Part 20 of 25 Justification By Faith - Sungenis vs White

[ryangatech]

Sungenis and White both did well in opening statements and rebuttals, but I think White has the edge in the cross. It's kind of unfair, though, since he's a natural debater. It's why I prefer written debates.

[fineca]

Sungenis hit White hard on the peace issue, turned the argument around and White couldn't give a good answer

[dan0898]

At the beginning of this video James White is arguing a point he himself doesn't even believe, that a man can have "true peace" that he is saved. As a Calvinist, he believes in predestination, that a man is saved or unsaved before he is even born!

[pacislander4life]

I'm sure he would argue that the man who is saved, has peace... The man who has no peace, was not chosen to begin with anyway.

[vppoole]

Following along this Calvinist reasoning, then why should Dr. White write books about faith and justification, since those whom might eternally profit from his writings would already be saved anyway?

[pacislander4life]

books make money

[dgeradow]

It's good to have these sort of debates. Thanks for posting this. However you have to understand that a man knows He has peace when He is justified, (having repented and put his entire trust in Jesus for His righteousness and thus made righteoues before God who then seals us with the Holy Spirit as a guarentee, Eph 1:13-14). He then knows that he has been chosen, not before this. A man only has peace after justiication, not before, as he doesn't know that he is chosen

[pacislander4life]

Do you think Paul had peace after his conversion?

[elwalsho]

Absoluetly. After conversion we are at peace with Him, such was the completeness of God's work on the cross in Jesus(Eph 2:14-18). No more barriers, as Paul and the other apostles believed, because we are now in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:38-39, John 6:37-39)

[pacislander4life]

1 Cor 9: 24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives(AJ) the prize? So(AK) run that you may obtain it. 25Every(AL) athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we(AM) an imperishable. 26So I do not run aimlessly; I(AN) do not box as one(AO) beating the air. 27But I discipline my body and(AP) keep it under control,[b] lest after preaching to others(AQ) I myself should be(AR) disqualified.

[ryangatech]

That's canard, we believe one is *elected* before the foundation of the world, JUST as is tuaght in Romans 8:28-30. Besides, this dismisses the possibility Dr. White actually has true faith (only he can know). If he does, he knows his eternal destiny is secure, and SHOULDN'T have any reason to be at enmity, rather than peace, with God.

[pacislander4life]

unless he later decides so cease this peace with God...

[rhedrich3]

All who are given will be raised the last day (John 6:39-40). If Dr. White is among the given, he has, in his possession, eternal life. If he is pretending, then he will make himself known by not remaining with us (1 John 2:18-19), or he will prove to among those who have insincere faith (one which does not produce good works; Eph. 2:8-10). Even if this were the case, pretending still is not election. As he would otherwise be eternally secure, however, I do not know to what you are objecting.

[pacislander4life]

Even though my answer cannot be as poetic as yours, I will say this. It is rather bold to say that one can personally have assurance of his own salvation, when those who promote such an interpretation of Biblical texts, may very well be the pretenders you speak of. And what if their inerpretation is wrong and they were all pretenders... Are you absolutely sure you are currently saved, and that you will never stray from the flock ever until your last breath?

[rhedrich3]

I was not appealing to their interpretations; they were my own. Perhaps it is bold, but I would ask why Peter would exhort us to endeavor our election sure if there were, in point of fact, no chance that it could ever be so. I would encourage you to read 1 John and again ask whether or not it is possible to be sure of salvation.

As to your question: I would not pretend to feign the ability to continuously practice righteousness - I do sin. If that is what you meant by stray, then yes, I do.

[pacislander4life]

and what of Paul when he speaks of running the racethat he beats his body, that he too may himself be disqualified? And what of the same Paul who says do not judge me, for I do not even judge myself, for God is my judge...

[baptistfaith]

Those that died before

the coming of the Lord " Died in faith having

not yet received the promised, but saw it a

far off " Those that died before the Lord

came had to have died believing that the

Lord was going to come to this earth die and be raised the 3rd day, that is where the Lord was at preaching his own everlasting gospel 3 days , he preached to

the captives. The whole book is about Jesus

Christ, if any where in the Bible it fails

to point to the cross, God never had it wrote.

[prchdaword]

Loved the last comments about Moses and God's free choice thereof...so clear is the doctrine of election in Scripture that it would have to follow that Justification can only be by faith and not by works at all since our salvation based on God's eternal will is not by our works at all either

[wuebbsco]

I wish they allowed each person to ask questions for 10 mins or so, instead of going back and forth. This is not a good format in my opinion. but then what do I know? lol I think White had a great rebuttal on the Jacob and Esau issue. The bible says they had "done nothing good or bad". But God decided based on His own purpose that The Older would serve the younger.