Will a king prosecute a king? Pt2

[SIMKINETICS]

So much can be learned from peeking behind the curtain. There are corporatist movements afoot to begin restricting access to the web. Some people do not want the truth to come out because they know that certain public knowledge will bring them down, maybe literally. Please do everthing you can to protect YouTube, TRN & the internet at large from censorship. Applying access speed in tiers for pricing may be a nudge toward suppression. Beware of any erosion that forsakes free speech.

[l8rthen]

Cheney can't "push" Obama into a corner. Obama has said he would close it. Hopefully he and those advisers had thought this out. Glad to see that Portugal will take them; Aussies had refused.

[putittogether]

I find it very funny that Americans will not hold Obama to restore the Republic and their Inalienable Rights.

[JeffHilliard]

I wish after the reporter asked Dick Cheney when the war on terror was going to be over if he could of included in that sentance the war on personal freedom and civil liberties. If Obama doesn't prosecute them then he is also a fraud, war criminal basically a talking puppet. Can you do some real news on the real power running the country?

[geraboldy]

we need a mey bomb for places like DemocracyNow & Real News

[im4wur]

"Whether ours shall be a government of laws and not of men is now for Congress and ultimately the American people to decide".

[im4wur]

"Now is the hour!

We have the power!

WE are the ones, we've been waiting for!"

(phrasing borrowed from David Korten's - "The Great Turning" ( watch?v=33JC0lZ2xgA )

I aM 4 Who yoU aRe

[im4wur]

The next three months are going to be critical for our country. If Obama, Congress and the Judiciary don't move quickly to change the course the Bush administration has set for us. Its my belief were doomed (itll only be a matter of time).

Please, remember the value of PRECEDENT!

Please, let your representives know how you feel!

"Our country—when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right".

It's time to put OUR country right!

[im4wur]

I ask you: Do you value the moral high ground that America once possessed? (which, btw, is the most valuable weapon against terrorism there is)

Do you value the civil rights that so many Americans have died to give you (and died to protect)? Are you going to just give them up, without a fight? (cont.)

[im4wur]

To those people who believed Bush's lies

and supported his war with Iraq. I say you share responsibility for what he's done in our name. You are culpable for the Bush adminstration's crimes!

So, I ask you. Are you going to do something to fix that which you have helped destroy? (cont.)

[im4wur]

However, the Bush administration preyed on many good hearted Americans gullibility. All that crap about: If youre not with us. Your against us. If you disagree with Bushs policy your not a REAL American.

Unfortunately, too many people FELL for it! @$%@#$@! (cont.)

[im4wur]

The level of gall exhibited by the Bush administration is truly astounding! At first (after 9/11) I think many Americans were frightened and even more so enrraged by the attack. They wanted to know that SOMETHING was being done to correct this wrong. And so, they allowed the current adminsitration to gather too much power. In hopes that daddy would take care of it. (cont.)

[im4wur]

@#$@#, We impeach a President for lying to Congress about having sex, but we dont impeach one for lying to Congress about his justifications for going to war? #$%#$! (cont.)

[im4wur]

2) Reclaim our civlil rights! (habeas corpus,

insist that a President's casus belli (justification for war) be valid (so our military doesnt have to die for a lie), warrantless taps...)

3) Make a statement that such audacious diseregard for the very values by which we define ourselves, will not be tolerated by the American public.

Then I think were doomed.

If a President can lie to Congress about the justification for going to war. Then what next? What isnt ok America? (cont.)

[im4wur]

What concerns me is that given all the evidence we have against these criminals. If we don't stop them now. We may never get another chance.

If we (the American public) dont:

1) confront the egregious crimes that have been perpetrated in our name (invading a sovergn nation (Iraq), torture, breaking the rules of war as outlined in the Geneva Convention).  (cont.)

[im4wur]

"Our country—when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right.

Personally, I believe Schurzs comments are much more in the spirit of American patriotism than the anthem to governmental licence its derivitive has become.

[im4wur]

(cont.) "They will not fail to recognize that our dignity, our free institutions and the peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: Our country—when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (19th century U.S. Senator (and immigrant))

[im4wur]

Would that before March of 2003. More Americans remembered the words of a True American Patriot when he said: "I confidently trust that the American people will prove themselves too wise not to detect the false pride or the dangerous ambitions or the selfish schemes which so often hide themselves under that deceptive cry of mock patriotism: Our country, right or wrong!"

(cont.)

[xmattycorex]

"they are not eligible to rights, that an american does..." WTF is that about? the politicians and people really believe we get our rights from government as a privilege? no we get our rights from property and self-ownership! the Guantanamo prisoners have the same rights as anything other living thing existing in this reality. they are never charged with a crime, legally tortured, and held for as long as the U.S. wants....now who is the real terrorist...

[GabrielGZNH]

Haha, why do all Muslims tell me I have a Muslim name?? Yes, I know, my Father is Egyptian, I was named after his younger brother..  I know Gabriel is an Angel, I don't beleive in angels.. My name isn't going to Change that.

[GabrielGZNH]

=====

[Raz117]

seriosuly why not just listen to

GabrielGZNH arguing when ur gonna lose, he owns u

[lightskies1]

If we dont deal with Bush and Cheney now, whats to stop the next president from being part of the same illegal and unconsitutional activities? Or expanding them? There has to be concequences for their actions.

[Pleblian]

The prisoners are suppose to be treated as alleged criminals subject to criminal laws.

If they were POW's we wouldn't be allowed to torture them but they are weld in abstentia, which is something that is going to come back and nip us in the ass.

[SonnyWyatt]

....I would like to see Cheney waterlogged....

[MrXfromPlanetX]

I'm wondering if The Real News has looked into any issues related to the Federal Reserve. Here's a collection of documentaries on the Fed inflationtax(.)blogspt(.)com

It would be great if you guys would look into the issue and report on it.

[WhoRonPaul]

i could give a fuck what dick cheney or any congressman thinks- they are simply public servants that have run amuck and now have gone completely insane

[Badjohn007]

All over the world people are commiting various atrocities against others and their own citizens. How did America come to be the face of torture and oppression? Better believe those prisoners would rather be on Guantanamo than a prisoner to any middle east regime. Look at what the Chinese do to their prisoners. There's a lot more brutal places in the world than Guantanamo. If these zealots weren't so vocal with their anti American feelings they might not get mistaken as violent terrorists.

[highlandersas]

Muslimghost your discusting language does not represent islam but only you...I really dont believe you are a Muslim

[dorsguy]

IT doesn't matter if they close it or not. The U.S. have over 800 prison camps ready to go at home.

[AbtinX]

Haha yeah ... but they fall under the US legal system and guantanamo doesn't. It's basically a torture camp outside of any legal jurisprudence and that's how they like it

[mynewschannel]

These are not Kings.

They are Presidents.

If using the term 'King' is a reference to chess, then 'King prosecute a King' will only result in a stalemate.

[kurtilein3]

additional info:

there currently are discussions going on in germany and other european nations if we should maybe grant asylum to all the innocent people in guantanamo, to help obama to shut it down and to make a statement in support of human rights and against torture.

so maybe europe will take guantanamo-prisoners, but they would be more or less free, would get full access to the media and so on, and the united states would need to more or less admit that those people are not dangerous.

[MaverickCentricity]

Close Guantanamo at "the end of the war on terror" (Cheney). lol, what a fucking joke. The nerve of this guy.

[fred10538]

Notice how in answer to the question, Cheney talks about the prisoners as if they are already guilty!

[callieland]

it's not difficult to prosecute anyone if you have a case.

[kurydebarcelona]

and what about the war profitiers, hally burton, black waters, etc? politicians, bankers, military, all must be held accontable of the bush era crimes

[kurydebarcelona]

by the way, we must prosecute also the europeans and australian (and central american, asian) liders that follow bush in his bloody war: aznar, zapatero (afganisthan), blair, gordon brown, and others.

[kurydebarcelona]

the bush regime crimes, if not jutged, will devaluate the sence of justice everywere in the world, how we will judge any crime if this hard core criminals are not prossecuted?

[GabrielGZNH]

I hope so.. I am an Atheist..

[callieland]

so being an atheist means that you hate christians?

[GabrielGZNH]

Being an Atheist only means I do not believe in any God...

But, as an Atheist, I do not give Christians, Muslims or any member of any other faith a pass on their ridiculous, and often dangerous superstitions..

[itachi155]

actually athiest do have a god..its science you belive science is the cause of everthing the all power, evolution which actually means u kinda worship science as god. i dont mean u have a kidn of church for science or pray to it, or anything like that.

[GabrielGZNH]

itachi155, The word Atheist only says one thing about a person.. It only means the lack of a belief in any God.. And Atheist can deny gravity, or evolution.. An Atheist even believe in magic.. But very few Atheists do, because people who do not believe in the supernatural, of course don't believe in God either..

I would never make a law against believing in religion. I would only try to prove by example that religion is not true, and not necessary. Because understanding reality is important.

[itachi155]

I am sorry if i offended you, i have a few athiest friens and they all basically say science is like their god. I aksed them what do you belive in? What do you think causes everything? Evolution? how the planets (more specifaclly earth) came to be? and they all said science.

Sorry again

[GabrielGZNH]

itachi155, you didn't offend me, you were just factually incorrect about Atheist.. When someone they believe in science, they mean.. They believe in the scientific method for discovering new things.. Taking evidence into account, testing your results to see if you have made any mistakes, and allowing other people to see your work, so corrections can be made.. I don't think science makes the world go around, but if I want to find out how it goes around, the scientific method is the best way..

[GabrielGZNH]

itachi155, you seem to be just unable to understand that some people have no belief in a supernatural being.. To call science my God, you might as well call logic and reason my God...

If you really do consider logic, reason, and science Gods, than that explains to me why you avoid them like the plague..

"You shall have no other Gods before me"

Isn't that what your book says.. So you are forced to worship only the supernatural, irrational, and illogical..

[itachi155]

How can you say its irrational or illogical? Just because you cant see it or hear it doesn't mean its not real.

[itachi155]

I get that you think you must see or feel it, but some things you know are there but are intangible, for example love, i belive in both science and god, i belive science the way others do, the molecules, compounds, chemicals, gravity, the way rain happends and what not, but i belive god made them that way.

[GabrielGZNH]

Love is important to our survival.. It is what forms connections with people we need to trust, and be loyal to.. But there is nothing magical about Love.. You and I know that he feeling "love" comes from Chemicals released in the brain.. The same as anger, fear, and jealousy.. These emotions all have their place in human survival... Emotions are like software on the brain.. Would you say that Windows, Linux, or Youtube are intangible?

[GabrielGZNH]

You say you believe in science.. But when science contradicts religious stories and dogma (which it does), you choose religion over science.. When science proves that the Earth is billions of year old it refutes religious creation myths.. When exorcism is no longer the answer to mental disorders, religion has no answers.. And when religious conflict covers the Earth, we wonder why questioning these ancient superstitions is off limits..

[itachi155]

I dont know if i would say windows and linux and etc are intangible, if i ad to choose i would say yes, and when religion and conflict collide i do agree with religion, my religion, it doens;t belive in exorcism or demons that posses people.

[GabrielGZNH]

Look, I dont have time to refute every individuals interperiation of their own religion.. The point is not exorcism, or astrology, or voodoo are wrong.. The issue is non scientific solutions to real world problems..

Of course you side with your own religion whenever conflicts arise.. Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Unitarians, or ANY faith, will stick to their own dogmas in the face of Evidence, rationality, and reason.. Because that is the nature of faith.. That is the problem!

[itachi155]

ok and you will side with your beliefs as well

[GabrielGZNH]

itachi155, If there were evidence.. If there was.. Logical, provable, testable evidence that the world was only 6,000 years old (for example).. Or that Humans were created in 1 day in the Garden of Eden.. Or a World wide flood that killed off all the living creatures on this earth except for two of each species on a boat with a 600 year old man.. I would take that evidence into account, and it would be accepted as scientific theory.. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[itachi155]

Yes but see, the proof there is that god said so, but since you dont belive in that you have no proof.

[GabrielGZNH]

You must realize how weak that argument is.. The proof that God exists is "He said so"..

An invisible creature, that we have no evidence of, who can not be contacted for questioning, wrote in a book, that we can't prove he wrote, and described the creation of the Earth in a way that does not seem accurate when you investigate scientifically..

Is this the kind of evidence which would be upheld in court?

[itachi155]

"the creation of the Earth in a way that does not seem accurate when you investigate scientifically" there you go scientifaclly but god doesn't obey scientific laws, i have questions of my own which i dont understand,

How can be there always, never born or created jsut always existed, before the creation of the heaven and earth etc where was he? how can he exist, if theres nowhere to exist"

Scientifically it makes no sense, but religiously it doesn't have to. You just know...

[GabrielGZNH]

Don't you understand how stupid that sounds.. I really didn't want to start insulting you right now.. But.. "Scientifically it makes no sense, but religiously it doesn't have to. You just know..."

You don't care whether you are right or wrong.. The Religious answer is just an easy way to shut your brain off and just say "Whatever, God did it" and spend the rest of your life without learning a single thing..

If everyone in the world thought like you, we'd learn nothing!

[itachi155]

well actually most ppl do think like me, i think that out of all religions only 3 or 4 dont belive in god, the rest belive in god or gods.

[GabrielGZNH]

You have to understand, that science is NOT trying to prove religion wrong.. Science is just trying to find the truth.. Trying to find, which medicines work, how DNA works, how the body grows, how the Earth has changed over time, etc.. And how we can use this information to help others, to help ourselves..

The reason why Science contradicts religion so much, is because Religion claims to have the answers before doing any real research.

[itachi155]

which brings me back to what i said in the begining

I belive in both, i belive in all scientific beliefs, yet i belive god made it that way.

[GabrielGZNH]

itachi155, So you have no religious beliefs? Only that God exists, and that God, created the universe? You understand the scientific evidence which refutes the creation stories of almost every religion?

just to clear things up.. Which religion would you consider yourself part of?

[itachi155]

I am a muslim, i thought u knew that, guess you didn't

why?

[GabrielGZNH]

I thought you might be, but I wasen't sure.. I guess I could have gone back and checked your past comments...

I doubt you are saying that you don't believe in Genesis.. Even though, if you understand Biology, Archeology, Geology etc.. You should know that these stories are just myths.. But do you also believe in the prophet Muhammad speaking to God etc.. and why?

[itachi155]

lol because god said so

[GabrielGZNH]

itachi155, your mind like a brick.. You don't care if you're right or wrong.. You don't need what you believe to make sense. You just want the easy answers. you can say "God says so" or "God did it". but really you don't know anything.. And do you want to see the result of your kind of thinking?.. Look at the Muslim world, it is still in the stone age, it is at war with everyone. And has made no progress in the last 1300 years.

[GabrielGZNH]

That is what happens when you divorce yourself from reality.

[GabrielGZNH]

You said if you had to choose, you would say that software like Linux and Windows are intangible. But they mean nothing without some sort of hardware, they don't do anything on their own. The same is with the brain, and with consciousness. Adrenaline is just a chemical, but when put in the human (or Ape, or Cat, or almost any other animal) body, produces amazing results. Some chemicals make us feel happy, some make us feel love. You believe the soul is something separate from the body, I do not.

[GabrielGZNH]

callieland is a total coward.. He sent me a private message, I responded and made him look like an idiot.. So he sent me his address, asked me to go to his house and fight him, than blocked me...

[ljrow49]

If Obama lets the criminals walk we will know he is one too. It should be the first thing he does. My money says he is in the same club.

[fl00ders]

Because they're all guilty right? Nice leaps of logic you're making there...

[GWBushsuks]

just imagine, 500 Americans picked up against their will,sent to a base for terrorist crimes. then after years of incarceration

released from prison

after they determined not to be a terrorist threat but indeed inocent after all.

how would this unjustified fact change your own perception about giving that same Country who destroyed your life, family, existence,the type of payback equal for what they did ...to you??

this is how terrorist are created.

this is the Bush/Cheney legacy.

[ljrow49]

Very well said.

Who are the real terrorists?.....

[kend626]

Cheney on Guantanamo:

"These are not American citizens, they are not subject to, nor do they have the same rights as an American citizen does, vis-a-vis the government"

Is he saying that we, as American citizens, are granted our rights from the government?

What arrogance. He needs to read the constitution. Human rights, are birth rights regardless of your geographical location.

[Tokagawa89]

I wish someone could just "neutralize" him. Lol!

[t4705mb6]

Why would we want to prosecute mass murderers?

Wouldn't that just be silly?

The murder of MILLIONS of innocent people, the fact that Cheney & Bush designed & orchestrated thr 911 attacks is so "last week"!

We should just let these SWINE go & enjoy the BILLIONS they have stolen. We could even make them U.S. "heros", lie to ourselves even MORE!

After all, isn't lying, cheating & stealing just the "American Way"?

Just add mass murder to the lessons you teach your kids.

AHH, "Family Values"!

[blackiron60]

Whenever political expediency comes before the law, republics decay a little more and slip still further towards monarchy.

[GetMeThere1]

Obama will do nothing. He simply can't afford to; any serious policy actions except those dealing with the economic problem will be seen as actions AGAINST the US interests--at the cost of taking attention away from the economy.

It would be a hoot to see Bush or Cheney get arrested by another country. Ultimately, worldwide success of democracy and the rule of law depends upon DEMONSTRATING THAT NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW!

[NatureLegalized]

Some advice on what to do as citizens lacking the power in/of governance=lawmaking has been given in this vid!!!

[ahassan5]

'what u gonna with those prisoner?' - the Dick of all Dicks.

Should have thought about that before you locked them up Mr Dick!

You know why they can't be put on trial? Because they will come out clean - which will embarrass the whole US government.

This whole war on terror is a propaganda.

Obama should investigate Bush and Mr Dick face.

[sexdrugsRnR]

rem watergate? of course there will be a pardon.

[Daltonius1]

Real News! When I'm old enough to have a paycheck, you'll have my support!

[madebutante]

Please petition for a special prosecutor for King George.

democratsDOTTCOMM/special-pros­ecutor-for-bush-war-crimes

[MuslimGhost]

the democRATS arent going to prosecute anyone, they are just as implicated in the war crimes and corruption as the republiCONS

[GabrielGZNH]

Muslims are he Mormons of the 6th century.. Religion is for idiots.. And if you think the Republicans and Democrats are evil, Islam is the worse of all three major faiths.

[madebutante]

So what do you propose to do about it? Sit around and whine? There are good people in our government like Gravel, Paul, Kucinich, Nadler - perfect, no? If you aren't taking part of the process, then what are u doing? Direct Action? Civil disobedience? Rioting like in Greece/Europe against fascism? Organizing together is the only option if we are to even get a chance to win. Come on! Let'S DO IT. IT'S OUR FUCKING COUNTRY . LET'S TAKE IT BACK. Who's streets?

[MuslimGhost]

Actually the only way to set these people free is with Islam. It removes from them the bondages of this world which are used to enslave the minds and bodies of people. As long as there is a continous desire and supply for sex, drugs, and other animal lusts, the masses will never aspire to any action (unless there supply of basic needs is threatened). The only solution is to enlighten them with knowledge, and to free them from their captors by taking away the mechanisms of slavery.

[mcalien24]

"taking away the mechanisms of slavery"

with organized religion????

that itself is a system of slavery based on a fabricated supernatural authority. Human beings spirtiual side, the mystery which can never be solved by empiricism, is that which is exploited by organized religion.

"animal lusts/sex"

we are animals - and to subdue those natural instincts with the threat of an imaginary revenge (hell), is the crime.

and look at islamic countries...not one is a democracy. not one

[MuslimGhost]

See you are a perfect example of what im talking about. You believe you are free but in fact you are doing nothing more than regurgitating the pseudo-intellectual darwinist religion that is force-fed to the masses in order to remove from them their inate belief in God. This takes away the foundations of morality and allows their masters to set up new false gods.. where everyone is given the delusion of control and power, while in fact they are trapped- like a hamster running on a wheel endlessly

[MuslimGhost]

We are not Animals. Organized religion is not slavery, it is freedom. Freedom from the narrowness of this world to the vastness of the hereafter. And finally Islam is not run by democracy. It is run by a democratically elected Khilafah, who should be pious and god-fearing and knowledgable, and after that the people accept his authority. Democracy means the people dictate the laws instead of God. And there is no democracy in the west either, only the failed illusion of one.

[mcalien24]

i agree, no democracy in the west.

but if you actually believe it was god who made those laws that you believe and not man...then youll believe anything.

living ur life for the hereafter is a waste of ur life

to do what is morally right, not because i seek the approval of an imaginary character, to avoid an imaginargy revenge...but because i choose to...is what i call freedom

those who live out of fear, as u do, will never be free

[Neville6000]

Please pick up a copy of 'The Trouble With Islam Today' by Irshad Manji: you need to make Islam better.

[mcalien24]

i never said i was free...but i did imply that democracy is more condusive to freedom...

in the US, we dont have freedom or democracy...we have corporate ownership of everything.

i never mentioned anything about darwinism. rather i made clear that science/empiricism cannot fully explain the mystery which organized religion exploits.

and morality is not created by religion. religion proves morality is relative...many norms when the texts were written are considered morally wrong now.

[GabrielGZNH]

Does everyone seem my point about Islam now???

... Go ahead, take back those thumbs down points..

[AbtinX]

What is your point? Show some respect and try to understand those who aren't like you. That is what you are accusing religious people of not doing after all

[GabrielGZNH]

I am not asking religious people to respect my ideas just because they are different.. They can critize my beliefs.. I don't dislike Islam or christianity because they question my beliefs, I dislike them, because I think their beliefs are flase, and harmful to society..

[AbtinX]

Actually, you have no critique of Islam as a religion or christanity, you are just insulting religious people calling them superstitious morons and so forth. So you are actually insulting religious people. That's actually quite horrible, do you feel this way about everyone who doesn't share your opinions? Is a person who doesn't like your favourite colour or dish a moron? Hahahahaha. Just some show some basic respect, these are people after all just like you

[GabrielGZNH]

I have many critiques of many different religions.. When I speak of Religion in general, I mainly just attack the idea that these people pretend to know the deepest secrets of the universe, and have the answer to all the worlds problems.. But in reality, their solutions fail miserably, and the three major religions Islam, Christianity, and Judaism were created in a time when we knew very little about the world we live in.. And so, were ignorant of real world causes of the problems we face..

[AbtinX]

Common your more religious than you think! The name Gabriel comes from Jibrael, the angel that revealed the message of Allah to the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. If you truly oppose religion you could start by choosing a less religious first name, maybe Hank or Clint :D And judaism isn't a major religion (compared to other larger ones that is, hinduism and bhuddism). Islam was the start of a golden age in Asia just so that is said, along with confucianism and taoism before it.

[GabrielGZNH]

Yes, I have a Muslim name, my father is Egyptian, I was named after his younger brother.. Who is still in Egypt, with my Grandmother, his brothers and sisters, and my cousins.. But that does not make me religious.. We don't choose our first names, and I wouldn't change mine even if I could.. Of course the role of the Angel Gabriel goes much farther back in the Jewish MYTHOLOGY which is the basis for the Abrahamic religions..

[AbtinX]

Fair enough :)

[itachi155]

Now see you think islam and christianity is false...fine, i belive islam is true, and i hope thats fine with you. you stated ur beliefs and i stated mine, why cant all people just say that and move on rather then keep insulting and fighting and arguing over the internet where nothing can be done? Atleast i know some people can just say what you and i say and move on.

Peace.

[NatureLegalized]

As long as the power of governance=lawmaking can be kept from the "served"...

Ni4D

[sailfished]

This is the problem ,U.S. citizens have to take charge of the corruption and crimes committed by our own . If we dont we give ammunition to the globalist world court crowd to "ride to the rescue"Those who are watching the real news and are buying into their supposed neutrality should think again, Since the sheeple of the united states have capitulated their demand to restore and honour our constitution the result will be a sad day for freedom loving people around the world!

[EvenMaxx]

If these men are not prosecuted, then what is to discourage other future leaders from abusing power. These men profited heavily from the wat, nobody is investigating that. Cheney makes money from more people being in prison.

[iKnowYouSeeThis]

There is a misconception here... a King is a sovereign, a President is a servant.

[slantythecamel]

If only.

[democracyisdead]

It would be interesting to interview the members of Bohemian Grove vs. CFR, and find out what they think about prosecuting Bush/Cheney.

I think the CFR members might back it.