Jonathan Barnett - WTC7 forensic engineer - REVISITED

[Merlin5by5]

yada yada yada, try to correct wiki, if you believe there is a mistake.

I am sure they will respect your opinion as much as I do,

[MechEngineering45]

Why would our own government destroy the twin towers costing the United States a huge sum of money ? If the act was to get the go ahead for war with Iraq, why not crash the planes into random locations ? Certainly Bush would have still gotten the go ahead if 4 planes had been crashed into less valuable property.

[Skeptic121]

Folks, Prof. Barnett will probably recant and denounce his own work on WTC7. He will say his work on WTC7 is wrong, but will not explain in detail what really happened. For example, he will say that it IS possible to get sulfur from sulfate, but will not propose a mechanism. Or he might mention that carbon monoxide plus sulfate reacts to form sulfur and sulfide, but will not mention that this reaction requires an oxygen-free environment.

Prof. Barnett likes his job and loves his family....

[Skeptic121]

Barnett's work proves, at the very least, that sulfur was placed in WTC7 and that the sulfur contributed to the fire damage suffered by WTC7. Such an act constitutes arson. Does this evidence prove a conspiracy in advance of the plane impacts? It not, one must argue that the placement of sulfur in WTC7 was conceived and executed while WTC7 was on fire. Without a very hot fire in WTC7 the sulfur would have done no damage. Was seven hours enough to plan and execute such an exotic arson job?

[Merlin5by5]

@Skeptic121

LMAO, Did you even know that for every ounce of SULFUR in Thermate, there is SIX TIMES more Barium Nitrate? How come we can find SULFUR, which can come from many sources in ANY building, Drywall, being one, but we can't find the TONS AND TONS of Barium Nitrate that would have outweighed the SULFUR in the fantasy thermate?

[Skeptic121]

@Merlin5by5 Barium (or other) nitrate helps thermate ignite but is not necessary for the reaction; thermate will burn just fine without it once ignited. Any chemist can explain why we do not get sulfur (the yellow stuff) or sulfide from sulfate in a fire. It is called "oxidation state" . BTW, do you play poker (having served in the military)? Does Barnett have a "tell" or what? I'm sure he is a fine scientist and engineer but he has a terrible poker face; we can read him like a book.

[Merlin5by5]

@Skeptic121

The composition by weight of Thermate-TH3 (in military use) is 68.7% thermite, 29.0% barium nitrate, 2.0% sulfur and 0.3% binder (such as PBAN). (Source: Wiki)

Did you NOTICE the 29% versus the 2%? Hmmmm..?

Thermate relies on the Barium Nitrate to burn hotter, all the

2% Sulfur does is lower the ignition point.

SO, you manage to be totally, deliberately wrong about that also

[Merlin5by5]

@Skeptic121

By the way, since its OBVIOUS you don't know CRAP about chemistry,

the 2% of sulfur in thermate doesn't get deposited on anything it burns near.

SO, your fantasy about thermate is physically impossible.

Sulfur burns into Sulfur oxide, sulfur Dioxide, and works in thermate by oxydizing

the metals at lower temps. Oxydizing is tantamount to burning, and helps get the

thermitic process started at lower temps.

SO, you seem to be totally full of shit, don't you?

[Merlin5by5]

By the way, if you go to the wiki page on Sulfur, you can SEE sulfur on fire,

and producing it's characteristic "blue flame" that's been noted since the

1400s. It was used in Gunpowder, matches, and alchemy since then also.

SO, you should wake up your "any chemist", and tell him he don't know

shit from shinola.

[Skeptic121]

@Merlin5by5

Drywall is NOT sulfur, the yellow stuff. The yellow stuff is elemental, or ground state, sulfur. DRYWALL is calcium SULFATE.  Sulfate is sulfur that is ALREADY oxidized; already burned in other words. So...in a fire sulfate STAYS sulfate. It will NOT become sulfur or sulfide. Sulfide is REDUCED sulfur; REDUCED is the opposite of oxidized.

Poker players can see that you have had a "bad beat" and are now on a "tilt". Get a hold of yourself, little girl.

[Merlin5by5]

@Skeptic121

SULFATE is actually the oxygen heavy fuel and oxydizer combination.

SULFIDES are the post burned element.

TRY again.

[Merlin5by5]

@Skeptic121

Quote

"The sulfate ion is a polyatomic anion with the empirical formula SO2− 4 and a molecular mass of 96.06 daltons (96.06 g/mol); it consists of a central sulfur atom surrounded by four equivalent oxygen atoms in a tetrahedral arrangement. The symmetry is very similar to that of methane, CH4."

wiki pedia dot org / wiki / Sulfate

You are still never looking shit up. tsk tsk tsk

[Skeptic121]

@Merlin5by5

WHY are you copying stuff from Wikipedia that has NOTHING to do with the discussion? You made a mistake copying: you wrote SO2-4 which is wrong. It is SO4 with a -2 charge, not SO2 with a -4 charge. You are REALLY on a tilt...

[Skeptic121]

Barnett obviously wants to say more. He is holding back as hard as he can. He was able to study one piece of WTC7 debris. See FEMA Appendix C. He found "Swiss cheese" holes in the steel bordered by iron sulfide. Intro chemistry tells us that very hot sulfur gas hit this piece of steel. Hot sulfur gas did NOT come from drywall, which is calcium sulfate. NO WAY do we get sulfur or sulfide from sulfate due to a fire buring in air. If you want detail, send me a PM or read about redox chemistry

[chase2187]

i love how, a video like this, can start arguments about racism. and barely anyone coments on the video itself..

[MsgtSpook]

Another Aussie neo-Nazi ... what a fucking surprise.

When you ship a pack of criminals and whores off to some remote island and let them breed, instead of spaying and neutering them, this is what you get.

[tivathehusky]

watch?v=1Qn7NgneZaA

[tivathehusky]

whats with all the death-threats???

[Kilstryke]

History Channel got the collapse time wrong. WTC7 collapsed in SIXTEEN seconds, not ten.

[veim2406]

"WTC7 collapsed in SIXTEEN"

You are wrong about that... I don't know where you read or heard that magic SISTEEN seconds, but it actually fell within 7 seconds.... so, you're a plain liar.

If you doubt me, fin a video of the demolition of WTC 7, and time it yourself. Even if we don't see the building clearly for the last part, you can easily make a rough estimate, and it will be way below 10 seconds.

[Kilstryke]

If you look at videos that include the East Mechanical Penthouse where the collapsesstarted, then it comes to 16 seconds.

[veim2406]

You got me wondering for a few seconds there... but now I understand how your statement is incorrect.

It is OUT OF CONTEXT.

Are you convinced that wtc7 collapsed by gravity, or are you simply an agent spreading useless information such as this "16 second collapse time".

Nobody cares about the East Mechanical Penthouse as it represents a tiny bit of the building. What is important, is how MOST of the building collapsed.

The EMP only shows that preexplosions occured before the final blow.

[Kilstryke]

The EMP wasn't tiny, it was a couple thousand tons. It's where all the machines for the elevators, air conditioning and water pumps for the bathrooms were.

And since it was part of the building, it's failure is part of the collapse.

Sixteen seconds... deal with it.

[Focoist911]

Kilsryke, all you schills have schill-type names. If you think WTC7 collapse was an accident you are a fucking moron. If you work for an agency who pays you to pretend you think the above, you are still a fucking moron. Tell me enemy of mankind, what does it feel like to know you are now running scared motherfucker? You think we wont get the databases of ALL the schills who worked for them? You think your not a dead man walking?

[Kilstryke]

So I point out that the collapse was actually sixteen seconds and 90% of the windows remained intact and your response is to threaten to kill me?

[Kilstryke]

BTW, you misspelled "shill" and "you're".

[Focoist911]

yes your specialty being diversion. Obviously your career has been a flop given that you're still paid to troll YouTube for your jew masters.

Whats it like in Israel these days? Does it upset you that when the Hamas (Israeli created) stop doing suicide bombings that the Mossad take over and plant some bombs on little arab delivery boys to start the fire again?

Do you have any understanding of your life?

[Kilstryke]

If you REALLY think I'm an agent of some kind, then why are you talking back to me like this?

If I was an agent, all I'd have to do is make a phone call. Then a couple kilograms of coccaine mysteriously appear in your house right when the police show up with a search warrant and an "anonymous tip".

And then you'd go away for thirty years swearing that you were framed and no one believing you.

In fact... if I were an agent, I'd be making that call right now...

[Focoist911]

"If you REALLY think I'm an agent of some kind, then why are you talking back to me like this?"

Its important that I do not insult the human race.

[Kilstryke]

Jews are humans too, asswipe.

But that didn't stop people like you from murdering 6 million of them.

[tivathehusky]

I believe it was fascist germany under Hitler that holocausted all kinds of people. Funny thing....not really.....they were intensel supperted by bush's grampa.....who had many companies shut down for aiding war criminals. If you care about another holocaust, stop the war in Iraq. 1 million dead and counting.....saddam was hung for killing 5000

[Focoist911]

"killstryke", honestly, you have to be BEYOND fucking moron not to work out the 'puzzle', the 'retard puzzle' that you just got done a USS Liberty style but times 100. (do the maths).

Listen to me diehard moron - you just lost America. And it was fools like you who were trusted to keep the fort. You lost us man. You betrayed everyone. You lost all that was perfect. Perfect. You lost it.

[Kilstryke]

Could you please explain what your are trying to say in ENGLISH, please?

[Focoist911]

I said, why dont you kill yourself? Dont you think it would be better for all humanity?

Or would you rather argue 1 trillion to one probability?

[Kilstryke]

BTW, if you look at videos of WTC7 collapsing, you will notice there is no mass breaking of windows.

Demolition charges would have blown out every window on each floor. 90% of the windows in WTC7 were intact all the way down.

[wytkracka]

gravity is pretty much the only reason anything falls to the ground

[Focoist911]

Correct. Better move out of the apartment shoebox you are living in at present. It might totally collapse exactly like a controlled demolition.

[Focoist911]

You know John Barnett was here in this thread a few months ago. He is a jew I warn you. But I have his mobile number and you can ask him. Make sure you record the call.

[newdad1107]

As well as it is justifiably understood that a cleanup was initiated immediately due to the possibility of survivors. WTC 7 being already demolished was an ideal position to place a staging point for rescue operations for the towers for a couple of reasons. 1. its already demolished so theres no demo work needed cleanup can immediately start. 2. close proximity to the site. 3. best access to clear roads for supplies and equipment.

[Focoist911]

It took weeks to clean up WTC7, the steel was red hot underneath - don't get that in normal collapses and controlled demolitions. They used Thermate cutter charges. Thermate cutters are no used in civilian demo jobs for that reason, but they are 100 times less noisy and perfect for military war-time demo jobs.

[newdad1107]

And you know all of this because of your extensively irrelevant credentials. What a pompous ass. Also the WTC had 110 stories with 47 columns per floor. Since your so smart you co the math on how many charges it would have taken to achieve freefall. And then ask your incredibly powerful open mind how that type of work goes unnoticed.

[Focoist911]

Further, if you look at Building 6 and 5, WTC7 is a useless place to stage the rescue - First they have to clean it up which takes weeks, second they have Building 6 and 5 in the way. You denialists are astonishing idiots.

[newdad1107]

I think what Mr. Barnett was referring to was that they couldnt go through the individual beams from wtc 7 due to the fact that it was "contaminated" by tower 1 and 2 debris. It was near impossible to tell if the beam you were looking at was from tower 1 or building 7. And flashing your credentials is pretty cheap. Even though I dont see a degree in Structural engineering. Im sure your a pretty enlightened fellow but dont you think your a little out of practice in this field? (to be cont.)

[Focoist911]

Well let me tell you: For the last 3 years we had been telling everyone there is no way that WTC7 came down for the reasons given by Popular Mechanics - NIST refused to comment "because its still under investigation". We were mocked all over the net and media by PM who presented themselves as authorities who had interviewed structural engineers. Well what happened? Last October NIST finally release their report and agree with us NOT Popular Mechnics. But then NIST has this new ridiculous excuse

[PeaceIsRad]

For those people that can't see the big picture, you need to do some research on how the United States has been conducting business for the past 50 years. Find out why the middle east really hates us. Find out that war is nothing less than a business that beneifits those at the top. Look at our history of false flag operations.

Google: PNAC

Just do your research and you'll see the government isn't for the people by the people anymore!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

[Focoist911]

Fighting for 9/11 Truth has certainly dumbed me down and wasted my time over the last two years. Its like being a Primary School teacher, but the students, despite having the apparent mental capacity of 5 year olds, are my peers and friends. Its like arguing about whether the earth is round with an idiot playing devils advocate and just being silly. That is what it is like being a 9/11 Truther. its not rewarding, its just one long fucking sad and miserable tragedy.

[qixel]

<<< one of the 45% that believe (know is more like it) that the 'attacks' of 9/11 were a total sham to put the new world order on the 'fast track'. This puzzle of unanswered questions, ignored, hidden or destroyed evidence and compromised pseudo-investigations is like a giant mosaic...you won't get the picture from a few pieces, you have to assemble many pieces of data and see which explanation makes more sense. After having done this, most find government's story insultingly unbelieveable.

[Focoist911]

I live in Sao Paulo, Brasil and most of the people in the streets around me whom I can talk to are very poor. Their shops always have a television on. So I (at my own risk of upsetting the nest) have started asking them if they have internet - none of them have internet. The rich people who live here as well you never see because they have tinted window cars and only come in and out and view the surrounding favela as unapproachable - which is sad...

[scottgarren]

Considering that this is an alleged terrorist attack, and building 7 was alleged to have collapsed due to damage and fire, one would think that a large portion of the debris would be stored in one location, above ground, as a wealth of information.

Does anyone have an idea of how much of building 7 was saved for future study and where this material is located? (towers as well)

And, who is allowed to view and study the material?

I've never seen this question addressed.

[Focoist911]

Apparently none of WTC7 was saved. And there is reportedly a small warehouse where some samples from the twins were saved but Prof Steven Jones for example was refused access to study them - an American citizen Professor of Physics - refused access.

[Focoist911]

After 9/11 research, and all of his recommendations being ignored by the investigative bodies, Barnett got a visited late at night by the MIB. They told him what he would do. Now he works mostly in US Military contracts.

[RichardC111165]

I assume MIB (men in black) is a metaphor. I used to work in a lab supported by government grants. Even one enemy on the "study section" committee that awards grants can ruin a career. I suspect the offer was positive: "We have money for you and, by the way, here is a new problem for you to study." The same happened to Prof. Van Romero who said "controlled demolition" and then, "silly me, I was wrong." It turned out to be a good career move. We all know what happened to Steven Jones!

[bunkyjb]

This is a pretty silly comment to make. I have had no new military contracts since 9/11. The only military funding I've received since then have been some grants related to the development of a new test for PPE; but my first funding for this came in the late 90's and has decreased since 9/11.

Jonathan Barnett

PS Post your email here and I'll reply directly.

[Focoist911]

John these are my credentials and I have evidence for you 100% that they used the thermate cutter charges to do this job: Jake McCrann, Bachelor of Science (Chemistry + mathematics majors)), Bachelor of Engineering (Chemical), Masters in Businesss Systems (Jew major).

You need to face it old bunky. It was an inside job.

[bunkyjb]

Please do share your information with me.

[Focoist911]

Start with the paper at Journal of 9/11 Studies, Volume 22 - July 2008

The Top Ten Connections Between NIST and Nano-Thermites

Kevin Ryan

there you will find the refs to all the other material.

[Focoist911]

And I presume you have read:

["Extremely high temperatures during the World Trade Center destruction" by

Steven E. Jones,

Jeffrey Farrer, Gregory S. Jenkins

,Frank Legge

, James Gourley, Kevin Ryan,

Daniel Farnsworth, and Crockett Grabbe]

You are quoted in it extensively.

[RichardC111165]

WTC7 was a wide building. Nevertheless, the east and west ends of the main roof dropped within a half second of each other according to NIST. It is difficult to believe fire and debris damage could cause such a nearly simultaneous failure of widely separated steel supports. Experiment: use two blowtorches and heat up two small steel beams. Try to make them both fail within a half second of each other. Put the video on YouTube.

[bufflildavey]

Hey have you heard the saying "When you scratch a lie you find a theif" ? Get it?

[gnoseologist]

Doesn't take everybody a sledgehammer to realize the truth..

[wytkracka]

did this quack even bother to look at how the tower was designed?

[Focoist911]

Yeh I suppose the firemen did, thats how come they knew the building was going to come down eh? lol. Which way you want it? Both ways I see.

Israel played their last hand on this one. Israel dead now. The Americans will never forgive them for 9/11.

[wytkracka]

what the hell, jews now? I thought Bush flew the titanic into the towers. make up your mind.

[Focoist911]

"But yeah, don't bother with logical counterpoints and rebuttals, just keep up with third grade insults, biting, and hair pulling."

the most ridiculous "conspiracy" comments from from Bushites. "Bush flew the plane and jumped out with parachute".

[elbowbiter1]

Which quack?

[wytkracka]

Barnett, it's a much smaller building, so it didn't need to sustain as much damage as he compared it to the towers. Most importantly the entire base of the south wall was destroyed, the trade center buildings were almost unique in the the perimeter walls were major load bearing structures, whereas most any other such building the core bears the load.

[wytkracka]

Since it was the base of the south wall that got damaged that entire side of the building could no longer carry it's weight, in spite of the fact that the upper section was intact. It also didn't fall in on itself as claimed, it leaned toward the south where the weak point was, like felling a tree.

[elbowbiter1]

Oh totally I'll take your word for it... why wait for the NIST report.

[wytkracka]

But yeah, don't bother with logical counterpoints and rebuttals, just keep up with third grade insults, biting, and hair pulling.

[Skeptic121]

According to NIST, the east end and west end of the main roof dropped within a half second of each other. The main structrue (aside from the penthouse) dropped at nearly free-fall acceleration. Pretty good timing for fires and damage, but easy for a controlled demolition.

[elbowbiter1]

You sound so learned. Y' got all the jihadist conspiracy debunker-debunker lines all tee'd up and you bat them off with authority. Out standing! Now acertain the veracity of your sources and get back to me. I don't wanna get bamboozled by the "authorities" again (like I did with IRAQI WMD's).

[wytkracka]

Ok, as for the weight distribution my source is Minoru Yamasaki and Leslie Robertson, you know, the architect and the engineer of wtc. As for it's leaning and direction of collapse pretty much any camera that was on it showed the south side damaged, and post collapse the north wall was on "top" of the pile, meaning the south is on the bottom.

[elbowbiter1]

Are you insulting, biting, or hair pulling when you insinuate that I am a 3rd grader? Where is your official rebuttal or counter point coming from prior to the complete and final NIST conclusion?

[wytkracka]

I was referring to your clumsy attempt to mock a southern dialect with your "sound so learned" reply, though I suppose you'll backtrack and claim you never read my profile, where I say right off the bat I'm southern. If you're attempting to say I have no grounds for stating an opinion before the NIST release, then what grounds do CT's have in stating their opinions, or is it a different set of rules for you guys?

[wytkracka]

I guess it would have to be since you have yet to produce a single detonator, piece of det cord, thermite canister fragment, or any of the other thousands of pieces of equipment necessary to pull off a controlled demo, but your theory is totally plausible. Meanwhile, the conventional story is soooooo unbelievable in spite of hours of footage and thousands of eyewitness reports corroborating it.

[elbowbiter1]

You are absolutely correct Wytkrack. I agree 100% with you except I don't rule out gov't involvement in the attacks. I don't think that an absence of det. chord and blasting caps is good evidence because if it was an inside job you'd have to plan on leaving as little evidence as possible and whos to say they didn't find that stuff (and are we to believe them)?

[Focoist911]

Is that right? I guess then that your argument dispels the actual fact that fundamental physics

exposes the lie that is most apparent - that most Americans are so stupid they don't know, when asked, a country who's name begins with U, and I guess that molten steel and iron running like lava in the rubble is, although an irrefutable fact, obviously not true because of your above rationale and ass whore love of Gov Propaganda.

[elbowbiter1]

I seriously didn't know that you were a southerner. Nor would I assume lesser intelligence from a southerner. I was commenting on the authority with which you delivered your statements.

Both sides have difficulties with evidence but just because one theory may sound crazy doesn't mean it MUST be wrong. Therefore we are both on the same page.

[Skeptic121]

Here's a challenge: find a building collapse due to fire, war, earthquake, or anything but a controlled demolition. If it looks anything like the collapse of WTC7, post it here or give us a link!

[wytkracka]

Here's a challenge, find another building designed like the wtc and was hit by a high capacity, fully fueled, trans continental flight? The fact that something hadn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen, kinda hard to get stuff accomplished that way. Like saying the moon landing hadn't occured because no one had done it before.

[Focoist911]

David Coburn from Popular Mechanics is on record claiming that the NYPD has photos of the alleged damage to the WTC7 before it "collapsed". For some reason, despite 62% of Americans faulting the 9/11 Commission for not investigating WTC7 and also NIST refuse to finish their report, 100 million Americans think 9/11 an inside job - NYPD won't show the photos?

[wytkracka]

I'm sorry, I know it's youtube and not everyone is a native english speaker, but I'm having a hard time following this one. Are you claiming it's not a standard procedure for enforcement agencies to keep evidence private during ongoing investigations? Are you claiming photos of the south side don't exist? (a short google says otherwise)

[wytkracka]

Even more ridiculous is the claim that 100 million americans think it was an inside job. This is a gross misrepresentation of poll data, which has always been only slightly more credible than Mr. Magoo's eyewitness accounts. First, to determine that 100 million americans believe so, you would have to poll at least 100 million, and then get 100% of them would have to claim such. Considering they only polled 1010 people, they still have some work to do.

[wytkracka]

The "believe it was an inside job" part is another misrepresentation, as that third is comprised of participants that answered "yes" to questions ranging from (not direct quotes) "[do you believe the US gov't directly destroyed the wtc]", to "[do you believe the government allowed someone else to destroy the wtc]" meaning someone else was responsible but washington decided to just watch it happen,

[wytkracka]

to "[do you believe the gov't was negligent in handling 911]" meaning someone else was responsible but the gov't didn't do enough, like sending f-16's to shoot down passenger airliners (had they, no doubt you would be devoting sites to the recklessness of the USAF, in spite of thousands of lives being saved).

[wytkracka]

In short, the best way you could state these poll results in your favor is "one third of 1010 americans polled believe the USgov't caused, was complicit, or was negligent in handling, the events of 9-11". Hate to tell you how to do your job, but I guess someone has to.

[Focoist911]

You obviously havn't studied statistics OR you want to throw off people who might not have.

Listen Shill. I will delete you comments.

Here is another poll: 45% of voting American adults indicated they were more likely to agree "that so many unanswered questions about 9/11 remain that Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success."

[dudepal187]

/watch?v=nlPweD6R3Cc

[Focoist911]

thats not the poll. You will have all your comments deleted if you continue posting lies.

[Focoist911]

37% of Americans answered YES to the question which went pretty much: "Do you think the US government deliberately allowed the 9/11 attacks or actively participated in the attacks". I can't be bothered hunting the exact. If you post more lies I will just delete them. Idiot!

[Focoist911]

there is not one single mainstream organisation who has denied the valdity of that Zogby poll. In fact, the methodology is published at Zogby for all to see, the exact questions, and everything. Zogby is a Fortune 500 client. From Microsoft to the Federal Government - these are the clients in their Client list. So I would ask everyone to consider "wytkracka"'s motives.

[Skeptic121]

Oh good, you didn't deny that the twin towers had a core! Some of the early "official story" proponents used to do that...

[wytkracka]

No that's my entire point, they all had hollow cores, their existence, considering technology at the time, was dependent on the weight of the buildings being supported by the perimeter walls. Damage the perimeter and you damage the major load bearing structure and gravity does it's thing, kinda like the dambusting missions of WWII. They didn't use bombs big enough to blow up the dam, just big enough to damage it and let the weight of the dam and water do the work for you.

[Skeptic121]

We are certainly entitled to our own opinions but not entitled to our own facts.

The WTC Towers had MASSIVE cores. The core columns were larger and stronger than the perimeter columns. Search google images for WTC Core and you will find many pictures of the towers under construction showing their sturdy cores. Search YouTube for: WTC + Horseshoe and see one of the massive core columns bent into a U without cracking or kinking, indicating it was heated way over jet fuel fire temperature.

[wytkracka]

That's because they had a MASSIVE elevator system, I didn't state that because I made it up, I stated that because that's how Yamasaki designed it. The cores only served to support secondary gravitly loads and prevent distortion of each floor at the center of the building, while the perimeter walls, called vierendeel trusses, supported most of the building's weight and all the lateral loading. Even if the gravity loads were shared 50/50 it was the outer walls that provided all resistance to.....

[wytkracka]

...wind shearing. Have you ever been on the roof of even a moderately tall building in an inland city? These were at one time the tallest buildings on earth, and located on a bay, making for some of the strongest wind conditions, punch a hole in the part that resists the wind, weaken the rest that hold the weight of the upper, add some coastal winds and guess what?

[wytkracka]

It wouldn't have needed the wind either as the weight of the upper floors provided more than sufficient tonnage to overcome the intact walls. It's the same with the frat boy beer can crushing thing. Even if it's empty you'll knock yourself silly unless you press your thumb into the side. The jet fuel fire argument bandied about ignores the kiln condition of burning it inside a building. Test fires by NIST themselves produced temps in the range of 1100c. Steel's rigidity halves at 900c.

[Focoist911]

Fucking wind shearing theory now is it? Look, for the last 4 years people like you claimed that WTC7 was brought down by a diesel fuel fire in the basement, and/or the damage caused to the south side by the falling twins.

[Focoist911]

You claimed 25% of the WTC7 was cut out by damage on the south side. And then finally NIST release their report and disclaim all of that and pen some bullshit Thermal Expansion theory and they are now being sued by construction companies who all know it is a fucking hoax. Look man, who the fuck do you work for? Humanity?

[wytkracka]

My wind comment was more in relation to the main tower collapse. WTC7 was done in by the fires (it was fully involved, as downwind pictures show, not suffering minor fire damage as the upwind pix show) combined with the base of the south wall being destroyed. It didn't fall into it's footprint, either, it fell towards the damaged south wall, as evidenced by the post-collapse photos showing the north wall on top of the pile.

[Focoist911]

havn't you read the WTC7 REPORT NIST just released? They admit that the fires were only very minor and moderate temperature. 100s of engineering firms are now suing NIST for their Thermal Expansion conclusion. They claim one column failed and brought the whole tower down like a controlled demolition.

[Focoist911]

There was hardly any wind on 9/11. Keep plucking at straws mate. There are only half a dozen engineers who publicly support NIST's fraudulent reports on the collapses. There are over 500 architects and engineers at ae911truthDOTorg who publicly denounce NIST's report as fraudulent and all agree it had to be explosives planted that brought the towers down. But you keep hugging your NWO propaganda TeeVee mate. Go be a good slave now.

[Focoist911]

The were designed to withstand 707 impacts at 600mph. End of fucking story you fucking wank knob.

[wytkracka]

OH! you're absolutely right! my bad, that's why they fell immediately on impact....wait, they didn't, hrrrmmmm, almost as if it were the ensuing fire combined with the structural damage that brought them down.

[Focoist911]

You can see in the footage that the ensuing fires had already died out. So they were cooler when the towers finally collapsed than 20 minutes earlier when they were raging more. Jet fuel burns just like petrol. Its a hydrocarbon open-air office fire - This doesn't cause steel structures to fail. How stupid are you? What the hell is a pot-belly stove? What is your steel cooking pot made of? Put it on the hottest gas flame and leave over night. Still there. Doesn't melt. The heat disapates.

[Focoist911]

wytkracker, 400 firefighters didn't think the buildings were going to come down. They all died. Also D Martini, one of the senior engineers who built the towers died in the collapse. He had an office there and was running around trying to help people. These people put their life on knowing the buildings were safe. But you just keep up this ridiculous denialism man.

[Focoist911]

OMG, wykracka you want to be VERY careful with your job now. We are tracking all IPs and hunting ALL you liars down. We are going to have trials for this mass murder. You think you are sitting cushion over there spewing your blatant lies? IT will be a hanging for you wykracka.

[wytkracka]

If you want to meet I'll send you an address down the street, great mojitoes. mojitos? mojito's? great (plural of mojito here)

ooOOOOoooo and tapas, I love it the smoked gouda with fig syrup

[Focoist911]

wykracker are you deliberately lying? The towers were built to withstand 707 impact at 600mph. I wish I had collected the vids - I have seen three videos of former WTC engineers boasting about how the towers could withstand these impacts BEFORE 9/11 happened.

[wytkracka]

again, they did withstand the impacts, but not the fire, it's like someone got shot in a non-vital area, but caught gangrene, and died. They survived the bullet wound itself but not the ensuing infection. Granted the infection wouldn't have occured had it not been for the bullet, but it wasn't the bullet that killed them.

[Focoist911]

Don't you know about whistleblower Kevin Ryan who lost his job at UL who were contracted by NIST to test the steel under the fire conditions and found that the fires were not sufficient to cause the trusses to fail? Don't you realise that immediately there were experts on TV claiming the towers were hollow (no core) and that the fires melted the steel? Don't you realise that the NIST report was based around doctored and fraudulent results? Don't you pay attention?

[Focoist911]

Skeptic, I even have seen 2006-2007 mainstream media presentations about the collapse claiming that the fires were so hot they melted the steel - I kid you not man. Their guest was Popular Mechanics. The host stated that the fires melted the steel and then the PM guest didn't correct him. It was all so obviously a propaganda plant. Look man, they murdered 3000 innocent people. I want justice. Those propagandists need to face Nuremberg like the Nazis did.

[veim2406]

"it's a much smaller building"

That claim is irrellevant, what is important, is the area the building covers, its shadow at sun peak if you prefer.

WTC 7 is actually wider then 1 and 2.

If what you meant is that more explosives are necessary for 1 and 2 than for 7 in order to bring'em down, then I agree.

The amount of explosives needed is relative to its volume.

[wytkracka]

Right, trying going to any architectural safety inspector and explaining that a building's size is irrelevant to the load bearing stresses.

[Skeptic121]

How DARE you call Prof. Barnett a quack?

The man has not said a single irresponsible word. He avoids drawing any unsupported conclusions. Do you think insults are a substitute for an argument, an education, or an intellect? FYI, Prof. Barnett does NOT endorse any controlled demolition theory.

[wytkracka]

I call him a quack because he consistently ignores the fact that, again, a significant portion of the towers load bearing structures were destroyed by falling debris. The fire didn't need to melt the steel or burn any other supports, it only needed to weaken it enough to let gravity take over. For christ's sake this is how castles were sieged hundreds of years ago, does he think the laws of physics have changed since then?

[Focoist911]

Hey man, the flaw here in your approach is that you are ignoring that steel members were found, analysed, by FEMA foresnic engineers and reported to be evaporated at extremely high temperatures, NASA took thermal images showing extreme temps and there is a PBS doco from 2002 with site engineers complaining that the biggest problem with the clean-up was the molten steel and extreme temps. None of that is possible in open combustion fires. The best theory we have is Thermate.

[wytkracka]

Where? Show me the link, and the metallurgy test proving it was at the very least ferrous metal, the best anyone's done so far is show pictures of random glowing blobs and claim they can tell by sight it's steel and not any of the millions of pounds of other metals used in the plumbing, wiring, furniture, air ducts, drywall supports......

[Focoist911]

New York Times of November 29, 2001, regarding the collapse of WTC 7 on September 11, 2001:

"A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to

have been partly evaporated in extraordinarily high temperatures, Dr.

Barnett said."] - Didn't you read the description on my video? Its right there in front of you. Also go find the PBS 2002 doco

[wytkracka]

Still nothing there proving it was steel they were looking at, key word "appeared". Didn't you read what you just typed?

[proudfootz]

There was no good reason to destroy the evidence. They can't even explain the evidence that did survive the cover-up: steel evaporated in an office fire?

[Focoist911]

There is far more evidence of molten steel than I realised. In this PBS 2002 doco all of the Gorund Zero engineers are openly talking about molten steel: watch?v=oM7HI4kjtvA

What amazes me is that the footage in the second half of that doesn't appear in the latest Loose Change. I suspect they are holding out on the undeniabilty of motlen steel. Be careful with LC.

[Skeptic121]

The steel was moved to the old landfill on Staten Island, the garbage mountain we used to smell driving on Route 440. Within months it was sent to Asia for recycling. Any lawyer will tell you that destroying evidence never wins you any points with a judge or jury.

[fred10538]

Yes, I agree that their given reason for removing the WTC7 rubble was a weak one.