@dodger2829 It seemed like there were 3 finales to this story. Holden found out the truth, then Lily found out, then Holden found out again after it was wiped from his memories!
Lucinda is brillant her adlibing and gestures are so authentic. And when shes in scenes with Iva it really comes alive. I agree Susan Marie Snyder is excellent in these scenes.
It was a nice touch on the part of the writers that Lucinda made up a story about looking for her half brother just as the Royce/ Neal storyline was starting up.
I may not have been that fond of Rattray as Lily, but towards the end of her run, I liked her performance, especially in this scene....I may be in the minority on this. I have only seen bits and pieces of this confrontation scene, but seeing it in full....Heather held her ground here. Thanks for uploading the clip!
@njlee8785 I remember when Connor refused to support Lily during Lily's custody fight with Damian. It was such juicy drama, as Cal was Lily's grandfather and doted on her. The stories were really getting better at that time. Unfortunately they lost their way with Connor after that.
Thank you so much, Oakdalian, as well as atwtfaithful, for this clip. I've seen a bit of this in a Lily/Holden clip montage but never these full 9 minutes. I was blown away. So enthralling seeing these lies unraveled, and Lucinda pushing too far.
This is Susan Marie Snyder's best work on ATWT. Just a fantastic performance.
Once again Iva ends up being the damaging truthteller.
I'm glad they let Heather Rattray play these scenes out. Today's soaps would have waited until Martha was back.
@CarlD2 You're welcome. It was a pleasure to upload it. I only wish the following summer's revelation to Holden was still on YouTube. This story was an interesting contrast to the contortions of Carolyn's murder, probably because of being rooted in the character traits of people we knew so well. Mixing the heartache in with the happy nuptials at chez Hughes worked nicely. Iva's reaction seems to say that she fears the worst of Lily's wrath. Luckily Lucinda dug a deeper hole for herself!
In later years, Lucinda admitted that she had done a lot of rotten things, while I agree with the fact that many of her actions were misguided, I always admired her desire to keep Lily out of pain. I do not agree her actions, but her intentions were good. What I always found most fascinating about Lucinda were her insecurities, her need to be loved by her "pussy cat" and her loneliness because it was always there hiding behind her bravado.
@thmspierson A lot of the time I felt like Lucinda was just trying to protect Lily from herself, and Lily was scapegoating Lucinda. This story is probably the only time I really felt that Lucinda stepped way out of line. It's funny how these dynamics played out to the very last episode. Thank goodness Liz Hubbard was willing to stay.
@CarlD2 I started watching ATWT because of Ms. Hubbard and always LOVED Lucinda. I had a real love hate relationship with Lily because she never once seemed to completely love and appreciate Lucinda. Also you are right, Lily was a character who made very bad decisions, to an annoying degree.
@thmspierson I disliked Lily mostly for the victim routine and because her relationship with Holden bored/annoyed me ("we're a part of each other" - AGH!). Over time I did begin to appreciate MB's work and I grew to like the more settled version of Lily and Holden, but I was always more drawn to Lucinda. It was fitting that in the end, Lucinda was the only main parent in Lily's life.
I'm glad the last year had Lucinda back to being the all-controlling, meddling, vulnerable mother. Loved it!
@CarlD2 There was a great scene between Lucinda and Lily in late 91 after Lucinda lost Walsh Enterprises and was starting up Worldwide. Lucinda went to Lily and asked her to sell her Walsh stock and invest in Worldwide. Lucinda learned that Lily told Kirk what Lucinda was planning to do. Lucinda found it a betrayal and confronted Lily about it. Lily's response was that Kirk was family which hit Lucinda hard, she said a few words about betrayal and trust and simply walked out on Lily.
@thmspierson To see Lucinda offer a rebuttal about her own suffering would have been nice here, even if Lily shot her down. Obviously you can't tell so many lies without rationalizing it somehow. She's ruthless enough to at least make an attempt.
@CarlD2 Yes, there's nothing like Lucinda in rare form. It's still a travesty that Lisa Brown was ever let go, though. You can tell just from her scenes related to Holden's "funeral" in 2001. There must have been room for Iva to at least dote on Luke in a way that she never did during Lily's childhood. To see her and Lucinda meddle in his relationship with Noah would have been a treat. Perhaps she could have rivaled Susan for the nutty Dr. Decker's affections too.
@Oakdalian There were so many ideas and possibilities for Iva. I don't like to think about them anymore because it really pisses me off, but you're right, I didn't mean to say that Lucinda should have been the only parent for Lily. The Lucinda/Iva dynamics were just too fascinating to ignore.
@CarlD2 I think this was why I at times, I loved Connor, b/c she did NOT put up with Lily's holier than thou routine, and would tend to call her out on it sometimes. She more or less did this during Heather Rattray's portrayal of Lily, but w/ Martha Byrne, that routine toned down a little bit.
@thmspierson I try to see Lucinda's side of it. Ultimately, assuming that Lily couldn't handle Aaron or Holden's disappearance was quite cruel. Lily says herself in this clip that she could have dealt with the baby, since she knew that Holden slept with Julie. This was the couple that split, married Emily and Derek respectively and still wound up together after all.
I remember this storyline. They kept Aaron a secret to keep Holden and Lily together, and in the process, this lie broke Linden up. Great irony.
deb310red 4 months ago
So awesome! The emotional finale of Doug Marland's last great ATWT storyline. Thanks for posting!!!!
dodger2829 6 months ago
@dodger2829 It seemed like there were 3 finales to this story. Holden found out the truth, then Lily found out, then Holden found out again after it was wiped from his memories!
Oakdalian 6 months ago
Lucinda is brillant her adlibing and gestures are so authentic. And when shes in scenes with Iva it really comes alive. I agree Susan Marie Snyder is excellent in these scenes.
hotboi4fun 6 months ago
It was a nice touch on the part of the writers that Lucinda made up a story about looking for her half brother just as the Royce/ Neal storyline was starting up.
Sculdergirl 6 months ago
I may not have been that fond of Rattray as Lily, but towards the end of her run, I liked her performance, especially in this scene....I may be in the minority on this. I have only seen bits and pieces of this confrontation scene, but seeing it in full....Heather held her ground here. Thanks for uploading the clip!
njlee8785 6 months ago
@njlee8785 I remember when Connor refused to support Lily during Lily's custody fight with Damian. It was such juicy drama, as Cal was Lily's grandfather and doted on her. The stories were really getting better at that time. Unfortunately they lost their way with Connor after that.
CarlD2 6 months ago
Thank you so much, Oakdalian, as well as atwtfaithful, for this clip. I've seen a bit of this in a Lily/Holden clip montage but never these full 9 minutes. I was blown away. So enthralling seeing these lies unraveled, and Lucinda pushing too far.
This is Susan Marie Snyder's best work on ATWT. Just a fantastic performance.
Once again Iva ends up being the damaging truthteller.
I'm glad they let Heather Rattray play these scenes out. Today's soaps would have waited until Martha was back.
CarlD2 6 months ago
@CarlD2 You're welcome. It was a pleasure to upload it. I only wish the following summer's revelation to Holden was still on YouTube. This story was an interesting contrast to the contortions of Carolyn's murder, probably because of being rooted in the character traits of people we knew so well. Mixing the heartache in with the happy nuptials at chez Hughes worked nicely. Iva's reaction seems to say that she fears the worst of Lily's wrath. Luckily Lucinda dug a deeper hole for herself!
Oakdalian 6 months ago
In later years, Lucinda admitted that she had done a lot of rotten things, while I agree with the fact that many of her actions were misguided, I always admired her desire to keep Lily out of pain. I do not agree her actions, but her intentions were good. What I always found most fascinating about Lucinda were her insecurities, her need to be loved by her "pussy cat" and her loneliness because it was always there hiding behind her bravado.
thmspierson 6 months ago
@thmspierson A lot of the time I felt like Lucinda was just trying to protect Lily from herself, and Lily was scapegoating Lucinda. This story is probably the only time I really felt that Lucinda stepped way out of line. It's funny how these dynamics played out to the very last episode. Thank goodness Liz Hubbard was willing to stay.
CarlD2 6 months ago
@CarlD2 I started watching ATWT because of Ms. Hubbard and always LOVED Lucinda. I had a real love hate relationship with Lily because she never once seemed to completely love and appreciate Lucinda. Also you are right, Lily was a character who made very bad decisions, to an annoying degree.
thmspierson 6 months ago
@thmspierson I disliked Lily mostly for the victim routine and because her relationship with Holden bored/annoyed me ("we're a part of each other" - AGH!). Over time I did begin to appreciate MB's work and I grew to like the more settled version of Lily and Holden, but I was always more drawn to Lucinda. It was fitting that in the end, Lucinda was the only main parent in Lily's life.
I'm glad the last year had Lucinda back to being the all-controlling, meddling, vulnerable mother. Loved it!
CarlD2 6 months ago
@CarlD2 There was a great scene between Lucinda and Lily in late 91 after Lucinda lost Walsh Enterprises and was starting up Worldwide. Lucinda went to Lily and asked her to sell her Walsh stock and invest in Worldwide. Lucinda learned that Lily told Kirk what Lucinda was planning to do. Lucinda found it a betrayal and confronted Lily about it. Lily's response was that Kirk was family which hit Lucinda hard, she said a few words about betrayal and trust and simply walked out on Lily.
thmspierson 6 months ago
@thmspierson To see Lucinda offer a rebuttal about her own suffering would have been nice here, even if Lily shot her down. Obviously you can't tell so many lies without rationalizing it somehow. She's ruthless enough to at least make an attempt.
Oakdalian 6 months ago
@CarlD2 Yes, there's nothing like Lucinda in rare form. It's still a travesty that Lisa Brown was ever let go, though. You can tell just from her scenes related to Holden's "funeral" in 2001. There must have been room for Iva to at least dote on Luke in a way that she never did during Lily's childhood. To see her and Lucinda meddle in his relationship with Noah would have been a treat. Perhaps she could have rivaled Susan for the nutty Dr. Decker's affections too.
Oakdalian 6 months ago
@Oakdalian There were so many ideas and possibilities for Iva. I don't like to think about them anymore because it really pisses me off, but you're right, I didn't mean to say that Lucinda should have been the only parent for Lily. The Lucinda/Iva dynamics were just too fascinating to ignore.
CarlD2 6 months ago
@CarlD2 I think this was why I at times, I loved Connor, b/c she did NOT put up with Lily's holier than thou routine, and would tend to call her out on it sometimes. She more or less did this during Heather Rattray's portrayal of Lily, but w/ Martha Byrne, that routine toned down a little bit.
njlee8785 6 months ago
@thmspierson I try to see Lucinda's side of it. Ultimately, assuming that Lily couldn't handle Aaron or Holden's disappearance was quite cruel. Lily says herself in this clip that she could have dealt with the baby, since she knew that Holden slept with Julie. This was the couple that split, married Emily and Derek respectively and still wound up together after all.
Oakdalian 6 months ago