Cuba's Healthcare: Medical Apartheid

[Roofius2]

lies lies lies

usa all time only lies and propaganda

[Legacy285]

Why are we comparing Cuba to the United States? Cuba is a third-world country, we should be comparing it to other third world countries. When you compare Cuba to other third world countries they have one of the best health care systems. Not to mention the fact that their economy has been strangled by a US embargo for decades now. When you take all these into consideration they have a decent system. Is it perfect HELL NO, but its good cosnidering the situation there in.

[mfe111]

@Legacy285 glad u touch on that. problem is cuba was not haiti or the republic of congo before castro. cuba was more like switzerland, new zeland or austria. u right, dont compare them to the usa, but to small countries with high standard of living. cubans could enter the usa without visa, as they did not care to scape. there were more americans living in cuba than cubans in usa, and there was a waiting list of europeans seeking visa to live in cuba. now,u have to compare cuba with the worst.

[Legacy285]

@mfe111 Cuba was like Switzerland?? hahahaha thats funny. Before Castro there was Fulgencio Batista, and Cuba was run by the MAFIA. You think Cuba was better then? Cuba has been under US sanctions for decades and is still better then a lot of comparable 3rd world countries.

[mfe111]

@Legacy285 yes, there were bad things in cuba, a dictator pinochet style, and mafia presence like it was in vegas at one point. thats why there was a revolution. to bring back the constitution of 1940 and democracy, not communism. but am talking about the standard of living, puchasing power, economic oportunities with a large midle class just like in USA, n a healthcare that was at par with europe. the embargo, the excuse. cuba trades w the whole world, even food n medicines from USA.u know dat?

[Legacy285]

@mfe111 Every country under US embargo is being strangled economically. When the US puts an embargo on u it sux. And its not just embargo, Cuba has had to worry about US doing coups and things like that. I do not like communism, and I do not agree with it. All i am saying is, it is not because of communism that Cuba is in this situation. China is a communist country and is the 2nd largest economy in the world, and will in the next 20-30 years take over USA's spot as #1.

[mfe111]

@Legacy285 i do not agree with the embargo either. it only gives castro an excuse for his failures.in a communist economy like in cuba,n korea n the old eastern block, has proven to be failures, as the goverment owns all businesses n industries, killing the insentive to work n prosper. its an old proven fact. even the russians admited they could no longer sustain it despite vast resourses. mentioning china u prove my point. china switched to free market economy while d old rulers remained. boom.

[fenix144]

you fuckin idiot realise a part of these problems are caused by the embargo on Cuba?

[LunarPoetry473]

@fenix144 What does our Embargo on Cuba have anything to do with his point? Are you really that convoluted that you'll attribute their terrible health care system on the fucking embargo? In your logic, that would mean they wouldn't have hospitals like "La Herera" but they do indeed exist for the elite and high paying consumers. Our dollar > Cuban dollar, drugs are readily available for them as well, but not his citizens? Explain in your logic how our embargo is the root of all evil?

[jemmytaveras]

are you Kidding me?

dude where I live Meds are sky high, ppl r dying 'cause they can't go to a good Hospital and all ur saying is this BS.

U wanna know why Cuba is the best 'cause they have a healthcare system similar to that of Europe or Japan.

and to be honest (and I mean no disrespect) most of the people who had fled Cuba for the US where the Fat Cats that lost everything once Castro came into power.

Viva La Revolucion Coñio!

[LunarPoetry473]

@jemmytaveras Tell that to the right wing Batista supporters living in Miami, I heard they're living the lavish life with now.

[jemmytaveras]

@LunarPoetry473

They Won't hear that, believe me

[LunarPoetry473]

@jemmytaveras Then what you say is wrong, because many people like this man's father fled for a reason. They have a health care system for the common man with terrible clinics and filthy conditions. It's so funny to see him bring those people into a hospital only for tourists, people here just eat it all up.

[LunarPoetry473]

@jemmytaveras Also everyone is able to go to the hospital, even illegal immigrants, so that's false also.

[shurednichso]

@jemmytaveras

Totally agree.

[facellina]

I can only say that we in Russia haven't got very much forward from the Cuban sutiation in the hospitals for general public :(

[lunacomputacion]

So the hospitals for the poor people in Cuba are exactly as bad as the public hospitals in non-socialist L.Am. nations, where you may have to pay for your treatment, depending on the "free" (paid) or "evil and totalitarian" tendencies of the government.

[lunacomputacion]

So the conclusion is: there will be no good health care, even where it used to. Let's cheer about that!! See the millions run away for junk food and crack!

[calends]

@lunacomputacion Did we watch the same video? Your generalizations are stupid and irrelevant. I notice from your screen name that you're Spanish - Perhaps you're a little biased because you live in a quasi-socialist/communist country?

[lunacomputacion]

@calends A quasi communist monarchy!!! Is the UK a communist country when the Labour Party is on office? Perhaps you think that Roosevelt or Kennedy were communists too. I'm Argentine, however.

[lunacomputacion]

@calends Around here, you don't have to ask which side the genocides and dictators were on. Of course, it's the inverse case of Eastern Europe, but its very similar when you see it from the inside.

[calends]

@lunacomputacion You're right. Everyone knows that they were Communist, or "revolutionary" atrocities. When did I ever equate "liberal" with "communist"? It takes a giant leap in logic, or academic retardism, to not see just how bad things get when an all powerful state chooses what's best for the people.

[lunacomputacion]

@calends Well, the Western Europe social-democratic programs are not too different from the New Deal or the Alliance for Progress, in theory at least. And the countries where communism thrived didn't change freedom and wealth for opression; they were opressed (by the Tsars, Chiang Kai Shek, Batista...) WITHOUT the social benefits of communist rule; which wouldn't be attained there without a revolution. OC, without democratization, things may end back where they started...

[lunacomputacion]

@calends Ever since the English, American and French revolutions, no freedom or equality was conquered by democratic and peaceful means; tyrants had to be violently overthrown first

[lunacomputacion]

@calends And if you adress an ideological issue in a language you learned in school, you may sound "academic". But it's not the case. I'm a computer repairman and a freelance musician. Of course, responding insults to insults is a worlwide reknowned symptom of "illiterate retardism"

[enders7231]

This is awesome!!!! I teach and have so many students who get their info from the likes of michael moore I can't wait to show this video in class tomorrow!!! Thank you for posting it

[llanesyasmani]

He got all of this right, but I do believe the mortality rate for babies is lower in Cuba. When I went to visit my mom in Cuba about a year ago, my wisdom teeth started acting up, so I decided to take them out there since what the heck, it was free. The funny thing is that when I went to the dentist, they had no anesthesia, instruments, or even a decent doctor to take care of it. In the end I ended up waiting to go back and pay 1500 dollars for the operation here. So, make your own conclusion.

[treez878]

This is disgusting. How can you offer a hospital that looks like a resort to foreigners, and then allow your own people to suffer to this extent?

[oleggy]

@treez878 Well...it is true that they treat foreigners for cash, yet it does not mean they don't treat their own. They have been following the Soviet model where there are separate facilities for "more important people" - that is anfair. However, in many instances the treatment offerred there is not much different, even if with the higher comfort level. The key here is that some basic preventive procedures can sometimes save lives - and that is something Cubans excel at.

[mightyoak11111]

Shame on Michael Moore for presenting a false picture of healthcare for Cubans. It just goes to show that we need to scrutinize everything that we see on tv and read in the news. I hope this is not where our American HealthCare system is heading with the gradual socialization of our system.

[oasisfan2005]

@mightyoak11111

I live in England and we have a socialised health system. I'll be honest with you, it's not perfect, I waited 30 hours to get an operation on my thumb and my thumb was worse after.But, majority of operations are successful and they are free.Socialised health systems are a brilliant idea,we just need to be less profit orientated as a human race and be more people orientated,socialised health systems are difficult to maintain for everyone because of the budget that comes with it.

[ricenbeans82]

i was in cuba about a month ago. Stayed in the resorts and with family in the "real" cuba. Would you believe me if I said you couldn't even find bread sometimes in the "real" cuba. If you can't find bread, theres a whole lot of other important shit missing too! Simply put best Cuba's healthcare system is an admirable idea but its completely bogus and shitty. Aint easy to get to the hospital out there either, unless you got money ofcourse but what real cuban has money........

[Pvjinflight]

@ricenbeans82 If thats true, then how Cuba have better newborn lifetime expectancy than USA and any other caribbean island state? They are 37. from whole world in that statistic, their life time expectancy is better than many pretty rich European countries.

It would not be possible if health care would be bad.

[ricenbeans82]

@Pvjinflight c'mon really dude? The people of cuba are going through what you could possibly call modern day slavery. They are not treated as well as you might think. And as for cubans living longer then americans. Hey we here in the USA got the best government money can buy, freedom..... So with freedom comes a big price, you get to do alot of shit you are not allowed to do in cuba. For example doing drugs, and eating really unhealthy food. Who would have thought unhealthy food is bad for you

[oleggy]

@ricenbeans82 Get real here. I have never smoked nor drank, played soccer in high school and college, ate vegetables all life long. Also if it pleases you, I am a college graduate, MBA holder with accounting concentration....and a person who searches the internet to find out if my verious symptoms are serious anough to go see a doctor. The thing is - you are delusional. The country is falling behind fast...and especially in health care.

[MEDINAINMIAMI]

viva CUBA w/o the WORMS in Miami and Washington

[hiram569]

Democrats hail Cuba's healthcare system as their utopian model.

[GenitalMutilation666]

thats not true and you know it. if you actually believe democrats are different than republicans in any way but words, you're an idiot. america has one party that pretends to disagree with each other. whoever doesnt believe that has incredibly shallow political views

[ricenbeans82]

yes and no... But theyre different how can you not see that. They both go about there snaking different ways. One example be the republicans wanting to privatize everything and the democrats taxing the living shit out of us for all there crazy social welfare and insurance programs... Republicans kind of hate those 2 things i just mentioned if u didnt know.

[greataff]

@hiram569 There is a difference, even under the free market Cuba couldn't have a good healthcare system because it's Cuba. There are many other third world countries that have a for-profit healthcare systems and have conditions as bad or worse than Cuba.

The United States has a good economic system backing healthcare (govt or not). The United States is a great country and would have great healthcare even if the govt tried to mess it up and take it over

[willpu]

OK WOW MAN GREAT VIDEO!!!!, TAKE IT FROMA CUBAN THAT LIVED THERE RIGHT UP TO I WAS 14.

i WAS ACTUALLY WATCHING MICHAEL MOORES'S DOCUMENTARY LAST NIGHT AND I COULDN'T EVEN BELIEVE HOW MISS INFORMED THIS GUY WAS AND HOW HE WAS MISLEADING SO MANY PEOPLE TO BELIEVE WHAT A GREAT COUNTRY AND HEALTH CARE SYSTEM CUBA HAS , ILL MAKE SURE TO PROMOTE YOUR VIDEO AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE .

[darkdragonsoul99]

cuba is basically a third world country is any of this a surprise

compared to other third world countries they are the tops

[Sam26100]

why doesn't this video have 100,000 views yet?

[unnamed00]

Like this is not propaganda...

Socialized medicine failed in Cuba? So if Cuba privatizes healthcare it would be better?

It would go to crap like in the former USSR.

[LiberalofLiberty]

is that some kind of satirical joke?

[unnamed00]

What joke?

[LiberalofLiberty]

Well it seems rather humorous that you're essentially saying... privatization will make health care as bad as a country that was completely run by the state.

By privatization i mean liberalization, by the way. Not the mere handing over of property to private hands, but permitting producers and consumers to make decisions for themselves.

[unnamed00]

You mean make a decision which company will make money off your health?

As far as the country that was completely run by the state, almost everything, including healthcare, was much better back then than it is now with privatization.

[LiberalofLiberty]

You presuppose the benevolence of the state, which presupposes your power to withdraw support for one person and give it to another. (Democracy) Yet it is undeniable that a market grants people more power of secession than a state.

Do you complain when grocery stores make money off of your hunger? perhaps we should nationalize the farms too.

[unnamed00]

That is not a valid comparison.

It would be if there was a famine or shortages and grocery stores were trying to run up their profits.

[LiberalofLiberty]

my point is that EVERYONE tries to run up their profits. Grocery store capitalists certainly would LIKE to make a profit, the fact is that they CAN'T. The question is Why? and more importantly, Why does this not happen with so many other market goods? And MOST importantly, What makes insurance so special that they seem to be able to do what other businesses would like to do, but can't?

I have an answer, but i'll leave you to figure it out.

[unnamed00]

Most goods you can do without, but when it comes to your health you should not have to risk it. When you need healthcare, you should not have to think whether or not you can afford it, and so no one should speculate off your health.

And you are implying that prices are kept under control by free competition? Well, whenever this is the case, it is made possible due to government regulation, because free markets, if left to themselves, tend to form monopolies and oligopolies.

[LiberalofLiberty]

Paragraph 1: This would justify the nationalization if food production. If you have no healthcare you won't live very long, but you'll live, if you don't have food, you won't live past a month most likely.

Paragraph 2: There are tons of videos on why free market monopolies are an economic unicorn, and why government regulations promote, not protect against, cartels and monopolies.

[unnamed00]

What kind of silly arguments are those?

Don't you read?

I said that you can only compare food production and sales to healthcare if there was a shortage or famine. That is why there is food rationing in dificult times, so that no one goes hungry.

Government is responsible for monopolies and cartels?? When has free market with no government regulation worked without creating problems? Why did capitalist countries have to adopt anti-trust/anti-monopoly laws?

[ThePintsizeslasher]

"When has free market with no government regulation worked without creating problems?"

When has there been free markets?

"Why did capitalist countries have to adopt anti-trust/anti-monopoly laws? "

watch?v=ScmHRcp_heA

watch?v=KyK6e0maOEs

Why do Wal-Mart and Costco support increasing min wage?

[unnamed00]

(1) Of course capitalists have used government for their interests. Government under capitalism is set up and supported by the capitalist class (bourgeoisie). So the government often acts in the interests of capitalists or a certain group of them, whether it is breaking up monopolies/oligopolies or supporting them. However it also has to respect public opinion and interests.

[unnamed00]

(2) Without government regulation or without government altogether, there would be much more monopolies and oligopolies (like before) , since no one would stop businesses from amassing power and influence and using them against their competition.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

cont

1 You got it backwards it's "Capitalism under state." The state does not have to respect "public opinion"(even if it did I see no reason why democracy is just:watch?v=qXSR7Vs9kOY)

2 "amassing power" there is little benefit to directly using force to get your way. States rely primarily on ideology; those that rely mainly on force don't last long. The costs of using force directly are large, but the state allows for the externalization of those costs to taxpayers

[unnamed00]

The state can't rely just on ideology and force; it has to also please its people to get support. Both ideology and ability to use force (army and police) depend on the support of the people.

Without a state the use of force is the easiest way to get things done. Look at countries where government has broken down; they are ruled by emerging warlords...

[ThePintsizeslasher]

cont A basic argument against the state: watch?v=FPlhUuGRTQQ Anarchy is really socialism: watch?v=z26ADALf9yk Statism is dead, 1/5 watch?v=PGIgOIFdnMQ Taxation is extortion watch?v=pyu5e63g9UQ The myth of private tyrannies watch?v=Ra9R0hXL-z8 For an Emergent Governance /confederalsocialist#g/c/B2625­7466F7D506F Issues in a Stateless Society confederalsocialist#grid/user/­B777F4BC7B0DBCCC

[unnamed00]

Anarchy is not socialism. I guess the goal is the same - a stateless society where people can decide and control things themselves. It is the methods to getting there that differ. You think that just getting rid of government is the only answer...

Some of the arguments in the videos are silly. Private enforcements agencies... How long till they turn into warring factions led by warlords... Multiple currencies, no taxation under free market... like that has ever worked out...

[ThePintsizeslasher]

Stateless Ireland, Iceland, and the Old (mild)West. But the account has been closed bc Gootube treats it's user like crap. The video "myth of Private tyrannies covered the "warring feudalism" and taxation is not needed for things like welfare and unemployment benefits, social security, medical care would drop in price dramatically w/o the state fucking it up. The warlords don't last long, and are usually supported by foreign states.

Just providing a resource, you can make your own decisions.

[unnamed00]

Yes warlords don't last long; they eventually establish a government, choose a leader for stability...

Those videos were not enough to convince me that everything would drop in price without the state or that private tyrannies are false.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

And no I don't think that getting rid of the govt is the only answer. I'm a Mutualist/Agorist. I wouldn't sit on my ass if the state fell, but I 'd like to see it gu by ppl simply stop acknowledging it.

watch?v=CV1XOR8l-Zs

States merely fool ppl into giving support by giving them the illusion they are in control(democracy). That and they simply buy demagogues and the media.

Anyway, here's some more links. make your own decisions

Links in the description

watch?v=13z_6QBf5EU

[unnamed00]

Yes states fool people but they need to deliver to the people to stay in power. The point is to make the state answerable to the people and serve their interests as much as possible.

People and society need to evolve and progress for there to be a stateless society.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

They only need to "deliver" what they make ppl think they need: welfare state, lower taxes, "universal hc"

Last two sentences: Couldn't agree more. I'd say a good place to start would be make govts voluntary.

[unnamed00]

If you agree then you should be thinking more about how to achieve this in practice and not only about how it should be ideally now.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

/user/auamoti#p/u

Check out agorism.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

(cont'd)

Health care, why it's shit in the US:

/confederalsocialist#g/c/F9D6C­C9E8B71401F

The US Doesn't Have a Free Market in Health Care (or Anything for that Matter)

/watch?v=eIba6_7Lw1s

What is wrong with American health care, and the simple steps you can take to start fixing it.

/watch?v=Nt0tKl0J-S4

[unnamed00]

So healthcare was better and more available in the time of fraternal societies? Healthcare in the US has always been expensive, and it is not about government helping to eliminate competition. You can blame the government for not regulating commercial insurance companies and healthcare costs enough, or not setting up a national health insurance system.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

Any regulation simply requires 3rd parties, not state. Bc of state regulation, the # of health insurnace companies I can purchase from is limited to ones based in my state-and bc of mandates of what they must cover, there is no competition amongst general practice, which would be tremendously cheaper. Bc of prohibitions on discrimination based on age, the young subsidize the old. The state has regulated enough.

[unnamed00]

Regulation requires authority. Even if a third party has respect, you are assuming it cannot be corrupted and influenced (the third party service is for profit right?). Who is going to protect a third party from attempts to discredit it or to set up fake third parties? Some regulations can't go without enforcement, so who is going to do that?

[unnamed00]

How are insurance companies limited by state? Seems they are more limited by your employer since most get insurance from work.

Prohibitions on discrimination based on age? You mean limitations? If you are young, you don't want to pay for the old, but when you become old don't you benefit? You want healthcare to be unfordable for you when you are old and need it most?

Leaving healthcare to unregulated market forces is not the answer to high costs. Healthcare has to be treated less as a business.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

cont

Your employer wouldn't be providing your insurance if it wasn't for the tax incentives the state provides:

h ttp ://w ww[dot] cato [dot]org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0505-23 .p df

Health care was less available bc it was a small industry. And yes you can compare then to now.

Of course profits were the reason they societies declined, bc doctors knew that if they limited their competition, they could charge much more. But w/o the state to enforce their monopoly on licensure/accreditation, theyd be nothing

[unnamed00]

Of course the health insurance system is insufficient, but this does not mean that government can't reform it.

[unnamed00]

Again, the societies declined for many reasons (government social programs, social trends were changing, ...).

You assume doctors could not form a cartel without government. Medicine is/was progressing and becoming more complex, and so it is/was not that easy to become a doctor.

Strict regulation and licensing is needed in this field, since otherwise you would have more and more witch doctors and physic healers offering healthcare services...

[ThePintsizeslasher]

Is it coincidence that govt social programs were starting when doctors began lobbying?

What would a doctors cartel do w/o a state to back their monopoly? If a doctor doesn't jump through all the hoops the AMA wants him to(10+years medical school, licensing, taking contracts from a limited list, adhering to their regulations) they send the thugs with a monopoly on violence after him. W/o a state, what could the cartel do? Who will enforce their rules for them, and....

[ThePintsizeslasher]

...What prevents doctors from breaking away from the den of thieves, dropping their prices, and underselling the shit out of them? History has shown that cartels don't last long w/o a state to externalize costs of using force to keep their vice grip.

What reform would govt bring? Every time they try to fix hc they fuck it up? The HMO act of 1973 subsidized HMOs when they were being phased out bc every1 hated them? Their regulations have done nothing but raise prices....

[ThePintsizeslasher]

regulation does not require state. Your questions on 3rd parties are trite really. It's not based on respect, it's based on reputation. When a regulator fucks up/bribed and dangerous products go to market, their word is discredited(same 4 "fake" regulators). They have an incentive to produce good results.

Who would go 2 witch doctors? Idiots?

"strict regulation" is often touted by astroturf paid by rent seeking(look it up along with crowding out) corporations/cartels.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

And they don't have to be for profit, but most may likely be so.

Suppliers don't want to sell things that might get them sued.

h ttp ://mises[dot] org/story/3440

[unnamed00]

Well I meant that respect=reputation.

What would prevent a regulator from being purposely discredited? Again you assume that everyone will be honest and perfect competition is possible.

You think people won't trust witch doctors and psychics when regulation is broken down? Practice has shown otherwise, like in the former USSR.

[unnamed00]

History does not show your point about cartels. How do drug cartels operate for example?

Again you just blame government for everything and think it cannot do any good in healthcare like it did in other countries.

[unnamed00]

Government social programs started really increasing during the Depression. The societies could not address the increasing problems. Don't look for conspiracies...

I still don't see evidence that doctors were persecuted for working with the societies.

You think a cartel needs a state to enforce their rules? What about one of your "private enforcement" groups? Or a bunch of thugs to intimidate, sabotage, or eliminate the competition?

[ThePintsizeslasher]

cont

"So healthcare was better and more available in the time of fraternal societies?"

More available and cheaper, yes. Better is relative. Obviously medical services have vastly improved.

"Healthcare in the US has always been expensive"

No, it hasn't.

[unnamed00]

So people had better access to healthcare back then??

Health insurance provided by fraternal societies was good in that it was not profit based (so why are you defending it?). However don't say that it was available to most. The poorer working class still could not afford it, so the societies did not solve the problem of making healthcare available to the lower classes. Also the type of treatment a person got was minimal compared to today. You just can't compare that time to now...

[ThePintsizeslasher]

OH NO NON PROFIT KILL IT

I spent my summer working for habitat for humanity. Take you presumptions elsewhere.

The societies were made by the lower classes.

Of course the AMA is why the societies declined, they ostracized(de-licensed) any doctors who took lodge contracts, and limited the labor pool of doctors. Thats what state does . Protecting one groups profits over anothers

Health care is subject to the law of supply and demand, otherwise we would not be facing the problems we have today.

[unnamed00]

When it comes to healthcare, it is not right to think about having perfect supply-demand. You can't justify keeping prices high because you worry that the supply won't be perfect. It is better for people to wait in lines than not get care at all.

The state can protect the profits of one group, but it can also lower them to help the people.

The AMA was against the societies' healthcare, but it does not mean that it killed them.

Also I thought that you wanted everything to be profit based?

[ThePintsizeslasher]

When did I "justify keeping prices high?" What I advocated would lower hc costs dramatically(in the US, I'm not versed in the problems other countries have). Do you understand the "supply" is not determined by any one group, but by the quantity demanded for the good? That supply & demand equilibriate?

Like how govt lowered gas prices in the 70s, creating long lines and shortages from the boosted demand for cheaper gas?

No, I don't want everything profit based, that's nonsense...

[unnamed00]

Well from your responses you seem to want to leave the most important things to profit incentive and free market.

For the 70's gas crisis you are ignoring the Arab oil embargo that limited the supply.

You complained about medicare/medicaid driving up demand by making it seem that healthcare was cheaper, which shows that you justify keeping prices high (at least until the supply increases).

[ObamasLipsAreMoving]

For the 70's, you're ignoring the fact that a Democrat named Jimmy Carter was in charge when we were sitting in gas lines. Now we have Jimmy Carter II in office. Can't wait to see how screws up health care! Oh, & you neglect to include that it has been the Democrats who have been the party of "no" when it comes to tapping our own resources. But Obama will send money to Brazil so they can drill? It may not be an embargo that does it this time - it will likely be our shattered credit rating.

[unnamed00]

You sound like a blind Republican fanboy...

But I don't care for Republicans nor Democrats.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

cont

..It's simply that prices, profit, and losses are excellent gauges for the amount of goods should be produced.

[unnamed00]

Healthcare is not a good, but a necessary service, so you can't think of it as having have to be in supply & demand equilibrium all the time. You rather have people die from not being able to afford care, or them waiting in line for a while to get it?

[ObamasLipsAreMoving]

In the US, healthcare cannot be denied based on ability to pay. Cripes. Would you stop telling lies?!?

[unnamed00]

You mean only emergency care cannot be denied (well at least officially).

[greataff]

@ObamasLipsAreMoving That's only half-true, emergency care cannot be denied based on ability to pay. Primary Care, on the other hand must be paid for.

My boyfriend has asthma, our system doesn't pay for attack prevention, just attack treatment. When the fed govt recognizes domestic partnerships he'll be covered...

But what about so many others who won't be?

John Cárdenas - Sales Manager-Great Affinity & US Govt Employee

[unnamed00]

There are many theories and explanations to why fraternal societies declined, but you only choose to point to regulation lobbied by the AMA.

No doubt the AMA has influenced politicians many times, but again you assume that it is government that is only at fault here and not the desire to make high profits.

[unnamed00]

Looking at Europe, the governments of Britain and other European countries started greatly expanding non-profit state healthcare to the lower classes since the beginning of the last century, which addressed healthcare needs that fraternal societies could not provide.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

cont

Regulation

watch?v=TZONonx4umM

watch?v=9P73R6kJnaw

"is not about government helping to eliminate competition"

It's exactly about that, and the restriction of entry into the market. Also, things like medicare/medicaid drive up prices by making driving up demand for medical services as these programs make them appear cheaper-like a price ceiling.

Watch the videos.

If you have, what exactly is causing hc shit up? Not, enough regulation is not an answer.

[unnamed00]

What is with you and driving demand up for healthcare? You think healthcare is some luxury good, or that people like going to see a doctor? We go because we need to. Stop thinking about this strictly as a demand-supply graph...

Again, before government regulation healthcare was far less available and the care itself was primitive compared to now. Countries with non-profit state healthcare don't have such problems with availability like the US does.

[ThePintsizeslasher]

(cont'd)

Monopolies

watch?v=_NoMwZvdcGM

Barriers to entry:

watch?v=gN8iiDGdD4M

watch?v=-KUfGRpWrXE

Cartels

watch?v=eumbzcG7qgU

[ThePintsizeslasher]

Also relevant

watch?v=5PHSSSekCf4

[beenz07]

Rationing food doesnt work and everyone knows that. There are other countries with partially/totally socialized medicine that is effective. I have yet to hear the statistic that proves our current system kills less people. In fact ill take it a step further and say that I have yet to see a country with a market "more free" than ours with better health care in comparison to those with socialized medicine. Free market fundamentalism is dumb.

[LiberalofLiberty]

You have "Yet to see" Are you some omniscient entity that can "See" the healthcare system of another nation?

No, of course not. You read the statistics of the WHO just like everyone else. The statist argument depends entirely on pointing at statistics put forward by statist countries and statist academics of those statist countries, because they have NO rational explanation for why rationing something as complex as healthcare is somehow EASIER than rationing something as simple as food.

[beenz07]

Those are arguments of character not statements of fact. Learn logic.

[LiberalofLiberty]

You're arguments depend on their character as much as mine, if we are going to throw economic theory out the window and depend solely on the words of statisticians (Which is what you have done) then we have to rely entirely on the ethos of said staticicians.

This is why i dislike arguing purely from statistics (pointing at numbers and saying 'aha that makes me right') there are so many factors and weighted variables that need considering, especially when 'rating' one health system to another.

[beenz07]

What statistics? Show me a fundamentally free market economy that has thrived and outlived all competitors. All of you anti state people seem to ignore the reality that the destruction of the state would create a power vacuum to be filled by private companies with far less red tape wed be looking at true fascism. in a free market "money talks" and that's it. we are too stupid to do everything ourselves. republics are necessary, but need to be limited.

[LiberalofLiberty]

I assume when you talk about 'Statist countries having a better healthcare system' (I guess the US is rather statist already)

Your argument is too broad and open ended to answer in 500 chars, 50,000 chars maybe, but not 500.

I would recommend looking up...

confederalsocialist#g/c/B777F4­BC7B0DBCCC

[ThePintsizeslasher]

"we are too stupid to do everything ourselves."

Division and specialization of labor.

Speak for yourself, not everyone is a peon and needs a daddy to protect them and tell them what to do throughout their entire life.

"that the destruction of the state would create a power vacuum to be filled by private companies with far less red tape wed be looking at true fascism"

watch?v=Ra9R0hXL-z8

watch?v=JhF3VcBJOEg

watch?v=G0DUUjFntbQ

[pame546]

In no way do I support everything what the Cuban govt. does, but on healthcare nobody is denied access to basic healthcare needs. Even with their sub-standard hospitals and medicines. The U.S. might have all the tools, but people who are uninsured are shut out and bankrupted by the system we have in place. We need some kind of universal healthcare in the US. The embargo is a tool the Cuban regime uses to infuse their antiimperialist rhetoric. Down with the embargo, Yes to universal healthcare.

[LiberalofLiberty]

And why are they shut out of the system?

Costs?

And why are the costs so high?

True News, 46, Healthcare.

....Go read.

[pame546]

I am not saying the U.S. is the only medical supplier, but its harder and more expensive for Cuba to find similar medical equip. and medicines to help to the Cuban public. So medicines like the newest antibiotics are hard to come by with and expensive to buy, ergo shortages. Because Cuba does not have enough money to meet the public needs. Is there medical apartheid in Cuba? Of course there is! Even though the U.S. does have top notch medicines and Hosp. but access to healthcare is horrible.

[MisterBusta]

Are you claiming countries make their trade-goods more expensive for Cuba?

And access to health-care in the US is phenomenal compared to Cuba. Any random, homeless bum that gets a heart-attack gets the full sha-bang of treatment in the ER. He always, ALWAYS gets top-notch antibiotics for infections just for walking into the ER.

You can't seriously compare the US health-care to Cuba, and claim Cuba's access to care is better. It's ABYSMAL in Cuba!

[XXXMRcoolkidXXX]

Well after the US embargo, major EU countries like France and Germany, which have some of the world's best healthcare, became much less likely to trade with Cuba. For Cuban medical care to become better, the economic status of Cuba must be changed. While the embargo may not be the only cause of severely lacking economic prosperity, it is a major cause of it. Without a prosperous economy, the government cannot succesfully distribute healthcare equally, it is common sense.

[oleggy]

@MisterBusta How would you know if for decades not no American has been aloud to set foot there?

[cwood4ever]

@pame546 Are you stupid access to health care is easy in America. Dont be a troll just call up the doctor make an apointment and your in withing a week. If its an emergency just go to the ER. If you dont have insurance no problem get Medicade, If youre old get medicare. Stop being a idiot, your not fooling anyone.

[calends]

@cwood4ever This is so true. I get free healthcare (as far as check ups and basic stuff) and I'm not poor by any stretch of the imagination. That being said - there needs to be something done about critical, expensive, healthcare in the US. I mean REALLY expensive stuff like medications that are worth more than gold by weight.

[pame546]

True, Cuba does have shortages of medical supplies and medicines, and many hospitals are not well kept. However, Cuba does a better job in preventive care and access to primary care physicians. Many of the shortages are due to the trade embargo with the U.S. because many of the medicines and medical devices that they need, have a U.S. patent. Thus, this guy also gives a one sided view of the Cuban Health System, of course its not perfect but it at least gives basic healthcare for Cubans.

[Saromatae]

While watching the video I wondered if the decades long embargo might have anything to do with shortages also. In any society no matter what system you have if there are shortages of any kind, the privileged and elite will always come out on top. However this can not be wholly attributable to Cuba's choice of national health care as shown in this video. I don't doubt the veracity of what is stated about Cuba's health care. Just a little dubious about where the blame for shortage is being put.

[MisterBusta]

Blaming the embargo is an old, tired excuse. And it's an excuse that is self-refuting! You're painting the US out as the only worth-while supplier of medical goods... which only supports my point. If Cuba has such a superior medical system, US health-care would be the one suffering from the embargo.

"Cuba does a better job in preventive care and access to primary care physicians" I guess you don't consider antibiotics basic primary care? Seriously, you need to do the research.

[payot]

@pame546 The only ones who get real healthcare are the Cuban elites who pay solid US $. The regular Cubans get crap$#!+ healthcare cuz they use Cuban money.

[Pvjinflight]

@payot If thats true, then how Cuba have better newborn lifetime expectancy than USA and any other caribbean island state? They are 37. from whole world in that statistic, their life time expectancy is better than many pretty rich European countries.

It would not be possible if health care would be only for rich people.

[payot]

@Pvjinflight That's because they abort babies that are considered sick or have little chance to live and they don't count it as though it lived at all just ask any Cuban doctor who defected to the US from Cuba.

[Pvjinflight]

@payot Nah i dont believe that they abort babies after enough time to see if its sick, but of course abortions do happen when people are poor and there is free healthcare, so they are free.

[Pvjinflight]

@payot And few sick babies are not enough to much change whole country´s life ecpectancy number, as most of sickness and deaths of population do happen when they are older.

[payot]

@Pvjinflight many of them also happen in the hospitals for the regular cubans who are simply left there to rot.

[oleggy]

@payot That is claimed in this video...I would really not take their word for it. Knowing how hard the health insurance industry fighting against the socialized medicine and how much money they have spent doing it, I question whether anyone has rotted away in Cuban hospital system.

[cwood4ever]

@pame546 Cuba sucks millions leave to get to America. The only news you get out of Cuba is from the government are they gonna tell the truth? NO. USA wins

[stealthswimmer]

well the embargo doesn't really serve the intended purpose (supposedly is supposed to pressure Cuba to stop being so oppressive). Definitely great for them to condemn the Cuban health care system. I'd really like for the US to get rid of the embargo though.

:-)

[elliotcheely]

well done sir.

[Eopyk]

Part 2: And those things should be left out from the market. How ever markets work perfectly fine when it is based on greed. The system america is similear to what most of the first world nations used to have but troughed that system out of the garbage can the same with private fire departments.

Let the market handle what it can handle the things based on greed and want not on need.

All love and respect.

[Eopyk]

Part 1: Yes true. I am sorry ifi t seemed that I am defending Cuba that I even say that is not a example I would use ever support UHC. But I support UHC and especialy now when I must always hear about people fo the simple that they cannot afrod incureance or do not have cash in there time of need. Markets and healthcare do not work for the same reason fire departments and markets did not work and aslo why police and market will not work because healthcare is not based on greed but on need

[Eopyk]

Hola MisterBusta I can say that yes Cuba may not be a good example of UHC but there is a ton range of other non Marxist-Lenist states that has it in various forms like most of Europe, Russia, Japan, Australia and parts of India.a large part of the Americas where it works extremly well in fact it shows to work better then the private incureance system of USA.

I wonder what do you think about UHC?

All love from me Jasmine

[TheUltimateMullet]

Great Video.

I happen to be left leaning when it comes to most politics. I do think we need some form of socialized care in this system where skyrocketing costs are causing more and more to loose their care.

However, anyone who thinks it's going to be like michael Moore's propaganda are deluding themselves. Taxes will rise, Care will be rationed.

This doesn't sound like the perfect system to me.

[ModelAnarchist]

Wow, another great vid, keep up the good work!

[pe3er]

hi again there, well in my point of view there should be a universal health care, no money paid More then the tax you pay each month.

and it sickens me to see that in cuban it has failed.

but i wonder what would you like to have it?

[MisterBusta]

Hey pe3er, thanks for commenting.

I wasn't attacking universal health care. I was attacking the Castro's propaganda. It just so happens proponents for free universal healthcare claim this propaganda as the truth, in order to further their agenda. I think this is inappropriate, and gives people the impression that Cuba "isn't so bad".

[AEVautomatic]

if you dont understand spanish that says socialism or death.

[AEVautomatic]

dont say ought to do just say should do or you sound stupid.

[MisterBusta]

I ought to remember to do that.

[AEVautomatic]

ugh

[legendre007]

Excellent expose, MisterBusta!

Another video on YouTube that is informative about Cuba and its deceptiveness about health care can be found when you search for "stossel cuba" on YouTube. In it, John Stossel directly confronts Michael Moore about his misrepresentations.

The YouTube channel "FreeStarMedia" has a video called "Sardinas vs. Cuban Communism" & it also promotes Logan Darrow Clements's documentary that exposes socialized medicine's dangers.

[MisterBusta]

Thank you very much! Excellent sources you offered! In my research I came across Stossel's 20/20 with Moore, and it was fantastic! Thanks for the other references, much appreciated!

[Eopyk]

So you think Cuba is an example of in general socialized medicine's? Come to Scandinavia or go to Canada, Australia most of Europe and Russia and Japan and most of the other devoplt world and see that UHC works great so great that none wants to more or less shift to private healthcare.

All love from me Jasmine

[NoBSTV]

Michael Moore is a Moron. Great job proving the BS!

[MisterBusta]

We must fight BS everywhere!

[TheSameDonkey]

Brilliant vid...

I feel disgusted...

That said, we have in the past had a very decent public healthcare system here in Sweden.

[MisterBusta]

Thank you very much!

And as stated in the vid, I am not attacking socialized medicine. I'm just fed up with the acceptance of Castro's propaganda regarding Cuba's healthcare. It just so happens proponents for free universal healthcare claim this propaganda as the truth, in order to further their agenda.

Thanks again for your comments. Oh, and I'm still thinking up a decent reply to your video! =)

[TheSameDonkey]

"I'm just fed up...in order to further their agenda. " I can see why... and having spoken with a friend who went there as a tourist and truly got to mingling with the locals a few years back, I believe your every word.

"still thinking up a decent reply"

Glad I can give a sharp mind pause...

On that subject I think the idea of an average (mode, not median or mean) could lead to something.

[loturos]

hey, great clip. thanks a lot!