Servetus, Calvin, Socinus, and the Spread of Unitarianism

[espunde]

bolyingpuppies- It would also behoove you to cite where you are getting these quotes from, both Calvin and Servetus, even a secondary source and its bibliography.

[espunde]

@espunde bolting not bolying, anyhow

[espunde]

John 8:58; John 1:1; Colossians 1:15-17; Hebrews 1:8 - But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. - from Psalm 45:6; Mark 2:7 - Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?; Isaiah 9:6 - ...and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Amen

[MODERATECALVINISM]

Proverbs 24:14

Know also that wisdom is sweet to your soul; if you find it, there is a future hope for you, and your hope will not be cut off.

[espunde]

At least he mentions the fact that Calvin asked for decapitation and remonstrated with Servetus, usually people forget to mention that. Son of the eternal God as opposed to eternal Son of God does make all the difference, it is the line between heresy and orthodoxy.

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde From readin what Servetus wrote, it's not that he believed Jesus was not eternal, rather he believed that before Jesus was born of the virgin, he was the Word--as relayed in Johns gospel about the word being with God and God who became flesh. Here is what Servetus believed about Jesus and the trinity from his own writings:

"I shall admit these three things: first, this man is JESUS CHRIST; second, he is the Son of God; third, he is God."

[espunde]

@boltingpuppies And that is pure Arianism

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde I don't know what Arianism is but I believe what Servetus just said i*n this statement* which is:

1) Jesus is a man (meaning the human son of man through the seed of Mary).

2) Jesus is the son of God (meaning the Son of YHVH God through being begotten of God the Father).

3) Jesus is God (Jesus is YHVH God).

Jesus was fully human and fully God at the same time.

[espunde]

@boltingpuppies An Arian can agree with with most if not all of those sentiments; the problem is that an Arian, if pressed, will say that there was a time when Christ, God the Son, was unbegotten, that he began to exist and then created all (other) things. The Nicene Creed, particularly the one used by the Western Churches, is an thorough rebuttal of that ancient heresy. It is not so much a matter of what a man says, but what he leaves unsaid.

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde Ahhh. Thank you for the explanation of Arianism. I had no idea. As for Servetus, he did believe that Christ pre-existed, but he believed Christ was the "Word" when He pre-existed. I tend to agree with that per John 1 saying in the beginning was the Word (God) and the Word 'became' flesh and dwelt among us 'as' the only 'begotten Son'. I personally had always considered Jesus to be the 'eternal Son' and thought that belief that he did not always exist 'AS' the son to be heresy until>

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde cont..

until...I came across some scriptures where God says 'today you have become my Son, today I have begotten you'. The word 'today' denotes time, and the Son 'became' the son at a point called 'today'. This means there was a time when God the Word had not yet 'become' the Son. This doesn't mean He didn't exist. John 1 does say in the beginning was the Word ---the Word 'became' flesh and dwelt 'as' the only 'begotten Son'. Clearly the Word existed from the beginning and was>

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde cont.

was...also God. Since the Word is God, and God is eternal, then the one we know as Jesus (God the Son) is eternal God. Again, this was something I discovered just reading through His word (Psalm 2:7, Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5) and was surprised. Jesus is DEFINITELY the eternal God, YHVH, come in the flesh. So many people don't believe that :( I'm glad you do. Jesus bless.

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde Servetus also wrote:

"Christ being one with God the Father, equal in power, came down from heaven and assumed flesh as a man."

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde

Servetus:

"CHRIST, the Son of man, who descended from heaven, was the Word by uttering which God created the world. He became flesh as God's firstborn, and was the Son of God. He was both human and divine. God's Spirit, moving all things, operates within us as the Holy Spirit, which is a person of the Godhead. It proceeds from the Son, not as a separate being but as a ministering spirit. It is holy, one of three persons in the Godhead, and sanctifies us by dwelling within us."

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde

Servetus:

The eternally begotten Son was a spoken word by which God made himself known. The Hebrew shows that the whole nature of God abode in Christ as Elohim, man being blended with God. The Word was a disposition of God, who begot the Son, a visible being. The Holy Spirit also is a real being as Christ was. The Word was an actual being, creating all things, manifesting God in bodily form.

[espunde]

@boltingpuppies From the Definition of the Council of Chalcedon, "one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation;"

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde I agree with this particular statement you share.

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde

Servetus:

"Examination of the Old Testament usage of the words for God - Elohim and Jehovah - shows that both refer to Christ, as centre of all, and the essence of all things."

This is Servetus' belief about the trinity for which he was exterminated.

Other charges Servetus was exterminated for were:

1) Not believing in infant baptism--his unbelief was heresy

2) Defaming Calvin

Calvin:

"Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard."

[boltingpuppies]

@espunde

It's good to know who we follow and what they believe so we can become more like them.

[wordwarrior007]

@espunde eternal son of god is false. killing people for rejecting roman catholic doctrine is wrong. followers of jesus do not kill for their faith. "by their fruits u will know them."

[espunde]

@wordwarrior007 If the Trinity is Romanism than God help me; I believe very much in Reformed Catholicity, in spiritual union with fellow brothers in Christ (Lutherans et al.) both living in dead, in short as the Apostles' Creed says, I believe in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church

[skirts365]

UU harbors a seriously dangerous CULT the "mental health" (social conformity) cult. These people are all Clinically Normative, Fort Hood killer is a psychiatrist so he CANNOT have a "homicide disorder" as Degrees in Clinical Mental Health confer IMMUNITY on their possessors against all the "disorders" they invent in tandem with Big Pharma, to whom they are prostitutes. UU be honest get real & ADMIT that "mental illness" is a MYTH (women in pants, slaves wanting to escape mentally ill etc.)

[benadam74]

Long live the "Son of the Eternal God" and NOT the "Eternal Son of God"!!