I am 15 years old. I had my time of my life since 2010 .. My heart belonged to her. She was the center of my universe. I gave her everything she wanted. I spent all my time with her. She was my EVERYTHING until now... Until she bought this book............ I don't care what's in there, I don't give a damn about it
@jchtroe have you ever thought about reading it? I don't mean to be rude or anything but maybe if you read it you might gain a new perspective on her descicion, this book, and/or dating
My life itself is more important that serving God. Guess I should kiss it goodbye...
In all seriousness, though: I respect your views, and in all honesty find them interesting, and will allow you and your readers to do what they want. I will continue on my own path with the God I believe in, one who has created me to enjoy my own life rather than for His own self-interested worship.
I think this book is absolutely beautiful, and with the video added its just that much more powerful. I used this as part of my message to single Christian girls who struggle with contentment. Thanks :)
Great book, I've used it multiple times in my own life, and in counseling teens/fellow peers. a friend of mine and I had to have a sit-down and share that we spent a little too much time focusing on each other. After i read this book. That person, told me they would leave me if they stood between God and me. Now I feel the same. That little sit down has put our friendship back on track and it's more godly then ever before. thank you so much!
@aicfuel A very dubious, probably mythical figure from 2,000 years ago, loves me (in the present tense!)! And, what is even more amazing, YOU KNOW about it!
Where did you get your amazing insight?
(Don't you think it weird that the only physical body that's ever gone up to your heaven is JC? Everyone else leaves his body down here? Or have I understood it wrongly?)
Anyway, I want the love of people who are here and now. And I don't want to "pray" for it. After I die, I want nothing.
I agree 100%!!! Continue doing what god called you to do Even if people dont like it because what you are saying is the truth!!! Dating leads to lust, fornication and many more. where I fellowship at they dont play about dating. The order the house is if god said that is your wife then you begin to court. building a friendship,( no kissing, no touching and even no holding hands). untill you are married to the person. until then that is your brother and your sitter in the lord!
I agree 100%!!! Continue doing what god called you to do Even if people dont like it because what your saying is the truth!!! Dating leads to lust, fornication and many more.
After reading this book and watching sermons on "dating" it was very clear on what i had to do. long story short i had to let go of a girl who was deeply attracted too and man i am suffering from the aftermath. The suffering is REALLLLLy effecting my relationship with God and everything in general. im always "missing" her and stupid random things remind me of her
@Ryuk84 yeah your pronbly right. For some people this could of taken the opposite effect right away. But ill admit this had to be my greatest idol yet in my life. Even before i was converted i would admit that i was living and going to school for girls only that was what was driving me to live (and i wasnt even good at it lol) but thank God he freed me from being a slave to that.
@CallmeMell I think when you are young and single, that is pretty much everyone thinks about... it is natural. Once you get married or a bit older, most people end up getting their priorities straight.
@Ryuk84 to be honest i wont say its natural lol. Thats just the way were brought up at this age or generation that it seems natural but this whole "recreational dating" is like 100 sumtin years old. I personally when look back at all my Methods/approaches/thoughts/mentality/understanding of love towards the opposite sex was all from the music i listened to and the way i saw it done on TV thats why i dont think its natural to think like this nor Biblical
@CallmeMell i kno exactly wat u mean. I read this book, loved it. it was amazing, and a little scary, bcuz i did see myself in a more than a few times. and after u read it, it does start to make sense. U start to realize where u are and where u need to be. And it's really no question wat u have to do once it really sinks in. But talk about aftermath. I went through some stuff lol. it did take a some tolls on my relationships. u'd have to message me to hear that experience.
A friend of mine gave me this book. Its amazing i loved it. Him and i are attracted to each other but after we both read the book it made us both learn so much, and now were waiting until Gods approval to start a relationship with each other. this book was blessing to our lifes. I thank God for joshua's life.
I've read IKBG and I highly recommend it to anyone because it mostly points to Jesus and challenges you in your faith and how you view your singleness....keep praising God Joshua Harris! I'm going to read the next book BMG soon...
manipulate and get what they want out of a son or daughter's/ family member's relationship. Some would even attempt arranged courtships/ marriages.
Involve family as much as possible, but ultimately, any decision to be made between a courting/ married man and woman is ultimately their decision after ideally going to God first.
I have read both IKDGB and Boy Meets Girl. I picked up I Kissed Dating Goodbye because I thought it was going to be a book about being called to singlehood. Needless to say I was in for a shock.
I agree with the great bulk of what Josh Harris has to say. The only thing I take exception to is community involvement. I don't see this aspect of his book being very practical with most people. If it were implemented with most people today, people [especially parents and family] would use this to
One such article I would encourage you to read (among many, of course, but ultimately the Bible) is "Science or the Bible?" Another is "Atheism: An Irrational Worldview?" They have a web series, "Contradictions", which defends Biblical authority on common claims of contradictions. There are also feedback articles, in which the authors at Answers in Genesis respond to received emails (questions and arguments) about their articles. One can simply use the search bar to find keywords she wants.
With love and respect, since you claim to seek an understanding of my faith, why not go to the source of my faith, the Bible? Proverbs 9:10 states "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding." If there's anything I can do, it's encouraging you to at least evaluate the Bible on its own claims and merits. Many of the questions you ask, the Bible answers. AnswersinGenesis(dot)com also covers many of the issues one might have believing in it.
4.1. This would only be if faith equals truth. However, we know by logic (which you haven't accounted for the existence of, excluding the Bible) that faith doesn't make truth. A critic of air can compellingly argue that air doesn't exist. But, it's self-refuting. He must breath air to make his claims. 4.2. I think you're asking the wrong question here. You questioned one's belief (not of what they believe in). So, of course she can believe it exists, but has no logical reason to do so.
So you don't believe in absolute morality, but rather in conventional, subjective morality. (Since it's, as you said, "subject to change".) This would mean it's fine for one to do what he wants. Murder could be perfectly acceptable in Australia, thievery in Africa, and rape in Asia. The non-believer has no reason to conclude these are "wrong", even though she may. (Romans 2:15) The Bible teaches, however, that these are wrong, because they're disobedient to God (sinful).
If the rules of morality within our society had remained as rigid and "absolute" as you are advocating they should be, then the practice of stoning homosexuals to death in the streets would still be perfectly acceptable. I realize that the topic of homosexuality is a whole other can of worms entirely, and perhaps you personally feel that homosexuals are so debased and irreverent of God that they -should- be stoned to death (I am only speculating); perhaps that would not seem immoral to you.
First, you never provided a reason as to -why- stoning should be bad. You're still holding onto an arbitrary viewpoint.
Regardless, since we're all guilty, none of us have a place to do so. (John 8:1-11) We are also commanded to love. Since absolutes don't conform to society, this must be wrong? By your subjective, conventional morality, love could be bad. Hate could be good. It only depends on the individual. It's subjective, which is inconsistent, and thus illogical (because it's arbitrary).
In the situation (hypothetical, that is) you claim this is a contradiction, I am directing you to the AiG article "Contradictions: Against the Law". It discusses this specific "contradiction" in more detail than I can write in this small text box. That said, it accurately represents my position and would-be argument, if I personally had the time. I expect you to respect it as much as you would any of mine, as I can't always be available to assist your questions.
Or what about the sin of adultery? Is it your opinion that any man who lies with another man's wife should be stoned to death as well? What about men of other religions? Is it your express duty under the word of God to purge the world of Wiccans and all other nonbelievers? If anything, absolute morality weakens human relationships; in a universe fashioned and maintained by God's Providence, wherein every calamity inflicted upon man serves to either test or punish him, what good is empathy?
2. ~6000 years. ~4004 by genealogy from Adam to Jesus, and ~2000 since then. (The Bible does not say the age of the earth directly, or else it'd be wrong after a year passed.)
3.1. First, God, who inspired it (2 Timothy 3:16). Supposedly, the first written book was Job by Moses. 3.2. Because God willed it. 3.3. Because God (who witnessed all of, and committed many of, the events) inspired the writing, the knowledge was provided.
I maintain that our conversation has remained congenial, at least from my end. (It's purely subjective, however.) Though, why do you try to be moral? It's a Biblical concept. Evolution has no basis for it. (One cannot accept only part of the Bible, else he is illogical. By the law of non-contradiction, the Bible can't be true and not-true at the same time. Further, he's inconsistent.)
I believe God is as He describes Himself in the Bible. I believe in the Bible's truth, which includes miracles.
Perhaps I did not phrase my questions in such a way as to elicit the types of responses I am looking for; I'll try to be more specific. Please try to answer them as directly, unambiguously and descriptively as you can, if you are willing.
(1) Do you believe that Adam and Eve were real, living human beings who once walked the earth and did the things they are purported to have done as described in the bible?
(2) Approximately how many years ago did God create the earth?
I do not believe that morality needs to be a biblical concept. A pragmatic understanding and application of morality is just as effective, if not more so, than a biblical concept of morality; while the former concept is adaptable to social changes within society, the latter concept is, by nature, intolerant of change.
(3) Who was the human who started writing the bible, and why did he/she do it? How did he/she acquire knowledge of the events which are described in detail within the bible?
(4) If one's subjective faith in God's existence is the final determining factor in one's measurement of the accuracy of the bible's content, then when and how does one decide to make a clear distinction between truth and fiction? If one has enough faith in the existence of the tooth fairy, how is his or her belief in that entity any less legitimate than a Christian's belief in the existence and actions of the Christian God?
However, in the evolutionary worldview, the mind and sensory organs are the product of chemical accidents that just happened convey survival value. Thus, there's no logical reason to think they (our senses and mind) should be reliable.
Evolution (meaning molecules-to-man, not natural selection) is supposed to be without deliberate plan and essentially is non-predictable, which makes it, by definition, an accident.
Without any logical reason to believe in these things (including logic and the reliability of our own senses), one must unwittingly (or perhaps she acknowledges that she does) borrow from the Bible, which teaches that God created man's mind and senses (and the rest of him), so we'd expect it to be able to function properly. Therefore, in the Christian worldview, it'd make sense that our senses can reliably perceive and that our minds can be rational.
Of course one can "think scientifically [sic]" and believe transcendent laws exist, but aside from the Bible, one has no -reason- to believe they exist. She must take it for granted that they do. This is arbitrary, one type of fallacious reasoning. (Simply put, "Just because.") I said that an atheist has no basis for these things to point out that they're arbitrarily presupposing all these things exist in order to reason, just as the Christian presupposes the Bible's truth.
"Unlike Christianity, it is not unequivocal" Indeed, since the Bible is infallible and consistent (Hebrews 6:17-18, Psalm 18:30, John 1:1) it is unequivocal. In calling Christianity, a faith based on the belief in God and the Bible, unequivocal, you're admitting (whether you knew it or not) it's perfectly consistent (or else it'd leave doubt- John 15:22). This is untrue of molecules-to-man evolution, which keeps being changed and added to to explain away the problems within itself.
"Christianity [sic] ... disregards the importance of human observation [and] claims to understand the origin of human existence." Let's take this in two parts. The first part is false, as the Bible does not ever say "Ignore science." (Or anything similar.) On the contrary, it is written in 1 Thessalonians 5:21, "Test everything." That, therefore, was fallacious. The second part, however, is the faith component of Christianity, and the same is true of the religion of molecules-to-man evolution.
"You're basically asking..." That, right there, was a straw man- a logical fallacy, putting up in my place an argument I never made. If you look closer, you'll see I never asked you anything, thus there's no question available to simplify ("basically asking"). Past that was rhetoric (meaning "empty words") that went off of me asking a question that was never asked. For the record, that's twice now. I don't think you're understanding me. I encourage you to try answersingenesis(dot)com for this.
No, not all science is operational (observational) science, since not all "science" uses the scientific method. This is the distinction between operation (observable and testable, such as natural selection) and origin (historical) (unobservable and untestable, such as particles-to-people evolution) science.
You are committing the logical fallacy of equivocation (known as the "switch-and-bait" fallacy) by changing meanings. Evolution in the sense of change (natural selection) is a fact. Evolution in the sense of unobserved, repeated positive mutations over long periods of time, however, is not.
I want you to define what -you- mean by "science". (Also, I'm no less pretentious than an evolutionist, who from the start also makes assumptions to do his origins science, as I do in mine.)
I'd like to re-emphasize now my sincere wish that our conversation remain congenial.
I think our opinions, at this point, are becoming somewhat convoluted, due to the fact that we are arguing
without any goal of conciliation in sight. My intent was never to deconstruct
your belief system; initially, I was only trying to understand it. But now I feel as though I'm moving further away from understanding and closer toward stultification.
An atheist/agnostic worldview has no reason to believe such things as laws of logic or natural law exist. Certainly, one can say they exist and use them (like laws of mathematics and physics, natural law), but is irrationally unable to account for -why- they exist. However, such laws make sense in a Biblical worldview, being God's nature.
One common response to this is "They're human invention." Then, did the universe operate differently before we discovered the laws of physics or a formula?
You're basically asking me whether or not a falling tree makes a sound if there is no one around to hear it. If we were to use this as our analogy, we can equate the phenomena of sound to a scientifically proven law. Whether or not sound exists without a human ear to observe it is irrelevant, much in the same way that it is irrelevant to debate whether or not a scientific law holds true when a human consciousness is not present to describe it. Do you understand?
Science cannot EXPLAIN sound. Science can only describe sound in terms of human experience and understanding. Thus, our own humanity limits our understanding of the universe "as it really is." Christianity, however, disregards the importance of human observation at the same time that it claims to understand the origin of human existence. Pretentious, much?
I don't deny -science- at all. It's how we observe the world around us. Your claim that I compare "science to religion" (when I, in fact, mentioned evolution, not operational science, to be false), which is not the true argument, as evolution, by definition, isn't scientific, because it can't principally be observed/tested in the present, i.e. scientific method, is a straw man. However, I deny the belief in molecules-to-man evolution, because I believe in God, rather than ol' Charles.
Molecules-to-man evolution is not operational science, since there is no human that's lived for millions and millions of years to observe it. That leaves that it must be the other type of science- origins science, which is massively influenced by one's presuppositions.
Consider a man that claims he is dead. A doctor asks him if dead men bleed, and he says "no." The doctor pricks him, and he bleeds. The man then says "I guess I was wrong! . . Dead men -can- bleed!" He made the wrong conclusion.
Your understanding of the scientific method is still riddled with misconceptions. Firstly, there are no "types" of science in the same sense that there are varying denominations within Christianity. By continually failing to make that distinction, your entire argument mirrors a toddler's struggle to shove a square peg through a round hole. Secondly, theories must change and even expire in order to accommodate the latest scientific findings. A static theory is called a dogma (like Christianity).
Science is always operational on some level. You're confounding your own argument by basing it on faulty semantics. Evolution is widely accepted today as the most plausible description of how organisms adapt to their environment and differentiate into species. There is nothing explicitly stated or tacitly implied in the theory of evolution which explains how or where life first originated.
Evolution does not need to take "millions and millions of years" to happen; there are innumerable examples of small-scale evolution taking place around us all the time. Because we can see evolution happening in real-time on some level, and because we can apply the principles of this observed process to describe similarities between living species and the fossilized remains of species that died off long ago, it is a reasonable theory. And unlike Christianity, it is not unequivocal.
FINALLY!!!!!!! someone who thinks the way I do!! I've decided not to date until I am ready to get married! I dont see the point in giving my heart away to different people that I wont spend the rest of my life with. It's so encouraging!! I am going to read that book for sure!
i'm just in love with this book, i'm from brazil and i started reading now...and i just agree with every thing that Josh says! every christian boy should read it and we girls should read it too! i'm learning alot with it! God bless you Joshua!
I freaking love " i kissed dating goodbye"!!!!! its an awesome Christ centered book that helps us remove idols that keep us from making God the prize!
really whatever is written in this book is hard to follow, with all the temptations around us, from family, to friends, to public, to televisions and radios. i guess it really takes great faith and self control LOL, hard work and perseverance.
I'd like to pose two questions to anyone who here who considers him or her self to be a religious person: why do you believe in God? if you don't, don't bother replying to me. But if you do believe in God, what kind of God do you believe in? As in, do you believe in God in terms of some some unknown, shapeless, undefinable force that governs the universe? Or do you believe in God as he is strictly defined in the bible? I don't want to start any kind of contentious debate about religion...
I've just never felt any sort of inclination to believe in God and I've never understood why other people do. I'm not setting a trap here, nor am I trying to be condescending. I've just never honestly asked a devoutly religious person why he or she believes in God, so I thought I finally would.
believing something you don't see, it's called faith. anyway, as for myself. i was born in a christian family, but as a human, i also had my ups and downs, made me turn my back on Him, cursing him (this is worser than to be an unbeliever), but then, what really brought me back into His arms is that I've felt Him, His presence so many times. In other words, aside from having faith, we Christians feel our God in many, many ways.
So you believe in the God that is specifically written about in the bible, then? Have you never questioned the fact that humans wrote the bible, and therefore a Christian God is probably no more real than any other work of fiction man has created? I guess what I'm asking is, why believe in a CHRISTIAN God, and not simply a divine force that has no affiliation to human institutions? You said that you were raised into a Christian family, but why haven't you ever questioned your family's faith?
Because everything in the Bible has proven itself to be right. That's one reason there's prophecy. If it was only a human deception, it wouldn't be flawless.
Please name one thing that the bible says which has "proven itself to be right"-- one thing that science has not proven to an equal or more elaborate degree.
I don't exactly know what you mean by "I've felt Him, His presence so many times," but haven't you considered that whatever you felt might be totally isolated within you? Just for the sake of argument, if maybe you did experience some kind of spiritual or supernatural intervention in your life, what leads you to believe that it was the Christian God whose presence you felt? Why not Mohammed, or Satan, or some other divine entity? What other experience do you have to compare it to?
hahaha, for those who believe, no explanation is needed, but for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible. if you want to know the truth yourself, why don't you try reading the bible? and put your human logic into test ^^. i can never answer those questions because an unbeliever will always find a question to ask to satisfy his logic and reasoning. nobody can ever explain you what is what, and you can never get the answers by questioning others.
But that's partially what lead me to ask this question. I have read much of the bible, and I have most certainly used my "human logic" in analyzing its content. I understand the many ways in which its text can be interpreted, how it can be uplifting and insightful, but again I find myself always returning to the simple fact that it was MAN who wrote the bible, not GOD. I can pick up any one of countless other inspirational fiction books and experience the same emotions I did while reading...
sigh, the existence of God is simply too complicated for the shallow mind of the human race. the more you question His existence, the more you get lost and confused, and this is just one of the major reasons why people turn their back on Him and choose not to believe Him because they just couldn't get Him, and because they couldn't understand Him, they would not believe it. As i've said, it is all about faith. when you believe in God, you never question Him, you just believe.
Perhaps I am a God fearing man, and God is using me as a conduit to write His word to you at this very moment. Would you believe that? What makes my claim any less legitimate than the claims of the people who purported to have heard the voice of God when they wrote the bible?
A God fearing man would have faith. Knowledge alone is not enough to God. He wants belief. Proverbs 1:7 says, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline."
Before I'd believe that, I'd pray and read His word He's already given me, the Bible.
However, the Bible already says everything necessary. How can I say that? I have faith that He provides for my needs, and as always, we desperately need Him, and His word.
You don't know anything about me, other than what I've chosen to type to you on this website. How, then, can you be so sure that I'm faithless? I have ultimate control over the information that you receive from me, which means that it is fully within my power to lie outright; how would you possibly be able to discern the facts from the lies? You can't. So what makes you so sure that the men who wrote the bible (not to mention the countless generations of men who REVISED and RE-REVISED the bible
after it was written) weren't telling lies? You have never, nor will ever, meet them. Their words have no more intrinsic merit than mine. "Fools despise wisdom"? Nothing you've said sounds wise to me, nor does any of it do a half-decent job of answering my simple questions. Why is it so difficult for you to accept the power of your own beautiful mind and still love God? Nothing can disprove God's existence, and I'm not trying to imply that anything can. But the BIBLE is a work of MAN.
have you ever opened the bible ??? have you ever came across some true wisdom-words in it ? do you get that the bible is a manual to live according to ? and do you get the last thing which is: if we christians denyied the Bible, we would denyed our faith. - we believe that they were not telling lies ( see a bunch of the "fuck" comment above ) - The Bible is a book of such an importance that we guess, and BELIEVE that it can be trusted.
I have a secret. Last night, God came to me in a dream and commanded me to change my ways. He told me that I should no longer mercilessly ridicule any of the following kinds of people when they say irredeemably stupid things: the mentally inept, people who can't spell, people who can't defend themselves in a debate and who resort to saying "FUCK FUCK FUCK DERRR!" because of it...
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
...and people who are too dumb to recognize that the bible is a book written by men who knew that there would always be people dumb enough to believe every word of it without ever questioning its authenticity. Seeing as how you fall perfectly into each of these categories, I'll refrain from pointing out how grossly ignorant and childish your comments were in the context of an otherwise adult conversation that you ("DERR FUCK DERR!") chose to ram your moronic opinions into. Think b4 you speak plz
I am questioning its authenticity. look, im sure that those men were aware of the burden of the responsibility. The bible is the basic of our religion. and the were believers.
the reason for my childich ( derr fuck derr ) was that i ve heart comments like your thousand times, so do not think you ve made out something special. And anyway, i dont know whats your goal. yeah, i do not need the bible to believe in God. but its fine to read about God.
How comes it that you are disregarding that an infallible God inspired them (2 Peter 1:20-21)? Could He not have overcome their fallibility in speaking through them? Some would say (such as you might), "God didn't tell you the Bible is infallible, the men who wrote it did." Since God inspired it, then He -did- write it.
Why can't you make that easy distinction between the two? Why are you compelled to relinquish your God-given intelligence to the printed words of some book that has been altered so many times over the course of history that it barely resembles the original text anymore? God is not embodied in words. God is far too great and profound for science to explain or deny, so what makes you think that a book written by who knows who, who knows when, can provide you with a fair and honest explanation?
because we BELIEVE that those people BELIEVED that WHAT they were writing ABOUT was FUCKING IMPORTANT, and we believe that they were fucking aware that if they had changed the only fucking word, God would have been really angry and pissed of, do you fucking get it ???? DO YOU GET IT ??
arguments like : "you dont know who wrote it, where and when, and anyway, people wrote it."
we believe that its God´s word, we BELIEVE you asshole
Also, why is it wrong to approach questions like these with logic and reasoning? You can't just choose to selectively employ logic whenever it suits you, and then disregard obvious, scientifically deduced facts when discussing religion. I'm not saying that there isn't some kind of all-pervading, divine, unobservable force in the universe LIKE God, but simple common sense derived from logic says that a Christian God, as he is described in the bible, is nothing more than a fairy tale.
AND, i didn't believe in God the way i do ryt now just because i grew up in a christian family or i have read the bible. I have felt Him, you will never understand this lest you feel Him too. you say God is merely a fairy tale? what is true and what is not in this world? we base all things according to what we perceive through our senses, don't you think it's too idiotic? because we act as if we know everything yet we know nothing at all.
I mean, when you say something like "no explanation is needed," why not? You only know about the Christian God because other, older people in your life exposed you to the human concept of a Christian God when you were young. If someone told you to jump off a bridge, would you go ahead and say, "OK, no explanation is needed"? Wouldn't you instead use logic to determine that if you jumped, you would plummet to your death according to the laws of gravity? Wouldn't you then refuse to jump?
I believe in God because I could feel His very existence everyday and a nonbeliever can never understand this because he always rely on his own logic and reasoning. "No explanation is needed", I've already told you. NOBODY can ever show you His existence but only HIM. AND however a believer explain what you need to know, a nonbeliever will never believe unless you FEEL HIM YOURSELF. Not even a strong christian can explain God's existence because His existence is just beyond our understanding.
and to make it clear to you, christianity is never an institution nor a religion, it is living through christ. anyone can call themselves a christian if he believes in christ, but of course, easier said than done. i suggest you read the bible before asking too many questions because nobody can ever give you the answer but only HIM.
...the bible. If the bible told you that Jesus was born with tentacles instead of arms, would you believe it? Even though it is biologically impossible, I think that if you grew up reading that Jesus had tentacles and seeing figurines of a little tentacle-armed man crucified on a cross, you would believe it today. You asked me if I've ever read the bible, so I would like to ask you: have you ever seriously studied biology, or chemistry, or physics?
and please, don't ask me if i've studied biology, chemistry or physics because im a nursing graduate and about to claim my license as a registered nurse. Science and religion contradict each other, everybody knows that. science is created to explain things around us, but God is beyond science, everybody knows that as well. why do you think millions of people cling into Christ, do you consider them all as fools to believe such fairy tale? how bout u? have u assessed your belief?
Yeah I've assessed my beliefs. My belief is that the universe and whatever else lies beyond our perception of the known universe is too complex for us to understand. That's where I get my sense of wonder from: there is so much that the human race thinks it knows, but in reality all that we know is confined to a tiny bubble called earth. We know what we can perceive and observe and label through science, but none of that comes close to understanding why and how the universe came to be....
So I'm guessing that's where faith comes in: you accept everything that science and technology have already accomplished, but anything that is yet unobserved or fully understood must be the work of God. I don't think science is totally incompatible with religion. However, I do know that science isn't compatible at ALL with Christianity. There's a clear difference in my mind between believing in something like God and believing in a Christian God. Believing in something like God is ...
Do not get confused with God the Father and Jesus Christ His son. Before when Jesus was still not present in the world, God only favors the race of Jews as His Children, but through Christ, God considered that whoever believes in His son, shall be saved. As Christ had said, He is the only way through His Father in heaven. I think you should attend church and consult a pastor. that would be a great help.
But you're not answering any of the hypothetical questions I'm asking you. If a pastor is just going to skirt around my questions like this too then there's no need for me to consult one. I'm not saying that I believe in God the Father, because God the Father seems to me like a creation of man. How can you be so sure that Christ even existed or that he performed all the extraordinary feats he's reported to have? You only know about Jesus because people wrote about him....
okay let's use our human reasoning this time. let's say jesus isn't really true, but as a reader of the bible which we're not sure if it's written by man or not, the question is, are the teachings written in the bible morally correct or not? about people's sins, lust, murders, stealing, evil desires. how about the tend commandments. is something wrong with them? the statements are simple, do not kill, do not covet, honor your parents... if i would be an unbeliever and would be reading the bible,
You seem to realize that both secular humanism ("there is no god") and Christianity are religions. It comes down to which you'll trust: Fallible humans (The evolution belief has been rewritten and rewritten and rewritten and rewritten and...) or the infallible God (The Holy Bible says "It is written", Matthew 4:4).
How do you know they didn't lie about or exaggerate Jesus' accomplishments? It still doesn't add up. At this point I guess it's just never going to make sense to me. What do you think happens to nonbelievers when they die? Do you think Christ is going to return someday? Do you believe in evolution? I'm glad I'm asking these questions to someone who has a thorough education in science, because I want to know how you can reconcile the scientific method with pure faith.
i would probably think of the bible as a book about how to live righteously than a religious book about God, and i wouldn't think it's that bad to follow its principles. but the problem is, as a human being, we hate what the bible teaches us about morality because for us, what we feel good is good, and is alright. but it doesn't work that way. for people, sex is good so it's alright to do it with anyone, anytime and anywhere. how about the respect for our bodies, for ourselves and for others?
You're right; it is endless. I feel like we're running around in circles now, at least regarding the whole business of faith. You mentioned homosexuality, which brings up another question in my mind. There are of course huge protests against legalizing gay marriage and abortion, and clearly you don't seem like the kind of person who would condone either of these things. Why do Christians feel compelled to impress their beliefs on non-Christians, homosexuals, and women seeking abortions?...
now about those impressing our beliefs, it's not forcing you people to believe what we believe in, it's because WE CARE. even though we're different in terms of beliefs and principles, WE CARE, this is just one of the things that God wants us to be, to love and care people and treat them as our brothers and sisters. People get annoyed with christians telling them these and that because they didn't want to be interrupted with what they want to do, which according to them is alright bec...
Suppose that there's a race of intelligent aliens on some distant planet in a galaxy millions of light years away from our own. Did God create them? How would they know about Christ? And what about all the other religions practiced on this planet by people who don't believe in God the Father or Christ His son? Most of their faiths are much older than Christianity; are they all wrong? Since you've learned about the nervous system and the functions of neurons in the brain...
how about gay marriage? for others it's alright because they feel good about it and that's what they want. but in human nature, and PHYSICALLY, men are for women, and women are for me. and as a short, final answer to all of your current and upcoming questions, CHRISTIANS LIVE BY FAITH ALONE. how could u understand something which you don't even believe exists? no matter how many answers i give you, you will never accept them and wil never understand, and u will always find questions to ask.
I mean, if sinners are all going to end up in hell anyway, why not let homosexuals pursue homosexual affairs, and why not let pregnant women undergo abortions if they feel they will be unable to care for their unborn child? Isn't it enough that you live your life righteously?
"how could u understand something which you don't even believe exists?" - I'm trying to believe it, but in order to believe it I need to at least begin to understand how it is real...
you know, however a christian explains you how he/she can prove that God exists, you will never accept their explanations and you will never understand because the only way for you to recognize God's existence is through EXPERIENCING GOD. i believe God not because someone told me so, or because i grew up being taught about God. I believe Him, because I have experienced His mercy and grace a countless times.
it feels good to them. Just think, since when will abortion be right? It's murder, killing a baby, an innocent. You say, let them have abortions because they cannot take care of the child, then why make the child? that's the main point here. our very own mistakes affect the innocents. If they are not ready to be a parent, then wait to have sex till you're married. that's very simple. however, as i have said. people are very impulsive. doing anything that feels good, but not always right.
...where do you think consciousness comes from? Is our perception of the world and our sense of self our soul? I mean, isn't it possible, even probable that every sensation we experience, everything we see and hear, every memory we have and every judgment we make arises from electrochemical interactions occurring in the brain? How can you make assumptions about the creator of the universe if you're not even fully aware of all the internal processes that lead your brain to make that assumption?
it's endless. i've been there in your position, i was once an unbeliever and confused, but God proved me Himself His existence without using any other person, but Him alone. about other religion, some were formed due to different interpretations of the bible, and about others such as muslim, don't know what they believe in. For me, there is only one God, and Him alone. let's make this easier. if you don't believe in God, then perhaps you don't believe in devils as well.
...and not a product of some other person's imagination. The thing that really strikes me is that, like you said, I don't think there is anything I or anyone else could say to convince you that Christ isn't the son of God, or that there isn't even a God as described in the bible. That's scary to me because basically what you're saying is that it doesn't matter to Christians whether or not God really exists. For the sake of argument, let's say there is no God.
of course it matters that God exists, and we know He does. i just wanted to level with your thinking, that is using the human logic. i cannot continue talking with you about religion since you don't have belief. just as thomas aquinas did so atheists could understand how God exists. If anything starts with something, then there should be something that has no beginning and no end to start everything, etc... even aquinas who was once an atheist ended up believing in God.
But I still don't think you understand the distinction I'm trying to make between God the Father as described in the bible, and some force in the universe like God. I believe in something like God, but I don't believe in the Christian God because the Christian God is the product of an institutionalized religion and is wrapped up in fictitious biblical stories written by men. You say you know that God exists because you've experienced him and not because you've grown up in a culture...
...that nurtured a belief in God the Father and Christ His son. But what if you grew up alone in the wilderness without any kind of religious influences? You might come to believe in some divine force that created life, but the name of Jesus Christ would mean absolutely nothing to you. Are you saying that, even under those circumstances, you would still have faith that God the Father and His son truly exist? Every single belief that anybody has is shaped by his or her cultural upbringing.
And the whole debate over abortion seems to me like an issue of Christian morals. Some people, you included, say that abortion is equivalent to murder, while others, like myself, would argue that abortion can't be argued for or against using religious reasoning because not everyone who seeks an abortion believes in God or Christ. I know you care about other people and you want to help them by denouncing their choice to seek an abortion, but isn't that a little presumptuous of you? ...
Because in the end, you have no legitimate proof that God exists, and atheists have no completely unassailable arguments to conclude that God does not exist. Since believers and nonbelievers are at a standstill in the abortion debate, what gives believers the right to harass nonbelievers who choose to have an abortion? It would be like atheists trying to outlaw baptisms because they forcibly induct infants into a religion that might not suit them as they get older.
Truth is not only know by natural reasoning, which you and other unbelievers are using, as Jesus had said, man cannot live by bread alone. There is also what we call supernatural reasoning which is a byproduct of faith. You keep on talking about CHRISTIAN GOD but there is only one God in this world, and it is Him the force in the universe you are pertaining to. The problem is, you believe there is a higher power, but you won't even acknowledge that higher power. However you call Him...
I agree! One makes presuppositions for every line of thought. They determine how you interpret things. Molecules-to-man evolution, which has never been observed, depends on its presupposition that God does not exist. However, my view has answers to all things, which an evolutionary worldview cannot support [such as morals, truth and logic].
On the topic of abortion, I would tell any pro-choice advocate to walk up to a person with cerebral palsy and tell them that they should have been aborted.
"On the topic of abortion, I would tell any pro-choice advocate to walk up to a person with cerebral palsy and tell them that they should have been aborted."
I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on stem cell collection and research.
Now you're simply jumping to the conclusion that because I don't believe in the bible's oversimplified, cartoonish interpretation of God, I must not believe in anything like God. You've also made the mistake of suggesting that the theory of evolution is somehow incompatible with the belief that supernatural forces (i.e., forces that science cannot explain) are also at work throughout the universe. My point is not that God does not exist; it's that God cannot be explained by the bible or science.
The hypothesis of evolution was created on the presupposition of materialism- that only energy and mass exist, which contradicts the existence of anything not either, such as God- and natural laws, interestingly enough. (The laws of logic we know to be true, but they can't be explained by evolutionary views. Or the law of biogenesis, which states that life always comes from life. Evolution, at least once, violates this.)
The error in your line of reasoning stems from an inadequate understanding of what a "theory" actually is, let alone the theory of evolution. You're still trying to compare Christianity to the idea of science as a religion; in other words, you're attempting to
argue against the scientific method as if it were a self-enclosed, self-validating belief system (i.e., a religion) like Christianity.
Evolution is not a theory of existence; its purpose is not to EXPLAIN the SOURCE of human experience like Christianity pretends to do. Evolution is a theory which attempts to DESCRIBE a particular facet of existence IN TERMS of human experience. The scientific method does not haughtily say, "Given the right amount of time and resources, I can EXPLAIN every nuance of existence so thoroughly that the human mind will be able to one day...
perhaps if i would be born without the knowledge about christ, i would still sure be experiencing the power of the almighty above and would believe there is indeed God, and that would lead me to search for Him, and that would lead me to knowing Christ as well. And about abortion, the point here is WE VALUE LIFE, we can their pain, their suffering, we have compassion, we feel for others. What would you think if your mother tried to abort you? or where would you be now if you've been aborted?
Ok I have to get into this. I had two abortions when I was a teen in the 80's And honestly...I wish someone would have told me the truths about this horrible procedure.
OK, well, your personal anecdote doesn't really contribute at all to the discussion rahneejoyce and I were having. Could you elaborate a little more? Are you religious, or simply a believer in some kind of God? Define "truths" for me. Where do you stand in the debate on legalizing abortion?
that is how a christian is made dear, traveling in the desert till you find an oasis. you suffer, you thirst, you hunger, and it is that HIgher Power above who will feed you and quench your thirst, and that's how you experience His mercy and grace. That's when you start to believe and strengthen your faith. And that is why Jesus was sent by God, to spread His word. as said in the bible, he was a jew, to get the jews, as an unlawful, to get the unlawful, as a man, to get men.
...(for the sake of argument, let's say there is no God). Clearly, there is no way I can convince you that he doesn't exist using any sort of logical reasoning. So would you still believe in God as faithfully as you do now, even if he wasn't real?
Father, Allah, Yahweh, etc etc... there is and will be only ONE GOD. There is only one creator, and it is up to an individual how he/she will seek God and experience His power. He who created all things is our God, and nobody else. indeed we all have out own choices and free will, but we cannot deny the fact that not everything is in our control, and that's when the works of God enter. that's how you witness His power. and nothing's coincidence in this world my dear.
a personal journey, a questioning of one's self and one's purpose in the universe, as well as questioning the universe itself scientifically. When I have exhausted every bit of faith and every bit of common sense in trying to understand how I am here and how I got here, the only explanation I have left is that there is something like God. But as far as Christ is concerned? No, it isn't plausible at all. I can consider a Christian God and quickly come to a conclusion about its authenticity...
In the old testament, God used so many people and even showed so many miracles yet the world still filled with unbelievers. God used Mary to give birth to Christ, His son, in the form of human flesh, to pay for our sins. Can you imagine a Father giving up His son for people who don't even love Him and believe in Him? God said that whoever believes in His son Jesus Christ believes in Him, just as when you accept a messenger, you accept the person who have sent him.
...without exhausting my intellectual resources. Christ is a symbol created by MAN. Christ's actions were accounted by MAN. Christ's name is carried on and praised through the centuries by MAN. Christ WAS A MAN. I believe in something like God because it would be completely without human cares. It would not have a human likeness or any communication with humans because it is not intelligible. It is a force propelling life forward, not some man strung up on a cross saving us from our sins.
ah, i now get what you mean and what you are confused about. you're confused about God and Christ, am i getting it right? So you believe in God the Father who created all things but you cannot understand who just Christ is? Have you read the whole new testament? because it'll answer all of your questions. God, as you have said and as i did too, is too complicated for us to understand. That way God speaks our language in a very simple manner for us to understand Him.
I know I've already written a lot, but I just want to restate that I'm not trying to insult your faith in any way by asking you these sorts of questions. I'm just so curious because I've never asked them before.
R u for Real, Is that a sincere question? Im sure it isn't ,but i'll answer anywayz like it is
1 Thesselonians 4:3(KJV) For this is the will of God, even your sanctification that ye abstain from fornication
1Corinthians 6:9(KJV) .Know ye not, that the unrighteous can not inherit he Kingdom of God? Be not deceived, neither fornicators,nor idolaters nor adulterers,nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with man kind.
The list goes on and on and on , a concordance will give u more passages
I read the book out of curiosity and I was surprised that it made so much sense. He is not telling people not to date he is saying that before you consider dating a person really get to know them, until you are ready to really pursue a serious relationship don't try to. What is the hurry, have fun, be single, enjoy, travel do whatever but enjoy your single years before you decide to get married and settle down. Honor God in your single years.
I am actually commenting on the boy meets girl video. (why did you disable the comments for it!?!?!?!?!) anyway, BMG is a GREAT book and I HIGHLY recommend it for anyone dissatisfied with the all too selfish dating scene.
I think u must never preclude physical intimacy of a non sexual nature from a non-married couple.
In Philippians it states Christians should be tenderly affectionate one towards another. This must include physical expressions too, for love is expressed at a physical as well as mental and emotional level.
To use general verses like ''abstain from all appearance of evil'' is nonsense.
Far to general.
God has given us desire to the opposite sex, and he expects us to use them.
INFINTESKY69- You have used a lot of scripture to back up ur questionable points. A certain individual that was cast out of heaven did the same thing too.
Defending recreational dating (with physical intimacy privileges). But really, When someone dates & gets in involved in kissing petting etc. How long do you think i will be before they land in bed ? Or do u think pre marital sex is ok too? Because if so a least i know where you stand.
There isn't just ''one'' person out there for you. God has stated in his word we can marry anyone as long as they are in the body of Christ.
Therefore, in most cases, one should practice your intergender social skills through more frivolous romantic relationships, in preparation for more serious one, and, eventually, marriage.
At the most fundamental level, a single christian glorifies God when they display interest in the opposite gender at any age, and in perhaps, multiple ppl over time
Don't want to get into a debate about this but i do want to ask a few questions.
1)Do you believe all these things u are saying, do u really believe a Christians we should date ,kissing & caress each one until we are ready to get married.
if do How would we be any diff from characters in day time soap.
If someonee starts dating @ 16 and changes realtionship an average of every two years,by the time the get married at 26 How many fellow church members would they have done this with?
what is the message of this book? should i stay single forever? should i stay away from my girlfriend?
Moronics916 1 month ago
Hello,
I am 15 years old. I had my time of my life since 2010 .. My heart belonged to her. She was the center of my universe. I gave her everything she wanted. I spent all my time with her. She was my EVERYTHING until now... Until she bought this book............ I don't care what's in there, I don't give a damn about it
but.. well... FANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR NOTHING
jchtroe 3 months ago
@jchtroe have you ever thought about reading it? I don't mean to be rude or anything but maybe if you read it you might gain a new perspective on her descicion, this book, and/or dating
bookworm6795 3 months ago
@bookworm6795 you're right. I'm currently reading this and now enjoying God's gift of singleness :))
abiifly21 3 months ago
Very interesting videos and books, all your material teaches us self disciplines and control in life, to pursue the truth which is God...
God bless you...
shdurani 4 months ago
Another life wasted in the pursuite to please somebody who,
if "he" exsists,
works on such an enormous scale that "he" most likely wouldn't care
or even know about us as individuals.
The arrogance of man ... :)
Xigano1 4 months ago
Love that book!
katerina8787 6 months ago
Reading your book now and LOVE it!!! God Bless...
watchfuleye2008 6 months ago
Haters gonna hate.
SuperHeatherAwesome 8 months ago
My life itself is more important that serving God. Guess I should kiss it goodbye...
In all seriousness, though: I respect your views, and in all honesty find them interesting, and will allow you and your readers to do what they want. I will continue on my own path with the God I believe in, one who has created me to enjoy my own life rather than for His own self-interested worship.
maximalyst0292 8 months ago
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I think this book is absolutely beautiful, and with the video added its just that much more powerful. I used this as part of my message to single Christian girls who struggle with contentment. Thanks :)
divinedatingforgirls.blogspot.com
dreamincreamin 9 months ago
Great book, I've used it multiple times in my own life, and in counseling teens/fellow peers. a friend of mine and I had to have a sit-down and share that we spent a little too much time focusing on each other. After i read this book. That person, told me they would leave me if they stood between God and me. Now I feel the same. That little sit down has put our friendship back on track and it's more godly then ever before. thank you so much!
byhishand93 9 months ago
when I meant leave me. I meant back away from our friendship. they did not want to be in the way of me serving god.
byhishand93 9 months ago
This man talks about "god" as if there could really be such an entity! There isn't.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Jesus loves you
aicfuel 10 months ago 3
@aicfuel A very dubious, probably mythical figure from 2,000 years ago, loves me (in the present tense!)! And, what is even more amazing, YOU KNOW about it!
Where did you get your amazing insight?
(Don't you think it weird that the only physical body that's ever gone up to your heaven is JC? Everyone else leaves his body down here? Or have I understood it wrongly?)
Anyway, I want the love of people who are here and now. And I don't want to "pray" for it. After I die, I want nothing.
Peace.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
I agree 100%!!! Continue doing what god called you to do Even if people dont like it because what you are saying is the truth!!! Dating leads to lust, fornication and many more. where I fellowship at they dont play about dating. The order the house is if god said that is your wife then you begin to court. building a friendship,( no kissing, no touching and even no holding hands). untill you are married to the person. until then that is your brother and your sitter in the lord!
Faboulas5 11 months ago
I agree 100%!!! Continue doing what god called you to do Even if people dont like it because what your saying is the truth!!! Dating leads to lust, fornication and many more.
Faboulas5 11 months ago
After reading this book and watching sermons on "dating" it was very clear on what i had to do. long story short i had to let go of a girl who was deeply attracted too and man i am suffering from the aftermath. The suffering is REALLLLLy effecting my relationship with God and everything in general. im always "missing" her and stupid random things remind me of her
CallmeMell 1 year ago
@CallmeMell That is soo backwards dude.
Ryuk84 1 year ago
@Ryuk84 yeah your pronbly right. For some people this could of taken the opposite effect right away. But ill admit this had to be my greatest idol yet in my life. Even before i was converted i would admit that i was living and going to school for girls only that was what was driving me to live (and i wasnt even good at it lol) but thank God he freed me from being a slave to that.
CallmeMell 1 year ago
@CallmeMell I think when you are young and single, that is pretty much everyone thinks about... it is natural. Once you get married or a bit older, most people end up getting their priorities straight.
Everything in moderation my friend.
Ryuk84 1 year ago
@Ryuk84 to be honest i wont say its natural lol. Thats just the way were brought up at this age or generation that it seems natural but this whole "recreational dating" is like 100 sumtin years old. I personally when look back at all my Methods/approaches/thoughts/mentality/understanding of love towards the opposite sex was all from the music i listened to and the way i saw it done on TV thats why i dont think its natural to think like this nor Biblical
CallmeMell 1 year ago
@CallmeMell i kno exactly wat u mean. I read this book, loved it. it was amazing, and a little scary, bcuz i did see myself in a more than a few times. and after u read it, it does start to make sense. U start to realize where u are and where u need to be. And it's really no question wat u have to do once it really sinks in. But talk about aftermath. I went through some stuff lol. it did take a some tolls on my relationships. u'd have to message me to hear that experience.
Lildarkskin 1 year ago
Comment removed
CallmeMell 1 year ago
I really thank God for this book...
manna16rose 1 year ago 28
A friend of mine gave me this book. Its amazing i loved it. Him and i are attracted to each other but after we both read the book it made us both learn so much, and now were waiting until Gods approval to start a relationship with each other. this book was blessing to our lifes. I thank God for joshua's life.
MsLoV3M3 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
wow. what a pussy.
brettawesome 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
wow. what a pussy.
brettawesome 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
wow what a pussy
brettawesome 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
wow. what a pussy.
brettawesome 1 year ago
I read this book a few years ago on the recommendation of a friend....
I haven't read anything she'd recommended to me since...
celinelowe 1 year ago
I love your book, Josh. :) It's been really helpful for me in my walk with God.
frodobaggins115 1 year ago 12
does anyone know what the song is in the background, it would honestly make my day if anyone knowss what it's called.
: (!!!!!
xjetaimejuicy 1 year ago
im on my way to read this book
wow
so amazing...it remaind me the aim of my life is Jesus Christ
God Bless you Joshua:)
11dya22love 1 year ago
i wanna read this book... i think its a great one.
tumabikajan 1 year ago
I've read IKBG and I highly recommend it to anyone because it mostly points to Jesus and challenges you in your faith and how you view your singleness....keep praising God Joshua Harris! I'm going to read the next book BMG soon...
PrayerWarrior4 2 years ago
manipulate and get what they want out of a son or daughter's/ family member's relationship. Some would even attempt arranged courtships/ marriages.
Involve family as much as possible, but ultimately, any decision to be made between a courting/ married man and woman is ultimately their decision after ideally going to God first.
adambomb312 2 years ago
I have read both IKDGB and Boy Meets Girl. I picked up I Kissed Dating Goodbye because I thought it was going to be a book about being called to singlehood. Needless to say I was in for a shock.
I agree with the great bulk of what Josh Harris has to say. The only thing I take exception to is community involvement. I don't see this aspect of his book being very practical with most people. If it were implemented with most people today, people [especially parents and family] would use this to
adambomb312 2 years ago
One such article I would encourage you to read (among many, of course, but ultimately the Bible) is "Science or the Bible?" Another is "Atheism: An Irrational Worldview?" They have a web series, "Contradictions", which defends Biblical authority on common claims of contradictions. There are also feedback articles, in which the authors at Answers in Genesis respond to received emails (questions and arguments) about their articles. One can simply use the search bar to find keywords she wants.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
With love and respect, since you claim to seek an understanding of my faith, why not go to the source of my faith, the Bible? Proverbs 9:10 states "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding." If there's anything I can do, it's encouraging you to at least evaluate the Bible on its own claims and merits. Many of the questions you ask, the Bible answers. AnswersinGenesis(dot)com also covers many of the issues one might have believing in it.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
4.1. This would only be if faith equals truth. However, we know by logic (which you haven't accounted for the existence of, excluding the Bible) that faith doesn't make truth. A critic of air can compellingly argue that air doesn't exist. But, it's self-refuting. He must breath air to make his claims. 4.2. I think you're asking the wrong question here. You questioned one's belief (not of what they believe in). So, of course she can believe it exists, but has no logical reason to do so.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
So you don't believe in absolute morality, but rather in conventional, subjective morality. (Since it's, as you said, "subject to change".) This would mean it's fine for one to do what he wants. Murder could be perfectly acceptable in Australia, thievery in Africa, and rape in Asia. The non-believer has no reason to conclude these are "wrong", even though she may. (Romans 2:15) The Bible teaches, however, that these are wrong, because they're disobedient to God (sinful).
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
If the rules of morality within our society had remained as rigid and "absolute" as you are advocating they should be, then the practice of stoning homosexuals to death in the streets would still be perfectly acceptable. I realize that the topic of homosexuality is a whole other can of worms entirely, and perhaps you personally feel that homosexuals are so debased and irreverent of God that they -should- be stoned to death (I am only speculating); perhaps that would not seem immoral to you.
slugdeez 2 years ago
First, you never provided a reason as to -why- stoning should be bad. You're still holding onto an arbitrary viewpoint.
Regardless, since we're all guilty, none of us have a place to do so. (John 8:1-11) We are also commanded to love. Since absolutes don't conform to society, this must be wrong? By your subjective, conventional morality, love could be bad. Hate could be good. It only depends on the individual. It's subjective, which is inconsistent, and thus illogical (because it's arbitrary).
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
In the situation (hypothetical, that is) you claim this is a contradiction, I am directing you to the AiG article "Contradictions: Against the Law". It discusses this specific "contradiction" in more detail than I can write in this small text box. That said, it accurately represents my position and would-be argument, if I personally had the time. I expect you to respect it as much as you would any of mine, as I can't always be available to assist your questions.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
Or what about the sin of adultery? Is it your opinion that any man who lies with another man's wife should be stoned to death as well? What about men of other religions? Is it your express duty under the word of God to purge the world of Wiccans and all other nonbelievers? If anything, absolute morality weakens human relationships; in a universe fashioned and maintained by God's Providence, wherein every calamity inflicted upon man serves to either test or punish him, what good is empathy?
slugdeez 2 years ago
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slugdeez 2 years ago
I am willing. (1 Peter 3:15)
1. Yes.
2. ~6000 years. ~4004 by genealogy from Adam to Jesus, and ~2000 since then. (The Bible does not say the age of the earth directly, or else it'd be wrong after a year passed.)
3.1. First, God, who inspired it (2 Timothy 3:16). Supposedly, the first written book was Job by Moses. 3.2. Because God willed it. 3.3. Because God (who witnessed all of, and committed many of, the events) inspired the writing, the knowledge was provided.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
I maintain that our conversation has remained congenial, at least from my end. (It's purely subjective, however.) Though, why do you try to be moral? It's a Biblical concept. Evolution has no basis for it. (One cannot accept only part of the Bible, else he is illogical. By the law of non-contradiction, the Bible can't be true and not-true at the same time. Further, he's inconsistent.)
I believe God is as He describes Himself in the Bible. I believe in the Bible's truth, which includes miracles.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
Perhaps I did not phrase my questions in such a way as to elicit the types of responses I am looking for; I'll try to be more specific. Please try to answer them as directly, unambiguously and descriptively as you can, if you are willing.
(1) Do you believe that Adam and Eve were real, living human beings who once walked the earth and did the things they are purported to have done as described in the bible?
(2) Approximately how many years ago did God create the earth?
slugdeez 2 years ago
I do not believe that morality needs to be a biblical concept. A pragmatic understanding and application of morality is just as effective, if not more so, than a biblical concept of morality; while the former concept is adaptable to social changes within society, the latter concept is, by nature, intolerant of change.
(3) Who was the human who started writing the bible, and why did he/she do it? How did he/she acquire knowledge of the events which are described in detail within the bible?
slugdeez 2 years ago
(4) If one's subjective faith in God's existence is the final determining factor in one's measurement of the accuracy of the bible's content, then when and how does one decide to make a clear distinction between truth and fiction? If one has enough faith in the existence of the tooth fairy, how is his or her belief in that entity any less legitimate than a Christian's belief in the existence and actions of the Christian God?
slugdeez 2 years ago
However, in the evolutionary worldview, the mind and sensory organs are the product of chemical accidents that just happened convey survival value. Thus, there's no logical reason to think they (our senses and mind) should be reliable.
Evolution (meaning molecules-to-man, not natural selection) is supposed to be without deliberate plan and essentially is non-predictable, which makes it, by definition, an accident.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
Without any logical reason to believe in these things (including logic and the reliability of our own senses), one must unwittingly (or perhaps she acknowledges that she does) borrow from the Bible, which teaches that God created man's mind and senses (and the rest of him), so we'd expect it to be able to function properly. Therefore, in the Christian worldview, it'd make sense that our senses can reliably perceive and that our minds can be rational.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
Of course one can "think scientifically [sic]" and believe transcendent laws exist, but aside from the Bible, one has no -reason- to believe they exist. She must take it for granted that they do. This is arbitrary, one type of fallacious reasoning. (Simply put, "Just because.") I said that an atheist has no basis for these things to point out that they're arbitrarily presupposing all these things exist in order to reason, just as the Christian presupposes the Bible's truth.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
"Unlike Christianity, it is not unequivocal" Indeed, since the Bible is infallible and consistent (Hebrews 6:17-18, Psalm 18:30, John 1:1) it is unequivocal. In calling Christianity, a faith based on the belief in God and the Bible, unequivocal, you're admitting (whether you knew it or not) it's perfectly consistent (or else it'd leave doubt- John 15:22). This is untrue of molecules-to-man evolution, which keeps being changed and added to to explain away the problems within itself.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
"Christianity [sic] ... disregards the importance of human observation [and] claims to understand the origin of human existence." Let's take this in two parts. The first part is false, as the Bible does not ever say "Ignore science." (Or anything similar.) On the contrary, it is written in 1 Thessalonians 5:21, "Test everything." That, therefore, was fallacious. The second part, however, is the faith component of Christianity, and the same is true of the religion of molecules-to-man evolution.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
"You're basically asking..." That, right there, was a straw man- a logical fallacy, putting up in my place an argument I never made. If you look closer, you'll see I never asked you anything, thus there's no question available to simplify ("basically asking"). Past that was rhetoric (meaning "empty words") that went off of me asking a question that was never asked. For the record, that's twice now. I don't think you're understanding me. I encourage you to try answersingenesis(dot)com for this.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
No, not all science is operational (observational) science, since not all "science" uses the scientific method. This is the distinction between operation (observable and testable, such as natural selection) and origin (historical) (unobservable and untestable, such as particles-to-people evolution) science.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
You are committing the logical fallacy of equivocation (known as the "switch-and-bait" fallacy) by changing meanings. Evolution in the sense of change (natural selection) is a fact. Evolution in the sense of unobserved, repeated positive mutations over long periods of time, however, is not.
I want you to define what -you- mean by "science". (Also, I'm no less pretentious than an evolutionist, who from the start also makes assumptions to do his origins science, as I do in mine.)
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
I'd like to re-emphasize now my sincere wish that our conversation remain congenial.
I think our opinions, at this point, are becoming somewhat convoluted, due to the fact that we are arguing
without any goal of conciliation in sight. My intent was never to deconstruct
your belief system; initially, I was only trying to understand it. But now I feel as though I'm moving further away from understanding and closer toward stultification.
slugdeez 2 years ago
According to my own interpretation, the word "science"
refers exclusively to any item of human knowledge that has been arrived at through utilization of the scientific method.
To my knowledge, no scientific theory which adheres to this interpretation has seriously proposed, nor even
suggested, an explanation as to the origin and/or purpose of existence.
slugdeez 2 years ago
Since I have answered your question,
I would like to ask you these: who or what is God in your mind? Do you believe biblical stories in which God intervenes directly
and explicitly in human affairs to be true, or do you think that these accounts are simply allegorical in nature (Adam and Eve, for instance)?
slugdeez 2 years ago
An atheist/agnostic worldview has no reason to believe such things as laws of logic or natural law exist. Certainly, one can say they exist and use them (like laws of mathematics and physics, natural law), but is irrationally unable to account for -why- they exist. However, such laws make sense in a Biblical worldview, being God's nature.
One common response to this is "They're human invention." Then, did the universe operate differently before we discovered the laws of physics or a formula?
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
You're basically asking me whether or not a falling tree makes a sound if there is no one around to hear it. If we were to use this as our analogy, we can equate the phenomena of sound to a scientifically proven law. Whether or not sound exists without a human ear to observe it is irrelevant, much in the same way that it is irrelevant to debate whether or not a scientific law holds true when a human consciousness is not present to describe it. Do you understand?
slugdeez 2 years ago
Science cannot EXPLAIN sound. Science can only describe sound in terms of human experience and understanding. Thus, our own humanity limits our understanding of the universe "as it really is." Christianity, however, disregards the importance of human observation at the same time that it claims to understand the origin of human existence. Pretentious, much?
slugdeez 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I don't deny -science- at all. It's how we observe the world around us. Your claim that I compare "science to religion" (when I, in fact, mentioned evolution, not operational science, to be false), which is not the true argument, as evolution, by definition, isn't scientific, because it can't principally be observed/tested in the present, i.e. scientific method, is a straw man. However, I deny the belief in molecules-to-man evolution, because I believe in God, rather than ol' Charles.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
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WhiteBomber 2 years ago
Molecules-to-man evolution is not operational science, since there is no human that's lived for millions and millions of years to observe it. That leaves that it must be the other type of science- origins science, which is massively influenced by one's presuppositions.
Consider a man that claims he is dead. A doctor asks him if dead men bleed, and he says "no." The doctor pricks him, and he bleeds. The man then says "I guess I was wrong! . . Dead men -can- bleed!" He made the wrong conclusion.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
Your understanding of the scientific method is still riddled with misconceptions. Firstly, there are no "types" of science in the same sense that there are varying denominations within Christianity. By continually failing to make that distinction, your entire argument mirrors a toddler's struggle to shove a square peg through a round hole. Secondly, theories must change and even expire in order to accommodate the latest scientific findings. A static theory is called a dogma (like Christianity).
slugdeez 2 years ago
Science is always operational on some level. You're confounding your own argument by basing it on faulty semantics. Evolution is widely accepted today as the most plausible description of how organisms adapt to their environment and differentiate into species. There is nothing explicitly stated or tacitly implied in the theory of evolution which explains how or where life first originated.
slugdeez 2 years ago
Evolution does not need to take "millions and millions of years" to happen; there are innumerable examples of small-scale evolution taking place around us all the time. Because we can see evolution happening in real-time on some level, and because we can apply the principles of this observed process to describe similarities between living species and the fossilized remains of species that died off long ago, it is a reasonable theory. And unlike Christianity, it is not unequivocal.
slugdeez 2 years ago
FINALLY!!!!!!! someone who thinks the way I do!! I've decided not to date until I am ready to get married! I dont see the point in giving my heart away to different people that I wont spend the rest of my life with. It's so encouraging!! I am going to read that book for sure!
MichaelaLeach 2 years ago
sounds like an interesting book...i wud like to read it...got to check my bookstore :D
12sionara 2 years ago
wow thank for this book...simply amaaazing and what ineeded...
nereyes3 2 years ago
i'm just in love with this book, i'm from brazil and i started reading now...and i just agree with every thing that Josh says! every christian boy should read it and we girls should read it too! i'm learning alot with it! God bless you Joshua!
aisek2007 2 years ago
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BryanThomas1984 2 years ago
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BryanThomas1984 2 years ago
josh God bless u
allstarboyscout 2 years ago
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ProphetRay 2 years ago
I freaking love " i kissed dating goodbye"!!!!! its an awesome Christ centered book that helps us remove idols that keep us from making God the prize!
engravedinthewake 2 years ago
I LOVE Josh's books! :D
marklowryfan 2 years ago
really whatever is written in this book is hard to follow, with all the temptations around us, from family, to friends, to public, to televisions and radios. i guess it really takes great faith and self control LOL, hard work and perseverance.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
i'm having my 13yo read this book; i think it will be invaluable to his spiritual walk . thank u for your obedience and courage in writing this book
shaunehw 2 years ago
I'd like to pose two questions to anyone who here who considers him or her self to be a religious person: why do you believe in God? if you don't, don't bother replying to me. But if you do believe in God, what kind of God do you believe in? As in, do you believe in God in terms of some some unknown, shapeless, undefinable force that governs the universe? Or do you believe in God as he is strictly defined in the bible? I don't want to start any kind of contentious debate about religion...
slugdeez 2 years ago
I've just never felt any sort of inclination to believe in God and I've never understood why other people do. I'm not setting a trap here, nor am I trying to be condescending. I've just never honestly asked a devoutly religious person why he or she believes in God, so I thought I finally would.
slugdeez 2 years ago
believing something you don't see, it's called faith. anyway, as for myself. i was born in a christian family, but as a human, i also had my ups and downs, made me turn my back on Him, cursing him (this is worser than to be an unbeliever), but then, what really brought me back into His arms is that I've felt Him, His presence so many times. In other words, aside from having faith, we Christians feel our God in many, many ways.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
So you believe in the God that is specifically written about in the bible, then? Have you never questioned the fact that humans wrote the bible, and therefore a Christian God is probably no more real than any other work of fiction man has created? I guess what I'm asking is, why believe in a CHRISTIAN God, and not simply a divine force that has no affiliation to human institutions? You said that you were raised into a Christian family, but why haven't you ever questioned your family's faith?
slugdeez 2 years ago
Because everything in the Bible has proven itself to be right. That's one reason there's prophecy. If it was only a human deception, it wouldn't be flawless.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
Please name one thing that the bible says which has "proven itself to be right"-- one thing that science has not proven to an equal or more elaborate degree.
slugdeez 2 years ago
I don't exactly know what you mean by "I've felt Him, His presence so many times," but haven't you considered that whatever you felt might be totally isolated within you? Just for the sake of argument, if maybe you did experience some kind of spiritual or supernatural intervention in your life, what leads you to believe that it was the Christian God whose presence you felt? Why not Mohammed, or Satan, or some other divine entity? What other experience do you have to compare it to?
slugdeez 2 years ago
hahaha, for those who believe, no explanation is needed, but for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible. if you want to know the truth yourself, why don't you try reading the bible? and put your human logic into test ^^. i can never answer those questions because an unbeliever will always find a question to ask to satisfy his logic and reasoning. nobody can ever explain you what is what, and you can never get the answers by questioning others.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
But that's partially what lead me to ask this question. I have read much of the bible, and I have most certainly used my "human logic" in analyzing its content. I understand the many ways in which its text can be interpreted, how it can be uplifting and insightful, but again I find myself always returning to the simple fact that it was MAN who wrote the bible, not GOD. I can pick up any one of countless other inspirational fiction books and experience the same emotions I did while reading...
slugdeez 2 years ago
sigh, the existence of God is simply too complicated for the shallow mind of the human race. the more you question His existence, the more you get lost and confused, and this is just one of the major reasons why people turn their back on Him and choose not to believe Him because they just couldn't get Him, and because they couldn't understand Him, they would not believe it. As i've said, it is all about faith. when you believe in God, you never question Him, you just believe.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
God used God fearing men to write His word.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
Perhaps I am a God fearing man, and God is using me as a conduit to write His word to you at this very moment. Would you believe that? What makes my claim any less legitimate than the claims of the people who purported to have heard the voice of God when they wrote the bible?
slugdeez 2 years ago
A God fearing man would have faith. Knowledge alone is not enough to God. He wants belief. Proverbs 1:7 says, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline."
Before I'd believe that, I'd pray and read His word He's already given me, the Bible.
However, the Bible already says everything necessary. How can I say that? I have faith that He provides for my needs, and as always, we desperately need Him, and His word.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
You don't know anything about me, other than what I've chosen to type to you on this website. How, then, can you be so sure that I'm faithless? I have ultimate control over the information that you receive from me, which means that it is fully within my power to lie outright; how would you possibly be able to discern the facts from the lies? You can't. So what makes you so sure that the men who wrote the bible (not to mention the countless generations of men who REVISED and RE-REVISED the bible
slugdeez 2 years ago
after it was written) weren't telling lies? You have never, nor will ever, meet them. Their words have no more intrinsic merit than mine. "Fools despise wisdom"? Nothing you've said sounds wise to me, nor does any of it do a half-decent job of answering my simple questions. Why is it so difficult for you to accept the power of your own beautiful mind and still love God? Nothing can disprove God's existence, and I'm not trying to imply that anything can. But the BIBLE is a work of MAN.
slugdeez 2 years ago
have you ever opened the bible ??? have you ever came across some true wisdom-words in it ? do you get that the bible is a manual to live according to ? and do you get the last thing which is: if we christians denyied the Bible, we would denyed our faith. - we believe that they were not telling lies ( see a bunch of the "fuck" comment above ) - The Bible is a book of such an importance that we guess, and BELIEVE that it can be trusted.
Hwaigon 2 years ago
I have a secret. Last night, God came to me in a dream and commanded me to change my ways. He told me that I should no longer mercilessly ridicule any of the following kinds of people when they say irredeemably stupid things: the mentally inept, people who can't spell, people who can't defend themselves in a debate and who resort to saying "FUCK FUCK FUCK DERRR!" because of it...
slugdeez 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
...and people who are too dumb to recognize that the bible is a book written by men who knew that there would always be people dumb enough to believe every word of it without ever questioning its authenticity. Seeing as how you fall perfectly into each of these categories, I'll refrain from pointing out how grossly ignorant and childish your comments were in the context of an otherwise adult conversation that you ("DERR FUCK DERR!") chose to ram your moronic opinions into. Think b4 you speak plz
slugdeez 2 years ago
thats the point of view of you unbeliever.
I am questioning its authenticity. look, im sure that those men were aware of the burden of the responsibility. The bible is the basic of our religion. and the were believers.
the reason for my childich ( derr fuck derr ) was that i ve heart comments like your thousand times, so do not think you ve made out something special. And anyway, i dont know whats your goal. yeah, i do not need the bible to believe in God. but its fine to read about God.
Hwaigon 2 years ago
How comes it that you are disregarding that an infallible God inspired them (2 Peter 1:20-21)? Could He not have overcome their fallibility in speaking through them? Some would say (such as you might), "God didn't tell you the Bible is infallible, the men who wrote it did." Since God inspired it, then He -did- write it.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
Why can't you make that easy distinction between the two? Why are you compelled to relinquish your God-given intelligence to the printed words of some book that has been altered so many times over the course of history that it barely resembles the original text anymore? God is not embodied in words. God is far too great and profound for science to explain or deny, so what makes you think that a book written by who knows who, who knows when, can provide you with a fair and honest explanation?
slugdeez 2 years ago
shut the fuck up.
because we BELIEVE that those people BELIEVED that WHAT they were writing ABOUT was FUCKING IMPORTANT, and we believe that they were fucking aware that if they had changed the only fucking word, God would have been really angry and pissed of, do you fucking get it ???? DO YOU GET IT ??
arguments like : "you dont know who wrote it, where and when, and anyway, people wrote it."
we believe that its God´s word, we BELIEVE you asshole
Hwaigon 2 years ago
Also, why is it wrong to approach questions like these with logic and reasoning? You can't just choose to selectively employ logic whenever it suits you, and then disregard obvious, scientifically deduced facts when discussing religion. I'm not saying that there isn't some kind of all-pervading, divine, unobservable force in the universe LIKE God, but simple common sense derived from logic says that a Christian God, as he is described in the bible, is nothing more than a fairy tale.
slugdeez 2 years ago
AND, i didn't believe in God the way i do ryt now just because i grew up in a christian family or i have read the bible. I have felt Him, you will never understand this lest you feel Him too. you say God is merely a fairy tale? what is true and what is not in this world? we base all things according to what we perceive through our senses, don't you think it's too idiotic? because we act as if we know everything yet we know nothing at all.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
I mean, when you say something like "no explanation is needed," why not? You only know about the Christian God because other, older people in your life exposed you to the human concept of a Christian God when you were young. If someone told you to jump off a bridge, would you go ahead and say, "OK, no explanation is needed"? Wouldn't you instead use logic to determine that if you jumped, you would plummet to your death according to the laws of gravity? Wouldn't you then refuse to jump?
slugdeez 2 years ago
I believe in God because I could feel His very existence everyday and a nonbeliever can never understand this because he always rely on his own logic and reasoning. "No explanation is needed", I've already told you. NOBODY can ever show you His existence but only HIM. AND however a believer explain what you need to know, a nonbeliever will never believe unless you FEEL HIM YOURSELF. Not even a strong christian can explain God's existence because His existence is just beyond our understanding.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
and to make it clear to you, christianity is never an institution nor a religion, it is living through christ. anyone can call themselves a christian if he believes in christ, but of course, easier said than done. i suggest you read the bible before asking too many questions because nobody can ever give you the answer but only HIM.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
...the bible. If the bible told you that Jesus was born with tentacles instead of arms, would you believe it? Even though it is biologically impossible, I think that if you grew up reading that Jesus had tentacles and seeing figurines of a little tentacle-armed man crucified on a cross, you would believe it today. You asked me if I've ever read the bible, so I would like to ask you: have you ever seriously studied biology, or chemistry, or physics?
slugdeez 2 years ago
and please, don't ask me if i've studied biology, chemistry or physics because im a nursing graduate and about to claim my license as a registered nurse. Science and religion contradict each other, everybody knows that. science is created to explain things around us, but God is beyond science, everybody knows that as well. why do you think millions of people cling into Christ, do you consider them all as fools to believe such fairy tale? how bout u? have u assessed your belief?
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
Yeah I've assessed my beliefs. My belief is that the universe and whatever else lies beyond our perception of the known universe is too complex for us to understand. That's where I get my sense of wonder from: there is so much that the human race thinks it knows, but in reality all that we know is confined to a tiny bubble called earth. We know what we can perceive and observe and label through science, but none of that comes close to understanding why and how the universe came to be....
slugdeez 2 years ago
So I'm guessing that's where faith comes in: you accept everything that science and technology have already accomplished, but anything that is yet unobserved or fully understood must be the work of God. I don't think science is totally incompatible with religion. However, I do know that science isn't compatible at ALL with Christianity. There's a clear difference in my mind between believing in something like God and believing in a Christian God. Believing in something like God is ...
slugdeez 2 years ago
Do not get confused with God the Father and Jesus Christ His son. Before when Jesus was still not present in the world, God only favors the race of Jews as His Children, but through Christ, God considered that whoever believes in His son, shall be saved. As Christ had said, He is the only way through His Father in heaven. I think you should attend church and consult a pastor. that would be a great help.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
But you're not answering any of the hypothetical questions I'm asking you. If a pastor is just going to skirt around my questions like this too then there's no need for me to consult one. I'm not saying that I believe in God the Father, because God the Father seems to me like a creation of man. How can you be so sure that Christ even existed or that he performed all the extraordinary feats he's reported to have? You only know about Jesus because people wrote about him....
slugdeez 2 years ago
okay let's use our human reasoning this time. let's say jesus isn't really true, but as a reader of the bible which we're not sure if it's written by man or not, the question is, are the teachings written in the bible morally correct or not? about people's sins, lust, murders, stealing, evil desires. how about the tend commandments. is something wrong with them? the statements are simple, do not kill, do not covet, honor your parents... if i would be an unbeliever and would be reading the bible,
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
You seem to realize that both secular humanism ("there is no god") and Christianity are religions. It comes down to which you'll trust: Fallible humans (The evolution belief has been rewritten and rewritten and rewritten and rewritten and...) or the infallible God (The Holy Bible says "It is written", Matthew 4:4).
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
How do you know they didn't lie about or exaggerate Jesus' accomplishments? It still doesn't add up. At this point I guess it's just never going to make sense to me. What do you think happens to nonbelievers when they die? Do you think Christ is going to return someday? Do you believe in evolution? I'm glad I'm asking these questions to someone who has a thorough education in science, because I want to know how you can reconcile the scientific method with pure faith.
slugdeez 2 years ago
i would probably think of the bible as a book about how to live righteously than a religious book about God, and i wouldn't think it's that bad to follow its principles. but the problem is, as a human being, we hate what the bible teaches us about morality because for us, what we feel good is good, and is alright. but it doesn't work that way. for people, sex is good so it's alright to do it with anyone, anytime and anywhere. how about the respect for our bodies, for ourselves and for others?
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
You're right; it is endless. I feel like we're running around in circles now, at least regarding the whole business of faith. You mentioned homosexuality, which brings up another question in my mind. There are of course huge protests against legalizing gay marriage and abortion, and clearly you don't seem like the kind of person who would condone either of these things. Why do Christians feel compelled to impress their beliefs on non-Christians, homosexuals, and women seeking abortions?...
slugdeez 2 years ago
now about those impressing our beliefs, it's not forcing you people to believe what we believe in, it's because WE CARE. even though we're different in terms of beliefs and principles, WE CARE, this is just one of the things that God wants us to be, to love and care people and treat them as our brothers and sisters. People get annoyed with christians telling them these and that because they didn't want to be interrupted with what they want to do, which according to them is alright bec...
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
Suppose that there's a race of intelligent aliens on some distant planet in a galaxy millions of light years away from our own. Did God create them? How would they know about Christ? And what about all the other religions practiced on this planet by people who don't believe in God the Father or Christ His son? Most of their faiths are much older than Christianity; are they all wrong? Since you've learned about the nervous system and the functions of neurons in the brain...
slugdeez 2 years ago
how about gay marriage? for others it's alright because they feel good about it and that's what they want. but in human nature, and PHYSICALLY, men are for women, and women are for me. and as a short, final answer to all of your current and upcoming questions, CHRISTIANS LIVE BY FAITH ALONE. how could u understand something which you don't even believe exists? no matter how many answers i give you, you will never accept them and wil never understand, and u will always find questions to ask.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
I mean, if sinners are all going to end up in hell anyway, why not let homosexuals pursue homosexual affairs, and why not let pregnant women undergo abortions if they feel they will be unable to care for their unborn child? Isn't it enough that you live your life righteously?
"how could u understand something which you don't even believe exists?" - I'm trying to believe it, but in order to believe it I need to at least begin to understand how it is real...
slugdeez 2 years ago
you know, however a christian explains you how he/she can prove that God exists, you will never accept their explanations and you will never understand because the only way for you to recognize God's existence is through EXPERIENCING GOD. i believe God not because someone told me so, or because i grew up being taught about God. I believe Him, because I have experienced His mercy and grace a countless times.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
it feels good to them. Just think, since when will abortion be right? It's murder, killing a baby, an innocent. You say, let them have abortions because they cannot take care of the child, then why make the child? that's the main point here. our very own mistakes affect the innocents. If they are not ready to be a parent, then wait to have sex till you're married. that's very simple. however, as i have said. people are very impulsive. doing anything that feels good, but not always right.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
...where do you think consciousness comes from? Is our perception of the world and our sense of self our soul? I mean, isn't it possible, even probable that every sensation we experience, everything we see and hear, every memory we have and every judgment we make arises from electrochemical interactions occurring in the brain? How can you make assumptions about the creator of the universe if you're not even fully aware of all the internal processes that lead your brain to make that assumption?
slugdeez 2 years ago
it's endless. i've been there in your position, i was once an unbeliever and confused, but God proved me Himself His existence without using any other person, but Him alone. about other religion, some were formed due to different interpretations of the bible, and about others such as muslim, don't know what they believe in. For me, there is only one God, and Him alone. let's make this easier. if you don't believe in God, then perhaps you don't believe in devils as well.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
...and not a product of some other person's imagination. The thing that really strikes me is that, like you said, I don't think there is anything I or anyone else could say to convince you that Christ isn't the son of God, or that there isn't even a God as described in the bible. That's scary to me because basically what you're saying is that it doesn't matter to Christians whether or not God really exists. For the sake of argument, let's say there is no God.
slugdeez 2 years ago
of course it matters that God exists, and we know He does. i just wanted to level with your thinking, that is using the human logic. i cannot continue talking with you about religion since you don't have belief. just as thomas aquinas did so atheists could understand how God exists. If anything starts with something, then there should be something that has no beginning and no end to start everything, etc... even aquinas who was once an atheist ended up believing in God.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
But I still don't think you understand the distinction I'm trying to make between God the Father as described in the bible, and some force in the universe like God. I believe in something like God, but I don't believe in the Christian God because the Christian God is the product of an institutionalized religion and is wrapped up in fictitious biblical stories written by men. You say you know that God exists because you've experienced him and not because you've grown up in a culture...
slugdeez 2 years ago
...that nurtured a belief in God the Father and Christ His son. But what if you grew up alone in the wilderness without any kind of religious influences? You might come to believe in some divine force that created life, but the name of Jesus Christ would mean absolutely nothing to you. Are you saying that, even under those circumstances, you would still have faith that God the Father and His son truly exist? Every single belief that anybody has is shaped by his or her cultural upbringing.
slugdeez 2 years ago
And the whole debate over abortion seems to me like an issue of Christian morals. Some people, you included, say that abortion is equivalent to murder, while others, like myself, would argue that abortion can't be argued for or against using religious reasoning because not everyone who seeks an abortion believes in God or Christ. I know you care about other people and you want to help them by denouncing their choice to seek an abortion, but isn't that a little presumptuous of you? ...
slugdeez 2 years ago
Because in the end, you have no legitimate proof that God exists, and atheists have no completely unassailable arguments to conclude that God does not exist. Since believers and nonbelievers are at a standstill in the abortion debate, what gives believers the right to harass nonbelievers who choose to have an abortion? It would be like atheists trying to outlaw baptisms because they forcibly induct infants into a religion that might not suit them as they get older.
slugdeez 2 years ago
Truth is not only know by natural reasoning, which you and other unbelievers are using, as Jesus had said, man cannot live by bread alone. There is also what we call supernatural reasoning which is a byproduct of faith. You keep on talking about CHRISTIAN GOD but there is only one God in this world, and it is Him the force in the universe you are pertaining to. The problem is, you believe there is a higher power, but you won't even acknowledge that higher power. However you call Him...
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
I agree! One makes presuppositions for every line of thought. They determine how you interpret things. Molecules-to-man evolution, which has never been observed, depends on its presupposition that God does not exist. However, my view has answers to all things, which an evolutionary worldview cannot support [such as morals, truth and logic].
On the topic of abortion, I would tell any pro-choice advocate to walk up to a person with cerebral palsy and tell them that they should have been aborted.
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
"On the topic of abortion, I would tell any pro-choice advocate to walk up to a person with cerebral palsy and tell them that they should have been aborted."
I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on stem cell collection and research.
slugdeez 2 years ago
Now you're simply jumping to the conclusion that because I don't believe in the bible's oversimplified, cartoonish interpretation of God, I must not believe in anything like God. You've also made the mistake of suggesting that the theory of evolution is somehow incompatible with the belief that supernatural forces (i.e., forces that science cannot explain) are also at work throughout the universe. My point is not that God does not exist; it's that God cannot be explained by the bible or science.
slugdeez 2 years ago
The hypothesis of evolution was created on the presupposition of materialism- that only energy and mass exist, which contradicts the existence of anything not either, such as God- and natural laws, interestingly enough. (The laws of logic we know to be true, but they can't be explained by evolutionary views. Or the law of biogenesis, which states that life always comes from life. Evolution, at least once, violates this.)
WhiteBomber 2 years ago
The error in your line of reasoning stems from an inadequate understanding of what a "theory" actually is, let alone the theory of evolution. You're still trying to compare Christianity to the idea of science as a religion; in other words, you're attempting to
argue against the scientific method as if it were a self-enclosed, self-validating belief system (i.e., a religion) like Christianity.
slugdeez 2 years ago
Evolution is not a theory of existence; its purpose is not to EXPLAIN the SOURCE of human experience like Christianity pretends to do. Evolution is a theory which attempts to DESCRIBE a particular facet of existence IN TERMS of human experience. The scientific method does not haughtily say, "Given the right amount of time and resources, I can EXPLAIN every nuance of existence so thoroughly that the human mind will be able to one day...
slugdeez 2 years ago
comprehend itself, its origin,
and its surroundings fully and unambiguously." The scientific method can only DESCRIBE
cause-and-effect relationships as they are interpreted phenomenologically-- based on human PERCEPTIONS.
Any "theory" that claims to be able to explain the source and purpose of human experience
without first accepting and applying previously established laws of human experience that
came about through...
slugdeez 2 years ago
millennia of observing objective, universal cause-and-effect relationships
is necessarily bunk. One can think scientifically and still ponder the vast, infinitely
complex, and ultimately elusive forces which guide the humanly perceptible phenomena of mass
and energy without sacrificing one's belief in certain immutable laws that govern
the behavior and interactions of mass and energy. Stop trying to hyper-classify beliefs.
slugdeez 2 years ago
perhaps if i would be born without the knowledge about christ, i would still sure be experiencing the power of the almighty above and would believe there is indeed God, and that would lead me to search for Him, and that would lead me to knowing Christ as well. And about abortion, the point here is WE VALUE LIFE, we can their pain, their suffering, we have compassion, we feel for others. What would you think if your mother tried to abort you? or where would you be now if you've been aborted?
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
Ok I have to get into this. I had two abortions when I was a teen in the 80's And honestly...I wish someone would have told me the truths about this horrible procedure.
ponytailsgone 2 years ago
OK, well, your personal anecdote doesn't really contribute at all to the discussion rahneejoyce and I were having. Could you elaborate a little more? Are you religious, or simply a believer in some kind of God? Define "truths" for me. Where do you stand in the debate on legalizing abortion?
slugdeez 2 years ago
that is how a christian is made dear, traveling in the desert till you find an oasis. you suffer, you thirst, you hunger, and it is that HIgher Power above who will feed you and quench your thirst, and that's how you experience His mercy and grace. That's when you start to believe and strengthen your faith. And that is why Jesus was sent by God, to spread His word. as said in the bible, he was a jew, to get the jews, as an unlawful, to get the unlawful, as a man, to get men.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
...(for the sake of argument, let's say there is no God). Clearly, there is no way I can convince you that he doesn't exist using any sort of logical reasoning. So would you still believe in God as faithfully as you do now, even if he wasn't real?
slugdeez 2 years ago
Father, Allah, Yahweh, etc etc... there is and will be only ONE GOD. There is only one creator, and it is up to an individual how he/she will seek God and experience His power. He who created all things is our God, and nobody else. indeed we all have out own choices and free will, but we cannot deny the fact that not everything is in our control, and that's when the works of God enter. that's how you witness His power. and nothing's coincidence in this world my dear.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
a personal journey, a questioning of one's self and one's purpose in the universe, as well as questioning the universe itself scientifically. When I have exhausted every bit of faith and every bit of common sense in trying to understand how I am here and how I got here, the only explanation I have left is that there is something like God. But as far as Christ is concerned? No, it isn't plausible at all. I can consider a Christian God and quickly come to a conclusion about its authenticity...
slugdeez 2 years ago
In the old testament, God used so many people and even showed so many miracles yet the world still filled with unbelievers. God used Mary to give birth to Christ, His son, in the form of human flesh, to pay for our sins. Can you imagine a Father giving up His son for people who don't even love Him and believe in Him? God said that whoever believes in His son Jesus Christ believes in Him, just as when you accept a messenger, you accept the person who have sent him.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
...without exhausting my intellectual resources. Christ is a symbol created by MAN. Christ's actions were accounted by MAN. Christ's name is carried on and praised through the centuries by MAN. Christ WAS A MAN. I believe in something like God because it would be completely without human cares. It would not have a human likeness or any communication with humans because it is not intelligible. It is a force propelling life forward, not some man strung up on a cross saving us from our sins.
slugdeez 2 years ago
ah, i now get what you mean and what you are confused about. you're confused about God and Christ, am i getting it right? So you believe in God the Father who created all things but you cannot understand who just Christ is? Have you read the whole new testament? because it'll answer all of your questions. God, as you have said and as i did too, is too complicated for us to understand. That way God speaks our language in a very simple manner for us to understand Him.
rahneejoyce 2 years ago
I know I've already written a lot, but I just want to restate that I'm not trying to insult your faith in any way by asking you these sorts of questions. I'm just so curious because I've never asked them before.
slugdeez 2 years ago
Comment removed
slugdeez 2 years ago
R u for Real, Is that a sincere question? Im sure it isn't ,but i'll answer anywayz like it is
1 Thesselonians 4:3(KJV) For this is the will of God, even your sanctification that ye abstain from fornication
1Corinthians 6:9(KJV) .Know ye not, that the unrighteous can not inherit he Kingdom of God? Be not deceived, neither fornicators,nor idolaters nor adulterers,nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with man kind.
The list goes on and on and on , a concordance will give u more passages
luciengrey24 2 years ago
I read the book out of curiosity and I was surprised that it made so much sense. He is not telling people not to date he is saying that before you consider dating a person really get to know them, until you are ready to really pursue a serious relationship don't try to. What is the hurry, have fun, be single, enjoy, travel do whatever but enjoy your single years before you decide to get married and settle down. Honor God in your single years.
paola0de0cristo 2 years ago
I am actually commenting on the boy meets girl video. (why did you disable the comments for it!?!?!?!?!) anyway, BMG is a GREAT book and I HIGHLY recommend it for anyone dissatisfied with the all too selfish dating scene.
virgingrl4ever 3 years ago
Now contrary to popular opinion, the Bible does have a general message for today in regard to general behavior for singles.
Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord.- I Corinthians 7:25.
So St Paul has stated there shouldn'n't be any commandments pertaining to single people on what they can and can't do.
InfiniteSky49 3 years ago
I think u must never preclude physical intimacy of a non sexual nature from a non-married couple.
In Philippians it states Christians should be tenderly affectionate one towards another. This must include physical expressions too, for love is expressed at a physical as well as mental and emotional level.
To use general verses like ''abstain from all appearance of evil'' is nonsense.
Far to general.
God has given us desire to the opposite sex, and he expects us to use them.
InfiniteSky49 3 years ago
INFINTESKY69- You have used a lot of scripture to back up ur questionable points. A certain individual that was cast out of heaven did the same thing too.
Defending recreational dating (with physical intimacy privileges). But really, When someone dates & gets in involved in kissing petting etc. How long do you think i will be before they land in bed ? Or do u think pre marital sex is ok too? Because if so a least i know where you stand.
TWIST NOT SCRIPTURE LEST YE BECOME LIKE THE DEVIL
onthefrontline247 2 years ago
Anything contrary to this is just another subtle attack on God's holy institution of the family.
InfiniteSky49 3 years ago
There isn't just ''one'' person out there for you. God has stated in his word we can marry anyone as long as they are in the body of Christ.
Therefore, in most cases, one should practice your intergender social skills through more frivolous romantic relationships, in preparation for more serious one, and, eventually, marriage.
At the most fundamental level, a single christian glorifies God when they display interest in the opposite gender at any age, and in perhaps, multiple ppl over time
InfiniteSky49 3 years ago
Don't want to get into a debate about this but i do want to ask a few questions.
1)Do you believe all these things u are saying, do u really believe a Christians we should date ,kissing & caress each one until we are ready to get married.
if do How would we be any diff from characters in day time soap.
If someonee starts dating @ 16 and changes realtionship an average of every two years,by the time the get married at 26 How many fellow church members would they have done this with?
luciengrey24 2 years ago
In this age of Grace particularly,