how can force someone to have a child, when their still a child themselves. fifteen! IM fifteen and i would not want to have to raise a child. and my parents would not help. like, "i have this baby. its screaming. its crying. its cold. its hungry. and there's nothing i can do about it." WHOS BRIGHT IDEA IS THAT??
why is it that ppl have nothing to say about these asian countries and in India where its okay to kill babies once they find out the child is female? but everyone is talking about how abortion is wrong, its ungodly, a human life is being destroyed. both those situations, children are being killed.
" i noticed that people that are for abortion are already born" Ronald reagan,
for all you pro abortionist, think about this, waht if your mom attempted an abortion on you and it failed? your born deformed, and you find out what they did, how would you feel, and if you think a fetus is not a baby your an idiot, because they are, you just can't admit it because then you'd be committing a crime! besides from research i did it is very painful for that baby when it dies
@nlightened2, well, people will and have argued that the child was not conceived in love, hence, it is a form of torture for the mother to have to carry it and risk her life through the birthing process, etc.
@1stLtDavis Certainly the child is at a disadvantage from the beginning but many children are disadvantaged and do quite well. To execute the innocent is not the answer, nor is it to let the guilty of such a crime live. Only life itself can judge such a child. Let the child have its chance at life. The rapist had his chance........ and failed.
@nlightened2, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I think you misunderstood the substance of my statement.
What I was saying, and what is an actual fact, is that if one wants to consider the unborn a distinct "person" at any or all stages of pregnancy....then you've defeated your own cause - in lieu of the 13th amendment.
Women claim their right to be free from slavery, which is what you impose on them if you force them to care for another person, the fetus in this case.
@1stLtDavis What history are you from? History has always executed murderers and / or rapists. Nowhere in history is it found that executing the innocent and letting the guilty live sound judgement!!!! This is the justice and protection that women need!
@1stLtDavis i wouldnt be surprised if she was cheating on you, you can only last for 5 minutes if that. once again u a weak limp dick bitch. and im not surprised you actually think we're animals. im done with you, i dont talk to ass hats. bye bye
@xLavenderBlossomx lmao, try reading a scholarly work for once in your pathetic life, such as Hannah Arendt's The Human Condition.
The material may be a little over your head, but her observations regarding our obvious condition of plurality, as well as our individual uniqueness, is actually quite pertinent to this subject, you twisted, intrusive fuck.
jesus christ, these are the same people that don't believe in health care for all people and support killing innocent civilians and soldiers. PRO-LIFE MY ASS.
ALL live children+mammals suffering should be the focus, I helped serving in Peace Corps. Go Vegan 4 our health, environment, Billions Animals Abused in Factory Farms (look up videos) + reduce World Hunger! Animals eat most of our grain+corn. U can save 1000's of lives go veg
followed this link from the partial birth abortion video.
Can you imagine what kind of mind can get up in themorning, kiss his wife, go to a clinic and do that all day and ... I don't care if you are Pro-choice, Pro-life, catholic or atheist or Donald Duck... something is very wrong with our society.
I'll answer more succinctly. If a 15 year old is raped by her father of course she should not be allowed to take the morning after pill. It takes a human life. Murder is murder. We do not punish the child for the criminal actions of the baby's father. Abortion should always be banned.
@MadHatter34784 So what? Perhaps if abortions are not safe it will dissuade people from having them. If you try to shoot me and teh gun backfires and kills you I don't have a whole lot of sympathy. If someone dies trying to kill her baby, then perhaps she shouldn't have tried to have the abortion.
The fact that women will die in botched coathanger back alley abortions carries no resonance with me.
If you think that way then so should guns, so should everything else americans find "Patriotic" be banned, Banning abortion won't prevent it, take argentina for example theres still over 200,000 illegal abortions per year
O.k. I've got a compromise. Sometimes it could become difficult for an adoption to take place so that child would go through some hard times. Republicans I'll make a deal you: Quit fighting gay adoption and then there will be a whole lot more people willing to take in some children.
purely from a social POV, if you outlaw abortions women will not stop having them... history in Ireland etc proves that, they will turn to back street abortions or chemical/ physiological methods that are extremely harmful. Educate, don't legislate. and read/ watch 'the cider house rules'. learn your intolerant arse.
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I don't understand why pro-choice advocates center a debate on abortion around a hypothetical case of rape. Rape and incest combined account for less than 1.5% of all abortions. (Alan Guttmacher Institute)
It's not MY baby, I have NO right to tell someone what to do with it. Just like you don't tell a parent how to raise their child, you shouldn't be allowed to revoke their right to have one or not.
@HaylieGrace, you're literally saying that the woman shouldn't abort because that child is supposed to be here, hence it was predetermined that she'd be raped at age....23 or whatever.
A sperm is not immortal, so by your logic to ensure the we don't "kill millions of possible babies" we should be having sex, to ensure no sperm is wasted. However that is ridiculous because sperm are not potential babies, they will not develop into babies inside your testicles, you are only killing sperm, not babies.
Wow, you may be the most ignorant person on earth.... firstly a sperm cell is not a HUMAN because CONCEPTION has not occurred with the ovum. Second of all, the body naturally "kills" sperm cells because they are constantly being made and so the old ones die out... sperm cells are CELLS like skin cells .. only when it joins the egg does it mean a human has been created... what a moron!
Also I hear that argument from "pro-lifers" all the time: "why punish an innocent baby for the crimes of its father?" (embryo/fetus=/=baby BTW). I just love that double standard about punishment when it comes to rape: punishing the rape victim, you know, the one who actually HAS feelings and CAN feel pain, and raping her a second time, this time with a fetus is just fine, but punishing that fetus of rape when it has no feelings, can't feel pain, breathe, think, consciously move, etc is a crime!
I hate Sarah Palin so much. Anyone who thinks that a rape victim should be forced to carry that child to term is a sick person. So they believe that the criminal, who has committed a horrible act, should have more rights then their victim. What kind of person would agree with something so inhumane? Let's just hope people like her never make it to the Supreme Court.
@Patriot3332 I Disagree, If The Woman Carries The Baby For The Whole 9 Months, 9 Times Out Of 10 Shes Probably Gonna End Up Keeping The Baby. It's A Good Idea To Just get Rid Of It Early So She Won't Develop An Emotional Attachment Later.
she's not "forcing" a raped woman to carry her rapists child, she's just against murdering an innocent unborn baby who did not wish to be conceived by its tragic situation. this is the ONLY subject i will ever agree with Palin.
And what, may I ask, did the baby do to you to where you should kill it? Don't take shit out on the purest form of human life because of what some asshole did.
1. Rape is a very, very small percent of all abortions.
2. Even if it is a rape, the aborted child is still a child, a human with a future and a life. Abortion is legal killing. Even in the situation of a rape. The child is not the raper. If I was a girl, and I got raped and pregnant, I would keep the child.
No, it's not a child. Fetuses are basically a piece of skin that will grow into a child. A child has a brain and nerves. Fetuses can't think or feel pain. They have no awareness of the abortion or anything else
Eggs and Sperm are also going to become a human being. Stop trying to take away the rights of others because of your personal opinion
I'm not trying to take away the rights of others, I'm trying to defend the rights of the children. Yes, they are children, they have a future. Just because they can't feel the pain of an abortion, it doesn't mean they don't have a future, and if they have a future, they have human rights.
Again, I'm not trying to take away the rights of others, I'm DEFENDING the rights of the children.
How can you even say these words.... a fetus feels everything!!.... a documentary once showed that the fetus was actually crying at one point because of the pain.... i cannot believe people are pro choice.... you don't know the consequences you will face...
"how can you say they dont feel anything prior to 20 weeks? they do"
No, they don't, the central nervous system isn't there prior to 20 weeks, therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to feel pain, whereas the woman obviously CAN feel pain, and child birth is EXTREMELY painful.
And yes, the fetus--not baby, FETUS--IS a parasite, it can't live without draining its mother's nutrients prior to 24 weeks. And sorry if YOU feel that it deserves to live, in the end, it's the WOMAN's choice, not yours.
Last time I checked, fetuses can't do documentaries. Do you remember when you were a fetus or do you just have to feed on lies to support your argument?
@zedude123 If it is not living then................ why do you have to kill it? Does not murdering the innocent take away all of the innocents rights? The innocent may have an opinion on this matter if............you give it a chance at life. (Just like everyone else reading this was given a chance at life.)
an egg or sperm are not in the "process" of becoming a human being, unlike those fetuses you disregarded as human life. No one should have the "right" to murder they're baby just because its unborn.
Furthermore, if I had a girlfriend, I would want her to have a choice about her reproductivity, ESPECIALLY if she were to get raped and pregnant against her will, by God, no one, and I mean NO ONE is gonna tell her what to do next. Furthermore, a child is no good if it's unwanted, so it's actually more selfish to bring it into the world unwanted and subject it to a life of hell and orphanage, it's not that it doesn't deserve life, it's that it should not be subjected to such harshness.
lol, abstract reasoning+learning doesnt make a human being, what about ppl with severe mental disablities, they sumtimes lack it? and no an 8wk fetus isnt human being by definition, but i think the presence of measurable brain activity, heartbeat, formed eyes, fingers, make it a human being
'a child is no good if it's unwanted', great abstract reasoning, youtube's so privileged to have yur so moral opinions. still its probs tru most kids would rather die than hav yu as a dad
"Some try to justify abortion by claiming that the product of conception, at least until a certain number of days, cannot yet be considered a personal human life....In reality from the moment in which the ovum is fertilized, a new life begins which is not that of the father or of the mother but of a new human being which develops of its own accord. It would NEAVER be made human if it were not human ALREADY....This has always been clear, and modern genetic science offers clear confirmation. JPII
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i dont get how abortion has anything to do with women's rights. giving birth will not kill a woman, but abortion will kill a baby, thats kinda the point. dont you think the baby's right to not be murdered comes b4 the women's to not have to give birth?
ppl that are pro life arent always the ones that neglect women's rights. they just believe in the right to live over the right to not giv birth.
btw, how is it pro choice? what choice does the baby hav thats been murdered?
Again, it's NOT a baby, it's just a clump of cells during it's first week, which is when most abortions are performed, anyway. And you're dead wrong in the case of who suffers more-an aborted embryo or fetus in it's early stages cannot feel pain of any kind, if you abort it, it won't even know it, but a woman feels incredible swarms of pain from ANY pregnancy. And you're right, a fetus does NOT have a choice since it can't even make a conscious choice to begin with!
over 500,000 women die in childbirth worldwide every year. the risk for dying in childbirth is higher than for an abortion. giving birth is not like crapping a jellybean. this has everything to do with womens rights. if women cannot fully control their fertility, they cannot participate fully in society nor can they control what their bodies are forced to experience. the body changes dramatically during pregnancy not to mention it takes years to physically recover.
ok, fair point leiapeison, but note worldwide. im not necessarily opposed to abortion being offered in the 3rd world, cos the majority of statistics come from that
but in the usa 16 out of 10 000 women die giving birth. thats tiny, less than plane crashes. i think the human life of an 8wk old fetus should be protected in western countries on those numbers. in usa, even more so in uk, australia, cos better docs than usa, abortion shouldnt be option, since woman wont die, but baby will
it may be rare, but the risk is still there. and it is not your life that is being risked it is theirs. not to mention the risk of post partum psychosis and depression which are real medical conditions. these women are protecting themselves from this assault on their dignity.
there's 100 times more chance that when you drive to the supermarket, you will die. there is no risk, women are designed to giv birth, like it or not, and in the western world, they WONT die doing it. the lives of innocent human babies should trump the numbers 16 in 10 000! you cant make an argument based on those numbers
i acknowldge depression is a real medical condition, all i can say is it is treatable, this should be free but the live of an innocent baby beats it
but nobody is forcing women to go to the supermarket. yes depression can SOMETIMES be treatable. but the pain these women live with is forever. i have talked to rape crisis workers who have counseled women who were forced to give birth under these conditions back when abortion was illegal. decades later they still have serious psychological problems. ptsd actually causes physical dmage to the brain. this is their brain not yours
"dont you think the baby's right to not be murdered comes b4 the women's to not have to give birth?"
No, because not only is it NOT murder (murder is UNLAWFUL killing, abortion is legal), but a fetus does NOT have the right to use a woman's body against her will, NO ONE does, that fetus's "right to life" stops the moment it germinates inside a woman's body because it infringes on rights of her own. Like it or not, she can remove it for whatever reason she wants to at any time, sorry kiddo.
yur a jackass. during hitler's regime it was legal for the ss to kill jews, but i suppose thats not murder? just because its legal doesnt make it right
the fetus is an innocent, living human being, at 8wks it has brain activty, and eyes and finger, etc. IT cant help using the woman's body, its every bit as innocent as she is, and more than 99% or the time, more innocent. pregnancy is perfectly normal
so the innocent life of an innocent baby comes b4 sumbodys inconvenience
so what if it cant help it? that doesnt mean it gets a free ride. you are giving the fetus more rights than she does. it gets to have the disposition of its own body and hers. something she doesnt even get. and your wording of it being an "inconveniance" shows the shallowness with which you understand rape and its repercussions. at 7 weeks it only has a brain stem. it does not hava true brain function until mid pregnancy. women being "designed" to give birth doesnt mean they should have to
do you actually hav any morals whatsoever?? a 'free ride'?? WTF? you were given a free ride, why shouldnt the fetus about to be aborted, what makes you more important than it? why shoud you hav greater rights??
mate when i used 'incovenience' i was referring to the +99% of cases, where rape was not the cause, i wrote '99% of the time more innocent'. im not shallow
at 8wks there is brain stem and brain activity, + toes, fingers, eyes, that makes it human i think
if my mind had wanted to abort me that would have been her business as it is my business if i want to abort. please reread headhunters comments. nobody gets to violate my body including a fetus. if i am forced to be pregnant my body is being violated worse than if i was forced to have sex. i will employ whatever means i have to to not be raped against my will to any degree. and the fact that you have to attack my character instead of my argument shows that you lost this debate.
im attacking yur character in saying i find yur morals obsene, if i said i approved of genocide, yude probs says the same thing
if yur 'mum' had wanted to abort you and you dont care, thats fine thats yur business. but that doesnt giv you the rite to decide that sum1 else should be killed too. i find it macabre that you lay the blame on the fetus, for actions its cant help. you would kill an innocent human just so you wouldnt be raped.
how is fending off a sexual violation make me a coward? you dont believe in equal rights for the unborn, you believe in special rights. for no born person would have the right to force me to share intimacy. it doesnt get anymore intimate than pregnancy. i dont lay blame on the fetus. i simply treat is as any other uninvited guest inside a womans body. i am not deciding that someone should be killed. i am not even advocating it. i am leaving it up to the woman. do you know what trauma is?
you need to take responsiblty, if you hav an abrtion, you are decidng sum1 shoud be killd, 'intimacy' i know yur body's being used by another, but sumtimes its necesary to care about anothrs life b4 our own discomfrt, howevr painful
i feel pity for raped women, becum pregnant, abort. but i look at 'em like i do germans who were complicit under nazis, to protect selvs
like those that stood up against the nazis, its raped women that giv birth, compassionate, that get my RESPECT
im pretty sure they dont "need" your respect or even care what the heck you think. you have admitted that you have never been raped. your comments here prove that and beyond. that you have no understanding of the vastness of trauma and what rape actually is. once again it isnt about discomfort. it goes far beyond that. a woman is not selfish for wanting her body to be her own. that is a natural human inclination and a perfectly good one. you do not believe in equality for no born person
nazis. how dare you make assumtions about me. i dont know what id do. but i sincerly hope that i wuld be the person my family b4 me were, and folow my conscience no matter what price i pay. i dont hate those that were complicit under the nazis for own sakes, i know sum personly, but i dearly hope i wuldnt be
totally irrelevant, but if you must assume. when i was 5yo, i was the only one in the skool that stood up for the black african kid, bullied by white usa kids for his race
im not saying you wouldnt but you dont know and neither do i. you say you "hope" you wouldnt. i hope i wouldnt either but im not gonna say for sure because no one knows what they would do with their back against the wall.
or raping their female relatives. many of them choice rape. other soldiers threaten to kill the women in their family also if the men do not agree to rape their female family members. again i have never been faced with that and i dont know what i would do. i dont judge those people. they do the best they can under horrific circumstances which is the same as raped women here in the states.
once again sorry for giving you such a terrible question, lets pretend you couldnt abort yourself for whatever reason, yur not sure what yude do?
fair enough. i know i would choose to be raped, or even killed, rather than let a child be killed. i know thats a truly sickening analogy, but i link this back to abortion, kill an innocent child or be raped (not that i consider giving birth rape, you do). thats my problem with abortion
let me turn this back on you. you say it should be a womans choice if her life is in danger. well lets take out the rape threat to the woman and put in death. should a woman who is facing death be allowed to kill the 6 month old across the road to prevent her own death?
im impressed, ive made a faux pas. but errare est humanum
no a woman shouldnt be allowed to kill the 6mo from across the road to save her own life. HOWEVER, this is where i err, she should be allowed to abort to save her own life. i believe women should be allowed to abort if doctors believe fetus will endanger her life. i think fetus should have right to be protected from abortion, unless endangers mums life
when i say fetus equal worth, i mean unless endangers mums life
why shouldnt she be allowed to kill the six month old? you state that she should if her life is in danger, and you state that a six month old is the same as an embryo. i would consider a swift murder to be better than being raped for 9 months straight.
ok the fetus inside her is not categorically a human being of equal rights to her. it is a human being (as of 8wks) and has the right to be protected from abortion, in all instances except when it endangers her life. so yes there is, however slight, a diffrence in rights of the born and unborn. in my opinion
sorry, its diffcult to maintain a defntion in so many different discussions
No, it isn't. It lacks ALL of the essential human characteristics to be considered a human being-it is incapable of abstract reasoning, the ability to learn, sustain life outside the womb, think, feel or breath consciously or feel pain--most abortions are done within the first 12 weeks before it even begins to develop a central nervous system. As for protection against abortion, no, it doesn't, your rights stop when they start infringing on another's rights.
No, it doesn't, because guess what? A sperm cell, cancer, bacteria, an ant and a tree are all life as well (and a sperm cell is also human, so by definition, it is ALSO "human life"), yet they don't have rights and for OBVIOUS reasons, so that argument falls flat on its ass. It doesn't matter if it's "life", all that matters is that it's not a rational, independent living organism (which is CRITICAL for obtaining human rights) since it can't live without feeding off its mother as a parasite.
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O.k since you're all with the big talk and explanations of why abortion is perfectly fine answer me this.... hypothetically, what if you were conceived and your parents chose to kill you? that is the big question but then again you're probably one of those people that doesn't care about being alive and will retort back in vain.
but im horrified that you consider it ok to kill sum1, esp a baby, to save your own life (except in case of self defense). i could understand if it were doing so in order to save a loved one's life. i can categorically say i would never kill sum1 to save myself
yur implying yude kill an innocent baby to avoid what you consider a 9 month rape. isnt this the height of selfishness? even if you consider rape worse than death, yur deciding that for a born sum1 else, so yu dont suffer
"to save your own life, Except in cases of self defense) uhm wouldnt killing it to save your own life be self defense? it isnt what i consider to be a 9 month long rape. it is that by definition. anything that is sexual that is forced is by definition sexual assault. rape has been deemed to be the ultimate violation of the mind, body and spirit. now times that by 9 months and you get a recipe for torture. i would fight to the death not to be treated so cruelly.
like ive said theres a slight difference b/w rights of born and unborn. so that givs pregnant mother right to abort the baby if it will kill her, rare though this is
self defence, i mean from sum1 deliberately trying to kill you, sum1 not innocent. baby across the street is innocent. im not sure if the definition of killing in self defence would agree with me on that, but i think a court would
also you cant legislate against selfishness. what you would deem selfish would be deemed necessary for someone else about to be in a very traumatizing situation
this has got silly but there is a difference b/w indirect and direct self defence, and courts distinguish this
by my country's military laws of engagement, if an army regiment in the desert comes across armed enemy, trying to kill them, they hav rite to engage in combat and kill
if they come across an unarmed boy, who will not directly harm them, but will defs giv their position to enemy, theyre not allowed to kill even though this is indirect self defence, still a war crime
would get to force themselves upon me to any degree much less one as intimate as pregnancy. and you werent in germany in world war 2 so dont go adn say that YOU would have the balls to stand up to the germans. there is a little phrase about walking a mile in someone elses shoes. your judgment of complete strangers is disgusting. these are issues you have no personal or relative experience with to make such judgements. you got alot of growing up to do.
yur arguments are flawed as ever. i admit that i dont understand nearly as much about rape as some unfortunate souls, but you dont understand what murder is or feels like, by that same token. thats yur mistake again
it may be a natural inclination for a woman to hav her own body, but its also a natural inclination for her to bear children, and it isnt natural for her to kill them
a fetus doesnt know what murder feels like either for it has no conscioussness. i can think of many things worse than death. death is a natural and necessary part of the life cycle. rape and torture are not. it is NOT a natural inclination for all women to bear children. many women including myself have no maternal instinct or desire to have children. and believe it or not, even many of the ones that do laothe being pregnant. it is natural to want to fend off ANY sexual violation.
ok a fetus dont know what murder is, but i do, and i cant allow it to happen to human beings
death is natural, but murder isnt natural either. i too can think of worse things, but not for me to choose death for others
yuve made a mistake saying fetus has no consciousness, feti aborted after 20wks hav been heard screaming when removed, indeed they can survive outside the womb, they hav consciousness. but i think at 8wks fetus shouldnt be abortd cos of human characteristics
if you can think of worst things than dying, what are they? mine would be torture whih forcing pregnancy would be. it can also be said that it is not for you to choose the fate of the conscious for you very well might be subjecting them to what they deem to be a fate worse than death.
worse things than dying, going to a celine dion concert is at the top of that list
but once again its not up to society to decide who should die, YOU MUST AGREE WITH THIS PRINCIPLE, death should only ever be a personal choice. and although i personally think sumthing might be worse than death, another person might not, i would rather grant them that very personal decision, than make it for them. in any case i would rather give birth than die
society wouldnt be the one deciding. it would be the woman. the fact remains that YOU wouls be making this decision for sentient women. youre right, YOU would rather give birth than die. that isnt true for everyone. anything that is sexual that is forced is by definition sexual assault. forcing childbirth on a woman is just that.
society would be deciding, by having legislation that permits abortion, society has a say in who dies, in any case the women is part of society isnt she
ok sum ppl would rather die than giv birth, listen, if you consider a fetus a human of equal worth, then sum1 else is being killed against their will, this has nothing to do with the woman dying or giving birth, just cos woman would rather die, she cant make up that decision for another to die. thats problem with yur argument
i would try and abort myself rather than kill the neighbors baby. and i would have a MUCH harder time killing a 6 month old baby than an embryo because they are not infringing on me in any way and they are sentient. theoretically though, if i had to sacrifice someones life to stop me from being raped if they were not the one the was infringing on me, i cant say for sure what i would do. no one does. in the congo, enemy soldiers kidnpa villagers and give the men a choice between being killed
trauma is when the brain is actually damaged from severe stress. this happens with rape trauma. i cant imagine how damaged her brain would be after a forced pregnancy. your insinuation that women who abort are cowards shows your arrogance and your insensitivity. i sincerely hope you never have to eat your words. for i have met women who were raped and aborted and they are strong women, with more moral fiber than you appear to have. the last thing they need is people harrassing them
i believe in almost equal rites for the unborn, that is to say only if doctors make prognosis that baby will probably kill mother, then its her choice, otherwise, its rite to life beats hers to kill it. that demonstrates i believe in equality
i hav no problem with the pro-abortion ppl that believe an 8wk fetus isnt human being, i just disagree. but this is disgraceful 'uninvited guest'
its yur child, yur dna, like yur related to yur mum. its human, not a virus
if you saw an baby having their limbs cut off then being killed, would you intervene? do you think a government should intervene if they saw such a thing? because that is what abortion is!!
a foetus is a baby, by 8 weeks it has hands, at 20 weeks it can survive without its mother, IT IS A LIVING HUMAN
This is why abortion is wrong, this is why governments ought to intervene.
i respect a woman's right of choice, but it is trumped by a baby's right to life
Wrong, a fetus is NOT a human being. Just because it has hands doesn't make it a human being. A human being is a separate, living entity that can survive on it's own, a fetus is just a parasite living inside the body that CAN NOT live without it's mother's support. Furthermore, a fetus does NOT have the right to use a woman's body against her will, no one does, one living inside a mother is a permission, not a right, and it can be denied at any time, thus, you're wrong.
DEMOCRAT VIEW: If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.
S. FAILIN'S VIEW: You staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, you're considered VERY responsible.
RepubliCANTs are Pro-LIFE, Pro-War, Pro-Death Penalty, etc. Talk about a value system that's contradictory & an oxy-moron. LOL! ~W~
So when a catholic priest (take notice of the "when" ;-)) rapes a little girl aged, say, 13 - in the name of the good lord - she should be forced to give birth to this hell spawn?
Pro choice!
Who are you to even have an opinion about other womens bodies and lives?
A woman has a complication with the embryo and in order not to die from these complications it is necessary to interfere in her pregnancy and terminate the pregnancy, say, 1-2 months into that pregnancy. The thing she has in there is a shapeless "blob" at this time.. You would based on that blob sentence this woman to die well knowing that a simple procedure could save her life - are you "pro murder"?
I believe you can definitly make the argument that our constitution is pro life. The main principles are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Just because Sarah supports it doesnt mean shes gonna elect people to get her position on it. Its not pro life telling pro choice its written clear in our founding document. But what she will do is take people who want to twist the constitution out of position
wtf! She would force a girl to have to go through the pain, embarassment and suffering of having a child When it was not even her fault! Especially when it was incest! Palin is disgusting. She is truly unsentimental to the feelings of others.
You fools! Sara Palin has more experience running governments as a commander in chief then all those other clowns put together!
She runs an economy of a small country right now, single command of military units of the Alaska National guard, has thousands of employees under her direction! controls vast amounts of our energy policies! experience? The truth is she is a danger to Obama! this women could run this nation anytime anyplace any how! Elect John and Caribou Barbie!
you know who she looks like..she looks like a stripper whose trying for position as a reception.. Trashy makeup, behind glasses, to make them look 'learned". Its pathetic.
What is the fascination of the media with abortion? They oppose the death penalty against criminals, but do favor the killing of thousand of babies by abortion. Any couple should be responsible for their acts, and if the consequence is the coming a new baby they have to face it, or otherwise give the baby in adoption, but not to kill a new life.
Choose life???? Are You Going To FUCKING PAY?????????????? Why dont you open a PALIN ORPHANAGE WORK 365 DAYS A WEEK, OTHERWISE TAX PAYERS PAY WELFARE AND MEDICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeahm "YOUR beliefs", not other people. Some people do not believe in God or believe in all of that. Religion is not important to a lot of people, so that should not affect whether they want an abortion or not
CatharineL, you are so right. I recently wrote an essay on abortion and how it is the women's choice, not the government or anyone else to make that decision for her. No one should be FORCED to have a child because the law says so. If a person so chooses to stay pregnant, that's a personal choice. If they don't, that's a personal choice.
As mayor of Wasilla, Sarah Palin cut funding for medical rape-exams for victims of sexual assault.
Palin opposed Wasilla paying for rape exams due 2 her extreme Christian views, & opposed police chief Irl Stambaugh's inclusion of the budget's line-item paying for such costs. Palin fired Stambaugh, & replaced him with Charlie Fannon, who, with Palin's knowledge & signature, cut the rape-exams from the budget & began billing Wasilla's rape victims.
how can force someone to have a child, when their still a child themselves. fifteen! IM fifteen and i would not want to have to raise a child. and my parents would not help. like, "i have this baby. its screaming. its crying. its cold. its hungry. and there's nothing i can do about it." WHOS BRIGHT IDEA IS THAT??
champion961 2 weeks ago
why is it that ppl have nothing to say about these asian countries and in India where its okay to kill babies once they find out the child is female? but everyone is talking about how abortion is wrong, its ungodly, a human life is being destroyed. both those situations, children are being killed.
piscesariescusp121 2 months ago
" i noticed that people that are for abortion are already born" Ronald reagan,
for all you pro abortionist, think about this, waht if your mom attempted an abortion on you and it failed? your born deformed, and you find out what they did, how would you feel, and if you think a fetus is not a baby your an idiot, because they are, you just can't admit it because then you'd be committing a crime! besides from research i did it is very painful for that baby when it dies
sh9683 4 months ago
Why not solve the real problem. The Rapist. Execute the rapist and let the kid have a chance at life.
Murder of the innocent solves nothing. Execution of the guilty does.
nlightened2 1 year ago
@nlightened2, well, people will and have argued that the child was not conceived in love, hence, it is a form of torture for the mother to have to carry it and risk her life through the birthing process, etc.
1stLtDavis 1 year ago 2
@1stLtDavis Certainly the child is at a disadvantage from the beginning but many children are disadvantaged and do quite well. To execute the innocent is not the answer, nor is it to let the guilty of such a crime live. Only life itself can judge such a child. Let the child have its chance at life. The rapist had his chance........ and failed.
nlightened2 1 year ago
@nlightened2, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I think you misunderstood the substance of my statement.
What I was saying, and what is an actual fact, is that if one wants to consider the unborn a distinct "person" at any or all stages of pregnancy....then you've defeated your own cause - in lieu of the 13th amendment.
Women claim their right to be free from slavery, which is what you impose on them if you force them to care for another person, the fetus in this case.
1stLtDavis 1 year ago 10
@1stLtDavis Slavery? Your attempt to be logical on this matter can be summed up quite well with only one word........... FAIL!
nlightened2 1 year ago
@nlightened2, LMFAO, apparently you are the fuckin retard here, for this is not my argument....it is the contention of Courts.
Revisit your history and or political science before leaving me such a steaming pile of shit for a comment again, okay?
1stLtDavis 1 year ago 3
@1stLtDavis What history are you from? History has always executed murderers and / or rapists. Nowhere in history is it found that executing the innocent and letting the guilty live sound judgement!!!! This is the justice and protection that women need!
nlightened2 1 year ago
@nlightened2, huh? A fetus does not qualify as a person under the Constitution nor the Courts conception of what makes a person a person.
My 13th amendment comment is the legal notion that was expressed independently by justices after both Maher v. Roe and PPH v. Casey.
In effect, even if you get a fetus to be considered a person...you've defeated your own cause, for the 13th amendment would apply to the situation.
1stLtDavis 1 year ago 2
@1stLtDavis u just dont want to take care of ur kid...
xLavenderBlossomx 9 months ago
@xLavenderBlossomx I don't have a kid, you fucking retard.
My partner gets the shots that last like 3 months or whatever, douche.
1stLtDavis 8 months ago
@1stLtDavis exactly you're not man enough to take care of a baby. you're a weak bitch
xLavenderBlossomx 8 months ago
@xLavenderBlossomx nah, I just don't want one right now. And more importantly, the woman doesn't either.
Just mind you're business and get out of womens' vaginas and uteruses.
1stLtDavis 8 months ago
@1stLtDavis why dont you follow your own advise and zip your pants up if you dont want a baby. and stop spreading STDs
xLavenderBlossomx 8 months ago
@xLavenderBlossomx that doesn't even make sense, you dumbfuck.
I can't spread any STDs if I've been married to the same woman for 3 years and neither of us have any, shit for brains.
We are sophisticated social animals. Consequently, sex is more to humans than just a way to procreate, dumbass.
1stLtDavis 8 months ago
@1stLtDavis i wouldnt be surprised if she was cheating on you, you can only last for 5 minutes if that. once again u a weak limp dick bitch. and im not surprised you actually think we're animals. im done with you, i dont talk to ass hats. bye bye
xLavenderBlossomx 8 months ago
@xLavenderBlossomx lmao, try reading a scholarly work for once in your pathetic life, such as Hannah Arendt's The Human Condition.
The material may be a little over your head, but her observations regarding our obvious condition of plurality, as well as our individual uniqueness, is actually quite pertinent to this subject, you twisted, intrusive fuck.
1stLtDavis 8 months ago
@nlightened2 its not a child its a clump of cells are you actually going to give a clump of cells rights.
mir2k9 9 months ago
@nlightened2 Completely, 100% agree with this statement.
HaylieGrace 1 year ago
@HaylieGrace Thank you. Love your music btw ;)
nlightened2 1 year ago
@nlightened2 Oh wow, thanks! =D
HaylieGrace 1 year ago
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jesus christ, these are the same people that don't believe in health care for all people and support killing innocent civilians and soldiers. PRO-LIFE MY ASS.
RoseLeeMusic88 1 year ago
Religious Prolifers?
-Adopt unwanted future kids
-Cant force them to be a parent
-More Welfare Taxes
-Human Overpopulation
-Not conscious or developed yet so no suffering
-Bank on birth control evolution
ALL live children+mammals suffering should be the focus, I helped serving in Peace Corps. Go Vegan 4 our health, environment, Billions Animals Abused in Factory Farms (look up videos) + reduce World Hunger! Animals eat most of our grain+corn. U can save 1000's of lives go veg
CannibalsEatAnimals 1 year ago
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followed this link from the partial birth abortion video.
Can you imagine what kind of mind can get up in themorning, kiss his wife, go to a clinic and do that all day and ... I don't care if you are Pro-choice, Pro-life, catholic or atheist or Donald Duck... something is very wrong with our society.
brian77ism 1 year ago
I'll answer more succinctly. If a 15 year old is raped by her father of course she should not be allowed to take the morning after pill. It takes a human life. Murder is murder. We do not punish the child for the criminal actions of the baby's father. Abortion should always be banned.
jpav0923 1 year ago
@jpav0923 Banning abortion wouldn't prevent woman from doing it. It would just force them to do it with a coat hanger in a bathroom somewhere.
MadHatter34784 1 year ago
@MadHatter34784 So what? Perhaps if abortions are not safe it will dissuade people from having them. If you try to shoot me and teh gun backfires and kills you I don't have a whole lot of sympathy. If someone dies trying to kill her baby, then perhaps she shouldn't have tried to have the abortion.
The fact that women will die in botched coathanger back alley abortions carries no resonance with me.
jpav0923 1 year ago
If you think that way then so should guns, so should everything else americans find "Patriotic" be banned, Banning abortion won't prevent it, take argentina for example theres still over 200,000 illegal abortions per year
992Pyro 1 year ago
@jpav0923 Agreed.
HaylieGrace 1 year ago
fuck sarah palain.
fuck christains
fuck femenists
fduck vegetarians
GhostfaceKillahCryx 1 year ago
O.k. I've got a compromise. Sometimes it could become difficult for an adoption to take place so that child would go through some hard times. Republicans I'll make a deal you: Quit fighting gay adoption and then there will be a whole lot more people willing to take in some children.
And181377 1 year ago
purely from a social POV, if you outlaw abortions women will not stop having them... history in Ireland etc proves that, they will turn to back street abortions or chemical/ physiological methods that are extremely harmful. Educate, don't legislate. and read/ watch 'the cider house rules'. learn your intolerant arse.
alxdnld 1 year ago
If she wouldn't imprison someone for abortion then she is pro choice
pstlwhppd 1 year ago
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I end the argument on abortion
click my name and see my video
bj07bran7 2 years ago
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I don't understand why pro-choice advocates center a debate on abortion around a hypothetical case of rape. Rape and incest combined account for less than 1.5% of all abortions. (Alan Guttmacher Institute)
rmbnrsng 2 years ago
Doesn't matter. That's still 1.5%.
juliaisafilmbuff123 2 years ago
Just because she was raped dosn't mean she can kill. I'm sorry she was raped but you can't kill because you were raped.
Darthcombo 2 years ago
Accept it's not killing, it's more like removing a cyst, or a tumor.
jbaev 2 years ago
My views are:
It's not MY baby, I have NO right to tell someone what to do with it. Just like you don't tell a parent how to raise their child, you shouldn't be allowed to revoke their right to have one or not.
Shokogogogo 2 years ago 9
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HaylieGrace 1 year ago
@HaylieGrace, you're literally saying that the woman shouldn't abort because that child is supposed to be here, hence it was predetermined that she'd be raped at age....23 or whatever.
You're one sick, deluded fuck.
Joseph565112 1 year ago 5
A sperm is not immortal, so by your logic to ensure the we don't "kill millions of possible babies" we should be having sex, to ensure no sperm is wasted. However that is ridiculous because sperm are not potential babies, they will not develop into babies inside your testicles, you are only killing sperm, not babies.
SystemPause 2 years ago
by that logic, wanking is evil
QueenChocky 2 years ago 4
quality is more important then quantity.
need to get a little perspective people.
banksie1990 2 years ago
Wow, you may be the most ignorant person on earth.... firstly a sperm cell is not a HUMAN because CONCEPTION has not occurred with the ovum. Second of all, the body naturally "kills" sperm cells because they are constantly being made and so the old ones die out... sperm cells are CELLS like skin cells .. only when it joins the egg does it mean a human has been created... what a moron!
TubbyWilliams 2 years ago
Also I hear that argument from "pro-lifers" all the time: "why punish an innocent baby for the crimes of its father?" (embryo/fetus=/=baby BTW). I just love that double standard about punishment when it comes to rape: punishing the rape victim, you know, the one who actually HAS feelings and CAN feel pain, and raping her a second time, this time with a fetus is just fine, but punishing that fetus of rape when it has no feelings, can't feel pain, breathe, think, consciously move, etc is a crime!
Headhunter004 2 years ago 3
She is a sick bitch. I hope she runs for office in 2012 and wins the nomination - Obama will blow her out
gamegeek2 2 years ago
I hate Sarah Palin so much. Anyone who thinks that a rape victim should be forced to carry that child to term is a sick person. So they believe that the criminal, who has committed a horrible act, should have more rights then their victim. What kind of person would agree with something so inhumane? Let's just hope people like her never make it to the Supreme Court.
LifeUntilLove 2 years ago 7
oh you are pro-life?
Then why do you advocate the masacre of wolves in Alaska?
105km 2 years ago 2
I think a woman should have a choice, however, "and I have actually THOUGHT about this;"
when you have an abortion it can render you sterile FOR LIFE!
So women and girls need to know, that maybe it's this baby or no babies at all, so being supportive of adoption is critical.
And fuck the pill and morning after pill, that shit poisons your body FOREVER.
Anjimom 2 years ago
"when you have an abortion it can render you sterile FOR LIFE!"
Sorry, but the medical industry has proven this commonly-told "pro-life" lie (one of many "pro-life" lies) to be untrue on many separate occasions.
Headhunter004 2 years ago
Your so busy defending a woman's right to choose you "forget" what she's choosing. YES, many women have been sterilized by having abortions.
Anjimom 2 years ago
Pretty screwed up stuff - forcing a raped women to carry their rapists child.
Faustuss1 2 years ago 39
@Faustuss1 Raped women are not "forced to carry their rapists child" If the woman decides they dont want the child, they can have it adopted.
Patriot3332 1 year ago
@Patriot3332 I Disagree, If The Woman Carries The Baby For The Whole 9 Months, 9 Times Out Of 10 Shes Probably Gonna End Up Keeping The Baby. It's A Good Idea To Just get Rid Of It Early So She Won't Develop An Emotional Attachment Later.
07liberian 1 year ago
@Faustuss1
she's not "forcing" a raped woman to carry her rapists child, she's just against murdering an innocent unborn baby who did not wish to be conceived by its tragic situation. this is the ONLY subject i will ever agree with Palin.
wetdream09 8 months ago
And what, may I ask, did the baby do to you to where you should kill it? Don't take shit out on the purest form of human life because of what some asshole did.
BlizzardDust 7 months ago
@Faustuss1 well killing a baby is also pretty messed up,
sh9683 4 months ago
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1. Rape is a very, very small percent of all abortions.
2. Even if it is a rape, the aborted child is still a child, a human with a future and a life. Abortion is legal killing. Even in the situation of a rape. The child is not the raper. If I was a girl, and I got raped and pregnant, I would keep the child.
DeMovieMakerRS 2 years ago
No, it's not a child. Fetuses are basically a piece of skin that will grow into a child. A child has a brain and nerves. Fetuses can't think or feel pain. They have no awareness of the abortion or anything else
Eggs and Sperm are also going to become a human being. Stop trying to take away the rights of others because of your personal opinion
zedude123 2 years ago 38
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I'm not trying to take away the rights of others, I'm trying to defend the rights of the children. Yes, they are children, they have a future. Just because they can't feel the pain of an abortion, it doesn't mean they don't have a future, and if they have a future, they have human rights.
Again, I'm not trying to take away the rights of others, I'm DEFENDING the rights of the children.
DeMovieMakerRS 2 years ago
How can you even say these words.... a fetus feels everything!!.... a documentary once showed that the fetus was actually crying at one point because of the pain.... i cannot believe people are pro choice.... you don't know the consequences you will face...
TubbyWilliams 2 years ago
"How can you even say these words.... a fetus feels everything"
Nope, sorry, but it's been scientifically proven that a fetus can't feel ANYTHING prior to 20 weeks, 90% of abortions are done long before that.
Headhunter004 2 years ago
All that bullshit doesn't matter... life is the only importance
TubbyWilliams 2 years ago
how can you say they dont feel anything prior to 20 weeks?
they do the baby is not a parasite its a living beautiful thing that deserves a chance to live! no matter what.
nikikaniki06 2 years ago
"how can you say they dont feel anything prior to 20 weeks? they do"
No, they don't, the central nervous system isn't there prior to 20 weeks, therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to feel pain, whereas the woman obviously CAN feel pain, and child birth is EXTREMELY painful.
And yes, the fetus--not baby, FETUS--IS a parasite, it can't live without draining its mother's nutrients prior to 24 weeks. And sorry if YOU feel that it deserves to live, in the end, it's the WOMAN's choice, not yours.
Headhunter004 2 years ago
Last time I checked, fetuses can't do documentaries. Do you remember when you were a fetus or do you just have to feed on lies to support your argument?
zedude123 2 years ago 2
@zedude123 If it is not living then................ why do you have to kill it? Does not murdering the innocent take away all of the innocents rights? The innocent may have an opinion on this matter if............you give it a chance at life. (Just like everyone else reading this was given a chance at life.)
nlightened2 1 year ago
@zedude123
an egg or sperm are not in the "process" of becoming a human being, unlike those fetuses you disregarded as human life. No one should have the "right" to murder they're baby just because its unborn.
wetdream09 8 months ago
@wetdream09 if it's unborn how can it possibly murdered, when it's UNBORN? T_T
xXAshlieAnimalXx 7 months ago
@xXAshlieAnimalXx because its still a baby, its a smal human life inside a mother's womb thats why
sh9683 4 months ago
Furthermore, if I had a girlfriend, I would want her to have a choice about her reproductivity, ESPECIALLY if she were to get raped and pregnant against her will, by God, no one, and I mean NO ONE is gonna tell her what to do next. Furthermore, a child is no good if it's unwanted, so it's actually more selfish to bring it into the world unwanted and subject it to a life of hell and orphanage, it's not that it doesn't deserve life, it's that it should not be subjected to such harshness.
Headhunter004 2 years ago 9
Headhunter
lol, abstract reasoning+learning doesnt make a human being, what about ppl with severe mental disablities, they sumtimes lack it? and no an 8wk fetus isnt human being by definition, but i think the presence of measurable brain activity, heartbeat, formed eyes, fingers, make it a human being
'a child is no good if it's unwanted', great abstract reasoning, youtube's so privileged to have yur so moral opinions. still its probs tru most kids would rather die than hav yu as a dad
ghiz8 2 years ago
how can people who approve of the war in iraq, in which our troops are killing women and children, be so strongly opposed to abortion?
REALLYIMAGINARY 2 years ago 10
"Some try to justify abortion by claiming that the product of conception, at least until a certain number of days, cannot yet be considered a personal human life....In reality from the moment in which the ovum is fertilized, a new life begins which is not that of the father or of the mother but of a new human being which develops of its own accord. It would NEAVER be made human if it were not human ALREADY....This has always been clear, and modern genetic science offers clear confirmation. JPII
teton99 2 years ago
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aliceann76, I agree totally with you.
ABORTION:
-is an ILLEGAL
-HOMICIDE
-of INNOCENT BABIES
-by KILLERS and CRAZY people
God bless you
elizabethmcnam 3 years ago
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ABORTION:
-Is an ILEGAL
-HOMICIDE
-of INNOCENT BABIES
-by CRAZY and MURDERER people
God bless you
aliceann76 3 years ago
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Why would RepubliC*NTS staunchly oppose abortion, even in INCEST and RAPE?
Where do you think RepubliC*NTS come from?
~Joe Marma
mavrek47 3 years ago
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i dont get how abortion has anything to do with women's rights. giving birth will not kill a woman, but abortion will kill a baby, thats kinda the point. dont you think the baby's right to not be murdered comes b4 the women's to not have to give birth?
ppl that are pro life arent always the ones that neglect women's rights. they just believe in the right to live over the right to not giv birth.
btw, how is it pro choice? what choice does the baby hav thats been murdered?
ghiz8 3 years ago
Again, it's NOT a baby, it's just a clump of cells during it's first week, which is when most abortions are performed, anyway. And you're dead wrong in the case of who suffers more-an aborted embryo or fetus in it's early stages cannot feel pain of any kind, if you abort it, it won't even know it, but a woman feels incredible swarms of pain from ANY pregnancy. And you're right, a fetus does NOT have a choice since it can't even make a conscious choice to begin with!
Headhunter004 3 years ago
over 500,000 women die in childbirth worldwide every year. the risk for dying in childbirth is higher than for an abortion. giving birth is not like crapping a jellybean. this has everything to do with womens rights. if women cannot fully control their fertility, they cannot participate fully in society nor can they control what their bodies are forced to experience. the body changes dramatically during pregnancy not to mention it takes years to physically recover.
leiapeison 2 years ago
ok, fair point leiapeison, but note worldwide. im not necessarily opposed to abortion being offered in the 3rd world, cos the majority of statistics come from that
but in the usa 16 out of 10 000 women die giving birth. thats tiny, less than plane crashes. i think the human life of an 8wk old fetus should be protected in western countries on those numbers. in usa, even more so in uk, australia, cos better docs than usa, abortion shouldnt be option, since woman wont die, but baby will
ghiz8 2 years ago
it may be rare, but the risk is still there. and it is not your life that is being risked it is theirs. not to mention the risk of post partum psychosis and depression which are real medical conditions. these women are protecting themselves from this assault on their dignity.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
there's 100 times more chance that when you drive to the supermarket, you will die. there is no risk, women are designed to giv birth, like it or not, and in the western world, they WONT die doing it. the lives of innocent human babies should trump the numbers 16 in 10 000! you cant make an argument based on those numbers
i acknowldge depression is a real medical condition, all i can say is it is treatable, this should be free but the live of an innocent baby beats it
ghiz8 2 years ago
but nobody is forcing women to go to the supermarket. yes depression can SOMETIMES be treatable. but the pain these women live with is forever. i have talked to rape crisis workers who have counseled women who were forced to give birth under these conditions back when abortion was illegal. decades later they still have serious psychological problems. ptsd actually causes physical dmage to the brain. this is their brain not yours
leiapeison 2 years ago
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Headhunter004 2 years ago
"dont you think the baby's right to not be murdered comes b4 the women's to not have to give birth?"
No, because not only is it NOT murder (murder is UNLAWFUL killing, abortion is legal), but a fetus does NOT have the right to use a woman's body against her will, NO ONE does, that fetus's "right to life" stops the moment it germinates inside a woman's body because it infringes on rights of her own. Like it or not, she can remove it for whatever reason she wants to at any time, sorry kiddo.
Headhunter004 2 years ago 5
Headhunter004
yur a jackass. during hitler's regime it was legal for the ss to kill jews, but i suppose thats not murder? just because its legal doesnt make it right
the fetus is an innocent, living human being, at 8wks it has brain activty, and eyes and finger, etc. IT cant help using the woman's body, its every bit as innocent as she is, and more than 99% or the time, more innocent. pregnancy is perfectly normal
so the innocent life of an innocent baby comes b4 sumbodys inconvenience
ghiz8 2 years ago
so what if it cant help it? that doesnt mean it gets a free ride. you are giving the fetus more rights than she does. it gets to have the disposition of its own body and hers. something she doesnt even get. and your wording of it being an "inconveniance" shows the shallowness with which you understand rape and its repercussions. at 7 weeks it only has a brain stem. it does not hava true brain function until mid pregnancy. women being "designed" to give birth doesnt mean they should have to
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
do you actually hav any morals whatsoever?? a 'free ride'?? WTF? you were given a free ride, why shouldnt the fetus about to be aborted, what makes you more important than it? why shoud you hav greater rights??
mate when i used 'incovenience' i was referring to the +99% of cases, where rape was not the cause, i wrote '99% of the time more innocent'. im not shallow
at 8wks there is brain stem and brain activity, + toes, fingers, eyes, that makes it human i think
ghiz8 2 years ago
if my mind had wanted to abort me that would have been her business as it is my business if i want to abort. please reread headhunters comments. nobody gets to violate my body including a fetus. if i am forced to be pregnant my body is being violated worse than if i was forced to have sex. i will employ whatever means i have to to not be raped against my will to any degree. and the fact that you have to attack my character instead of my argument shows that you lost this debate.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
im attacking yur character in saying i find yur morals obsene, if i said i approved of genocide, yude probs says the same thing
if yur 'mum' had wanted to abort you and you dont care, thats fine thats yur business. but that doesnt giv you the rite to decide that sum1 else should be killed too. i find it macabre that you lay the blame on the fetus, for actions its cant help. you would kill an innocent human just so you wouldnt be raped.
that makes you a coward
ghiz8 2 years ago
how is fending off a sexual violation make me a coward? you dont believe in equal rights for the unborn, you believe in special rights. for no born person would have the right to force me to share intimacy. it doesnt get anymore intimate than pregnancy. i dont lay blame on the fetus. i simply treat is as any other uninvited guest inside a womans body. i am not deciding that someone should be killed. i am not even advocating it. i am leaving it up to the woman. do you know what trauma is?
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
you need to take responsiblty, if you hav an abrtion, you are decidng sum1 shoud be killd, 'intimacy' i know yur body's being used by another, but sumtimes its necesary to care about anothrs life b4 our own discomfrt, howevr painful
i feel pity for raped women, becum pregnant, abort. but i look at 'em like i do germans who were complicit under nazis, to protect selvs
like those that stood up against the nazis, its raped women that giv birth, compassionate, that get my RESPECT
ghiz8 2 years ago
im pretty sure they dont "need" your respect or even care what the heck you think. you have admitted that you have never been raped. your comments here prove that and beyond. that you have no understanding of the vastness of trauma and what rape actually is. once again it isnt about discomfort. it goes far beyond that. a woman is not selfish for wanting her body to be her own. that is a natural human inclination and a perfectly good one. you do not believe in equality for no born person
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
nazis. how dare you make assumtions about me. i dont know what id do. but i sincerly hope that i wuld be the person my family b4 me were, and folow my conscience no matter what price i pay. i dont hate those that were complicit under the nazis for own sakes, i know sum personly, but i dearly hope i wuldnt be
totally irrelevant, but if you must assume. when i was 5yo, i was the only one in the skool that stood up for the black african kid, bullied by white usa kids for his race
ghiz8 2 years ago
im not saying you wouldnt but you dont know and neither do i. you say you "hope" you wouldnt. i hope i wouldnt either but im not gonna say for sure because no one knows what they would do with their back against the wall.
leiapeison 2 years ago
or raping their female relatives. many of them choice rape. other soldiers threaten to kill the women in their family also if the men do not agree to rape their female family members. again i have never been faced with that and i dont know what i would do. i dont judge those people. they do the best they can under horrific circumstances which is the same as raped women here in the states.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
once again sorry for giving you such a terrible question, lets pretend you couldnt abort yourself for whatever reason, yur not sure what yude do?
fair enough. i know i would choose to be raped, or even killed, rather than let a child be killed. i know thats a truly sickening analogy, but i link this back to abortion, kill an innocent child or be raped (not that i consider giving birth rape, you do). thats my problem with abortion
ghiz8 2 years ago
let me turn this back on you. you say it should be a womans choice if her life is in danger. well lets take out the rape threat to the woman and put in death. should a woman who is facing death be allowed to kill the 6 month old across the road to prevent her own death?
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
im impressed, ive made a faux pas. but errare est humanum
no a woman shouldnt be allowed to kill the 6mo from across the road to save her own life. HOWEVER, this is where i err, she should be allowed to abort to save her own life. i believe women should be allowed to abort if doctors believe fetus will endanger her life. i think fetus should have right to be protected from abortion, unless endangers mums life
when i say fetus equal worth, i mean unless endangers mums life
ghiz8 2 years ago
why shouldnt she be allowed to kill the six month old? you state that she should if her life is in danger, and you state that a six month old is the same as an embryo. i would consider a swift murder to be better than being raped for 9 months straight.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
i know i know, ive contradicted myself. apologies
ok the fetus inside her is not categorically a human being of equal rights to her. it is a human being (as of 8wks) and has the right to be protected from abortion, in all instances except when it endangers her life. so yes there is, however slight, a diffrence in rights of the born and unborn. in my opinion
sorry, its diffcult to maintain a defntion in so many different discussions
ghiz8 2 years ago
"it is a human being (as of 8wks)"
No, it isn't. It lacks ALL of the essential human characteristics to be considered a human being-it is incapable of abstract reasoning, the ability to learn, sustain life outside the womb, think, feel or breath consciously or feel pain--most abortions are done within the first 12 weeks before it even begins to develop a central nervous system. As for protection against abortion, no, it doesn't, your rights stop when they start infringing on another's rights.
Headhunter004 2 years ago 5
Nothing you're saying matters.... all that matters is that it's a HUMAN LIFE from the moment of conception !
TubbyWilliams 2 years ago
No, it doesn't, because guess what? A sperm cell, cancer, bacteria, an ant and a tree are all life as well (and a sperm cell is also human, so by definition, it is ALSO "human life"), yet they don't have rights and for OBVIOUS reasons, so that argument falls flat on its ass. It doesn't matter if it's "life", all that matters is that it's not a rational, independent living organism (which is CRITICAL for obtaining human rights) since it can't live without feeding off its mother as a parasite.
Headhunter004 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
O.k since you're all with the big talk and explanations of why abortion is perfectly fine answer me this.... hypothetically, what if you were conceived and your parents chose to kill you? that is the big question but then again you're probably one of those people that doesn't care about being alive and will retort back in vain.
TubbyWilliams 2 years ago
shut up ud have a fucked up life
fakedude33 2 years ago
leiapeison
but im horrified that you consider it ok to kill sum1, esp a baby, to save your own life (except in case of self defense). i could understand if it were doing so in order to save a loved one's life. i can categorically say i would never kill sum1 to save myself
yur implying yude kill an innocent baby to avoid what you consider a 9 month rape. isnt this the height of selfishness? even if you consider rape worse than death, yur deciding that for a born sum1 else, so yu dont suffer
ghiz8 2 years ago
"to save your own life, Except in cases of self defense) uhm wouldnt killing it to save your own life be self defense? it isnt what i consider to be a 9 month long rape. it is that by definition. anything that is sexual that is forced is by definition sexual assault. rape has been deemed to be the ultimate violation of the mind, body and spirit. now times that by 9 months and you get a recipe for torture. i would fight to the death not to be treated so cruelly.
leiapeison 2 years ago 2
leiapeison
like ive said theres a slight difference b/w rights of born and unborn. so that givs pregnant mother right to abort the baby if it will kill her, rare though this is
self defence, i mean from sum1 deliberately trying to kill you, sum1 not innocent. baby across the street is innocent. im not sure if the definition of killing in self defence would agree with me on that, but i think a court would
ghiz8 2 years ago
also you cant legislate against selfishness. what you would deem selfish would be deemed necessary for someone else about to be in a very traumatizing situation
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
no you cant legislate against selfishness, but i think any1 that kills the 6mo baby from across the rd to save own life, is tremendously selfish
ghiz8 2 years ago
leiapeison
this has got silly but there is a difference b/w indirect and direct self defence, and courts distinguish this
by my country's military laws of engagement, if an army regiment in the desert comes across armed enemy, trying to kill them, they hav rite to engage in combat and kill
if they come across an unarmed boy, who will not directly harm them, but will defs giv their position to enemy, theyre not allowed to kill even though this is indirect self defence, still a war crime
ghiz8 2 years ago
I feel sorry for you
TubbyWilliams 2 years ago
Either spell it out correctly or shut up, that (sum1) shit is ignorant.
Anjimom 2 years ago
sarah palin is a tool
tekinoztralia 2 years ago
would get to force themselves upon me to any degree much less one as intimate as pregnancy. and you werent in germany in world war 2 so dont go adn say that YOU would have the balls to stand up to the germans. there is a little phrase about walking a mile in someone elses shoes. your judgment of complete strangers is disgusting. these are issues you have no personal or relative experience with to make such judgements. you got alot of growing up to do.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
yur arguments are flawed as ever. i admit that i dont understand nearly as much about rape as some unfortunate souls, but you dont understand what murder is or feels like, by that same token. thats yur mistake again
it may be a natural inclination for a woman to hav her own body, but its also a natural inclination for her to bear children, and it isnt natural for her to kill them
ghiz8 2 years ago
a fetus doesnt know what murder feels like either for it has no conscioussness. i can think of many things worse than death. death is a natural and necessary part of the life cycle. rape and torture are not. it is NOT a natural inclination for all women to bear children. many women including myself have no maternal instinct or desire to have children. and believe it or not, even many of the ones that do laothe being pregnant. it is natural to want to fend off ANY sexual violation.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
ok a fetus dont know what murder is, but i do, and i cant allow it to happen to human beings
death is natural, but murder isnt natural either. i too can think of worse things, but not for me to choose death for others
yuve made a mistake saying fetus has no consciousness, feti aborted after 20wks hav been heard screaming when removed, indeed they can survive outside the womb, they hav consciousness. but i think at 8wks fetus shouldnt be abortd cos of human characteristics
ghiz8 2 years ago
if you can think of worst things than dying, what are they? mine would be torture whih forcing pregnancy would be. it can also be said that it is not for you to choose the fate of the conscious for you very well might be subjecting them to what they deem to be a fate worse than death.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
worse things than dying, going to a celine dion concert is at the top of that list
but once again its not up to society to decide who should die, YOU MUST AGREE WITH THIS PRINCIPLE, death should only ever be a personal choice. and although i personally think sumthing might be worse than death, another person might not, i would rather grant them that very personal decision, than make it for them. in any case i would rather give birth than die
ghiz8 2 years ago
society wouldnt be the one deciding. it would be the woman. the fact remains that YOU wouls be making this decision for sentient women. youre right, YOU would rather give birth than die. that isnt true for everyone. anything that is sexual that is forced is by definition sexual assault. forcing childbirth on a woman is just that.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
society would be deciding, by having legislation that permits abortion, society has a say in who dies, in any case the women is part of society isnt she
ok sum ppl would rather die than giv birth, listen, if you consider a fetus a human of equal worth, then sum1 else is being killed against their will, this has nothing to do with the woman dying or giving birth, just cos woman would rather die, she cant make up that decision for another to die. thats problem with yur argument
ghiz8 2 years ago
i would try and abort myself rather than kill the neighbors baby. and i would have a MUCH harder time killing a 6 month old baby than an embryo because they are not infringing on me in any way and they are sentient. theoretically though, if i had to sacrifice someones life to stop me from being raped if they were not the one the was infringing on me, i cant say for sure what i would do. no one does. in the congo, enemy soldiers kidnpa villagers and give the men a choice between being killed
leiapeison 2 years ago
Comment removed
ghiz8 2 years ago
trauma is when the brain is actually damaged from severe stress. this happens with rape trauma. i cant imagine how damaged her brain would be after a forced pregnancy. your insinuation that women who abort are cowards shows your arrogance and your insensitivity. i sincerely hope you never have to eat your words. for i have met women who were raped and aborted and they are strong women, with more moral fiber than you appear to have. the last thing they need is people harrassing them
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
i believe in almost equal rites for the unborn, that is to say only if doctors make prognosis that baby will probably kill mother, then its her choice, otherwise, its rite to life beats hers to kill it. that demonstrates i believe in equality
i hav no problem with the pro-abortion ppl that believe an 8wk fetus isnt human being, i just disagree. but this is disgraceful 'uninvited guest'
its yur child, yur dna, like yur related to yur mum. its human, not a virus
ghiz8 2 years ago
Please Repubs Please, Nominate her for Prez in 2012!!
AbrahamIsDead 3 years ago
if you saw an baby having their limbs cut off then being killed, would you intervene? do you think a government should intervene if they saw such a thing? because that is what abortion is!!
a foetus is a baby, by 8 weeks it has hands, at 20 weeks it can survive without its mother, IT IS A LIVING HUMAN
This is why abortion is wrong, this is why governments ought to intervene.
i respect a woman's right of choice, but it is trumped by a baby's right to life
tiredfootballer 3 years ago
Wrong, a fetus is NOT a human being. Just because it has hands doesn't make it a human being. A human being is a separate, living entity that can survive on it's own, a fetus is just a parasite living inside the body that CAN NOT live without it's mother's support. Furthermore, a fetus does NOT have the right to use a woman's body against her will, no one does, one living inside a mother is a permission, not a right, and it can be denied at any time, thus, you're wrong.
Headhunter004 3 years ago 2
DEMOCRAT VIEW: If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.
S. FAILIN'S VIEW: You staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, you're considered VERY responsible.
RepubliCANTs are Pro-LIFE, Pro-War, Pro-Death Penalty, etc. Talk about a value system that's contradictory & an oxy-moron. LOL! ~W~
mavrek47 3 years ago 3
LOL every college girl in the USA has taken the morning after pill HAHAHAHAHAHAHA sad but true
KarmicJuggernaut 3 years ago 4
There's nothing like blind dogma for starving the brain of oxygen...
17pdr 3 years ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
No, Sarah is making the choice for the person that the mother wants to KILL. That is the point. So there, try reporting the facts.
DrewDawg50 3 years ago
Eyewitness reports from the 14 caucus states in a 98-page, single-spaced report. Search on caucusanalysis.
judmeffer 3 years ago
I love republicans, love them, the same way you just have to love a really stupid dog.
One side of the issue, they are pro life, they want no fetuses to die from abortion.
However, on the other all terrorists must die.
So, abortions are completly wrong, but blowing other fully grown human beings to bits is a good thing?
Republicans are absolute idiots.
Actually, no, Palin wishes she was an absolute idiot, she is something much worse.
Vote Obama, Vote common sense.
FallenPhoenix2689 3 years ago 9
Sarah will put an end to Abortion Clinics in Iraq !!! No more will Fetal Shrapnel wounds be used as an excuse for abortion !!!
ShalloeThought 3 years ago
OMG, Sarah, stop giving us the round around! Answer the question retard!
Jessicasilva619 3 years ago
She never answers a direct question MY Goodness!
wondergrl5 3 years ago
answer the damn question!!!
krlspvp 3 years ago
PRO LIFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
proud catholic.
juliapooleuh 3 years ago
So when a catholic priest (take notice of the "when" ;-)) rapes a little girl aged, say, 13 - in the name of the good lord - she should be forced to give birth to this hell spawn?
Pro choice!
Who are you to even have an opinion about other womens bodies and lives?
Choice choice choice!!!
NoBullOnlyFacts 3 years ago 2
You're pro-murder? Glad to see that you're thinking is morally sound.
chiefsfanguitar 3 years ago
"pro-murder" - what a way to put it...
I'm "pro rational thinking" you might say.
Example:
A woman has a complication with the embryo and in order not to die from these complications it is necessary to interfere in her pregnancy and terminate the pregnancy, say, 1-2 months into that pregnancy. The thing she has in there is a shapeless "blob" at this time.. You would based on that blob sentence this woman to die well knowing that a simple procedure could save her life - are you "pro murder"?
NoBullOnlyFacts 3 years ago 3
I believe you can definitly make the argument that our constitution is pro life. The main principles are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Just because Sarah supports it doesnt mean shes gonna elect people to get her position on it. Its not pro life telling pro choice its written clear in our founding document. But what she will do is take people who want to twist the constitution out of position
Laxinlovin08 3 years ago
wtf! She would force a girl to have to go through the pain, embarassment and suffering of having a child When it was not even her fault! Especially when it was incest! Palin is disgusting. She is truly unsentimental to the feelings of others.
Emizette 3 years ago 5
Nice clothes palin. How much that run ya?
toml71 3 years ago 2
she is a trickster in disguise
budlac 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You fools! Sara Palin has more experience running governments as a commander in chief then all those other clowns put together!
She runs an economy of a small country right now, single command of military units of the Alaska National guard, has thousands of employees under her direction! controls vast amounts of our energy policies! experience? The truth is she is a danger to Obama! this women could run this nation anytime anyplace any how! Elect John and Caribou Barbie!
ravenwolf789 3 years ago
I wish Sarah Palin had not spent $150,000 on her wardrobe. I would have preferred to see her naked.
UnconcernedCitizen 3 years ago
you know who she looks like..she looks like a stripper whose trying for position as a reception.. Trashy makeup, behind glasses, to make them look 'learned". Its pathetic.
eimearoconnor 3 years ago
The stance is pro-life, until the moment of birth, at which time, you are pretty much on your own. Now, that is really pro-life, huh?
whiff1962 3 years ago 2
What is the fascination of the media with abortion? They oppose the death penalty against criminals, but do favor the killing of thousand of babies by abortion. Any couple should be responsible for their acts, and if the consequence is the coming a new baby they have to face it, or otherwise give the baby in adoption, but not to kill a new life.
Politeama 3 years ago
The girls don't get to choose to be raped, now the goverment wants them to ruin their lives?
sonnytsn1 3 years ago 7
palin is the closest thing to a NAZI that has been around in years
mwcegghead 3 years ago 3
The Nation have reported that the CNP "are the hidden hand behind McCain's Palin pick".
The CNP has shared directors such as Jesse Helms, Thomas Ellis and R.E. Carter-Wrenn with the eugenics organization the Pioneer Fund.
The Pioneer Fund endorses mandatory abortion and euthanasia.
The CNP is likely a pro-life Christian front for wealthy ideologues who want a system similar to that of Communist China.
neothomist1275 3 years ago
lmfao dis bitch is a joke
jenzdabish 3 years ago
Choose life???? Are You Going To FUCKING PAY?????????????? Why dont you open a PALIN ORPHANAGE WORK 365 DAYS A WEEK, OTHERWISE TAX PAYERS PAY WELFARE AND MEDICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
laurieztwo 3 years ago 3
The perhaps she should be a counselor, rather than our Vice President.
aidanisnadia 3 years ago 7
How does Palin get up in the morning and dress herself? This is absolutely amazing, how was I not picked as McCain's running mate?
thereffman 3 years ago 4
Yeahm "YOUR beliefs", not other people. Some people do not believe in God or believe in all of that. Religion is not important to a lot of people, so that should not affect whether they want an abortion or not
libra2482 3 years ago
Your point? IDK what I said in the first place.
MIDNIGHT1DEMO 3 years ago
CatharineL, you are so right. I recently wrote an essay on abortion and how it is the women's choice, not the government or anyone else to make that decision for her. No one should be FORCED to have a child because the law says so. If a person so chooses to stay pregnant, that's a personal choice. If they don't, that's a personal choice.
libra2482 3 years ago
Incest babies yeahhhhh!!!
Everyone want's to have a kid that's got 3 arms.
SGTChuck82 3 years ago
As mayor of Wasilla, Sarah Palin cut funding for medical rape-exams for victims of sexual assault.
Palin opposed Wasilla paying for rape exams due 2 her extreme Christian views, & opposed police chief Irl Stambaugh's inclusion of the budget's line-item paying for such costs. Palin fired Stambaugh, & replaced him with Charlie Fannon, who, with Palin's knowledge & signature, cut the rape-exams from the budget & began billing Wasilla's rape victims.
selatik1 3 years ago
Before a state law was passed bannin