Actually the first level fighter ability you are speaking of, Tide of Iron, allows you to shift into the monsters square that was vacated. ((Not a 4.0 fan regardless))
Most of the "problems" in 4E can be fixed with some simple homebrewed rules... the police arent going to chase you down because you changed some rules to fit your playstyle. Isnt that what D&D is all about ? FUN ! People say it is "dumbed down" , well id rather play something "dumbed down" that is FUN , rather than fiddle with stupid broken powers. To me 4E doesnt make you "lazy" it makes things fun , to the point where you dont have to worry about statistics and more on RP.
@Aizuaka You hit the nail on the head. Houserules make or break any game in any edition of D&D. 4e is more about role playing and less about wading through mile long rulebooks for specific specs on isolated instances that come up in an adventure.
Any "problems" in 4e are the result of DM incompetence and a desire to play by strict rules, otherwise they are completely surmountable with a little imagination.
@EvilJaime I dont hate 4E, I made that quite clear and as to which regions its out in doesnt bother me ether, in fact I'd bet good money Australia has it.
As for wondrous items: 4th edition lays out the ground rules for combat and provides some fluff for world-building. Anything not specifically outlined is within the creative realm of the DM and the players. If you want a magical fold-out boat for your party, why does it need to be in the PHB or DMG? Just give one to your players. At the very least, all you need is a name in the item section of the player carrying it. At the most, maybe a couple extraneous rules to close potential loopholes.
this review was kind disappointing for me :( im going to be running my first game in about a weeks time with some old friends that i used to play with when we were younger. and its disappointing for me because, although im somewhat of a new DM, i still know what dming style i like to play, and its quite similiar to yours, which makes me sad because you said 4e isnt the greatest for that style :(
LOL'd at the comments here... 4e dumbs down the rules and takes away the RPG feel? LOL no, the dumb down the rules and powers choice so you can concentrate on the important things... like, roleplaying
Nice unbiased review. I'm getting down to an experiment with some new players in 3.5, they're just doing their first (epic and long) adventure. After this adventure I'm gonna introduce them to 4e (with a long adventure) and see how they like it, them being uncorrupted to reviews. We'll see what they like and what they don't like, nothing like good a ole' house rule can't fix.
And as for the minions, my group doesn't like the feeling of raw power, overcoming masses of weaklings. They like the feeling of overcoming hardships, makes them feel proud of their work. Again, nothing like a good ole house rule can't fix.
Hey just wanted to say thanks for the review you had alot of good points,
I'll be subscribing and watching more of your reviews,
a few points I'd like to add:
about minions 2 ways to imploy
1: use them like a buffer between the party and a boss, just meat
2: use a tougher boss up front and harrass the party with extra troops as they fight the boss, send them in small groups or keep them spread out with range attacks
Lol, I saw this coming. I knew someone that seems to enjoy the rp aspect of rpgs wouldn't end up enjoy 4e too much. It is a ballz system, of course.
I didn't know they took out Barbarian, that's really dumb. That's a great class. A lot different than fighter. Bards are totally different than rogues, I'd say they are closer to wizards & rangers in 3.5 than rogues.
With a decent enough GM you could make 4E work I think. For instance I'm pretty new to RPG's and when I DM'd a dungeon Crawl with a Friend. In some ways it devolved into a tabletop game but because me and him are new it was easier to understand. There were a few cinematic moments and a few moments of complete bullshit. Like the wizard only hitting once with Magic missile was bullcrap, and having to resort to his daily power to take out a basic enounter.
I've played AD&D/D&D since 1983, and I don't see what all the complaints are about. It's nice they got rid of combat that was just "hit, miss, miss, hit, hit, hit, miss, etc." Also nice that wizards aren't useless on the first level who can die from a scratch.
And if you have a good DM, you won't even notice the difference in the game.
As for his comments on minions: we're never told who a minion is.
4E Is NOT bad, and it is NOT like that shitty World of Warcraft. It's merely toned down for novice players, and the new supplements are changing that and helping out seasoned players.
I'm a novice, but started with 3.5, and that was fun, but tricky. 4E is a little more balanced, if not cartoonish.
I played 1e & 2e for years, they were great but 3.5 is the best version of those rules. It really lets you do what you want to, great crunch.
4e is terrible, it is a different game, not d&d. The system works against rp, it is made to be a p&p mmo, which is ballz. 4e may well be the death of D&D & the sales have been poor.
What are we going to do , people who dont have time to read 9000 manuals and memorize a lifetimes worth of retarded , redundant mechanics are now able to enjoy D&D! 4th edition is making our baby available to the masses! No! What will we do!
It's that same mentality that's fucking up the game industry. What's making it more noob-friendly worth if it just alienates the people who really love it? Besides, it takes a weekend at most to memorize most of the mechanics.
Yeah, capitalism definitely has a tendency to fuck everything up; everything becomes geared towards the lowest common denominator, movies, video games, music, etc.
Not really. History has proven that the most successful societies are predominantly capitalistic, but with many socialist qualities ie France, Sweden, etc. America is just over-capitalistic.
Go educate yourself, dumbass. Although I suppose you could say I fail for letting an obnoxious idiot gall me into talking about politics on a fucking D&D video, but whatever.
A "video game on paper" was always my charge against min-maxers and hacker/slasher types (with a nod to the latter, they can come in handy). My games were always character-oriented. The PCs would make characters that would by word and deed direct how the adventure went; I scripted the setting and the conflict only (and sometimes to great detail, giving them more freedom of choice). I don't know because I haven't bought and tried 4e yet but for now 3.5 for me.
Good review! I just tried out 4th edtion not to long ago and it really wasn't for me either. From character creation to combat, there wasn't much that I liked. I gave it a chance, but I think I will be sticking with 2nd edtion or maybe 3.5.
I agree. I gave 4th Edition a shot, and I didn't like it. The "healing surges" and "encounter powers" make it feel more like a video game such as Gauntlet or World of Warcraft, rather than a roleplaying game. The game just feels...artificial.
My group has picked up Pathfinder, which seems to be the next logical step in D&D's evolution, as it builds on what came before, rather than wiping the slate clean and building a tabletop WOW clone.
thank you for your review of 4e cptmachine ive been gaming for 20+ years now ive seen a few reviews on 4e now and i can honestly say its not for me i dont think wizards are being true to the forebearers of d&d 4e just come across as w o w with pen and paper the only good thing is that it might bring more gamers in but to be honest there re a lot better games out there for them to play with i think i will stick to the old 2ed rules ! cheers !
im prety sure theres tons of forums to get in contact with groups of people in your area who play personaly though i just play little games with my friends
Minions are suppose to be the critters that die when they take ANY damage. In older editions, DM's would add in lower leveled monsters for armies but the battles would take forever and it would risk the players being killed by "beestings"
Now you can decimate large armies of minions in moments. Unless the minions get buffed.
My focus will remain 3.5 with the odd 4e splattergame for 40k/battletech styled combat.
I don't own 4e, don't know if I want to try it yet or not. So I'll vote on 1 through 5 only and my vote is of course for no. 5...3.5 edition.
Whatever flaws anyone can point out I believe there are enough details surrounding it that lend toward a creative solution. I was also able to make a Greyhawk game link with certain entities from Faerun which is never boring. If I get the time and inclination, I'll check out 4e but for now, I'm a 3.5 man.
I'm kind of disappointed to hear so many bad reviews of D&D 4th Edition, because I wanted to get back into D&D. I haven't owned a book for it since AD&D. Maybe I'll wait until 5th Edition comes out...
WOW has ruined D&D and has created lazy players. Not only that but because of this massive rules change WotC felt they needed to screw with my favorite setting--Forgotten Realms. Their excuse: They needed to dumb it down to attract WoW players so they wouldn't be over whelmed coming in. Whatever.
For the sake of fairness I went out and got the book. I read it and made some characters. The problem: it was uninspirering and it did feel like video game mechanics. It looked like the designers created the game in such a fashion that no one could die (unless the DM just went the wrath of god on them) and thus upset anyone. I'm not saying there's nothing good, I just don't like the flavor.
@MrMidnightWatcher So WotC didn't start emulating WoW to attract WoW players? The habits and expectations (which is dominated by treasure seeking and mindless killing for ep) of typical WoW players are carried into the table top environment--role playing or having to actually solve problems is considered a waste of time by most of them. And the way they act if their character gets killed is pathetic. There's no real consequences in WoW so they don't expect them in a REAL rpg.
@Backfromthedeadguy I never said they didnt and anyone who doesnt see the similiarities between 4th ed. and WOW ... well they are not looking hard enough. But what i am saying is WotC just had the wrong starting formula. Blame it on timing, blame it on who they were targeting for its customer base, blame it on not fixing the leaky ship that they tried to fix before and then abandoning ship(3.5). With all that i just don't see WOW being figured into that equation other than the setup in 4th ed.
@MrMidnightWatcher There are almost no similarities between 4e and WoW. WoW = mmorpg with thousands of people in one world. D&D 4e = 4 or 5 gamers (usually) and a DM controlling the world around them. I've never sat LFG in 4e D&D, I've never seen monsters respawn, I've never talked in general chat, I've only ever done with I've always done in D&D. Sit down with friends, roll dice, drink mountain dew, and pretend to be an elf in a fantasy world.
@Droogie128 its the issue with how you progress in your abilities. not that it's played like world of warcraft, you're taking it too literally. When you progress in 4E you gain more class-abilities, it's not a matter of the simple attack action. Its like WoW in a sense that, when you gain levels, you gain new abilities or "buttons"(in wow) to cast from. Also, you are told to fill these roles in battle. Ive been in plenty of parties with crazy jack-of-all-trades type pcs, and it went very well.
@MiasmaticCatastrophe This is true in every edition, though. The only difference is, it was limited to spellcasters only before. The roles are not straightjackets, and have always existed. Now they actually define them as a balancing tool. All the roles do is give you a general idea of what the class' abilities will lean towards. Personally, I think the wealth of options given to every character every level is great. It's my favorite edition. Played them all.
@MiasmaticCatastrophe Ran out of text space. Anyway, it boils down to every class being useful at every level, with no one player completely dominating every aspect of the game. That is what spellcasters did in previous editions at high levels. If giving martial classes actual options besides "I full attack" every round = WoW, then thank god for it. However, that is not WoW, that is simply evolution of the system.
@Droogie128 respawn = area taken over by someone else since you cleared it in your last adventure, LFG = Hired an NPC for a good number of reasons. Talking in general chat = talking out of character. Sit down with friends, roll dice, drink mountain dew and pretend to be an elf in a fantasy world = sit in front of the computer, click need or greed, drink mountain dew and pretend to be a night elf or blood elf in WOW.
You bring up a good point about WoW, and it made me realize something. For all the people that complain that 4e is like a videogame, So what? If you don't like that style, you still have 3.5. Wizards doesn't need to make 4e the same game.
Thanks for those words the points your raise are good ones but they would require a greater length of review that I would care to cover to give all of those points are good going over.
You are right about people who dont like 4e shouldnt play it, its a game after all so why play it if your not having fun. However that shouldnt stop people expressing there opnion of it both postive and negative, despite this review a few of my subscribers tell me they play 4e and enjoy it, thats great!
I didn't mean it against you. I just wanted to write it down before I forgot. It's just irony, you know? If 3.5 is so much better than 4e, then why should they care? It's meant to be a criticism of haters, not just people who aren't right for it. You play 4e if you want some action, other systems if you want more realism or a different theme.
@cptmachine The problem is that 4E calls itself Dungeons and Dragons. If wasn't called D&D, nobody would have a problem with this game. It would have a small clique of fans, but nobody would ever confuse it with D&D. But this crap does call itself D&D, and that's the problem. This is a board game masquerading as D&D.
4. There aren't a lot of wondrous items because they only list ones that need rules. Things like a "Lyre of Building" can be made by the GM, since you don't need to know exactly how long it takes to build a moat or w/ever.
5.Yes, there is a lot of emphasis on combat, but that's the only thing that really needs Rules. You're supposed to do the rest of the stuff yourself. Re-skinning monsters, etc.
6. Minions are weak, unless you add a leader as well. Then they all get stronger.
1. Tide of Iron, pushback is optional. Used to push enemies into traps or away from friends.
2. 4e has less rules because it doesn't need rules for everything. 3.5 has stuff like where an arrow lands when it misses, each of the special attack actions take up half a page of rules. In 4e the actual rules for grab or bull rush are an eighth page.
3. Fort, Reflex, and Will are "Defenses" now. Saving throws are different.
I think I can agree with you. I admit that I've only run one session of it, and some of my players weren't very experienced in Table-Top Gaming, however, it really felt like there was not as much... nuance as 3.5 used, and for that, I really don't think 4.0 is my kind of game. Thanks for your viewpoint. I definitely saw where you were coming from.
dude i never critcized anything! and i never said u can use dragonbreath all the time, i told the guy that dragonborns can sue dragonbreathe. if you are gonna respond to a comment, make sure it is the right one you bloke.
Safe to say 4th Edition is the Vista of the rpg systems, 3.5 is Windows XP w/ service pack 2, AD&D is Windows 95 and Dungeons and Dragons is DOS. Now heres hoping 5th Edition is like Windows 7 where its plays like 3.5, looks like 4th Edition, and easy character creation....Oh wait that could be Pathfinder :)
I agree with combat getting stale after a few turns. My party in particular is fond of pinning the monster against a wall with the fighter and then surrounding the poor thing. You're right it does degenerate to nothing but at-wills but... how is that worse than the other editions where your fighter's options included "full attack." I think 4e lends itself a lot better to cinematic games and if that doesn't work for you that's cool, it works for me like a gem though.
I'm not talking about "slay everyone and cackle evilly" evil campaign but one where you build up power to get followers and work in the shadows trying to out smart the good guys. It gives you a whole new insight on evil as well as sharpening your brain be cause you have to perform evil without getting caught.
1. When I was at Dragon Con my friend played 4th, returned to the hotel room and said, "Wow, that's the first time I played a video game without a controller."
2. One big pain in my side about 4th is the fact you can't play evil unless the DM makes a whole slew of NPCs because the only good monster I saw in 4th Monster Manual was the Vitreous Charger and that was mainly for the paladins.
I think they oversimplified the game... It's fun, but it feals... to simple. (note, I do mean simple, not easy). I liked some of the complex rules they took out. I like the game, I just like 3.5e more
Very good review, I personally like the new edition but that is just my opinion. Although I fully agree on the magic item issue.
And don't get me wrong I also like 3.5 it had flaws just like every edition but it was decent. (Though I still love basic, Dwarfs are so awesome the are a class!)
One more note the fighter ability allows you to follow the target you push, so you can force it to move the fight to a better location. Or you can use it to push the enemy off a cliff or many other things
IMO D&D 4th ed is one of the best table top battle games out there (more detailed than Warhammer or Mordenheim for example) but if combat isnt your bag, or if combat doesnt feature much in your games then personally I think you could give it a miss. AD&D 2nd ed is perhaps my favourite incarnation with D&D 3.5 in second place. I think those earlier editions encouraged less hack n' slash and more story telling. Just my opinion.
I´ve been playing RPGs for over 18 years now, tabletop wargames for nearly 15,and I have recently started GMing a D&D 4e campaign.This MMO-like combat system works pretty well for me and my group,as long as I remember the lessons I learned from wargaming and create tacticaly challenging and interesting encounters.While I agree with most of this video,I have a different final opinion.4E provides an interesting combat system,and still allows for proper storytelling and challenging roleplaying.
You are totally correct on just about everything, I'm somewhat new to DnD, I started about two years ago with 3.5. I didn't like it, the game had nothing cool you could do except the wizard, and making decent encounters was a pain in the ass due to "CR rating"
4E rocks, it's so easy and fun to run. For example, I used to be the only DM in my group, because 3.5 requires so much time. Now every member of my group has tried it out, even my 14 year old little brother. (And he's better than me)
Nice overview, Neil. I went into that not knowing what to expect from you, but it was fair and quite detailed for 10 minutes. As I've said before, I've been playing D&D since 1978 and personally, I grew weary of the scale and complexity of 3.5 rather quickly. 4E, on the other hand, is absolutely refreshing and I adore it. That said, I thought much of The Keep On The Shadowfell was a bit dull (standard dungeon-crawl), but things have vastly improved since with our DMs original materials.
Im really to new to d&d myself, Played around 2 sessions on 4.0 and 5 sessions on 3.5, I just find 3.5 more thrilling and more exciting, But each to there own
I was wondering if your opinions have changed over the past couple of years with the updates etc. or is 4E a game that still isnt for you?
PrawnToucher 6 months ago
@PrawnToucher thats a good question, great video idea... :)
cptmachine 6 months ago
epic posters <3
Deoxysmaxim 7 months ago
yes im an Auzzie and i luv 4th ed....ps as a dg i dont try to group miniouns
Trojantnh 10 months ago
Actually the first level fighter ability you are speaking of, Tide of Iron, allows you to shift into the monsters square that was vacated. ((Not a 4.0 fan regardless))
blauu6 11 months ago
@blauu6 well said sir.
cptmachine 11 months ago
That accent! I thought i understand english, so i tried hard to listen, and now my eye twitch!
Sergey9753 1 year ago
wish i could understand what u r saying.
MisterBletch 1 year ago
Most of the "problems" in 4E can be fixed with some simple homebrewed rules... the police arent going to chase you down because you changed some rules to fit your playstyle. Isnt that what D&D is all about ? FUN ! People say it is "dumbed down" , well id rather play something "dumbed down" that is FUN , rather than fiddle with stupid broken powers. To me 4E doesnt make you "lazy" it makes things fun , to the point where you dont have to worry about statistics and more on RP.
Aizuaka 1 year ago
@Aizuaka You hit the nail on the head. Houserules make or break any game in any edition of D&D. 4e is more about role playing and less about wading through mile long rulebooks for specific specs on isolated instances that come up in an adventure.
Any "problems" in 4e are the result of DM incompetence and a desire to play by strict rules, otherwise they are completely surmountable with a little imagination.
mafelton 1 year ago
Comment removed
fudgepacksack 1 year ago
ive played 1st,2nd and 3.5 edition i havent played 4th and i dont want too its shat!
nozzer2002 1 year ago
thumbs up if you think 4E is cool and 3E and 2E and 1E and the original
EvilJaime 1 year ago
not too be rude but do you hate 4E because its not in australia thats what i heard in other vid
EvilJaime 1 year ago
@EvilJaime I dont hate 4E, I made that quite clear and as to which regions its out in doesnt bother me ether, in fact I'd bet good money Australia has it.
cptmachine 1 year ago
@EvilJaime We have 4e in Australia, what kind of shit are you talking?
MrRasnarok 1 year ago
As for wondrous items: 4th edition lays out the ground rules for combat and provides some fluff for world-building. Anything not specifically outlined is within the creative realm of the DM and the players. If you want a magical fold-out boat for your party, why does it need to be in the PHB or DMG? Just give one to your players. At the very least, all you need is a name in the item section of the player carrying it. At the most, maybe a couple extraneous rules to close potential loopholes.
nERVEcenter117 1 year ago
I'll tell you the revolutionary thing 4th edition has achieved in contrast to about EVERY other pen & paper:
Martial class: standard attack, standard attack, standard attack and so on...
Caster class: every combat round you can choose between many, many options
4th edition managed to give all classes an equal amout of different combat option via the at-will/encounter/daily powers.
THATS why 4th edition is a REVOLUTION.
blackpajamas1 1 year ago
Teehee, accent. Hot.
CaramelDancen 1 year ago
@CaramelDancen well thats a first, thanks.
cptmachine 1 year ago
@CaramelDancen well thats a first, thanks.
cptmachine 1 year ago
this review was kind disappointing for me :( im going to be running my first game in about a weeks time with some old friends that i used to play with when we were younger. and its disappointing for me because, although im somewhat of a new DM, i still know what dming style i like to play, and its quite similiar to yours, which makes me sad because you said 4e isnt the greatest for that style :(
tyleratthegates 1 year ago
@tyleratthegates this review is my opnion, dont take my word for everything, give it a go and you might enjoy it, it just didnt 'click' with me.
cptmachine 1 year ago
LOL'd at the comments here... 4e dumbs down the rules and takes away the RPG feel? LOL no, the dumb down the rules and powers choice so you can concentrate on the important things... like, roleplaying
mal3k1th 1 year ago
yea im waitin on pathfinder. i started with AD&D but 3.5 is the best system ive seen. 4E sucks.
DatNuttKaze 1 year ago
Nice unbiased review. I'm getting down to an experiment with some new players in 3.5, they're just doing their first (epic and long) adventure. After this adventure I'm gonna introduce them to 4e (with a long adventure) and see how they like it, them being uncorrupted to reviews. We'll see what they like and what they don't like, nothing like good a ole' house rule can't fix.
zomgtheone 1 year ago
And as for the minions, my group doesn't like the feeling of raw power, overcoming masses of weaklings. They like the feeling of overcoming hardships, makes them feel proud of their work. Again, nothing like a good ole house rule can't fix.
zomgtheone 1 year ago
Hey just wanted to say thanks for the review you had alot of good points,
I'll be subscribing and watching more of your reviews,
a few points I'd like to add:
about minions 2 ways to imploy
1: use them like a buffer between the party and a boss, just meat
2: use a tougher boss up front and harrass the party with extra troops as they fight the boss, send them in small groups or keep them spread out with range attacks
Ghost49X 1 year ago
Lol, I saw this coming. I knew someone that seems to enjoy the rp aspect of rpgs wouldn't end up enjoy 4e too much. It is a ballz system, of course.
I didn't know they took out Barbarian, that's really dumb. That's a great class. A lot different than fighter. Bards are totally different than rogues, I'd say they are closer to wizards & rangers in 3.5 than rogues.
woodwwad 2 years ago
@woodwwad barbarian is in the 4e PHB2, released 1 year ago.
cycophile 2 years ago
With a decent enough GM you could make 4E work I think. For instance I'm pretty new to RPG's and when I DM'd a dungeon Crawl with a Friend. In some ways it devolved into a tabletop game but because me and him are new it was easier to understand. There were a few cinematic moments and a few moments of complete bullshit. Like the wizard only hitting once with Magic missile was bullcrap, and having to resort to his daily power to take out a basic enounter.
aksquash 2 years ago
Ricky Gervais reviews D&D
Kharn526 2 years ago
I've played AD&D/D&D since 1983, and I don't see what all the complaints are about. It's nice they got rid of combat that was just "hit, miss, miss, hit, hit, hit, miss, etc." Also nice that wizards aren't useless on the first level who can die from a scratch.
And if you have a good DM, you won't even notice the difference in the game.
As for his comments on minions: we're never told who a minion is.
opteryx33 2 years ago
4E Is NOT bad, and it is NOT like that shitty World of Warcraft. It's merely toned down for novice players, and the new supplements are changing that and helping out seasoned players.
I'm a novice, but started with 3.5, and that was fun, but tricky. 4E is a little more balanced, if not cartoonish.
But I've heard 2E AD&D is the best.
PaulieRomanov 2 years ago
3.5 was the best, 4e is the ballz.
I played 1e & 2e for years, they were great but 3.5 is the best version of those rules. It really lets you do what you want to, great crunch.
4e is terrible, it is a different game, not d&d. The system works against rp, it is made to be a p&p mmo, which is ballz. 4e may well be the death of D&D & the sales have been poor.
woodwwad 2 years ago
4.0 is the ultimate in min-maxing. Really lame work from wotc. Very crappy!
kellystone84 2 years ago
@kellystone84 right on!
It is the ballz
woodwwad 2 years ago
the thing i hate the most about 4th edition is healing surges.
bronsonbaker 2 years ago
What are we going to do , people who dont have time to read 9000 manuals and memorize a lifetimes worth of retarded , redundant mechanics are now able to enjoy D&D! 4th edition is making our baby available to the masses! No! What will we do!
willynelsonius 2 years ago
Simple: We play Pathfinder instead. :)
TrianiiRanger 2 years ago 2
It's that same mentality that's fucking up the game industry. What's making it more noob-friendly worth if it just alienates the people who really love it? Besides, it takes a weekend at most to memorize most of the mechanics.
Sh0nin 2 years ago 2
No thats cool, keep it in the basement so it can die a slow death. New players = profit, welcome to capitalism. Thanks
Eymerald 2 years ago
Yeah, capitalism definitely has a tendency to fuck everything up; everything becomes geared towards the lowest common denominator, movies, video games, music, etc.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
"capitalism definitely has a tendency to fuck everything up"
Fail
Eymerald 2 years ago
Not really. History has proven that the most successful societies are predominantly capitalistic, but with many socialist qualities ie France, Sweden, etc. America is just over-capitalistic.
Go educate yourself, dumbass. Although I suppose you could say I fail for letting an obnoxious idiot gall me into talking about politics on a fucking D&D video, but whatever.
Sh0nin 2 years ago 2
@Sh0nin stay talking about rpg men because i n the subject of economic systen you know nothing. a public teacher and dm from brasil.
i know what capilism did to the rest of the world( for you of course and you know nothing about povetry and concentracion of wealth.
kaymanklynman 1 year ago
@kaymanklynman
You mean how 1% of the world has over 40% of the wealth? You see, you've made the common error of assuming that I would care if I did know.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Eymerald lol if it was socialist they would be forcing you to buy the 4th edition XD
numba1netsfan 2 years ago
A "video game on paper" was always my charge against min-maxers and hacker/slasher types (with a nod to the latter, they can come in handy). My games were always character-oriented. The PCs would make characters that would by word and deed direct how the adventure went; I scripted the setting and the conflict only (and sometimes to great detail, giving them more freedom of choice). I don't know because I haven't bought and tried 4e yet but for now 3.5 for me.
Nelapidae 2 years ago
Good review! I just tried out 4th edtion not to long ago and it really wasn't for me either. From character creation to combat, there wasn't much that I liked. I gave it a chance, but I think I will be sticking with 2nd edtion or maybe 3.5.
3ggman 2 years ago
I agree. I gave 4th Edition a shot, and I didn't like it. The "healing surges" and "encounter powers" make it feel more like a video game such as Gauntlet or World of Warcraft, rather than a roleplaying game. The game just feels...artificial.
My group has picked up Pathfinder, which seems to be the next logical step in D&D's evolution, as it builds on what came before, rather than wiping the slate clean and building a tabletop WOW clone.
TrianiiRanger 2 years ago
thank you for your review of 4e cptmachine ive been gaming for 20+ years now ive seen a few reviews on 4e now and i can honestly say its not for me i dont think wizards are being true to the forebearers of d&d 4e just come across as w o w with pen and paper the only good thing is that it might bring more gamers in but to be honest there re a lot better games out there for them to play with i think i will stick to the old 2ed rules ! cheers !
nozzer2002 2 years ago
heres the thing when 3.5 came out people said 3 was better now everyone loves 3.5, 4e comes out everyone says 3.5 is better give it time.
Guitarzan6969 2 years ago 2
I watched this video and some other dnd history vids and now I really want to try dnd. But i don't know anyone who plays. What can I do?
dylanquern 2 years ago
im prety sure theres tons of forums to get in contact with groups of people in your area who play personaly though i just play little games with my friends
xXantichristXz 2 years ago
go to your nearest comic shop or hobby shop.
bronsonbaker 2 years ago
dude, just make ur own items, monsters and stuff. with 1-3 days of thinking u can craft an excelent start for ur campaign.
rock00dom 2 years ago
You probably know the PHB2 is out now, so I'm not going to even say what's in it.
DarckTheCat 2 years ago
Minions are suppose to be the critters that die when they take ANY damage. In older editions, DM's would add in lower leveled monsters for armies but the battles would take forever and it would risk the players being killed by "beestings"
Now you can decimate large armies of minions in moments. Unless the minions get buffed.
My focus will remain 3.5 with the odd 4e splattergame for 40k/battletech styled combat.
Thanks for the vid.
Froinlaiven 2 years ago
I'm currently running a 4e campaign and here's the few things I have to say.
Minions are there to die and make heroes feel powerful.
If the book doesn't give you wondrous items, make them yourself.
Like it is always: no rpg is perfect and it will usually fall on the DM to be creative, be flexible, and make things work.
Nice reviews. As it stands, 4e has given us the best "pick up and play" rpg experience to date. Something very valuable when drafting new players.
PrimeSonicYT 2 years ago
Quick quiz.... Whats the best edition of D&D
1. Basic
2. First edition
3. Second edition
4. 3.0
5. 3.5
6. 4.0
I vote for 3.5 myself, it had flaws but generally speaking it had the best system overall
kellystone84 2 years ago
I prefer 4th. I like all editions, but I love the overall balance of 4e.
Droogie128 2 years ago
@Droogie128 3.0/3.5 i played for years, but still liked first and second.
incarnum13 2 years ago
2 months later here...
I don't own 4e, don't know if I want to try it yet or not. So I'll vote on 1 through 5 only and my vote is of course for no. 5...3.5 edition.
Whatever flaws anyone can point out I believe there are enough details surrounding it that lend toward a creative solution. I was also able to make a Greyhawk game link with certain entities from Faerun which is never boring. If I get the time and inclination, I'll check out 4e but for now, I'm a 3.5 man.
Nelapidae 2 years ago
4th edition is what made me switch to white wolf requiem.
yousini 2 years ago 2
I'm kind of disappointed to hear so many bad reviews of D&D 4th Edition, because I wanted to get back into D&D. I haven't owned a book for it since AD&D. Maybe I'll wait until 5th Edition comes out...
FullLionMoon 2 years ago
Or get pathfinder when it comes out in augest, its going to be awesome.
cptmachine 2 years ago
@cptmachine Ahahahah
"OH BOY IT WILL FIX EVERYTHING oh look fighters are still worthless and wizards still get stupid game-breaking shit in the player's guide. WELP, "
phrexus 1 year ago
@phrexus chill dude it only a game. As for fighters versus wizards, both pathfinder and D&D4 make them both as balanced as they are going to get.
But then again why should everything be balanced, each is much better at their chosen field.
cptmachine 1 year ago
If you want to read a positive review of D&D 4th edition, check out Massawyrm's review on Ain't it Cool.
I DM a 4th edition game with a group of four other guys, and we're all big fans.
iansom 2 years ago
Thank you very much. I will go check that out right now, actually. :-)
FullLionMoon 2 years ago
@FullLionMoon I suggest trying Savage Worlds. Trust me. You'll love it.
ThePenWolf 1 year ago
AD&D 2nd Ed was and still is the best
Adol666 2 years ago
WOW has ruined D&D and has created lazy players. Not only that but because of this massive rules change WotC felt they needed to screw with my favorite setting--Forgotten Realms. Their excuse: They needed to dumb it down to attract WoW players so they wouldn't be over whelmed coming in. Whatever.
Backfromthedeadguy 2 years ago 2
They "dumbed" it down so that people would put the emphasis on roleplaying again, instead of dicerolling.
ravemhoe 2 years ago
For the sake of fairness I went out and got the book. I read it and made some characters. The problem: it was uninspirering and it did feel like video game mechanics. It looked like the designers created the game in such a fashion that no one could die (unless the DM just went the wrath of god on them) and thus upset anyone. I'm not saying there's nothing good, I just don't like the flavor.
Backfromthedeadguy 2 years ago 2
@Backfromthedeadguy
Its not WOW thats ruined D&D if anything WotC ruined D&D. And lets not forget, if it wasnt for D&D WOW wouldnt exist atl.
MrMidnightWatcher 1 year ago
@MrMidnightWatcher So WotC didn't start emulating WoW to attract WoW players? The habits and expectations (which is dominated by treasure seeking and mindless killing for ep) of typical WoW players are carried into the table top environment--role playing or having to actually solve problems is considered a waste of time by most of them. And the way they act if their character gets killed is pathetic. There's no real consequences in WoW so they don't expect them in a REAL rpg.
Backfromthedeadguy 1 year ago
@Backfromthedeadguy I never said they didnt and anyone who doesnt see the similiarities between 4th ed. and WOW ... well they are not looking hard enough. But what i am saying is WotC just had the wrong starting formula. Blame it on timing, blame it on who they were targeting for its customer base, blame it on not fixing the leaky ship that they tried to fix before and then abandoning ship(3.5). With all that i just don't see WOW being figured into that equation other than the setup in 4th ed.
MrMidnightWatcher 1 year ago
@MrMidnightWatcher There are almost no similarities between 4e and WoW. WoW = mmorpg with thousands of people in one world. D&D 4e = 4 or 5 gamers (usually) and a DM controlling the world around them. I've never sat LFG in 4e D&D, I've never seen monsters respawn, I've never talked in general chat, I've only ever done with I've always done in D&D. Sit down with friends, roll dice, drink mountain dew, and pretend to be an elf in a fantasy world.
Droogie128 1 year ago
@Droogie128 its the issue with how you progress in your abilities. not that it's played like world of warcraft, you're taking it too literally. When you progress in 4E you gain more class-abilities, it's not a matter of the simple attack action. Its like WoW in a sense that, when you gain levels, you gain new abilities or "buttons"(in wow) to cast from. Also, you are told to fill these roles in battle. Ive been in plenty of parties with crazy jack-of-all-trades type pcs, and it went very well.
MiasmaticCatastrophe 1 year ago
@MiasmaticCatastrophe This is true in every edition, though. The only difference is, it was limited to spellcasters only before. The roles are not straightjackets, and have always existed. Now they actually define them as a balancing tool. All the roles do is give you a general idea of what the class' abilities will lean towards. Personally, I think the wealth of options given to every character every level is great. It's my favorite edition. Played them all.
Droogie128 1 year ago
@MiasmaticCatastrophe Ran out of text space. Anyway, it boils down to every class being useful at every level, with no one player completely dominating every aspect of the game. That is what spellcasters did in previous editions at high levels. If giving martial classes actual options besides "I full attack" every round = WoW, then thank god for it. However, that is not WoW, that is simply evolution of the system.
Droogie128 1 year ago
@Droogie128 respawn = area taken over by someone else since you cleared it in your last adventure, LFG = Hired an NPC for a good number of reasons. Talking in general chat = talking out of character. Sit down with friends, roll dice, drink mountain dew and pretend to be an elf in a fantasy world = sit in front of the computer, click need or greed, drink mountain dew and pretend to be a night elf or blood elf in WOW.
MrMidnightWatcher 7 months ago
Last thing.
You bring up a good point about WoW, and it made me realize something. For all the people that complain that 4e is like a videogame, So what? If you don't like that style, you still have 3.5. Wizards doesn't need to make 4e the same game.
Grug16 2 years ago
Thanks for those words the points your raise are good ones but they would require a greater length of review that I would care to cover to give all of those points are good going over.
You are right about people who dont like 4e shouldnt play it, its a game after all so why play it if your not having fun. However that shouldnt stop people expressing there opnion of it both postive and negative, despite this review a few of my subscribers tell me they play 4e and enjoy it, thats great!
cptmachine 2 years ago
I didn't mean it against you. I just wanted to write it down before I forgot. It's just irony, you know? If 3.5 is so much better than 4e, then why should they care? It's meant to be a criticism of haters, not just people who aren't right for it. You play 4e if you want some action, other systems if you want more realism or a different theme.
Grug16 2 years ago
Cool, no hard feelings...
cptmachine 2 years ago
@cptmachine The problem is that 4E calls itself Dungeons and Dragons. If wasn't called D&D, nobody would have a problem with this game. It would have a small clique of fans, but nobody would ever confuse it with D&D. But this crap does call itself D&D, and that's the problem. This is a board game masquerading as D&D.
ThePenWolf 1 year ago
4. There aren't a lot of wondrous items because they only list ones that need rules. Things like a "Lyre of Building" can be made by the GM, since you don't need to know exactly how long it takes to build a moat or w/ever.
5.Yes, there is a lot of emphasis on combat, but that's the only thing that really needs Rules. You're supposed to do the rest of the stuff yourself. Re-skinning monsters, etc.
6. Minions are weak, unless you add a leader as well. Then they all get stronger.
Grug16 2 years ago
Gonna write as I watch.
1. Tide of Iron, pushback is optional. Used to push enemies into traps or away from friends.
2. 4e has less rules because it doesn't need rules for everything. 3.5 has stuff like where an arrow lands when it misses, each of the special attack actions take up half a page of rules. In 4e the actual rules for grab or bull rush are an eighth page.
3. Fort, Reflex, and Will are "Defenses" now. Saving throws are different.
Grug16 2 years ago
I think I can agree with you. I admit that I've only run one session of it, and some of my players weren't very experienced in Table-Top Gaming, however, it really felt like there was not as much... nuance as 3.5 used, and for that, I really don't think 4.0 is my kind of game. Thanks for your viewpoint. I definitely saw where you were coming from.
Jace2020 3 years ago
the problem with comparing 4e to Wow is that you cant house rule away all off the problems.
ashole1976 3 years ago
also how did the dragon breathe fire every turn?
ashole1976 3 years ago
its a dragonborn, u can use a ability called dragonbreath
emo4elmo 3 years ago
In the end of the video Hes talkin about a dragon ENCOUNTER.
and I quote " ... hit,hit breathe fire, hit hit breathe fire"
and any freakin way A dragonborn cant use breath every turn as it an encounter power.
You people have a lot of critisizms towards something you dont understand
4e isnt like WOW.
WOTC didnt make WOW they made MAGIC the Gathering and D&D minis game
4e is like those more than WOW.
3.5ers are mad because they wasted what brains they had on memorizing 17 billion BS feats
ashole1976 2 years ago
dude i never critcized anything! and i never said u can use dragonbreath all the time, i told the guy that dragonborns can sue dragonbreathe. if you are gonna respond to a comment, make sure it is the right one you bloke.
emo4elmo 2 years ago
never occurred to you to give the minions a save throw vs. area affects?
ashole1976 3 years ago
Safe to say 4th Edition is the Vista of the rpg systems, 3.5 is Windows XP w/ service pack 2, AD&D is Windows 95 and Dungeons and Dragons is DOS. Now heres hoping 5th Edition is like Windows 7 where its plays like 3.5, looks like 4th Edition, and easy character creation....Oh wait that could be Pathfinder :)
Andulvar 3 years ago
well said and one hundred percent accurate. wizards 4e is... WoW in paper form.
Pathfinder feels like a true game of D&D.
Leeroy002 3 years ago
I agree with combat getting stale after a few turns. My party in particular is fond of pinning the monster against a wall with the fighter and then surrounding the poor thing. You're right it does degenerate to nothing but at-wills but... how is that worse than the other editions where your fighter's options included "full attack." I think 4e lends itself a lot better to cinematic games and if that doesn't work for you that's cool, it works for me like a gem though.
n00bdragon 3 years ago
I'm not talking about "slay everyone and cackle evilly" evil campaign but one where you build up power to get followers and work in the shadows trying to out smart the good guys. It gives you a whole new insight on evil as well as sharpening your brain be cause you have to perform evil without getting caught.
FacelessScribe 3 years ago
I think evil campaigns are over rated but you do raise a few common issues I keep hearing.
cptmachine 3 years ago
Two things,
1. When I was at Dragon Con my friend played 4th, returned to the hotel room and said, "Wow, that's the first time I played a video game without a controller."
2. One big pain in my side about 4th is the fact you can't play evil unless the DM makes a whole slew of NPCs because the only good monster I saw in 4th Monster Manual was the Vitreous Charger and that was mainly for the paladins.
FacelessScribe 3 years ago
1. Con games tend toward playing like video games because they're standardized, IMO
2. Who says evil can't fight evil? There are plenty of devils and plenty of demons; you can run a blood war campaign right off the bat.
4E also gives you a lot of tools to create your own creatures, so what's stopping you from making your own good creatures and going from there?
3.5 strongly advised against evil characters as well, but that didn't stop most people.
ZeErique 3 years ago
I think they oversimplified the game... It's fun, but it feals... to simple. (note, I do mean simple, not easy). I liked some of the complex rules they took out. I like the game, I just like 3.5e more
yuriy609 3 years ago
Very good review, I personally like the new edition but that is just my opinion. Although I fully agree on the magic item issue.
And don't get me wrong I also like 3.5 it had flaws just like every edition but it was decent. (Though I still love basic, Dwarfs are so awesome the are a class!)
One more note the fighter ability allows you to follow the target you push, so you can force it to move the fight to a better location. Or you can use it to push the enemy off a cliff or many other things
dgmid82 3 years ago
IMO D&D 4th ed is one of the best table top battle games out there (more detailed than Warhammer or Mordenheim for example) but if combat isnt your bag, or if combat doesnt feature much in your games then personally I think you could give it a miss. AD&D 2nd ed is perhaps my favourite incarnation with D&D 3.5 in second place. I think those earlier editions encouraged less hack n' slash and more story telling. Just my opinion.
Oretoasonjikure 3 years ago
I´ve been playing RPGs for over 18 years now, tabletop wargames for nearly 15,and I have recently started GMing a D&D 4e campaign.This MMO-like combat system works pretty well for me and my group,as long as I remember the lessons I learned from wargaming and create tacticaly challenging and interesting encounters.While I agree with most of this video,I have a different final opinion.4E provides an interesting combat system,and still allows for proper storytelling and challenging roleplaying.
goodbrainnicebrain 3 years ago
I totally agree with everything you said against 4e i developed my own house rule for bloodied but that's about it
personally i think 4e is fantastic if you're mentally challenged
TheLonelyNinja1985 3 years ago
Aren't minions immune to area effects?
Malsadhu 3 years ago
I dont think so... that would make half the wizard powers useless, they are immune to miss effects.
cptmachine 3 years ago
I sit corrected.
Malsadhu 3 years ago
I took one thing away from this video: 4e is WoW, and it is.
gooddragon1 3 years ago
So spiked chain fighter is out?
NeonKnight88 3 years ago
Pretty much, the things tha made the spiked chain fighter possible are out in 4th so there no as much benefit.
cptmachine 3 years ago
You are totally correct on just about everything, I'm somewhat new to DnD, I started about two years ago with 3.5. I didn't like it, the game had nothing cool you could do except the wizard, and making decent encounters was a pain in the ass due to "CR rating"
4E rocks, it's so easy and fun to run. For example, I used to be the only DM in my group, because 3.5 requires so much time. Now every member of my group has tried it out, even my 14 year old little brother. (And he's better than me)
Pakuun 3 years ago
Nice overview, Neil. I went into that not knowing what to expect from you, but it was fair and quite detailed for 10 minutes. As I've said before, I've been playing D&D since 1978 and personally, I grew weary of the scale and complexity of 3.5 rather quickly. 4E, on the other hand, is absolutely refreshing and I adore it. That said, I thought much of The Keep On The Shadowfell was a bit dull (standard dungeon-crawl), but things have vastly improved since with our DMs original materials.
Ogma01 3 years ago
3.5 is clearly the superior system. I honestly felt like i was playing a kindergarten game when i played 4.0.
kellystone84 3 years ago
Thank You!
MoltenPlastic 3 years ago
Im really to new to d&d myself, Played around 2 sessions on 4.0 and 5 sessions on 3.5, I just find 3.5 more thrilling and more exciting, But each to there own
WarWidowHammer 3 years ago
indeed and I well differing opnions.
cptmachine 3 years ago