The only reason why there exists any criticism regarding this bill, is because there exist particular persons who's thinking is clouded enough to cause their inability to correctly define "bullying"
Part of the reason why unbelievers often slander Christians by painting them as squared or repressed, is because Christians will most often refrain from fast & loose speech such as, "faggot", "queer-bait", "flamer", "breeders" etc. In fact, that is usually the speech domain of the unbelievers
The reality is that Christians are most often careful in selecting their words & prefer to remain proper in their articulation of language
These are the times of "New Atheists" being outspokenly hostile & militantly intolerant while rationalizing justification from their scientific literacy which postulates that they're biologically composed 100% of millions of retained, accumulated, reproductive defects. However, despite this defectiveness, Christian proselytizing usually remains a gentle act
What if I made up a religion where I had to always tell the unfiltered truth and I swore my ass off at my school peers? That would be protected under this law. Freedom from religion people
Who would have guessed after ProfMTH's video on the glories of school children having freedom of religious and moral speech and expression that could be easily interpreted as (and often is) bullying, HE doesn't even practice what he preaches.
HE doesn't like to be called out, pointed out as wrong, especially if you call him names while doing it, even IF it's one's strong moral conviction that he is, and should be called, an idiot.
Guess not all moral convictions are okay with him.
@takebackkean Basically, yeah. According to that language, ANY act of expression you do, so long as it was your firm moral or religious conviction, is immune from that law. If you truly believe in your heart of hearts to deepest recesses of your soul that that little autistic kid is due suffering and torment at your hands by your firm conviction that it's God's will, then Hey, that's okay, you're not trying to be mean; your only doing what you believe is the right and moral thing to do.
@decojuicer That was MY opinion of him. I don't know ProfMTH, but from the one video I've seen of his (his response to yours) if THAT is this 'geniuses" GRAND insight into things, and I had to make a judgment about him from that alone, I would most certainly assume he's an idiot. He essentially agrees that ANYTHING one could say, couched as one's moral or religious beliefs, isn't bullying and should be specially protected speech among captive school children. THAT's an idiot.
Subbed and mirrored. This is truly sickening, don't they see the ramifications this could have? Of course they do, that's why the passed it. Fuck! Peace.
@mojosideburns While researching this video, I found some more information about the senator who introduced it and made the wording changes. I should have a new video about it up in an hour or so. Personally, I think that it leaves very little doubt as to what his intentions are.
@UofLCardFan90 Well, first, Republicans and morality aren't often on speaking terms. Second, it gets through because the Republicans in this state have begun pushing legislation through very quickly before anybody has a chance to call them on their bullshit.
@OfMalta "I'm sure we can both agree that the law is pretty poorly drafted at the very least. Your own phrasing of 'no mere statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction' would be better."
Yes, poorly drafted. And, yes, a statement such as the one I suggested would go a long way to clarify the meaning and scope of the exemption and to allay concerns that the bill is meant to and/or will give religious opponents of homosexuality carte blanche to bully.
@OfMalta Good question. Such a proviso could be viewed as suggesting precisely the opposite of what the legislators intended for the exemption. The exemption provides, "This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil's parent or guardian." The intent seems to be that no mere statement of such a belief or conviction will not constitute bullying within the meaning of the statute. ...
(con't) @OfMalta If "provided that it does not contravene any other part of this section" were added, it would seem to be saying that a mere statement of a religious belief or moral conviction *could* constitute bullying within the meaning of the statute.
I think the statute as written can reasonably be interpreted to be saying that while a mere statement of religious belief isn't per se bullying, that doesn't mean bullying cannot be accomplished by such statements.
(con't) @OfMalta CORRECTION to the last sentence in the first part of my response to you: "The intent seems to be that no mere statement of such a belief or conviction will constitute bullying within the meaning of the statute."
I think for any religious leaning vote in any part of government should not be able to pass unless they have a physical vote from god. As soon as they get that...pass all the religious laws you want...because we will all believe then.
@decojuicer This sounds horrible. I will mirror this video on one condition. You send me a PM with a link to the text of the actual law, and if it turns out to be as bad as you say it is, I will mirror your video. If you would be kind enough to do that, so I can confirm what you are saying, I will mirror it. However, I will have to mirror it from one of the other channels that have already mirrored it. The original version won't play when I load the comments for some bizarre reason.
Mudbrooker sent me. Watched to get your count up. There is a small town in Michigan called "Hell" - really. I think the "26" should go there. This bill is insane.
Shared on my facebook page and posted in a bulletin. What they are pulling is bullshit. I wouldn't have known about it honestly if you hadn't made this video, thanks for posting it. Subbed.
@l337pwnage They aren't just defending their religion, they are setting up an affirmative defense for anybody that wants to be a bully in the name of their religion. I was going to name the video, "Can we please start hanging these mother fuckers from light poles?" But I thought that the title may come off a little harsh.
wow. I just moved to California from SE Michigan (where I'd lived since 1975) and the people here have been treating me the way I expect people at VA Hospitals treat shellshocked veterans.
Now the MI legislature is actually responding to the problem of bullying being reported by basically decriminalizing bullying? That's incredible. No wonder everyone here thinks I have PTSD.
@zEropoint68 Yeah, I remember the days when Michigan was a Democrat state. Of course, that's before the corporations went to all the trouble to break the unions.
Mirrored and added links for contacting the legislators and governor. Notice I didn't write "our" legislators and governor. I will not claim them as they (the majority) do NOT represent me or most of the people of this state.
We are gearing up for more recall campaigns this spring. I hope by then that the people of this state have woken up a bit and will leave their apathy at home.
@Nightmare060 Unfortunately brother, it's the only one that we have for now. Maybe David Icke can let us in on some of that alien technology and we can all head off to a nice tropical planet somewhere together.
@sadisticincubus That's too bad. We need more sane people here. It seems like the lunatics have taken over the asylum, and everybody is happy to let the do it. Michigan needs level head people to help bring us back.
Hi! I've had a quick look at the language of the exemption in the bill and I don't see an Establishment Clause problem. One could argue that the exemption is a reasonable attempt to ensure that rights protected by the 1st Amendment, e.g., freedom of speech and the free exercise of religion, are not inadvertently violated by an anti-bullying policy--violations that could doom the statute and the policies enacted pursuant to it to being struck down as unconstitutional.
(con't) ...at the bill as passed by the Michigan Senate, there seem to be other problems with it. But I don't see an Establishment Clause problem. Nor, I must say, do I think the bill gives permission to bully under the guise of making a statement of religious or conscientious belief.
I want to look at the bill more closely, but that's my preliminary opinion. I may do a video response.
@ProfMTH Wouldn't this violate Equal Protection? While a law forcing someone to associate with a person their religion forbids them to associate with certainly violates the Establisment Clause, wouldn't a law giving a religious exemption to deliberately harrass that same person violate the Equal Protection Clause?
@TheMudbrooker "...wouldn't a law giving a religious exemption to deliberately harrass that same person violate the Equal Protection Clause?"
One of my points is that I don't think the bill provides a religious exemption for deliberate harassment. Rather, the bill can reasonably be read to say that while a mere statement of sincerely held religious or moral conviction is not bullying per se, that doesn't mean religious statements can never be instruments of bullying.
@ProfMTH Thanks for your comment and your video response. As always, your knowledge is appreciated. I've made a response to your response. Should be up soon.
Sounds to me like the Michigan Legislature just declared open season on gays and lesbians, religious minorities, reproductive rights and pretty much anyone who does not conform to conservative Christian dogma.
@rriverstone1 I'm truly sorry for your pain. I hope you can use your story publicly (maybe a response video?) and help these Repugnant state senators understand what they have done.
@rriverstone1 Then I'm even more sorry to learn your injuries are still so raw. You aren't alone, and I hope you have a solid network of friends and legal support.
I have a sincerely held moral belief that Republicans should be rounded up and clubbed to death like baby seals. But that's OK, according to the Republicans themselves, I should be exempt from punishment if I act on that belief.
@TheMudbrooker This bill is why I'm in favor of Mussonli term limits. No more recalls, just hangings in the street. Of course, my wife says that I tend to over-react sometimes.
I do hope that ProfMTH says something about this. I'd like to know his take on the constitutionality of this. Makes me ashamed of being a Michigander.
@tattooskin72 I've given my preliminary opinion here in the comments section. I don't think there's an Establishment Clause problem. There may well be other problems with the bill as passed by the Michigan Senate. I want to look at the language more closely. But I don't see an Establishment Clause problem.
@OtherGonzo Senator Rick Jones(more about him in my new video which is being uploaded now) says that he knows the bill isn't perfect, but at least it's a start. A start of what is what I'm wondering.
The only reason why there exists any criticism regarding this bill, is because there exist particular persons who's thinking is clouded enough to cause their inability to correctly define "bullying"
Part of the reason why unbelievers often slander Christians by painting them as squared or repressed, is because Christians will most often refrain from fast & loose speech such as, "faggot", "queer-bait", "flamer", "breeders" etc. In fact, that is usually the speech domain of the unbelievers
Chuichupachichi 2 weeks ago
The reality is that Christians are most often careful in selecting their words & prefer to remain proper in their articulation of language
These are the times of "New Atheists" being outspokenly hostile & militantly intolerant while rationalizing justification from their scientific literacy which postulates that they're biologically composed 100% of millions of retained, accumulated, reproductive defects. However, despite this defectiveness, Christian proselytizing usually remains a gentle act
Chuichupachichi 2 weeks ago
In the latest Bogosity podcast, I make the argument about the law violating the establishment clause.
shanedk 3 months ago
What if I made up a religion where I had to always tell the unfiltered truth and I swore my ass off at my school peers? That would be protected under this law. Freedom from religion people
TheRepublicOfUngeria 4 months ago
Who would have guessed after ProfMTH's video on the glories of school children having freedom of religious and moral speech and expression that could be easily interpreted as (and often is) bullying, HE doesn't even practice what he preaches.
HE doesn't like to be called out, pointed out as wrong, especially if you call him names while doing it, even IF it's one's strong moral conviction that he is, and should be called, an idiot.
Guess not all moral convictions are okay with him.
EmeraldView 4 months ago
sooo i can just go there and beat the shit out of some one if it is my moral conviction? nice if it is legal i will make sure to do it.
takebackkean 4 months ago
@takebackkean Basically, yeah. According to that language, ANY act of expression you do, so long as it was your firm moral or religious conviction, is immune from that law. If you truly believe in your heart of hearts to deepest recesses of your soul that that little autistic kid is due suffering and torment at your hands by your firm conviction that it's God's will, then Hey, that's okay, you're not trying to be mean; your only doing what you believe is the right and moral thing to do.
EmeraldView 4 months ago
ProfMTH is an idiot, spread the word.
EmeraldView 4 months ago
@EmeraldView If I thought that he was an idiot, I would have never asked him for his opinion on this.
decojuicer 4 months ago
@decojuicer That was MY opinion of him. I don't know ProfMTH, but from the one video I've seen of his (his response to yours) if THAT is this 'geniuses" GRAND insight into things, and I had to make a judgment about him from that alone, I would most certainly assume he's an idiot. He essentially agrees that ANYTHING one could say, couched as one's moral or religious beliefs, isn't bullying and should be specially protected speech among captive school children. THAT's an idiot.
EmeraldView 4 months ago
@EmeraldView He's certainly not an idiot.
tattooskin72 4 months ago
Subbed and mirrored. This is truly sickening, don't they see the ramifications this could have? Of course they do, that's why the passed it. Fuck! Peace.
mojosideburns 4 months ago
@mojosideburns While researching this video, I found some more information about the senator who introduced it and made the wording changes. I should have a new video about it up in an hour or so. Personally, I think that it leaves very little doubt as to what his intentions are.
decojuicer 4 months ago
Well said sir. You have a new sub.
mjlgaard 4 months ago
@mjlgaard Thank you.
decojuicer 4 months ago
This bill is disgusting; I don't know how this is being legally or morally passed.
UofLCardFan90 4 months ago
@UofLCardFan90 Well, first, Republicans and morality aren't often on speaking terms. Second, it gets through because the Republicans in this state have begun pushing legislation through very quickly before anybody has a chance to call them on their bullshit.
decojuicer 4 months ago
America is an insane country.
ManNorthern 4 months ago
@ManNorthern Sometimes I think that you're right.
decojuicer 4 months ago
No - surely not... a law that encourages the opposite behaviour than its stated intention?!
2plus2make4 4 months ago
@2plus2make4 I know. Crazy, ain't it?(I wish I could write sarcastically.)
decojuicer 4 months ago
@OfMalta "I'm sure we can both agree that the law is pretty poorly drafted at the very least. Your own phrasing of 'no mere statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction' would be better."
Yes, poorly drafted. And, yes, a statement such as the one I suggested would go a long way to clarify the meaning and scope of the exemption and to allay concerns that the bill is meant to and/or will give religious opponents of homosexuality carte blanche to bully.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@OfMalta Good question. Such a proviso could be viewed as suggesting precisely the opposite of what the legislators intended for the exemption. The exemption provides, "This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil's parent or guardian." The intent seems to be that no mere statement of such a belief or conviction will not constitute bullying within the meaning of the statute. ...
ProfMTH 4 months ago
(con't) @OfMalta If "provided that it does not contravene any other part of this section" were added, it would seem to be saying that a mere statement of a religious belief or moral conviction *could* constitute bullying within the meaning of the statute.
I think the statute as written can reasonably be interpreted to be saying that while a mere statement of religious belief isn't per se bullying, that doesn't mean bullying cannot be accomplished by such statements.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
(con't) @OfMalta CORRECTION to the last sentence in the first part of my response to you: "The intent seems to be that no mere statement of such a belief or conviction will constitute bullying within the meaning of the statute."
ProfMTH 4 months ago
I think for any religious leaning vote in any part of government should not be able to pass unless they have a physical vote from god. As soon as they get that...pass all the religious laws you want...because we will all believe then.
djkoch65 4 months ago
@djkoch65 I like that idea.
decojuicer 4 months ago
... so 9/11 is finally legal, eh?
n1a1s1i1m 4 months ago
@n1a1s1i1m Only if the terrorists are school kids from Michigan.
decojuicer 4 months ago
America... everyday prooves that stupid has no limit.
Your people even managed to make me like muslims more then US.
For fucks sake do something about these fucktards -.-
These people should be put in a fucking prison -.-
Ilamarea 4 months ago
@Ilamarea Soon enough...soon enough.
decojuicer 4 months ago
@decojuicer This sounds horrible. I will mirror this video on one condition. You send me a PM with a link to the text of the actual law, and if it turns out to be as bad as you say it is, I will mirror your video. If you would be kind enough to do that, so I can confirm what you are saying, I will mirror it. However, I will have to mirror it from one of the other channels that have already mirrored it. The original version won't play when I load the comments for some bizarre reason.
GargamelGold 4 months ago
Mudbrooker sent me. Watched to get your count up. There is a small town in Michigan called "Hell" - really. I think the "26" should go there. This bill is insane.
PaulKJHarris 4 months ago
@PaulKJHarris Thanks for the view. Their is also a town called Climax. Maybe they might loosen up if they spent a little time their.
decojuicer 4 months ago
Shared on my facebook page and posted in a bulletin. What they are pulling is bullshit. I wouldn't have known about it honestly if you hadn't made this video, thanks for posting it. Subbed.
MrTear3 4 months ago
@MrTear3 Thanks so much.
decojuicer 4 months ago
@decojuicer Not a problem at all.
MrTear3 4 months ago
o, and how is this their "true" colors? WHAT AN UNBELIEVABLE SHOCK! THEY ARE DEFENDING THEIR RELIGION! ZOMFG!
gosh, they sure fooled all of us.
l337pwnage 4 months ago
@l337pwnage They aren't just defending their religion, they are setting up an affirmative defense for anybody that wants to be a bully in the name of their religion. I was going to name the video, "Can we please start hanging these mother fuckers from light poles?" But I thought that the title may come off a little harsh.
decojuicer 4 months ago
@decojuicer Well, you're an idiot, so I guess that makes me a bully now, lol.
l337pwnage 4 months ago
kids today are such pussies.
l337pwnage 4 months ago
wow. I just moved to California from SE Michigan (where I'd lived since 1975) and the people here have been treating me the way I expect people at VA Hospitals treat shellshocked veterans.
Now the MI legislature is actually responding to the problem of bullying being reported by basically decriminalizing bullying? That's incredible. No wonder everyone here thinks I have PTSD.
zEropoint68 4 months ago
@zEropoint68 Yeah, I remember the days when Michigan was a Democrat state. Of course, that's before the corporations went to all the trouble to break the unions.
decojuicer 4 months ago
I live in Michigan and the sad truth is that the last hope for real change was during the recall Rick Snyder campaign. It failed.
Unfortunately we are going to have to wait until next year's elections to help shift the balance of power in the Michigan legislature.
This is why elections are so damn important. Once you elect a person or party they are almost impossible to get rid of or have their minds changed.
BigBobsh2o 4 months ago
@BigBobsh2o I agree completely. But more people need to be informed so that they can make better decisions about their elected officials.
decojuicer 4 months ago
Thanks for making this video. Spot on.
SiriusMined 4 months ago
@SiriusMined Thanks for watching.
decojuicer 4 months ago
Check out my video on this topic PLEASE
Lea2009 4 months ago
Mirrored and added links for contacting the legislators and governor. Notice I didn't write "our" legislators and governor. I will not claim them as they (the majority) do NOT represent me or most of the people of this state.
We are gearing up for more recall campaigns this spring. I hope by then that the people of this state have woken up a bit and will leave their apathy at home.
debbieomi 4 months ago
@debbieomi Let me know when Debbie. I'll be in again for sure.
decojuicer 4 months ago
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Nightmare060 4 months ago
@Nightmare060 Unfortunately brother, it's the only one that we have for now. Maybe David Icke can let us in on some of that alien technology and we can all head off to a nice tropical planet somewhere together.
decojuicer 4 months ago
I'm so glad I left that effed up state 10 years ago.
sadisticincubus 4 months ago
@sadisticincubus That's too bad. We need more sane people here. It seems like the lunatics have taken over the asylum, and everybody is happy to let the do it. Michigan needs level head people to help bring us back.
decojuicer 4 months ago
Hi! I've had a quick look at the language of the exemption in the bill and I don't see an Establishment Clause problem. One could argue that the exemption is a reasonable attempt to ensure that rights protected by the 1st Amendment, e.g., freedom of speech and the free exercise of religion, are not inadvertently violated by an anti-bullying policy--violations that could doom the statute and the policies enacted pursuant to it to being struck down as unconstitutional.
Based on my quick look...
ProfMTH 4 months ago
(con't) ...at the bill as passed by the Michigan Senate, there seem to be other problems with it. But I don't see an Establishment Clause problem. Nor, I must say, do I think the bill gives permission to bully under the guise of making a statement of religious or conscientious belief.
I want to look at the bill more closely, but that's my preliminary opinion. I may do a video response.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH Wouldn't this violate Equal Protection? While a law forcing someone to associate with a person their religion forbids them to associate with certainly violates the Establisment Clause, wouldn't a law giving a religious exemption to deliberately harrass that same person violate the Equal Protection Clause?
TheMudbrooker 4 months ago
Comment removed
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@TheMudbrooker "...wouldn't a law giving a religious exemption to deliberately harrass that same person violate the Equal Protection Clause?"
One of my points is that I don't think the bill provides a religious exemption for deliberate harassment. Rather, the bill can reasonably be read to say that while a mere statement of sincerely held religious or moral conviction is not bullying per se, that doesn't mean religious statements can never be instruments of bullying.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH Thanks for your comment and your video response. As always, your knowledge is appreciated. I've made a response to your response. Should be up soon.
decojuicer 4 months ago
i agree - that was really creepy. are they going to add similar religious exceptions for murder, theft and rape?
floydstinkyboy 4 months ago 10
@floydstinkyboy Somewould if they thought they could get away with it while insisting that only 'christians' held the exemption.
Nhurm 4 months ago
Shared and Subscribed.
Bretonik9 4 months ago
@Bretonik9 Thanks.
decojuicer 4 months ago
Sounds to me like the Michigan Legislature just declared open season on gays and lesbians, religious minorities, reproductive rights and pretty much anyone who does not conform to conservative Christian dogma.
WildwoodClaire1 4 months ago 3
@WildwoodClaire1 That's pretty much what it looks like. I really don't think they understand this could end up backfiring on them.
tattooskin72 4 months ago
@WildwoodClaire1 At least in the public school systems.
decojuicer 4 months ago
Comment removed
WildwoodClaire1 4 months ago
Thank you. I've been reading about this bill for three days but this is the most-compelling and pithy review I've seen of it so far. Sharing widely!
zenobia13 4 months ago
@zenobia13 Thanks a lot.
decojuicer 4 months ago
I'm Queer. I've been raped, beaten, disinherited. I have brain injuries and mutilated genitals as a result. Thank you. Really, sir, thank you.
rriverstone1 4 months ago
@rriverstone1 I'm truly sorry for your pain. I hope you can use your story publicly (maybe a response video?) and help these Repugnant state senators understand what they have done.
zenobia13 4 months ago
@zenobia13 Too soon to be "out" with the abusers, only with supporters, so far. Soon, though. I'm getting my voice back a little more, each day.
rriverstone1 4 months ago
@rriverstone1 Then I'm even more sorry to learn your injuries are still so raw. You aren't alone, and I hope you have a solid network of friends and legal support.
zenobia13 4 months ago
@rriverstone1 You're welcome, and I'm truly sorry for what you had to endure.
decojuicer 4 months ago
I have a sincerely held moral belief that Republicans should be rounded up and clubbed to death like baby seals. But that's OK, according to the Republicans themselves, I should be exempt from punishment if I act on that belief.
TheMudbrooker 4 months ago 15
@TheMudbrooker As long as it's in the name of FSM. Sounds like your following the law.
startreking2007 4 months ago
@TheMudbrooker This bill is why I'm in favor of Mussonli term limits. No more recalls, just hangings in the street. Of course, my wife says that I tend to over-react sometimes.
decojuicer 4 months ago
I do hope that ProfMTH says something about this. I'd like to know his take on the constitutionality of this. Makes me ashamed of being a Michigander.
tattooskin72 4 months ago
@tattooskin72 I've given my preliminary opinion here in the comments section. I don't think there's an Establishment Clause problem. There may well be other problems with the bill as passed by the Michigan Senate. I want to look at the language more closely. But I don't see an Establishment Clause problem.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@tattooskin72 I didn't know that you were a fellow Michigander. Are you near the Metro-Detroit area?
decojuicer 4 months ago
@decojuicer I live in the Grand Rapids area. Quite conservative around here.
tattooskin72 4 months ago
featured also
prodigyat9 4 months ago
Consider yourself mirrored...
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 4 months ago
@InModiasWeTrust Thanks.
decojuicer 4 months ago
Has there been any statement from these idiots trying to explain what they were thinking?
I've already shared a story about it on FB, I don't want to spam them to much about it.
I am featuring this video on my channel page.
Sorry for the rambling comment.
OtherGonzo 4 months ago
@OtherGonzo Senator Rick Jones(more about him in my new video which is being uploaded now) says that he knows the bill isn't perfect, but at least it's a start. A start of what is what I'm wondering.
decojuicer 4 months ago
Mirror coming up.
prodigyat9 4 months ago
@prodigyat9 Thanks so much, my friend.
decojuicer 4 months ago