One of the rules of pointing out the obvious entails NOT smashing printed materials into the faces of the people being informed as Maryland (to Gen. Lee) was not exactly Laos (to Richard Nixon) in relation to North Vietnam nor reflective of the way Northern whites habitually sacrificed themselves for negroes throughout the 1860's on orders from Lincoln the melancholic.
If I had to choose between two sets of philosophies, I would choose Rand's over Hitchens's. Hitchens hits hard on the current issues, but Rand offered a nicely universal/comprehensive message.
Media-darling Christ' Hitchens, who documented his anal-sadistic practices with men in print, was likely a key member of the Geo. H.W. Bush (& family) pederasty ring. Are not men judged by the company they keep?
David Frum is a Canadian shill for the Republican party. He tells out right lies about our Canadian health care system for his own selfish ideological egotistical reasons.My sister was diagonised 2 years ago with a very large brain tumor.THe diagonsis was made on a Saturday.She was operated on a Sunday and was home by Wednesday the day before Christmas and has made a full recovery. Mr. Frum please give up your Canadian citizenship and move to Texas.
@gspaulsson said "where else would Hitchens or Kennedy go?"
They both had more than enough money to go anywhere in the world. But they didn't jet to London or Toronto, two of the places they publicly declare as having superior healthcare to the USA. They beelined it to Duke and MD Anderson. Danny Williams is a multi-millionaire who got caught sneaking out of Newfoundland for care and you throw out the ad hominem "you are OK with hurting the poor" nonsense. Yes tool of the day you are.
@cdsilber The U.S. is a country of extremes - the world's best universities, a sub-par public education system. Elite medicine for the elite, an expensive mess for everyone else. Health-care facilities are in short supply everywhere; you ration them by wealth, we ration them by triage. Bottom line, in polls 87% of Canadians prefer our system to yours. The principle is the same as free access to police, fire services, courts, public roads. You do the same for people > 65, why not 4 everyone?.
Polls don't mean much. I was quite happy with the Canadian healthcare system, too, when I was young and not making much money. Now that I'm actually paying for it and have seen the issues with it, it's a different story. The point stands - if Canada is so wonderful, why did Hitchens move to the US?
@c6gunner Huh? What connection did Hitchens ever have with Canada? He moved to the U.S. from the U.K. to make a career as a pundit - despite, not because of, its health-care system, as he makes very clear. Yes, we have problems - everyone does - and they should be rationally addressed. But as the polls clearly show, switching to a U.S.-style system is a non-starter, except for a small minority of ideologues like you.
Exactly; he chose the US. Thanks for at least being honest on that point. Your psychic powers must be misfiring since you're attributing beliefs to me which I've never voiced or held, and you continue to hang on to the polls as if they were some sort of religious sacrament, but at least I can give you credit on the one point.
@c6gunner Hitchens moved to the U.S. not as a vote of approval, but to change things. Including the health care system, which in his opinion sucked. Watch the video again: he is quite clear on that. The poll I cited says that 87% of Canadians would not swap our system for the U.S. one. That is called empirical evidence, not a "religious sacrament". You imply that adopting the U.S. system would fix the "issues" with ours; few Canadians agree. I don't, having heard all the arguments.
@c6gunner when you descend to name-calling and ridicule, you show that you are running on empty. I can't post links here, but I got the 87% number off the Queen's University website (PDF, author Stuart Soroka (2007)). The CTV News website has a 2009 story wherein: "The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey suggests 82 per cent of Canadians believe our system is better than U.S. health care". All polls are roughly in that range. You are in a small minority, so suck it up..
@gspaulsson Another instructive poll, also from 2009 (a lot of interest then because of the Obamacare debate) by Ipsos poll, 'U.S. vs. Canadian Healthcare: Poll Compares Citizens’ Experience as Patients'. Basically, patient satisfaction is about the same, though the U.S. system is twice as expensive. Canadians acknowledge problems with our system, but Soroka finds attitudes more positive than in previous polls, so people feel tha tthings are moving in the right direction.
@gspaulsson My take on it is that our problems stem from three sources: funding cuts to med schools in the 90s in the name of balancing the budget; the CMA's resistance to accrediting immigrant doctors who would fill the gap; and the provinces have fragmented the system by grabbing more and more control. IMHO, we need a constitutional amendment to transfer health-care to the federal government, though Harper, playing to his Alberta consituency, is moving in the opposite direction.
@gspaulsson I live in a small town in eastern Canada. In the first period of a hockey game I was kicked behind my goalie pad and received a very deep wound, went to the hospital at the 5 minute mark in the first and saw the last 2 minutes of the game with 12 blue twist ties in my leg. Also broke my hand in a game requiring surgery. Had the operation 2 days later. My father went into kidney failure, airlifted, dialysis (3 hours) cured. (3 months). Our system is fine. and it's free.
@cdsilber I think they are referring to the system as a whole being better for the average person in the country. There's no doubt that privately run hospitals will provide fantastic services for those who can afford them.
I was saddened to read of Hitchens' early death, but the irony is when his own life was on the line he went to M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX, USA.
This is not inconsistent with the likes of Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams who snuck out to Miami for heart surgery, Ted Kennedy who argued for the superiority of Canadian and British healthcare only to get his cancer treatment at Duke, and thousands of politicians and wealthy from Europe who fly to the USA for their medicine.
@cdsilber where else would Hitchens or Kennedy go? They were U.S. citizens and residents, not covered in Canada. Meanwhile, many Americans go to Thailand for cheap surgery, or do without. We don't figure that whether you live or die should depend on how much money you have. If you do have money, of course you can buy whatever you want, but somewhere else. Danny Williams was welcome to go tie up U.S. medical resources at the expense of poor Americans, because you guys seem to be OK with that.
@hawkmoon4 I would never live or work in the U.S, exactly because of your healthcare system. You spend more in taxes to support Medicare, Medicaid, the V.A. etc etc than we do on our entire system, and THEN you still have to go and get private coverage. We live longer than you do, and our health-care outcomes are at least as good as yours. Ideologues like Frum go to the U.S.; back home, even the conservative government we have now doesn't dare touch healthcare. It's that popular.
@gspaulsson the funny thing is, once we reach 65yo our healthcare system is as good as anyone's.Yeah, we have a long way to go to fix our heath care in the US but it's pretty nice where I live ... ; )
@hawkmoon4 yes, the only real difference between the U.S. system and the Canadian one is that you get Medicare starting at 65 (when it starts getting expensive) and we get it all our lives. The great virtue of the system (before the provinces started hacking away at it for their own selfish reasons) was its simplicity: you saw your doctor (any doctor you liked); he billed the government; you paid your taxes. Minimum bureaucracy, no expensive malpractice suits, no "defensive medicine".
@Andrewh313 Watch the 20/20 special called Sick in America Whose Body is It. Trust me, everything you thought about both the Canadian and British healthcare system is wrong. They even interview an actual Canadian docotor. Also, the problem I have with socialists and critics of capitalism is that they "insist" that capitalism needs to be replaced. Granted it needs to be fixed but replacing it is taking it a step too far.
That guy who called Mr. Hitchens is probably the most stupidest man I have ever heard talk. He uses all these big words like "corporations", "capitalism", and "fascism" but he has no idea what he's talking about. Corporations like Wal-Mart and McDonalds do not exist because they are "fascists" they exist because the consumers (the people) shop there and want them. Corporate greed is not the driving force of corporations it's the demand of the consumer!
If you would take perhaps a weekend of your life and invest it into reading some of the modern criticisms of capitalism, I can assure you that any subsequent youtube comments you make on the issue will be much less uninformed.
@cnt66 Just because the book is a work of fiction doesn't mean the idea isn't. George Orwell's 1984, Eric Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front, Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, all of those books are works of fiction.
@WilhelmDrake The Canadian socialized healthcare system is a failure. My grandma had a nephew who worked as a truck driver and he was driving in Canada. When he stopped at a cafe on the way, he had a heart attack and they took him to the hospital. Because of the delays and waiting periods in the Canadian socialized healthcare system, they couldn't treat him right away and by the time they did treat him, the heart attack had disabled him to the point where he couldn't work and he lost his job.
What a marvelously compelling use of anecdotal evidence. Surely everyone else here sees the logic in condemning an entire social system because you heard of one case where it failed. Surely that one case proves that the system should be dismantled.
Now, try suggesting to Canadians that they adopt our system, and watch them riot.
What i love about the Christian Right in America is how utterly Ignorant and stupid they are, most of them believe in Jesus. Now Jesus Hated the whole concept of selfishness, when a rich man asked him what he could do too praise jesus Jesus said give all your money to the poor. Now these dumbass are basicly worshipping a guy who they would hate if they met him in person. Thats why i say the American Rights opinion shouldnt even be consider when you are that hypocritical
National healthcare not economically sound? Despite the fact the NHS costs half the American system does adjusted for population size and provides better quality care? Laughable twaddle.
National Health Care is simply not an economically sound idea in the long run. The question is not Canada healthcare versus US healthcare. The question should be free-market development versus government subsidized insolvency.
I live in Canada and suffer from a chronic, though not deadly, illness and while I have had to wait longer for tests and to see specialists but when someone needs emergency assistance they get it, for the rest of us we can wait to let the needier go first.
I would never want to live under the US health care system which puts people in debt for surviving and allows the poor to die. This is pure evil and I hope things change for my neighbors to the South; living is a right, not a privilege
@mcnairone actually according to your constitution (assuming USdness on your part) it is the gov's job. Article 1, Section 8 - mayhap you should read your own constitution sometime?
You're not my friend, and you are a child in the light of my intellect. Principle works, ground up. For one individual to use force against another except for defense is evil, period. I don't care about your country, I'm sure it's sinking in debt and fake money like the rest, but my country was not founded on those "principles". I know Marx, because I've read Marx. I don't live within stereotypes, like you, I do the work and the math, which is why I'm always right. run along
Your "analysis" is childish, but you're not alone. "Conservative" is a term with many conflicting meanings, like "faith". If one is conservative, one must be conserving something. Properly, conservatism would be about the conservation of the principles of the founding of the United States. Most "conservatives" don't understand them any more than liberals, but I do- so humanity is fortunately in that regard. To know everything fully, just watch my gift of a lecture on my chan.
@TennisAnnalyst You're full of shit- I'm the greatest political mind on the planet, and it's not even close. I wrote a paragraph-by-paragraph rebuttal of the commie manifesto available on my website- thebrazenhubris. Marx is one evil, disgusting bastard who contradicts his own BS from one sentence to the next. I'll piss on his grave next chance I get. You can also watch my lecture on my youtube channel if you want to learn, but I doubt you do, because Marx is really antiknowledge.
@TennisAnnalyst You're full of shit- I'm the greatest political mind on the planet, and it's not even close. I wrote a paragraph-by-paragraph rebuttal of the commie manifesto available on my website- thebrazenhubris d com. Marx is one evil, disgusting bastard who contradicts his own BS from one sentence to the next. I'll piss on his grave next chance I get. You can also watch my lecture on my youtube channel if you want to learn, but I doubt you do, because Marx is really antiknowledge.
@TennisAnnalyst That is what i meant, liberalism is about the individual being sacrificed for the sake of society. i.e. the 1% should be taxed greatly to help the 99%. also the tea party is not libertarian, its conservative, fuck glen geck.
Some have asked that I view yvranx's reply to my brilliant comment. It doesn't really deserve a reply, but here it is: First it's a strawman argument, and then it begs the question. Fraud or force in any form is not capitalism, but another example of a rights violation. No tyranny begins with the tyrant saying he wants to be a tyrant, that's just what happens after the fact. As with solynrda- the money disappears into evil pockets, and all the “good” that was to happen disappears too. Marx Sucks
Madison was right, and so was Rand. The first object of government is the protection fo the different and unequal faculties of acquireing property. The government exists solely to prevent individual "A" from being forced to be generous to individual "B". It is that freedome that allows individual "A" to control the property necessary to have an opportunity to be generous to individual "B". No one has a right to the actions of another, as that already has a name: "Slavery".
@brazenhubris Nice idea. In reality though, A would use his property to prevent B from acquiring his own. B would need a government to prevent that. So A buys the government, too.
You aren't ideologically consistent from post to post. On one hand you say it is "bullshit" that the government uses your tax money to help people; here's one of your quotes: "The Government has NO FUCKING RIGHT to force me to help people."
But in the next post you complain about the closing of state hospitals. Who do you think paid for those hospitals? Maybe you don't think it's so bad because it is state not federal but those state hospitals got a lot of federal funds.
"Fucks like you abolished the State Hospitals. Fuck you, and fuck your liberal friends."
...While it was liberal groups like the ACLU the fought the forced institutionalization of all but the most handicapped mental patients, the reason they closed state hospitals was to save money. The person most responsible for that was Reagan, he did it as president and as governor in California. They couldn't make money off the feebs so they tossed 'em out on the street.
Neither is half the stuff we need the government to do, yet it still needs to be done. The Constitution is a living document, not a static one. If you want to return to the 1780s, please do it somewhere else.
Did you not not know, when you wrote this 3 months ago, that Ayn Rand was a philosopher who actively encouraged people to adopt the principles of which she wrote? Did you not know that?
I'm horrified that at least twelve other people didn't know that either.
@cnt66 Her "fiction" is the same style of fiction as George Orwell's, it has a deeply rooted political message, albeit with very different messages. Rand may have used fiction as it was her preferred genre, this doesn't change the fact that she wanted to inculcate others with objectivism
@cnt66 Funny how the mediums she wrote about, when practised turned a fairly poor country into one of the richest and most prosperous in the world in around 150 years.
@mcnairone The government does have this right. You gave it that right as citizens of your country. If you disagree with the democratically decided ideal to help others, you can simply leave.
@felixmeister - No, it doesn't. Governments don't have rights, individuals have rights, and the government only exists to protect them, i.e. the government exists to protect indviduals from sniviling weasle parasytic whiners. Democracy is what your hairy teet Marx is about. A boot in the ass of the plunderers is what the Constitution is about. You'll know the difference one day.
@brazenhubris in actuality, nothing and no-one has 'rights' per-se. We have privileges & restrictions that are given & placed upon us in a mutually agreed (even if that agreement is by accepting subjugation & not fighting/dying for it) forum. The people gave the government certain rights & emplaced certain restrictions, this is what democracy is all about. The plunderers were given carte blanche when corporate entities were given the same privileges as people but without the same restrictions.
@mcnairone Well too late genius! That's what taxes are for! Paying for things that EVERYONE needs and uses. *I* wish that people's taxes didn't contribute towards services that ignorant, narcissistic, selfish individuals like yourself get benefits from. How bout you go live on a remote island somewhere so I don't have to pay taxes that help you in numerous ways and you don't have to have anyone's help or be forced to help anyone. We both win.
@mcnairone I live in Australia where we have free Public Healthcare and education. All contribute in their tax towards these services and a huge proportion of the population benefits and moves forward thanks to that support system. I don't give a toss about your 'liberal' this, 'left-wing' that, American drama. I just think people should help each other. If random hostility and swearing is the upper reach of your ability to comment, then frankly I'm done bothering with you.
Everyone definitely DOES get care in Canada. In Canada, it CAN take a long time to get an MRI because they're BUSY, but in the U.S. there are technicians sitting with their feet up because many people are DENIED the expensive scans by an insurance company.
@mcnairone Most 'idle beggars' are people with some kind of disability - usually learning and other mental problems.
Your attitude is disturbing. I'm fairly sure that if fate put you in the shoes of some of those 'idle beggars' you might find you'd wish society gave more of a damn, since individuals like you certainly don't.
But whatever dude. Every man for himself right? Yeah, I'm sure humanity got to this point of evolution with everyone thinking that way. My mistake.
"Yeah, I'm sure humanity got to this point of evolution with everyone thinking that way. My mistake."
...Not to nitpick but people who complain about their money being "stolen by the government and given to idle beggars" generally believe that the Earth was created in its present form 6,000 years ago.
The irony is they will tell you you are going to hell unless you accept Jesus Christ....except that part where Jesus told his followers to give all their money to the poor.
David Frum is absolutely right, I have a recurring dislocated shoulder and I was put on a wait list for a year for My MRI in Canada. The U.S. is much better for those types of things.
"I have a recurring dislocated shoulder and I was put on a wait list for a year for My MRI in Canada. The U.S. is much better for those types of things."
...Just so long as the insurance company doesn't decide your shoulder is fine and you don't need an MRI. Or you use your insurance too much and they decide they don't want to cover you anymore and "accidentally" drop your coverage. You're free to sign-up again but now you've got a pre-existing condition.
@cabgt Other nations manage to provide healthcare for their people that doesn't simultaneously bankrupt the individual who needs it or put them into decades of debt. If Hitchins is "economically stupid", then the people running the finances in America must function on a single braincell. Socialist is not a dirty word. Know why? America is made up of millions of people. PEOPLE, sir. Therefore, acting with social conscience is a moral imperative. You can't remove society from the economics
@Skandronicus Individuals are being bankrupt as a result of govt interventions (the U.S. is a far cry from free market healthcare). Australia's healthcare system is terrible (understatement) and will one day play a role in bankrupting the country! Yes, those running U.S. finances are stupid or willfully ingnorant. Yes, society is made up of INDIVIDUALS with natural rights. These rights should not be breached. So not only is there an economic point, but the moral/ethical argument at hand.
@cabgt Pardon? Australia's healthcare system is terrible? Excuse me? That must be why the country ranks so high on the HDI then. I don't know if you are someone that lives there that thinks you are 'doing it tough' because you have to wait three months to have elective surgery, or you are someone that lives elsewhere that assumes Australia is a technological backwater but I am afraid you are very much incorrect and I would ask that you cite an example of a better healthcare system
Interesting that Hitchens compares the U.S. system to Britain and Frum to Canada, given that both were emigres from those respective countries to the U.S.
Its funny. Here in Australia, there isn't even a mention of the word socialism (it doesn't seem to be very popular here), yet we have a reasonably strong labor sector, a quality welfare state and universal health care for all. It works bitches.
I forgot to turn my volume down and it scared my cat who then jumped 6 ft into the air landing on my coffee cup tipping it over and spilling the burning shit into my lap,scorching my balls, when I ran into the bathroom I tripped on a towel and damn near broke my back!!! The cat still has not been found! It knows I'm pissed. Fucking asshole!!!
@zieben64 yeah socialist communist nazi right? it's amusing how americans like to chant those terms without even understanding them. (hence the phrase stupid americans)
@zieben64 no you moron. communist as in socialist. euros tax the shit out the rich, nanny state, shitty socialist health care. France is HILARIOUS hmm...you can add more than I
@boydni Ok Mr. Euro, European nations aren't nanny states? Universal health care isn't socialized medicine? France is spot on when it comes to individual rights, such as the RIGHT to a movie theater on friday night?? hah...
@zieben64 .nanny states?since when is socialized medicine a bad thing?there are tens of thousands of people in america who die every year because of a lack of healthcare cover,but having the right to own a gun is more important?indivdual rights my ass.The only thing ebtter about america is freedom of speech.No country protects freedom of speech better than america.
@laudrup90 socialized medicine is a bad thing when you tell your grandma she is too old to get a kidney dialysis because she is 2 years above the cutoff date for receiving care(rationing of healthcare is inevitable). Sorry grandma, the government wants you to die now...you have the money to pay for the care? naa, you can't even pay the doctor for treatment, for if every doctor took the job with more money, there would be no doctors for the society!!
@zieben64 What a crock of conjectural bullshit. I'm British, we have socialized healthcare and no such cut off date exists. I have family members in their late 80s who have received a litany of high level medical procedures. As Hitchens said, the U.S is one of the very few industrialized countries in the world that denies its people the right to free healthcare. You expect me to believe that America and fucking South Africa are the last great bastions of rationality? Catch up.
@hippotoast Go walk off your job more, ya brit. Perhaps there is a reason why your nation still gets great service health care but then can't afford to play their public employees. If things aren't rationed, things will just get out of hand with everybody being able to top notch care, and the spending will just be out of control. I, for one ,do NOT want the government in charge of all these things, look at Greek protestors, odd things happen when your boss is your government.
@zieben64 Stop conjecturing it's making you look far more stupid than you really are, which in itself is quite the feat. We can afford to pay our public employees, our silly incumbent right wing government is just going a bit gung ho on the old austerity measures at the moment, but isn't that the case everywhere in this stagnant west? Our public sector employees on the whole still receives on average a higher per annum wage than the mean national income, which is one of the highest in Europe.
@hippotoast I can have sympothy for public employees having things cut, or whatever. But look, this is what you have to accept if your boss is the government. We need LESS government employees and MORE private sector if we don't want these things to happen, or else pay the consequence of bureaucrats dictating our benefits. And the ultimate display of this is socialized medicine, Where you need "austarity measures" because health care wasn't properly forcasted, OR you will have rationing.
@zieben64 We need austerity measures because we've just come out of a global recession and the western world has little to no economic growth whatsoever, it has NOTHING to do with healthcare over budgeting. Similar situation in Greece except that deep seated social woes (nepotism, cronyism, corruption etc.) have compounded with the recession to bring about a really nasty situation, which again is not at all to do with socialist policy.
@hippotoast Your government spends more than it takes in, bottom line(much like us in USA), and your telling me health care cost has nothing to do with that? Who caused the global recession, who hinders job growth? The government's over regulations. Think of a world with no regulations, very little taxations. Granted, you may think this is a dangerious world to live in, but imagine all the jobs...being able to start up a restaurant in your own home with no red tape would be great, yes?
@zieben64 I don't think this ideal of your fits with reality. After all, it was rampant deregulation in the 80s and 90s that lay the foundations for the recession we're barely out of. There is a direct link between Greenspan's initiatives (who is an Objectivist by the way) to dramatically lower taxes and attempt to let markets stabilize themselves and the dotcom and the 1997 Asian financial crises. You keep the markets out of check, greed and chaos unsues, that's why a mixed economy is ideal.
@hippotoast Our governments big goal, and reason for housing bubble, was that we wanted every american to own a home, regaurdless of wheather it was financially sound. This was our policy and so we manipulated the market so banks would give loans to these people, after all, the government is insurring all this right? Low and behold, its a bad idea to give people homes they can't afford...for EVERYONE. As for Greenspan, no he is not an Objectivist, although at one time he may have been
@zieben64 It appears we have encountered a problem. We both have unshakeable convictions on society and politics that are totally opposed to one another, yet evidently neither of us posses the charisma nor ability to convince each other of our world views.
@zieben64 .france is hilarious?lol oh yh better education and healthcare standards than america and it sucks?lol what a joke.Tax reductions dont make a difference fool.All your jobs went overseas and you dumbasses overconsume so much because of your feeble minded lifestyle your addicted to foriegn oil.
Christopher Hitchens has just discredited himself across the board! To have this little understanding of economics and history tells me that this guy cannot be trusted in the realm of philosophy or religion. I mean really, he just sounds smart, but when you listen to his ideas it is hard not to mentally vomit.
@lukebessey what are you talking about? He's always snarky and laconic when he answers questions; that's just his mo. This is hardly the forum for expressing philosophical ideas in depth--he's answering bloody calls on CSPAN. If you are judging a guy completely off of soundbites like this, that is more liable to induce vomiting then his alleged lack of knowledge, which I'm not even sure how he demonstrates in this clip.
@lukebessey Did you know about that American socialist? I had never even heard his name before, and I thought Hitchens, if anything, showed that he is remarkably well-informed to even recall such "arcane" information. He didn't answer one question about the SEC because he is a journalist by training, and when a good journalist isn't completely informed about an issue, they are obliged to admit it.
Since he studied philosophy at university, I have to think that he knows a thing or two about it.
@Aaronthegreatest I was just making the observation that he completely lacks understanding of basic economic principles. If he were very intelligent he would know when not to give his opinion about something. To blab about something you don't understand is a real problem. I have listened to Hitchens hundreds of times, I even saw him live. The man sounds very smart, but his ideas are not always up to par :)
@lukebessey are you kidding? of course hes very intelligent. He has a british accent. That means he knows more than anyone else about everything.
anyways my real comment ill just post here too. Does anyone ever wonder, Why Hitchens is so much in the forefront of things? I mean, he has practically no credentials and yet people treat him as if he were Chuck Darwin himself. I really dont understand that.
@Aaronthegreatest about philosophy he probably knows much. About objectivism he likely knows nothing, Because its not taught in philosophy classes in college and it isnt considered a philosophy.
@Porojukaha Hitchens has read Rands books. I'd imagine the PPE course at Oxford provides one with the tools to deal with any ideas not covered-but how do you know it wasn't discussed?
@Porojukaha Does everything that you know come to you by way of college courses? I wouldn't assume so, and I don't think that we should make that mistake with Hitchens either. The man is an avid reader, and it's highly probable that he's read "Atlas Shrugged" and studied objectivism on his own time, wouldn't you say? Otherwise, he wouldn't have answered that question, either.
@Trauncher It costs twice as much per capita here and the results suck. done. Why do you think we're ranked 38th in healthcare? Because it's so good? It only benefits a handful of CEO's and investors...somehow they've tricked you....
@librarianeric Yes, she accepted it and she didn't use an assumed name. She used her married name. Whatever she got from the government, she paid for it for the millions she made in Hollywood. She deserved it.
@vincentrand100 Yes, she was entitled to Social Security. But that's not the point. The point was that she railed against Social Security and other government programs, then used them when she needed them.
She was a hypocrite of the lowest form - like her advocacy of personal freedom, unless of course you were a homosexual, which to her feeble mind, was a "disgusting choice."
@vincentrand100 Not quite. As the woman who urged her to apply for benefits said: “Doctors cost a lot more money than books earn and she could be totally wiped out."
Thus, Mrs. O'Connor did not put as much into the system as she got out. Therefore, by her own definition, she was a parasite.
@remick1974 And if she was going to take government assistance you'd think she would have done something about those hideously nicotine-blackened teeth. Woman, get thy self to a dentist!
@jscottupton The free market without governent interventian is really ugly. Imagine no fire brigade, no police, no schools, etc - all of these things are born not from a free market but from social organisation with government intervention using tax payers money - these are good things! The more important question is "how many social programs should the government operate?"
Agreed. To that end, ever notice the similarity to how most libertards regard to Free Market to how Fundamentalist Muslims/Christians regard their God? You find the same unquestioning absolutism, the same devaluing of the human intellect in favor of a construct touted to be "beyond our understanding"--the same anti-science--Economics is something we mere humans were not meant to fiddle with, nothing we can do to it could possibly make it better. Bronze age attitude, modern spin.
@jscottupton Implying that the market is the only moral system conveniently ignores the injustices inherent within. Having an abiding faith in capitalism is no different than having an abiding faith in god. No system is beyond reproach. Fundamentalists are fundamentalists .....
The problems with the American health care system are:
1) there is no system (it is a market)
2) what substitutes for a system is not about delivering health care (its about prestige, money, and politics.
3) the overhead of the american medical process will grow faster than medical advance until national health care and more deliberate support of science is instituted.
I disagree with everything Mr. Hitchens says about anything other than religion. Free market is the best thing that ever happened to the human race, that's no exaggeration. Why does America have all of these machines, why does America innovate so much not only in the field of healthcare but in virtually all aspects of society? I wish I could lay out the case for capitalism but I'm limited to only a few more characters. I love Hitchens, but social programs don't work (or are doomed to fail).
Sometimes I think Hitchens only ever called himself a Socialist because it was the bohemian and fashionable thing for intellectuals to do at the time rather than out of genuine belief in equality and the destruction of private power.
How else could he so quickly and easily do an about turn after 9/11?
celestial dictator.... cpsan callers are fucking intense.... fixed for the santa claus believers
Sconezeta 2 weeks ago
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One of the rules of pointing out the obvious entails NOT smashing printed materials into the faces of the people being informed as Maryland (to Gen. Lee) was not exactly Laos (to Richard Nixon) in relation to North Vietnam nor reflective of the way Northern whites habitually sacrificed themselves for negroes throughout the 1860's on orders from Lincoln the melancholic.
IconsOfTeleplay 2 weeks ago
Wait...I DO have to choose. Haha. Yes: Rand.
SaveTheWheat 2 weeks ago
If I had to choose between two sets of philosophies, I would choose Rand's over Hitchens's. Hitchens hits hard on the current issues, but Rand offered a nicely universal/comprehensive message.
SaveTheWheat 2 weeks ago
I remember medical care & medical insurance.
IconsOfTeleplay 3 weeks ago
Media-darling Christ' Hitchens, who documented his anal-sadistic practices with men in print, was likely a key member of the Geo. H.W. Bush (& family) pederasty ring. Are not men judged by the company they keep?
IconsOfTeleplay 3 weeks ago
David Frum is a Canadian shill for the Republican party. He tells out right lies about our Canadian health care system for his own selfish ideological egotistical reasons.My sister was diagonised 2 years ago with a very large brain tumor.THe diagonsis was made on a Saturday.She was operated on a Sunday and was home by Wednesday the day before Christmas and has made a full recovery. Mr. Frum please give up your Canadian citizenship and move to Texas.
59acres 3 weeks ago 9
freedom is a risk. "give me liberty, or give me death"~Patrick Henry
maggot1111666 3 weeks ago
The reaction on Hitch's face is priceless.
rsr789 1 month ago
@gspaulsson said "where else would Hitchens or Kennedy go?"
They both had more than enough money to go anywhere in the world. But they didn't jet to London or Toronto, two of the places they publicly declare as having superior healthcare to the USA. They beelined it to Duke and MD Anderson. Danny Williams is a multi-millionaire who got caught sneaking out of Newfoundland for care and you throw out the ad hominem "you are OK with hurting the poor" nonsense. Yes tool of the day you are.
cdsilber 1 month ago
@cdsilber The U.S. is a country of extremes - the world's best universities, a sub-par public education system. Elite medicine for the elite, an expensive mess for everyone else. Health-care facilities are in short supply everywhere; you ration them by wealth, we ration them by triage. Bottom line, in polls 87% of Canadians prefer our system to yours. The principle is the same as free access to police, fire services, courts, public roads. You do the same for people > 65, why not 4 everyone?.
gspaulsson 1 month ago
@gspaulsson
Polls don't mean much. I was quite happy with the Canadian healthcare system, too, when I was young and not making much money. Now that I'm actually paying for it and have seen the issues with it, it's a different story. The point stands - if Canada is so wonderful, why did Hitchens move to the US?
c6gunner 1 month ago
@c6gunner Huh? What connection did Hitchens ever have with Canada? He moved to the U.S. from the U.K. to make a career as a pundit - despite, not because of, its health-care system, as he makes very clear. Yes, we have problems - everyone does - and they should be rationally addressed. But as the polls clearly show, switching to a U.S.-style system is a non-starter, except for a small minority of ideologues like you.
gspaulsson 1 month ago
@gspaulsson
Exactly; he chose the US. Thanks for at least being honest on that point. Your psychic powers must be misfiring since you're attributing beliefs to me which I've never voiced or held, and you continue to hang on to the polls as if they were some sort of religious sacrament, but at least I can give you credit on the one point.
c6gunner 1 month ago
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BoggsDiamond 1 month ago
@c6gunner Hitchens moved to the U.S. not as a vote of approval, but to change things. Including the health care system, which in his opinion sucked. Watch the video again: he is quite clear on that. The poll I cited says that 87% of Canadians would not swap our system for the U.S. one. That is called empirical evidence, not a "religious sacrament". You imply that adopting the U.S. system would fix the "issues" with ours; few Canadians agree. I don't, having heard all the arguments.
gspaulsson 1 month ago
@gspaulsson
I implied nothing of the sort. Again, I think you should give up on your career as a psychic - it's clearly not working out for you.
c6gunner 1 month ago
@c6gunner when you descend to name-calling and ridicule, you show that you are running on empty. I can't post links here, but I got the 87% number off the Queen's University website (PDF, author Stuart Soroka (2007)). The CTV News website has a 2009 story wherein: "The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey suggests 82 per cent of Canadians believe our system is better than U.S. health care". All polls are roughly in that range. You are in a small minority, so suck it up..
gspaulsson 1 week ago
@gspaulsson Another instructive poll, also from 2009 (a lot of interest then because of the Obamacare debate) by Ipsos poll, 'U.S. vs. Canadian Healthcare: Poll Compares Citizens’ Experience as Patients'. Basically, patient satisfaction is about the same, though the U.S. system is twice as expensive. Canadians acknowledge problems with our system, but Soroka finds attitudes more positive than in previous polls, so people feel tha tthings are moving in the right direction.
gspaulsson 1 week ago
@gspaulsson My take on it is that our problems stem from three sources: funding cuts to med schools in the 90s in the name of balancing the budget; the CMA's resistance to accrediting immigrant doctors who would fill the gap; and the provinces have fragmented the system by grabbing more and more control. IMHO, we need a constitutional amendment to transfer health-care to the federal government, though Harper, playing to his Alberta consituency, is moving in the opposite direction.
gspaulsson 1 week ago
@gspaulsson
lol. You really are an idiot. You still don't get the simple fact that your polls mean absolutely nothing.
c6gunner 6 days ago
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@gspaulsson
I implied nothing of the sort. Again, I think you should give up on your career as a psychic - it's clearly not working out for you.
c6gunner 1 month ago
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@gspaulsson
I implied nothing of the sort. Again, I think you should give up on your career as a psychic - it's clearly not working out for you.
c6gunner 1 month ago
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@gspaulsson
I implied nothing of the sort. Again, you should give up on your career as a psychic - it's clearly not working out for you.
c6gunner 1 month ago
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@gspaulsson I live in a small town in eastern Canada. In the first period of a hockey game I was kicked behind my goalie pad and received a very deep wound, went to the hospital at the 5 minute mark in the first and saw the last 2 minutes of the game with 12 blue twist ties in my leg. Also broke my hand in a game requiring surgery. Had the operation 2 days later. My father went into kidney failure, airlifted, dialysis (3 hours) cured. (3 months). Our system is fine. and it's free.
BoggsDiamond 1 month ago
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lianghaochen 2 weeks ago
@cdsilber I think they are referring to the system as a whole being better for the average person in the country. There's no doubt that privately run hospitals will provide fantastic services for those who can afford them.
waori 1 month ago
I was saddened to read of Hitchens' early death, but the irony is when his own life was on the line he went to M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX, USA.
This is not inconsistent with the likes of Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams who snuck out to Miami for heart surgery, Ted Kennedy who argued for the superiority of Canadian and British healthcare only to get his cancer treatment at Duke, and thousands of politicians and wealthy from Europe who fly to the USA for their medicine.
cdsilber 1 month ago
@cdsilber where else would Hitchens or Kennedy go? They were U.S. citizens and residents, not covered in Canada. Meanwhile, many Americans go to Thailand for cheap surgery, or do without. We don't figure that whether you live or die should depend on how much money you have. If you do have money, of course you can buy whatever you want, but somewhere else. Danny Williams was welcome to go tie up U.S. medical resources at the expense of poor Americans, because you guys seem to be OK with that.
gspaulsson 1 month ago
The Canadian Healthcare system is so inferior to ours that Sarah Palin herself used to jump the border to Canada when she needed healthcare...
hawkmoon4 1 month ago
@hawkmoon4 I would never live or work in the U.S, exactly because of your healthcare system. You spend more in taxes to support Medicare, Medicaid, the V.A. etc etc than we do on our entire system, and THEN you still have to go and get private coverage. We live longer than you do, and our health-care outcomes are at least as good as yours. Ideologues like Frum go to the U.S.; back home, even the conservative government we have now doesn't dare touch healthcare. It's that popular.
gspaulsson 1 month ago
@gspaulsson the funny thing is, once we reach 65yo our healthcare system is as good as anyone's.Yeah, we have a long way to go to fix our heath care in the US but it's pretty nice where I live ... ; )
hawkmoon4 1 month ago
@hawkmoon4 yes, the only real difference between the U.S. system and the Canadian one is that you get Medicare starting at 65 (when it starts getting expensive) and we get it all our lives. The great virtue of the system (before the provinces started hacking away at it for their own selfish reasons) was its simplicity: you saw your doctor (any doctor you liked); he billed the government; you paid your taxes. Minimum bureaucracy, no expensive malpractice suits, no "defensive medicine".
gspaulsson 1 month ago
@gspaulsson you guys are the sensible North American country. Is marijuana legal there?
shkennedy33 1 month ago
@shkennedy33 fraid not, but more or less tolerated unless you're growing or dealing. We have a Conservative govt now, so no change is likely
gspaulsson 1 month ago
@gspaulsson makes sense to me...
hawkmoon4 1 month ago
@Andrewh313 Watch the 20/20 special called Sick in America Whose Body is It. Trust me, everything you thought about both the Canadian and British healthcare system is wrong. They even interview an actual Canadian docotor. Also, the problem I have with socialists and critics of capitalism is that they "insist" that capitalism needs to be replaced. Granted it needs to be fixed but replacing it is taking it a step too far.
556deltawolf 1 month ago
That guy who called Mr. Hitchens is probably the most stupidest man I have ever heard talk. He uses all these big words like "corporations", "capitalism", and "fascism" but he has no idea what he's talking about. Corporations like Wal-Mart and McDonalds do not exist because they are "fascists" they exist because the consumers (the people) shop there and want them. Corporate greed is not the driving force of corporations it's the demand of the consumer!
556deltawolf 1 month ago
@556deltawolf
If you would take perhaps a weekend of your life and invest it into reading some of the modern criticisms of capitalism, I can assure you that any subsequent youtube comments you make on the issue will be much less uninformed.
Andrewh313 1 month ago
@cnt66 Just because the book is a work of fiction doesn't mean the idea isn't. George Orwell's 1984, Eric Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front, Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, all of those books are works of fiction.
556deltawolf 1 month ago
@WilhelmDrake The Canadian socialized healthcare system is a failure. My grandma had a nephew who worked as a truck driver and he was driving in Canada. When he stopped at a cafe on the way, he had a heart attack and they took him to the hospital. Because of the delays and waiting periods in the Canadian socialized healthcare system, they couldn't treat him right away and by the time they did treat him, the heart attack had disabled him to the point where he couldn't work and he lost his job.
556deltawolf 1 month ago
@556deltawolf
What a marvelously compelling use of anecdotal evidence. Surely everyone else here sees the logic in condemning an entire social system because you heard of one case where it failed. Surely that one case proves that the system should be dismantled.
Now, try suggesting to Canadians that they adopt our system, and watch them riot.
Andrewh313 1 month ago
Mr. Frum is telling lies about the Canadian system.
Do not believe him.
WilhelmDrake 1 month ago in playlist More videos from CEHitchens33
@fenix144
lol. Come on, just study some basic economics please.
therealbradshaw 2 months ago
ANd ignorant of your own religion your opinion doesnt mean shit.
DemonDeathEXReviews 2 months ago
What i love about the Christian Right in America is how utterly Ignorant and stupid they are, most of them believe in Jesus. Now Jesus Hated the whole concept of selfishness, when a rich man asked him what he could do too praise jesus Jesus said give all your money to the poor. Now these dumbass are basicly worshipping a guy who they would hate if they met him in person. Thats why i say the American Rights opinion shouldnt even be consider when you are that hypocritical
DemonDeathEXReviews 2 months ago
National healthcare not economically sound? Despite the fact the NHS costs half the American system does adjusted for population size and provides better quality care? Laughable twaddle.
Skipissatan 2 months ago
National Health Care is simply not an economically sound idea in the long run. The question is not Canada healthcare versus US healthcare. The question should be free-market development versus government subsidized insolvency.
therealbradshaw 2 months ago
@therealbradshaw Free market is a failure and have always been. Get over it, stop crying.
fenix144 2 months ago
I live in Canada and suffer from a chronic, though not deadly, illness and while I have had to wait longer for tests and to see specialists but when someone needs emergency assistance they get it, for the rest of us we can wait to let the needier go first.
I would never want to live under the US health care system which puts people in debt for surviving and allows the poor to die. This is pure evil and I hope things change for my neighbors to the South; living is a right, not a privilege
LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 3 months ago
@mcnairone actually according to your constitution (assuming USdness on your part) it is the gov's job. Article 1, Section 8 - mayhap you should read your own constitution sometime?
felixmeister 3 months ago
@TennisAnnalyst
You're not my friend, and you are a child in the light of my intellect. Principle works, ground up. For one individual to use force against another except for defense is evil, period. I don't care about your country, I'm sure it's sinking in debt and fake money like the rest, but my country was not founded on those "principles". I know Marx, because I've read Marx. I don't live within stereotypes, like you, I do the work and the math, which is why I'm always right. run along
brazenhubris 3 months ago
@TennisAnnalyst
Your "analysis" is childish, but you're not alone. "Conservative" is a term with many conflicting meanings, like "faith". If one is conservative, one must be conserving something. Properly, conservatism would be about the conservation of the principles of the founding of the United States. Most "conservatives" don't understand them any more than liberals, but I do- so humanity is fortunately in that regard. To know everything fully, just watch my gift of a lecture on my chan.
brazenhubris 3 months ago
@TennisAnnalyst You're full of shit- I'm the greatest political mind on the planet, and it's not even close. I wrote a paragraph-by-paragraph rebuttal of the commie manifesto available on my website- thebrazenhubris. Marx is one evil, disgusting bastard who contradicts his own BS from one sentence to the next. I'll piss on his grave next chance I get. You can also watch my lecture on my youtube channel if you want to learn, but I doubt you do, because Marx is really antiknowledge.
brazenhubris 3 months ago
@TennisAnnalyst You're full of shit- I'm the greatest political mind on the planet, and it's not even close. I wrote a paragraph-by-paragraph rebuttal of the commie manifesto available on my website- thebrazenhubris d com. Marx is one evil, disgusting bastard who contradicts his own BS from one sentence to the next. I'll piss on his grave next chance I get. You can also watch my lecture on my youtube channel if you want to learn, but I doubt you do, because Marx is really antiknowledge.
brazenhubris 3 months ago
@TennisAnnalyst You serious? This is common knowledge dude.
poopster102 3 months ago
@TennisAnnalyst You are mixing categories, Conservatives=Economic Freedom, Social Restraints, Liberals= Economic Restraints, Social Freedoms.
poopster102 3 months ago
@TennisAnnalyst That is what i meant, liberalism is about the individual being sacrificed for the sake of society. i.e. the 1% should be taxed greatly to help the 99%. also the tea party is not libertarian, its conservative, fuck glen geck.
poopster102 3 months ago
Hitchens is a stupid man! He contradicts himself everytime he speaks. Typical ignorant socialist.
falcondriver100 3 months ago
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My 1 page masterpiece DESTROYS atheism, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 3 months ago
Typical liberal, "don't sacrifice to god. sacrifice to society"
poopster102 3 months ago
Some have asked that I view yvranx's reply to my brilliant comment. It doesn't really deserve a reply, but here it is: First it's a strawman argument, and then it begs the question. Fraud or force in any form is not capitalism, but another example of a rights violation. No tyranny begins with the tyrant saying he wants to be a tyrant, that's just what happens after the fact. As with solynrda- the money disappears into evil pockets, and all the “good” that was to happen disappears too. Marx Sucks
brazenhubris 3 months ago
Full of shit, lying, smearing, propaganda spewing libtard! Imagine that!
falcondriver100 3 months ago
Madison was right, and so was Rand. The first object of government is the protection fo the different and unequal faculties of acquireing property. The government exists solely to prevent individual "A" from being forced to be generous to individual "B". It is that freedome that allows individual "A" to control the property necessary to have an opportunity to be generous to individual "B". No one has a right to the actions of another, as that already has a name: "Slavery".
brazenhubris 4 months ago
@brazenhubris Nice idea. In reality though, A would use his property to prevent B from acquiring his own. B would need a government to prevent that. So A buys the government, too.
This is historic fact btw.
yvranx 4 months ago
@brazenhubris you should probably read what yvranx said in reply to your comment.
kght222 3 months ago
jesus christ.. cspan callers are fucking intense.
phoenixdef 4 months ago 34
@phoenixdef don't use the Lords name in vain
conraddoavil 2 weeks ago
@conraddoavil don't use the Lords name
johnthejew 2 weeks ago
@johnthejew Jesus Fucking Christ?
lianghaochen 2 weeks ago
@mcnairone
Cont:
You aren't ideologically consistent from post to post. On one hand you say it is "bullshit" that the government uses your tax money to help people; here's one of your quotes: "The Government has NO FUCKING RIGHT to force me to help people."
But in the next post you complain about the closing of state hospitals. Who do you think paid for those hospitals? Maybe you don't think it's so bad because it is state not federal but those state hospitals got a lot of federal funds.
jimbrown257 5 months ago
@mcnairone
"Fucks like you abolished the State Hospitals. Fuck you, and fuck your liberal friends."
...While it was liberal groups like the ACLU the fought the forced institutionalization of all but the most handicapped mental patients, the reason they closed state hospitals was to save money. The person most responsible for that was Reagan, he did it as president and as governor in California. They couldn't make money off the feebs so they tossed 'em out on the street.
jimbrown257 5 months ago
Excellent question.
sugarfreelemonade 5 months ago
Neither is half the stuff we need the government to do, yet it still needs to be done. The Constitution is a living document, not a static one. If you want to return to the 1780s, please do it somewhere else.
SurelyYewJest 5 months ago
Ayn Rand writes fiction. People can still confuse fiction with reality. This is amazing.
cnt66 5 months ago 18
@cnt66 no s she doesnt. maybe if you knew more about objectivism you wouldnt sound stupid
cnestudy1 4 months ago
@cnt66 Ayn rand writes political philosophy and fiction...
ChickityChoice 2 months ago
@cnt66 or they're Americans. there ya go
JagjeetMann 1 month ago
@JagjeetMann
Way to be a bigot.
SaveTheWheat 2 weeks ago
@cnt66
Ugh! Why did your comment get 12 thumbs?!?!
Did you not not know, when you wrote this 3 months ago, that Ayn Rand was a philosopher who actively encouraged people to adopt the principles of which she wrote? Did you not know that?
I'm horrified that at least twelve other people didn't know that either.
Andrewh313 1 month ago
@cnt66 Her "fiction" is the same style of fiction as George Orwell's, it has a deeply rooted political message, albeit with very different messages. Rand may have used fiction as it was her preferred genre, this doesn't change the fact that she wanted to inculcate others with objectivism
patient0Studios 1 month ago
@cnt66 Funny how the mediums she wrote about, when practised turned a fairly poor country into one of the richest and most prosperous in the world in around 150 years.
XpEAnUTBuTtERsUckSX 1 month ago
@XpEAnUTBuTtERsUckSX lol which country are we talking about?
gunterdak 1 month ago
Everyone I met from Canada wouldn't trade their system for ours at all.
I have met numerous Americans, some of the 50 million not insured and about another 100 with poor quality health care.
cnt66 5 months ago
@mcnairone The government does have this right. You gave it that right as citizens of your country. If you disagree with the democratically decided ideal to help others, you can simply leave.
felixmeister 5 months ago
@felixmeister - No, it doesn't. Governments don't have rights, individuals have rights, and the government only exists to protect them, i.e. the government exists to protect indviduals from sniviling weasle parasytic whiners. Democracy is what your hairy teet Marx is about. A boot in the ass of the plunderers is what the Constitution is about. You'll know the difference one day.
brazenhubris 3 months ago
@brazenhubris in actuality, nothing and no-one has 'rights' per-se. We have privileges & restrictions that are given & placed upon us in a mutually agreed (even if that agreement is by accepting subjugation & not fighting/dying for it) forum. The people gave the government certain rights & emplaced certain restrictions, this is what democracy is all about. The plunderers were given carte blanche when corporate entities were given the same privileges as people but without the same restrictions.
felixmeister 3 months ago
@mcnairone Well too late genius! That's what taxes are for! Paying for things that EVERYONE needs and uses. *I* wish that people's taxes didn't contribute towards services that ignorant, narcissistic, selfish individuals like yourself get benefits from. How bout you go live on a remote island somewhere so I don't have to pay taxes that help you in numerous ways and you don't have to have anyone's help or be forced to help anyone. We both win.
Skandronicus 5 months ago
@mcnairone I live in Australia where we have free Public Healthcare and education. All contribute in their tax towards these services and a huge proportion of the population benefits and moves forward thanks to that support system. I don't give a toss about your 'liberal' this, 'left-wing' that, American drama. I just think people should help each other. If random hostility and swearing is the upper reach of your ability to comment, then frankly I'm done bothering with you.
Skandronicus 5 months ago
Everyone definitely DOES get care in Canada. In Canada, it CAN take a long time to get an MRI because they're BUSY, but in the U.S. there are technicians sitting with their feet up because many people are DENIED the expensive scans by an insurance company.
newguy33X 5 months ago
@mcnairone Most 'idle beggars' are people with some kind of disability - usually learning and other mental problems.
Your attitude is disturbing. I'm fairly sure that if fate put you in the shoes of some of those 'idle beggars' you might find you'd wish society gave more of a damn, since individuals like you certainly don't.
But whatever dude. Every man for himself right? Yeah, I'm sure humanity got to this point of evolution with everyone thinking that way. My mistake.
Skandronicus 6 months ago
@Skandronicus
"Yeah, I'm sure humanity got to this point of evolution with everyone thinking that way. My mistake."
...Not to nitpick but people who complain about their money being "stolen by the government and given to idle beggars" generally believe that the Earth was created in its present form 6,000 years ago.
The irony is they will tell you you are going to hell unless you accept Jesus Christ....except that part where Jesus told his followers to give all their money to the poor.
jimbrown257 5 months ago
@jimbrown257 So true. =)
Skandronicus 5 months ago
David Frum is absolutely right, I have a recurring dislocated shoulder and I was put on a wait list for a year for My MRI in Canada. The U.S. is much better for those types of things.
MrBrational 6 months ago
@MrBrational
"I have a recurring dislocated shoulder and I was put on a wait list for a year for My MRI in Canada. The U.S. is much better for those types of things."
...Just so long as the insurance company doesn't decide your shoulder is fine and you don't need an MRI. Or you use your insurance too much and they decide they don't want to cover you anymore and "accidentally" drop your coverage. You're free to sign-up again but now you've got a pre-existing condition.
jimbrown257 5 months ago
Hitchen's is economically stupid - like all socialists. It's laughable.
cabgt 6 months ago
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@cabgt Hitchen's "Hitchens". No apostrophe necessary.
VesusSheist 6 months ago
@cabgt just admit it, everyone that disagrees with the myopic opinions and thoughts your limited education provide, you consider stupid.
DONNIMETROPOLIS313 6 months ago
@cabgt Other nations manage to provide healthcare for their people that doesn't simultaneously bankrupt the individual who needs it or put them into decades of debt. If Hitchins is "economically stupid", then the people running the finances in America must function on a single braincell. Socialist is not a dirty word. Know why? America is made up of millions of people. PEOPLE, sir. Therefore, acting with social conscience is a moral imperative. You can't remove society from the economics
Skandronicus 6 months ago
@Skandronicus Individuals are being bankrupt as a result of govt interventions (the U.S. is a far cry from free market healthcare). Australia's healthcare system is terrible (understatement) and will one day play a role in bankrupting the country! Yes, those running U.S. finances are stupid or willfully ingnorant. Yes, society is made up of INDIVIDUALS with natural rights. These rights should not be breached. So not only is there an economic point, but the moral/ethical argument at hand.
cabgt 5 months ago
@cabgt Pardon? Australia's healthcare system is terrible? Excuse me? That must be why the country ranks so high on the HDI then. I don't know if you are someone that lives there that thinks you are 'doing it tough' because you have to wait three months to have elective surgery, or you are someone that lives elsewhere that assumes Australia is a technological backwater but I am afraid you are very much incorrect and I would ask that you cite an example of a better healthcare system
crabinfestation 5 months ago 4
absolutely true what the first caller said. the ultra individualistic libertarian right is a greater threat than the religious right
Freethinker12341 7 months ago
fix the volume. can't hear a thing.
rebharath 7 months ago
Interesting that Hitchens compares the U.S. system to Britain and Frum to Canada, given that both were emigres from those respective countries to the U.S.
geckoslick 7 months ago
Its funny. Here in Australia, there isn't even a mention of the word socialism (it doesn't seem to be very popular here), yet we have a reasonably strong labor sector, a quality welfare state and universal health care for all. It works bitches.
mojorhythm 7 months ago
I forgot to turn my volume down and it scared my cat who then jumped 6 ft into the air landing on my coffee cup tipping it over and spilling the burning shit into my lap,scorching my balls, when I ran into the bathroom I tripped on a towel and damn near broke my back!!! The cat still has not been found! It knows I'm pissed. Fucking asshole!!!
goofywilly 8 months ago
yea the dumb brit shouldn't be expected to understand Objectivism
zieben64 8 months ago
@zieben64 do you know what is the stereotype about americans? ironically it's true in your case...
Darusdei 7 months ago
@Darusdei and my stereotype of euros is borderline communists. oh wait, hitchens was a communist too, how coincidental.
zieben64 7 months ago
@zieben64 yeah socialist communist nazi right? it's amusing how americans like to chant those terms without even understanding them. (hence the phrase stupid americans)
Darusdei 7 months ago
@zieben64 no you moron. communist as in socialist. euros tax the shit out the rich, nanny state, shitty socialist health care. France is HILARIOUS hmm...you can add more than I
zieben64 7 months ago
@zieben64 Your naivity is shocking.
boydni 7 months ago
@boydni Ok Mr. Euro, European nations aren't nanny states? Universal health care isn't socialized medicine? France is spot on when it comes to individual rights, such as the RIGHT to a movie theater on friday night?? hah...
zieben64 7 months ago
@zieben64 .nanny states?since when is socialized medicine a bad thing?there are tens of thousands of people in america who die every year because of a lack of healthcare cover,but having the right to own a gun is more important?indivdual rights my ass.The only thing ebtter about america is freedom of speech.No country protects freedom of speech better than america.
laudrup90 7 months ago
@laudrup90 socialized medicine is a bad thing when you tell your grandma she is too old to get a kidney dialysis because she is 2 years above the cutoff date for receiving care(rationing of healthcare is inevitable). Sorry grandma, the government wants you to die now...you have the money to pay for the care? naa, you can't even pay the doctor for treatment, for if every doctor took the job with more money, there would be no doctors for the society!!
Doctors are, in effect, enslaved!!
zieben64 7 months ago
@zieben64 What a crock of conjectural bullshit. I'm British, we have socialized healthcare and no such cut off date exists. I have family members in their late 80s who have received a litany of high level medical procedures. As Hitchens said, the U.S is one of the very few industrialized countries in the world that denies its people the right to free healthcare. You expect me to believe that America and fucking South Africa are the last great bastions of rationality? Catch up.
hippotoast 7 months ago
@hippotoast Go walk off your job more, ya brit. Perhaps there is a reason why your nation still gets great service health care but then can't afford to play their public employees. If things aren't rationed, things will just get out of hand with everybody being able to top notch care, and the spending will just be out of control. I, for one ,do NOT want the government in charge of all these things, look at Greek protestors, odd things happen when your boss is your government.
zieben64 7 months ago
@zieben64 Stop conjecturing it's making you look far more stupid than you really are, which in itself is quite the feat. We can afford to pay our public employees, our silly incumbent right wing government is just going a bit gung ho on the old austerity measures at the moment, but isn't that the case everywhere in this stagnant west? Our public sector employees on the whole still receives on average a higher per annum wage than the mean national income, which is one of the highest in Europe.
hippotoast 7 months ago
@hippotoast I can have sympothy for public employees having things cut, or whatever. But look, this is what you have to accept if your boss is the government. We need LESS government employees and MORE private sector if we don't want these things to happen, or else pay the consequence of bureaucrats dictating our benefits. And the ultimate display of this is socialized medicine, Where you need "austarity measures" because health care wasn't properly forcasted, OR you will have rationing.
zieben64 7 months ago
@zieben64 We need austerity measures because we've just come out of a global recession and the western world has little to no economic growth whatsoever, it has NOTHING to do with healthcare over budgeting. Similar situation in Greece except that deep seated social woes (nepotism, cronyism, corruption etc.) have compounded with the recession to bring about a really nasty situation, which again is not at all to do with socialist policy.
hippotoast 7 months ago
@hippotoast Your government spends more than it takes in, bottom line(much like us in USA), and your telling me health care cost has nothing to do with that? Who caused the global recession, who hinders job growth? The government's over regulations. Think of a world with no regulations, very little taxations. Granted, you may think this is a dangerious world to live in, but imagine all the jobs...being able to start up a restaurant in your own home with no red tape would be great, yes?
zieben64 7 months ago
@zieben64 I don't think this ideal of your fits with reality. After all, it was rampant deregulation in the 80s and 90s that lay the foundations for the recession we're barely out of. There is a direct link between Greenspan's initiatives (who is an Objectivist by the way) to dramatically lower taxes and attempt to let markets stabilize themselves and the dotcom and the 1997 Asian financial crises. You keep the markets out of check, greed and chaos unsues, that's why a mixed economy is ideal.
hippotoast 7 months ago
@hippotoast Our governments big goal, and reason for housing bubble, was that we wanted every american to own a home, regaurdless of wheather it was financially sound. This was our policy and so we manipulated the market so banks would give loans to these people, after all, the government is insurring all this right? Low and behold, its a bad idea to give people homes they can't afford...for EVERYONE. As for Greenspan, no he is not an Objectivist, although at one time he may have been
zieben64 7 months ago 3
@zieben64 It appears we have encountered a problem. We both have unshakeable convictions on society and politics that are totally opposed to one another, yet evidently neither of us posses the charisma nor ability to convince each other of our world views.
hippotoast 7 months ago
@hippotoast haha, probably, so let me just direct. Ayn Rand!!
zieben64 7 months ago
@zieben64 .france is hilarious?lol oh yh better education and healthcare standards than america and it sucks?lol what a joke.Tax reductions dont make a difference fool.All your jobs went overseas and you dumbasses overconsume so much because of your feeble minded lifestyle your addicted to foriegn oil.
laudrup90 7 months ago
@zieben64 .funy because the was you have completely stolen was fought against ultra far right morons,fool.
laudrup90 7 months ago
@laudrup90 Try completing a cogent and clear sentence before you post, fool...
Periods go at the end of sentences, not beginning
zieben64 7 months ago
I love the reaction the caller got out of Hitchens.
ChristlicherKrieger3 8 months ago
I wonder if Frum ever feels bad about lying the way he does.
inademv 8 months ago
Christopher Hitchens has just discredited himself across the board! To have this little understanding of economics and history tells me that this guy cannot be trusted in the realm of philosophy or religion. I mean really, he just sounds smart, but when you listen to his ideas it is hard not to mentally vomit.
lukebessey 10 months ago
@lukebessey what are you talking about? He's always snarky and laconic when he answers questions; that's just his mo. This is hardly the forum for expressing philosophical ideas in depth--he's answering bloody calls on CSPAN. If you are judging a guy completely off of soundbites like this, that is more liable to induce vomiting then his alleged lack of knowledge, which I'm not even sure how he demonstrates in this clip.
Aaronthegreatest 9 months ago
@lukebessey Did you know about that American socialist? I had never even heard his name before, and I thought Hitchens, if anything, showed that he is remarkably well-informed to even recall such "arcane" information. He didn't answer one question about the SEC because he is a journalist by training, and when a good journalist isn't completely informed about an issue, they are obliged to admit it.
Since he studied philosophy at university, I have to think that he knows a thing or two about it.
Aaronthegreatest 9 months ago
@Aaronthegreatest I was just making the observation that he completely lacks understanding of basic economic principles. If he were very intelligent he would know when not to give his opinion about something. To blab about something you don't understand is a real problem. I have listened to Hitchens hundreds of times, I even saw him live. The man sounds very smart, but his ideas are not always up to par :)
lukebessey 9 months ago
@lukebessey are you kidding? of course hes very intelligent. He has a british accent. That means he knows more than anyone else about everything.
anyways my real comment ill just post here too. Does anyone ever wonder, Why Hitchens is so much in the forefront of things? I mean, he has practically no credentials and yet people treat him as if he were Chuck Darwin himself. I really dont understand that.
Porojukaha 9 months ago
@Porojukaha lol. Yeah, it is a little ridiculous. The British accent is all you need:)
lukebessey 8 months ago
@Porojukaha and yet somehow i get the feeling that he has much heavier credentials than a random youtube kid.... strange indeed
Darusdei 7 months ago
@lukebessey .lacks basic economic principles such as?
laudrup90 7 months ago
@laudrup90 such as the role of profit and loss in an economy.
lukebessey 7 months ago
@Aaronthegreatest about philosophy he probably knows much. About objectivism he likely knows nothing, Because its not taught in philosophy classes in college and it isnt considered a philosophy.
Porojukaha 9 months ago
@Porojukaha Hitchens has read Rands books. I'd imagine the PPE course at Oxford provides one with the tools to deal with any ideas not covered-but how do you know it wasn't discussed?
Skipissatan 8 months ago
@Skipissatan There is a reason why Chris does not refute "Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology",
The reason is, he can not do it. Neither can you.
hsfbunny 8 months ago
@hsfbunny Or that it's silly nonsense...and he's on a tv show...
Skipissatan 2 months ago
@Porojukaha Does everything that you know come to you by way of college courses? I wouldn't assume so, and I don't think that we should make that mistake with Hitchens either. The man is an avid reader, and it's highly probable that he's read "Atlas Shrugged" and studied objectivism on his own time, wouldn't you say? Otherwise, he wouldn't have answered that question, either.
Aaronthegreatest 8 months ago
Ayn Rand was a berk. Objectivism, pfffff.
Flowerblood 10 months ago
I've finally found something I disagree with Hitch about.
tenkins 10 months ago
This guy sounds like a villain from Atlas Shrugged. I wish Ayn Rand was still alive to put this guy in his place objectivist-style.
DuckyFlodes117 10 months ago
wow david frum's been a moron for decades and still has work.
kwballzandy 10 months ago 2
We do have a national healthcare system. Buy your insurance. done. don't buy it, dont cry when your own irresponsibility comes back to bite you.
Trauncher 10 months ago
@Trauncher It costs twice as much per capita here and the results suck. done. Why do you think we're ranked 38th in healthcare? Because it's so good? It only benefits a handful of CEO's and investors...somehow they've tricked you....
tstruss912 10 months ago
@tstruss912 Fail.
The MEDICAL results in the US are vastly superior... all studies show this plainly.
RyderSpearmann 10 months ago
@RyderSpearmann Post links.
tstruss912 10 months ago
@Trauncher Tell that to Ayn Rand who accepted government assistance when she got lung cancer from chain smoking.
librarianeric 9 months ago
@librarianeric Yes, she accepted it and she didn't use an assumed name. She used her married name. Whatever she got from the government, she paid for it for the millions she made in Hollywood. She deserved it.
vincentrand100 9 months ago
@vincentrand100 Yes, she was entitled to Social Security. But that's not the point. The point was that she railed against Social Security and other government programs, then used them when she needed them.
She was a hypocrite of the lowest form - like her advocacy of personal freedom, unless of course you were a homosexual, which to her feeble mind, was a "disgusting choice."
librarianeric 9 months ago
@librarianeric
She paid her taxes she might as well use it. Otherwise you'll get screwed twice.
madass888 9 months ago
@vincentrand100 Not quite. As the woman who urged her to apply for benefits said: “Doctors cost a lot more money than books earn and she could be totally wiped out."
Thus, Mrs. O'Connor did not put as much into the system as she got out. Therefore, by her own definition, she was a parasite.
remick1974 9 months ago
@remick1974 And if she was going to take government assistance you'd think she would have done something about those hideously nicotine-blackened teeth. Woman, get thy self to a dentist!
librarianeric 9 months ago
The caller is speaking nonsense...
jscottupton 11 months ago
"The market" is a system...the only moral system. It is government interference that is cause the problems.
jscottupton 11 months ago
@jscottupton The free market without governent interventian is really ugly. Imagine no fire brigade, no police, no schools, etc - all of these things are born not from a free market but from social organisation with government intervention using tax payers money - these are good things! The more important question is "how many social programs should the government operate?"
masala505 11 months ago
@masala505
Agreed. To that end, ever notice the similarity to how most libertards regard to Free Market to how Fundamentalist Muslims/Christians regard their God? You find the same unquestioning absolutism, the same devaluing of the human intellect in favor of a construct touted to be "beyond our understanding"--the same anti-science--Economics is something we mere humans were not meant to fiddle with, nothing we can do to it could possibly make it better. Bronze age attitude, modern spin.
Eldeecue 10 months ago
@Eldeecue That's an interesting point!
masala505 10 months ago
@jscottupton Implying that the market is the only moral system conveniently ignores the injustices inherent within. Having an abiding faith in capitalism is no different than having an abiding faith in god. No system is beyond reproach. Fundamentalists are fundamentalists .....
librarianeric 9 months ago
The problems with the American health care system are:
1) there is no system (it is a market)
2) what substitutes for a system is not about delivering health care (its about prestige, money, and politics.
3) the overhead of the american medical process will grow faster than medical advance until national health care and more deliberate support of science is instituted.
drfoxcourt 11 months ago
I disagree with everything Mr. Hitchens says about anything other than religion. Free market is the best thing that ever happened to the human race, that's no exaggeration. Why does America have all of these machines, why does America innovate so much not only in the field of healthcare but in virtually all aspects of society? I wish I could lay out the case for capitalism but I'm limited to only a few more characters. I love Hitchens, but social programs don't work (or are doomed to fail).
Zimnyification 11 months ago
@Zimnyification
i agree with you completly!!!
But America has gone downwards for a long time now.
It has been going downwards since the depression unfortunately.
And there are way to many Christian fundamentalists there.
At least thaths a good thing with socialism it gets rid of the christian fundamentalists, thaths about the only good thing with socialism anyway
unfad1ng 11 months ago
Sometimes I think Hitchens only ever called himself a Socialist because it was the bohemian and fashionable thing for intellectuals to do at the time rather than out of genuine belief in equality and the destruction of private power.
How else could he so quickly and easily do an about turn after 9/11?
kjsdyggf 11 months ago
tried listening to music after this.
*click* BOOOOMMMMM BOOOMMM
*wakes neighboors* .... fuck.
CytherLynx 1 year ago 25
I wish I could hear this
Nightmare91o 1 year ago