'Henry's Women' exhibit

[mrseeyore666999]

its a shame u can dig up the skulls and do one of those things where they put markers on them to then mould the faces that way wwe can really see what they look like all the paintings were as accurate as possible its anne boylens painting that people are doubtfull of as when henry lost faviour in her all the painting were burnt most of the paintings we see today of here were done during her daughters rule so really noone can really possitivly say that any of these paintings are the true likeness

[lovelystrings]

I thought it was discovered that the picture everyone thinks is Katherine Howard (featured in this video) is Queen Jane Seymour's sister, Elizabeth. Also it has only been confirmed by Susan James apparently that that is Katherine Parr.

[SharnsiR]

I really don't think that Holbein of Katherine (maybe) was her. It's too different to all the others that are supposed to be her.

IMO that's a very unflattering portrait of Anne. Interestingly, from what I can find of authors citing original documents, in her prime Katherine of Aragon would have been the best looking of all of them. Her letters show her to be the most faithful and loving, right up to her sad death. Henry needed his head read imo!

[24Abstract]

Katherine Howard looks older than 17 years of age.

[SharnsiR]

@24Abstract I agree. I don't believe it's her. If you Google pics of her, you'll find most are 'reputed' to be her. There's very few, if any, known for a fact portraits of her. However, if you look at all of those which 'might' be her, you see a resemblance in some of them and this does not match that resemblance.

[gdholmfirth]

Fantastic video and music! Love all your videos; great history presented in such an interesting way. Did Henry VIII write some ballads and tunes like the one with this video? I think I read somewhere that he wrote "Greensleeves"-fact or rumour?

[SharnsiR]

@gdholmfirth I believe it's fact that he wrote Greensleeves however, firstly he probably had help (like Sir Thomas More probably helped him write his book that earned him the 'Defender of the Faith' title) and secondly, it's probably been altered over time. I heard someone describe it as 'Romanesque' (whatever that is) which is a style that wasn't around in Henry's time. I'd guess that this influence was added to the music and it changed a little.

[AmazingAesa]

Wow! I have never seen that potrait of Jane before!

[AmazingAesa]

@AmazingAesa

Nor that of Anne of Cleves or Catherine Parr! Did they actually sit for this potraits? Does anyone have anymore info on them? I am intrigued!

[AikokoXD]

the woman in the supposed Katherine Howard painting isn't her. the sitter is wearing mourning clothes, the type usually worn by a widow. And we all know that katherine was never a widow

[AmazingAesa]

@AikokoXD

I know right! I STRONGLY believe, along with others the sitter is Elizabeth Cromwell ( Jane seymours sister) If you compare that potrait with the potrait of the Jane there is a simalarity between the two.

[SharnsiR]

@AikokoXD If I had to be married to Henry VIII, I'd be in mourning for my soon to be lost head!

[BloomingSparrow]

I was in London this summer and went to Hampton Court. What a lovely exhibit!

[orsino88]

What is very amusing is how much the portrait of Katherine Parr resembles Deborah Kerr, who portrayed her in that semi-absurd costume drama, *Young Bess*, in 1953.

[ForEverSnoopy]

Katherine of Aragon was so beautiful!

[SharnsiR]

@ForEverSnoopy Contemporary reports say that she was of unrivalled beauty in her prime. I know that is said of every female royal, but in her case it was said so emphatically that I believe it. Also pictures of her (especially the series depicting her as the Madonna) are beautiful even by today's standards. Henry must have been nuts to cast her off for Anne Boleyn.

[Cissy2cute]

I have to agree with those who believe that the Catherine Howard portrait is probably not of her. The sitter definitely looks too old.

There is a stained glass portrait that is said to be Catherine Howard portraying the Queen of Sheba. It definitely shows a very young, attractive young woman with rich blond hair.

It would be nice if we could discover who this mystery woman really is and also find an authentic portrait of Catherine Howard.

[Saffron49]

I just saw a recent documentary and the Anne Boleyn portrait is definitely not what she looked liked according to accounts and a portrait believed to be the most accurate, and Katherine Howard, definitely not her. She was a teenager.

These are probably contemporary portraits. Anne Boleyn had dark hair and black eyes, she also was very slender and long necked. These are actual accounts of her by those at court and the Spanish Ambassador.

[RockSymphonyLove]

The last to wives: Katherine Howard & Katherine Parr aren't too bad looking. I think Katherine Howard, from the paintings at least, was the prettiest of his wives.

[flowerangel84]

jane seymour is uggggleeee

[mysticmagic4760]

Beautiful video & love the music you chose for it too!

[quiet4me]

that is deff not Katherine howard

[Aneasthetised]

what makes you think so?

[Frostbyte380]

Very nice display, and music.

[tiredoldbag]

fascinating - especially all your comments

Definately agree the Catherine Howard painting cannot be her - way too old!

thanx littlemisssunnydale - brilliant!

[YeOldeTune]

Awesome video. I love the music, is this an elizabethan tune?

[littlemisssunnydale]

The track is called "Kyng Henry VIII Pavyn". I am unaware of the exact date of the piece although I think it is early sixteenth-century.

[littlemisssunnydale]

Thank you for the comment!

[gboleyn]

Also cupidxxrawr is right on the subject of Catherine's painting - she's far too old. The date given on the original is 21. Even if we accept the earliest probable date for Catherine's birth (1521) it's extremely unlikely that she would have reached that age by the time she died (1542), since she died in February and had been in disgrace since November 2nd of the previous year. Personally, I tend to agree that Catherine's date of birth was actually between 1524 and 1527, probably 1525.

[littlemisssunnydale]

I agree - the date c.1525 seems notable considering she was not mentioned in a family will in c.1524 although over siblings (presumably older ones) were not overlooked.

Ultimately I suspect that they wanted a portrait they could claim to be of Katherine and used this one, even though the identity of the sitter is not determined.

[littlemisssunnydale]

*'other' siblings. Evidently I can't spell...

[Jamestopboy]

@littlemisssunnydale the portrait of the woman in black which they claim if Katheryne Howard is supposed to be, now, Elizabeth Seymour in widows clothes after her first husband, Gregory Cromwell died...

[Lizzie9176]

@Jamestopboy Her first husband was Anthony Ughtred, Governor of Jersey. Gregory was her second husband. As for the sitter of the portrait, it is disputed (although the sitter, imo, is definitely in widow's reeds).

[lovelystrings]

@Jamestopboy That's what I just said... wish they would find an actual painting.. my collage looks so weird with that one postcard which is completely different than all the others.

[ladydeath40]

I think that the Katherine Parre painting looks a lot like Elizabeth??? I wish I was able to go.

[uruziam]

But in the (disputed, to be sure) portrait of Katherine Howard, there is a line of text in the image telling us that the sitter was in the 21st year of her age, and I think she looks old enough to be 21 there.

[cupidxxrawr]

I think Kathrine Parr is beautiful in the picture.

Kathrine Howard looks too old to be a fifteen year old. in the painting, at least.

Anne Boylen was never described as beautiful, so the painting matches with that.

but Jane was described as a beauty, and the picture hardly did her justice.

[gboleyn]

It's definitely not Catherine Howard. She's wearing widow's weeds, which Catherine never had cause to wear. It's shockingly poor research on the part of the exhibition. The painting of Anne is also problematic - it may supposed to be her, but one recent essay persuasively argues it bears no resemblance to the original Anne. Moreover, as a response to cupidxxrawr, I should say that alas Jane was never described as being beautiful by anyone. Anne was actually - not universally, but occasionally.

[Azaria19]

I agree, the painting is very unlikely to be of Catherine Howard. But that is how Starkey identifies it, and I believe the exhibition is his baby. I agree with Antonia Fraser's arguments (the ones you cited).

In defence of Jane though, she was described as a beauty. I quote: "the fairest of all Henry's wives". I realise that could mean that she was fair, not dark, and that it was common practise to flatter Henry's choice of woman, whoever she was, I just thought I'd mention it in her defence.

[wxsew769]

Thanks for posting the paintings!!

[bestjonbon]

A delightful history lesson!

[sjfriend]

that was amazing. ive only ever seen the anne boleyn and k howard one before. am gonna go hampton court soon, luckily im a member of HRP so can get in for free!!

[TheBullen1]

You lucky bastard... how on earth did you manage to become a member?! I wish some handsome gay would buy me a membership

[sjfriend]

wel i gota make use of it. and i have, i went in december! going with me mum nxt week she actually see it on the telly and wanted to go,, everyones got the henry bug atn (or is it swine flu?)

[fatmaccam]

great. really nicely edited.

i enjoyed the music too. what is it?

[MarasVeil]

I just read an amazing biography of Queen Elizabeth I which brought back so many memories of that great queen who bore her and those with whom she shared her tempestuous father. Thank you for the lovely post.

[sjfriend]

what was it called? who by?

[auntdj111]

I think that some of the paintings must reflect the current popularity of the Queen at the time they were painted. This could be true with Anne Boleyn, positively or negatively.

Katherine Parr looks the most conventionally pretty taken from our current standards of beauty, Anne of Cleves does not look plain to me, etc.

[PhillyGal4Ever]

I think (once again) that Anne of Cleves is far more attractive than Henry VIII gave her credit for. I had never seen -well just about all of those portraits. The side view of Anne is very interesting-usually one only sees the famous Holbein portrait with Anne posed facing straight out at the viewer.

[PhillyGal4Ever]

I wish I could travel to England! To see this and all the great landmarks of English history. :)

[Gvanillavodka]

me too!

[peanutplays]

Thank you, extremely interesting!

[VitoCorleoneIsMyHero]

=O

I have only seen one of those portraits before - the one (supposedly) of Katherine Howard.

I totally need to go and see this exhibition!

Thanks for the vid (:

[eac1027]

Neat! Katherine Parr was the most attractive, as I thought before I saw the new portraits.

[Hellz34]

Well her time with Henry did span 10 years, and back then people didn't use aloe vera on their skin to keep it wrinkle free and looking young. A woman of 35 might have looked older. People also died younger.

[PhillyGal4Ever]

Very true. Bad medicine i.e. bloodletting as a ''cure' for just about everything', bad dentistry (or rather ancient dentistry), disease such as smallpox, all these contributed to people looking aged beyond their years in those days. Not to mention the constant threat of wars, beheadings, the stake..

[Hellz34]

Fantastic! I'd travel to England just to see this exhibit. Those portraits are incredible, and it's wonderful they're being put on display. And that's not Katherine Howard!

[justlooking213]

My mom got to go to London last year, I'm hoping to go this summer or late fall. Its Henry's big anniversary, No way I'm gonna miss that!

[SHEWHOWANDERS]

They weren't very pretty woman. I mean I was led to believe these woman had extrodinary beauty. Thanks for the video.

[PhillyGal4Ever]

There are different standards of beauty for each age, for diffent eras. For example prior to the 1960's full figured women were considered the ideal. In the flapper era the slimmer figure was preferred, and so on. As to looks-it is all relative. These are portraits. A photograph may well show the sitter in a diffent light. Again what was beautiful then may not be considered so now, and vice versa.

[AmazingAesa]

@SHEWHOWANDERS

You have to remember these are only potraits.. 16th century potrayals RARELY capture their image accurately.

[theothertudorgirl]

Interesting... I have never seen any of the paintings (except Katherine Howard) before. I wish I lived in England. Alas I live in Australia so thank you for posting these paintings!

[xjustinyx]

The portraits of Jane and Anne of Cleves are especially interesting. Jane looks much different than the more famous portrait of her, and Anne of Cleves has a little bit of a crooked nose!

[PhillyGal4Ever]

Wonderful! Loves it!♥♥

[littlemisssunnydale]

Thank you!

[weeknightingale]

Thanks for posting this! Splendid!

[littlemisssunnydale]

Thank you!!

[Viorica8957]

Interesting that Anne's wearing a gable hood in her portrait. I don't think I've seen any pictures like that- she's usually wearing a French one. Also, some of the paintings look closer to other depictions, while others look unfamiliar. Catherine of Aragon and Jane Seymour resemble the more famous portraits of them, but Anne Boleyn and Catherine Parr look completely different. (Also, did Anne's necklace have a "A" on it? I thought it was just a "B")

[Takagou]

Anne had several necklaces. The most famous is the, "B" but she also had other ones, such as, "AB"

[littlemisssunnydale]

Interestingly, the only affirmed contemporary image we have of Anne - a medal that was issued in 1534 - depicts her wearing a gable hood. This portrait (which dates to the reign of Elizabeth I) may be based on this.

[324wilson]

That you so much for posting this!

[littlemisssunnydale]

Thank you! :)

[qugelvish]

Thank you for this beautiful and informative posting!

[littlemisssunnydale]

Thank you! :)

[CatherineSuffolk]

i am sorry to say but all these paintings give his wives no justice as i think they make them look not as beauitful as believe they were as henry viii would only have the best women at court

[littlemisssunnydale]

Certainly all portraits must not be taken without question. However not all of Henry's wives were regarded as beautiful - his third wife, for example, was said to have been quite plain. Henry's taste in women was diverse, with some of the women he was associated with being regarded as beautiful whilst others were regarded as nothing special. He liked feisty women; he liked demure women. He married, or had as mistresses, blondes, redheads and brunettes.

[CatherineSuffolk]

is it on all year.... love to go over and take a look.... is it 500 years since we first meet the young king henry already

[SharnsiR]

@CatherineSuffolk Don't forget that ideals of beauty have changed over time. Also paintings were created to 'ideals' meaning sitters looks were altered to suit the fashion of the day. If I were painting someone with the power to cut off my head, I wouldn't add their zits & wrinkles. If small 'rosebud' mouths were in fashion, I would paint Angelina Jolie with thin lips. Anne Boleyn was not reportedly beautiful. Instead she was a leader of fashion and literature, intriguing rather than gorgeous.

[dutchguy22]

well where is it ?

[littlemisssunnydale]

Hmmm...it seems not to have uploaded correctly. It hasn't done this before....