Cintiq digitizer vs Tablet PC digitizer

[mrgreyblake]

What's the latest and best tablet pc?

[Shogmaster]

@mrgreyblake

It's between Fujitsu T901 w Optimus GPU, Lenovo X220T, or HP 2760p.

All three are up for update soon, however. By 3Q of 2012 they will be replaced by something new.

[DragonDrumAndBass]

i love this song <3

[HalcyonSunset]

For me, personally, the only reason I like higher level tablets is because making lineart with a paint brush flavor feels less finicky, but only slightly at that. Really, the more I pay attention to how I use photoshop and the tools/brushes/settings I prefer, I really don't use the number of levels that say a Cintiq has, I grab brush sizes and either press softly, moderately or hard. Discernible shading differences are only marginally better on a higher end tablet, to me. 256 is plenty imo..

[dieinafirenrot]

Yeah. Ultimately the increase in sensitivity at 1024 levels exists between the 256 of a standard wacom display. It's not like you can get lines that are more faint, or darker than otherwise possible. It just allows for a bit more control - something only the very best artists need. And hell, they don't need it, they just like it.

Not saying it doesn't make a difference - it does. But it's marginal. 256 levels is already pretty freaking impressive, and I'd say the point of diminishing returns.

[mim3dot]

although it will not make your work better the pressure sensitivity for sure!

but anyway, I think it will show its effect on low speed line drawings, not this fast, then you can notice some differences IMO which isn't covered in this vid.

mim,

[HotTexasBoi]

Why is it so laggy? Is the latency really that poor on these things? I was expecting to be smoother.

[Shogmaster]

@HotTexasBoi

It's not paper. It's going to have SOME delay. At the minimum, you will have .5 millisecond input delay with Intuos line, and .75 millisecond input delay with consumer Wacom tablet lines (including Penabled Tablet PC line), even if you manage to minimize the computational delay to nothing.

The delay will increase with bigger brush sizes that require more computations.

Here's a tip: If you focus on seeing the delay, you are not drawing. ;)

[Rendaylor]

@Shogmaster I had an Intuos2 and currently a Graphire and neither one has the kind of delay yours has... I think it's something to do with the Cintiq specifically

[Shogmaster]

@Rendaylor

The video was recorded with a really cheap 15fps point and shoot. The perception of delay is probably from that. I've use Intuos, Bamboo, Graphire, Cintiq, Pen Partner, Art Z II etc... No difference in delay.

[Rendaylor]

@Shogmaster reply so a crappy camera makes your mouse move several seconds before the image updates? I don't think so... your tablet doesn't have the lag, only your Cintiq does... your video basically shows that 256 vs 1k is not much different, but a Cintiq is laggy as all hell so not worth the 1k's slight boost in quality :)

[Shogmaster]

@Rendaylor

"Several seconds"? Really? Watching the same video are we? I see no difference between the Cintiq and Tablet PC segments.

[KuroiNeko2bz]

@Shogmaster dont worry about it... people like to say crap on others people equipment... let me ask you a couple things... if I get a great cuda GPU for photoshop cs5 do you think the delay will be reduced?? have you ever tried the cintiq 21 on SAI ? i believe the delay is really smaller... thanks for the video, cya

[Shogmaster]

@KuroiNeko2bz

I highly doubt that any perceived lag in the brushes that are not due to the excessive size of the brush will in any way be improved by GPU accelerated rendering. Does CS5 even use GPU assist for brushes? I know Painter doesn't, and its brushes are always more responsive than Photoshop's.

As for SAI, I have not touched it. I'm strictly a Painter / Photoshop / MS Journal guy for my workflow. Yes, I said MS Journal. I LOVE sketching with it on Tablet PCs. :D

[KuroiNeko2bz]

@Shogmaster oh yeah... although you said that there is no diference in the quality based on the pressure... in the fast draw you made i think the cintiq 21 did a pretty better job there in the pressure fading

[MasterThug]

well done for all the effor you put into this video you made, its well worth it and just realise you helped a lot of ppl on their decisions of purchases or differences.

[jonwhunt]

What pen do you use on a tablet pc? I assume the tablet pc itself doesn't recognize pressure sensitivity... I'm guessing its the pen being used?

[Shogmaster]

@jonwhunt

Tablet PC works just like any other Wacom tablets (including Cintiqs) when it comes to pressure sensitivity: The pen tip has a pressure sensor that detects the level and communicates that with the sensor board.

The pen used in the video is one that came with Sony VAIO LX900 Slim top (circa 2001) all in one with pen display. The sensor board on that detected 256 levels of pressure, just like the Penabled Tablet PCs of today. That pen, is pretty much dead now from over use.

[trejkaz]

256 is already pretty high though. A lot of tablets only have 16.  What about 16 vs 256?

[Shogmaster]

@trejkaz

16 lvls of pressure means you have a capacitive digitizer like on an iPad. The pressure sensitivity is derived from sensing the change in the size of the contact area, and is purely a software solution. It compares really poorly against a proper EMR digitizer like Wacom makes.

[WolfOfTheSeas101]

ugh this is so annoying, i had tablet sensitivity a while ago then my computer broke down and we sent it off to get fixed. It came back and they has taken it off of it and i had to re-instal it. When i did i couldn't remember how to get the sensitivity back. And now that i have found the disk for it, it keeps on telling me that it won't work?

[Shogmaster]

@WolfOfTheSeas101

If you have Wacom Penabled Tablet PC, you must download Penabled driver from Wacom's website.

[Jeshuchan]

did you use the same styles between the Cintiq and tablet pc?

[MarkOakleyComics]

The Lag, (where the cursor chases after the stylus at a tenth of a second delay or so), is deliberate. Recognition of stylus and button by the sensor grid is instantaneous; the tablet samples stylus condition hundreds of times per second, so the lag is a feature, probably added because of behavior user studies.

I asked a Wacom and a Toshiba engineer where in the driver the delay setting was. At first they blamed each other. When I explained my logic, they stopped responding.

Weird.

[servicemail]

Sure there's a lag on CoreDuo 1.6

[djoxer]

How much time it will take for us to get a wacom monitor, where we can draw over the image with all that precision?

[KinesisAcademy]

they are very close but but when u did the values test the cintiq seems to have a bit more depth that the tashiba...

[wuhlei]

what is the cheapest lcd tablet you can get?

[dindush1]

Hey Shogmaster!

What is the difference between the R25 and the R15?

How is it to draw on a convertible? isn't it too high?

[Bidon45]

About the lag.. That is going to depend on a lot on your settings in the application, your PC specs as well, but most people now a days have more than enough physical specifications to get no lag. However, for example, even a really good PC using some of the newer photoshop versions will lag if their AERO is turned off, which sounds backwards but its true, among other settings that mess with the performance.

[Daclaem]

Big lag on the pointer , i couldn t stand it.

[Purukivi]

you should have include usual wacom tablet also (intuoes for example).

[theQiwiMan]

"A poor carpenter blames his tools."

Either tool can be used to make beautiful things, so while there really are some very subtle differences, they're not big enough to be a snob about in my opinion.

[meachy13]

completely agree'd, yes theres a difference... but its seriously hard to notice, especially if you have to go through all of this, just too see it...I think wacom just puts the pressure sensitivity to make people think its better. I have a wacom with, 1024 and im getting a tablet pc with 256 soon, so i'll see for myself i guess.

[MillyVanillification]

@theQiwiMan This is partially true for carpenters, because what they do is analog. When it comes to digital painting It's an entirely different story. A digitizer is not a tool. Its a translator, tracking movements and dynamic events from the real world into a digital world. The better it receives and translates, the better the results. An artist should not adapt to the capabilities of the system but vice versa. If the system is crap, the result is crap.

[Bobbiethejean]

Jeebus! The lag is HORRIBLE in both cases! :O I don't know if I'd be able to tolerate such a horrendous lag!

[Xvyrk]

Weird... While watching this video I see an enormous difference, the same I feel when I use my sister's 256 voluto instead of my intuos 3, now intuos 4. You struggle so much in getting a clean long varied line with the tablet pc I can't believe most people don't see the difference. As someone who inks, draws and colors a lot, low level sensitivy simply drives me mad : O

[evalastone]

The main difference. The Wacom screen was designed for drawing where greater precision is required, wheras your standard tablet screen is intended for simple writing and math tasks in business and laboratory environments.

Like any hardware configuration it depends entirely on what you want to do with it. My gaming machine is a high end beast capable of handling high end graphics and hi-fi audio. My tablet, although slow, is reliable and does everything I could ever ask of it.

[MillyVanillification]

@evalastone Exactly. This is entirely task-depending. you wouldnt need 1024 lvls of pressure and a high resolution tablet for presentations. As a graphic artist you need the best you can get.

[xXKisskerXx]

I notice a slight difference in benefit of the 1024 levels of sense - but nothing that couldn't be "done" with practice on 256 - the shading is more smooth with pressure then on the 256 - now this isn't much, in fact I had to watch 2x to see it, but with enough hand practice it wouldn't matter.

Anything above 128 is basically a gimmick. 256 is fine. Lag between pen and board is the ONLY thing you need to obsess about, but wacoms usually refresh 100x per second, which is crazy fast.

[falannefilanne]

Thanks for the great vid. I am an amateur cartoonist.and I try to draw cartoons for a humour magazine. But I dont want to use the traditional methods .( paper, ink, scanner vs..) I thought to buy wacom cintiq 12 wx. But its expensive for an amateur. But after watching this vid I decided to buy a tablet pc. (toshiba portege m700) do you think I get problems with the pressure levels or another things that I dont know?

[AncientofAncients]

great vid...i think the gradient shaded on the tablet PC seemed a bit better than the cintiq...

[nextgen111]

What tablet pc you using in that vid?

[Shogmaster]

Toshiba R25 (discontinued in 2007)

[crystalpencil]

Pressure sensitivity aside,

Do you experience any type of lag with the tablet pc? In the vid it looked as though your strokes weren't reading quite as fast. It kinda looked that way to me, wanted to ask to know for sure.

[Shogmaster]

There is similar "lag" with Tablet PC and PC running Cintiqs. Very slight, but if you are hyper aware, noticeable.

But you get over it very quickly.

[bpopd]

What song is this?

[higginbottoms55]

why u have so many may i have one?

[PassiveSmoking]

My first tablet had no pressure at all and a cabled stylus. Then got a PenPartner and the wireless pen and pressure added new possibilities. Then got a small intuos2 and found the 512 levels allowed for more subtlety. Now have a bigger I3 which again increases subtlety. Looking at a cintiq now. Same performance as the i3 but built in screen. But after i4 came out want to see if cintiq gets upgraded. Levels don't matter early in the learning curve but as you progress their importance increases.

[totoroben]

Will cintiq and tablets are awesome, there are definitely ergonomic benefits to drawing long hours on regular digitizers. You can keep the screen at eye level.

[iurak6868]

thank you for this vid, i think you saved a lot of people a lot of money XP

for me it was enlightning

[Maxstube]

Thank you soooo much for the vid! I've been looking for exactly this.

To be honest I don't really think pressure levels are even that important.

I find it just about as easy to paint with my wacom as with my Nintendo DS which only has like 7 levels..

Humans just dont have the dexterity to capitalize on the pressure levels provided by wacom

[falkenfluegel]

8bits per color max, thats exactly 256 different shades between white and black. So how should you see a difference on a screen that can t even display more than that? It s impossible.

The thing is how easy it is to get the presure level you are aiming for and with 1024 levels you just have more space to hit that. it all just gets a little bit smother and easier. The new intuos4 has 2056 levels, you don t see that in the final drawing, how should you, but you feel it while working with it.

[Shogmaster]

I think your screen color point is a bit off since I had pressure set to express size of the brush as well. It's a clever point, but as you said, the pressure levels of a pen is not just about expressing colors on screen as a static image, but how your pen feels throughout time (your strokes) and space (screen).

Yes, more pressure levels, more you can express with the same pen tip travel. But my point is, 256 is more than most will notice to control with that small distance that the nib travels

[shaoliko]

can i ask a question i am deciding to buy a bamboo fun or intuos3 ,i really want the intuos 3 but my money is really short so i am thinking to buy the bamboo, are you sure that 512 to 1024 pressure sensitivity is almost the same and there is only a little difference??is the tilt sensitivity of intuos 3 useful and what does it do? thks..

[Shogmaster]

Tilt is just another parameter that can be set for variety of things in Photoshop and Painter brushes. For instance, one pencil in Painter allows for bigger brush size as your pen tilts away from perpendicular from the screen ("Flattened Pencil").

If you are starting out, I strongly recommend the $79 Bamboo. It's a cheap way to get use to digital drawing and sketching. You won't miss what you don't know with Intuos 3 (now 4).

Once you have gotten better, you can upgrade to the Intuos line.

[linesmith]

I have a toshiba tecra m7. I'm not really liking the pressure sensitivity on it so far. I think maybe it got worse after installing the wacom tablet pc drivers. I was thinking of buying a new pen but is it worth it to pay $50-70 for the compatible cintiq pens? What makes them better? I imagine it doesnt change the pressure levels but is the internal spring mechanism better to the point it makes the levels feel higher? Will there be any benefit to buying one of the other penabled pens?

[Shogmaster]

Pressure sensitivity levels will always remain the same (256 levels), but a better pen will give you a better tip feel, which goes a long way of your controlling those pressure levels.

I can't say the PL series Cintiq pens will give you a night and day difference, so YMMV.

Also, it's really important to make sure the software are set up properly to deal optimally with pressure. For instance, it's crucial with Painter to go into Brush Tracking and teach it what your preferred strokes looks like

[linesmith]

Thanks. I reinstalled the wacom drivers and it seems to have gotten better. I'll see how it goes and may pick up a Cintiq pen later. There is a definite minimal pressure required to make a stroke which is kind of annoying but I'm starting to get used to it.

So is there a reason why they restrict Tablet PC to 256? Are they trying to keep some appeal to buying the Cintiq?

[Shogmaster]

That, and there are power consumption angle as well.

[osakanone]

Basically, they hold a monopoly with the Cintiq line and the ridiculously high prices.

It's a case of a bunch of money-grubbing dickless executives who care more about the flow of green than consumer satisfaction.

[MatW1lson]

Yeah... I know. But if it weren't for them we wouldn't have such wonderful technology in the first place, yeah? This is why I disagree with Democrats. (although I root for Obama any day over any Republican.. yuck!)

[gebauzchris]

Not sure what that has to do with Democrat or Republican policies... but anyway.

AFAIK Wacom's patents on their technology already expired, so in theory, other companies could now manufacture products using the same tech. But since they're several years behind, they'll have to catch up for now.

[MatW1lson]

Yes, this was a poor comment (mine) as I do not even remember what I the context was.

I think it has something to do with liberals being bastards about anti-trust laws and free advertisement.. e.g. Intel and Microsoft are constantly fined due to their ways of advertising.

Democrats now want to control the health-care system in the name of "competition".

Actually, Republican's only probable is that they have Christianity on their side and that's not good for defending capitalism!

[gebauzchris]

Actually, extreme capitalism is what brought us the crisis. A little going back to more moderation is what we would need. In fact, extreme capitalism also endorses monopolies, because extreme capitalism dislikes any form of government control/regulation. To fight against monopolization, regulation is the only method, because the free market, due to entropy, will always move towards monopolies which in the end hurts the customers.

But we're on the topic of Wacom, let's not get into politics.

[MatW1lson]

That is what virtually all politicians want you to believe so they can gain more power!

Pure, laissez-faire Capitalism is the recongnition and protection of Individual Rights.. freedom from physical force, violence, and breach of contract/knaves & shysters.

So what if (e.g.) Adobe holds a monoply on web and video software?? They did NOT accomplish their greatness with a gun or whip like governments do.

Free trade is a peaceful act and leaves our minds free to invent and further our life

[MaRaMaTSG]

Thanks for this, I've been wondering which one is more convenient for art, if the Cintiq or a tabletPC. I'd prefer the tablet for it being more portable but wasn't sure if it would make the art in less quality. I'm not a pro anyway. I do mostly sketches and I'm only starting on coloring which is very simple right now, so guess I shouldn't be worrying about small differences you can barely tell.

What could you recommend for a tablet PC that's around the same price of the cintiq?

[Shogmaster]

$2000 is a lot of money. With that money you can get something like Fujitsu T5010, which is one of the best there is.

[ViperXtreme]

nice video, using a TX2000 from time to time and it's quite fun to use. Im no pro so i can't comment about the pressure lol, i just draw and draw

(btw, made a video myself, me doin a random sketch on the TX2000 >_>)

[plushicupcake]

which one is better??? :-/ they look fun!

[miRajY]

Great demo!

I purchased a T5010 fujitsu and was disapointed at the sensitivity of the pen in Sketchbook pro, installing the wacom tablet drivers makes it worse. can you recommend anything?

[WackoBobby]

Hmm... I WAS considering getting an Intuos3 6x8 over a Portege M200... until I saw THIS (After all, Intuos3 has 1024 levels + tilt sensitivity and all that jazz).

Now I'm not too sure... I do believe that seeing where I draw is a BIG boon (plus, the M200, being an outdated model, is actually cheaper than the Intuos3 6x8 via eBay!)

Btw, can anyone answer with 100% certainty whether or not the M200 has 512 levels or just 256? Different sources say different things...

Thanks for the vid, btw!

[Shogmaster]

No Tablet PC has 512 levels of pressure. M200 has 256 levels of pressure.

[CX2929]

Well, no "Tablet PC" per has 512, the ModBook while not a "Tablet PC", has been modded to support a 512 level pressure in its screen.

[dtg86]

what tune that ?

[FlameStream]

There is a little difference, that may turn off people on choosing a tablet PC vs a professional tablet input device, that is not quite obviously shown in this video.

I am not aware if it's due to the lack of pressure level sensitivity (I haven't tried the Graphire or Bamboo series), but there is a minimum pressure that you must apply before it input registers (it's really, really light, but noticeable for those that used 1024 tablets).

[FlameStream]

We can notice that your lines tends to cut off easily when you try to draw those swirls on the tablet PC which appears as very small weight lines/low density on the Cintiq.

However, yes, there is a lot of variables that can be involved that could explain the difference (Cintiq screen is positioned further, being human you cannot exert the exact same pressure on the two). But the fact that your input tend to cut off at very light pressure in your tablet PC may be enough to prove the point.

[FlameStream]

In any case, there is a difference. But until I can find a software that can show the pen's pressure gauge on the tablet PC (since Wacom's tablet PC driver software doesn't include it for some strange reason), it won't be easily shown.

(Whew, sorry for the long post (^^;))

[springplus300]

Just ordered the Cintiq 12WX

Seeing this, I kinda regret not getting a tablet-pc instead - I wasn't aware that the difference was as unnoticeable as it appears.

Anyway, done is done, and I wanted to ask you how well the standard grip pen that comes with the Cintiq 12WX performs - should I get another one right away or is it a keeper?

Can I expect it to work with a future Penabled tablet pc? (my laptop kinda needs being replaced soon)

[DJAYOEZBANGET]

umm.. cannot i ask somthing? I bought a PC tablet HP pavilion TX 2500 (wacom penabled), but i got an intuos3 too, is it fine to install it at my tablet PC? (coz, i'm afraid its gonna be crush...) plz reply...

[ajxuereb]

What tablet Pc would you recommend for a student in multimedia design? I plan on getting the cintiq further down the road but thats probably after college. I have been looking at the HP tx2z and the the Toshiba M750 (i think thats the model). I really dislike the HPs glossy screen but it seems to be the cheaper of the 2. Would the extra money be worth it? Also whats the music in this video?

[ajxuereb]

Its actually the M700 convertable tablet pc

[minidude111]

so all in all.... which one is better to have ? i travel alot so maybe i should get the pc but i dunno....

[Shogmaster]

I use to do a lot of my work on the go, so I sold my Cintiq 18SX to get a tablet PC. Worked out VERY well. Then my work needs switched to mostly home bound, so I also got a 20WSX and built a good workstation. Now I have best of both worlds.

If your work takes you away from your home alot, then get a Tablet PC first. If you stay home/office most of the time to do the work, then get the Cintiq first. If you can afford it, get both. :)

[Dreadeir]

Dude, thank you, you have no idea how much this video helped. =D

[Shogmaster]

Welcome. :)

[poolshark73185]

What would you recommend between a tablet pc (purchased now, 2.4 duel core) or a bamboo 4x6 (pretty small) wacom bamboo tablet? I am not a professional. Your reply will be GREATLY appreciated.

[Shogmaster]

If you want to draw naturally, Tablet PC is much better than a Bamboo. Drawing where you see is so much more useful than having more pressure levels.

[BalmungX]

from what i see the point of tablet PC is that you can move and work anywhere, a Cintiq can't, it require a PC/Mac connected.

[Shogmaster]

You certainly can't take that giant 20+ lbs Cintiq around everywhere, that's for sure. :D

Ideally, you should have both. I have my Tablet PC for on the go work (mostly ideation sketches and as my daily everything machine), and I have my desktop workstation with a Cintiq for doing serious nose to the groundstone full renderings or such more complex stuff.

[vlasvlasvlas]

CAN I USE INTUOS3 PEN with the TX?

[Shogmaster]

No. You can use Cintiq 15X, 17SX, and 18SX pens with HP TX2000 or TX2500 and other Wacom Penabled Tablet PCs, however.

[DarkGenic]

reason why the cintiq is 3x more expensive than a tablet pc xD

[xellos82]

But i apologise if has misunderstood you text.

My English is bad :)

[xellos82]

Yep, Cintiq is better, than tablet pc, its fact.

But Intuos3 better, than Cintiq. All prof. artists knows tnat :p

[Shogmaster]

Intuos 3 and Cintiq 21UX, 20WSX and 12WX all use the same sensor boards and pens. It's the same parts.

It's pretty obvious that all prof. artists knows that. ;)

[xellos82]

"Intuos 3 and Cintiq 21UX, 20WSX and 12WX all use the same sensor boards and pens"

Pens - yes, "boards" - no.

I recommend you to learn more about Wacom technologies which they used in various tablets. Its not the same, as you think ;)

Good luck :)

[Shogmaster]

I know enough about Wacom technology to fill in as their training rep on several occasions (that means employed as a contractor directly by Wacom). I know enough.

The boards have the same sensor parameters: 5000+ lines per inch accuracy, 200Hz data rate, etc..

[gameboya]

hahah xellos was pwned

[vlasvlasvlas]

do you know what the used a different pen for the Cintiq 15X, 17SX, and 18SX ? i cant use my inutos3 great pen on a hp tx.... aaarg

[Shogmaster]

15X, 17SX, and 18SX pens are part of the UD series digitizer pens, and are not frequency and function compatible with Intuos 3 tablets (and visa versa). However, 15X, 17SX and 18SX pens are 100% compatible with Penabled Tablet PC digitizers since Penabled boards are UD series boards.

[Avatarpwnz]

yeah, tablet pc's are pretty rad :D

[blazinhomo]

what song is this

[linxsr]

Koop - Summer Sun

[linxsr]

Koop - Summer Sun

[Crandireal]

Very nice vid, thanks for the info : )

[anuczunamund]

how about thinkpad x tablet?

i just find a gear to push up my sketch

on clothing design and i like thinkpad design

but doesn't have a pretty much idea about the technology things . Could you please suggest me

such a spec?

[Avatarpwnz]

Awesome, I really wanted to know how the difference between the two really was. I have a friend with a Cintiq, and I'm thinking about getting a Tablet PC. Great vid.

[mrlouisman]

I'd never even thought of this. I ignorantly thought pc tablets just wouldn't have pressure sensitivity. Have no idea most of them are built with a wacom component. I just picked up a Toshiba M200 off ebay for this very reason. Cool vid!

[kromdemon]

thanks i go to buy one right now, see you.

[kromdemon]

Can I use a cintiq on windows XP ?

[Shogmaster]

You can use a Cintiq with Windows 2000, XP, Vista, OSX, or Linux.

[wehatemacs]

eeerm, whats the point in comparing a tablet PC with a graphics tablet, they are for two very different things, tablet pcs can do graphics but it does loads of other stuff too, and the graphics tablet is designed specifically for graphics and therefor if it wasn't better it would be a pointless things to buy.

[Shogmaster]

The point of this video was simple: Many potential TPC buyers at forums that intended to use the machines for art always voiced concerned that the 256 levels of pressure listed in the specs would not be enough for doing art when compared to 1024 levels of pressure for Intuos 3 and Cintiqs. This video was made to put that concern to bed.

Yep. This video wasn't made for you.

[canti4xfire]

Good video. Very interesting. I could't really see a difference in sensivity. But the colours are different. At least in the vid the cintiq colours appear much more natural. Is this because of the better viewing angles of the cintiq or is the tablet pc not calibrated?

[Shogmaster]

Cintiq 21UX is a 24 bit LCD (16.7 million colors), and a very good one at that. My Tablet PC, like 99.99% of laptops, is running an 18 bit color LCD dithering to achieve pseudo 24 bit color ("16.2" million colors on paper, but really 262,144 colors dithered).

That's the difference in color that you're seeing. If you need super accurate colors, you really need to run a good professional external monitor in clone mode when using a laptop (that includes Macs).

[luckyhat4]

Blam on that Mac. I respect your Cintiq, however.

[Shogmaster]

When is Mac a Mac? It's an Intel Mac Pro running XP, so really, it was a PC. ;)

Also, the Cintiq 21UX in that video is not mine. It's one of the 42 units at school where I teach. No, I wouldn't be paying $3000 for a Mac Pro personally. :D

[TERRANCIO]

of course, just to make drawings you dont need a Mac, thats for more serious stuff! agreed

[Shogmaster]

Like updating your .me account, AMIRITE :P

[TERRANCIO]

i was thinking more like Editing a major animation movie and/or recording its soundtrack... but dont mind me, keep sketching noodles...

[Shogmaster]

That animation you are editing was created and rendered on Windows or Linux so you might want to know where OSX fits into the scheme of things. ;)

[TERRANCIO]

well, i was talking about Mac which is a Computer, but you are talking about Operative Systems... anyways, As Macs can run Linux, Windows and MacOs, i have peace of mind, what platform uses Renderman and what about Sun systems? what PC windows has to do with those? well, dont bother answering, im kind of tired seeing your desperate comments in my inbox!

[Shogmaster]

Mac is just a repackaged Intel box now days with OSX running on it. Mac is no longer a unique platform it once was (which had to stop that path due to falling behind the performance curve of the PowerPC platform).

I know, you don't care. Most Mac users are lost in their little world anyways. I should know. I use to be one.

[comma1987]

Finally got myself a tx2028au with 4gb ram. i'm not saying it sucks or anything, but if you are highly strung like me you MIGHT feel the difference. I even took both the tabletpc and my intuos2 with only 512 levels for an hour long testing session and found that, yeah, there's a difference in sensitivity. you might want to play around with the settings on your tabletpc, i finally got it in a somewhat comfortable state. wish i could bring upgrade it to at least 512.

[Shogmaster]

First, Intuos 2 has 1024 levels of pressure, not 512. Second, you should not be using the default pen of the TX2000z to compare. That pen really sucks.

You might notice in the video that I'm not using my R25 default pen. I'm using a much bigger and better Wacom pen that's still frequency compatible with R25.

If you want a pen with better tip feel for your TX2000z, order the Cintiq 15X or 18SX pen. It's compatible with Tablet PCs. It will improve the feel over the stock pen.

[comma1987]

i stand correct. thanks for the advice =)

[Shogmaster]

You are not incorrect in alot of things you said: There IS a difference you can feel between Tablet PCs and Intuos 3/Cintiq 21UX/20WSX/12WX.

I don't want to give anyone the impression that there is NO difference with this video. The point of this video is that the difference is not big at all. Very hard to discern in fact.

But for those who are perceptible enough, you will feel it. But it still shouldn't prevent you from doing great artwork on a Tablet PC.

[missedupmind]

hey bro .. thanx for the vid .. but i need u'er help.

my english sux and i've been looking forever for a place that sells the pen u'er talking about .

any chance to writ the exact name of the pen to look for ? or link to where buy it " amazon if possible" ?

thanx in advance

[MaRaMaTSG]

I got mine from eBay, and I live in Puerto Rico. You can search up Amazon too, they should have it as well.

[guenny2000]

Hello, I`want to buy a HP tx2140 ...are you shure, that it is pressure sensitive??? I asked the HP support and they told me that it dosen`t support any pressure sensitiveness. Now I´m totally confused! Is there anybody who can tell me for shure. I can`t find any official information about that :-(

[Shogmaster]

I don't know what $8/hr phone monkey you called to ask, but I can assure you that every TX2000z series unit has a Wacom Penabled UD series digitizer capable of giving you 256 levels of pressure.

[rekzkarz]

Um, personally, bought a laptop w/touchscreen & tried it. Had to return it. VERY frustrating experience for me.

I've never owned a Cintiq, but thought it'd be a close 2nd. It wasn't. WHY?

Well, there was this strange feeling to drawing on the screen that isn't like a drawing tablet OR a paper.

So I'm back to Wacom tablet & screen. Maybe I'll try again in 2012? :)

[Shogmaster]

"Touch" screen? That could be anything including a resistive passive digitizer. Wacom Penabled TPC is a total necessity for this kind of stuff. If you enjoy using your Wacom tablet on your PC then you probably ended up with something like HP TX1000 series and thought "Why are my lines so crappy looking"?

Be sure to try a TPC with a Wacom Penabled sticker on it next time.

[rekzkarz]

It was a Dell pen tablet w/Wacom tech, not a touch screen. Sorry, I mis-typed.

Anyway, didn't like it.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Shogmaster]

Haha the XT. $2500+ paperweight when it comes to art.

XT uses N-Trig's capacitive/EMR digitizer which brand new to the world so has almost no software support other than the most basic of drivers. You will lose with anything other than a Wacom Penabled Tablet PC.

The lesson: MAKE SURE YOUR TPC IS WACOM PENABLED!!!

[helrunner7]

I have the TX2000, love it. but I want to buy a Wacom pen, you know if it will work?

great video BTW, I was wondering about this issue.

[Shogmaster]

The best pens available for Wacom Penabled Tablet PCs like TX2000z are the Cintiq 15X pen (none grip) for $50 or Cintiq 18SX grip pen for $70. If you don't give a crap about the germ collection grip on the pen, you can save the $20 and get the 15X one, which works just as great as the $70 18SX one.

Both can be bought directly from Wacom.

[helrunner7]

Thanks a ton Shogmaster!

[paul6000000]

I've used a cintiq and the tx2000 and both of them very impressive for the price. Like Shogmaster, I don't notice any real difference in the drawing responsiveness. The cintiq really out-performs the laptop ergonomically though because of the built-in hotkeys (also the screen is clearer/brighter). I work all day in Toonboom and use the hotkeys constantly. If I could only use one, it would have to be the cintiq, but the tx2000 is great for rough work when you're sitting on the couch.

[omnediavore]

Very interesting. To my eyes and mind there's still a slight difference, but it's not worth the monumental difference in pricing.

Now if Apple made a tablet Macbook, or Axiotron's Modbook wasn't vaporware...

[usernamefromhell]

I did some research and I'm between the tx2000z and the Gateway C-140, right now I'm leaning towards the C-140, because it's way more powerful for the same price "core2duo 2.4ghz 3mb cache, way better graphics card", and has a bigger 14.1" screen "same res though", they both use wacom digitizers, my only doubt is the gateway brand. What do you think???

[Shogmaster]

C-141XL is a far better bang for the buck, but just be aware of few things:

1. It's a heavy bastard @ 7 lbs+.

2. With dedicated GPU producing additional heat, it might get a bit hot to touch. (but so is the TX2000z due to the Turions and the small form factor). You'd want a nice little laptop easel because it's heavy anyways.

3. I hear that it's cursor parallax is greater than Cintiq 21UX. That might bother you. Or it might not.

BTW, I've only tried TX2000z in person just FYI.

[usernamefromhell]

is the Tablet pc runing XP-tablet, or Vista???

[Shogmaster]

Vista (Home Premium 32bit to be exact). Very important since XP:Tablet will cause conflict with the Wacom driver and lag out Painter.

I've already recorded video of this phenomenon and will post it soon.

[usernamefromhell]

Thanks, very helpful, I've been looking at the hp tx2000 lately, tempting...

video faved!

[Lam3]

Don't get that one if you want to do stuff like this.

[Shogmaster]

I tested out the TX2000z at CES and found it pretty nice as an artist Tablet PC. It's got the same UD series active digitizer as my R25, so it should be able to do exactly the same stuff.

[Lam3]

I'm very sorry, I confused it with its predecessor, which is the model I have. It has a passive digitizer and therefore isn't really suited for these kind of things. I'd love to get a tx2000z actually, though it's not the fastest Tablet PC out there, because just like the old one, it has an AMD Turion processor, and it's generally a bit under-specced for Vista. Anyways, the tx2000z still seems nice.

[Lam3]

Also, the screen is very hard to see in just a bit of daylight.

[Shogmaster]

Yeah, the TX1000 is definitely not art friendly with it's passive digitizer. I'm just glad that HP was able to do TX2000z about the same price as TX1000 but with the Wacom digitizer.

And the Turion CPU won't match up with Core 2 Duos per clock, but my R25 is only 1.6GHz C2D and it handles Vista fine so 2.2~2.4GHz Turion should do also fine with it.

And most laptop screens are washed out by the sunlight so that's par for the course.

[drpulvino]

What "pen" are you using on the Toshiba tablet?

[Shogmaster]

It's my old VAIO branded PL500 pen, which is the same pen sold with the old PL550/Cintiq 15X.

The VAIO branding come from the fact that the pen is from Sony's LX900/910/920 slimtop LCD tablet desktop sold back in 2001. Used the same digitizer as the PL500, but the LCD monitor part was "married" to the computer via a proprietary DVI-I connection.

[ApocalypseKijur]

Hmmm... I agree the pressure sensativity is not a reason to buy a Cintiq over a Tablet PC.

The Only reason I could give for a Cintiq over a Tablet PC is that a Tablet PC's specs are static while a Cintiq is simply a interative pen display, thus it can attached to any platform, no matter how many times you upgrade.

A tablet PC certainly beats on portability though. Even if you get the latest Cintiq 12wx, you still need a platform.

In the end it boils down to what you want.

[Shogmaster]

You pretty much got it. Get Cintiq for a bigger and better LCD experience and the additional pen features (tilt and rotation)if you need those. Otherwise TPCs will give you pretty much the same art abilities in a much more portable package, but when the laptop hardware part gets too long in the tooth, the cool LCD tablet part gets thrown away as well.

[luckyhat4]

I have seen a video much like this, except the artist then claimed that a Cintiq is far better, then went on a long tirade of technological "proof" to show it was really the fact he was using a Mac, not the Cintiq at all.

I thank you for being honest.

[Shogmaster]

I just wanted to give folks a no nonsense look into the issue. I will soon be rolling up all my videos (with new ones) into blog that folks can go to for one stop info on LCD tablets and TPCs for art.

[Jungleskyline1984]

cool song ! what is the name ? also you are lucky to have cintiq ! looks wonderful.

[Shogmaster]

Song's called "Summer Sun" by Swedish duo "KOOP".

And the Cintiq is at the school where I teach. The TPC is mine.

[tricky500]

does painter have layers like photoshop?

[Shogmaster]

Painter had layers since 4 IIRC, but does not support all the layer features that Photoshop does. It does have most of the layer rendering options, and also supports layer mask, but not adjustment layer.

[tricky500]

cooooo coo. Thanks :).

[ekaii]

this is the spot of your pc set ?????

[Shogmaster]

I have no idea what you are asking.

[Shindohz]

Hey, I have a question:

How does the response of the pen & cintiq feel like?

Is it fast and accurate, like when you draw and draw fast, there is no delay?

(I ask because i have a touchscreen monitor and when I draw on that, there´s always a delay when I draw just a litte too fast like I would on paper with pencil.)

Also, is this like an actual screen?

Or is the light-intensiveness somewhat reduced?

(Because on the touchscreen monitor, it starts hurting in the eyes after a short while looking)

[Shogmaster]

I already answered Shindohz in a PM, but the answer is yes, it's fast and accurate with no delay.

As for eye strain, I wouldn't recommend using them in high brightness in a dark room. You need some lighting in the room.