I think that human feedback can be superficial and equivocal in that dichotomy. what one can do is cite the scientific knowledge of psychology to measure up and figure out the validity of Figure A.
The fact that he asks "How do I prove it?" is proof that he lacks that something he's trying to prove.
"How can I convince you I have empathy? How can I convince you I feel bad for my crimes? How can I convince you I won't hurt you? (When I know I will...)"
This is why these individuals are so dangerous. They are trying to convince us they won't hurt us so they can hurt us.
@cubbycab Human behavior is a combination of learned and biological. Your genetics drive you through a barage of environmental influences, which in turn shape your behavior.
Why are criminals fed enough to build up large muscles? A lot of free people can't afford to eat enough to build up that kind of muscle. It takes a LOT of calories to build up large muscles. They shouldn't get muscle-building exercise anyway, and should actively prevented from it. Some aerobic exercise is healthy, helpful for stress, etc., but they don't need to come out of prison hulked-up.
@newguy33X I mean, have you priced protein (not supplements, I just mean food) these days? It takes a lot of it (and calories, expensive enough too) to build big arms.
He's probably faking all that... just trying to show that he thinks the same way you do and really does focus on all aspects ... Not that he wouldn't kick you to death if he had the chance... Ohh I'm probably exaggerating... lets assume he's okay... No no no you don't have to assume that I'm okay just because of that... I mean I like to do my research but I would just like the freedom you know?... BANG BANG BANG
The more I've dealt with criminals in my life the more I'm inclined to agree with the likes of Yochelson and Samenow, who authored The Criminal Personality, basically criminals are people who made a conscious decision at an early age to break the rules for their own benefit and to disregard the rights of other people and they have stayed that way, they won't change in a meaningful way- they'll only do what suits them. The liberal pro-rehabilitation lot are their enablers.
@theporksicle What makes them make that decision? Something must. They don't just choose it at random, for no good reason. The conditions people are raised in causes them to go in one way or another. Maybe it's not a Conscious,,intellectual choice but, more a Physical one. A person having a heart attack cannot Consciously choose not to have one. The Emotions/body gets injured.
@winstono75 Psychedelic Therapy as with the use of drugs such as LSD? It's been tried, and many psychopaths - like many other people - have tried such drugs on a private basis. It may generate new and different perspectives, but it doesn't change the fundamental personality of the individual because it's the personality that generate the changes in perspective that happen under the influence of such drugs.
But if this is what you meant, it was a good idea. :)
@Zhawq Hm, I suppose you're right about the personality generating the changes in perspective. I just figured that the spiritual experience that many people have on LSD would open them up to their oneness with others.
wow that blond guy should be sent to those reformative training center to talk to those young offenders...just the looks from his eyes is enough to bring them back to the correct path...lol
Is there a following second part to the program showed in this video? It would be nice to learn more. People need to learn about these things.
Don't keep us in the dark! Everybody who can and have the opportunity: Upload videos with good, sound information about this very problematic topic!!...
@Swecan76 ... What you say is what I have heard and read too.
But psychopaths are not necessarily dumb, and the blond guy in the video, f.ex., could very well be telling the truth. The problem he has is that his past makes it hard for others to believe him, and you can't tell if somebody really means what they say just from hearing the words.
It is a problem, and he really can't prove his sincerity.
@Zhawq Yeah, the difficulty is that psychopaths are, in fact, incapable of truly feeling remorse, guilt or empathy, but they are capable of learning from their mistakes and staying out of trouble if only for their own self preservation, but like Swecan says, a psychopath could just as easily be lying better than ever before as they could be telling the truth about learning why to change their ways.
@GilbertSmith Exactly. This makes the study of treatment outcomes very difficult. You never know whether at treatment has worked or whether the psychopath has simply learned to say what he/she needs to say. I guess neurological measures such as fMRIs to look at arousal with gruesome pictures could come into it. But that would be expensive and the reliability is unknown.
Broadmoor Hospital will close its DSPD unit because it hasn't been able to prove effectiveness yet.
@GilbertSmith True enough. Still, in this guy's case I believe he has every reason to be tired of years in jail, so I believe him. I really have no reason not to.
Where the real problem arises is once he IS out. There're so many temptations, it is so easy to fall back on previous behavior, and in this regard psychopaths don't seem to learn very well.
@i3ever I see what you mean of course. But I'm more in favor of educating myself - and others - so that nobody should HAVE to be afraid. See what I mean? I think that's why looking into the subject is a good idea, and I know psychopaths and non-psychopaths look into things already.
But still, I understand what you mean - or I think I do, anyway. :)
You mention: "Until a cure is found...". What kind of cure do you think could be made?
I know of a few psychologists+doctors in London that are looking towards microchips as a possible cure, the chip would tyipically be a brain implant that takes over the fuctioning of the amygdala.
@i3ever I see, that's interesting. I've heard that researchers have theorized about possibly doing more research into this field when some time into the future we know how to construct such chips for each individual, and know how to find exactly which neurological pathways to affect, where and how. - With the knowledge they have today the closest to specific knowledge are things such as "The Corpus Callosum is longer, but also thinner, in Psychopaths' brains". But we can't just attach a chip...
@i3ever that blocks all processing between the two brain halves. And that's where the problem comes in. We know largely in which areas of the brain what kind of emotional activity takes place, and largely which neurological areas are connected to which in the process. But there're so many other processes happening through and criss crossing the same channels, that it exact knowledge at this point makes this a hypothethis at present. --You probably knew all that. :) Can you point me to a website?
@Swecan76 There's debate about htat in research, and htis question hasn't been answered unequivocally. Perhaps we need better methods of treating psychopaths, but that doesn't mean it's "untreatable".
We can't treat viral infections at the moment, does that mean they're untreatable?
I'm inclined to agree with the limitations of current treatments available, and when you visit places like Broadmoor Hospital,it does sound like they really WANT to believe it's treatable more than anything. But as psychologists, we have an obligation to keep searching for a treatment that really works.
I think in this case, neuropsychological studies are providing the most insight at the moment.
@Swecan76 If one could find a drug which changes levels of arousal in response to stimuli, this would be one step. Of course you can't simply create synapses through some drug, but you can work with the neurotransmitters. It's also likely that the sensitive period for creating certain synapses has passed, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Humans form new synapses all the time through learning (although not as much as in infancy), and so psychological interventions are likewise important.
@Swecan76 I think there's hope if you could treat a psychopath before he/she commits an offence.The arousal from the offence reinforces the behaviour strongly.But if a child with a disorganised/avoidant attachment style can learn to form attachments through high quality care, I see potential in that.It just highlights the importance of early intervention.
Psychopaths aren't simply "born with it" - our pre- and postnatal environment affect which genes are expressed and which synapses are formed.
@Swecan76 "No matter what you say will change this."Well, I'm glad psychological practice is based on research, not simply people's opinions.The research so far suggests that it's a mixture of heritable, innate factors and environmental factors which affect early brain development.Family factors do come into this. Not every person who suffers abuse becomes a psychopath, but abuse and neglect support a negative development in people who are predisposed towards it. It's an interactive process.
@Chocolateluvr1987 From what I've read and heard, psychopaths are born, not made, and they cannot be rehabilitated. Yes, childhood abuse can breed antisocial tendencies, but that is something different; it is not psychopathy.
@LordBifford Actually,the jury IS still out on this.Evidence so far suggests that you have to work differently with psychopaths than with offenders with an Axis I mental illness.You basically don't appeal to the emotional side of things or go through victim statements,but try to enhance self-regulation/control strategies.It's hard to test the effectiveness of this as most diagnosed psychopaths who are getting this treatment have committed offences which will keep them in prison for a long time.
@LordBifford So the only outcome measures you've got is institutional behaviour,which psychopaths tend to be quite "good at" anyway.Check out the research done in places like Broadmoor and Rampton.I just got back from a conference and some of the stuff did sound promising.I just think our understanding is still quite poor.There is definite evidence for biological factors - but I doubt that this is all innate; I think it relates to the way synapses are formed in infancy in relation to attachment.
@Chocolateluvr1987 Hare writes that psychopaths are not interested in reforming. They do not believe anything is wrong with them; they think they are totally awesome. Even if they did accept their "problem", they lack the discipline and commitment to pursue any sort of therapy you might give them.
Sometimes I think the only way to fix a psychopath is brain surgery, ie physically rewire those parts of the brain that should make them empathetic and responsible. But that is still sci-fi.
@LordBifford I agree that at the moment, we may not have the means tl "make" a psychopath empathetic and warm. That's just not going to happen. But you do have to look at the Big Five and how they relate to psychopathy, and you can certainly improve behavioural management strategies. This is very, very resource consuming as I'm sure you're aware (as in years of intense group/individual therapy). We do need better outcome measures, but we also need to clearly define our goals.
@LordBifford So to clarify my last three points: With the way things stand now, I don't believe we can "cure" psychopathy, and maybe the construct does reflect a medicalisation of certain behaviours. However, I do believe that treatment can be effective in terms of enhancing managability of patients, e.g. in medium rather than high security. Research on group therapy shows that the first dimensions to improve are hostility, dominance and coerciveness.
@LordBifford It actually seems that childhood has a lot of impact upon how a psychopath develops and behaves when s/he grows up - especially in terms of physical violence.
@Zhawq A well-bred psychopath has the skills and social savvy to become a white-collar criminal, committing crimes that are easier to disguise and less punishable by law. The poorly-bred psychopath becomes yet another violent thug.
@Swecan76 Psychopathy is not the same as arousal about murder, but psychopaths tend to feel chronically underaroused by stimuli from an early age. They not only lack empathy, but also sensitivity to auditory and visual stimuli that make other people startle. This triggers sensation seeking in unusual ways.
Psychopaths also do not lack a part of a brain (there's not a hole where their limbic system should be), but connections with this part haven't been established.
I did not suggest there is a hole in the brain, geez.
They simply don't have the ability to feel empathy, their brains are not right.
Psychologists and psychiatrists think they can somehow cure or treat psychopathy yet they are easily tricked by a psychopath and all they do is teach them how to fit in better and manipulate better.
I wonder how many bad people the people in the field of psychology has let loose cause they are inept when it comes to psychopaths.
@Swecan76 Yes, their brains are not right because crucial connections haven't been formed. But the jury is still out on whether these connections can be formed later or not. What is known is that in other areas, people do learn later in life, just more slowly.
I don't doubt that psychologists/-iatrists have been manipulated by psychopaths in the past, but that's what supervision is for. You're supposed to prevent these things through peer review. Of course that's a problem when everyone's wrong
@Swecan76 Also, it's very hard to actually let a psychopath loose by the time they're referred for treatment, because their offences will unfortunately have been very serious at this time. Where they are let loose early, this is a flaw in the legal system that I think needs to be remedied. I personally don't agree with anyone who has committed serial murders/rapes ever getting out of prison, whether they are a psychopath or not. But we still need to investigate avenues for treatment.
look i don't know what you're afraid of i'm a psychopath and i know what's wrong and what's right it's true i fake my feelings but i just do that to fit in and it's true that i spend a lot of time thinking of ways to kill but that doesn't mean i'm going to
it's also true that i do want to kill but that urges can be controled easily but i'm only 18 who knows what will happen in the future
@25person52 How do you know you are a psychopath? That's a pretty tough label to have stuck to you by anyone, very finite. I hope you do seek help, especially with urges to kill. To clarify: I wasn't saying all psychopaths are murderers or that there can be no help whatsoever. But people who have committed serial offences have already been reinforced so strongly in that behaviour. It's harder to control an intrinsically rewarding behaviour that you have actually engaged in several times.
The more you fantasise about something, the more elaborate that fantasy tends to become and the stronger the urge to act it out. But in my opinion, there is an intervention potential there.
Obviously, psychopathy exists on a continuum in the general population and that isn't anyone's "fault". I just don't think it is safe/moral to loosen security on serial offenders because they are deemed to have been "treated", when it isn't certain whether treatment is effective.
@25person52 Sorry to hear about your struggles (I'm hoping this isn't some sort of sick joke). Again, I wasn't talking about locking away all people who struggle with this - just people who have actually committed offences. I'm not sure if I think you are a psychopath based on the fact that you empathise sufficiently to try not to hurt anyone in reality, but then I don't know you. I just hope that you try and get psychiatric help now. Good luck getting better.
@Chocolateluvr1987 I see that a great problem with psychopathy is that its symptoms are hard to quantify and can easily resemble similar disorders that stem from nurture rather than nature. No wonder Prof Hare has such a hard time promoting his concept of psychopathy.
@LordBifford I don't think Hare has a hard time being accepted in clinical pratice.The PCL-R is pretty much used everywhere, although some research indicates that a more personality dimension oriented approach might be useful.Even thinking about psychopathy as biological doesn't necessarily make it untreatable or impervious to psychological intervention.I agree that motivation is difficult, but when you've had everything taken away you need to change, even if it's superficial at first.
@LordBifford I am not convinced at all that "nature vs. nurture" is a dichotomy. I think like with every other disorder, psychopathy shows a gene-environment interaction, especially with the early environment which has been strongly linked with psychopathy. Emotional deprivation in early childhood is indicated as a strong contributor, even though it is not a sufficient cause in the sense that everyone who suffers this will be psychopathic. We also need to look at comorbidities, e.g. with ADHD.
Dr Hare is a quack and his ideas are pseudoscientific. No different to astrology. Period.
Mrscientificmethod 2 days ago
I think that human feedback can be superficial and equivocal in that dichotomy. what one can do is cite the scientific knowledge of psychology to measure up and figure out the validity of Figure A.
Swampymcswamp 2 months ago
The fact that he asks "How do I prove it?" is proof that he lacks that something he's trying to prove.
"How can I convince you I have empathy? How can I convince you I feel bad for my crimes? How can I convince you I won't hurt you? (When I know I will...)"
This is why these individuals are so dangerous. They are trying to convince us they won't hurt us so they can hurt us.
Ebvardh 4 months ago
he looks like a celtic warrior
rolflmaoweeee 5 months ago
He has the deepest Canadian accent ever!
TheTravelfool 5 months ago
He's just learning to act like a human. Psychopaths can no more be human than they can become a bird. Don't be fooled.
guydecervens 8 months ago 2
@guydecervens human behavior is a learned behavior- for everyone.
cubbycab 6 months ago
@cubbycab they say psychopathy in the weirdest way and I lived in Toronto! I never heard it said that way there.
TheTravelfool 5 months ago
@cubbycab Human behavior is a combination of learned and biological. Your genetics drive you through a barage of environmental influences, which in turn shape your behavior.
sleepyeyeguy 5 months ago
i c, its a good idea, haha but the little guys are the ones to watch out for ;)
plrviking 10 months ago
Why are criminals fed enough to build up large muscles? A lot of free people can't afford to eat enough to build up that kind of muscle. It takes a LOT of calories to build up large muscles. They shouldn't get muscle-building exercise anyway, and should actively prevented from it. Some aerobic exercise is healthy, helpful for stress, etc., but they don't need to come out of prison hulked-up.
newguy33X 10 months ago
@newguy33X I mean, have you priced protein (not supplements, I just mean food) these days? It takes a lot of it (and calories, expensive enough too) to build big arms.
newguy33X 10 months ago
@newguy33X if u got money on the books u can eat and eat. if u were in the joint u would probly want bigger arms too fool
plrviking 10 months ago
@plrviking I know. I'm saying the system should be set up to deny them the ability to get or stay hugely-muscled.
newguy33X 10 months ago
He's probably faking all that... just trying to show that he thinks the same way you do and really does focus on all aspects ... Not that he wouldn't kick you to death if he had the chance... Ohh I'm probably exaggerating... lets assume he's okay... No no no you don't have to assume that I'm okay just because of that... I mean I like to do my research but I would just like the freedom you know?... BANG BANG BANG
Dolphidood 11 months ago
The more I've dealt with criminals in my life the more I'm inclined to agree with the likes of Yochelson and Samenow, who authored The Criminal Personality, basically criminals are people who made a conscious decision at an early age to break the rules for their own benefit and to disregard the rights of other people and they have stayed that way, they won't change in a meaningful way- they'll only do what suits them. The liberal pro-rehabilitation lot are their enablers.
theporksicle 1 year ago
@theporksicle What makes them make that decision? Something must. They don't just choose it at random, for no good reason. The conditions people are raised in causes them to go in one way or another. Maybe it's not a Conscious,,intellectual choice but, more a Physical one. A person having a heart attack cannot Consciously choose not to have one. The Emotions/body gets injured.
catwatters4 11 months ago
I believe psychedelic therapy can give psychopaths a new perspective.
winstono75 1 year ago
@winstono75 Psychedelic Therapy as with the use of drugs such as LSD? It's been tried, and many psychopaths - like many other people - have tried such drugs on a private basis. It may generate new and different perspectives, but it doesn't change the fundamental personality of the individual because it's the personality that generate the changes in perspective that happen under the influence of such drugs.
But if this is what you meant, it was a good idea. :)
Zhawq 1 year ago
@Zhawq Hm, I suppose you're right about the personality generating the changes in perspective. I just figured that the spiritual experience that many people have on LSD would open them up to their oneness with others.
winstono75 1 year ago
@winstono75 Yes, I understand that. And it was a good idea, actually, that not many would come up with. ;)
Zhawq 1 year ago
wow that blond guy should be sent to those reformative training center to talk to those young offenders...just the looks from his eyes is enough to bring them back to the correct path...lol
kelnology 1 year ago
cool, what a fucking Viking! Hail
rustedme 1 year ago
Is there a following second part to the program showed in this video? It would be nice to learn more. People need to learn about these things.
Don't keep us in the dark! Everybody who can and have the opportunity: Upload videos with good, sound information about this very problematic topic!!...
Zhawq 1 year ago
Comment removed
tobyobrie 1 year ago
Comment removed
tobyobrie 1 year ago
@AntiPsychopath great point mate, its like trying to plead to a statue to give you a hug
cveich 1 year ago
@AntiPsychopath Totally agree.
You can't treat psychopathy, that would be like treating mental illness with cutting the head off.
A psychopath lack remorse, conscience, guilt etc. You can't make someone have this all of a sudden.
Therapy only makes a psychopath "smarter" in how to avoid being detected and learn even more how to manipulate people.
Do they really think they are making progress cause the psychopath say:
"Oh, I've learned my lesson and I want to be good"
Swecan76 1 year ago
@Swecan76 ... What you say is what I have heard and read too.
But psychopaths are not necessarily dumb, and the blond guy in the video, f.ex., could very well be telling the truth. The problem he has is that his past makes it hard for others to believe him, and you can't tell if somebody really means what they say just from hearing the words.
It is a problem, and he really can't prove his sincerity.
Zhawq 1 year ago
@Zhawq Yeah, the difficulty is that psychopaths are, in fact, incapable of truly feeling remorse, guilt or empathy, but they are capable of learning from their mistakes and staying out of trouble if only for their own self preservation, but like Swecan says, a psychopath could just as easily be lying better than ever before as they could be telling the truth about learning why to change their ways.
GilbertSmith 1 year ago
@GilbertSmith Exactly. This makes the study of treatment outcomes very difficult. You never know whether at treatment has worked or whether the psychopath has simply learned to say what he/she needs to say. I guess neurological measures such as fMRIs to look at arousal with gruesome pictures could come into it. But that would be expensive and the reliability is unknown.
Broadmoor Hospital will close its DSPD unit because it hasn't been able to prove effectiveness yet.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@GilbertSmith True enough. Still, in this guy's case I believe he has every reason to be tired of years in jail, so I believe him. I really have no reason not to.
Where the real problem arises is once he IS out. There're so many temptations, it is so easy to fall back on previous behavior, and in this regard psychopaths don't seem to learn very well.
Zhawq 1 year ago 2
@Zhawq
But Psychopaths are master manipulators and liars and born that way, so until a cure is found be afraid.
i3ever 1 year ago
@i3ever I see what you mean of course. But I'm more in favor of educating myself - and others - so that nobody should HAVE to be afraid. See what I mean? I think that's why looking into the subject is a good idea, and I know psychopaths and non-psychopaths look into things already.
But still, I understand what you mean - or I think I do, anyway. :)
You mention: "Until a cure is found...". What kind of cure do you think could be made?
Zhawq 1 year ago
@Zhawq
I know of a few psychologists+doctors in London that are looking towards microchips as a possible cure, the chip would tyipically be a brain implant that takes over the fuctioning of the amygdala.
i3ever 1 year ago
@i3ever I see, that's interesting. I've heard that researchers have theorized about possibly doing more research into this field when some time into the future we know how to construct such chips for each individual, and know how to find exactly which neurological pathways to affect, where and how. - With the knowledge they have today the closest to specific knowledge are things such as "The Corpus Callosum is longer, but also thinner, in Psychopaths' brains". But we can't just attach a chip...
Zhawq 1 year ago
@i3ever that blocks all processing between the two brain halves. And that's where the problem comes in. We know largely in which areas of the brain what kind of emotional activity takes place, and largely which neurological areas are connected to which in the process. But there're so many other processes happening through and criss crossing the same channels, that it exact knowledge at this point makes this a hypothethis at present. --You probably knew all that. :) Can you point me to a website?
Zhawq 1 year ago
@Swecan76 There's debate about htat in research, and htis question hasn't been answered unequivocally. Perhaps we need better methods of treating psychopaths, but that doesn't mean it's "untreatable".
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Chocolateluvr1987
It's untreatable.
It is not something you can just drug away.
It is a natural born condition, a Psychopath is born without empathy and you can't get that back.
You can't make someone feel something they don't even have the capacity to feel.
Only psychologists and psychiatrists wants to BELIEVE it can be treatable.
A Psychopath only learns to manipulate to make it LOOK like he is treated.
To blend in and respond better.
Still no empathy, PERIOD.
Swecan76 1 year ago
@Swecan76
We can't treat viral infections at the moment, does that mean they're untreatable?
I'm inclined to agree with the limitations of current treatments available, and when you visit places like Broadmoor Hospital,it does sound like they really WANT to believe it's treatable more than anything. But as psychologists, we have an obligation to keep searching for a treatment that really works.
I think in this case, neuropsychological studies are providing the most insight at the moment.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Swecan76 If one could find a drug which changes levels of arousal in response to stimuli, this would be one step. Of course you can't simply create synapses through some drug, but you can work with the neurotransmitters. It's also likely that the sensitive period for creating certain synapses has passed, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Humans form new synapses all the time through learning (although not as much as in infancy), and so psychological interventions are likewise important.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Swecan76 I think there's hope if you could treat a psychopath before he/she commits an offence.The arousal from the offence reinforces the behaviour strongly.But if a child with a disorganised/avoidant attachment style can learn to form attachments through high quality care, I see potential in that.It just highlights the importance of early intervention.
Psychopaths aren't simply "born with it" - our pre- and postnatal environment affect which genes are expressed and which synapses are formed.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Chocolateluvr1987
Sorry, you can have pipe dreams like that but a Psychopath is BORN that way.
No matter what you say will change this.
Psychopathy is not about arousal or feeling something special for murder.
It is simply being devoid of the normal inhibitor that helps a 'normal' human from committing murder and violent acts. IE, empathy.
If you're born blind you can't just see all of a sudden with a new "drug'.
Feel free to invent a brain transplant of the empathic area of the brain.
Swecan76 1 year ago
@Swecan76 "No matter what you say will change this."Well, I'm glad psychological practice is based on research, not simply people's opinions.The research so far suggests that it's a mixture of heritable, innate factors and environmental factors which affect early brain development.Family factors do come into this. Not every person who suffers abuse becomes a psychopath, but abuse and neglect support a negative development in people who are predisposed towards it. It's an interactive process.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Chocolateluvr1987 From what I've read and heard, psychopaths are born, not made, and they cannot be rehabilitated. Yes, childhood abuse can breed antisocial tendencies, but that is something different; it is not psychopathy.
LordBifford 1 year ago
@LordBifford Actually,the jury IS still out on this.Evidence so far suggests that you have to work differently with psychopaths than with offenders with an Axis I mental illness.You basically don't appeal to the emotional side of things or go through victim statements,but try to enhance self-regulation/control strategies.It's hard to test the effectiveness of this as most diagnosed psychopaths who are getting this treatment have committed offences which will keep them in prison for a long time.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@LordBifford So the only outcome measures you've got is institutional behaviour,which psychopaths tend to be quite "good at" anyway.Check out the research done in places like Broadmoor and Rampton.I just got back from a conference and some of the stuff did sound promising.I just think our understanding is still quite poor.There is definite evidence for biological factors - but I doubt that this is all innate; I think it relates to the way synapses are formed in infancy in relation to attachment.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Chocolateluvr1987 Hare writes that psychopaths are not interested in reforming. They do not believe anything is wrong with them; they think they are totally awesome. Even if they did accept their "problem", they lack the discipline and commitment to pursue any sort of therapy you might give them.
Sometimes I think the only way to fix a psychopath is brain surgery, ie physically rewire those parts of the brain that should make them empathetic and responsible. But that is still sci-fi.
LordBifford 1 year ago
@LordBifford I agree that at the moment, we may not have the means tl "make" a psychopath empathetic and warm. That's just not going to happen. But you do have to look at the Big Five and how they relate to psychopathy, and you can certainly improve behavioural management strategies. This is very, very resource consuming as I'm sure you're aware (as in years of intense group/individual therapy). We do need better outcome measures, but we also need to clearly define our goals.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@LordBifford So to clarify my last three points: With the way things stand now, I don't believe we can "cure" psychopathy, and maybe the construct does reflect a medicalisation of certain behaviours. However, I do believe that treatment can be effective in terms of enhancing managability of patients, e.g. in medium rather than high security. Research on group therapy shows that the first dimensions to improve are hostility, dominance and coerciveness.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@LordBifford It actually seems that childhood has a lot of impact upon how a psychopath develops and behaves when s/he grows up - especially in terms of physical violence.
Zhawq 1 year ago
@Zhawq A well-bred psychopath has the skills and social savvy to become a white-collar criminal, committing crimes that are easier to disguise and less punishable by law. The poorly-bred psychopath becomes yet another violent thug.
LordBifford 1 year ago
@LordBifford Yep, that's exactly how I see it! ... However, there're always exceptions, but that goes for every level of society.
Zhawq 1 year ago
@Swecan76 Psychopathy is not the same as arousal about murder, but psychopaths tend to feel chronically underaroused by stimuli from an early age. They not only lack empathy, but also sensitivity to auditory and visual stimuli that make other people startle. This triggers sensation seeking in unusual ways.
Psychopaths also do not lack a part of a brain (there's not a hole where their limbic system should be), but connections with this part haven't been established.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Chocolateluvr1987
I did not suggest there is a hole in the brain, geez.
They simply don't have the ability to feel empathy, their brains are not right.
Psychologists and psychiatrists think they can somehow cure or treat psychopathy yet they are easily tricked by a psychopath and all they do is teach them how to fit in better and manipulate better.
I wonder how many bad people the people in the field of psychology has let loose cause they are inept when it comes to psychopaths.
Swecan76 1 year ago
@Swecan76 Yes, their brains are not right because crucial connections haven't been formed. But the jury is still out on whether these connections can be formed later or not. What is known is that in other areas, people do learn later in life, just more slowly.
I don't doubt that psychologists/-iatrists have been manipulated by psychopaths in the past, but that's what supervision is for. You're supposed to prevent these things through peer review. Of course that's a problem when everyone's wrong
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Swecan76 Also, it's very hard to actually let a psychopath loose by the time they're referred for treatment, because their offences will unfortunately have been very serious at this time. Where they are let loose early, this is a flaw in the legal system that I think needs to be remedied. I personally don't agree with anyone who has committed serial murders/rapes ever getting out of prison, whether they are a psychopath or not. But we still need to investigate avenues for treatment.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Chocolateluvr1987
look i don't know what you're afraid of i'm a psychopath and i know what's wrong and what's right it's true i fake my feelings but i just do that to fit in and it's true that i spend a lot of time thinking of ways to kill but that doesn't mean i'm going to
it's also true that i do want to kill but that urges can be controled easily but i'm only 18 who knows what will happen in the future
anyways don't worry i will never kill you LOL
the last line was me being charming
25person52 1 year ago
@25person52 How do you know you are a psychopath? That's a pretty tough label to have stuck to you by anyone, very finite. I hope you do seek help, especially with urges to kill. To clarify: I wasn't saying all psychopaths are murderers or that there can be no help whatsoever. But people who have committed serial offences have already been reinforced so strongly in that behaviour. It's harder to control an intrinsically rewarding behaviour that you have actually engaged in several times.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
The more you fantasise about something, the more elaborate that fantasy tends to become and the stronger the urge to act it out. But in my opinion, there is an intervention potential there.
Obviously, psychopathy exists on a continuum in the general population and that isn't anyone's "fault". I just don't think it is safe/moral to loosen security on serial offenders because they are deemed to have been "treated", when it isn't certain whether treatment is effective.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Chocolateluvr1987
well let me tell you something you might laugh at me but it's the truth you're free to believe me or not
the thing is that i'm not just a psychopath i also have an OCD and i'm a Narcissus person
as i already said you're free to believe or not
and lately i've been feeling sexahly attrachted to little girls but of course i would kill my self before i harm any of them
anyways i don't know what got me so fucked up like this but you should know that i'm trying to get better
25person52 1 year ago
@25person52 Sorry to hear about your struggles (I'm hoping this isn't some sort of sick joke). Again, I wasn't talking about locking away all people who struggle with this - just people who have actually committed offences. I'm not sure if I think you are a psychopath based on the fact that you empathise sufficiently to try not to hurt anyone in reality, but then I don't know you. I just hope that you try and get psychiatric help now. Good luck getting better.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@Chocolateluvr1987 I see that a great problem with psychopathy is that its symptoms are hard to quantify and can easily resemble similar disorders that stem from nurture rather than nature. No wonder Prof Hare has such a hard time promoting his concept of psychopathy.
LordBifford 1 year ago
@LordBifford I don't think Hare has a hard time being accepted in clinical pratice.The PCL-R is pretty much used everywhere, although some research indicates that a more personality dimension oriented approach might be useful.Even thinking about psychopathy as biological doesn't necessarily make it untreatable or impervious to psychological intervention.I agree that motivation is difficult, but when you've had everything taken away you need to change, even if it's superficial at first.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago
@LordBifford I am not convinced at all that "nature vs. nurture" is a dichotomy. I think like with every other disorder, psychopathy shows a gene-environment interaction, especially with the early environment which has been strongly linked with psychopathy. Emotional deprivation in early childhood is indicated as a strong contributor, even though it is not a sufficient cause in the sense that everyone who suffers this will be psychopathic. We also need to look at comorbidities, e.g. with ADHD.
Chocolateluvr1987 1 year ago