try to come at me like it's fact that the woman is more important than a baby
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How dare you try to come at me like it's fact that the baby is more important than a woman.
Sueezee1 8 months ago
@Sueezee1 I never said the baby is more important than the woman. I wanna know when i said that?
Aliyahdiamond 8 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond says: Next time you want to question someone's education you better come correct
~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd better come correct???? What the hell does that mean, Mr. Intelligent??? lolol.
Sueezee1 8 months ago
@Sueezee1 Oh im sorry for not dumbing it down for you, that was my fault. Coming correct means to know what the hell you're talking about and knowing it well before you make a blank statement without buttressing your argument nd then having the nerve to insult someone's intelligence at the same time. And its Ms. Intelligent honey. Unless you know a guy named Aliyah or Diamond.
Aliyahdiamond 8 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond says:means to know what the hell you're talking
~~~~~~~~ And, I DO...thats why MY ideas mesh with the laws that make abortion legal, and your uneducated ones cant change that.
Sueezee1 8 months ago
@Sueezee1 See, this is exactly what im talking about. You call me uneducated and you dont even prove it. Thats supposed to hurt me. What ideas moron? The only thing you said is that a mother's career is more important than a baby. Thats your idea? Thats why you think abortion is legal, b/c politics feel that a career is more important than a life. And then your calling me uneducated? Thats hilarious! Why dont YOU go get and education, you need it more than me.
Aliyahdiamond 8 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils nd just in case u dnt feel like droppin the health risk topic,let me go ahead nd say this,if every woman killed her kid b/c of fear of the health risks,me,u,ur family,my family,half of the world,would not be here.if she was ready to have a baby she wouldve taken those risks w/ open arms.but b/c she FEARED the breaking of her career,uterus,welfare of the child w/ its father its ok to kill the baby.even tho those risks were the same for all the women who had kids nd was normal
Aliyahdiamond 9 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond I've said this a million times, and I'll say it again: you do not know her situation. The father may have been abusive. The mother may have judged him to be unfit to raise her child. The mother may have wanted the father to get his degree and have a career before being saddled with a child. I don't know either party, but it really seems like this guy is a domineering prick - he wanted to control his ex-girlfriend's life to the extent that he wanted to force her to have a baby.
CrimsonDaffodils 9 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils so u can go ahead nd stop w/ the all the medical arguments u keep throwin at me cuz apparently that has nothing to do with THIS debate.i commented on this debate, so there's no point in bringing up somethin thats not focused on THIS debate.nd even if the woman judged him unfit to raise the child.wat the hell the happened to adoption.i mean did ppl jus forget about that or what.if u dnt wanna raise the child, then give it up for adoption.
Aliyahdiamond 9 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils thats not exacly controlling her life.if it has something to do with the killing of ur child, im sure its alot more than that so lets be realistic.if ur wife didnt want to raise a retarted child nd killed it even wen u still wanted it, that would be wrong. on top of the fact that her ass would be thrown in jail.but its perfectly ok wen its still in ur body even though ur doing the exact same thing.its unjust!
Aliyahdiamond 9 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Which brings up my next point: even if he WAS fit to take care of a baby, do we know why the mother got the abortion? Does it really matter whether we do or not? Even if she wasn't in danger because of the pregnancy, she could have suffered other complications, such as uterine prolapse or scarring, that are common when giving birth and can make it impossible to conceive again. An abortion has less chance of causing infertility than giving birth does.
CrimsonDaffodils 9 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils nd let me go ahead nd say this, if this had anything to do w/ the woman fearing uterine prolapse nd scarring nd all the other things u kept mentioning for some reason, this wouldnt be a debate just about a man's right to have a say in abortion.this would be a debate about trying to force a woman to have a baby when those risks are damn well near.if this had anything to do with that the lady would have brought that up in the debate, but since she didnt, it doesnt apply
Aliyahdiamond 9 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond According to your logic, a man should be able to force his pregnant girlfriend/mistress to get an abortion if he wanted her to. It goes both ways - and honestly, I'd rather leave the choice with the person who has to deal with the repercussions of giving birth for the rest of her life. Despite what you think, most women are moral enough to not get an abortion because of weight gain or reputation - there's usually an underlying reason, and it's not my job to ask her what it is.
CrimsonDaffodils 9 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils .where the hell did u come up w/ my logic cuz i jus read my comment nd thats not wat i said.if a woman wants to care for a baby, then she can.so y cant it be the same for the man.u keep talkin about all these effects child birth can have on a woman, so according to ur logic, scarring is worth killing ur child, a child that someone is more than willing to care for.its so funny how u try to make this all about the woman.the world does not revolve all around the woman
Aliyahdiamond 9 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils But alot of people suffer its just the way life is.Im sure alot of ppl dont want to care a mentally challenged or deformed child b/c of the hard work nd the frustration, but does give them the right to kill it.Im sure alot of ppl dont want to deal with a misbehaving deviant who causes them nothin but grief nd stress but does that give them the right to kill it.wat is the big difference b/w that and the baby still being in ur stomach. there's not a big difference at all.
Aliyahdiamond 9 months ago
@Aliyahdiamond Calling her a "bitch" just shows how judgmental you - and people like you - are. Again - you have no idea what this woman is going through, you have no idea why she got the abortion, and you won't be the one who judges her crimes. God is. She's already doomed to fire and brimstone according to you, so why do you have to throw stones at her? It's not like you punishing her now is gonna save her later, and it's probably just going to count against you.
CrimsonDaffodils 9 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils wat the hell are you talking about? yea im bein judgemental but that has nothin to do with her burning in fire nd all that other shit u were talkin about.i was jus sayin unless she was going to die or have some kind of defect b/c of the child birth, she has no reason to take away someone's child even though it may be in her body, but that doesnt mean its all about her.nd i called her a bitch cuz in my mind she is one.u cant be a gud person killin children cuz its best 4 u.
Aliyahdiamond 9 months ago
@CrimsonDaffodils the baby is in her body, but its not all about her.having an abortion affects so many people including the father, so if she kills it wen the father wants to care for it, its completely unjust.nd wat do u mean she's already doomed for fire according to me. u dont anything about me smartguy.nothing in my comment even hinted that i was some kind of Jesus freak.stop makin assumptions about me nd my logic, ur way off! its very unfortunate that the woman has to have the effects.rite
Aliyahdiamond 9 months ago
listen to how she calls the so called fetus a BABY a LIVING PERSON!
pmills076 11 months ago
If my boyfriend or husband wants to force me to have a baby, I'm leaving him for good, and getting rid of the fetus. Women should have control over her own life and more importantly, her own body. Taking that right away diminishes equal rights.
100% of men don't get pregnant. It's that simple. If the guy wants a kid, take him to an orphanage and let him adopt one; not force his girlfriend (or wife) to have a child she doesn't want.
threetailedfox1 1 year ago
@threetailedfox1 a child is 50% father, 50% mother. NOT 100% mother. What if your parents told you they almost aborted you?
memphis148 1 year ago
@memphis148 It's HER body. Not ONE part of her is also part of the father. Yes, the baby is half and half, but it' inside of the woman, not the man. It's HER body that's carrying it; not HIS (unless he's a seahorse). The father should not be in control of the woman's life!
Uh, YEAH! My mom DID tell me that they almost aborted me! My bio-father didn't WANT me and kept taking my mom to the abortion clinics! And when I was a toddler he used me as a sex toy! He still spanked me when I was 13!
threetailedfox1 1 year ago
@threetailedfox1 I guess this explains how mixed up you are. I am only for abortions when they raise the intelligence of subsequent generations. Two dumbasses have sex. Child will most likely be a dumbass. I have little problem with this child being murdered for the sake of our species.
memphis148 1 year ago
@memphis148 Now WHO is the mixed up dumbass now?! You say that you're fine with abortions when dumbasses have sex, but you also say that you're NOT fine with abortions at all? There are stupid people who raise smart kids!
Forcing a woman to bear a child she doesn't want JUST BECAUSE her husband or boyfriend wants the child DEGRADES women's rights; and it's a one-way ticket to a break-up or a divorce. ANY woman who has a brain would kick the bastard out of her house.
threetailedfox1 1 year ago
@threetailedfox1 You put words into my mouth.
I never said that I am "NOT fine with abortions at all".
I did say that a child's ownership is split equally between father and mother.
On a side (but related) note, your excessive use of exclamation points and capitalized words tells me that you need to raise your voice to make a point in conversation. I bet you resort to yelling during arguments.
memphis148 1 year ago
@memphis148 I was just getting my point across because there are a bunch of hillbillies on the internet. Your previous comment had said that you didn't mind abortions, then say that you don't like them.
You're a man, aren't you? Yes, the 'ownership' is split, but that's when the kid has already been born. Before that the woman can LEAVE the dumbass.
You like to look down on people, don't you? I point out a couple things and you degrade me by pulling the 'you're such a child' card. It's rude.
threetailedfox1 1 year ago
@threetailedfox1 I am a man, lover of looking down on people, and above all, a thorough enjoyer of pointing out others' flaws.
The difference between you and me is that I don't give a rat's ass what you or anybody else has to say about me.
Now you are hurt because I am rude. You are going to remember my last paragraph of my previous comment. The next time you find yourself in a debate, you will be losing ground, and resort to escalating your voice, at witch point you will say:
memphis148 1 year ago
@memphis148 I'm not hurt, I'm annoyed, you ass.
threetailedfox1 1 year ago
@threetailedfox1 You will remember.
memphis148 1 year ago
@memphis148 Why should I listen to a rude person who I don't know?
We're both wrong, and this conversation is over. Goodbye.
threetailedfox1 1 year ago
@threetailedfox1 Damn, that guy on youtube was correct.
memphis148 1 year ago
@threetailedfox1 I probably wouldn't have said that, but hey.
JonnyPxN 1 year ago
abortion is murder plain an simple.
salantrea 1 year ago
@salantrea A fetus is a group of cells and it isn't even aware of itself. The situations of 'getting rid of a fetus' and 'killing a three-year-old are completely different. The three-year-old has already been born and introduced to the world. A fetus hasn't even taken its first breath yet.
What do you call war, pro-LIFE person?
threetailedfox1 1 year ago
he sounds dumb
TheSaboteur97 1 year ago
pro death people are like modern day hitlers,... slaughtering the next generation!... U CANT GET MORE EVIL THAN THAT!!!!!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
@sweetassuzy And with regards to hitler - well surely if he was aborted we wouldnt have had a 70 000 000... yes - SEVENTY MILLION people genocide from ONE MAN. He grew up that was because he was an outcast!!!
alconaftika 1 year ago
@alconaftika oh wow so u give refrence in the negative....omg u are so stupid!...alright what about people who invented stuff...say the Wright brothers, bill gates, Louis Pasteur..He is remembered for his remarkable breakthroughs in the causes and preventions of diseases. His discoveries reduced mortality from puerperal fever, and he created the first vaccine for rabies and anthrax. OK SO IN YOUR EYES IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OK TO MURDER THESE PEOPLE..your argument is so pathetic...
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
@alconaftikau u need professional help! u dont just get rid of babies because of what might happen! .....u give these babies a chance to grow and become what God designed them to be!!! i mean u cant even spell correctly, and u sound really backwards to me! ...but u lived! ...so stop playing God with these babies lives...ITS SOOOOOOOOOOO WRONG!!!!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
@sweetassuzy They are not babies, they are fetuses. Ooh, you talk of god?!! Well in that case would it not be clever to take what you said into consideration - they are living beings, they are innocent and when they are aborted they go to heaven...what a gift, eh?
alconaftika 1 year ago
@sweetassuzy Look im a theophobe, i dislike any religious teachings with passion, and you might say that i should find jesus and morality, but from what you've said i can see that i have more morality in my baby finger than you can dream of. And another thing - G. Bush, A.Hitler, BinLaden were all deeply religious.
alconaftika 1 year ago
@alconaftika i dont give a stuff what u like..i hope i offend u, your a pathetic joke telling me off for quoting the bible!..tooooo bad! KILLER!!!!!!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
@sweetassuzy Oh my, you are such an arrogant waste of skin...you dont know me, apart from my views on pro-choice, you have no idea who i am, what im like how i live my life and you assume i brought misery to the world, and by "killer" i suppose you mean i perform or have my wife do abortions!!! Again, you have no idea of who i am, what i do, grow up and pull your head out of your "moral" ass.
alconaftika 1 year ago
@alconaftika anyone who agrees to the killing of unborn babies is a very sick individual indeed!...i know enough of what u stand for to see what kind of person u are!...and u are a such a miserable soab!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
@sweetassuzy Well yeah, the people who contributed for the progress is good, but remember that they came from wealthy families who could sustain a baby, hitler wasnt that lucky. Growing up in hatred and harsh conditions theres little good you can expect from that person. I never quoted the bible, darling! I said - that you are a sick arrogant retard, unless that is a quote from the bible. I dont remember it being there, but anyhow, its what you are. Good luck saving the world. Jesus is with you!
alconaftika 1 year ago
@alconaftika oh so lets just kill all the babies that WE ASUME are going to live harsh lives! ..u are so backward!...there are millions of babies born into poor families...thats no excuse to kill the baby!....there many are people out there that did start of very poorI..... but they believe that they are the ones who are responsible for their lives, they are the ones who are creating their future, not the economy or knowledge or luck.. let these babies grow up and become SOMEONE!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
@sweetassuzy You are a backward sheep. I pity you and your apathetic view of life and of your fellow humans. An unwanted baby brings misery and hardship to a woman, but no you dont take her feelings into consideration. You demand that people do what you want them to and not give them the freedom to live their life as they want to, You are hitler and stalin, just without the political power. I have nothing else to say to you. Good luck!
alconaftika 1 year ago
@alconaftika an unwanted baby to one person, but could bring great joy to adopted parents....your one sick puppy!!!!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
@alconaftika just because u brought a lot of misery into the world, doesnt mean every person born is going to be as pathetic and sick as u are...
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
@sweetassuzy I hate myself now for stooping way down to your level and actually trying to have a reasonable debate with you. I should have known that you are a retard after reading your post that its the fetuses that should decide whether to be born or now. Wipe your drool, read an alphabet or something, and stop wasting your time on the computer. You are not fit for it.
alconaftika 1 year ago
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@alconaftika i would hate myself if i was u to!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
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@alconaftika i would hate myself it i was u to!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
human development is a process that does not cease at the time of birth, then...
...to insist that the unborn at six weeks look like the newborn infant is no more reasonable than to expect the newborn to look like a teenager. If we acknowledge as 'human' a succession of outward forms after birth, there is no reason not to extend that courtesy to the unborn, since human life is a continuum from conception to natural death....and to believe otherwise is SICK!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
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@alconaftika i can understand why u hate yourself so much! your frickin evil...
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
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@alconaftika oh i would hate myself to if i was u!!!!!!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
WHO SHOULD DECIDE? THE BABY!!!!!!
sweetassuzy 1 year ago
@sweetassuzy It can't, it's not developed enough.
rsgirl10 1 year ago