Mormon 178th General Conference Jeffrey R. Holland (2 of 2)

[jobanne725]

I am SO grateful for the wonderful, clear, divine revelation of the Latter-days, thank-you, Elder Holland, as always

[jayhawk88z]

The Bible does not ask you to ask God if it�s true. It is Truth. and it's really interesting is how 19th century pulpit terms and phrases found themselves in the Book of Mormon. LOL

[leemastergt]

@jayhawk88z

So... How do you know that the Bible is "truth" exactly?? Who's word do you rely on to know that the Bible is true?? You've implied you don't want to go for God in search for truth. So where CAN you go in search for truth?? The Bible tells us that Christ wants us to gain eternal life by knowing Him, and knowing His Father. ( John 17: 3) So if this is the case then why would you NOT want to ask God for truth regarding a specific question or topic?? Why would you look anywhere else?

[martinh103]

Revelation 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

[omiolo]

There are over 3000 members of the LDS Church in the Roanoke, VA area

[omiolo]

Washington - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints joined with other faiths today in signing "The Protection of Marriage: A Shared Commitment," an open letter to express commitment toward the preserving of marriage as the union between one man and one woman. Presiding Bishop H. David Burton signed on behalf of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[omiolo]

@Mr545432 I appreciate the positive attitude. The Mormon can do attitude.

[MrRhino40]

Navajo Joe, you must be kidding. No physical evidence. You need to read a recent book called the lost city of Z. It is written by a non Mormon and in fact never even mentions Joseph Smith or the Mormons. But the evidence it uncovers supporting the book of Mormon is mind blowing. Things like discovering tribes of white Indians and the ruins of cities that once supported millions, and included roads and aquafers. All of this was not discovered until 60 years after the BoM was published.

[omiolo]

"We believe as we come to accept and act upon these values, we will be prepared to strengthen home and family, make and keep sacred covenants, receive the ordinances of the temple, and enjoy the blessings of exaltation."

[omiolo]

"Virtue" was added in 2008 when the theme was changed to read, "We are daughters of our Heavenly Father, who loves us, and we love Him. We will stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places as we strive to live the Young Women values, which are: Faith, Divine Nature, Individual Worth, Knowledge, Choice and Accountability, Good Works, Integrity and Virtue.

[omiolo]

leading people down rabbit holes is ANTImormon!

[LDSapologist71]

even better book "Prophecies and Modern Times" by Dr. W. Cleon Skousen.

discusses the list of prophecies that Joseph Smith got right...

[LDSapologist71]

@foryourpleasure72

There are MUCH better books than those is all I'm saying.

JOURNEY of FAITH by Kent Brown and Peter Johnson.  A much better book!

[LDSapologist71]

@foryourpleasure72 nobody cares about your anti-LDS rhetoric. Nor ex mormon drivel. Now go get a life!

[fitzsw]

The Bible points us in the direction of Christ as does the Book of Mormon. Both testify of Him.

[brendos444]

A prob for Holland is that LDS doctrine is totally contrary to the doctrine set forth in the Bible. Another prob is that the Bible sets out all doctrine pertaining to the nature of God, as well as all doctrine pertaining to our salvation, as well as all prophesies pertaining to the end of time and Jesus' coming. Tellingly, it also foretells false prophets. Where are the false prophets among Christianity? Luther? Wesley? No! The likes of Joseph Smith were described as false prophets by scripture

[LDSapologist71]

Joseph Smith wasn't the false prophets spoken of in the bible, because according to the bible, they would NOT all be false! Instead the Lord would call one and have him innaugurate the Restoration of the truth in this last dispensation.

[TheUnderpaidTeacher]

@brendos444 Awesome you get to have the run of "heaven" since all Latter-Day Saints are going to hell. It must be awesome to be you.

[howard011976]

@TheUnderpaidTeacher Your remark here betrays the hatred you have for not only Mormons, but for mankind as a whole. Who do you think a loving God would judge first, one who is striving to live the Gospel of Jesus Christ as he/she understands it and who loves others, or one who claims to have the truth yet smugly and gleefully condemns over thirteen million people to the torments of hell? Being pleased with others' suffering is not an attribute of godliness, but a characteristic of the devil.

[GohModley]

Is God a walrus?

[omiolo]

The news, based mostly on second-hand reports and photos, was disturbing, with people screaming in fear and roads blocked with debris. Belair, a slum even in the best of times, was said to be "a broken mess."

"Everybody is just totally, totally freaked out and shaken," said Henry Bahn, a U.S. Department of Agriculture official visiting Port-au-Prince. "The sky is just gray with

[omiolo]

With phone service erratic, much of the early communication came from social media such as Twitter. Richard Morse, a well-known musician who manages the famed Olafson Hotel, kept up a stream of dispatches on the aftershocks and damage reports.

[omiolo]

The Diocese of Norwich, Conn., said at least two Americans working at its Haitian aid mission were believed trapped in rubble.

[lakejeffery62]

I testify that the Book of Mormon is of divine origin and all mankind shall be judged by the testimony it gives. Its coming forth was in fact foretold in the Bible in Isaiah 29:11-12; by foretelling the conversation between Martin Harris & Professor Charles Anthon documented in [THE PEARL OF GREAT PRICE] Joseph Smith History 1:63-65.

[808smurf]

This man is true man of God.

I believe that Book of Mormon is true.

[BestEvaGal]

Now that's a powerful talk!

[THELDSLIFE]

agreed! this man is a "man of God"

a true witness of Jesus Christ,

as their calling entails,

he has seen the savior and he knows this

record to be true!

[THELDSLIFE]

I know this Book to be the words of Christ and adds to my canon. And much like intellectuals try to prove or disprove things about the Bible, I know that those men... Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Danel, Jeremiah, Malachi, & others from Old Testaments wrote their testimonies and somehow withstood the elements and time to reach our ears 2day. I have faith in Gods prophets & I know also that there WAS a righteous branch of Israel in America and the world now has their record. It IS a true account.

[NavajoJoe66]

The Bible is as full of nonsense as the Book of Mormon is.

[WhisperwindPancake]

You're an idiot, Navajo.

[NavajoJoe66]

Ad hominem attacks, eh. Nice. Do you have anything of substance to say, "WhisperwindPancake"..? Am I not correct when I point out that your religious beliefs have resulted in unwanted costs to a portion of society who do not even share them?

I mean, please, attack the argument, not the man. Nearly half of voters voted against Prop 8, remember?

[WhisperwindPancake]

@NavajoJoe66

Do you know what I am accusing you against?

Apparently not. You know nothing about me. Do not base one on their religion.

If you are to point fingers at the latter day prophet Josepth Smith, prepare to face the wrath of his decendant.

[NavajoJoe66]

@Whispering Wind Pancake (WTF is up with your name lol)

"prepare to face the wrath of Joseph Smith's descendent?" LOL... is that kinda like facing the wrath of a descendent of a Shao-Lin Master, or something... lol

Besides, all Joseph Smith's children followed their mother to the Reorganized LDS Church... you should know that.

[NavajoJoe66]

"...the one-wife system not only degenerates the human family, both physically and intellectually, but it is entirely incompatible with philosophical notions of immortality; it is a lure to temptation, and has always proved a curse to a people." -- LDS Prophet John Taylor (Millenial Star, Vol. 15, p. 227)

Sounds a lot like the sort of nonsense you people are saying about gay marriage now, doesn't it? So much for "traditional marriage", eh. LOL

[WhisperwindPancake]

@NavajoJoe66

Excuse me? 0.0

[THELDSLIFE]

Let's let NavajoJoe deal with the appocallypse in his own way...

Joseph Smith once said;

"Noah came before the flood, I came before the fire." ... God will take very good care of us.

He will have to brace for the full impact of the destruction which is yet to come. We can only wish him luck...

[WhisperwindPancake]

Thank you.

I've decided to ignore him, actually.

That is so true...

[THELDSLIFE]

Agreed...

Its the humble who will survive and not the proud. May we all be found with charity on the last day...

[armiesofheleman]

i will not deny what i feel, and i will not deny what was revealed to me..

i may not have desame experience as Prophet Joseph Smith had in seeing the Father and the Son.. but i know i can still do more.. to strengthen my testimony and faith desame as they have. with no doubt i testify to you that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is TRUE!

[NavajoJoe66]

The Book of Mormon ain't "true". It's easily proven to be a 19th century hoax. Sorry guys.

[cwarrenid]

Read it NavajoJoe. Just read it! You speak quickly without the patience required to simply read a book of 350+ pages. I bet you spent more time on "the lord of the rings" and comtemplating a truly fictitious story than on the "Book of Mormon", which is true.

[NavajoJoe66]

I have read it -- several times. I was raised in the church, served a mission, etc. Got into Mormon apologetics and found their "evidence" and arguments to be sorely lacking. The Book of Mormon is seriously a hoax. That wasn't the conclusion I wanted to come to, but anyone who examines it objectively would come to the same conclusion. It's a book of 19th-century religious fiction, not a record of a "lost civilization." Look into it..

[cwarrenid]

Evidence....how can anyone have evidence that the Lord exists and took part in writing this book. It is by faith. If yours is waivering, your free speech to speak out is allowed but misplaced. In the end, you will realize that all that you had and could still have is based on seeing evidence that has carefully been hidden. If you could see it, where would the doubt be. The chasm you enjoy with the church is something of your making, not the Lords.

[NavajoJoe66]

You're right. There is no evidence that any of it is true. Only the claims of Joseph Smith. That's an awful lot of trust you're putting into the claims of one man, who "married" over 30 women, had massive debts, and was basically chased out of every county he lived in for being a public nuisance.

Sorry but everything you're saying could be said by anyone of literally any faith worshipping literally any god. You might as well be saying I've made a chasm from Zeus or Odin. Same thing.

[cwarrenid]

Joseph Smith was hated from the minute the public thought he had a golden bible in 1827. History has done a hatched job on this man. I hear some people even say he was a rascist given our new political climate. Read about George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and most of the founding fathers.....they also are now "Bad" men. It is called revisionist history. What is true is that he was shot and killed by a bunch of faceless cowards. These revisionists make a caricature of most noble men?

[NavajoJoe66]

If anyone is guilty of revising history, it's the church. They're notorious for whitewashing, spinning and withholding history. Unfortyunately for them, the internet has made this all but impossible. The internet (free dispersal of information) is killing the church.

I've never heard of anyone saying George Washington or Thomas Jefferson were "bad" men (unless you consider the likelihood that Jefferson had children with one of his slaves as being a bad thing).

[cwarrenid]

Whitewashing history. This against the people who spend funds to dig up the names of our "ancestors" to provide a second chance! What is ironic about your statement concerning revisionist history is the Book of Mormon itself. Without it, we would have remained in darkness concerning the true state of affairs from biblical history. Martin Harris's wife made off with the book of Lehi, while many others tried to destroy the book before it could be published. How's that for quelling free speech!

[NavajoJoe66]

What do baptisms for the dead have to do with the fact that the church whitewashes its history?

As for your claim that were it not for the Book of Mormon, we would have "remained in darkness", that is obviously from a Mormon perspective (every other religion would beg to differ, I'm sure, if not accuse you of being in "darkness" yourself).

Aside from the BoM being an obvious hoax, I suppose I'd have to buy into the whole Judeo-Christian thing, which stems from nothing but myth, in itself.

[cwarrenid]

Most if not all history is diluted with time. Look at the Kennedy assassination. On the BofM, most people do not read it. They are afraid of it! It might turn them into a Mormon.

The fact that your here at a conference talk means you like to hang around the debate.

NavajoJoe66 Phases

1 phase - Member of the church

2 phase - Quasi member (knows its still true, but simply cannot live it)

3 phase - Not a member and tells others to not join

When did you hit phase 3 & how long did it take?

[NavajoJoe66]

What about the Kennedy assassination is diluted? Last I checked, Kennedy was still killed by Oswald.

Most people don't read the Book of Mormon because they've heard that it's a glaring anachronism in ancient American history and a ridiculously obvious hoax.

[NavajoJoe66]

Congratulations on subscribing to the dumbest, most non-critical Borg-like excuse Mormons can come up with for why people leave the church ("you can't live the standards?" LOL). I would suggest you look up "Why people leave the LDS church" here on Youtube.

Navajojoe66 phases:

1. True blue believer.

2. Reads the Bible cover to cover, is abhorred by what he reads (Moses killing women and children??)

3. Learns about anthropology and science, concludes the church is just a religion like any other.

[cwarrenid]

Anachronistic! I have seen the ancient history of most civilizations rewritten in my 45 years on this earth. It changes every decade based on the newest dig. I do not want to trash you, just understand you. I am assuming that your mission went well and you spoke with some authority about your believes then. Where did you go? How did you feel as you spoke about the gospel? When did you feel the church had no more to offer you? If I had been baptized by you back then, is it not valid?

[NavajoJoe66]

The problem is that there is no archaeological, biological or linguistic evidence to support the, yes, highly anachronistic civilizations the BoM describes.

I did serve an honorable mission, and fully believed the message I spread. I have since concluded that the church is not what it claims to be (education can do wonderful things).

Pretty sure the validity of a priesthood ordinance is not contingent on the future beliefs of its practitioner.

[cwarrenid]

The problem is that there is no archaeological, biological or linguistic evidence to support the, yes, highly anachronistic civilizations the BoM describes.

Try this site....

[NavajoJoe66]

You can't post links on Youtube. But if you're trying to send me a link to FARMS, FAIR or anthing related to John Sorenson or Hugh Nibley, I am already familiar with it. Many of us who end up leaving the church have looked to Mormon apologetics for answers. Unfortunately their "evidence" and arguments are sorely lacking.

[cwarrenid]

Wow...that was fast. On youtube, look up the keyword "Evidences for The Book of Mormon". Nothing that will shake your faith one way or another, but nice video documentation on people who are subject matter experts in many of your previously mentioned fields of study.

Religion is a lot like stocks (forgive the flippant nature of such a sacred subject). By the time everyone is scientifically convinced it is a sure thing, the moment to invest is past.

[NavajoJoe66]

Are you referring to the fairlds videos of Brant Gardner?

"Nothing that will shake your faith one way or another"? Science isn't a matter of faith. It is a process of observation based on empirical evidence. So, aren't you basically saying "nothing you'll find very convincing?"

As I said, I'm well familiar with the sort of "evidence" Mormon apologists present and it utterly fails under responsible academic examination. There is a reason papers on BoM archaeology are not peer-reviewed.

[cwarrenid]

Ahhh....Peer-reviewed. That conjures up days of Doctorate work.

I did not mean to offer you a video sequence that would have lacked any peer review, only to state that many people are actively pursuing what you claimed to be searching for........evidence. If you wait for a peer-reviewed mantle to be placed on this religion or on BYU in particular, you will be waiting awhile.

In many instances, the Lord chooses the humble, provincial vessel to carry out His work. I wonder why?

[NavajoJoe66]

I wasn't referring to the video lacking peer-review. I was referring to the academic credibility of BoM archaeology as a whole.

The fact that Mormon archaeologists do not submit their work on "BoM archaeology" to peer-review is more than telling. It underscores how tenuous their position really is.

I guess when it comes to the Lord, credible evidence and any semblance of reason is asking too much.

[cwarrenid]

Much like with Laman and Lemuel in the BofM. An angel can appear and tell you what to do. In fact, the Lord can Himself offer to you his commandments and principles. In the end, if you are not willing to submit to the most ardent, empirical, earth shattering being to ever be born, you will not be convinced by anyone. In the end, you must know beyond empirical proof. It is the language of the spirit.

[NavajoJoe66]

So you disregard the importance of empirical evidence, and use a fictional story to prove a point? (Sorry but even if Laman and Lemuel did exist, their experiences have absolutely nothing to do with me).

Where is this "ardent, empirical, earth shattering" evidence you speak of? All I see are stories in a book. Not very compelling. If that's the sort of "evidence" I based my beliefs on, I might as well believe in Zeus, Odin, Anubis, etc.

[cwarrenid]

Not disregard, but realize that it is not always going to work. For example, If your mother had passed, I would ask you if you loved her. Your answer would be yes. I would then say, prove it!

[NavajoJoe66]

Easy. I would prove it by speaking at her funeral and expressing it in words, by visiting her grave with flowers, and by remembering her and talking about her with others. These are all things that can be observed and measured by both myself and others, aka evidence.

Sure, I may be lying. But these things still count as ***evidence*** that suggest I do in fact love my mother. Unfortunately there is no credible evidence to support the sort of highly advanced civilizations described in the BoM.

[cwarrenid]

The interesting thing about our logic is that even if the BofM is proven true......You are still free to not follow it. I for one do not believe the book could have been written in 1827 by a man or two men. Too many things that were not known at that time. But evidence does not make someone follow.

There are many things in life that are true but we still do not follow (smoking, fatty foods, drugs, etc).

So there are two roads to cross.....is it true...and will I choose to follow.

[NavajoJoe66]

Yeah, well.. even if the Koran is proven to be true, you are still free to not follow it. Not sure I'm seeing your point here.

Fatty foods, smoking, etc. we know are bad because we can measure their effects.

There is nothing in the BoM that was unknown in the time period it was written. If anything can be said about the BoM, it is a distinctly 19th-century product of American Protestantism (e.g. the idea that Indians are a lost tribe of Israel was a common supposition at the time).

[cwarrenid]

Evidence is used by many as an initial roadblock or reflex. I am talking mainly about items of the spirit. Although smoking has much evidence, people still do not follow it.

I talk of those who scream for evidence....then later receive it. After receiving it (evidence), they shy away from the tenets the evidence suggested.

The Lord could appear, tell you what you need to know, and then fade into the ether. You would then be educated but not changed. What good is one without the other.

[NavajoJoe66]

There is a difference between knowing something to be true (e.g. smoking is harmful) and disregarding it, and not believing something simply because there is no evidence to support it. (Do you believe in UFOs? Why not?).

If the Lord appeared to me, I would be the first to acknowledge that he in fact exists. But I would not expect others to take my word for it; expecting anyone to believe my claim without supporting evidence would be unreasonable.

[cwarrenid]

If now you believe in the Lord (by seeing him), you claim you would not "expect others to take your word for it". Furthermore, you would not try to convince them without evidence.

On the other hand, if someone else believes in the Lord, why then try to convince them otherwise? By seeing the Lord, they have no direct evidence and are unable to convince you.

My point is, people try to convert the believer into disbelief. If the believers evidence is not empirical, why waste your time?

[cwarrenid]

It is the struggle to ardently prove something wrong that sticks with me. Why? I would think that there are many causes that you are converted to that would prove more appetizing and be a better place to spend your energies.

I see this with republicans and democrats ad nauseum. To me, it is just another form of reverse proselyting. Replacing a spiritual God with an empirical One. In the end, you will find they are both One in the same.

[NavajoJoe66]

I'm not the one trying to prove something. If anyone is trying to "prove" something it is Jeffrey Holland here.

I'm simply responding to this claim that the Book of Mormon is "true" (i.e. a historical record), when it is painfully obvious to any objective observer that it is not. There is no evidence to support the highly anachronistic (e.g. domesticated Old World animals, steel, the wheel, highly literate) civilizations it describes.

[NavajoJoe66]

Also I should point out that belief in falsehoods often results in unwanted costs to others in society. Witness the LDS church's extensive involvement in CA's Proposition 8.

When false beliefs cause tangible damage to those who do not even share them, it is time to start opposing them.

Wouldn't you agree? If the LDS church (or, Christianity as a whole) isn't true, wouldn't it be morally right to oppose it?

[cwarrenid]

When gay marriage effects the things my children are taught in school, John has 2 Dads, then yes, I believe in free speech and the democratic process. I do not believe that traditional marriage should change...1 man 1 woman.

Interesting how the world has changed. Mormons were once publicly flogged and denied statehood for polygamy, but gays are now welcomed by the media and hollywood.

They were and are peculiar practices, but why the difference?

[NavajoJoe66]

Yes, heaven forbid we encourage our children to be tolerant of others who are different from us.

Traditional marriage isn't changing. Men and women can still get married. Why are you buying into the propaganda?

I agree that it is ironic that Mormons are lecturing anyone about "traditional marriage" in light of their polygamous past. Mormon leaders once taught that monogamy was evil and would lead to the downfall of society, LOL.

[WhisperwindPancake]

@NavajoJoe66

Ahem... "Navajo Joe", each one has their own belief. To keep peace, should we not keep to our own? Do not oppose and attempt to offend others, you fool!

[NavajoJoe66]

@WhisperwindPancake

Yes, I absolutely agree that religious beliefs should be kept to oneself. However that isn't what you people are doing. Your beliefs inform your actions, resulting in things like Prop 8 which affect people who do not even share your beliefs.

And I would suggest you take the advice of the very person you profess to believe in, Jesus, who said "Whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be in danger of hellfire" (Matthew 5:22).

[WhisperwindPancake]

@NavajoJoe66

Do you not do the same by acting prejudice?

I admit I should not have said that. I have now repented.

I am not against gay marriage, I believe others have their rights to law.

I'd like to point out that the mormon center of the world is in UTAH. Not California. Although, Utah isn't the best place in the world, I'll give you that.

[NavajoJoe66]

Prejudiced against what? Ignorance? Is there something wrong with that?

Glad you recognize that Utah is the Mormon center of the world, not California. Too bad the church didn't see it that way.

[WhisperwindPancake]

@NavajoJoe66

Ignorance? care to explain you theory?

All I know is that I believe my religion is right.

There is nothing wrong with spreading it.

Does "do not judge quickly" mean anything to you?

[NavajoJoe66]

Beliefs can still be false. You might want to look into your beliefs a little more critically. Even if they're beliefs you cherish dearly, that doesn't make them true.

And if it is not true, then there IS something wrong with spreading it. Spreading false or unsubstantiated information is basically polluting the knowledge of mankind and does no one any good.

[NavajoJoe66]

Oh, sure. Your "repentance" sounds SO sincere. It must be nice to act like a jerk, then "repent" and feel good about yourself.

I mean it's only Jesus himself, the very guy whose church you claim to be a part of, who said "Who ever shall say, 'You fool', shall be in danger of hellfire." This is coming from the guy you profess to follow. Show a little respect. Act like a Christian for once, instead of being such a dipshit.

[WhisperwindPancake]

I made a mistake. I am NOT one of those ignorant people who do wrong and keep repenting.  I recognized that what I did was wrong, I prayed and asked for forgiveness. Besides, I'm not typing swearwords. And you tell me to show respect? Look at yourself! You're the one accusing all Mormons of things we didn't do! I act like a Christian. I'm defending my beliefs against people who think we are so horrible when we are not. And about that scripture, I've never even heard it before.

[NavajoJoe66]

I wasn't asking you to respect me. I was pointing out that you should respect the words of Jesus. You know, the guy you profess to follow.

I haven't accused Mormons of anything they didn't do.

[NavajoJoe66]

In the same way that I wouldn't be surprised if no one believed me if I'd said that I've seen Bigfoot. (Hence the importance of evidence).

Don't get me wrong. You can believe whatever sorts of hairbrained nonsense you want, I don't have a problem with that. But don't expect to be taken seriously when you make assertions that are unsupported by evidence (and particularly when all available evidence contradicts your assertions).

[cwarrenid]

Reminds me of doubting Thomas. He believed after seeing. How much more evidence would he need the next time his sense of skepticism grew? A fingerprint. DNA would surely follow.

The plot thickens with the increasing level of evidence that tends to be required just to BELIEVE! It is a never ending assortment of science that would truly boggle the mind.

[cwarrenid]

Like wine, what was once scientifically irrefutable becomes refutable with age. And around we go! Ever learning, and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

[NavajoJoe66]

Just because our body of scientific knowledge grows doesn't mean that past discoveries are irrelevant, or that we can't trust in the priciples of science. Science expands our understanding and is the best method we have for determining the truth of something. Why? Because it is based on empirical evidence and observation.

There are good and bad reasons for believing something. Evidence is the best reason for believing something. Revelation and authority are poor reasons to believe anything.

[cwarrenid]

It is a blend, never one without the other. Science needs God and God needs Science. I would invite you to read biographies on the greatest scientist in the world. After doing this, I came to a startling conclusion. Most of these men and women, before the crucial aha moment, were dealt an unscientific gift; usually a dream or vision. This gift from the Holy Ghost which testifies of all truth (science included), was used to finalize the discovery.

Even Einstein believed in a Creator.

[NavajoJoe66]

Science is concerned with evidence and testable observations. There is nothing in the sciences that requires God to explain anything.

I have read biographies of many scientists. Many of them clashed with the established religion of the day. Those who were religious were so only because everyone was religious at that time, and to not be religious carried with it damaging consequences to career and social standing.

Einstein believed in Spinoza's god, not a personal god.

[NavajoJoe66]

It's funny to me that Jesus would chide Thomas for his perfectly natural and healthy skepticism. Particularly when he'd already appeared to the other disciples (presumably to "prove" that he still lived).

Not sure why you keep insisting that skeptics require increasing amounts of evidence in order to believe anything. ANY evidence would suffice.

[cwarrenid]

The main issue I have with science is that it has a gaping hole in the middle when it comes to morality. Everything is relative, agnostic.

Great societies collapse from within not from their ability to invent but from their inability to keep God alive. He becomes so ethereal that he disappears all together. Without void or form. As martin luther described when dealing with Catholicism, They have taken my God away from me by making him so mystical (paraphrase).

[NavajoJoe66]

Morality is simply a social code of conduct. Science **does** in fact address it, look it up on Wikipedia for an introduction to scientific perspectives. Religion does not have a monopoly on morality. (Philosophy too is concerned with morality).

Please provide an example of a society that has "collapsed" due to their lack of "faith" in their given deity.

[armiesofheleman]

continue what you are figthing for.. keep the faith! you great!

[armiesofheleman]

yes you have a lot of knowledge..

you were raised to the church and served on a mission..

but your faith doesn't work desame as your wisdom.

never forget why you serve, and what your purpose is!

[NavajoJoe66]

Faith and wisdom are polar opposites.

[armiesofheleman]

therefore how would you proove that this book is not true? if the bible would just satisfies the need of everyone, this world would not be blinded in any other beliefs.

The Lord Jesus Christ personally declare that he will continue to reveal his words..

with the power of the book of mormon and the holy ghost, i personally testify... this is true!

[NavajoJoe66]

There are numerous ways to know the Book of Mormon is not true. To begin with, there is no evidence of the civilizations it describes.

It is full of historical anachronisms (things that shouldn't be there, such as horses, steel, and the wheel).

And much of it is plagiarized from the Bible, mistranslations from the King James version and all.

Plus other issues like Joseph Smith claiming he translated his "Book of Abraham" from Egyptian papyrus (Egyptologists say otherwise).

[WhisperwindPancake]

Actually, it has not been proven to be false. It IS true. How do you know it is not? Or can you not give an answer?

[NavajoJoe66]

The Book of Mormon is not considered by any credible authority to be an actual historical document. You might want to think about that.

[NavajoJoe66]

We know the Book of Mormon is NOT true because of the many anachronisms within it, as well as Joseph Smith's perpetuation of the same mistranslations and errors committed by the King James translators, and not to mention that there is no physical evidence to support the kind of civilizations it describes.

But the kicker is that was written (badly) in 17th century King James English. How do people not see through this?

Watch the video "Joseph Smith's language problems" to get an idea.

[EfrajimOilcan]

The Tanners, really?.....so 4 generations later she decided that all her forefathers (Brigham Youngs) work was untrue based on the 'idea' that these 2 teachings just didn't work in the modern era. That pretty much counts for Moses too then and God Himself who handed Moses the law....should we now reject them both as God and Prophet because the Law of Moses doesn't quite 'gel' with our society today? NO, God Speaks not Speaketh. God IS not Was.

[bossendenwoodconvict]

For the truth about mormonism please read "Mormonism Shadow or Reality" by Jerald and Sandra Tanner. Sandra realised her great great grandfather, Brigham Young, was not a prophet when she read his sermons on blood atonement and the blacks. She and her husband led thousands from the church.

[starshiptrouter]

"The scriptures are not the ultimate source of knowledge for latter day saints. They are manifestations of the ultimate source. The ultimate source of knowledge and authority for a latter day saint is the living God." -J.Holland

That is what it is about for me. God lives and we can work directly with him.

[AddisonDay]

Hilland gets me pumped! (guys, we appreciate the bearing of testimonies, but I think it's a little much to do it on YouTube? Thanks)

[qageekbr]

That's right. Ha. Save it for next first Sunday.

[belpickles]

"The Bible does not make a person a Christian." Why did he say that? Who the heck believes that?

[qageekbr]

This guy is so scary man. To start off he looks like a bulldog. These guys are so full of themselves, a conference is the ultimate showdown for them. The Book of Mormon still stands only on the mind of blindly obeying people. It has no place in history, geography, linguistics, anthropology, genetics, metallurgy, or any other field. It has failed every test. Besides it was more then 60% directly quoted verbatim from the Bible.

[MrNirom]

Yes.. lets us always start off a comment by belittling the person being talked about. Personal attack is always a good way of bringing people down to your level. Besides.. It is so obvious you don't know what you are talking about. 60%?? This is a lie which makes you a liar. Once a liar always a liar. No?

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

gag.: "It has no place in history," Jesus world trek is historical. You Tube: Christ As Cosmic Cruiser.

"linguistics,"? Don't know that English is deformed, reformed Egyptian? Don't know about color symbolism, ritualistic garment types?

"metallurgy,"? Must not know about ancient weapons, metallic plates & stone boxes found in different areas of the world. Ancient mines & evidence for smelting in Ancient America.

Don't know about Mayan hand grasping calender symbols that match up with BOM?

[beachlady78]

Look at the information about the cultures, religions, geography, and languages of the Aztecs, Toltecs, Mayas, Incas, Zapotecs, and many others.

WHERE is the society of millions of people who had massive wars, huge cities, very distinctive geography and metalurgy, etc? Where is the information? These facts?

If the lamanites and nephites existed their existence would have left a huge impact, and BoM archaeologists would have SOMETHING to point to, rather than relying on false stories!

[MrNirom]

Ah yes.. lets see what you could do with the task of having a piece of land being described to you and then you go find it on this big ole globe. As more time passes.. the pieces will come together. It takes much digging to find places that are hidden. What if the Book of Mormon geography was not in Meso.. but somewhere else? Maybe Malay. If the lands are found to match the book.. will you be a believer then? Is that what it will take? or will you need more?

[rmullin0715]

This why I love Mormons! They back up doctrine with history and fact!

[presidentoftulsa]

This man is simply stating his belief in the Bible and its never ending value, and he is also stating that man does not dictate what God can and will do. If He says he has more for us than who are we to say no? If you don't believe this then you clearly do not understand the nature of our Father-in-Heaven, and you need to study and pray with an open heart and mind.

[Catholicism19]

Jospeh Smith is a liar

[Nobusan21]

This testimony makes me tremble. WOW

[theTruthNotLies]

CHRISTIANS are the followers of the teachings of CHRIST..MORMONS are followers of the teaching of JOSEPH SMITH..they are SMITHIANS not CHRISTIANS.

[Rammiumptum]

If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that Mormons umm.....dont follow the teachings of Joseph Smith, did you not listen to what this Apostle God said?

[Rammiumptum]

We follow the Prophet Joseph Smiths teachings, but Joseph Smith didnt just teach something, he taught it because he was instructed by god. Joseph Smith wasnt leading the Mormons to him, he was leading the Mormons closer to God through Christ. Mormons are christians, we love Christ, we love the teachings of christ in the bible. We follow the teachings of christ in the bible. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that.

[focuskrew23]

yeah baby!!! the church is true!!! whoooo!!!!

Focus krew!!! houston tx!!!!