CNBC - Regulating Online Poker (07/22/09)

[AresHeroSC]

God these guys are idiots. Top online poker sites such as pokerstars and fulltilt are not out to scam you. The make money (millions) from the rake they collect each hand or as part of the buy-in to a tournament. Anyone who says it is a scam or rigged is just a bad player or doesn't have the facts. I know a bunch of guys who play online poker as a full time job and make over 100K a year grinding out the games. It is not luck when you turn $100 into 1 Million as many top online pros have.

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[Nonniemayrox]

lol, blaming the economy on poker. bwahahahahahaha piece of shit idiots cramming more complete bullshit down the throats of the public. asshole media jerkoffs.

[endlessmountain]

This donkey whom is against gambling is probably FOR the stock market and it is the same.

Oh wait it is not the same

Stock Market is more dangerous

Stock Market costs more money to play

Stock Market has more vig and juice

Our communism governments in North America are very corrupt and this is a small piece to why it is.

Go Freedom Go!

[IPAWNMYQUEENS]

yeah right... stock market is the real crooked market you can be a perfect trader and all of a sudden your president start doing you tricks and you loose millions all of a sudden were poker is a fair game

[endlessmountain]

Yes, they banned short sales last year and their own casino plays. If the casino had bots playing in online poker sites or professional players playing in the brick and mortar casinos it would be much worse.

This is the same here. We call these bots/pros Goldman Sachs as they use High Frequency Trading.

You see where I am going on this point that the online casinos and poker sites can allow almost any kind of player to play

When you can play 2c/4c Limit hold 'em, its for anyone

[Beskrock]

This Les jackass just said that if People lose they stop playing. So what the fuck is his problem? You can hear him stuttering cause he knows what he's about to say does'nt help his cause and he knows if he says they empty their bank accounts or mortgage their houses, he'd be lying.

Maybe sprts bettors, but not Poker players.

[IPAWNMYQUEENS]

yeah but some losing players keeps on player for life just for enterntaimnet or because they find an accuse for that... and when they rely on people playing much they wouldnt be in favor of bad players... so that they make bad players win is crap also

[Beskrock]

I have no idea what you just said.

[mazukdotcom]

Great video, thanks Poker Player's Alliance!

[Joker13574]

Online poker us just fucking fine the way it is is the goverment needs to get there dicks out of gambling and start working on fixing this shity ecconomy!

[simpsonic0421]

Obviously anyone arguing that online poker is not skill based does not understand poker at all.

As long as you have the proper bankroll to balance variance and make correct decisions depending on the opponent/situation, you will win in the long run.

[NoScope242]

I don't understand how there's even an argument that poker isn't a skill game. I know a lot of people who make a living from it and have been for years. You can't make a living off of 50/50 bets.

[IPAWNMYQUEENS]

exactlY!!

[FloptaRoyal]

artsemis is spot on correct. thank you for contributing so much sound information. we need people like you who are insightful and articulate.

[FloptaRoyal]

Anyone arguing that it's not skill based is so misguided... poker is a game of psychology and intellect; the lottery is a game of luck.

Bigger point: people who try to think for other people; people who try to "protect" other people rarely do any actual good for anyone other than themselves.

[gregpent]

Poker is a game of luck involving odds just like racing. The lottery is also a game involving odds but much higher ones.

We are talking about online poker here and don't forget that. LIVE poker gives way for psychology and intellect which can greatly improve your odds thus being a skill of being able to read tells which cannot be displayed online. I'm a poker affiliate so it would be great if it was legalised but I'm just stating the truth.

[wolfcaster]

There is no difference between live and online, the only people who says other wise are the live donks that can't understand the math well enough. Reading people is the biggest myth in poker, figuring out hands is based on betting patterns. The best online players are the best live players too. No one wants to play Patrik Antonius live nor do they want to play Tom Dwan. If online is luck, than why are the best players online players?

[gregpent]

Yes but you can understand the math to your best ability and play your game to this strategy only to have another player pull out on you because he doesn't play by the odds thus adding a majority element of luck into the game.

Its like the blackjack strategy. If someone at your table messes the strategy it lowers your odds of winning. Some casino's employ these first seat sitters to disrupt the game.

Also do online poker companies tell you of the rampant BOT's playing? NO

[FloptaRoyal]

If i'm 98% to win a hand, i accept that and bet accordingly... 2% of the time i'm still going to lose and i accept that. a player's edge is knowing the situation they're in and getting chips into the pot.

bots, by the way, are the easiest players to beat. they're not as rampant as you suggest but they do exist and when i find one i exploit it just like any sound player would do with any edge they find.

[hellasow]

wow you are really misguided....ok in blackjack if you count cards. it does not matter what the players in front of you do. they are all random cards. its only the player that believe in luck or jinxes that care about this. if a bad player does not play the math well in poker that just adds to the amount of money i am going to win in the long run. the player might get lucky in the short run but will fail in the long run.

[FloptaRoyal]

a player can definitely read online. if you can't figure a player's range and tendencies then you're not really playing the game.

poker is, in part, a game of odds. the difference between odds in a poker game and odds in a horse race is that the horse and i aren't competing against one another. i'm totally at the whim of his performance... not my own. same with the lottery. this is why barry wanted rep. frank to take table games out of the legislation. they're vastly different.

[gregpent]

there is no difference in betting against another person with odds than betting against a bookies or tote at race track. just look at betfair.

i offer you odds you accept or fold effectively.

[artsemis]

Except it's the players offering odds. When a player offers the odds, they manipulate the pot size based on hand strength and other factors. When players bet against each other, one of them is going to win... it's whoever manipulates the pot and their opponents tendencies the best that wins.

One hand may be a very large amount of luck, however a very large amount of hands is going to be a very very small amount of luck. This is why even professional players have losing days both live and online

[gregpent]

I'd have to say baldy on the left had the better points. Poker is a game of luck and also he was right that new players sign-up then realise after a while that u cant make money from the game and then quit playing.

Poker has always been marketed as a game of skill but its clearly rubbish as rarely do the top players repeat their success from once off lucky wins

[pokernash]

Poker is skill, and if you knew anything about it, you would shut your idiot mouth up. Poker is based on betting, raising, and position and other nuanes, not what cards you have. I cant stand it when idiots open their mouth on subjects they know nothng about

[gregpent]

I can't believe when people blatantly try to defend this game as being skill based on no facts. And I probably know a hell of a lot more about poker than you seeing that I have been in the online industry since the beginning and am a top earning affiliate and a player! Get your facts right

[2mokum]

@gregpent You make a lot of sense. On-line poker is phoney, manipulated crap.

Poker room operators decide who the winners will be... not the players!

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

@2mokum

That is why I have been playing Poker for 7 months now and I'm steadily profiting over $300 from grinding micro sngs, right? The reason why most players lose is because they have poor bankroll management and can't manage their downswings very well, not to mention how horribly they'll lose if they suck at poker in the first place. Poker rooms do NOT give a shit about who wins or loses. Even live in casinos, over 90% of all poker players are losing players.

[gizzaran]

You are CLEARLY misguided. You think guys who have won 5,6,...10 world series of poker bracelets are luckier than everyone else? No, there are people that win more because they are better players. Poker is a game of skill. This has been proven in at least 20 different independent studies around the world.

Unreal how ignorant people can be about this. The lottery (which is legal in almost every state) is 100% pure luck. There is no possibility for skill in that. Poker on the other hand is skill.

[gregpent]

please back up your statement with facts. Look at Phil Hellmuth, Johnny Chan, Doyle Brunson etc they play LIVE poker and they all have won early tournaments. Over 20 years playing they will win some as they play odds + they have amazing reading skills(not available online)

Please provide links to the 20 independent studies. There is no evidence of skill in online poker. Independent studies funded by poker companies so they can tap the 3billion US market!

[artsemis]

Does ultimatebet, chanpoker, and doylesroom mean anything to you? That's right, these professionals you listed all not only play online but are also partial owners of the websites. You could add countless professionals to your list... Daniel Negreanu is playing the 400-800 game on Pokerstars as I type this.

Reading is more about betting patterns than it is physical tells... even professional live players will tell you that.

[gregpent]

yes, your not listening though. These players get paid by these companies to play online. Yes, they play tight and play the odds and sometimes they win and sometimes they lose. Their effective skill online is the more you play the more you win and no one remembers when they lose as it only gets attention when they win. Clever marketing has gone into convincing us that the game is skill which it is clearly not

[artsemis]

Online game data is tracked. This made up crap about which games you remember has no merrit. I personally (and many other players) have a database full of my stats and hand histories with running totals.

Please, stop posting opinions as fact when you are clearly uneducated about the online poker world.

[gregpent]

Yes I know game data is tracked and you can view players data. The skill of these players that win is patience and the majority of them have 15-20% ratio of entering pots. So effectively they play tight, play the odds and sometimes win. Its still not a skill?

Calling people clearly uneducated is naive. Having run online poker rooms, worked with the industry leaders, monitored all data, observed top players I have a greater right than most to express my opinion.

[TheHeistProduction]

Your a moron, and the difference between live and online isnt that it takes less skill, u can play way more hands and make more per hour. Comparing poker to blackjack further proves your lack of knowlege of the game. Please play with me asap

[PSUdynasty09]

gregpent your an idiot... hu4rollz?

[artsemis]

So misguided...

Rarely top players repeat their success? I guess this is a level.

[Kroder]

Baldy is an idiot. Is the business model to make people go in debt, or to get new players when old ones get frustrated? Make up your mind pal!

"Bringing poker into the living rooms of everyone in the nation"?

No-ones forcing anyone to install any software they don't want to onto their computers. Another weak, weak argument!

[oli1233]

A refreshing glass of common sense. Thanks John.

[CAPTVWeekly]

Great job John, if only they had given more time to this important issue tough. It is good to see national coverage though. Keep up the good work!

[FloptaRoyal]

Bernal has no clue. We're a vastly responsible group and want to pay our fair share. Make it easier and tax us fairly. Bernal should sit down with Billy Baxter for a few minutes and find out exactly why this is neither predatory nor gambling.

[MikeHockisuge]

kitchen table to fiber-optic cable!