The Truth About the Employee Free Choice Act

[jawday12345]

I know a carpenter who will only do union jobs. He can't find work in the whole state, only sporadically in the surrounding states. He has three kids and a wife.  His loyalty to the union is destroying his family. In fact, his wife just left him. Just thought I'd put that out there.

[eyallev]

@jawday12345 so, when you said that he has three kids and a wife, you basiclly lied, right?

and it's not the union that is destroying him, it's his choices

[IWLocal8]

Looks like as I write this, "card check" is out of the EFCA. (attended a Building Trades Conference yesterday)Now what's the major point against passing it?

[888NOUNION]

Sorry. It's been a while. Drop binding arbitration, add equal penalties for unions and it should be an okay bill.

[IWLocal8]

Not a problem - been busy myself.

Arbitration is usually a lose-lose situation. Penalize Unions for what?

[888NOUNION]

Here's the problem as I see it with today's unions and EFCA: The marketplace for their ideas are relying solely on the government as the solution. If EFCA goes through with binding arbitration, there will be a whole lot of people becoming unemployed--we're figuring an additional 5%. Continued...

[888NOUNION]

In the construction industry, we're hearing that rank-and-file guys (mainly IBEW and PPF) are pissed at the leadership for pushing EFCA because there's already too many on the benches and, the mom and pops who become unionized will go out, which adds to the bench.

Having been on both sides, we see the only unions benefitting from EFCA are those who are in industries that cannot be subcontracted or outsourced--which is not many. SEIU would be about the biggest that I can think of.

[888NOUNION]

I'll check back in a week or so, to see your answers to the above.

BTW: These debates are enjoyable. Too bad they don't happen more often!

[IWLocal8]

I agree - wish everyone could be civil and disagree.

[888NOUNION]

Also, since union organizers are legally allowed to lie to workers (which was affirmed by the NLRB again on May 29th), how does card-check make the process fair?

[IWLocal8]

NLR Act has been in place since 1935 that calls for "card check". It's what's been in place. Would I have a problem with ADDING a secret ballot - no. Truth is, the EFCA dosn't take away a secret ballot and that's a HUGE lie that influences a lot of people who don't do their own homework. What lie are you referring to? Is this a claim that nonunion companies don't lie?

[888NOUNION]

Read the bill. If a majority sign 'authorizations,' the Board will not schedule an election. What (good) organizer goes to election without a majority of cards signed?

[888NOUNION]

P.S. Does your union engage in salting like the other trades do?

[IWLocal8]

Yes, but very rarely.

[888NOUNION]

Oh Man! No wonder I have a cleaner conscience since leaving the union movement. If the words "the Board shall not direct an election" is not plain enough, you guys aren't just trying to fool American, you've fooled yourselves too!

[888NOUNION]

You are, in fact, incorrect about EFCA.

Here is the relevant text in EFCA:

If the Board finds that a majority of the employees in a unit appropriate for bargaining has signed valid authorizations.... the Board shall not direct an election but shall certify the individual or labor organization as the representative described in subsection (a)

What about "NOT direct an election" do you not understand?

[IWLocal8]

What part of "does not currently exist" are you having difficulty with? The EFCA does not take away any secret ballot!

[IWLocal8]

There currently is NO secret ballot in place. The EFCA actually adds one. Please educate yourselves - read the Bill and compare it to the current process.

[IWLocal8]

It's pretty telling that the all of the ads in favor of the EFCA (on YouTube) allow comment without being censored. MANY (Bravo to this one for allowing discussion) of those videos against Unions must be posted "Pending Approval". Censorship. I hope that says a lot about who is looking out for our Freedoms.

[888NOUNION]

As former union leaders, we have no problem with dissenting opinions. In fact, several of us left the union movement due to the lack of dissention (among other reasons).

The problem with a lot of commenters is the lack of civility when discussing these issues. Though understandable, given the paranoia that exists on both sides of the union issue, it does not help foster open dialogue.

[IWLocal8]

Already gave you a thumbs up for being one of the few anti-Union vids to allow freedom of speech - not so with the NRTW vids (many at least) or similar groups. I have difficulty believing you are a former Union leader though, but, that's another issue.

[888NOUNION]

Consider this: Samuel Gompers, George Meany and a whole host of traditional union leaders would have never approved of today's union leaders.

When many of us discovered the reality of today's union leaders vs. what we believed in and realized there was no chance for us to co-exist in a movement headed by these people, we left.

Traditionalists would not want a process like EFCA, because while it may benefit the unions for a time, the pendulum swings.

[IWLocal8]

Being a Union leader, I can assure you that you are VERY mistaken - even through your vague claim.

Pendulum swinging? Unions have been under the guillotine for the last 8 years.

The EFCA is for every working person who would like to get a liveable wage. When you get rid of greed, Unions might not be necessary.

Glad to see you not arguing that the EFCA takes away the secret ballot as you previously claimed.

Have a great day.

[888NOUNION]

LOL! There is only so much space to cover on these replies. EFCA does (effectively) take away the secret ballot, as so stated in the bill.

Additionally, unions haven't been under the guillotine for the last 8 years...the union business model has not been updated since the economy started to swing in the 1970s and, what you see to day won't be rectified by EFCA. EFCA will only prolong the inevitable while causing many more to lose their jobs.

[IWLocal8]

Please show me where the secret ballot currently exists. It doesn't, therefore no secret ballot will be removed.

You think bush's DoL Sec wasn't chopping off Unions' heads? That's cause to LOL. The employers are the ones who fire people for trying to Organize, not the Unions. EFCA makes intimidation illegal.

[UnionsForJustice]

Here's a hint to you people lacking class consciousness: YOU"RE NOT RICH! THE EMPLOYERS AREN"T TRYING TO HELP YOU THROUGH THESE HARD TIMES - THEY"RE LOOKING-OUT FOR THEMSELVES!

All wealth is built by labor! Support the EFCA!

[888NOUNION]

And the last time a union created a job was?...

Today's unions are parasites, sucking the lifeblood from America.

There was once a time when unions were needed. However, today's unions are better at destroying jobs and industries than helping workers.

The evidence is overwhelming, but only if you open your eyes.

[UnionsForJustice]

Seriously...unions aren't needed? At a time like this when management's greed will be running rampant to survive in harsh times, the workers need a voice to preserve their rights and a sense of dignity.

Unfortunately, management will not be concerned about worker rights during this economic comeback. Unions will be.

My eyes are open...and so is my mind. It's also PART of a collective mind, one that will not be stopped, one that will not be slowed or bought. EFCA is coming....deal with it!

[UnionsForJustice]

Also, can you please show me some evidence to your fear-invoking claims, i.e., industries which have been destroyed by unions AND how they're "sucking the lifeblood from America."

In addition to my eyes being open, I'm looking at the whole world. Meanwhile, your view is obstructed by class unconsciousness and those few who benefit from such oppressive systems. Newsflash: THE RICH, CORPORATE WORLD DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE WORKING MAN! The only things trickling down to us are hardships and blame.

[IWLocal8]

Our Union created 4 jobs yesterday by taking in 4 apprentices off of the street. We'll now take the next three years and train them how to be safe and productive. We'll also give them a liveable wage and health care.(training provided with use of our dues) Couldn't tell you how many jobs we've created throughout the 100+ years of our Union's existance.

Horrible, aren't we?

[FluxCapacitor2008]

3: In addition to helping workers win better wages and benefits, unions help all workers by giving working families a stronger voice in our communities, in the political arena, and in the global economy.

4:By joining together, we can build the strength to hold elected officials accountable, stop the "race to the bottom" by employers who cut wages and benefits in favor of bigger profits, and win improvements such as affordable, quality health care for all.

[FluxCapacitor2008]

1: A voice in Washington, as organized workers we have push back power against the ultra rich power base that has hijacked our government.

2: Working together, union members have the strength to win better wages, affordable health care, a secure retirement, and safer workplaces for union and non union workers.

[FluxCapacitor2008]

Ok lets add anti socialist fear monger to the list (I got mine screw you types)

Thanks for adding to the list.

[FluxCapacitor2008]

2: They are business owners that do not offer benefits or a fair wage and dont want to.

3: They have been raised in a union bashing family and cant think for themselves.

4: They are holding a gouge because they had a bad experience with a union.

5: They have been brainwashed by the main stream media thats ran by the ultra rich and they dont realize they are screwing them selfs

[888NOUNION]

LOL! Try none of the above. In fact, we've probably seen more from the inside of multiple unions than you'll ever see in a lifetime.

[FluxCapacitor2008]

Ok lets add anti socialist fear monger to the list (I got mine screw you types)

Thanks for adding to the list.

[FluxCapacitor2008]

Lets be honest about our intentions, I want more people in unions.

Im not a union organizer; I have worked in a non union shop for 10 years and 11 years in a union shop as a skilled trades person. I will not go back to non union because I would have to take a pay and benefits cut. The following is why I think we need to organize the middle class.

[888NOUNION]

If you're that good at what you do, why don't you start your own business (when the economy improves)?

It sounds as though you like letting other people take the risk with their capital and want the union to fall back on.

[FluxCapacitor2008]

Please give some bullet points on how unions are bad for workers. Other then the evil union bosses.

[FluxCapacitor2008]

WTF the wing nuts are acting like unions are some evil entity WRONG!!! Unions are groups of working families trying to make life better for themselves and others. So you have to question the motives of the union busters. Union buster fall in to one or more of the following>

1: They are GOP voters that are bitter working union families have some political power and used it to vote republicans out democrats in because they vote for labor more often.

[888NOUNION]

LMAO Now!!! If you think today's unions are "groups of working families trying to make life better for themselves..." you're delusional. Today's unions are a multi-billion dollar industry where the majority of today's members never voted to unionize but are union as a condition of employment. You need a dose of reality, instead of some misguided rhetoric spouted from the podium at a union meeting.

[FluxCapacitor2008]

EFCA is about the needs of the majority not 5 out of a 1000 people. Right to work is about dividing the work force and denying working family any political power. The working class sees right through your scare tactics and we will stay organized and grow stronger thanks.

[888NOUNION]

Still Laughing!!! Spoken like a true Bolshivek!

You know what the largest union in the world was? The Soviet Union.

You know what the smallest minority is? The individual.

When you trample the rights of an individual, be it a worker or a "boss," you are a statist and a collectivist, and your aims are unjust...no better than every other peon who holds that the ends justify the means, regardless of how despotic those means are.

[1BIGr8Dane]

I do love the label "New Progressive speech police" - guess you really mean the Neo Fascist Communist inability to tell the truth thugs! If you truly understood the economy and the fact that most (former) American jobs are being done outside the USA you would realize that the EFCA will only move more of the out! What was once a strong, proud industrialized nation is now one on the verge of economic collapse - forcing people into unions makes no sense and neither do you!

[888NOUNION]

Actually, indy, though this may be hard for you to believe, the entire site took about four months to write and gather info (most of it is public information) and about a combined 150 years work of experience on both sides of the fence (so to speak).

We have been warning of EFCA for more than three years and how union bosses are spinning it.

The problem with the bill is what will happen to the jobs: Go to the site, and take a look at Stern's graph from 2005 if you think unions help jobs

[carhac66]

I agree with indyfan22k

I don't agree with the full bill, it is a reaction to the past 10 years of employer intimidation.

[888NOUNION]

Actually, that's easy. No one gave money to us to launch the website or write the video.

In fact, if you go to the site, you'll see the entire site (nearly 200 pages of information) was done without a penny of contributions. It's been all out-of-pocket.

Additionally, now that the site is launched, we are taking contributions NOW, but not from employers...only from individuals.

BTW: Indy, most of us who wrote the site are former union officials.

[sidogood]

We are the New Progressive speech police. We are privatized so we don't need a law. We use typical Alinsky tactics learned from the Democracy Alliance training sessions. Our goals: to deprive you of this vehicle as a forum for free discussion by a) defining you according to our terms, and b) preventing you from defining yourself. Now why don't you shut up?

[888NOUNION]

Clearly, you either a) have not read the hallucinogenically-named Employee Free Choice Act, b) do not understand market economics and the law of causality, or c) are too partisan in your outlook to understand the ramifications of this bill.