Lesbian Pedophile (Boycott the Age of Consent!)

[ToxicOdiousOne]

We are not animals. Animals do not exist in a civilized society. We are a nation of laws and not of men.

[TheProf1988]

Yes we are animals, we are heterotrophic, multicellular opisthokonts with nervous control. We therefore are animals. You fail.

Not all humans live in civilised societies. A civilisation is defined as a perminant settlement with over 250 families. You fail.

[ToxicOdiousOne]

I knew all that shit about caring about the children was all contrived. Women always fight to be around kids and have jobs which afford them access to children. This is because little girls never become women, they are stuck in childhood, but they don't care about the age of consent for themselves searching for baby dykes.

[ToxicOdiousOne]

This is so typical no age of consent for women, but we just criminalize all of male sexuality. Sexism much? Being male is not a criminal offense. If you treat men as criminals they begin to act like criminals. Women never want responcibility. Women don't deserve any freedom then.

[ToxicOdiousOne]

All dykes are child molesters who want access to children to rape. They want to molest little girls into lesbianism. I most certainly am against such sexual anarchy. Women do not have absolute sexual freedom. Women cannot legally own child pornography either. Genitalia does not change if the law applies you son of a bitch.

[TheProf1988]

@ToxicOdiousOne

Blocked for homophobia.

[YoutubingForSuccess]

The laws full of shit

[Reproductivist]

The laws are relics from a time there was no widely used legal birth control (I guess) and the main consequences being real ones like risk of getting pregnant or infected.

With the invention of the condom, condom use should really have been added as an exclusion from age of consent laws.

And also not being a virgin anymore should automatically give you the ability to consent to sex since you know what sex is.

[flips300021]

About time someone brought this subject up. Totally agree. Fer fucks sake, you can't even smile at a kid these days. Esp' in my town...total hysteria.

Well said and hat tips Prof.

[noelplum99]

I am more than happy with a fixed, if albeit it arbitrary age of consent set at 16. The problem is the levels of hysteria and hyperbole that surround those who infring on the margins of the limit. There is clearly something qualitatively different with someone who has sex with a willing post-pubescent fifteen year old as opposed to someone grooming and molesting pre-pubescent children.

[noelplum99]

Further the law is riddled with inconsistencies:

1)I am legally entitled to have sex with a 16 year old girl (though my wife may have something to say abou tit!), even anally, but if i take any sexy pictures of her I am liable to be put on the sex offenders register.

2) The penalty for having sex with your dog is far greater than stoving its head in with a baseball bat because 'the dog cannot consent to sex' (which makes me wonder why, on the same grounds, we are allowed to breed dogs....

[noelplum99]

...as surely if dogs cannot give consent to sex they cannot give consent to sex so ALL dog copulations are rape and dog breeders are accessories to these acts?

3) The operators of these new X-ray body scanners at airports (the ones that see through your clothes) have now been instructed that if they use them to scan under 18s they make be accused of making child porn!

I think these all demonstrate how truly fucked up our thinking is - there is no sense of balance.

[TheProf1988]

To be honest I have no problem with bestiality either. PZ Myers' daughter wrote a nice essay on sexual feelings for animals. I'll try and look for it tomorrow but it's 2:00AM here at the mo and I need to go bed :P

It wouldn't surprise me if in the future, dogs had to sign consent forms to mate with other dogs!

[TheProf1988]

How is this for an incostistancy

Have you ever looked through a clothing magazine? The pictures of kids in underwear/nightwear there are legal, but if someone were to cut them out and make a collage of them or something then become illegal

This inconsistancy is very carefully calculated so that the prosecutor has a liberty to define what an ''obscene'' image is

So pedophiles have one less *safe* avenue that they can excise their feelings with and thus the level of predators may increase

[TheProf1988]

Competely agree. This kind of hysteria I classify as ''paedohysteria''.

What pisses me off is that normal male attraction to adolescent females is lumped together in the same pot as pedophilia.

These two phenomena are completely unrelated and have distinct criteria and causes.

[martynleon]

Personally I don't think there needs to be an age of consent: if someone is willing to go along with it, then it's mutual and what does age matter? If someone is unwilling to go along with it, well that's rape, regardless of age.

If it is someone's first time and they are nervous/"deemed unable to give concent", then their lover should be all the more tender and willing to stop. For me, the issue is not an age limit, but why is the sex happening at all? Have people forgotten what it is to love?

[ProfMTH]

I'm teaching criminal law this semester and recently did a lecture on statutory rape and things related to the age of consent. It prompted one of the most spirited in-class discussions this term.  Of course, age-of-consent laws wouldn't exist if people didn't find themsleves attracted to minors. So you're right to note that there's an underlying reality here and the way societies address it does seem arbitrary on many levels. That's not to say that there is a dearth of sound policy reasons...

[ProfMTH]

...for having age-of-consent laws. E.g., the personal and societal costs of teen pregnancy -- something that rarely goes well for those involved and the larger society -- can and should, it seems to me, inform the laws on this to some degree. Overall, however, I think a more targeted approach is in order rather than the very broad shot that age-of-consent laws constitute.

I would note -- and here I speak as a teacher -- that given, among other things, the significant power imbalance...

[ProfMTH]

...between teachers and students (significant when both the teacher and the students are adults, but I think far more significant when the teacher is an adult and the students are not), we probably do not want to have laws that encourage sexual relationships between teachers and students while they are in the teacher-student relationship.

BTW, we have close-age exceptions in some jurisdictions here in the U.S., too.

Sorry to go on so long.

[TheProf1988]

Good comments, very well reasoned.

It just annoys me that in Britian, young 16,17 and 18 year old men who have sexual relationships with 15 year old girlfriends have no legal discourse to defend themselves.

In the eyes of British law they are on an equal level to sex offenders like Ian Huntley and Roy Whiting.

They just aren't, it's an assinine consequence of using gambits rather than human reason to judge people in court.

[aerodynamic1]

"Of course, age-of-consent laws wouldn't exist if people didn't find themsleves attracted to minors". It's far more widespread than people think. Sit at the beach and watch much older men eyeball the bikini-clad 14 year-old. And it goes the other way more often than not too. Humans are sexual from the day they learn something feels good. Hypocrites don't admit that. It's fair to say kids dont understand the ramifications of sexual involvement though, hence the other reason for consent laws.

[aerodynamic1]

I would also add, to prove my point about children being sexual, that there's a reason kids play "doctor". I did. I'd venture to say almost all kids do. It's not evil, it's perfectly natural curiousity. So the laws governing the situation cannot truthfully say there is so sexual component to childhood when they pass relevent laws. But in my opinion, anyone that forces themselves on a child , or anyone else for that matter, should be shot. Period.

[mrtnsamson]

Well the age of consent varies here in the states(because we are terrified of sex). My state says 16 years of age(NJ)

I agree we need a specific age across the board.

[Crispy27]

You know, I think it's less of an idea that "at 15 they don't know what consent means" and more of just "You have to draw the line somewhere".

[TheProf1988]

Lines in the sand are arguments from authority. If the law cannot give me an objective argument then I will just ignore it.

I learned at a very young age that ''because I told you so'' is just an attempt at social control

[Crazyman1212]

50 months holy shit, they let a 52 year old pedophiles who rape and muder small childreen out of jail after a max of 3 months, they also protect these pedo fucks rights with fury and too there full ablity

[TheProf1988]

what are you talking about?

[FIGHTFANNERD3]

i agree on the 16 year old part

[FIGHTFANNERD3]

stupid video

[DARRBEV]

your talking about thought crime, yes a 15 old girl can be sexually attractive, it is a natural animal instinct, but we evolved to a point where we can overcome these instincts and behave in a Moral way, therefore protecting a child from predators, deviating, but very pertinant is a quote from Gervais, "How many 16 yr olds did you see on the gay rights march to lower gay consent, they were mostly 40 yr old guys in leather pants. the 16 yr olds were busy with homework thinking we're buggered."

[DARRBEV]

Britain does have a close exemption clause, but it would not count in thiss case

[TheProf1988]

No, britain does not have a close in age exemption law. That is a lie.

[jsclary]

You know... it irritates me when people and the media misuses the term "Pedophile." Pedophelia means attraction to pre-pubescent children.

At worst, what you are talking about is Ephebophilia -- but even that is only a clinical definition if it's to the exclusion of people your own age.

Teachers are a whole separate issue, too. They are in a position of power. Whether or not it is illegal, it's still highly unethical to have an affair with a student..

[saltheadd]

The problem with age of consent laws is no matter what limit is put someone will go beyond the limit if they cross the line only if its a little bit like some one going to jail because they have sex one day before its considered to be proper age for age of consent. There doesn't need to be age of consent laws. If the child happens to be raped then charge the perpetuator with rape instead.

[DARRBEV]

"there doesn't need to be age consent laws." you peadaphilic dumb fuck

[freidrickmcfred]

"There doesn't need to be age of consent laws. If the child happens to be raped then charge the perpetuator with rape instead."

The problem with this is that a child may give their consent, but not fully understand what they are getting into. The issue is unequal power. Does the child understand? Do they feel pressured into it? Do they feel as if they can say no? It is more complex than you are making it out to be.

[saltheadd]

Children can learn to make inform decisions. If a child doesn't have the capability to make an inform decision then that means someone has to make it for them. Who should make the decision whether the child can have sex or not?

[TheProf1988]

Which brings me back to my argument that the age of sexual consent should not be based simply on the amount of time someone has been alive but on a rigorously defined set of physical and mental criteria.

it doesn't matter if they are 15, or 20 to me. If they cannot pass the criteria than they can't have sex, if they do pass the criteria then they can have sex.

the point was is that simple age is a piss poor qualifier.

[saltheadd]

What should happen to those who had sex but didn't pass the criteria?

[TheProf1988]

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

Not really. Ideaaly in my version of utopia, everyone will be educated to the point where they understand the importance of the criteria and respectfully obey them.

It's a fools dream, as you might have deduced.

[squirrly001]

The "Close IN age" exemption does not apply in the instance of the teacher you speak about. It is more to do with a 3 -5 year age gap between the parties which is understandable. I don't believe you can take the issue of Breach of Trust out of the equation with a teacher and the reason it is treated with so harshly. The same as a priest or a doctor etc. It IS part of the issue because immature minds can be taken advantage of.

[TheProf1988]

Well, I think I stated in the video that I used this news article to platform an argument. I wasn't necissarily talking about this particular teacher all the way through. And I posted an annotation to make my intention clear.

I agree with you about the breach of trust issue, no doctor, teacher etc should take advantage of an underling.

I know how pressured an underling can feel in obeying a superior, believe me.

[squirrly001]

I do agree with you that the age of consent...the age of being able to drive a car...the age of being able to drink...should be standardized but thats not going to happen until and if we ever have a global government. We have to face it, there's a lot of mixed up cultures out there.

[TheProf1988]

I think countries like Britain can take a leaf out of other countries book.

In Norway and Sweden for example they have really badass driving tests. You have to wait about 4 years to get a license and prove that you can control the car in wet situations- they even learn how to powerslide on ice!

I know the reaction that this country gives to that: ''WE SHOULDNT BE TEACHING KIDS TO POWERSLIDE!!!''

Yet those countries have far batter road safety. often things can be counter-intuitive.

[squirrly001]

I feel like the premise of your video was completely from the adult's point of view. Of course you find Miley and Dakota attractive...you are an grown man who is probably sexually active. The laws are to protect the kid ( your word) who hasn't grown up enough to know that having sex can have consequences. Their minds are still processing basic education let alone the more complex issues of adult relationships.

[TheProf1988]

Actually I am not sexually active, I qualifiy under my own definition as a sexually inexperienced adult.

I feel however, that like we can learn from other countries about driving we can also learn something about sex. For example I mentioned Canadas ''Close Age Exemption'' law which I think is a much more rational approach that a solid cut off barrier.

What do you think?

[squirrly001]

Further, I don't believe you can say with any certainty that this teacher would not "fall in love" with another pupil. When you send your child to school, you are hoping they are getting an education, not finding an adult lover. As for the attractiveness of the teacher or her gender....I find that totally irrelevant.

[TheProf1988]

You are also absolutally correct about sending kids to school. You don't expact them to end up having a relationship with them. That is really the Breach fo Trust aspect that I didn't touch on in this video.

Teachers are supposed to be specially trained to abstain from fancying their puils. I know for a fact that they are warned during teacher training that a percentage of their pupils may harbour a crush on them. Hell I fancied my teachers at school, but they are supposed to be braced for it

[squirrly001]

The reason I believe we have the ages of consent is because that transition period called puberty is generally between the ages of 10 - 16. And as you went through this I presume you are aware of how mixed up you felt when hormones are raging. Therefore people in a position of trust could influence you into something that could affect your emotional growth. I am not saying it would...but it could. Its hard enough going through that period in your life with other pubescents but with an adult?

[TheProf1988]

It is a transition, but I'd say that mental sexual maturity can happen anywhere from 14 to 21.

You are absolutally correct, that is always going to be the danger. Feeling messed up about it. The youngster may feel that he/she is ready for a sexual relationship and be all coy and seductive to get it. (they do do this- its pretty easy)

But they may misjudge themselves and end up coming away with emotional guilt or something similar if they end up having sex

[saltheadd]

There shouldn't even be age of consent laws. Let the parents /guardian decide if their child can have sex or not if the child is incapable of consent.

[TheProf1988]

Thanks for the comment. I agree with you that there shouldn't be an age of consent but I don't agree that the parents should decide.

Many people have a hard enough time as it is breaking away from their parents values (like religion or homophobia).

I think that there should be a set of mental and physical characteristics that need to be used as qualifiers to judge whether someone is ready to be able to have sex or not.

[dresteban]

what a stupid idea

[TheProf1988]

Why is it a stupid idea?

Is it a stupid idea to have criteria and testing with regards to:

Driving?

Employment?

Education?

Importation?

Animal care?

Then why would you make an exception for sex?

[AncientAtheist]

"Obviously an objective morality on the age of consent".... LOL!

Yeah. That teacher is fortunate to be in the UK. Here, she would be on the sex-offender registry - for the **rest of her life""! It's insane.

What do you think about having panels that would review any case of consensual sex that is brought to the court, where they would interview the "victim" to determine if they were knowledgeable enough to give consent? If they find they were capable then there is would be no case.

[TheProf1988]

I definatly agree with you. The problem with rules is that there is always going to be exceptions. There is always going to be variables that are unaccounted for.

One of the reasons that I don't like lawyers and police is that they have to follow what is written down a piece of paper even when we know that it is wrong. It is a supreme argument from authority.

[AncientAtheist]

Yep. When I get the fortitude to talk about this appropriately and give it a good bit of time and attention, I'll be doing videos on the general subject of laws and personal freedoms, and the specific subject of sexuality.

I'm not ready to start banging my head on that wall quite yet, but I'll let you know before I post. I'd be interested in getting feedback on it from you.

[TheProf1988]

I'll be looking forward to it : )

[dresteban]

That it was consensual is utterly irrelevant.

 Teachers especially know that you don't go near the pupils regarding relationships or sex. They have this told to them repeatedly.

The system in the UK of having a fixed age of consent but generally not prosecuting kids of a similar age that have sex seems fine to me. Any are they mentally aware enough system would be too unwieldy to be practical.

[TheProf1988]

I disagree. The fact that the sex was consensual IS the point of the video. This video was not meant to address the Breach of Trust aspect but to highlight the injustice of the age of consent. This is a victimless crime.

I imagine people think that the age of consent laws protects kids against pedophiles. They are wrong- it doesn't. All it does is discriminate an aspect of human sexuality.

[dresteban]

Circumstances are everything. This is not some 6th form debate it actually happened, a teacher that was aware of the law broke it and was punished in accordingly.

That we "discriminate" against adults having sex with children is a good thing.

[TheProf1988]

The law is wrong. You are using an argument from authority. The fallacy is that you assume that said authority is exempt from closer scrutiny or falsifiability.

Again you fail to see the point of the video. This 15 year old is not a child and there are lots of countries that agree with me.

Don't phrase your next reply to make me sound like I am a pro-pedophile activist like you did here.

[TheProf1988]

The age of consent clearly does not prevent pedophilia. Pedophiles do what they want regardless of the age of consent, in this way the age of consent law is analagous to the illegality of drugs. (which, incidentally is also a dumb law).

All the age of consent does is cause hundreds of innocent 16,17 and 18 year olds who have 15 year old partners to be labelled as child molesters and have their lives destroyed by this law.

[TheProf1988]

And don't patronise me, I am not a naive and idealistic 6th former. I am a grown man who cares about social issues.

I promote a progressive political philosophy when it comes to social issues. I am even more far to the left than the liberal party so forgive me if my point of view seems outlandish.

All I am trying to do is free myself and society of social taboo. It is social taboo that is responsible for creating child abusers.

[TheProf1988]

I also disagree with you with reagrds to a system of having a test to acertain if someone is capable of having sex. You claim that it would be too unwieldy and impractical. You are wrong, we have tests and licenses for every person who wants to drive, every person who wants to teach, every person who wants to go abroard, every person who wants to keep exotic animals etc etc etc

[dresteban]

None of the tests you are talking about involve the need for such a subjective decision to be made.

[TheProf1988]

Thankyou for agreeing with me.

The current system is far too subjective. We need objective criteria laid out by ethicists, psychologists and sociologists that can accurately determine whether or not an adolescent individual is capable of having a sexual relationship without recieving psychic trauma.

Children don't become adults in one night, that is why the age of consent is flawed law.

[dresteban]

I wasn't agreeing with you. Though I suspect you know that. In an ideal world the idea of judging individuals readiness for relationships/sex is not terrible however in the far from ideal world we inhabit then an arbitrary cut off works far better.

[TheProf1988]

But it doesn't work though. If the age of consent prevents pedophilia then why do we still have pedophiles?

All the age of consent law does is make innocent adolescents go through shame and ostracisation.

It punishes young people for fancying other young people who are well within a REASONABLE age gap. It is a war upon our natural sexuality and it belongs in the same basket as homophobia.

[dresteban]

Trying to link the issue to homophobia is a reach as best and offensive at worst. Being as generally little or no action is taken legally when there is a small age gap between the parties the "war upon our natural sexuality " as you so hyperbolically put it barely seems to have reached the status of a snowball fight. The case you have highlighted had a 11 year age gap so hardly falls under "REASONABLE age gap" anyway.

[TheProf1988]

No it isn't. Look at my channel page, it say right there ''freedom of sexuality''. Oh, wait. You thought that that ONLY meant gay people? Your mistake.

Intolerance of adoclescent sexuality IS analagous to homophobia. Both are irrational aversions to a form of sexuality that the ignorant and bigoted majority have an extreme distaste for.

Watch the video again. I say ''this case allows me to platform an argument...'' I am not only talking about this case.

[TheProf1988]

Two more points:

1) You have no idea what it is like for homosexuals to face an ignorant majority and it is the same for innocent adolescents who are merely guided by their hormones. They have to face prison and the label of ''pedophile'' forever- even though it is clearly a misjudgement.

2) The age gap between my Mum and Dad is 12 years. So in your opinion they should never have had a relationship?

[dresteban]

Still not sure where the relevance of gay rights fits in here. As for adolescents having sex with others of the same age I'm not saying it has never happened but certainly in Scotland it basically never gets taken to court as is judged not to be in the public's interest so I hardly see a massive issue.

As for the age gap between your parents I assume your mother wasn't 15 when it started so I fail to see why this is relevant

[Answersinbooks]

You have a problem regarding a teacher - pupil relations even when the pupil is over the age of consent. There is the idea called 'breach of trust'. Pupils up to the age of 19 (I believe) are protected by this. This is to avoid teachers using their authority/ power to a sexual advantage.

I understand what you are saying with the concept of mental development. There is however a problem introducing a just system. I would envisage that a just system would involve a mental test to demonstrate

[TheProf1988]

Absolutally. I think actually that age is not a factor when it comes to breach of trust. doctors aren't allowed to have sex with patients, lecturers aren't allowed to have sex with research assistants etc. We even don't like teacher-teacher relationships.

You are spot on with your last point. We need a sexual capacity test to acertain whether someone can consent to have sex.

[Answersinbooks]

mental maturity. There would also have to be a physical aspect taken into account. Both of these would invite the government or their agent into the decision of who can have legal sex over a much broader group. Expanding this from say 14 to early 20s say. After all as you pointed out some people in their 20s may not be mature or confident enough for such a relationship that will not emotionally harm them.

A complex issue. No matter what your age is.