@videofreakcologne Indeed. The instructionset and registers supported 32-bit, but the 68000 itself still had a 16-bit data bus. The custom chips were also 16-bit.
I guess you could see it as 32-bit if you're optimistic. Same as the Intel 386SX, it was a 32-bit system in the sense that it could run 32-bit software. Or the 8088 which ran 16-bit software, while it was partly 8-bit.
Right on! If you have to multiply something by sixteen, and you're working in base sixteen, it's conceptually (much) the same as multiplying by ten in base ten, you just (shift and) add zero. So a base pointer of $01FF points to $1FF0. I find that pretty easy to cope with, so for me all the furure about segmented addressing is overdone.
WOW, running three programs at once in 1985, that's incredible multi-tasking, even my Mac Book Pro can't handle that NOW, I wish I had an Amiga back then, I only had a C-64 computer which I loved!
@stanfamily Because it had no real purpose outside of the home-micro market and also because today's PCs are around a million times as powerful in terms of raw compute performance.
@vapourmile It's funny because that's what you really think.
I mean, if you can't think of purpose for a multitasking computer with video and sound capability, you should probably stop using the one you use to make youtube posts, because it is one.
@HRHShawnPendragone The only thing you have finished is providing outright proof that you're a cretinous, moronic asshole with nothing witty or worthwhile to say about anything. You are the epitome of what put me off the Amiga by 1987, most of its supporters are hostile arrogant pricks. Hardly an advert for the platform. Go fantasize you have a girlfriend.
@HRHShawnPendragone This kind of playground mud-slinging happens very often on this service. One can't help wondering what you think you'll achieve with it? You aren't going to win any converts with insults, you aren't going to win any friends. Tell me, what ever is the point of this?
@HRHShawnPendragone It's hard to imagine how you could be both so opinionated and so wrong. The Amiga used a single-threaded CPU which could only perform a single processing task at one time. The 8086 PC CPU had been a 16bit chip since 1976.
@HRHShawnPendragone It's hard to imagine how you could be both so opinionated and so wrong. The Amiga used a single-threaded CPU which could only perform a single processing task at one time. The 8086 PC CPU had been a 16bit chip since 1976.
@vapourmile - the 8086 wasn't released until 1978. Furthermore, IBM PCs didn't actually use any of the 16-bit intel chips until what, the AT, in 1984? The 8088 was the main chip for the longest time. Also, x86 design was very 8-bit like. Implicit-to-heck instructions, tiny lettered register file, poor or non-existent program relative counter code. Bizarre non-linear addressing. As for multitasking, Half of the things demoed above were done by the custom chips in parallel with the CPU.
I don't think an argument based on the minutia of the CPU will reveal anything telling. I don't think this post says too much since this kind of jargon obsessed nonsense may make you feel like you occupy some sort of technical high ground, but it isn't persuasive of anything.
@vapourmile - Jargon obsessed? I'm not the one who said 'single-threaded CPU'. Anyhow, if you dislike jargon, here's what I said in plain, everyday layman's terms: the x86 architecture _is a throwback to the 8-bit era_. The IBM PC set the _home_ computer industry back almost a decade*. Amigas were like minicomputers writ small, PCs were like C64s writ large. (With dumber floppy and hard drives. a 1541 is more like an I/O channel on a mainframe than an IDE HD is)
@LordRenegrade Listen, my patience for this petty argumentation You Tube attracts is long worn thin. I mentioned single thread, because it is a fact. Your metaphorical take on the platforms is purely your opinion, like most opinions, it is light on facts. I can program 64s, Amigas and PCs in Assembler, I know how they are designed, but starting an argument about what is essentially a moot point isn't something I have much time for.
@vapourmile - you're right that it's rather a moot point right now, but then again, that would make your comment (opinion) regarding Amigas not being cutting edge back then _also_ a moot point. So, are we going to discuss it or not? Note that I am also an x86 and 68k assembler programmer, having started with 68k and going to x86. Going from being able to freely address anything in a 32-bit environment to having to worry about segmentation boundaries and such was extremely disturbing.
It is hard to imagine you became a programmer of any repute if you found a concept as simple to grasp as segmented memory "extremely disturbing". It's a lot less intellectually 'disturbing' than, say, encoding a floating point number or drawing a straight line between two points. How ever did you manage if you felt multiplying by ten, then adding, was a worry... when you're entering into the numerical world of computer programming? And how often did you have array dimensions >64k anyway? Never?
@vapourmile - an assembly programmer huh? You shift left by FOUR, multiplying by SIXTEEN, to normalize a pointer in PC-land. While that matters little today, your legacy code must be hideously slow and rather crashy if you're multiplying by ten instead of shifting left by four(x16).
At least five of my larger projects required arrays of 64k. How do you propose to hold a highres laced screen in memory if it's deeper than two bits? (even sooner in PAL!)
@LordRenegrade I left the 'multiply by ten' there to see if your tech knowledge was up to figuring out why I wrote ten and not sixteen. My guess is if you ever did much Assembly, like I did, you'd have seen it without thinking. A bit like how I spelled "bail" wrong.... you don't criticise the little errors if you immediately surmise what the writer intends or is referencing. Which would be.... ?
@vapourmile - I thought "bale" might be a UK thing, to be honest. I'm from Canada, and only know a handful of UK-specific.
...The "h" you left off the end? Or 0x from the beginning? Or however you like to tell your compiler/assembler hex? Some environments liked dollar signs. I *think* some of the C64 assemblers didn't support base 10 at all, and all bare numbers were hex. I could be mistaken on that last bit though.
The troubles caused by segmented addressing are grossly exaggerated, usually by Amiga owners in fact who don't even understand the ramifications of it anyway, which was basically nothing. Like I said, if you can't tackle an intentionally simple concept such as segmented addressing then programming is not a job I recommend because you're going to bale before you even get as far as encoding floating point numbers, which is nowhere.
@vapourmile I didn't find FP numbers that hard at all. The only gotcha is that there's a strange offset to the exponent, but once I read that paragraph of motorola's handbook a second time, it was fairly clear.
@LordRenegrade I didn't know about this? Sign, exponent, mantissa... the only 'strange' thing that happens is the bigger the magnitude of the exponent, the less accurate its representation.
@vapourmile - (btw, I did not mean to denigrate C64s in my previous comment comparing them to PCs. It's a fine machine for the time and was extremely affordable in an age when a computer was more like a car in cost. Also I may sound more confrontational than I intended; I feel a bit angry about how a modern PC is like a classic Amiga and it's called "progress". PCI+plug and play -> Zorro+Autoconfig. DLLs/.so re-entrant libraries -> libs:. Codecs->Datatypes. GPT part -> RDB part etcetcetc)
It's interesting you can be angry that the PC is 'like' the Amiga when: The ISA bus and its expansion architecture existed before the Amiga's Zorro was even on the drawing board, so it hardly came from there. If anything Zorro was an attempt at gaining the third party leverage the PC already had from its own expansion bus, which was formidable, again, before the Amiga was even invented.
@vapourmile - ISA did not have any real plug and play capabilities at all until much, much later. In it's earliest form, it's basically an extension of the 8088's bus. Don't you _love_ configuring com port/par port/FDC/HDC jumpers, especially when the silkscreen is wrong and the manual included was for a different product?
And then there's always the fun of the nasty MBR design. Isn't it great when you plug in a hard drive and it's primary prtn overrides your logical prtn and D becomes F?
@LordRenegrade Then again, I don't think the Amiga nailed it either. It was a long time before graphics cards of any kind started to appear on it, and when they did, software usually had to be written exclusively for each card it was to support. Port setting again, wasn't something that bothered me in the least. If you're a techie, it's all part of the fun, like programming or any other technical problem that's needs solving. If not, we'd all be out of a job cos everyone would find it all easy.
@LordRenegrade Come to think of it, I have never seen a working PnP device on an Amiga and at first glance I can't see a working demonstration of one on You Tube.
@vapourmile - right. Don't need to add zero though, bitwise/logical left shift will shift 'em in.
As for plug and play, I borrowed a A2232 to play with once (7-port serial board). You just plug it in, and increment the serial port device number to the port you want to use. An A590 just plugs in and goes. You do have to partition the hard drive, of course, but that's standard. My X-Surf board also just plugged in and went. Just about all accelerators/memboards are AUTOCONFIG.
@LordRenegrade Don't even need to do that on an 8086 because the chip circuitry scales the address pointer automatically for you. Some of the most sophisticated rendering software available still arranges the pixels in small square packets too, so it's not strictly so that you have to have large arrays for high-resolution screens. They're kept small in bucket-renders to leverage redundancy. Certainly far smaller than the 256x256 that would fill 64k.
@vapourmile - what, like larrabee? wasn't that cancelled? I guess a lot of 2D games are dealing in tiles too. That could lead to some rather nasty surprises with VESA hardware though. VESA pages are at the discretion of the hardware manufacturer, and having a tile intersect a page boundary would not be fun as page changes were not fast. Also, weren't most renderers at that time (like doom) vertical? that's fine in mode 13h, since as you pointed out, fits in a segment, but in VESA...ouch
@LordRenegrade I meant choices made at the software layer when I referred to the bucket render style. Premium programs use it, one I like is Mental Ray: You can search YouTube for "Mental Ray Interior Rendering" and "Volume Caustics in Mental Ray". These are just show-pieces for just a few features though. To see buckets in operation search "Vray render farm". I'd say these were about 20pixels square and are designed to take advantage of redundancy in the pipeline and processor parallelism.
@LordRenegrade Just to put something out there to get your teeth into though, it goes without saying that all these programs feature physical models of light that is not possible to reproduce on any Amiga product. They are supersets of results possible on Amiga, both in terms the physical effects represented and geometric complexity. I'd say also that this has always been true, at all points in the Amiga's history: It's the truth of the Amiga's failure.
@vapourmile - which programs are we talking about? I hope we're not comparing 2011 programs against 1985 ones. I'd imagine even if they're 1995 ones, they're running in 386 protected mode, granting linear memory access. Or possibly even long mode if they're from 2011.
@LordRenegrade No problem, congrats on moving. Yeah that's right, they do have linear access, I mean they have it and they still address memory in small rectangular tiles because it's faster that to do way. So even given linear addressing, today it's thought of as better Not to do it that way. And actually I thought you might just like those CGI examples, it wasn't really part of the point except those examples Use tile rendering, and still intentionally avoid linear addressing.
@LordRenegrade So in effect what I'm saying is that although there are those who claim to prefer a linear address space, there are arguments in the details of pipeline optimisation which show it is unwise to traverse your data set that way. The benefits of a linear address is normally a matter of convenience rather than good algorithm design.
@LordRenegrade ...and I can certainly think of example I have seen where programmers have treated the X and Y axes each a one straight line and could have improved their program by dividing the screen into rectangular chunks to better take advantage of all-round spacial adjacency. Even a linear data set, say a sound file, would usually be split up today because of DSP matters that give way to Vector/SIMD/Parallel processing.
@LordRenegrade So, yeah, I think I'm creating a tautology here but I'm arguing "Yeah, but having a linear address space is a Bad thing because programmers will use it, for reasons of intellectual manageability, but end up writing worse algorithms". Usually once you've finished with an item of data, although it's next-door neighbour is the easiest place to visit next, it often isn't the best. Sometimes it's so hard to know where to go next, such as with Intel's i860, it destroys the platform.
@vapourmile Ahaha "The truth of the amiga's failure" was that some CGI programs were a bit duff?
Here's me thinking it's because they lost nearly 400 mil because of a ballsup near the 93 holiday season, as well as a change in management that decided to take four years of R&D effort across three product lines and shitcan it.
@vapourmile Which is interesting because you've seen none of it. Don't you have some violent threats? Want my address so you can beat me up like you asked for the other day? You used the PM system too, like a pussy.
DLLs: Link libraries, like most of the things people who can't program and do not have a substantial technical knowledge sometimes attribute, incorrectly, to the Amiga, linking, even dynamically, has been a part of high level scalable software design since LONG before the Amiga, before the PC even. So again, you cannot possibly argue... well unless people built a time machine... that these idea are attributable or exclusive to or stolen from the Amiga.
@vapourmile - The only microcomputer that I've heard of that made any significant usage of _dynamically_ linked libraries -- real ones, with re-entrant code -- was OS9 for the TRS-80. Which wasn't even it's native OS, but something you had to buy from a third party, like GEOS. (and it had no GUI. and was limited to a half meg of ram) I don't care if some minis in the 70s could do X, Y, or Z; that's not the sort of thing you have in your study. For $1300. In 1985.
@vapourmile - also, my point, and pet peeve, (yes yes, I really shouldn't make pets of those..) is not that the Amiga _invented_ these things, but _brought it to home computers_. As a single package. Then IBM came along, saw Apple, Atari, Commodore, Sinclair, and co, and said, "People who are not us making computers??! The nerve! This will not do!!" and they released a single-tasking, lowest-bidder, developed-in-9-months heap of trash and swept the market away out of sheer arrogance.
@vapourmile - I mean datatypes as in sys:classes/datatypes. Not as in double or int or DWORD/ULONG or such. I guess by 'comment removed' means that you figured that out.
Not that any of this matters in the long run, I guess. It seems like Apple and ARM are back and hungry for revenge and plan to replace the entire market with little tiny squares with no keyboards or mice.
I remember getting our Amiga, the graphics blew our mind! After having a Spectrum for a few years, this was some serious gaming kit. Mighty games like Zool, Magic Pockets, Another World, Lotus Esprit, Cannon Fodder and Football Manager.
What truly amazes me is that you can setup an Amiga today and do many of the same things we do on current PCs (Mac and Windows) with nearly the same efficiency. Now I'm not saying as a practical alternative but simply the fact that you CAN. That speaks VOLUMES to the OS's efficiency and hardware design. I know for a FACT Microsoft and Apple pulled the Amiga apart to learn as much as they could. To this day we still see features being touted as "new" from MS and Apple that are Amiga-centric.
@pixelsmack They didn't, and didn't need to. All the circuitry in the Amiga was of a level from which a competent electronics engineer could surmise similar designs simply by reading the hardware guide.
if you watch the demo closely, you'll notice a feature that absolutely no computer had then and since and was very comfortable to use : draggable screens.
OSX has "Spaces" which does an even cooler gag with sliding the screen off in a direction. OSX Lion is adding even more to this. Something very nearly the same as Amiga's grab-and-slide. Still, how many years did it take? Too long. I miss my Amiga. Thank god emulation is fast.
@vapourmile Say it to me or don't say it at all. Typical behavior from a spineless, compulsive liar who can't even get his own backstory straight. I mean what kind of bizzare comic book timeline does
"I was leading team of CGI professionals when the amiga was current but the PC was better at graphics while a child who was given two generations of amiga, during the 80s I was also a programmer even though thats a completely different field"
@richardmaudsley77 Incorrect: It's you who can't make sense of my work-history. Not that I'm anymore interested in discussing it with you. There was a time when I thought you were an inteligent guy masquerading as a bit of git out of boredom, but since you are inescapably trapped in a mode of obnoxious rubbish I can only conclude that your moronic bahaviour is in fact, the genuine article and that you really are just an ugly low-life piece of trash.
@richardmaudsley77 It will be of no interest to you I expect but it has so long been established that disreputable purile slanging matches are of use to precisely nobody that this type of communication is cited under the computer misuse act. PS. The remark in quotation marks is not actualy a quotation, it's just something you have written in your normal style: If somebody doesn't agree with you, slag them off. Genius, I don't think. Plus, you're the one lying about me, and, as for spineless...
@vapourmile I also just looked up your e-lawyer "computer misuse act" and found nothing saying I can't call you on your bullshit schitzo lies. Man the fuck up and deal with it.
@ZZombyWooff Yeah by todays standard but back in the 80's this thing was cutting edge. I bought an Amiga 500 when it came out around '88 and it was incredible. Graphics and music were stunning, with tons of games. Marble Madness, Falcon (F16) and FA-18 Interceptor were incedible. I still have fond memories of the beauty.
@masere come on. what's wrong with you. I said "HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA WHAT A CRAPPY COMPUTER", not HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA WHAT A CRAPPY COMPUTER. there is a difference, I bet you can find it. But everyone drinks too much red bull and all those horrible toxins, and so they can't concentrate on details.
...and also since there were never more than a few people involved in the discussion, and most of them were not capable of having a discussion with someone who didn't agree with them nor confirmed what they already believed, this line has hit the buffers. I was going to write explaining why the Amiga was not more successful, not much point of that here though as you say.
@richardmaudsley77 "Cocker"? Is this your idea of humour? Your characteristic response to other users, of vulgarity or accusations of lying, is making any sort of conversation with you most unpleasant. I have alluded to this, more than once I think, and yet you still persist in your obnoxiousness. Do you believe being vicious makes you superior to those you're vicious towards? Or is it that it feels safe to shout your mouth off knowing you can't get into a fist-fight for it?
@richardmaudsley77 Either way, it's cowardly and boring and fails to make me feel inferior, if that is what you intend. And since this is clearly how you intend to proceed, I conclude that any further interaction with you is to be a complete waste of effort. Why not seek out some of the many, many You Tube users who love to derail any discussion into a trade of juvenile put-downs that wouldn't grace a football terrace?
Does anyone know what that line demo is runningunder workbench? Was it one of the workbench disks? I thought I had them all but cant seem to find these demos? I have Workbench 1.3 so did they remove these demos after version 1.0?
@Sipie007 It was a standard demo on the workbench. I had it on my 1.3 so I don't know why you don't have it on yours. Perhaps yours is a copy of someone else's who had deleted it?
The thing is systems like the Amiga, C64 and all those back then are classic systems that should be remembered and I think its great that these are living on not only with people collecting the original hardware but also in emulation. I work as a IT Technician and I need to know my stuff about computer hardware and honestly to say the Amiga keeps up with modern hardware is just silly. Im afraid the Amiga was overtaken by the PC in the early 90s and thats comming from a Amiga fan.
@Sipie007@Sipie007 Well, if that's the date you'd set it at, I definitely agree you're an Amiga fan. It's about the same date as rm7 would have it. I wouldn't class myself as a "fan" of anything. I was a programmer in the eighties though and I was very excited about the Amiga on it's day of release. I'd place the year the PC overtook the Amiga as 1987. In crucial terms, such as compute performance, the Amiga never competed with the PC.
@vapourmile ...And now you've both been a CGI professional, a child, and a programmer in the exact same time period. Are you one of those nutters son?
Also "1987" is a dumb thing to say. VGA was a great standard for games, but was unaffordable for most for years. And how long did it take for a gravis ultrasound to show up and finally beat the paula chip?
@richardmaudsley77 Ah, how sad, and I thought we were beginning to get along! ; )
"...CGI professional, a child, and a programmer in the exact same time period".
...only the same time period insofar as it's my lifetime. My guess is you're making incorrect assumptions about the exact dates and my age. PS. I am Not your son.
@richardmaudsley77 You were doing so well, and now it's back to the insults. Listen, you'd probably help yourself, if, instead of hiding your cards and just trying to pummel me with profanity, you actually just had the balls to say what's on your mind. You can do that can't you?
@vapourmile you were a child when the A1200 came out, your dad had to buy you one. In the time between then and the amiga leaving the market (april 1994) you claim to have been both a programmer and a CGI professional leading an entire team.
Something there does not add up. Like say, any of it.
@richardmaudsley77 Ah... there you go. The bit(s) that don't add up are the bits where you've made assumptions and missed out on the truth. You have done this many times during this discussion and I'd suggest it would do your relationships no end of good if you checked out your version of the facts before hurling hurtful insults at people. It will make people begin to wonder if you're worth the bother.
@richardmaudsley77 Advice aside. My father didn't have to buy me an Amiga, he chose to. He's been buying me electronics since the seventies. In fact, my mother bought me a Lego set for Christmas last year, now I'm forty. My time as a professional began before I owned an Amiga, during the time I owned a 64 and wrote games for it. I became an animator in the late eighties since following computer graphics from when I was in junior school. I was a programmer in 1982 for the ZX81.
I've grown to expect you to take the antithetic route no matter what other people say rm7, so I'm not very interested in going further on this matter. The subject is the Commodore Amiga.
@vapourmile You're a dedicated little troll aren't you. A bit of an egotist as well, considering you think you know more about computers than NASA telemetrists (Who used amigas because PCs were too shite to do the job until 2003).
@richardmaudsley77 Yes and you're a proper little leaps-to-ridiculous-conclusions aren't you?
I must hand it to you Amiga worshippers though... the way you eke out all those thinly spread examples of Amigas being found in niche applications.
It's amazing isn't it? The Amiga, a simple child's electronic toy almost sophisticated enough to actually get used in a similar fashion to a fully functioning computer!
And look how important these stories have become as the fuel to teenage fantasies?
@vapourmile Do you know how long this argument has been going on for? I have been comming on here periodically for the past few months and your still having the same arguments lol. I mean honestly you really need to get a life because its like your on some sort of crusade or something. We all get that you think the amiga is crap and thats fine with me as your entitled to your own opinon but you keep banging on about it like a scratched record. Sorry to be so harsh but its getting boring!
@Sipie007 Quite right, it is getting boring, which is why I haven't said much about it for a week until recently. It could have been much less boring if I wasn't dealing with the uncommonly anti-social members of the You Tube service combined with the already uncommonly anti-social nature of the average Amiga / computer fanatic, leading to a slew of boring, crude, pointless, counter-productive remarks.
@vapourmile But if thats the case then isnt it time just to let it go? I know we had a good discussion over it and as you know I like the Amiga being how good it was placed with respect to most of the general consumers. But you came onto a video related to the Amiga computer which in turn would be viewed by alot of Amiga fans and then began to bash the machine so its to be expected that you would get attacked.. So yes its a shame that the discussion has gone bad but I think its just best left.
@Sipie007 It's a little like trying to explain to seventh day adventists that a short journey into fact demonstrates Evolution is a much better grounding in natural history than the Genesis book of the bible, which is basically a philosophical deduction rendered at a time before the tools to uncover the facts, by a people who were not to blame for simply not having a clue what they were talking about. This argument, also true, would also not last long set against other's ego-fantasies.
@vapourmile Lets not bring religion and science into it before a whole new argument starts with someone else lol. I know alot who are into retro computing and they like me view these classic computers wether it be speccy, C64 and Amiga as computers that should be remembered. They were successful especially in the UK and liked by alot of people. Abit like how some people like classic cars. My point is though let people like what they like because after all it wont make a difference to your life.
@vapourmile But for what its worth I respect your views and dont take any offense at what I say but my point is its like going to say a Man United Footy match against whatever your home team may be then instead of sitting with your fellow fans you sit in the Man untied section and proceed to shout how rubbish you think Man United are. By doing this your going have to expect to get abuse back. No offense to Man United just used them as a example lol. So anyway lets move on hey and all the best :)
@vapourmile Well thats up to you but your just going to go on forever then having the same arguments on here. I just dont see the logic in it and done see why you feel the need to change peoples views. Well up to you but I got better things to do :) all the best.
No, it was clearly around seven years ahead of the competition. It did sell, by the bucketload, in Europe, but Commodore totally fucked up the North American market, and Irving Gould was a disastrous financier for the company who sacked the only really good CEO Commodore had post-Tramiel (Thomas Rattigan). The Amiga was also ahead of its time: the market outside of business and games - huge now - was small at the time. The Amiga is the natural predecessor to the modern Apple Mac.
@richardmaudsley77 "VGA was a great standard for games" - I didn't think so back in the day! My family had an Acorn Archimedes which had similar graphics capabilities to the Amiga - and VGA seemed overly blocky. Of course, Archimedes and Amiga graphics seem blocky nowadays.
@ElBerto Why flag this comment as spam? I'd say it's moderate compared to many of the other remarks below. I've discovered since that You Tube is a swollen with miserable, petty, helpless veniality.
If you read this, wikipedia for "You Tube" and click to section 3.4 User Comments. Interesting to me how the final say combines "Confrontational" with "Ill informed". Know yourself?
@ElBerto What is the point in people like you? What do you achieve with these persistent attempts to undermine people? Does it make you feel important? Because it certainly doesn't make you important? I am willing to bet my life that you wouldn't have the balls to speak to me like that if we were in the same room. It's cowardly, counter productive and pointless.
Besides, the comment was not levelled at you it was levelled at the person who flagged your response.
@ElBerto I was backing what you wrote, and you're still trying to slag me down, imitating a million other users who give this service a bad name. Well done Mr Charisma, I won't be siding with you again.
What I'll do instead is urge you to try this: Google "You Tube Wiki", click on the You Tube Wikipedia web page and hyperlink to section '3.4 User comments'. It takes seconds to read. There: How does it feel to be you?
@vapourmile You wrote "@ElBerto Why flag this comment as spam?" i.e. asking why *I* flagged some comment as spam - which I didn't. "persistent attempts to undermine people?" - what attempts are those?
Is vapourmile some kind of automated troll-bot or a real person? He/it seems to get more bizarre and removed from reality with each post.
@richardmaudsley77 Well, I'll try to explain this a second time, although I'm expecting yet another shockingly cretinous piece of invective, so hey, please don't disappoint me: As I said, once, in the comment you were slagging me down for, I was actually backing you, only you had misunderstood what I wrote. Now, you could have said "Oh really? How's that?", which would have allowed me to clarify, but instead you posted another moronic attack insisting you'd understood what me, which you hadn't.
Is all this really worth arguing over? I mean come on we are 25 years on from the Amiga. The Amiga was a fantastic system back then and I still have mine and it still works. Back then the Amiga was ahead of the PC thats fact but to say the PC didnt catch up and over take the Amiga is just silly. The Amiga was great but was left to stagnate by commodore. richardmaudsley77 is right that PCs today can run Amiga software under emulation faster than the original hardware due to things like JIT.
new amiga coming out soon! check it out - search for amiga x1000 in your favourite search engine! can't wait to see this beast in action... just a few more months to go! xD
@djrikki2008 Don't suppose you know anything about the programmable XMos CPU do you? It sounds like an awesome idea and could be a momentous leap forward for technology, although then again, I might be imaging things that aren't real. Wish I had some facts. Can't wait to see it in action. I couldn't afford the betatest program
Been reading through the comments and sounds like some one has a axe to grind as far as the Amiga is concerned lol. Personally being I actually work in Computer hardward for my work its beyond me how anyone can say in 1985 PC hardware capabilities were better than the Amigas. I wouldnt say that till 87 - 88 and even then those PCs were not affordable for the general public. I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion but just as long as they dont state it as fact like someone has been doing!
@vapourmile Also we're not discussing anything at all because you have proven your inability to stay on topic or post relevant answers. This is now all about poking a stupid troll with a stick and having fun since this is the only thing that can be done with you.
@subrealms You're wasting your time of course since I don't care one bit what you think. And accusing my comments of being irrelevant while all you've been doing here is trying, and failing, to insult me personally is a quite hypocritical conclusion.
@subrealms More, factual, relevant, constructive additions to the discussion? When? On a technical note, you're wrong again, I haven't marked any of the remarks as spam. You can say anything you like here as far as I'm concerned. It must be other people who think what you are saying is spam.
@vapourmile I'm sorry your parents didn't love you enough to buy you an Amiga. I'm also sorry that I can only see and hear the discussions we make here, not the ones inside your head.
@subrealms This is more blue-sky stuff. I think it's in your head. If you must know, my dad bought both the Amigas I used. An A500 and an A1200. My friends had a variety of models.
@vapourmile First you were an adult working with a team of CGI professionals, now you admit to being a child with some low end models bought by his dad.
@richardmaudsley77 Q. Do you think this kind of remark contributes anything to the discussion? You're too busy trying to take pot shots at me. I was a child when dad bought the computers, then I went into CGI. I wasn't quite as succesful as my friends, but then I was always more techie than artist.
@richardmaudsley77 Personally I don't see how you can invalidate any point I've made based on how old I am since my age really doesn't have any influence at all on the outcome of this discussion. You're simply doing the same thing subrealms is, and Amiga users have always done: Attacking the character of the person who disagrees with you and not doing anything productive with the situation.
@richardmaudsley77 The architechtural problems with the amiga were that they didn't check memory before writing to it. It was done for speed, but meant if the memory failed then you'd get a guru meditation. Oddly enough though, todays PCs do check before writing, but they still crash. Funny eh? Also, the Amiga's OS (not workbench, workbench was elegant) could have been a lot better, which is one of the reason's why programmers wrote their own. The Amiga is still a valuable tool though, and fun!
@richardmaudsley77 So far you're showing all the hallmarks of Amiga fanaticism: Immature, arrogant, impassioned rather than reasoned. You attack people for holding an opinion that does not agree with your own.
@richardmaudsley77 Ok, if you want to play it your way for once: You're wrong. Whether something is right or wrong is a matter of fact. An opinion is a matter of perception. Two people can have different opinions without either of them being wrong. However, to pass opinions off as facts, or to confuse the two, as you are, is a matter of fact, and therefore you are wrong.
@videofreakcologne Indeed. The instructionset and registers supported 32-bit, but the 68000 itself still had a 16-bit data bus. The custom chips were also 16-bit.
I guess you could see it as 32-bit if you're optimistic. Same as the Intel 386SX, it was a 32-bit system in the sense that it could run 32-bit software. Or the 8088 which ran 16-bit software, while it was partly 8-bit.
Scalibq 4 weeks ago
Wow, people sure do get worked up over videos, lol.
AdamPDresch 2 months ago 4
Loved this computer. The arcade ports were hit or miss (they always looked fantastic, but some had terrible audio) but the exclusives were awesome.
scottvska 2 months ago
Heavy man!
RPKGameVids 2 months ago 5
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Right on! If you have to multiply something by sixteen, and you're working in base sixteen, it's conceptually (much) the same as multiplying by ten in base ten, you just (shift and) add zero. So a base pointer of $01FF points to $1FF0. I find that pretty easy to cope with, so for me all the furure about segmented addressing is overdone.
vapourmile 3 months ago
WOW, running three programs at once in 1985, that's incredible multi-tasking, even my Mac Book Pro can't handle that NOW, I wish I had an Amiga back then, I only had a C-64 computer which I loved!
hailherrosner 3 months ago
@hailherrosner There have been multi-tasking systems operating systems capable of running a lot more than three programs at once since 1965.
vapourmile 3 months ago
why isnt this computer in the market nowadays ??
stanfamily 3 months ago
@stanfamily Because it had no real purpose outside of the home-micro market and also because today's PCs are around a million times as powerful in terms of raw compute performance.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile It's funny because that's what you really think.
I mean, if you can't think of purpose for a multitasking computer with video and sound capability, you should probably stop using the one you use to make youtube posts, because it is one.
doritostheking 3 months ago
@HRHShawnPendragone I only used foul language because there are no kinder words to describe you.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@HRHShawnPendragone The only thing you have finished is providing outright proof that you're a cretinous, moronic asshole with nothing witty or worthwhile to say about anything. You are the epitome of what put me off the Amiga by 1987, most of its supporters are hostile arrogant pricks. Hardly an advert for the platform. Go fantasize you have a girlfriend.
vapourmile 3 months ago
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vapourmile 3 months ago
@HRHShawnPendragone This kind of playground mud-slinging happens very often on this service. One can't help wondering what you think you'll achieve with it? You aren't going to win any converts with insults, you aren't going to win any friends. Tell me, what ever is the point of this?
vapourmile 3 months ago
@HRHShawnPendragone It's hard to imagine how you could be both so opinionated and so wrong. The Amiga used a single-threaded CPU which could only perform a single processing task at one time. The 8086 PC CPU had been a 16bit chip since 1976.
vapourmile 4 months ago
@HRHShawnPendragone It's hard to imagine how you could be both so opinionated and so wrong. The Amiga used a single-threaded CPU which could only perform a single processing task at one time. The 8086 PC CPU had been a 16bit chip since 1976.
vapourmile 4 months ago
@vapourmile - the 8086 wasn't released until 1978. Furthermore, IBM PCs didn't actually use any of the 16-bit intel chips until what, the AT, in 1984? The 8088 was the main chip for the longest time. Also, x86 design was very 8-bit like. Implicit-to-heck instructions, tiny lettered register file, poor or non-existent program relative counter code. Bizarre non-linear addressing. As for multitasking, Half of the things demoed above were done by the custom chips in parallel with the CPU.
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
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vapourmile 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I don't think an argument based on the minutia of the CPU will reveal anything telling. I don't think this post says too much since this kind of jargon obsessed nonsense may make you feel like you occupy some sort of technical high ground, but it isn't persuasive of anything.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - Jargon obsessed? I'm not the one who said 'single-threaded CPU'. Anyhow, if you dislike jargon, here's what I said in plain, everyday layman's terms: the x86 architecture _is a throwback to the 8-bit era_. The IBM PC set the _home_ computer industry back almost a decade*. Amigas were like minicomputers writ small, PCs were like C64s writ large. (With dumber floppy and hard drives. a 1541 is more like an I/O channel on a mainframe than an IDE HD is)
* = arguably even more.
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
@LordRenegrade Listen, my patience for this petty argumentation You Tube attracts is long worn thin. I mentioned single thread, because it is a fact. Your metaphorical take on the platforms is purely your opinion, like most opinions, it is light on facts. I can program 64s, Amigas and PCs in Assembler, I know how they are designed, but starting an argument about what is essentially a moot point isn't something I have much time for.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - you're right that it's rather a moot point right now, but then again, that would make your comment (opinion) regarding Amigas not being cutting edge back then _also_ a moot point. So, are we going to discuss it or not? Note that I am also an x86 and 68k assembler programmer, having started with 68k and going to x86. Going from being able to freely address anything in a 32-bit environment to having to worry about segmentation boundaries and such was extremely disturbing.
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
It is hard to imagine you became a programmer of any repute if you found a concept as simple to grasp as segmented memory "extremely disturbing". It's a lot less intellectually 'disturbing' than, say, encoding a floating point number or drawing a straight line between two points. How ever did you manage if you felt multiplying by ten, then adding, was a worry... when you're entering into the numerical world of computer programming? And how often did you have array dimensions >64k anyway? Never?
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - an assembly programmer huh? You shift left by FOUR, multiplying by SIXTEEN, to normalize a pointer in PC-land. While that matters little today, your legacy code must be hideously slow and rather crashy if you're multiplying by ten instead of shifting left by four(x16).
At least five of my larger projects required arrays of 64k. How do you propose to hold a highres laced screen in memory if it's deeper than two bits? (even sooner in PAL!)
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
@LordRenegrade I left the 'multiply by ten' there to see if your tech knowledge was up to figuring out why I wrote ten and not sixteen. My guess is if you ever did much Assembly, like I did, you'd have seen it without thinking. A bit like how I spelled "bail" wrong.... you don't criticise the little errors if you immediately surmise what the writer intends or is referencing. Which would be.... ?
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - I thought "bale" might be a UK thing, to be honest. I'm from Canada, and only know a handful of UK-specific.
...The "h" you left off the end? Or 0x from the beginning? Or however you like to tell your compiler/assembler hex? Some environments liked dollar signs. I *think* some of the C64 assemblers didn't support base 10 at all, and all bare numbers were hex. I could be mistaken on that last bit though.
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
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vapourmile 3 months ago
The troubles caused by segmented addressing are grossly exaggerated, usually by Amiga owners in fact who don't even understand the ramifications of it anyway, which was basically nothing. Like I said, if you can't tackle an intentionally simple concept such as segmented addressing then programming is not a job I recommend because you're going to bale before you even get as far as encoding floating point numbers, which is nowhere.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile I didn't find FP numbers that hard at all. The only gotcha is that there's a strange offset to the exponent, but once I read that paragraph of motorola's handbook a second time, it was fairly clear.
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
@LordRenegrade I didn't know about this? Sign, exponent, mantissa... the only 'strange' thing that happens is the bigger the magnitude of the exponent, the less accurate its representation.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - (btw, I did not mean to denigrate C64s in my previous comment comparing them to PCs. It's a fine machine for the time and was extremely affordable in an age when a computer was more like a car in cost. Also I may sound more confrontational than I intended; I feel a bit angry about how a modern PC is like a classic Amiga and it's called "progress". PCI+plug and play -> Zorro+Autoconfig. DLLs/.so re-entrant libraries -> libs:. Codecs->Datatypes. GPT part -> RDB part etcetcetc)
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
It's interesting you can be angry that the PC is 'like' the Amiga when: The ISA bus and its expansion architecture existed before the Amiga's Zorro was even on the drawing board, so it hardly came from there. If anything Zorro was an attempt at gaining the third party leverage the PC already had from its own expansion bus, which was formidable, again, before the Amiga was even invented.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - ISA did not have any real plug and play capabilities at all until much, much later. In it's earliest form, it's basically an extension of the 8088's bus. Don't you _love_ configuring com port/par port/FDC/HDC jumpers, especially when the silkscreen is wrong and the manual included was for a different product?
And then there's always the fun of the nasty MBR design. Isn't it great when you plug in a hard drive and it's primary prtn overrides your logical prtn and D becomes F?
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
@LordRenegrade Then again, I don't think the Amiga nailed it either. It was a long time before graphics cards of any kind started to appear on it, and when they did, software usually had to be written exclusively for each card it was to support. Port setting again, wasn't something that bothered me in the least. If you're a techie, it's all part of the fun, like programming or any other technical problem that's needs solving. If not, we'd all be out of a job cos everyone would find it all easy.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@LordRenegrade Come to think of it, I have never seen a working PnP device on an Amiga and at first glance I can't see a working demonstration of one on You Tube.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - right. Don't need to add zero though, bitwise/logical left shift will shift 'em in.
As for plug and play, I borrowed a A2232 to play with once (7-port serial board). You just plug it in, and increment the serial port device number to the port you want to use. An A590 just plugs in and goes. You do have to partition the hard drive, of course, but that's standard. My X-Surf board also just plugged in and went. Just about all accelerators/memboards are AUTOCONFIG.
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
@LordRenegrade Don't even need to do that on an 8086 because the chip circuitry scales the address pointer automatically for you. Some of the most sophisticated rendering software available still arranges the pixels in small square packets too, so it's not strictly so that you have to have large arrays for high-resolution screens. They're kept small in bucket-renders to leverage redundancy. Certainly far smaller than the 256x256 that would fill 64k.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - what, like larrabee? wasn't that cancelled? I guess a lot of 2D games are dealing in tiles too. That could lead to some rather nasty surprises with VESA hardware though. VESA pages are at the discretion of the hardware manufacturer, and having a tile intersect a page boundary would not be fun as page changes were not fast. Also, weren't most renderers at that time (like doom) vertical? that's fine in mode 13h, since as you pointed out, fits in a segment, but in VESA...ouch
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
@LordRenegrade I meant choices made at the software layer when I referred to the bucket render style. Premium programs use it, one I like is Mental Ray: You can search YouTube for "Mental Ray Interior Rendering" and "Volume Caustics in Mental Ray". These are just show-pieces for just a few features though. To see buckets in operation search "Vray render farm". I'd say these were about 20pixels square and are designed to take advantage of redundancy in the pipeline and processor parallelism.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@LordRenegrade Just to put something out there to get your teeth into though, it goes without saying that all these programs feature physical models of light that is not possible to reproduce on any Amiga product. They are supersets of results possible on Amiga, both in terms the physical effects represented and geometric complexity. I'd say also that this has always been true, at all points in the Amiga's history: It's the truth of the Amiga's failure.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - which programs are we talking about? I hope we're not comparing 2011 programs against 1985 ones. I'd imagine even if they're 1995 ones, they're running in 386 protected mode, granting linear memory access. Or possibly even long mode if they're from 2011.
sorry for the delay in response, was moving.
LordRenegrade 2 months ago
@LordRenegrade No problem, congrats on moving. Yeah that's right, they do have linear access, I mean they have it and they still address memory in small rectangular tiles because it's faster that to do way. So even given linear addressing, today it's thought of as better Not to do it that way. And actually I thought you might just like those CGI examples, it wasn't really part of the point except those examples Use tile rendering, and still intentionally avoid linear addressing.
vapourmile 2 months ago
@LordRenegrade So in effect what I'm saying is that although there are those who claim to prefer a linear address space, there are arguments in the details of pipeline optimisation which show it is unwise to traverse your data set that way. The benefits of a linear address is normally a matter of convenience rather than good algorithm design.
vapourmile 2 months ago
@LordRenegrade ...and I can certainly think of example I have seen where programmers have treated the X and Y axes each a one straight line and could have improved their program by dividing the screen into rectangular chunks to better take advantage of all-round spacial adjacency. Even a linear data set, say a sound file, would usually be split up today because of DSP matters that give way to Vector/SIMD/Parallel processing.
vapourmile 2 months ago
@LordRenegrade So, yeah, I think I'm creating a tautology here but I'm arguing "Yeah, but having a linear address space is a Bad thing because programmers will use it, for reasons of intellectual manageability, but end up writing worse algorithms". Usually once you've finished with an item of data, although it's next-door neighbour is the easiest place to visit next, it often isn't the best. Sometimes it's so hard to know where to go next, such as with Intel's i860, it destroys the platform.
vapourmile 2 months ago
@vapourmile Ahaha "The truth of the amiga's failure" was that some CGI programs were a bit duff?
Here's me thinking it's because they lost nearly 400 mil because of a ballsup near the 93 holiday season, as well as a change in management that decided to take four years of R&D effort across three product lines and shitcan it.
doritostheking 2 months ago
@doritostheking You know the only thing these arguments are convincing me of? That you've wasted your whole life.
vapourmile 2 months ago
@vapourmile Which is interesting because you've seen none of it. Don't you have some violent threats? Want my address so you can beat me up like you asked for the other day? You used the PM system too, like a pussy.
doritostheking 2 months ago
DLLs: Link libraries, like most of the things people who can't program and do not have a substantial technical knowledge sometimes attribute, incorrectly, to the Amiga, linking, even dynamically, has been a part of high level scalable software design since LONG before the Amiga, before the PC even. So again, you cannot possibly argue... well unless people built a time machine... that these idea are attributable or exclusive to or stolen from the Amiga.
vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - The only microcomputer that I've heard of that made any significant usage of _dynamically_ linked libraries -- real ones, with re-entrant code -- was OS9 for the TRS-80. Which wasn't even it's native OS, but something you had to buy from a third party, like GEOS. (and it had no GUI. and was limited to a half meg of ram) I don't care if some minis in the 70s could do X, Y, or Z; that's not the sort of thing you have in your study. For $1300. In 1985.
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
@vapourmile - also, my point, and pet peeve, (yes yes, I really shouldn't make pets of those..) is not that the Amiga _invented_ these things, but _brought it to home computers_. As a single package. Then IBM came along, saw Apple, Atari, Commodore, Sinclair, and co, and said, "People who are not us making computers??! The nerve! This will not do!!" and they released a single-tasking, lowest-bidder, developed-in-9-months heap of trash and swept the market away out of sheer arrogance.
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
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vapourmile 3 months ago
@vapourmile - I mean datatypes as in sys:classes/datatypes. Not as in double or int or DWORD/ULONG or such. I guess by 'comment removed' means that you figured that out.
Not that any of this matters in the long run, I guess. It seems like Apple and ARM are back and hungry for revenge and plan to replace the entire market with little tiny squares with no keyboards or mice.
LordRenegrade 3 months ago
I remember getting our Amiga, the graphics blew our mind! After having a Spectrum for a few years, this was some serious gaming kit. Mighty games like Zool, Magic Pockets, Another World, Lotus Esprit, Cannon Fodder and Football Manager.
TheSpidermint 5 months ago
I fucking love this. Explaining the mouse and Windows. Astounding.
ContainsLanguage 6 months ago
buh this teachers the bare basics like WIMP ect
llagin1234 6 months ago
Fuk mee !!! cutting edge technology LOL the latest in small computer technology!!!!!!!!
llagin1234 6 months ago
@llagin1234 Yeah but what do you think people 25 years in the future will think of what we've got?
mattlifeit 6 months ago
Oh my Goooooddddddddd.. I've always wanted to know how many telephone numbers you can store in a lump of mud from N. America! THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
azz578 6 months ago
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@HRHShawnPendragone Take your pills.
doritostheking 7 months ago
What truly amazes me is that you can setup an Amiga today and do many of the same things we do on current PCs (Mac and Windows) with nearly the same efficiency. Now I'm not saying as a practical alternative but simply the fact that you CAN. That speaks VOLUMES to the OS's efficiency and hardware design. I know for a FACT Microsoft and Apple pulled the Amiga apart to learn as much as they could. To this day we still see features being touted as "new" from MS and Apple that are Amiga-centric.
pixelsmack 7 months ago
@pixelsmack They didn't, and didn't need to. All the circuitry in the Amiga was of a level from which a competent electronics engineer could surmise similar designs simply by reading the hardware guide.
vapourmile 4 months ago
Imagine what kind of Amiga we could have today with a modern chipset...
Fuck Irving Gould and Mehdi Ali !!!
RabidRat88 7 months ago
Amiga 1000 ftw! I just scored one of these bad girls for 120 bucks. WISH ME LUCK
Cropduster777 9 months ago
@Cropduster777 about to get one for 60 dollars plus games and controllers including shipping. Can't wait.
ATARI800XLfan 8 months ago
Wow. We've come a LONG way in terms of computing. And we take it all for granted now, don't we?
foxmakeba 9 months ago
Did he say 32bit?
trydowave 11 months ago
if you watch the demo closely, you'll notice a feature that absolutely no computer had then and since and was very comfortable to use : draggable screens.
RafoCDBS 11 months ago
@RafoCDBS
OSX has "Spaces" which does an even cooler gag with sliding the screen off in a direction. OSX Lion is adding even more to this. Something very nearly the same as Amiga's grab-and-slide. Still, how many years did it take? Too long. I miss my Amiga. Thank god emulation is fast.
pixelsmack 7 months ago
what do reckon this guy would say if someone handed him a brand new tablet pc?
remama1981 11 months ago
Ok folks. Let's sit tight and see if RM7 reverts to his usual default position of being rude, obnoxious and boring...?
vapourmile 11 months ago
@vapourmile Say it to me or don't say it at all. Typical behavior from a spineless, compulsive liar who can't even get his own backstory straight. I mean what kind of bizzare comic book timeline does
"I was leading team of CGI professionals when the amiga was current but the PC was better at graphics while a child who was given two generations of amiga, during the 80s I was also a programmer even though thats a completely different field"
fit into? Some earth-616 shit right there.
richardmaudsley77 11 months ago
@richardmaudsley77 Incorrect: It's you who can't make sense of my work-history. Not that I'm anymore interested in discussing it with you. There was a time when I thought you were an inteligent guy masquerading as a bit of git out of boredom, but since you are inescapably trapped in a mode of obnoxious rubbish I can only conclude that your moronic bahaviour is in fact, the genuine article and that you really are just an ugly low-life piece of trash.
vapourmile 11 months ago
@richardmaudsley77 It will be of no interest to you I expect but it has so long been established that disreputable purile slanging matches are of use to precisely nobody that this type of communication is cited under the computer misuse act. PS. The remark in quotation marks is not actualy a quotation, it's just something you have written in your normal style: If somebody doesn't agree with you, slag them off. Genius, I don't think. Plus, you're the one lying about me, and, as for spineless...
vapourmile 11 months ago
@vapourmile "computer misuse act"
Call the internet police then. It's great that you're so desperate that you'll try and e-lawyer your way out of the situation though.
richardmaudsley77 11 months ago
@vapourmile I also just looked up your e-lawyer "computer misuse act" and found nothing saying I can't call you on your bullshit schitzo lies. Man the fuck up and deal with it.
richardmaudsley77 11 months ago
I bet he toasted that motherboard with static.. No ESP precaution taken there!
mk1gte 1 year ago
@mk1gte That's a myth mate.
richardmaudsley77 11 months ago
Why don't you all have a kit kat and a cuddle.
You'll forget all this sillyness.
BIGPIMPINUPDANYC 1 year ago 15
I want one!
cookie123456789012 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Check out my new 2010 Christmas Song on Wesnesday called 'Jingle Bells Rap Brap' on my Channel !
MCAzzaFrancisco 1 year ago
back in those days, data storage was always measured in how many phone numbers or how many phone directories
gwelsh123 1 year ago
"HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA WHAT A CRAPPY COMPUTER" ..lol
ZZombyWooff 1 year ago
@ZZombyWooff Yeah by todays standard but back in the 80's this thing was cutting edge. I bought an Amiga 500 when it came out around '88 and it was incredible. Graphics and music were stunning, with tons of games. Marble Madness, Falcon (F16) and FA-18 Interceptor were incedible. I still have fond memories of the beauty.
masere 11 months ago 6
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@masere come on. what's wrong with you. I said "HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA WHAT A CRAPPY COMPUTER", not HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA WHAT A CRAPPY COMPUTER. there is a difference, I bet you can find it. But everyone drinks too much red bull and all those horrible toxins, and so they can't concentrate on details.
ZZombyWooff 11 months ago
Comment removed
vapourmile 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@vapourmile 1 hour ago
...and also since there were never more than a few people involved in the discussion, and most of them were not capable of having a discussion with someone who didn't agree with them nor confirmed what they already believed, this line has hit the buffers. I was going to write explaining why the Amiga was not more successful, not much point of that here though as you say.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile comment removed? fuck me, you CAN feel shame. I thought you'd cut that part of your brain out along with your honesty.
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 I just realised you prefer witlessness and low-brow insults to conversation. It's ok, stick with what you do best.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile Go on then cocker, what did the comment say before you removed it?
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 "Cocker"? Is this your idea of humour? Your characteristic response to other users, of vulgarity or accusations of lying, is making any sort of conversation with you most unpleasant. I have alluded to this, more than once I think, and yet you still persist in your obnoxiousness. Do you believe being vicious makes you superior to those you're vicious towards? Or is it that it feels safe to shout your mouth off knowing you can't get into a fist-fight for it?
vapourmile 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 Either way, it's cowardly and boring and fails to make me feel inferior, if that is what you intend. And since this is clearly how you intend to proceed, I conclude that any further interaction with you is to be a complete waste of effort. Why not seek out some of the many, many You Tube users who love to derail any discussion into a trade of juvenile put-downs that wouldn't grace a football terrace?
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile I can accuse you of lying because you are. As the meerkat would say, simples.
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
Comment removed
vapourmile 1 year ago
Does anyone know what that line demo is runningunder workbench? Was it one of the workbench disks? I thought I had them all but cant seem to find these demos? I have Workbench 1.3 so did they remove these demos after version 1.0?
Sipie007 1 year ago
@Sipie007 It was a standard demo on the workbench. I had it on my 1.3 so I don't know why you don't have it on yours. Perhaps yours is a copy of someone else's who had deleted it?
Orlor 9 months ago
...I prefer the Amiga style in which the desktop is basically a file manager.
4.Screen-wide cross-hairs on dPaint, very useful for grabs that, the last time I checked, never got used in Photoshop.
vapourmile 1 year ago
Whilst I'm here giving my spin on the opinion there are a few positive things I'd like to say about Amiga the PC still has to learn from:
1.Arbitrary sized icons. A jumble of different icon sizes is much more visually stimulating than rank-and-file icons all the same size.
2.The isometric 'filing cabinet' directory adds more depth to the desktop.
3.The arbitration layer meaning that PC and MAC desktop organisation is totally different from the underlying file system is very annoying.
vapourmile 1 year ago
The thing is systems like the Amiga, C64 and all those back then are classic systems that should be remembered and I think its great that these are living on not only with people collecting the original hardware but also in emulation. I work as a IT Technician and I need to know my stuff about computer hardware and honestly to say the Amiga keeps up with modern hardware is just silly. Im afraid the Amiga was overtaken by the PC in the early 90s and thats comming from a Amiga fan.
Sipie007 1 year ago
Comment removed
vapourmile 1 year ago
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@Sipie007 @Sipie007 Well, if that's the date you'd set it at, I definitely agree you're an Amiga fan. It's about the same date as rm7 would have it. I wouldn't class myself as a "fan" of anything. I was a programmer in the eighties though and I was very excited about the Amiga on it's day of release. I'd place the year the PC overtook the Amiga as 1987. In crucial terms, such as compute performance, the Amiga never competed with the PC.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile ...And now you've both been a CGI professional, a child, and a programmer in the exact same time period. Are you one of those nutters son?
Also "1987" is a dumb thing to say. VGA was a great standard for games, but was unaffordable for most for years. And how long did it take for a gravis ultrasound to show up and finally beat the paula chip?
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 Ah, how sad, and I thought we were beginning to get along! ; )
"...CGI professional, a child, and a programmer in the exact same time period".
...only the same time period insofar as it's my lifetime. My guess is you're making incorrect assumptions about the exact dates and my age. PS. I am Not your son.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile Within the seven years the amiga was on the UK market.
Face it, you're full of shit.
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 You were doing so well, and now it's back to the insults. Listen, you'd probably help yourself, if, instead of hiding your cards and just trying to pummel me with profanity, you actually just had the balls to say what's on your mind. You can do that can't you?
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile you were a child when the A1200 came out, your dad had to buy you one. In the time between then and the amiga leaving the market (april 1994) you claim to have been both a programmer and a CGI professional leading an entire team.
Something there does not add up. Like say, any of it.
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 Ah... there you go. The bit(s) that don't add up are the bits where you've made assumptions and missed out on the truth. You have done this many times during this discussion and I'd suggest it would do your relationships no end of good if you checked out your version of the facts before hurling hurtful insults at people. It will make people begin to wonder if you're worth the bother.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 Advice aside. My father didn't have to buy me an Amiga, he chose to. He's been buying me electronics since the seventies. In fact, my mother bought me a Lego set for Christmas last year, now I'm forty. My time as a professional began before I owned an Amiga, during the time I owned a 64 and wrote games for it. I became an animator in the late eighties since following computer graphics from when I was in junior school. I was a programmer in 1982 for the ZX81.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile Suuuuuure you are.
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
I've grown to expect you to take the antithetic route no matter what other people say rm7, so I'm not very interested in going further on this matter. The subject is the Commodore Amiga.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 Let's cut a very long story very short: The reason why the Amiga didn't sell is because it was crap.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile You're a dedicated little troll aren't you. A bit of an egotist as well, considering you think you know more about computers than NASA telemetrists (Who used amigas because PCs were too shite to do the job until 2003).
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 Yes and you're a proper little leaps-to-ridiculous-conclusions aren't you?
I must hand it to you Amiga worshippers though... the way you eke out all those thinly spread examples of Amigas being found in niche applications.
It's amazing isn't it? The Amiga, a simple child's electronic toy almost sophisticated enough to actually get used in a similar fashion to a fully functioning computer!
And look how important these stories have become as the fuel to teenage fantasies?
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile You've long since passed the point of credibility. Give up man, before someone important sees you.
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
Comment removed
Sipie007 1 year ago
@vapourmile Do you know how long this argument has been going on for? I have been comming on here periodically for the past few months and your still having the same arguments lol. I mean honestly you really need to get a life because its like your on some sort of crusade or something. We all get that you think the amiga is crap and thats fine with me as your entitled to your own opinon but you keep banging on about it like a scratched record. Sorry to be so harsh but its getting boring!
Sipie007 1 year ago
@Sipie007 Quite right, it is getting boring, which is why I haven't said much about it for a week until recently. It could have been much less boring if I wasn't dealing with the uncommonly anti-social members of the You Tube service combined with the already uncommonly anti-social nature of the average Amiga / computer fanatic, leading to a slew of boring, crude, pointless, counter-productive remarks.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile But if thats the case then isnt it time just to let it go? I know we had a good discussion over it and as you know I like the Amiga being how good it was placed with respect to most of the general consumers. But you came onto a video related to the Amiga computer which in turn would be viewed by alot of Amiga fans and then began to bash the machine so its to be expected that you would get attacked.. So yes its a shame that the discussion has gone bad but I think its just best left.
Sipie007 1 year ago
Comment removed
vapourmile 1 year ago
@Sipie007 It's a little like trying to explain to seventh day adventists that a short journey into fact demonstrates Evolution is a much better grounding in natural history than the Genesis book of the bible, which is basically a philosophical deduction rendered at a time before the tools to uncover the facts, by a people who were not to blame for simply not having a clue what they were talking about. This argument, also true, would also not last long set against other's ego-fantasies.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile Lets not bring religion and science into it before a whole new argument starts with someone else lol. I know alot who are into retro computing and they like me view these classic computers wether it be speccy, C64 and Amiga as computers that should be remembered. They were successful especially in the UK and liked by alot of people. Abit like how some people like classic cars. My point is though let people like what they like because after all it wont make a difference to your life.
Sipie007 1 year ago
@vapourmile But for what its worth I respect your views and dont take any offense at what I say but my point is its like going to say a Man United Footy match against whatever your home team may be then instead of sitting with your fellow fans you sit in the Man untied section and proceed to shout how rubbish you think Man United are. By doing this your going have to expect to get abuse back. No offense to Man United just used them as a example lol. So anyway lets move on hey and all the best :)
Sipie007 1 year ago
@Sipie007 And though I respect your view I don't come from the "if people don't like what you're saying, better to stay quiet" school of conduct.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile Well thats up to you but your just going to go on forever then having the same arguments on here. I just dont see the logic in it and done see why you feel the need to change peoples views. Well up to you but I got better things to do :) all the best.
Sipie007 1 year ago
@vapourmile
No, it was clearly around seven years ahead of the competition. It did sell, by the bucketload, in Europe, but Commodore totally fucked up the North American market, and Irving Gould was a disastrous financier for the company who sacked the only really good CEO Commodore had post-Tramiel (Thomas Rattigan). The Amiga was also ahead of its time: the market outside of business and games - huge now - was small at the time. The Amiga is the natural predecessor to the modern Apple Mac.
KaitainCPS 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@richardmaudsley77 "VGA was a great standard for games" - I didn't think so back in the day! My family had an Acorn Archimedes which had similar graphics capabilities to the Amiga - and VGA seemed overly blocky. Of course, Archimedes and Amiga graphics seem blocky nowadays.
ElBerto 1 year ago
@ElBerto Why flag this comment as spam? I'd say it's moderate compared to many of the other remarks below. I've discovered since that You Tube is a swollen with miserable, petty, helpless veniality.
If you read this, wikipedia for "You Tube" and click to section 3.4 User Comments. Interesting to me how the final say combines "Confrontational" with "Ill informed". Know yourself?
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile I think you got the wrong person - I didn't flag any comment as spam. What are you wittering about now?
ElBerto 1 year ago
@ElBerto What is the point in people like you? What do you achieve with these persistent attempts to undermine people? Does it make you feel important? Because it certainly doesn't make you important? I am willing to bet my life that you wouldn't have the balls to speak to me like that if we were in the same room. It's cowardly, counter productive and pointless.
Besides, the comment was not levelled at you it was levelled at the person who flagged your response.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile Holy shit, the most ironic post in the world.
richardmaudsley77 11 months ago
@ElBerto I was backing what you wrote, and you're still trying to slag me down, imitating a million other users who give this service a bad name. Well done Mr Charisma, I won't be siding with you again.
What I'll do instead is urge you to try this: Google "You Tube Wiki", click on the You Tube Wikipedia web page and hyperlink to section '3.4 User comments'. It takes seconds to read. There: How does it feel to be you?
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile You wrote "@ElBerto Why flag this comment as spam?" i.e. asking why *I* flagged some comment as spam - which I didn't. "persistent attempts to undermine people?" - what attempts are those?
Is vapourmile some kind of automated troll-bot or a real person? He/it seems to get more bizarre and removed from reality with each post.
ElBerto 1 year ago
Comment removed
vapourmile 1 year ago
@ElBerto I have to thank you actually. You've really made me feel like a star.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@ElBerto He's real. People like this do exist. That's how we know god doesn't.
richardmaudsley77 11 months ago
@richardmaudsley77 Well, I'll try to explain this a second time, although I'm expecting yet another shockingly cretinous piece of invective, so hey, please don't disappoint me: As I said, once, in the comment you were slagging me down for, I was actually backing you, only you had misunderstood what I wrote. Now, you could have said "Oh really? How's that?", which would have allowed me to clarify, but instead you posted another moronic attack insisting you'd understood what me, which you hadn't.
vapourmile 11 months ago
@vapourmile You're replying to the wrong person, again!
richardmaudsley77 11 months ago
@richardmaudsley77 Oh... brilliant... that was so close rm7... this remark shows signs of A SENSE OF HUMOUR!
You are right too! I DID reply to the wrong person. I'm such a silly.
vapourmile 11 months ago
Is all this really worth arguing over? I mean come on we are 25 years on from the Amiga. The Amiga was a fantastic system back then and I still have mine and it still works. Back then the Amiga was ahead of the PC thats fact but to say the PC didnt catch up and over take the Amiga is just silly. The Amiga was great but was left to stagnate by commodore. richardmaudsley77 is right that PCs today can run Amiga software under emulation faster than the original hardware due to things like JIT.
Sipie007 1 year ago
Comment removed
vapourmile 1 year ago
simply a Great computer :) Amiga rules :) I love it's OS, and its simplicity & efficiency.
D6Film 1 year ago
"heavy man." made my day.
TheMaggotChicken 1 year ago
new amiga coming out soon! check it out - search for amiga x1000 in your favourite search engine! can't wait to see this beast in action... just a few more months to go! xD
djrikki2008 1 year ago 2
@djrikki2008 Don't suppose you know anything about the programmable XMos CPU do you? It sounds like an awesome idea and could be a momentous leap forward for technology, although then again, I might be imaging things that aren't real. Wish I had some facts. Can't wait to see it in action. I couldn't afford the betatest program
nicholasthetaylor 1 year ago
Good old days :)))
cocas1000 1 year ago
Cream - Heavy Man.
pathammond 1 year ago
Amiga is cult . Period.
HempLiberationOrg 1 year ago
Been reading through the comments and sounds like some one has a axe to grind as far as the Amiga is concerned lol. Personally being I actually work in Computer hardward for my work its beyond me how anyone can say in 1985 PC hardware capabilities were better than the Amigas. I wouldnt say that till 87 - 88 and even then those PCs were not affordable for the general public. I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion but just as long as they dont state it as fact like someone has been doing!
Sipie007 1 year ago
AMIGA 1000 rulez !!!!
Amiga was the best and far ahead of all PC's at that time !!!
all of the OS was just on one 880k disk (3,5" !!!) wow how small the disc !
and real multitasking you got from your Kickstart 1.1 disc
COMMODORE 4ever !!!
v1nce1007 1 year ago
Eu tinha um 500 e outo 1.200, para ter uma ideia simple: com o 500 eu fazia animação em 2D com 512Kb, é isso mesmo 512Kb.
DigitalNicolas 1 year ago
@Vapourmile Dude, you're amazing me. Really. Go hump a tree or something.
subrealms 1 year ago
@vapourmile Also we're not discussing anything at all because you have proven your inability to stay on topic or post relevant answers. This is now all about poking a stupid troll with a stick and having fun since this is the only thing that can be done with you.
subrealms 1 year ago
@subrealms You're wasting your time of course since I don't care one bit what you think. And accusing my comments of being irrelevant while all you've been doing here is trying, and failing, to insult me personally is a quite hypocritical conclusion.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile Nothing "I" said was marked as spam. Is there anything in this world that doesn't serve as a penis comparison to you?
subrealms 1 year ago
Amiga is a lifestyle.
ematech 1 year ago
Haha look at him now, marking replies he doesn't like as spam. Truly miserable.
subrealms 1 year ago
@subrealms More, factual, relevant, constructive additions to the discussion? When? On a technical note, you're wrong again, I haven't marked any of the remarks as spam. You can say anything you like here as far as I'm concerned. It must be other people who think what you are saying is spam.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@mcsdaver calm down mate you misunderstood :)
subrealms 1 year ago
@vapourmile I'm sorry your parents didn't love you enough to buy you an Amiga. I'm also sorry that I can only see and hear the discussions we make here, not the ones inside your head.
subrealms 1 year ago
@subrealms This is more blue-sky stuff. I think it's in your head. If you must know, my dad bought both the Amigas I used. An A500 and an A1200. My friends had a variety of models.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile First you were an adult working with a team of CGI professionals, now you admit to being a child with some low end models bought by his dad.
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 Q. Do you think this kind of remark contributes anything to the discussion? You're too busy trying to take pot shots at me. I was a child when dad bought the computers, then I went into CGI. I wasn't quite as succesful as my friends, but then I was always more techie than artist.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile then by the time you became an adult commodore were probably out of business, so I think your first point is null and void.
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 Personally I don't see how you can invalidate any point I've made based on how old I am since my age really doesn't have any influence at all on the outcome of this discussion. You're simply doing the same thing subrealms is, and Amiga users have always done: Attacking the character of the person who disagrees with you and not doing anything productive with the situation.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile Okay, since you're being so obtuse, I'll break it down:
First you claimed that the amiga had archetectural problems stopping it from evolving to the degree other machines did.
To add weight to your argument, you claimed to have been working as a CGI professional during a time when the PC was doing it better than the Amiga.
(continued next post)
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 The architechtural problems with the amiga were that they didn't check memory before writing to it. It was done for speed, but meant if the memory failed then you'd get a guru meditation. Oddly enough though, todays PCs do check before writing, but they still crash. Funny eh? Also, the Amiga's OS (not workbench, workbench was elegant) could have been a lot better, which is one of the reason's why programmers wrote their own. The Amiga is still a valuable tool though, and fun!
nicholasthetaylor 1 year ago
@nicholasthetaylor Not you. I was asking vapourhead to prove he obviously doesn't know.
Besides, lack of memory protection ain't a flaw.and people "wrote their own" just to get the entire machine.
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 So far you're showing all the hallmarks of Amiga fanaticism: Immature, arrogant, impassioned rather than reasoned. You attack people for holding an opinion that does not agree with your own.
vapourmile 1 year ago
@vapourmile Welcome to the thunderdome. Where opinions are attacked for being wrong.
richardmaudsley77 1 year ago
@richardmaudsley77 Ok, if you want to play it your way for once: You're wrong. Whether something is right or wrong is a matter of fact. An opinion is a matter of perception. Two people can have different opinions without either of them being wrong. However, to pass opinions off as facts, or to confuse the two, as you are, is a matter of fact, and therefore you are wrong.
vapourmile 1 year ago