Well, regardless of the romantic relationship to madness, history has generally regarded Ludwig as mad. I think the point is also that it was considered "madness" to still be a romantic when the aristocracy was on the decline. He is viewed as clinging desperately to the past.
Ach Tannhäuser ist so herzerfrischend. Ich liebe die Atmosphäre, die er erschafft. Trägt einem weit fort in einen narkotischen, man möchte sagen, meditativen Zustand.
A fascinating, unforgettable film, and I am not crazy about Visconti! Saw the last world screening of the last full version of this about ten years ago in Paris. The print was hopelessly shredded. Any other version has been fiddled with. Due to lack of funding, the correct version is lost. I sat spellbound, weeping at points.
I don't belive for one second the stories circulated in modern times accusing him of "latent homosexuality". These stories were spread to demonize and villify him because he was a German king and a nationalist. Same old tired tactics of the far 'left".
@TheDrLovecraft For all we know, he wasn't a "latent" homosexual, but quite an explicit one! But what's the trouble? I can't see any, regardless whether scoundrels try to blacken his memory or not! Was he gay? So what? It diminishes his uniquenes only in petty minds! Probably he was autistic, full of "crazy" ideas! One of them was the furtherance of modern aviation! This "aviation craze" brought about his downfall, the government declaring him incurably insane! Aviation? Wow! What have we today?
@Rotebuehl1 Ludwig was gay--its well documented--so what--I agree!!! It partially made him the unique, creative person that he was. you can't blacken a person's memory by calling them gay--its who they are. Being cruel, a murderer, sure. There's always been gay people in the world since the cave man.
@tnecklover you don't know a lot. I've read 10 bios on Wagner and the King. You do some reading for a year, then come up with an educated statement,and I'll give you a little credit--till then....
@windstorm1000 The diagnosis did not exist in Ludwig's time. It explains why Ludwig was so obsessed with Wagner's operas and building those castles. I have read several biographies of Ludwig and know a thing or two about Asperger's and he showed too many of the signs of it for it to be a co-incidence.
@tnecklover R you a psychiatrist? I'm not either, But Aspergers APPEARS the wrong diagnosis. Ludwig had good non-verbal skills--(the lack of is one sign of A.'s). He was anti social, went on nocturnal rides, but these r not 'tight enough' 2 be strictly A.'s. His obsession w Wagner? There's millions of obsessed people, but that doe not mean they have A.'s. I was obsessed w James Dean--had more to do with my bi-polor--now THAT is something L. may have had . Or not. He was unusual.
I'll never forget when I first heard Tannhauser. In 7th grade, our music teacher played snippets of the "greatest classical hits". It really hit me! Wow!
OK Capitano, if you insist on talking through your ass, that's your problem... or... wait a minute... Are you talking through your mouth really? Ooo! you have a stinking breath!
Sorrym Capitano, but if you want to sing, or at least speak to make this type of commentaries, you should use your mouth. I mean, the upper mouth, the one you have in your face.
@vigwig No, it wasn't--except for Ms. Schneider and the production values--it really is a big bomb of a movie...wonders all over the place and Berger--though looking much like Ludwig--was really boring in the title role. Also the movie, curiously enough, did not cover enough of Ludwig's sexual life which would have given it more dramatic truth (strange considering Visconti was gay). 'Boring' film--I fell sleep watching it--and I LOVE Ludwig.
He was not mad. In the 19th century, there was a movement called romanticism, in which art and literature played a great role. I will call Ludwig a romantic, because he identified with the heros of ancient tales of Central Europe (Lohengrin, for example), and Wagner was doing music for these tales. As far as I know, Ludwig was not the typical militaristic Kaiser, and people from Bavaria loved him. In comparison, Federick the Great, Bismark and Wilhem II were mad.
That's ridiculous. Frederick the Great, while not a Romantic, was hardly the "Prussian Hun" you're trying to portray him as. As a King, Ludwig was inept, but as a man, he was comparable with a Trojan hero.
@ElysiumFilms It is not so ridiculous as it seems...Ludwig kept Bayern in peace, Frederick started a war against most of Europe....for a few provinces in the East. This was probably "normal" for a king in the 18 century, but soon he had to take the peasants and the sons of the peasants (Knechten, so serfs) to the war. In the last moment, his armies were made of teenagers and kids. He was intelligent enough to expand his kingdom, but people suffered...
Ludwig did go to war, against Prussia as Austria's main ally. But that is irrelevant, as all Kings create and perpetuate suffering. How do you think Ludwig paid, at least in part, for the works for which he is now famous? Quite obviously, he taxed the middle and lower classes, who were already suffering from being outcompeted by British and Prussian industry. But again, it is irrelevant; I was merely remarking that the Bavarian vs. Prussian comparisons are inaccurate.
@ElysiumFilms In fact, Ludwig went to war once but he never repeated such an action. I personally prefer to pay taxes for a king that keeps the country in peace, that giving my sons to a mad man to get killed.
Preserving yourself has suddenly become an indicator of success? Is Egypt greater than Rome was because it survived in the most decrepit form? Clearly not.
@ElysiumFilms What a prevaricate comparison!!! Slightly far-fetched, don't you think? And what's that about "success"? "Success" according to what presupposition, in which measure, compared to what? One could go on with this for ages! Bavaria is certainly anything but decrepit, and yes, it didn't only "survive", she's sturdy, autonomous, very alive and hard kicking! B.t.w., if Bavaria is "decrepit Egypt" who is then the "Roman Empire" in this second-rate-arguments contest....ehhh...context?
The success of a state has always been determined by its sovereignty and its assertiveness. Prussia had more of both of these during its existence than Bavaria had both at the time and ever since.
Please stop crying - I was defending Prussia against a ridiculous and often repeated attack from those without an understanding of history or Germany.
How condescending! Very civilised and well mannered, indeed! Then have a good life with all precast predications, pretensions and, above all, cantankerousness! Must be fun...
i totally agree with you. I know that Ludwig is neither mad nor gay, he just loves arts, beauty of life, he is as pure as a baby, with pure hearts, even when he is older.
I also don't think he commit suicide, he must have been murdered.
i totally agree with you. I know that Ludwig is neither mad nor gay, he just loves arts, beauty of life, he is as pure as a baby, with pure hearts, even when he is older.
I also don't think he commit suicide, he must have been murdered. It's such a sad thing!
@KronprinzAdam Talking to statues at dinner isn't mad? Bankrupting one of the richest nations in the world at that time for ridiculous estates isn't mad?? I agree with parts, but yes, Ludwig was crazy. And who loved him in Bavaria??!
@snothepro According to my information, he used his own family funds to build his castles. I think he was somewhat eccentric, but not dangerous at all. The dangerous ones ruled Berlin at that time.
@KronprinzAdam You're right--Ludwig was far from mad--maybe eccentric. Yes, he was anti-military & democratic. He was a mystic in a dull world--his castles& his saving Wagner were genius. Those castles, by the way, r the top visitor attr's in Germany--bringing in 1000's of euros each year. The public can't get enough of their romantic aura--or of Ludwig. His imprisonment & death certainly will always be a stain on the Baverian gov.'t. But his legacy will forwever be with us.
Well, regardless of the romantic relationship to madness, history has generally regarded Ludwig as mad. I think the point is also that it was considered "madness" to still be a romantic when the aristocracy was on the decline. He is viewed as clinging desperately to the past.
melissa13699 2 months ago
Welches Stück von Tannhäuser ist das? Gefällt mir total gut.
TheAIKa7777 8 months ago
@TheAIKa7777 Lied an den Abendstern
DeusEx47 7 months ago
@DeusEx47 Vielen lieben Dank. Habs gleich gefunden...
TheAIKa7777 7 months ago
Ach Tannhäuser ist so herzerfrischend. Ich liebe die Atmosphäre, die er erschafft. Trägt einem weit fort in einen narkotischen, man möchte sagen, meditativen Zustand.
TheAIKa7777 8 months ago
A fascinating, unforgettable film, and I am not crazy about Visconti! Saw the last world screening of the last full version of this about ten years ago in Paris. The print was hopelessly shredded. Any other version has been fiddled with. Due to lack of funding, the correct version is lost. I sat spellbound, weeping at points.
CuteCatFaith 10 months ago
Merveilleuse serenade de WAGNER merci a bientot
raymond13008 1 year ago
I don't belive for one second the stories circulated in modern times accusing him of "latent homosexuality". These stories were spread to demonize and villify him because he was a German king and a nationalist. Same old tired tactics of the far 'left".
TheDrLovecraft 1 year ago
@TheDrLovecraft For all we know, he wasn't a "latent" homosexual, but quite an explicit one! But what's the trouble? I can't see any, regardless whether scoundrels try to blacken his memory or not! Was he gay? So what? It diminishes his uniquenes only in petty minds! Probably he was autistic, full of "crazy" ideas! One of them was the furtherance of modern aviation! This "aviation craze" brought about his downfall, the government declaring him incurably insane! Aviation? Wow! What have we today?
Rotebuehl1 1 year ago
@Rotebuehl1 Ludwig was gay--its well documented--so what--I agree!!! It partially made him the unique, creative person that he was. you can't blacken a person's memory by calling them gay--its who they are. Being cruel, a murderer, sure. There's always been gay people in the world since the cave man.
windstorm1000 1 month ago
I think Ludwig had Asperger's Syndrome. It explains his love of Wagner.
tnecklover 1 year ago
@tnecklover you don't know a lot. I've read 10 bios on Wagner and the King. You do some reading for a year, then come up with an educated statement,and I'll give you a little credit--till then....
windstorm1000 1 month ago
@windstorm1000 The diagnosis did not exist in Ludwig's time. It explains why Ludwig was so obsessed with Wagner's operas and building those castles. I have read several biographies of Ludwig and know a thing or two about Asperger's and he showed too many of the signs of it for it to be a co-incidence.
tnecklover 1 month ago
@tnecklover R you a psychiatrist? I'm not either, But Aspergers APPEARS the wrong diagnosis. Ludwig had good non-verbal skills--(the lack of is one sign of A.'s). He was anti social, went on nocturnal rides, but these r not 'tight enough' 2 be strictly A.'s. His obsession w Wagner? There's millions of obsessed people, but that doe not mean they have A.'s. I was obsessed w James Dean--had more to do with my bi-polor--now THAT is something L. may have had . Or not. He was unusual.
windstorm1000 1 month ago
@windstorm1000 I have Asperger's myself. I know what to look for.
tnecklover 3 weeks ago
I'll never forget when I first heard Tannhauser. In 7th grade, our music teacher played snippets of the "greatest classical hits". It really hit me! Wow!
mpjrdldn 2 years ago 2
Fantastic!
Eadaoinlugh 2 years ago
It's my favourite scene from one of my favourite movies.
unfaehikus 2 years ago 4
Is the man bowing to Ludwig Joseph Kainz, ich meine Folker Bohnet ??
momomarusen 2 years ago
Yes, you're right. It's Folker Bohnet as "Joseph Kainz".
unfaehikus 2 years ago
thank you. my favorite part.
novakati 2 years ago
OK Capitano, if you insist on talking through your ass, that's your problem... or... wait a minute... Are you talking through your mouth really? Ooo! you have a stinking breath!
Try chlorophyll
jotahuene 2 years ago
GEANT ...
fanchbrezoneg 2 years ago
Il re Ludwig me ricorda adesso a Michael Jackson..un oltro spirito puro.. prigionero della sua stessa fantasia
Realitychecho 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooing
CapitanoGUC 2 years ago
What an idiotic remark.
StephenHP62 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
sorry - i forgot about the R - i ment boooooooooooooooooring ....
CapitanoGUC 2 years ago
As I was saying....
StephenHP62 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
sory - i would like faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaart - to apologise .....
CapitanoGUC 2 years ago
Sorrym Capitano, but if you want to sing, or at least speak to make this type of commentaries, you should use your mouth. I mean, the upper mouth, the one you have in your face.
jotahuene 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaart ... :-)
CapitanoGUC 2 years ago
Santo Ludwig, re del chiaro di luna, requiescat in pace.
GustavvonA 3 years ago 2
This film was magic.
vigwig 3 years ago 8
@vigwig No, it wasn't--except for Ms. Schneider and the production values--it really is a big bomb of a movie...wonders all over the place and Berger--though looking much like Ludwig--was really boring in the title role. Also the movie, curiously enough, did not cover enough of Ludwig's sexual life which would have given it more dramatic truth (strange considering Visconti was gay). 'Boring' film--I fell sleep watching it--and I LOVE Ludwig.
windstorm1000 1 month ago
Bellissimo!!!!!!
Bravo Luchino!
Realitychecho 3 years ago 4
is this man mad or something?
astridbelge 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
He WAS known as The Mad King of Bavaria-someone compared him to Michael Jackson--true as far as it goes--Jackson had talent . . .
driftingaway1962 2 years ago
He was not mad. In the 19th century, there was a movement called romanticism, in which art and literature played a great role. I will call Ludwig a romantic, because he identified with the heros of ancient tales of Central Europe (Lohengrin, for example), and Wagner was doing music for these tales. As far as I know, Ludwig was not the typical militaristic Kaiser, and people from Bavaria loved him. In comparison, Federick the Great, Bismark and Wilhem II were mad.
KronprinzAdam 2 years ago 15
@KronprinzAdam
That's ridiculous. Frederick the Great, while not a Romantic, was hardly the "Prussian Hun" you're trying to portray him as. As a King, Ludwig was inept, but as a man, he was comparable with a Trojan hero.
ElysiumFilms 1 year ago
@ElysiumFilms It is not so ridiculous as it seems...Ludwig kept Bayern in peace, Frederick started a war against most of Europe....for a few provinces in the East. This was probably "normal" for a king in the 18 century, but soon he had to take the peasants and the sons of the peasants (Knechten, so serfs) to the war. In the last moment, his armies were made of teenagers and kids. He was intelligent enough to expand his kingdom, but people suffered...
KronprinzAdam 1 year ago
@KronprinzAdam
Ludwig did go to war, against Prussia as Austria's main ally. But that is irrelevant, as all Kings create and perpetuate suffering. How do you think Ludwig paid, at least in part, for the works for which he is now famous? Quite obviously, he taxed the middle and lower classes, who were already suffering from being outcompeted by British and Prussian industry. But again, it is irrelevant; I was merely remarking that the Bavarian vs. Prussian comparisons are inaccurate.
ElysiumFilms 1 year ago
@ElysiumFilms In fact, Ludwig went to war once but he never repeated such an action. I personally prefer to pay taxes for a king that keeps the country in peace, that giving my sons to a mad man to get killed.
KronprinzAdam 1 year ago
@KronprinzAdam
Well, your personal preferences is far from the fact. ;)
ElysiumFilms 1 year ago
@ElysiumFilms So, which is the so called "fact"? The fact is that Prussia ceased to exist, but Bavaria survived.
KronprinzAdam 1 year ago
@KronprinzAdam
Preserving yourself has suddenly become an indicator of success? Is Egypt greater than Rome was because it survived in the most decrepit form? Clearly not.
ElysiumFilms 1 year ago
@ElysiumFilms What a prevaricate comparison!!! Slightly far-fetched, don't you think? And what's that about "success"? "Success" according to what presupposition, in which measure, compared to what? One could go on with this for ages! Bavaria is certainly anything but decrepit, and yes, it didn't only "survive", she's sturdy, autonomous, very alive and hard kicking! B.t.w., if Bavaria is "decrepit Egypt" who is then the "Roman Empire" in this second-rate-arguments contest....ehhh...context?
Rotebuehl1 1 year ago
@Rotebuehl1
The success of a state has always been determined by its sovereignty and its assertiveness. Prussia had more of both of these during its existence than Bavaria had both at the time and ever since.
Please stop crying - I was defending Prussia against a ridiculous and often repeated attack from those without an understanding of history or Germany.
ElysiumFilms 1 year ago
@ElysiumFilms
How condescending! Very civilised and well mannered, indeed! Then have a good life with all precast predications, pretensions and, above all, cantankerousness! Must be fun...
We'll stop here!
Rotebuehl1 1 year ago
@KronprinzAdam
i totally agree with you. I know that Ludwig is neither mad nor gay, he just loves arts, beauty of life, he is as pure as a baby, with pure hearts, even when he is older.
I also don't think he commit suicide, he must have been murdered.
It's such a sad thing!
mirandatruth 9 months ago
@KronprinzAdam
i totally agree with you. I know that Ludwig is neither mad nor gay, he just loves arts, beauty of life, he is as pure as a baby, with pure hearts, even when he is older.
I also don't think he commit suicide, he must have been murdered. It's such a sad thing!
mirandatruth 9 months ago
@mirandatruth No, he was gay (but not mad)----there is much documentation for this. Gays are often creative and those castles are rare works of art.
windstorm1000 1 month ago
@mirandatruth And how do YOU know? Do you read his bio's, documents, films???
windstorm1000 1 month ago
@KronprinzAdam
mirandatruth 9 months ago
@KronprinzAdam Ich stimme dir voll und ganz zu!
TheAIKa7777 8 months ago
@KronprinzAdam Talking to statues at dinner isn't mad? Bankrupting one of the richest nations in the world at that time for ridiculous estates isn't mad?? I agree with parts, but yes, Ludwig was crazy. And who loved him in Bavaria??!
snothepro 3 months ago
@snothepro According to my information, he used his own family funds to build his castles. I think he was somewhat eccentric, but not dangerous at all. The dangerous ones ruled Berlin at that time.
KronprinzAdam 3 months ago
@KronprinzAdam You're right--Ludwig was far from mad--maybe eccentric. Yes, he was anti-military & democratic. He was a mystic in a dull world--his castles& his saving Wagner were genius. Those castles, by the way, r the top visitor attr's in Germany--bringing in 1000's of euros each year. The public can't get enough of their romantic aura--or of Ludwig. His imprisonment & death certainly will always be a stain on the Baverian gov.'t. But his legacy will forwever be with us.
windstorm1000 1 month ago