@PTKilowatt Nah, Janeway is more "Wait, what's my characterization this week?" she's as likely to kill you as be diplomatic, and there's strong evidence that her scattered personality is actually a form of Schizophrenia.
This episode demonstrated yet again that DS9 was far superior to TNG and Voyager - the setting largely dispensed with the shallow utopianism of its sister shows to deliver a far deeper, more morally-flexible experience. Watching TNG now is embarrassing, but DS9 is still great TV.
DS9 is, without doubt, the jewel in the Star Trek Universe. Complex characters who aren't the pure examples of humanity that Roddenberry wanted to portray. Multiple series arcs (perhaps borrowing from Babylon 5) that rewarded the viewer and performances that were always pitched absolutely perfectly.
@TheFamilySlitheen Yes it was. That's because Roddenberry was dead...and Ron Moore took the gloves off and started some real sci fi writing. He kept the "heart" of Trek in there...but he showed the characters going through more realistic issues and showed them reacting to those issues in a more human way. It was easily the best Trek series ever...and it was overlooked by people that didn't give it a chance.
@WildGunsTomcat it is the only Star trek series that I've ever watched that made me want to come back to it again and again. You're right about it being overlooked which is a real shame as this show had everything that was missing from TNG, heart and soul.
The interplay between characters was brilliant (who would have thought Bashir would have become such a close friend to O'Brien), the Dominion proved to be so much more a threat than the Borg ever did and it ended on a high.
@Foxstab The difference is they never had to deal with a large-scale threat like the Dominion, the kind that consistently used infiltration and subversion in the form of shape-shifters. Things change very very quickly when you're under attack from any and all directions.
Plus, given what Sisko has to face and contend with, I'd postulate that he's still a better human than anyone today would be in his situation.
@PTKilowatt A subversive threat? No. A large scale threat? Yes. The Borg were more direct, but they were the juggernaut. And eventually, they would've come in force. In great numbers.
@WildGunsTomcat Well said, it's tragic when fans skip over this series simply because it wasn't the Ideal universe people were used to. Also, it's strange that Voyager did so much better despite it's own flaws.
@TheFamilySlitheen Perfectly put. I love Gene's vision. But its hard to make an arguement against the idea that DS9 (at times)went against his vision..In his vision humanities future is a near perfect optimistic paradise. In DS9, humanity has moments that it shows that it still has lots of room to grow. Both ideas are great, I say Gene created the vision and DS9 expanded on it.
"Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people – as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts... deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers... put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time... and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces, look at their eyes."-Quark
@Neomac316 Well said indeed! People blame Rick Berman for ruining the franchise, but in reality, he & others on his staff brought it to what it always should have been. Major Kira said (to paraphrase), that the universe isn't perfect & people just aren't the nice, peaceful species everyone thinks they are.
She hit it right on the head with that one & Gene had no imput at all on that truthful writing. Gene set the stage, Rick built it to what it became.
@Trekker1801 I agree to a certain extent. But when Voyager came in 1995, Rick Berman's attention was diverted to making Voyager the franchise show, freeing Ira Stephen Behr to do more war oriented storylines and less optimistic but more of a realist view of the future. I respect Berman because he is the co-creator but he did object to the more violent storylines and the length of th Dominion War stor arc. I think thats someof the reasons some people dont like Bermans handling of the franchise.
@Neomac316 You're absolutely right. I didn't like the length of the Dominion storyline (much like I felt they carried the Xindi story too long on Enterprise as well). I heard a good quote about Rick that said, "They needed rick Berman to ruin Star Trek so he could save it". I understand that to a point, but there seems to be a much deeper meaning to it that only those that worked with him could spell out.
Either way I feel the franchise did well enough to keep us fans happy for the most part.
i loved ds9 because out of all the treks, it was the only one with a series continutity. you wanted to see what was going on in the war. every episode led up to another part of the story not just a new episode. plus the characters were more fished out than any other series.
It's blasphemy to some but I think DS9 is better than TNG. Don't get me wrong TNG is great, but everyone on TNG was too perfect. You knew Data, Picard, Riker, etc were all knights in shining armor who did everything perfectly, but the characters on DS9 were nuanced and multi-layered. I also loved the large supporting cast and all the great recurring characters (like Dukat, who is the best ST villian of all time, imo).
@RockBanned Eh, Dukat was a great Villain for the first few seasons. Then, they stranded him on a planet with Sisko where they decided to make him pure evil... Of course, from my perspective, Sisko goated him into being more of a prick than he is (seriously, he was noticeably unstable, and Sisko EGGED HIM ON). Later, he becomes a demon. That's not a great villain, that's an absolutely silly one. He's a great villain who was DESTROYED by bad writing in DS9's later seasons.
@goji2099 Well, yeah I think once Ziyal died he became more one-dimensional, but until then he was really nuanced and a well written villian. I still stand by my opinion that he's the greatest ST villian. I mean, who else was better really? The Borg had no personality, Q is more funny than sinister, and none of the villians from VOY lasted long.
Who, in your opinion is better? Btw, I'm not being confrontational, I'm honestly curious from one ST fan to the next, you know your stuff :)
@RockBanned I'm going to go out on a limb and say something that will mess with a lot of Star Trek Fans- Arik Soong. Arik Soong was always that wildcard. While not a bad guy perse, even when being heroic you never could fully trust him. He was well written, and extremely well developed. In his episodes, you could always feel what he was feeling, despite never knowing what he was thinking. Dukat was a fantastic Villain, but sort of like Q, I couldn't take him seriously by the end.
@goji2099 Ah I can agree with this. I personally like Dukat better, but all of your points are dead on about Arik. It helps when you have the best actor in Star Trek playing the character (yes I didn't forget about Patrick Stewart).
Which isn't to say Spiner is better than Stewart overall...no of course not. But he's better IN Star Trek. Acting as Data was superb; he created a deep character that you could connect with and he wasn't allowed to portray (much) emotion.
@RockBanned ABSOLUTELY. DS9 is leagues ahead of TNG as far as character development and story. TNG still had the stink of Roddenberry on it...and it tried to get away with it after he died but the damage was done. The characters' paths were set. I can't watch TNG anymore because I see the flaws in the premise and it honestly bores me.
@RockBanned Yes. I like story and simply put while TNG was good its focus on exploration came at the cost of limited story arcs. Sure the Borg was cool and Q was fun but other than Worf and Data there was little character development and a two part episode was about as close to a story arc as they got.
@goomba25 Avery Brooks always had the bald head/goatee look before DS9, but since he was on Spenser for Hire, that look became tied to his character on that show, so he grew his hair and shaved his beard to look different. But after a few seasons, he became more tied to Sisko, so he could change back to his normal look.
I am going through all the Trek's in order of series, not date aired. I'm finishing up DS9 and just watched this episode Friday. I couldn't take my eyes away from it and usually watch while doing some work, couldn't tear myself away. Loved this episode and the breaking down of the 4th wall was fantastic. This is why I think people should not give Star Trek to just cheesy acting, but DS9 was the one that brought it out the best.
DS9 is so important because DS9 provides the proof for the other series. Showing that the characters are capable of just as many highs and lows as us proves that they are the same as us, so when, in other episodes and shows, we see people getting along and working together for the common good, we know that it is a product of their culture and philosophy and not some kind of inborn condition. It says to us that we could be where they are.
Regardless of what he had to do in this episode, Sisko is still a good man. A hell of a leader... one of the best Captains in Star Trek. He remains the Sisko!
This is the best episode of DS9, because it tells the sentient cost of war and the terror that is necessary for a war to conclude. Sisko is one of the few that would admit that horror.
This has always been one of my most favourite Trek episodes in any series of all time. Avery's acting throughout it is simply superb. His wrestling with his conscience is palpable. The writing in the final Garak/Sisko scene - simply fantastic. Never had the means to an end been so boldly justified. This episode does away with the innocence of the Trek universe and shows what war does to the noble and the innocent.
Darkest episode of Deep Space 9, by far. But quite possibly the realest episode of any show, ever. God this show was a masterpiece, it along with Lost are the only TV series' that find their way into your heart like the greatest of novels. I love it even more now than when I watched it on WB56-WLVI Boston as a primary schooler. The fact that the garish, tacky TOS got 6 1/2 movies and DS9 got zero is an awful injustice.
@trilobright I know! DS9 has always been my favorite. Even better than TNG. However, the entire second half of the series is all about war and that's a movie within itself. The last 14 episodes of the series is the longest story arc ever in Star Trek.
@nytehawx Minor correction..... Only the last 10 are part of the same arc. "We knew we couldn't wrap-up the show in just one episode, so we crafted a 10-episode long storyline to bring proper closer to the show." - Producer Ronald D Moore
@trilobright DS9 Is my favorite Star Trek series, but I think fans have a tendency to sell the other series short. Now that I've finally gotten around to working my way through TOS and TNG I've been quite impressed with many episodes. I'm not saying that any of them are perfect, (and DS9 has "Run Along Home" among others) but those series rise just as high as DS9 at their best. I also think it would be hard to pull of a DS9 movie. TOS/TNG are episodic, arcs need more than 2 hours.
@MrSimbamona The episode is season 6's "In the Pale Moonlight." Call it the ultimate betrayal of Gene's vision if you like, but the story itself is fantastic.
@JPM2875 Season 5 in "Rapture" There was a reference to the uniform change in the episode. Its interesting to note that all of the old DS9 uniforms were sent to Voyager because Voyager had a smaller budget than Deep Space Nine.
When I was watching DS9 I never felt that it was some preachy military adventure. It was about people that weren't all tied to Star Fleet. Garak, Gul Dukat, Kira Nyres. Quark. Morn. Nog. Grand Negus Zek, Constable Odo. Bron. I could keep going. But atleast 2/3 of the DS9 Cast were not part of Star Fleet. So it was more about alien people than about the fantasy about discovering aliens.
DS9 was about exploring different alien people/TNG was about exploring different alien myths.
An yet when you go into space, you have only an handful of humanoid beings with extreme cultural flaws that make them almost unreal. An yet no subcultures. No sub-Races outside of the Vulcan/Romulan Split.
An lets not forget one thing...Star Trek is Futurist Military Show. Star Fleet is a Space Militia. A Galactic Brigade. Not to many stories about the ST Universe outside of Star Fleet were they're?
The difference between Star Trek TNG&DS9 is that Gene Rod has his prints all over TNG were as DS9 was a real future. Now TNG was no ST-OS but modernized view of the future usually look better than goofy/dreamy images from 40 to 50 years prior.
The simple fact is most ST episodes deal with fantasy where no racial issues ever existed. The future is socially perfect where humanity has no need for anything.
Poverty doesn't exist. Violence, War, Cultural image and other thing are gone.
@Baltimoreman78 Agreed-in the sense that DS9 featured real characters-as in, yeah, this might really happen. I love Picard, but Sisko was real, he was flawed.
@Baltimoreman78 Yes, look at the character of Garak. He had walked the halls of power, been exiled and was reviled by everyone. Yet he remained himself through it all, living by his own code. Which could be summed up as "Never let your morals get in the way of doing the right thing."
DS9 was great, it had a great writing staff, Brannon Braga didnt write a single episode for DS9 thats why the scripts were always top toch, Rick Berman help write a two parter in season 2 but thats it in DS9's entire run..
@mkpcapecod TV guide once said that "It was the greatest show, that no one watched" or something like that. I love this show! This, BSG, and The West Wing for life!
It's episodes like this that make DS9 the best Trek of all, because it treated its characters as real people, not paragons of virtue. Sisko was faced with a choice of two evils: compromise his ethics or risk trillions of lives and the destruction of the Federation. His only mistake was forgetting that everything worthwhile has a cost.
@daviddrakehunter word and well said; i mean i LOVE TNG but in retrospect picard had little or no flaws, could find answers to lifes most unanswerable questions and was just like a demi-god of virtue and skill. of course he's the fan fave: he's effinf PERFECT!
@daviddrakehunter The best part of the episode is not just that Sisko made his choice. If this was TOS or TNG, he would have gotten caught and the whole operation backfired. It almost did here (and certainly looks that way when he posts the list), but Sisko got away with it. No one on the "good guys" side lost except for Sisko compromising his ethics.
That is one of the greatest moments of the series. Sisko coming to terms and venting his deception to save the entire world (his world/ entire quadrant).
Hey stupid. You must be a fat American idiot. You see, in England...where I live...things are spelled properly. Educate yourself before you call someone else an idiot. Faggot.
Dialogue. Dialogue (sometimes spelled dialog in American English[1]) is a literary and theatrical form consisting of a written or spoken conversational exchange between two or more people.
Monologue. In theatre, a monologue (or monolog) is a speech presented by a single character, most often to express their thoughts aloud, though sometimes also to directly address another character or the audience.
@saiyanmage and WildGunsTomcat I'm not sure what everyone's issue is.
The episode was pretty much a flashback. Sisko was monologing to his computer/log/journal. ITs dialogue in the scenes of the flashback.
While its somewhat entertaining to watch yall argue about this, is this really worth shouting at each other for it. Your arguing over a technicality in the bloody title.
Garak was awesome, he was so charming and likeable but at the end of the day he was a complete bastard who would stab his friends in the back if it served his purposes, you couldnt trust him further than you could throw him. Sisko is also awesome, he was a bit flat in the early seasons, but once they brought out his ruthless, morally questionable darker side he became pure bad ass
I just saw this episode again last week on Netflix and just sat there flabbergasted. Avery Brooks is phenomenal in this role. Forget your quabbles about semantics- praise the writing and Avery Brooks. Only a great actor and great writers can pull off such a moving, disturbing piece.
I agree with your judgement. This is an exellent episode & one of my favourites. I do however think that the Obsidian order should have included some martial arts training. Poor Garak can' even avoid Sisko's lame punches... Strange for a secret agent;-)
This is part of the reason why DS9 remains my favorite Trek. I applaud Gene for giving us a glimpse into the potential of mankind via TOS, whose proud tradition carried on through TNG and Voyager, but I am very glad that tradition took a sharp left turn at DS9. The issues and moral quandaries on display in many episodes of DS9 mirror what we are seeing in the world today. How does a good man, a family man, a Senator, a CEO...a President...live with decisions that are morally wrong? This is how.
Dude, the conversation between Garak and Sisko is a fucking dialogue. That's what I was referring to. Jesus you guys are insane. Just enjoy the video.
Man, I remember when this amazing episode came on, and how the ending left me rattled. I was like,"It's just a matter of time until Starfleet finds out and this brother's going to jail!" like Capt. Picard will be coming after him in another episode.
Dude, the conversation between Garak and Sisko is a fucking dialogue. That's what I was referring to. Jesus you guys are insane. Just enjoy the video.
@WildGunsTomcat Actually, "Dia" doesn't mean "two", it means "through".. as in talking through a subject. This could be called a dialogue. "Monologue" is a back formation and the "mono" does mean "single", but is not the opposite of a dialogue.
@WildGunsTomcat ERRRRRR get out of your basements errrrrrrr ..hahahahaa.. you live in your moms garage who the fuck are you to make fun of anyone ..This guys real Name Is eric hes 42 lives in his moms basement and works at taco bell ..YOU WIN AT LIFE ERIC
This is why I love this series so much, with all its shades of gray, most notably the character of Garak. To have a character like that in a recurring role, daring it to explore every facet of it, was a bold move on the part of the creators. And Sisko is the best anyway.
This is why Sisko was the best. Sisko not only erased the line in the sand but he redrew it and dared anyone to cross it. I love Kirk & Picard but they would never have done this, that wich was necessary.
The writing, development, and portrayal of Garak was of a caliber of such excellence, it is rarely matched by any other. In my mind garak is up there with Spock and Picard as far as character quality. The writers simply did a fantastic job with Garak, and no actor could play him better than Robinson.
@shl1014 You said it man... you should check out the novel A Stitch in Time by Andrew J Robinson. Its the man who played Garak for 7 years (obviously) and he wrote a book after the series about garaks life leading up to his exile, etc. I recommend the read. its available as an ebook download too.
The guy btw has an interesting acting life. Namely due to a role as a serial killer he got death threats (causing him to get an unlisted phone number) and had a hard time finding work for years since he was typecasted as a serial killer.
@shl1014 No problem man, the book is worth reading. Mr. Robinson is an actor primarily but he can write pretty well, too. If you leave your e-mail, I can send you the .PDF version of the book. It is really hard to find in stores (at least where I live in Canada, its out of print and rare). So let me know, and I can hook you up. :)
It is scenes like this why DS9 is my favorite of the Star Trek series. I didn't care for the series at first but it grew on me and only got better and better as it went along.
maybe my fav episode of alltime. all series combined.
garak is one of my fav characters!
bluegrassreb1 1 day ago
The difference between TNG and DS9 is when Sisko says, "If I had to do it all again, I would."
ElizabethR1558 2 days ago
I was never a fan of the 'updated' Cardassian neck on Garak. The layers of scales don't seem to flex well.
Uridien 3 days ago
@Uridien Garak would say it's best not to dwell on such minutia ;).
curtisag 2 days ago
Garak is a scheming, calculating, conniving MFer who cannot be trusted...but you definitely want him on your side.
outsideredge 6 days ago 2
2:01 "I don't use my pimp hand often but when I do, I make sure it comes strong. Stay pimpin my friends."
jollyyellow 6 days ago
he can live with it...*legs cross* rofl
MyLastTrick 6 days ago
This is my fav episode :D
MutantHippie 1 week ago
Star Trek captains diplomatic methods:
Archer: Uh hi guys, we're humans and we're not here to take the women.
Kirk: Dialogue...punch
Picard: Extended cultural greetings and refinement.
Janeway: Greetings we're...shut up Paris/Kim/Torres, get those out of my face Seven
Sisko: *PUNCH* I'M THE SISKO BITCH!
PTKilowatt 1 week ago
@PTKilowatt Nah, Janeway is more "Wait, what's my characterization this week?" she's as likely to kill you as be diplomatic, and there's strong evidence that her scattered personality is actually a form of Schizophrenia.
mortman200 6 days ago
@mortman200 Good point...
But still not as strong as Sisko's fist.
PTKilowatt 6 days ago
@PTKilowatt Actually, I misspoke. I meant to say Bipolar, not schizophrenic.
mortman200 6 days ago
@mortman200 Well dealing with perpetual whiners like Paris or Torres would give anybody a mental disorder of some kind lol.
PTKilowatt 5 days ago
This is why DS9 is the best. I love this more than Star Wars.
MasterStryfe 1 week ago
At 1:50 : The Sisko is pissed off and he's coming for you.
tcheightyeight 1 week ago
This episode demonstrated yet again that DS9 was far superior to TNG and Voyager - the setting largely dispensed with the shallow utopianism of its sister shows to deliver a far deeper, more morally-flexible experience. Watching TNG now is embarrassing, but DS9 is still great TV.
MrSinister1979 1 week ago
That's the Sisko... my favorite Trek Character of all time.
sixshooter500 1 week ago
This is absolutely wretched and heart-rending.. poor chap, reduced to drinking out of a flower vase.
intermender 1 week ago
DS9 is, without doubt, the jewel in the Star Trek Universe. Complex characters who aren't the pure examples of humanity that Roddenberry wanted to portray. Multiple series arcs (perhaps borrowing from Babylon 5) that rewarded the viewer and performances that were always pitched absolutely perfectly.
TheFamilySlitheen 1 week ago 9
@TheFamilySlitheen Yes it was. That's because Roddenberry was dead...and Ron Moore took the gloves off and started some real sci fi writing. He kept the "heart" of Trek in there...but he showed the characters going through more realistic issues and showed them reacting to those issues in a more human way. It was easily the best Trek series ever...and it was overlooked by people that didn't give it a chance.
WildGunsTomcat 1 week ago 7
@WildGunsTomcat it is the only Star trek series that I've ever watched that made me want to come back to it again and again. You're right about it being overlooked which is a real shame as this show had everything that was missing from TNG, heart and soul.
The interplay between characters was brilliant (who would have thought Bashir would have become such a close friend to O'Brien), the Dominion proved to be so much more a threat than the Borg ever did and it ended on a high.
TheFamilySlitheen 1 week ago
IDK, you can go about it in many different ways.
Certainly, DS9 was great. I enjoyed it, TOS and TNG.
However, is it Trek? In a sense, Trek was Roddenberry's vision.
You say those humans in the other shows were perfect, I say they weren't.
BUT, I say that they conformed to Roddenberry's vision of surpassing our current humanity and being BETTER people.
Is that so bad? Why would you rather see the more classical 'tragic heroes' who succumb to the lows of humanity?
Foxstab 1 week ago
@Foxstab The difference is they never had to deal with a large-scale threat like the Dominion, the kind that consistently used infiltration and subversion in the form of shape-shifters. Things change very very quickly when you're under attack from any and all directions.
Plus, given what Sisko has to face and contend with, I'd postulate that he's still a better human than anyone today would be in his situation.
PTKilowatt 5 days ago
@PTKilowatt A subversive threat? No. A large scale threat? Yes. The Borg were more direct, but they were the juggernaut. And eventually, they would've come in force. In great numbers.
Foxstab 5 days ago
@WildGunsTomcat Well said, it's tragic when fans skip over this series simply because it wasn't the Ideal universe people were used to. Also, it's strange that Voyager did so much better despite it's own flaws.
vguyver2 3 days ago
@TheFamilySlitheen Perfectly put. I love Gene's vision. But its hard to make an arguement against the idea that DS9 (at times)went against his vision..In his vision humanities future is a near perfect optimistic paradise. In DS9, humanity has moments that it shows that it still has lots of room to grow. Both ideas are great, I say Gene created the vision and DS9 expanded on it.
Neomac316 3 days ago
"Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people – as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts... deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers... put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time... and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces, look at their eyes."-Quark
vguyver2 3 days ago
@Neomac316 Well said indeed! People blame Rick Berman for ruining the franchise, but in reality, he & others on his staff brought it to what it always should have been. Major Kira said (to paraphrase), that the universe isn't perfect & people just aren't the nice, peaceful species everyone thinks they are.
She hit it right on the head with that one & Gene had no imput at all on that truthful writing. Gene set the stage, Rick built it to what it became.
Trekker1801 2 days ago
@Trekker1801 I agree to a certain extent. But when Voyager came in 1995, Rick Berman's attention was diverted to making Voyager the franchise show, freeing Ira Stephen Behr to do more war oriented storylines and less optimistic but more of a realist view of the future. I respect Berman because he is the co-creator but he did object to the more violent storylines and the length of th Dominion War stor arc. I think thats someof the reasons some people dont like Bermans handling of the franchise.
Neomac316 2 days ago
@Neomac316 You're absolutely right. I didn't like the length of the Dominion storyline (much like I felt they carried the Xindi story too long on Enterprise as well). I heard a good quote about Rick that said, "They needed rick Berman to ruin Star Trek so he could save it". I understand that to a point, but there seems to be a much deeper meaning to it that only those that worked with him could spell out.
Either way I feel the franchise did well enough to keep us fans happy for the most part.
Trekker1801 2 days ago
Oh man, this episode was so good.
ruirid 1 week ago
i loved ds9 because out of all the treks, it was the only one with a series continutity. you wanted to see what was going on in the war. every episode led up to another part of the story not just a new episode. plus the characters were more fished out than any other series.
420methos 1 week ago
It's blasphemy to some but I think DS9 is better than TNG. Don't get me wrong TNG is great, but everyone on TNG was too perfect. You knew Data, Picard, Riker, etc were all knights in shining armor who did everything perfectly, but the characters on DS9 were nuanced and multi-layered. I also loved the large supporting cast and all the great recurring characters (like Dukat, who is the best ST villian of all time, imo).
RockBanned 2 weeks ago 7
@RockBanned Eh, Dukat was a great Villain for the first few seasons. Then, they stranded him on a planet with Sisko where they decided to make him pure evil... Of course, from my perspective, Sisko goated him into being more of a prick than he is (seriously, he was noticeably unstable, and Sisko EGGED HIM ON). Later, he becomes a demon. That's not a great villain, that's an absolutely silly one. He's a great villain who was DESTROYED by bad writing in DS9's later seasons.
goji2099 2 weeks ago
@goji2099 Well, yeah I think once Ziyal died he became more one-dimensional, but until then he was really nuanced and a well written villian. I still stand by my opinion that he's the greatest ST villian. I mean, who else was better really? The Borg had no personality, Q is more funny than sinister, and none of the villians from VOY lasted long.
Who, in your opinion is better? Btw, I'm not being confrontational, I'm honestly curious from one ST fan to the next, you know your stuff :)
RockBanned 2 weeks ago
@RockBanned I'm going to go out on a limb and say something that will mess with a lot of Star Trek Fans- Arik Soong. Arik Soong was always that wildcard. While not a bad guy perse, even when being heroic you never could fully trust him. He was well written, and extremely well developed. In his episodes, you could always feel what he was feeling, despite never knowing what he was thinking. Dukat was a fantastic Villain, but sort of like Q, I couldn't take him seriously by the end.
goji2099 2 weeks ago
@goji2099 Ah I can agree with this. I personally like Dukat better, but all of your points are dead on about Arik. It helps when you have the best actor in Star Trek playing the character (yes I didn't forget about Patrick Stewart).
Which isn't to say Spiner is better than Stewart overall...no of course not. But he's better IN Star Trek. Acting as Data was superb; he created a deep character that you could connect with and he wasn't allowed to portray (much) emotion.
RockBanned 2 weeks ago
@RockBanned ABSOLUTELY. DS9 is leagues ahead of TNG as far as character development and story. TNG still had the stink of Roddenberry on it...and it tried to get away with it after he died but the damage was done. The characters' paths were set. I can't watch TNG anymore because I see the flaws in the premise and it honestly bores me.
WildGunsTomcat 1 week ago
@RockBanned Yes. I like story and simply put while TNG was good its focus on exploration came at the cost of limited story arcs. Sure the Borg was cool and Q was fun but other than Worf and Data there was little character development and a two part episode was about as close to a story arc as they got.
jollyyellow 6 days ago
The Dominion War arc saved an otherwise mediocre iteration of Trek. Always loved Sisko
RayDequina 2 weeks ago
Sisko's got one Hell of a backhand.
aerliss 2 weeks ago
Before I saw this, I would never have suspected that Sisko could have some creepiness factor.
But yeah, It's a war going on there...
KendrixTermina 2 weeks ago
I just hold this series in so much higher regard. Now, if someone could just tell me why Sisko changed his hairstyle, I'd be set.
goomba25 2 weeks ago
@goomba25 he was losing his hair!
wendywilliamsfans 2 weeks ago
@goomba25 Avery Brooks always had the bald head/goatee look before DS9, but since he was on Spenser for Hire, that look became tied to his character on that show, so he grew his hair and shaved his beard to look different. But after a few seasons, he became more tied to Sisko, so he could change back to his normal look.
RockBanned 2 weeks ago
This is why the Cardassians are awesome.
WPT1776 2 weeks ago
Sisko is at his best when he is yelling and hitting people.
LivesForJihad 2 weeks ago
this is exactly why Avery Brooks is an Awesome ass actor and why DS9 is/was the best ST series EVER.
cromt 3 weeks ago 4
I am going through all the Trek's in order of series, not date aired. I'm finishing up DS9 and just watched this episode Friday. I couldn't take my eyes away from it and usually watch while doing some work, couldn't tear myself away. Loved this episode and the breaking down of the 4th wall was fantastic. This is why I think people should not give Star Trek to just cheesy acting, but DS9 was the one that brought it out the best.
cain1k 3 weeks ago
DS9 is so important because DS9 provides the proof for the other series. Showing that the characters are capable of just as many highs and lows as us proves that they are the same as us, so when, in other episodes and shows, we see people getting along and working together for the common good, we know that it is a product of their culture and philosophy and not some kind of inborn condition. It says to us that we could be where they are.
Sairin13 3 weeks ago
This episode helped changed my life!
gobby110 3 weeks ago
Regardless of what he had to do in this episode, Sisko is still a good man. A hell of a leader... one of the best Captains in Star Trek. He remains the Sisko!
terrywest111 3 weeks ago
which ep is this??
DazedSpy2 1 month ago
@DazedSpy2 The ST:DS9 episode is called "In The Pale Moonlight" it is episode 19 of season 6.
Rayvyn007 4 weeks ago
4 people couldn't live with it.
Vejitatheouji 1 month ago 9
This episode is easily Avery Brooks' best performance on DS9.
ImmortalfireTheMod 1 month ago 4
I just heard Captain Sisko got arrested on suspicion of DUI, let's see Garak get you out of this one.
skulldudes 1 month ago
One of the best episode ever. Avery Brooks is magic.
matthewcagl 1 month ago
This is the best episode of DS9, because it tells the sentient cost of war and the terror that is necessary for a war to conclude. Sisko is one of the few that would admit that horror.
origLennin 1 month ago
Garak forgot about those 4 security guards that were sacrificed too :P
danielk6761 1 month ago
You planted it didn't you. You planted this bomb despite all the people you knew would be watching!!
rohanno1 1 month ago
i cant imagine sisko with no beard it just doesn't seem right with out it
Gamezonemachinima 1 month ago
SISKO | GARAK 2012
MaryFromTheCenterSun 1 month ago 17
Sisko was the one Starfleet captain I could believe would carry a wallet with the words BAD ASS MOTHER FUCKER on it.
Effedup 1 month ago
"somehow miraculously survived the explosion".......I don't know why, but the way Garak says that is just brilliant!!!!! :D
Dippers85 1 month ago 5
Sisko essentially pulls off a Section 31 style op. To Hell with Julian, they should have tried to recruit good old Benjamin.
ryokomocha 1 month ago 2
Hell YEAH! Mr. Garak, one of the most complex, nuanced, well-acted and simply COOLEST characters in all of Star Trek.
ryokomocha 1 month ago 6
I do so love that scene!
TheDisneylover23 1 month ago
DS9 and Babylon 5 are my absolute favorite science shows. (Yes that's right; they are tied at # 1.)
.
Go Captain Sisko. Go Captain Sinclair & Sheridan. Save the galaxy from tyranny. :-)
.
harleykman 1 month ago
so good!
SquallCloud 1 month ago
This has always been one of my most favourite Trek episodes in any series of all time. Avery's acting throughout it is simply superb. His wrestling with his conscience is palpable. The writing in the final Garak/Sisko scene - simply fantastic. Never had the means to an end been so boldly justified. This episode does away with the innocence of the Trek universe and shows what war does to the noble and the innocent.
macktheinterloper 2 months ago 4
best part "Computer Delete personal log"
ks610 2 months ago 2
Darkest episode of Deep Space 9, by far. But quite possibly the realest episode of any show, ever. God this show was a masterpiece, it along with Lost are the only TV series' that find their way into your heart like the greatest of novels. I love it even more now than when I watched it on WB56-WLVI Boston as a primary schooler. The fact that the garish, tacky TOS got 6 1/2 movies and DS9 got zero is an awful injustice.
trilobright 2 months ago 5
@trilobright I know! DS9 has always been my favorite. Even better than TNG. However, the entire second half of the series is all about war and that's a movie within itself. The last 14 episodes of the series is the longest story arc ever in Star Trek.
nytehawx 1 month ago 2
@nytehawx Minor correction..... Only the last 10 are part of the same arc. "We knew we couldn't wrap-up the show in just one episode, so we crafted a 10-episode long storyline to bring proper closer to the show." - Producer Ronald D Moore
.
harleykman 1 month ago
@harleykman Thanks for correcting me. And yes, it should have a proper ending such that we understand what's going on.
Why do people prefer TNG to DS9 and VOY?
nytehawx 1 month ago
@trilobright DS9 Is my favorite Star Trek series, but I think fans have a tendency to sell the other series short. Now that I've finally gotten around to working my way through TOS and TNG I've been quite impressed with many episodes. I'm not saying that any of them are perfect, (and DS9 has "Run Along Home" among others) but those series rise just as high as DS9 at their best. I also think it would be hard to pull of a DS9 movie. TOS/TNG are episodic, arcs need more than 2 hours.
rngwrldngnr 2 weeks ago
what ep was this?
MrSimbamona 2 months ago
@MrSimbamona The episode is season 6's "In the Pale Moonlight." Call it the ultimate betrayal of Gene's vision if you like, but the story itself is fantastic.
Octavius433 2 months ago
What season of the show did the grey and black suits come into play? I'm currently on Season 4
JPM2875 2 months ago
@JPM2875 5
netardus 2 months ago
@JPM2875 Season 5 in "Rapture" There was a reference to the uniform change in the episode. Its interesting to note that all of the old DS9 uniforms were sent to Voyager because Voyager had a smaller budget than Deep Space Nine.
japstoryeditor 2 months ago
0:03 That's what she said.
AmrasCalmacil18 2 months ago
When I was watching DS9 I never felt that it was some preachy military adventure. It was about people that weren't all tied to Star Fleet. Garak, Gul Dukat, Kira Nyres. Quark. Morn. Nog. Grand Negus Zek, Constable Odo. Bron. I could keep going. But atleast 2/3 of the DS9 Cast were not part of Star Fleet. So it was more about alien people than about the fantasy about discovering aliens.
DS9 was about exploring different alien people/TNG was about exploring different alien myths.
Baltimoreman78 2 months ago
An yet when you go into space, you have only an handful of humanoid beings with extreme cultural flaws that make them almost unreal. An yet no subcultures. No sub-Races outside of the Vulcan/Romulan Split.
An lets not forget one thing...Star Trek is Futurist Military Show. Star Fleet is a Space Militia. A Galactic Brigade. Not to many stories about the ST Universe outside of Star Fleet were they're?
Baltimoreman78 2 months ago
The difference between Star Trek TNG&DS9 is that Gene Rod has his prints all over TNG were as DS9 was a real future. Now TNG was no ST-OS but modernized view of the future usually look better than goofy/dreamy images from 40 to 50 years prior.
The simple fact is most ST episodes deal with fantasy where no racial issues ever existed. The future is socially perfect where humanity has no need for anything.
Poverty doesn't exist. Violence, War, Cultural image and other thing are gone.
Baltimoreman78 2 months ago
This is why DS9 was better than TNG by far...cutthroat sinister characters.
Baltimoreman78 2 months ago 2
@Baltimoreman78 opinion, not widely shared.
fpsBeaTt 2 months ago
@Baltimoreman78 Agreed-in the sense that DS9 featured real characters-as in, yeah, this might really happen. I love Picard, but Sisko was real, he was flawed.
Caitlinbp 2 months ago
@Baltimoreman78 Yes, look at the character of Garak. He had walked the halls of power, been exiled and was reviled by everyone. Yet he remained himself through it all, living by his own code. Which could be summed up as "Never let your morals get in the way of doing the right thing."
fancylong 2 months ago 3
I'm watching this with YouTube the snowflakes... Makes it even more awesome!
Furball2k 2 months ago
"(Plus Dialogue for all you nitpickers out there.)"...
Aaahahahahahahaha
Only on the Internet would you need to point something like that out... :P
deepatel123 2 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
DS9 was great, it had a great writing staff, Brannon Braga didnt write a single episode for DS9 thats why the scripts were always top toch, Rick Berman help write a two parter in season 2 but thats it in DS9's entire run..
kd84afc 2 months ago
...to bad erased logs could be recovered and there we have it, a premiss for another Star Trek novel. Oh joy!
DreamGTS 2 months ago
Indeed, one of my all-time favourite sequences from DS9.
fiatknox 2 months ago
Clearly one of the best episodes and one of my favorites.
icreate922 3 months ago
the reason why he was so good is that like Patrick Stewart, Avery Brooks is a shakespearian actor.
ndileonardo 3 months ago
DS9 easily had the best acting of any Star Trek series.. or most any other show for that matter..
mkpcapecod 3 months ago 32
@mkpcapecod TV guide once said that "It was the greatest show, that no one watched" or something like that. I love this show! This, BSG, and The West Wing for life!
bsgtrekfan88 1 month ago
It's episodes like this that make DS9 the best Trek of all, because it treated its characters as real people, not paragons of virtue. Sisko was faced with a choice of two evils: compromise his ethics or risk trillions of lives and the destruction of the Federation. His only mistake was forgetting that everything worthwhile has a cost.
daviddrakehunter 3 months ago 56
@daviddrakehunter word and well said; i mean i LOVE TNG but in retrospect picard had little or no flaws, could find answers to lifes most unanswerable questions and was just like a demi-god of virtue and skill. of course he's the fan fave: he's effinf PERFECT!
LamonicBomb 1 month ago
@daviddrakehunter The best part of the episode is not just that Sisko made his choice. If this was TOS or TNG, he would have gotten caught and the whole operation backfired. It almost did here (and certainly looks that way when he posts the list), but Sisko got away with it. No one on the "good guys" side lost except for Sisko compromising his ethics.
goomba25 2 weeks ago
@daviddrakehunter spot on apart from the last line. it's still star trek and actions like this should be abhorrent to trek characters.
philyburkhill1 2 weeks ago
Seeing this I feel bad that I didn't stick with DS9 until it got interesting.
starmirth 3 months ago
This was probably the most controversial episode ever. And one of the best, in my opinion.
Crymson1 3 months ago 2
so chilling it gives me the shakes
333oceanbreeze 3 months ago
This episode was EPIC, defo in the top 10 episode of ds9 if not all trek!
monkeyhanger83 3 months ago
That is one of the greatest moments of the series. Sisko coming to terms and venting his deception to save the entire world (his world/ entire quadrant).
StuffedAnimalAdvisor 3 months ago
wow Garak I would hate to be on the wrong side of him
Thestuka1 4 months ago 3
@saiyanmage Do a little research, then come back and talk shit. Moron.
WildGunsTomcat 4 months ago
@saiyanmage
Hey stupid. You must be a fat American idiot. You see, in England...where I live...things are spelled properly. Educate yourself before you call someone else an idiot. Faggot.
WildGunsTomcat 4 months ago
@WildGunsTomcat
So you're saying it's spelled Dialouge? Clearly you've never opened a fucking book. Looool.
saiyanmage 4 months ago
@saiyanmage
Dialogue. Dialogue (sometimes spelled dialog in American English[1]) is a literary and theatrical form consisting of a written or spoken conversational exchange between two or more people.
Monologue. In theatre, a monologue (or monolog) is a speech presented by a single character, most often to express their thoughts aloud, though sometimes also to directly address another character or the audience.
Now, will you fucking muppets shut the fuck up?
WildGunsTomcat 4 months ago
@saiyanmage
Also, say one more thing on my page negative or derogatory, and I'll go ahead and block you.
WildGunsTomcat 4 months ago
@WildGunsTomcat
So I used one swear word and you're all like "derogatory" and stuff. HAHA!
Look at your own top comment, you swore.
Congrats, you are now a hypocrite.
saiyanmage 4 months ago
@saiyanmage and WildGunsTomcat I'm not sure what everyone's issue is.
The episode was pretty much a flashback. Sisko was monologing to his computer/log/journal. ITs dialogue in the scenes of the flashback.
While its somewhat entertaining to watch yall argue about this, is this really worth shouting at each other for it. Your arguing over a technicality in the bloody title.
StuffedAnimalAdvisor 3 months ago
@StuffedAnimalAdvisor Eh? I was just bored.
saiyanmage 3 months ago
its scenes like this that make DS9 better than TNG, imo
rodrommel 4 months ago 2
This was my favorite scene in all of DS9.
cloudstone123 4 months ago
Garak was awesome, he was so charming and likeable but at the end of the day he was a complete bastard who would stab his friends in the back if it served his purposes, you couldnt trust him further than you could throw him. Sisko is also awesome, he was a bit flat in the early seasons, but once they brought out his ruthless, morally questionable darker side he became pure bad ass
TheRhinehart86 4 months ago 3
Best. Trek. Episode. EVER!!!!!!
brie015 4 months ago
Fucking Garak owns.
Metathran 4 months ago 2
I remember the first time I watched this on tv....Instant classic I remember saying to myself.
inquiry10 4 months ago
It's a Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!
fenrar36 4 months ago 5
I just saw this episode again last week on Netflix and just sat there flabbergasted. Avery Brooks is phenomenal in this role. Forget your quabbles about semantics- praise the writing and Avery Brooks. Only a great actor and great writers can pull off such a moving, disturbing piece.
TheGreatMerman 4 months ago 2
I have seen this episode at least 5 times and it never gets boring.
quizzisation 4 months ago in playlist quizzisation最愛的影片
that last line... shivers down my spine every single tie.
amezzeray2 4 months ago
Probably one of my favorite episodes. Great dialogue. Great energy.
BUT best dialogue? I think "Far Beyond The Stars" has it beat (YouTube: 8xKo6-xu6dc)
mistermarcusgmail 4 months ago
I agree with your judgement. This is an exellent episode & one of my favourites. I do however think that the Obsidian order should have included some martial arts training. Poor Garak can' even avoid Sisko's lame punches... Strange for a secret agent;-)
ladythalia 4 months ago
@ladythalia Garak was probably TOO well trained. If he had fought back against Sisko, he probably would have killed him instinctively.
Calriec 4 months ago 2
@ladythalia Well, he *does* consider an interrogation chamber to be more civilized than hand-to-hand combat. I guess this is why.
WavemasterAshi 4 months ago
I have not seen this episode. :O :P
Which episode is this? :P
Thanks for uploading! ^^
Sorry, I am not speak english. ^^"
KenpachiMayuri 4 months ago
mutherf@#ing garak!great actor,great character.
mad4you1000 5 months ago
Hm! I know there's Monologue and Dialogue but is there such thing as TRIalogue???? Three people talking? : D
TheRadical42 5 months ago
@TheRadical42 That's called a discussion.
HEN000y 4 months ago
yes the greatest dialogue of ds9, i agree! garak and sisko! :)
lunaseraph1 5 months ago
Sisko kicks ass 8)
JoeGibb1994 5 months ago
I love this episode. On top of it, that last line sounded like Sisko was trying to convince himself.
Xerock 5 months ago
This is part of the reason why DS9 remains my favorite Trek. I applaud Gene for giving us a glimpse into the potential of mankind via TOS, whose proud tradition carried on through TNG and Voyager, but I am very glad that tradition took a sharp left turn at DS9. The issues and moral quandaries on display in many episodes of DS9 mirror what we are seeing in the world today. How does a good man, a family man, a Senator, a CEO...a President...live with decisions that are morally wrong? This is how.
daviddrakehunter 5 months ago 2
This is Monologue, not Dialogue, a narration.
rad4life1 5 months ago
@rad4life1
Dude, the conversation between Garak and Sisko is a fucking dialogue. That's what I was referring to. Jesus you guys are insane. Just enjoy the video.
WildGunsTomcat 5 months ago 39
@WildGunsTomcat I'm picky :p so there lol
rad4life1 5 months ago
@WildGunsTomcat I enjoyed the vid for what its worth, im sorry people drive you nuts with stupid shit >.>
TheDrowWarrior1 5 months ago
@WildGunsTomcat
Man, I remember when this amazing episode came on, and how the ending left me rattled. I was like,"It's just a matter of time until Starfleet finds out and this brother's going to jail!" like Capt. Picard will be coming after him in another episode.
peppybird 4 months ago
@peppybird That might make a good Star Trek movie
StuffedAnimalAdvisor 3 months ago
To unspecific command to the computer! It might have erased every entry he ever made to the log.
blenderpanzi 5 months ago
Actually this is a monologue, not a dialogue.
harisapost 5 months ago
@harisapost
Dude, the conversation between Garak and Sisko is a fucking dialogue. That's what I was referring to. Jesus you guys are insane. Just enjoy the video.
WildGunsTomcat 5 months ago 8
@WildGunsTomcat OK, relax!!
harisapost 5 months ago
@WildGunsTomcat Maybe you should have edited the video down to just that then, to stop these moments of confusion?
PipBoy5555 5 months ago
@PipBoy5555
Or maybe you people should stop being such nazis and just enjoy the video? ;0)
I mean for real guys, if you have to nitpick like this you should leave your collective basements and go outside for a while.
WildGunsTomcat 5 months ago 27
@WildGunsTomcat Hey I couldn't care less either way, the video was awesome. T'was just a suggestion to stop THEM moaning.
PipBoy5555 5 months ago
@WildGunsTomcat Actually, "Dia" doesn't mean "two", it means "through".. as in talking through a subject. This could be called a dialogue. "Monologue" is a back formation and the "mono" does mean "single", but is not the opposite of a dialogue.
jacksawild 4 months ago
@WildGunsTomcat ERRRRRR get out of your basements errrrrrrr ..hahahahaa.. you live in your moms garage who the fuck are you to make fun of anyone ..This guys real Name Is eric hes 42 lives in his moms basement and works at taco bell ..YOU WIN AT LIFE ERIC
essanance 3 months ago
@harisapost There r both in this clip stfu and watch it
weather12guy 4 months ago
This is why I love this series so much, with all its shades of gray, most notably the character of Garak. To have a character like that in a recurring role, daring it to explore every facet of it, was a bold move on the part of the creators. And Sisko is the best anyway.
selysia 5 months ago
This is why Sisko was the best. Sisko not only erased the line in the sand but he redrew it and dared anyone to cross it. I love Kirk & Picard but they would never have done this, that wich was necessary.
diamondperidot 5 months ago
The writing, development, and portrayal of Garak was of a caliber of such excellence, it is rarely matched by any other. In my mind garak is up there with Spock and Picard as far as character quality. The writers simply did a fantastic job with Garak, and no actor could play him better than Robinson.
shl1014 5 months ago 3
@shl1014 You said it man... you should check out the novel A Stitch in Time by Andrew J Robinson. Its the man who played Garak for 7 years (obviously) and he wrote a book after the series about garaks life leading up to his exile, etc. I recommend the read. its available as an ebook download too.
alextoob1 5 months ago
@alextoob1 Oh wow! I will indeed check that out. I had no idea he wrote a book. Thanks!
shl1014 5 months ago
@shl1014
The guy btw has an interesting acting life. Namely due to a role as a serial killer he got death threats (causing him to get an unlisted phone number) and had a hard time finding work for years since he was typecasted as a serial killer.
toomanyaccounts 5 months ago
@shl1014 No problem man, the book is worth reading. Mr. Robinson is an actor primarily but he can write pretty well, too. If you leave your e-mail, I can send you the .PDF version of the book. It is really hard to find in stores (at least where I live in Canada, its out of print and rare). So let me know, and I can hook you up. :)
alextoob1 5 months ago
Just like bush lied to get us into iraq, but he will never admitt it
altha2008 5 months ago
And this yet another example why DS9 was THE BEST star trek series ever.
Bantoo00 5 months ago 7
ds9 was very different from all the utopian star treks before it, it was great! one if the best episodes.
prussia23 6 months ago 3
It is scenes like this why DS9 is my favorite of the Star Trek series. I didn't care for the series at first but it grew on me and only got better and better as it went along.
Shango 6 months ago
Nero was right about the federation then afterall XD
intermender 6 months ago