Mark claims to give light to "unclear" Scripture through "clear" Scripture. Jesus said "just as Jonah was 3 days & 3 nights in the belly of the fish so will the Son of Man be." So Mark needs to clarify that "part of a day is considered a whole day." That's true in Jewish understanding but your statement contradicts Jesus & Scripture. Also, Jesus atoning work for sin WAS finished on the cross. HOWEVER, Jesus work was not. Easiest example, it's called the resurrection. Knowledge puffs up Mark.
Beautiful. I am so glad someone posted this. Everytime I hear a pastor say Jesus went to hell I want to rip my face off. What he endured was horrific and it was FINISHED when he died. Praise God!
Jesus RESTED in His tomb=Hell. He RESTED on the 7th Day=Sabbath. Also, Jesus DID NOT go to heaven! As Jesus said to Mary Magdalene,"Do not touch Me for I have not yet ascended to My Father. Hell =grave. Jesus kept the sabbath even in death.
@gangstakurv Sadly, it's because Satan blinded the minds of unbelievers and some of the believers according in 2Corinthians 4:4. Why I say Satan blinded the minds of some of the believers, it's because of their "theology" the logic of their thinking, and because of their pride, if simply they rebuke other doctrine and teaching, it must be based on the Scripture according in 2Timothy 3:16 and not of their own words and based on their understanding.
Hell sometimes define as what we call the "grave" and the other one is the "lake of fire". I think Jesus went to the "grave" then His Spirit moves into the "lake of fire" for those people who aren't saved before His time of life and death, Christ preached in hell and save people of long time ago before His time from hell, that event took only just once. Just once... It's in the study of other theology.
Paradise was Abraham´s bossom, in other words Paradise was not in heaven but right next to hell. After Jesus went over there (Paradise) he led captivity captive and then ascended to heaven, and how He was going to ascend if before He didn´t descend first into the lower parts of the earth? And was in the center of the earth? Hell. Check on Eph 4:8-11, Luke 16:22-26 (this is not a parable) and Num. 16: 31-36. God Bless You Servant of God
You know Greek doesn't have commas. Most English bibles divide it up this way. “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise" but if you change the place of the comma it says “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”
You know Greek doesn't have commas. Most English bibles divide it up this way. “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise" but if you change the place of the comma it says “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”
God is Omnipresent....so even if He did go to hell, he is not just there.....he is also in heaven....he has the ability to be at all places at all times....
See this is where Me and Driscoll knock heads. What He doesn't seem to take into account with His second point. Is heaven is outside of time. When He dies (the guy beside Jesus) wont He be taken out of time into heaven? Not necessarily into heaven where He will, three days later see Jesus come back. That would suggest time. So His theology of that has holes to Me. His "it is finished" argument makes a lot more sense to Me.
@eberhartmatt Nothing for Him to do as far as paying for our sins (cited in the video at 1:10). The Resurrection had many purposes, one being to prove His divinity.
I go to a church where we confess that Jesus died on the cross and that was it, all was payed for, it was finished. We also use that version of the Apostles creed where it says "He descended into hell." So it does not mean that Jesus died and then went to hell. The apostles creed is describing his death as being like a hellish torment. He was left by God, completely separated and cut off from God. THAT is the very definition of hell - being completely separated from God.
@jordanstr28 descended into hell is correct - he descended into the grave and three days later rose again. hell = the grave. simple. if being separated from God is hell then we are ALL in hell at some point - the earth IS HELL - thats not biblical nor is it logical.
@RedneckChexMix But are we completely separated from God? Of course we're not. God didn't create us and then just abandon us and let us be. He upholds creation, he watches over us. If he wasn't, the earth would fall in on itself, everything would be chaotic, the world would be hell. It's not like God is in heaven and we're on earth and that's it. God is in heaven but is on earth as well, he's omnipresent.
I'm confused. People who reject God are supposed to get an ETERNITY of torment and damnation. Assume there will be 16 billion people over human history. If Jesus dies for all their sins, that's 16 billion x infinity of wrath!
How is Jesus supposed to have suffered the punishment we deserve if he didn't even go to hell for THREE DAYS?
Any thoughts? It's been bugging me, despite it being somewhat of a technicality.
@Birdieupon Jesus tasted death upon the cross, which is what each one of us deserves. Even our greatest works are filthy rags before the Lord.(Isaiah64:6)
Because our sin equals death, Jesus had to die in order to take the sin penalty on our behalf. In the moment He cried out in Matthew 27:46 "My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me?", He took upon Himself the sin of the entire world and, in that moment, was separated from God.
When He said in John 19:30 "It is finished", He meant it!
@Birdieupon show me where it teaches an eternity of fiery torment in hell for sinners - he suffered and died - when u die you go to hell (the grave) so he went to the grave and then GOD rose him from the dead - we all deserve death - the messiah died. we should have been the one to die and never rise again but he was resurrected by God because he was innocent - faith and love - he showed us the way to the kingdom of GOD - by faith and love in righteousness.
Amen, Brother! Often misunderstood, seldom clarified. The word "hell" in KJV should've been translated Hades(Greek) or Sheol(Hebrew), and causes much confusion. This is a "place of the dead" as they await final judgement and resurrection for the "Great White Throne Judgement".
The souls of the righteous go directly into the presence of God: Luke23:43;2Cor5:8;Phill1:23.
Hell is a place prepared for those who reside in the "place of the dead" awaiting judgement and the eternal "lake of fire".
@Infidelrf there is no such thing as a "soul". a soul is not a spirit form of yourself - a soul is a person it is synonymous. there are many people in the room - there are many souls in the room - and nobody goes into the presence of God upon death - even David sleeps in his grave -
@Infidelrf the soul is a simple yet complicated matter - we all use it - this music has no soul - what exactly does that mean - no one knows - yet somehow we DO know - for what good is it to gain the whole world but lose your life? everlasting life is the subject here - it is a matter of everlasting LIFE or DEATH this is what messiah conquered DEATH has no hold anymore - this is not some mysterious float off to LaLa land - you have to be alive to feel (five senses) do spirits have body parts?
@Infidelrf what good would rising from the grave be if we can just die and float off to "heaven" as spirit beings - resurrection no longer has meaning if we already live forever - whether it be body or "soul" as u claim doesnt matter - everyone lives forever regardless - but everlasting life is only for those who have faith in the messiah sent by YAH.
@Infidelrf you cant just see a word in the bible and automatically think ok soul is the immaterial being inside of us all - thats crap they preach and you wouldnt think like that if you didnt go to modern day churches on sunday morning.Genesis 2:7: “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living SOUL.” here man = dust + breath, not body + soul = man - that is wrong and illogical nonetheless. we are dust, thats all
@RedneckChexMix I'm just wondering where you get your theology from. Where were you taught to discern scripture?
Biblically there is a DISTINCT difference between body and soul/spirit.
I believe this because many, many verses testify to this reality, not because I go to a "modern" church.
If you look at the subject objectively with discernment, and search out all Scripture both "For" and "Against" your argument without any preconceptions this is unmistakeable.
@Infidelrf all life derives from GOD - we did not exist until GOD formed us - we are not immortal spirits - i dont live forever - i will die someday - but i have faith that one day i will live forever and be raised from the dead to perfection - like the messiah - he set the example for others to follow - when i die i will go to hell and so will everyone else - hell is sheol/hades - merely the grave - we will ALL sleep in the graves some resurrected to eternal death others eternal life.
@Infidelrf in Revelation 20 - death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire - this is obviously imagery - death and hades (the grave) were thrown in the lake of fire - destroyed forever - for we will have everlasting life - but those who come under GODs wrath - everlasting destruction - they will be dead forever - never to see the light of day - why do you think people are so afraid to die? They only have ONE life - but not for the faithful my friend - death has no hold on us.
missed something abrahams bossom and hades are visible to both sides but there is a great gulf fixed that no one may cross on any circumstance once your in hell your seperated from god forever theres no hope of getting out
when jesus tells about the rich man and lazarus of what happens to them after they die the rich man goes to hades and is tormented with flames and lazarus goes to abrahams bosom ( paradise ) becuase he placed his trust in jesus christ .
eveyone who died before jesus died on cross went to abrahams bosssom becuase thier sins still where not washed away when jesus died he went down to get them to bring them to heaven as gods plan of salvation is fulfilled
Christ did not go to Hell. He went to Purgatory were a soul is waiting judgement. In Christian Catholic we pray for the dead for nine days to help his/her soul and ask mercy for the Lord and minimize the sin he commited here on earth. Then we pray again after fourthy days of burial.
For those of you,who are mentioning the verses that said Jesus would be in the heart of the Earth. Those verses refer to his body being put in a tomb. When Jesus said today you'll be with me in paradise, He was referring to the part of Him that passed on. That part of him went to paradise. Not Heaven, but to Abraham's bosom, which is another issue entirely.
Jesus didn't go to Paradise when He died! When He arose, He told Mary, "...I have NOT yet ascended to My Father". And the thief? He wasn't dead by sunset, which is why his legs got broken (Jews reckoned days from sunset to sunset based on Genesis 1). So neither was in Paradise that day. Jesus was saying, "I am telling you TODAY, that you WILL be in Paradise with Me." Either that Sunday when many graves were opened, or at the last day resurrection, I don't know.
Hell, Hades , Gehenna, Sheol, Perdition, the Grave are all terms used in Sacred Scripture to denote a place after death where one is not in presence of the Lord. Jesus Christ's death on the cross opened the narrow gate where Moses and Elijah were waiting for the Messiah but this was not the place of the damned. Critical Exegesis is required to reveal the Truth , not cute sayings.
For top philosophy of religion & sceptical analysis of Bible & religion try Robert M Price, John W. Loftus, Dan Barker, Victor J. Stenger. E.A.Wallis Budge translation of, 'The Papyrus of Ani' (1500BCE comp O.T.800-300BCE ish), Donald A. Mackenzie,' Egyptian myth and legend', James G Frazer, 'The Golden Bough', Thomas Paine, Joseph Wheless, Robert Ingersoll, C.Dennis Mckinsey,
There are a lot of things i agree with Mark Driscoll about.. however this is not one of them the scriptures and grammatical contexts are already listed in other comments so no reason for me to repeat them but yes Christ did go to Hell he died the spiritual death so we don't have to.. also it is against the Nature of God to predetermine peoples eternity and SEND THEM TO HELL without a CHOICE or any say in the matter God is willing that none shall perish but ALL should have eternal life Just Sayin
@RookiesProduction just because God knows what choices we will make, does not mean He choose them for us. Foreknowledge does not mean that we do not have choices.
@RookiesProduction Ok i kinda agree with you i was told that jesus went to hell to get the keys to hell so that when we finally win the battle everyone who is evil will be locked in the bottomless pit forever thats just what i was told.
Didn't Jesus go to Hell when he was alive? He had been fasting for a long time and was weak. Then he was being tempted by Satan. When in doubt look it up, right? This guy's little attempt at preaching was inaffective.
whether Jesus went to hell or not isn't the issue but rather the issue here should be that the purpose of His death was to save sinners...and whether he was in hell or not doesn't make me question his death or resurrection! This is just one of those things we might never agree on until we see Christ again!
Jn 20:16-17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Matt 12:39-40 For as Jonas was 3 days and 3 nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Christ did not say ``today you will be with me in paradice``, He said. ``I tell you today, you will be with me in paradice``. Mark, you need to study your Greek scripture more often if you want to teach. Besides, what do you know about God`s plan?
sorry, but wrong again driscoll. "i don't think Jesus went to hell"...doesn't matter what you think. acts 2:31. Jesus had to enter into eternal death (second death) to pay the wages of sin. he died a unique death - "firstborn of the dead" (col 1:18) that no other person has ever died. only eternal life could cancel out eternal death. hell is not pitchforks and fire mate, it's separation from god...hence "why have you forsaken me?". think about it, pray about it, truth will set you free bro!
@reason61 thanks for thinking. don't need reasoning though hey. just need to stick to the word. keep reading over those verses with prayer and see what conclusion you reach, there's plenty more where they came from. driscoll said "it is finished" = justification complete. he has no case. christ is referring to sacrifice is complete. rom 4:25 - he "was raised again for our justification". christ continues to work in our behalf as our high priest (heb 8).
@TheFinalMovement I'm just not seeing a logical flow of reasoning from those verses that proves Jesus died and went to hell. None of those verses say that Jesus had to go to hell, and they're all pretty inconclusive as proof that Jesus went to hell. If I were trying to make a solid case for Jesus going to hell, I would start with Revelation 1:18, but there's still not solid proof that Jesus spent those 3 days in hell.
@reason61 there are two deaths found in the bible. (rev 2:11, rev 20). when lazarus (john 11:11-14) was dead - christ referred to him as asleep. our biological death is the first death (the death that billions have died)...but christ had to die the second death to conquer sin and death. he died the second death so we don't have to...second death = eternal sepeartion from god (not eternal punishment/god isn't into torturing his kids). check out this series /watch?v=D_60qxuB8yk . cheers
what do we do with this verse? what exactly does it mean? heart of the earth makes me think of the core.....which is HOT by the way...idk. answers anyone?
umm what about Matt. 12:40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. what is this supposed to mean? and the whole you'll be with me in paradise thing...maybe He did go to hell, and Him saying you'll be with me may mean that yes he will be with God, but Jesus is not just one man but part of Three, which are one. I say this not to say Driscoll is wrong I'm right, my question is
He went to preach a gospel not for salvation but to the spirits in prison whom heard the message not to be saved but informed. Christ died for the elect but not all old testament saints had clear revelation of the gospel of imputed righteousness.Hearing the gospel completed what was done for them in retrospect.These were those who died nolt having heard, not in hell the place of judgment but prison of spirits not yet made perfect in Christ's message.The word hell is grave or holding or prison
@michaeljefferies909 So if God decides to send holy people on earth to represent him does that mean its all a lie? The apostles wrote the Bible and documented everything that happend in Christs' life, it does'nt give you the special power to try to interpret what God meant, You are a fake imposter wolf in sheeps clothing who lives off the back and ignorance of people in your church. Jesus founded his church on "Peter the Rock" NOT Mars Hill the crook. The Apostles Creed is 100% credible and true
@jmoonsuede as far as i'm aware, the original apostle's creed was not actually written by the apostles themselves. Galatians, on the other hand, was written by the apostle Paul
@michaeljefferies909 It is not possible to apply the criterion of inspiration or of absolute truth in a mechanical way, extrapolating a single phrase or expression. While Catholics believe the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and that it is true, one cannot take individual biblical quotes or passages and say each one is literally true
@michaeljefferies909 An interpretation of the sacred writings that disregards or forgets their inspiration does not take into account their most important and precious characteristic, that they come from God.
@michaeljefferies909 A commitment to discovering ever more the truth of the sacred books, therefore, is a commitment to seeking to better know God and the mystery of his saving will.
Once again Mark you prove that you do NOT have enough understanding of scripture to be preaching to anyone. When Jesus said "It is Finished" he was referring to the Old Testament salvation. A lightning bolt struck the Vail of the temple and split it wide open--this was a place that only the high priest could enter into to commune with God for the sins of the people. In the NT the Spirit dwells in man the new temple of the Holy Ghost. Which we receive after our baptism into Jesus name.
@wilby1414 Jesus did NOT go to HELL but he did go to prison to free the 144,000 saints from the old testament. NOW, wherever the Spirit of God dwells it is paradise, so when Jesus arrived there it became paradise. These saints were waiting for the final sacrifice so Jesus could remove the Keys of Hell and of Death from Satan thereby freeing the saints. Baptism into Jesus name changes us from death to life because Jesus now has power over death. Also the 144.000 are the bride of Christ.
@wilby1414 sorry but why do you have supreme knowledge on why Jesus said that? I believe that it has many meanings. Im not thinking Mark Driscoll is right in everything. I think he's got it wrong. But who are you to judge if he can preach.
@grooveryda The lightning BOLT struck the VAIL of the TEMPLE when He said it! Do you even know what the Temple was all about and why it is so significant that the VAIL was split wide open?
I do understand scripture and truth ---- and LIES when I hear them.
He is preaching lies about salvation and many other things as well. You should be glad when someone comes along and teaches the truth in scripture instead of just supporting the liars.
@wilby1414 did i ever say i didnt agree with you? Jumping on the defensive by going on the "My views are better than everyone else" attack. You cant claim to have superior knowledge over anyone. no wonder atheists believe Christians are arrogant when your posting
"I believe that it has many meanings" This is not in agreement with me and there is only one meaning and it is a critical meaning to the proper way we must be saved in our life time. People are confusing the two processes without realizing that the former one is 'FINISHED'
No Jesus, (if he existed) did not go to hell because neither hell nor heaven exist. All life including us primates evolved. There is no scientific evidence of any creator, intelligent designer or any god.
@StrumstickJoe "'Good” is subjective – except for the general rule of “no harm to others”. Where exactly is that general rule derived from? In your first post I see you mentioned we are no more than dust and we return to stars when we die. If I'm a random collocation of atoms, an organism, why then do I have to play by any other organism's silly rules of not hurting another person? If we're just star dust then there is no such thing as objective morality, aka no such things as good or bad.
@RealBloppy …but we don’t harm each other like playing lion cubs don’t harm each other. I don’t stay moral because of fear of hell - but because I don’t want to harm anyone.
You are not random, you are the result of an evolutionary process that continues. Maybe one day we will evolve enough to cast off all superstion, and unsubstantiated beliefs in the supernatural;, and it is to be hoped that it will happen before the religious nuts kill us all off.
@RealBloppy If you need me to tell you why you shouldn't harm others, then I think you should seriously worry about your moral senses. If you need a mythological being (derived from previous myths) to pass a bearded man a message in stone, to pevent you from killing people, then something is lacking in you. I don’t actually believe that, you are probably a good person, (even though your last sentence is a non-sequiter)… ;-)
@StrumstickJoe You're avoiding the example of absurdity I highlighted in your premise. You basically just said we're evolved dust. Well, following that to it's logical extent, what then is the moral basis for you to say something is OBJECTIVELY good or bad? Because at that point, we'd just be highly advanced bonobos. And why do you have the privilege of saying your morality is superior to that of say, the Nazis? Or cannibals? There is no objective morality in evolution.
@RealBloppy … I’m pretty sure you’re not saying that I have their abysmal morals because I don’t believe in god. I’m also certain that you cannot explain at what point in the evolutionary table your god checked in and put his “man-creature” on the earth, and what made him decide to create all the dead-ends that have been and gone.
No, we are not the fruit of inbreeding in eden – nor on Noah’s ark.
Our molecules are made up of the same base material as the stars. And that’s where we’re goin!
@StrumstickJoe I'm absolutely not saying that you have their morals if you don't believe in God. Nor am I, or should any Christian say, that one needs to believe in God in order to have morals. What I am saying is that without God, there's no ultimate basis to define what is definitively good or definitively bad. Social evolution can't do it because at that point there's no way to distinguish whether cannibals or Nazi's or Amish people are good or bad. We'd just be organisms bumbling about.
@RealBloppy …I tried not to avoid your question, but rather to answer it by example: most species have behaviour restrictions which enhance their survival chances; not killing and eating your friends is good. I would hope that my posts show me to be reasonable, but you have to explain why your god created those with distorted moralities, like the nazis, the cannibals, the paedophiles, the gansta rappers. I feel I have the right and the judgement to say I have better morality than them;…
@StrumstickJoe "but you have to explain why your god created those with distorted moralities, like the nazis, the cannibals, the paedophiles, the gansta rappers. I feel I have the right and the judgement to say I have better morality than them" Sure thing. I believe that as free human creatures we have the ability to make choices to willingly ignore the eternal and necessary God of the universe. God didn't create people to be bad from the beginning.
@RealBloppy 2.1)I have moral values and duties – it is an insult to suggest that someone you don’t know can have no absolute morals. Christians do say that. I say that the nazis eschewed any moral sense, right or wrong, does that not demonstrate and objective moral judgment ?…
@StrumstickJoe And The Bible doesn't teach that Christ comes to make us "good because we're bad." Christ came to make dead people live. Our spiritual deadness is what separates us from God. Which brings to the table another argument for the existence of God. The perfect person of Jesus Christ. Are you willing to refute the existence of Christ? Or just his divinity?
But according to your myth, he DID create them evil.
Christ was sacrificed to “save us”, wasn’t he? (Human sacrifice is immoral)
I refute his existence but say that even if you proved it (and the virgin birth, and the miracles, and the resurrection) you would still not have proved his divinity
@RealBloppy 99% of all the species who have ever lived on earth (including the “homo” species) have become extinct. Homo sapiens only just survived the migration out of Africa following climate change. What kind of planned creation is this? Your god also thought up hammerhead sharks (?) and a fungus that grows exclusively in an ant’s brain, killing it, then growing out a tendril to entrap the next passing ant… etc. Evolution can explain these things, but your god, what’s his excuse…?
@StrumstickJoe I'm 100% with you, it's great to see there are some sane people in this world. If god made us primates and created life then he is a mass murdering, infant killing, homophobic, gynaephobic, capricious sadist. Luckily there is no scientific evidence that any god exists let alone Yahweh, the god of the Bible, Koran and Torah.
@roac7777 …BTW Their bible mentions many gods – it really isn’t montheistic at all – and they got themselves in a mess with the trinity idea – that took some digging out of (Though I genuinely don’t understand the solution they came up with – nor the “he died for your sins” fable.) Thanks for your comment.
@roac7777 As you can see, I’m still struggling with perverse religious thinking.
They claim the moral ground, and will not hear of any claim that someone without their god can have a moral baseline. But it is they who threaten children with eternal punishment. (It seems they are a major physical threat to children as well – that’s unforgivable!)…
@StrumstickJoe Hahaha, hammerhead sharks? Really? That disproves the potential existence of an eternal mind/creator? Evolution does nothing to disprove God. In fact, a good amount of evolutionary scientists are believers in some kind of God. So good try but please stop throwing red herrings around. You again have evaded the claim that without God, absolute and objective moral values and duties do not exist. We're merely organisms and morals are merely wishful illusions.
@RealBloppy 1) Hammerheads are a pretty dumb creation! ;-) Just like that ant thing. Neither are red herrings; both are examples of pointless paths in evolution. (99% of all the species who have ever lived on earth have become extinct. Excuse the repeats, but you’re not listening.)
At what point (I ask again) in the evolutionary process did your god step in and create his man?…
and Jesus did not have to go to hell the whole time... he could have descended into Hell, and make it to paradise with time to spare (He was a spirit, and could have been outside of time, but to put it into human terms)--is that not plausible?
all went to hell before the resurrection of Christ, but some where in Abraham's bosom, and some were in torment. Said it before and will say it again, the Holy Ghost is the best teacher, Invite the Holy Spirit in while you read the word, and watch the revelation he will give you!
all went to hell before the resurrection of Christ, but some where in Abraham's bosom, and some were in torment. Said it before and will say it again, the Holy Ghost is the best teacher, Invite the Holy Spirit in while you read the word, and watch the revelation he will give you!
why would jesus then say to mary, "touch me not, for i have not yet ascended?" Jesus did in fact go to hell and when he left, He also took Abraham bosom with him, just stick with the word, the word reveals he preached there! he wasnt tormented or etc... Ill stick with the Word of God and the revelation given me by the Holy Spirit, I believe the Holy Ghost, he brings back to us the remembrance of what Christ did, Jesus did in fact go to hell
@marioakayoyo Where does the Bible say that Jesus preached in Hell? And, just to let you know, the quotes that Mark used were from the Bible ("It is finished", "Today you'll be with me in paradise", etc.)
1 Peter 3:18-19, 18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
(we have to remember that before Christ death and ressurection, all souls went to hell, but hell was separated by a gulf, good in paradise, evil in torment in hell)
Oh dear, I'm sorry to see that even Marc Driscoll, whom I respect, has got it wrong. Listen folks... the revised version did not say hell. It was written in Greek and said 'katotata' meaning 'the depths'. This corresponded to 'Hades' and agrees with the passage in Peter. Medieval translators into English used the word 'hell' for OT 'sheol' and the corresponding NT 'hades'. Jesus went to Hades... it's as simple as that, and that's exactly what is described in Peter.
@555pontifex try to use some common sense. what is hell? it's a place, prepared by God, for Satan and his followers (Revelation 19/20). It's important to note in this whole discussion that GOD made hell, and GOD will be the one sending people there for eternal punishment. Hell ISN'T a place under the authority of satan and demons. God was the one that punished Jesus, not satan. Another thing. What saves sinners? Christs: blood, death, cross, etc....if Christ's death was enough, why hell?
@hubbs86 Well if you read it, you didn't read it carefully, or you've just ignored it. I'm not sure this is going to be a profitable discussion. Better leave it there, I think.
@hubbs86 ok sorry i'm not sure if u understood rite but if i did, hell is there for ppl dat dont want to accept and follow god. God gave us free will because he loves us soooo much dat he doesnt want us to follow him because we have to ;)
a revised version of the creed you say? funny because the entire christian doctrine is revised, edited and manipulated and is pretty much followed today. that means die hard are pushing inconsistencies and lies, digging themselves a bigger hole.
if Jesus himself went to hell and has to be dragged out by god himself, how can any mortal go to heaven?
Unless im mistaken at least the first three gospels have BOTH thieves on either side of Jesus mocking him and only one or two books of the new testament have one of them accepting him. No contradictions in the bible huh? Someone tell me how the bible or at least the new testament has NOT been comprimised will ya?
@DetoxMansion It's not a contradiction, but a matter of perspective! Thise who wrote the gospels Either interviewed other regarding Jesus' life (Luke) or were there themselves (Matt, Mark, John!) In Luke, (3rd) Gospel is where we find the thief mentioned. If you ask any cholar they will tyell you that Luke A physician, was one of if not, the best historian ever. He was extremely thorough and he only went with the what was verifiable. There was a theif who put his faith in Christ and was saved!
@yeshualovesme1 No offense guy but your comment sounds a lot like spin doctoring. How can anyone know how thourough and honest a historian Luke or any of the apostles were? Given the fact they died 2000 yaers ago?
@DetoxMansion He was a Doctor! Luke was a doctor, and he was one of the most respected doctors in the Roman empire. He was not a jew, why would he care about a Jewish folk tale, unless t was true? Just food for thought!
The last point is interesting. When to the thief on the cross He said "this day..." remember that Jesus rose the third day. Also remember that God is omnipresent even during Jesus suffering on earth in the flesh.
Panface has it right. In all the researching I've done, the conclusion is this:
Sheol is Hebrew, translated as Hades in the Greek. It's what we refer to as 'Hell,' now. Sheol either contains both a hellish portion and a paradisiacal portion, or Sheol and Paradise are totally exclusive. Either way, Sheol is not Gehenna, which is the lake of fire. That hell doesn't even exist yet. And Paradise is not == the "third heaven," God's throne room. Sheol and Paradise, if I understand it right, won't
@dougmoerhoffman continue to exist after the End of Days. Then the Lake of Fire (also considered 'Hell,' but not equivalent with Sheol/Hades) will be the final "resting" place of unbelievers. Believers will live on EARTH (albeit a new earth, this universe having been destroyed and a new one created -- 'new heavens and new earth') with GOD for eternity.
In physical bodies, resurrected and made perfect, according to His original plan. :)
Jesus went to paradise - which was not heaven, to talk to all those who had died before Jesus' death as without Jesus' death it was impossible for anyone to enter heaven, therefore the saints where kept in paradise which was a subsection of sheoul - 'Abrahams Bosom'
I had anxiety attacks because I saw no reason to live if Hell was true. If an eternal hell was so real then it would mean most of my family and good chunk of my friends was on their way there, and it was my job to preach and pray for them to save them 24/7. The responsibility was overwhelming and the thought of this being true was terrifying. I was in a deep depression, and went through literal hell, inside of my mind.
The verse you quoted is in a completely different context. In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul is talking to the church about the fact that some of them don't believe in resurrection. (This was the common belief of the Sadduccees) He goes on to make the point that if resurrection doesn't exist or isn't possible, then that implicitly means that Christ hasn't been raised either. So, if that is the case, and Christ truly wasn't raised from the dead, then He is a liar. Good question.
"It is finished" did signify that our sins were completely paid for, but if Christ couldn't raise Himself from the dead, then He could not have truly been God. The resurrection was proof that Jesus was indeed God and that the payment for His people's sins was legitimate. May the Lord bless your pursuit of Holiness.
One thing to address....Jesus didn't go to "paradise" immediately at His death - He rested in the tomb on the sabbath. He told Mary not to "detain" Him for He had not "yet" ascended to the Father (John 20:17). Thus if Jesus didn't ascend to "paradise" immediately at His death then the thief on the cross certainly didn't go to "paradise" without Jesus!
@stoopidbut I did not say Satan is in Hell, but for some odd reason I cannot imagine that he's in heaven, and Jesus had to get the keys from him somewhere (Granted that could just be a metaphor for Jesus conquering death, Satan's fore, but still..) besides, if you were Satan, and you had the son of God, bearing every sin ever committed, you would probably want to have a little fun, right?
Before Jesus' death, Satan was free to go where he pleased, heaven's gates (see Job), or hell, now prisoner
@JiyonMoa do you honestly believe Satan is in Hell? Satan won't be in Hell for a while yet, not until the judgment of Christ. Right now Satan is in the earthly relm tempting and tormenting people and trying to take as many people to hell when he is ,at last, sent there.
Jesus would have went to hell and to paradise to see if the people there wanted to get saved! I doubt there was many people still sitting, when He did an alter call...lol.
" With every head bowed and eyes closed, would anyone here like to recieve me as Lord and Saviour?"
What the speaker fails to realize is that before the death of Jesus, hell had two compartments with one being hell and the other called paradise where the old testament saints went after they died. They didn't go to heaven (different than the paradise referred to here). Jesus Himself illustrated this when speaking of the rich man and Lazarus after they each died. The bible says that Jesus "led the captives free (from that compartment of hell)."
None of the new testament was written by eye witnesses, let alone While Jesus was 'alive' so I mean, your point at how the Revisions were written in 400 A.D., when the original gospels were written around 90 A.D., is kind of mute. I believe they are both about as accurate as you're going to get... seriously.
could someone explain the wierd thing at the start of the video
Iamdanielg 1 week ago
The bible says he decended to the lower parts of the earth.
veeseee128 1 week ago
Mark claims to give light to "unclear" Scripture through "clear" Scripture. Jesus said "just as Jonah was 3 days & 3 nights in the belly of the fish so will the Son of Man be." So Mark needs to clarify that "part of a day is considered a whole day." That's true in Jewish understanding but your statement contradicts Jesus & Scripture. Also, Jesus atoning work for sin WAS finished on the cross. HOWEVER, Jesus work was not. Easiest example, it's called the resurrection. Knowledge puffs up Mark.
xodus1414com 1 week ago
If Jesus said He'd see the thief in Paradise later that day, then who can argue? If death by crucifixion and beating isn't Hellish already, what is?
IdaSputum 1 week ago
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I don't think he went to hell either. I don't think hell nor heaven exists, nor do I think Jesus ever existed.
warlord1981nl 1 month ago
Beautiful. I am so glad someone posted this. Everytime I hear a pastor say Jesus went to hell I want to rip my face off. What he endured was horrific and it was FINISHED when he died. Praise God!
Lovinglife1973 1 month ago 2
Jesus RESTED in His tomb=Hell. He RESTED on the 7th Day=Sabbath. Also, Jesus DID NOT go to heaven! As Jesus said to Mary Magdalene,"Do not touch Me for I have not yet ascended to My Father. Hell =grave. Jesus kept the sabbath even in death.
JeffSal999 1 month ago
@gangstakurv Sadly, it's because Satan blinded the minds of unbelievers and some of the believers according in 2Corinthians 4:4. Why I say Satan blinded the minds of some of the believers, it's because of their "theology" the logic of their thinking, and because of their pride, if simply they rebuke other doctrine and teaching, it must be based on the Scripture according in 2Timothy 3:16 and not of their own words and based on their understanding.
TheJohnmark481 1 month ago
"Jesus went to hell" meaning Jesus went to the grave. :)
TheJohnmark481 1 month ago 2
@TheJohnmark481 thank you!! i don't understand why people don't understand that!
gangstakurv 1 month ago
Hell sometimes define as what we call the "grave" and the other one is the "lake of fire". I think Jesus went to the "grave" then His Spirit moves into the "lake of fire" for those people who aren't saved before His time of life and death, Christ preached in hell and save people of long time ago before His time from hell, that event took only just once. Just once... It's in the study of other theology.
TheJohnmark481 1 month ago
Paradise was Abraham´s bossom, in other words Paradise was not in heaven but right next to hell. After Jesus went over there (Paradise) he led captivity captive and then ascended to heaven, and how He was going to ascend if before He didn´t descend first into the lower parts of the earth? And was in the center of the earth? Hell. Check on Eph 4:8-11, Luke 16:22-26 (this is not a parable) and Num. 16: 31-36. God Bless You Servant of God
recinossuasnavar 1 month ago
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You know Greek doesn't have commas. Most English bibles divide it up this way. “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise" but if you change the place of the comma it says “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”
Frannas85 1 month ago
You know Greek doesn't have commas. Most English bibles divide it up this way. “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise" but if you change the place of the comma it says “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”
Frannas85 1 month ago
@Frannas85 That changes the whole meaning! Wow!
AmericanCryer 1 month ago
God is Omnipresent....so even if He did go to hell, he is not just there.....he is also in heaven....he has the ability to be at all places at all times....
deelovesjesus2911 1 month ago 2
See this is where Me and Driscoll knock heads. What He doesn't seem to take into account with His second point. Is heaven is outside of time. When He dies (the guy beside Jesus) wont He be taken out of time into heaven? Not necessarily into heaven where He will, three days later see Jesus come back. That would suggest time. So His theology of that has holes to Me. His "it is finished" argument makes a lot more sense to Me.
MrOhjames 1 month ago
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MrOhjames 1 month ago
God and Jesus are the same person. When Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise" could he have meant the God sitting up in Heaven?
92elrtv2 1 month ago
If Jesus there was nothing us for jesus to do after dying on the cross, then does that mean theres was no reason for the resurection?
eberhartmatt 2 months ago 2
@eberhartmatt Nothing for Him to do as far as paying for our sins (cited in the video at 1:10). The Resurrection had many purposes, one being to prove His divinity.
natemup 2 months ago
It depends on how you translate...
"I tell you, today you'll be with me in paradise" or
"Today I tell you (that) you'll be with me in paradise"
Hope you see the difference I mean :-)
worraps7 2 months ago
xfhk
lakopig 2 months ago
I go to a church where we confess that Jesus died on the cross and that was it, all was payed for, it was finished. We also use that version of the Apostles creed where it says "He descended into hell." So it does not mean that Jesus died and then went to hell. The apostles creed is describing his death as being like a hellish torment. He was left by God, completely separated and cut off from God. THAT is the very definition of hell - being completely separated from God.
jordanstr28 2 months ago
@jordanstr28 descended into hell is correct - he descended into the grave and three days later rose again. hell = the grave. simple. if being separated from God is hell then we are ALL in hell at some point - the earth IS HELL - thats not biblical nor is it logical.
RedneckChexMix 2 months ago
@RedneckChexMix But are we completely separated from God? Of course we're not. God didn't create us and then just abandon us and let us be. He upholds creation, he watches over us. If he wasn't, the earth would fall in on itself, everything would be chaotic, the world would be hell. It's not like God is in heaven and we're on earth and that's it. God is in heaven but is on earth as well, he's omnipresent.
jordanstr28 1 month ago
I'm confused. People who reject God are supposed to get an ETERNITY of torment and damnation. Assume there will be 16 billion people over human history. If Jesus dies for all their sins, that's 16 billion x infinity of wrath!
How is Jesus supposed to have suffered the punishment we deserve if he didn't even go to hell for THREE DAYS?
Any thoughts? It's been bugging me, despite it being somewhat of a technicality.
Birdieupon 2 months ago
@Birdieupon Jesus tasted death upon the cross, which is what each one of us deserves. Even our greatest works are filthy rags before the Lord.(Isaiah64:6)
Because our sin equals death, Jesus had to die in order to take the sin penalty on our behalf. In the moment He cried out in Matthew 27:46 "My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me?", He took upon Himself the sin of the entire world and, in that moment, was separated from God.
When He said in John 19:30 "It is finished", He meant it!
Infidelrf 2 months ago in playlist responded videos
@Birdieupon Sinner's Death = Punishment maybe?
NickVocal 2 months ago
@Birdieupon show me where it teaches an eternity of fiery torment in hell for sinners - he suffered and died - when u die you go to hell (the grave) so he went to the grave and then GOD rose him from the dead - we all deserve death - the messiah died. we should have been the one to die and never rise again but he was resurrected by God because he was innocent - faith and love - he showed us the way to the kingdom of GOD - by faith and love in righteousness.
RedneckChexMix 2 months ago
Amen, Brother! Often misunderstood, seldom clarified. The word "hell" in KJV should've been translated Hades(Greek) or Sheol(Hebrew), and causes much confusion. This is a "place of the dead" as they await final judgement and resurrection for the "Great White Throne Judgement".
The souls of the righteous go directly into the presence of God: Luke23:43;2Cor5:8;Phill1:23.
Hell is a place prepared for those who reside in the "place of the dead" awaiting judgement and the eternal "lake of fire".
Infidelrf 2 months ago
@Infidelrf there is no such thing as a "soul". a soul is not a spirit form of yourself - a soul is a person it is synonymous. there are many people in the room - there are many souls in the room - and nobody goes into the presence of God upon death - even David sleeps in his grave -
RedneckChexMix 2 months ago
@RedneckChexMix To say there is no such thing as a "soul" has no biblical foundation whatsoever:
Math22:37says "...Love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."
Mark 8:36 "What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?"
Scripture is clear that we are a combination of body and soul/spirit-Material and immaterial. When the body dies, the spirit has departed.
Where is the basis for your theology in scripture?
Infidelrf 2 months ago
@Infidelrf the soul is a simple yet complicated matter - we all use it - this music has no soul - what exactly does that mean - no one knows - yet somehow we DO know - for what good is it to gain the whole world but lose your life? everlasting life is the subject here - it is a matter of everlasting LIFE or DEATH this is what messiah conquered DEATH has no hold anymore - this is not some mysterious float off to LaLa land - you have to be alive to feel (five senses) do spirits have body parts?
RedneckChexMix 2 months ago
@Infidelrf what good would rising from the grave be if we can just die and float off to "heaven" as spirit beings - resurrection no longer has meaning if we already live forever - whether it be body or "soul" as u claim doesnt matter - everyone lives forever regardless - but everlasting life is only for those who have faith in the messiah sent by YAH.
RedneckChexMix 2 months ago
@Infidelrf you cant just see a word in the bible and automatically think ok soul is the immaterial being inside of us all - thats crap they preach and you wouldnt think like that if you didnt go to modern day churches on sunday morning.Genesis 2:7: “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living SOUL.” here man = dust + breath, not body + soul = man - that is wrong and illogical nonetheless. we are dust, thats all
RedneckChexMix 2 months ago
@RedneckChexMix I'm just wondering where you get your theology from. Where were you taught to discern scripture?
Biblically there is a DISTINCT difference between body and soul/spirit.
I believe this because many, many verses testify to this reality, not because I go to a "modern" church.
If you look at the subject objectively with discernment, and search out all Scripture both "For" and "Against" your argument without any preconceptions this is unmistakeable.
Infidelrf 2 months ago
@Infidelrf all life derives from GOD - we did not exist until GOD formed us - we are not immortal spirits - i dont live forever - i will die someday - but i have faith that one day i will live forever and be raised from the dead to perfection - like the messiah - he set the example for others to follow - when i die i will go to hell and so will everyone else - hell is sheol/hades - merely the grave - we will ALL sleep in the graves some resurrected to eternal death others eternal life.
RedneckChexMix 2 months ago
@RedneckChexMix "Hell" is very different than Sheol/Hades.
Some poor translations mix up those different words in the historical Greek/Hebrew.
Hell is the lake of fire you mention, a place prepared for those who reject God/Jesus.
Sheol/Hades means "place of the dead" where souls await final resurrection and judgement at the "Great White Throne Judgement".
Luke 23:43, 2Cor.5:8, Phill1:23 all suggest that souls of the righteous go directly into the presence of God upon death.
Infidelrf 2 months ago
@RedneckChexMix Anyway, not meaning to get stuck in the "details" of theology, but I appreciate your passion in defending your views!
In essentials: UNITY
In non-essentials: LIBERTY
In all things: CHARITY
If you're in Christ and He in you, than we can lay our minor differences aside without ultimately dividing over them. Peace, Brother.
Infidelrf 2 months ago
@Infidelrf in Revelation 20 - death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire - this is obviously imagery - death and hades (the grave) were thrown in the lake of fire - destroyed forever - for we will have everlasting life - but those who come under GODs wrath - everlasting destruction - they will be dead forever - never to see the light of day - why do you think people are so afraid to die? They only have ONE life - but not for the faithful my friend - death has no hold on us.
RedneckChexMix 2 months ago
missed something abrahams bossom and hades are visible to both sides but there is a great gulf fixed that no one may cross on any circumstance once your in hell your seperated from god forever theres no hope of getting out
mrlukenukem88 3 months ago
@merrittdude where does it say that ?
mrlukenukem88 3 months ago
when jesus tells about the rich man and lazarus of what happens to them after they die the rich man goes to hades and is tormented with flames and lazarus goes to abrahams bosom ( paradise ) becuase he placed his trust in jesus christ .
eveyone who died before jesus died on cross went to abrahams bosssom becuase thier sins still where not washed away when jesus died he went down to get them to bring them to heaven as gods plan of salvation is fulfilled
mrlukenukem88 3 months ago
Christ did not go to Hell. He went to Purgatory were a soul is waiting judgement. In Christian Catholic we pray for the dead for nine days to help his/her soul and ask mercy for the Lord and minimize the sin he commited here on earth. Then we pray again after fourthy days of burial.
OTAKUJHE 3 months ago
@OTAKUJHE Can you back up purgatory and praying for the dead with scripture?
KyleRErwin 2 months ago
For those of you,who are mentioning the verses that said Jesus would be in the heart of the Earth. Those verses refer to his body being put in a tomb. When Jesus said today you'll be with me in paradise, He was referring to the part of Him that passed on. That part of him went to paradise. Not Heaven, but to Abraham's bosom, which is another issue entirely.
QuelDroma366 3 months ago
@lukyanova94 I think that verse may be referring to Jesus' body, not His Spirit.
dorkusaliorpus 4 months ago
Jesus didn't go to Paradise when He died! When He arose, He told Mary, "...I have NOT yet ascended to My Father". And the thief? He wasn't dead by sunset, which is why his legs got broken (Jews reckoned days from sunset to sunset based on Genesis 1). So neither was in Paradise that day. Jesus was saying, "I am telling you TODAY, that you WILL be in Paradise with Me." Either that Sunday when many graves were opened, or at the last day resurrection, I don't know.
alniea 4 months ago
The Bible does say Christ preached to the spirits in prison, why doesn't Driscoll mention that? Maybe he does if you view the entire sermon....
merrittdude 4 months ago
Hell, Hades , Gehenna, Sheol, Perdition, the Grave are all terms used in Sacred Scripture to denote a place after death where one is not in presence of the Lord. Jesus Christ's death on the cross opened the narrow gate where Moses and Elijah were waiting for the Messiah but this was not the place of the damned. Critical Exegesis is required to reveal the Truth , not cute sayings.
monkigun 5 months ago
@josiahn1 that's not what i said... you just agreed with me... i think we are on the same page here man...
RookiesProduction 5 months ago
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zytigon 5 months ago
There are a lot of things i agree with Mark Driscoll about.. however this is not one of them the scriptures and grammatical contexts are already listed in other comments so no reason for me to repeat them but yes Christ did go to Hell he died the spiritual death so we don't have to.. also it is against the Nature of God to predetermine peoples eternity and SEND THEM TO HELL without a CHOICE or any say in the matter God is willing that none shall perish but ALL should have eternal life Just Sayin
RookiesProduction 6 months ago
@RookiesProduction just because God knows what choices we will make, does not mean He choose them for us. Foreknowledge does not mean that we do not have choices.
josiahn1 5 months ago 2
@RookiesProduction Ok i kinda agree with you i was told that jesus went to hell to get the keys to hell so that when we finally win the battle everyone who is evil will be locked in the bottomless pit forever thats just what i was told.
topchick55 5 months ago
Didn't Jesus go to Hell when he was alive? He had been fasting for a long time and was weak. Then he was being tempted by Satan. When in doubt look it up, right? This guy's little attempt at preaching was inaffective.
magnumshifter 6 months ago
whether Jesus went to hell or not isn't the issue but rather the issue here should be that the purpose of His death was to save sinners...and whether he was in hell or not doesn't make me question his death or resurrection! This is just one of those things we might never agree on until we see Christ again!
ddfrisky 6 months ago 2
Jn 20:16-17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Matt 12:39-40 For as Jonas was 3 days and 3 nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
tario26 6 months ago
Christ did not say ``today you will be with me in paradice``, He said. ``I tell you today, you will be with me in paradice``. Mark, you need to study your Greek scripture more often if you want to teach. Besides, what do you know about God`s plan?
ToFollowOnlyChrisT 6 months ago
I don't think it's fair to call the early church fathers early bible teachers.
SutherlandLodge174 6 months ago
sorry, but wrong again driscoll. "i don't think Jesus went to hell"...doesn't matter what you think. acts 2:31. Jesus had to enter into eternal death (second death) to pay the wages of sin. he died a unique death - "firstborn of the dead" (col 1:18) that no other person has ever died. only eternal life could cancel out eternal death. hell is not pitchforks and fire mate, it's separation from god...hence "why have you forsaken me?". think about it, pray about it, truth will set you free bro!
TheFinalMovement 7 months ago
@TheFinalMovement I don't see how either of those verses prove that Jesus went to hell. More reasoning needed if you're going to make a solid case...
reason61 7 months ago
@reason61 thanks for thinking. don't need reasoning though hey. just need to stick to the word. keep reading over those verses with prayer and see what conclusion you reach, there's plenty more where they came from. driscoll said "it is finished" = justification complete. he has no case. christ is referring to sacrifice is complete. rom 4:25 - he "was raised again for our justification". christ continues to work in our behalf as our high priest (heb 8).
TheFinalMovement 7 months ago
@TheFinalMovement I'm just not seeing a logical flow of reasoning from those verses that proves Jesus died and went to hell. None of those verses say that Jesus had to go to hell, and they're all pretty inconclusive as proof that Jesus went to hell. If I were trying to make a solid case for Jesus going to hell, I would start with Revelation 1:18, but there's still not solid proof that Jesus spent those 3 days in hell.
reason61 7 months ago
@reason61 there are two deaths found in the bible. (rev 2:11, rev 20). when lazarus (john 11:11-14) was dead - christ referred to him as asleep. our biological death is the first death (the death that billions have died)...but christ had to die the second death to conquer sin and death. he died the second death so we don't have to...second death = eternal sepeartion from god (not eternal punishment/god isn't into torturing his kids). check out this series /watch?v=D_60qxuB8yk . cheers
TheFinalMovement 7 months ago
what do we do with this verse? what exactly does it mean? heart of the earth makes me think of the core.....which is HOT by the way...idk. answers anyone?
chewerz 7 months ago
umm what about Matt. 12:40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. what is this supposed to mean? and the whole you'll be with me in paradise thing...maybe He did go to hell, and Him saying you'll be with me may mean that yes he will be with God, but Jesus is not just one man but part of Three, which are one. I say this not to say Driscoll is wrong I'm right, my question is
chewerz 7 months ago
He went to preach a gospel not for salvation but to the spirits in prison whom heard the message not to be saved but informed. Christ died for the elect but not all old testament saints had clear revelation of the gospel of imputed righteousness.Hearing the gospel completed what was done for them in retrospect.These were those who died nolt having heard, not in hell the place of judgment but prison of spirits not yet made perfect in Christ's message.The word hell is grave or holding or prison
polopowers1 7 months ago
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@FirestormHarvest i belive that hell doesn't exist, at least in my religion
dinonemesis 7 months ago
The Apostle's Creed is accurate, you mr. "pastor" are leading the flock off a cliff.
jmoonsuede 9 months ago
@jmoonsuede the bible overrules the apostles creed. read Galatians 1:6-9. if it's not in the bible, it's not true
michaeljefferies909 9 months ago
@michaeljefferies909 So if God decides to send holy people on earth to represent him does that mean its all a lie? The apostles wrote the Bible and documented everything that happend in Christs' life, it does'nt give you the special power to try to interpret what God meant, You are a fake imposter wolf in sheeps clothing who lives off the back and ignorance of people in your church. Jesus founded his church on "Peter the Rock" NOT Mars Hill the crook. The Apostles Creed is 100% credible and true
jmoonsuede 9 months ago
@jmoonsuede as far as i'm aware, the original apostle's creed was not actually written by the apostles themselves. Galatians, on the other hand, was written by the apostle Paul
michaeljefferies909 9 months ago
@michaeljefferies909 It is not possible to apply the criterion of inspiration or of absolute truth in a mechanical way, extrapolating a single phrase or expression. While Catholics believe the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and that it is true, one cannot take individual biblical quotes or passages and say each one is literally true
jmoonsuede 9 months ago
@michaeljefferies909 An interpretation of the sacred writings that disregards or forgets their inspiration does not take into account their most important and precious characteristic, that they come from God.
jmoonsuede 9 months ago
@michaeljefferies909 A commitment to discovering ever more the truth of the sacred books, therefore, is a commitment to seeking to better know God and the mystery of his saving will.
jmoonsuede 9 months ago
Making the Bible clear? Thats a goddamn miracle.
MossyKong 10 months ago
Once again Mark you prove that you do NOT have enough understanding of scripture to be preaching to anyone. When Jesus said "It is Finished" he was referring to the Old Testament salvation. A lightning bolt struck the Vail of the temple and split it wide open--this was a place that only the high priest could enter into to commune with God for the sins of the people. In the NT the Spirit dwells in man the new temple of the Holy Ghost. Which we receive after our baptism into Jesus name.
wilby1414 10 months ago
@wilby1414 Jesus did NOT go to HELL but he did go to prison to free the 144,000 saints from the old testament. NOW, wherever the Spirit of God dwells it is paradise, so when Jesus arrived there it became paradise. These saints were waiting for the final sacrifice so Jesus could remove the Keys of Hell and of Death from Satan thereby freeing the saints. Baptism into Jesus name changes us from death to life because Jesus now has power over death. Also the 144.000 are the bride of Christ.
wilby1414 10 months ago
@wilby1414 sorry but why do you have supreme knowledge on why Jesus said that? I believe that it has many meanings. Im not thinking Mark Driscoll is right in everything. I think he's got it wrong. But who are you to judge if he can preach.
grooveryda 9 months ago
@grooveryda The lightning BOLT struck the VAIL of the TEMPLE when He said it! Do you even know what the Temple was all about and why it is so significant that the VAIL was split wide open?
I do understand scripture and truth ---- and LIES when I hear them.
He is preaching lies about salvation and many other things as well. You should be glad when someone comes along and teaches the truth in scripture instead of just supporting the liars.
I shared with you a great truth.
wilby1414 9 months ago
@wilby1414 did i ever say i didnt agree with you? Jumping on the defensive by going on the "My views are better than everyone else" attack. You cant claim to have superior knowledge over anyone. no wonder atheists believe Christians are arrogant when your posting
grooveryda 9 months ago
@grooveryda
"I believe that it has many meanings" This is not in agreement with me and there is only one meaning and it is a critical meaning to the proper way we must be saved in our life time. People are confusing the two processes without realizing that the former one is 'FINISHED'
Not arrogant just tired of uneducated opinions.
wilby1414 9 months ago
No Jesus, (if he existed) did not go to hell because neither hell nor heaven exist. All life including us primates evolved. There is no scientific evidence of any creator, intelligent designer or any god.
roac7777 10 months ago
If I ever went to heaven - it would be hell to me!
Eternity in a place of eternal niceness and worship - grovelling to an insecure, vengeful and sadistic deity?
Fortunately, none of it is true.
When you die - you die. Your molecules will go back to the stars whence they came.
So live now, enjoy it and do good.
Peace.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe How are you determining what is good?
RealBloppy 10 months ago
@RealBloppy “Good” is subjective – except for the general rule of “no harm to others”.
I think it’s good to try to leave the world a better place than you found it.
I don’t think it’s good to lie to children about there being a god, or magical miracles or heaven or hell;
Or for churches to be obscenely rich while their supporters starve;
Or for popes and archbishops to live in palaces…
Get the idea?
What do you think?
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "'Good” is subjective – except for the general rule of “no harm to others”. Where exactly is that general rule derived from? In your first post I see you mentioned we are no more than dust and we return to stars when we die. If I'm a random collocation of atoms, an organism, why then do I have to play by any other organism's silly rules of not hurting another person? If we're just star dust then there is no such thing as objective morality, aka no such things as good or bad.
RealBloppy 10 months ago
@RealBloppy …but we don’t harm each other like playing lion cubs don’t harm each other. I don’t stay moral because of fear of hell - but because I don’t want to harm anyone.
You are not random, you are the result of an evolutionary process that continues. Maybe one day we will evolve enough to cast off all superstion, and unsubstantiated beliefs in the supernatural;, and it is to be hoped that it will happen before the religious nuts kill us all off.
The world is marvellous, but not magic.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@RealBloppy If you need me to tell you why you shouldn't harm others, then I think you should seriously worry about your moral senses. If you need a mythological being (derived from previous myths) to pass a bearded man a message in stone, to pevent you from killing people, then something is lacking in you. I don’t actually believe that, you are probably a good person, (even though your last sentence is a non-sequiter)… ;-)
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe You're avoiding the example of absurdity I highlighted in your premise. You basically just said we're evolved dust. Well, following that to it's logical extent, what then is the moral basis for you to say something is OBJECTIVELY good or bad? Because at that point, we'd just be highly advanced bonobos. And why do you have the privilege of saying your morality is superior to that of say, the Nazis? Or cannibals? There is no objective morality in evolution.
RealBloppy 10 months ago
@RealBloppy … I’m pretty sure you’re not saying that I have their abysmal morals because I don’t believe in god. I’m also certain that you cannot explain at what point in the evolutionary table your god checked in and put his “man-creature” on the earth, and what made him decide to create all the dead-ends that have been and gone.
No, we are not the fruit of inbreeding in eden – nor on Noah’s ark.
Our molecules are made up of the same base material as the stars. And that’s where we’re goin!
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe I'm absolutely not saying that you have their morals if you don't believe in God. Nor am I, or should any Christian say, that one needs to believe in God in order to have morals. What I am saying is that without God, there's no ultimate basis to define what is definitively good or definitively bad. Social evolution can't do it because at that point there's no way to distinguish whether cannibals or Nazi's or Amish people are good or bad. We'd just be organisms bumbling about.
RealBloppy 10 months ago
@RealBloppy 2)…It is not moral to lie to children. Christianity does claim they are born evil.
It is immoral also to tell children that their “sins” can be passed on to someone else. Someone can take on a debt of yours, but not a wrong-doing…
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@RealBloppy …I tried not to avoid your question, but rather to answer it by example: most species have behaviour restrictions which enhance their survival chances; not killing and eating your friends is good. I would hope that my posts show me to be reasonable, but you have to explain why your god created those with distorted moralities, like the nazis, the cannibals, the paedophiles, the gansta rappers. I feel I have the right and the judgement to say I have better morality than them;…
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "but you have to explain why your god created those with distorted moralities, like the nazis, the cannibals, the paedophiles, the gansta rappers. I feel I have the right and the judgement to say I have better morality than them" Sure thing. I believe that as free human creatures we have the ability to make choices to willingly ignore the eternal and necessary God of the universe. God didn't create people to be bad from the beginning.
RealBloppy 10 months ago
@RealBloppy 2.1)I have moral values and duties – it is an insult to suggest that someone you don’t know can have no absolute morals. Christians do say that. I say that the nazis eschewed any moral sense, right or wrong, does that not demonstrate and objective moral judgment ?…
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe And The Bible doesn't teach that Christ comes to make us "good because we're bad." Christ came to make dead people live. Our spiritual deadness is what separates us from God. Which brings to the table another argument for the existence of God. The perfect person of Jesus Christ. Are you willing to refute the existence of Christ? Or just his divinity?
RealBloppy 10 months ago
@RealBloppy 3)…God didn’t create people period.
But according to your myth, he DID create them evil.
Christ was sacrificed to “save us”, wasn’t he? (Human sacrifice is immoral)
I refute his existence but say that even if you proved it (and the virgin birth, and the miracles, and the resurrection) you would still not have proved his divinity
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@RealBloppy 99% of all the species who have ever lived on earth (including the “homo” species) have become extinct. Homo sapiens only just survived the migration out of Africa following climate change. What kind of planned creation is this? Your god also thought up hammerhead sharks (?) and a fungus that grows exclusively in an ant’s brain, killing it, then growing out a tendril to entrap the next passing ant… etc. Evolution can explain these things, but your god, what’s his excuse…?
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe I'm 100% with you, it's great to see there are some sane people in this world. If god made us primates and created life then he is a mass murdering, infant killing, homophobic, gynaephobic, capricious sadist. Luckily there is no scientific evidence that any god exists let alone Yahweh, the god of the Bible, Koran and Torah.
roac7777 10 months ago
@roac7777 …BTW Their bible mentions many gods – it really isn’t montheistic at all – and they got themselves in a mess with the trinity idea – that took some digging out of (Though I genuinely don’t understand the solution they came up with – nor the “he died for your sins” fable.) Thanks for your comment.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@roac7777 As you can see, I’m still struggling with perverse religious thinking.
They claim the moral ground, and will not hear of any claim that someone without their god can have a moral baseline. But it is they who threaten children with eternal punishment. (It seems they are a major physical threat to children as well – that’s unforgivable!)…
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@roac7777 Incidentally, have you seen Christopher Hitchens (superb, articulate, deep-thinking) or Cristina Rad (funny, serious, thoughtful) on Ytube?
Type in “ZOMGitsCriss atheist umbrella” and anything by Hitchens.
If only they’d listen, eh?
If you could reason with the religious, there’s be no religion.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe No I haven't but will do. Thanks for the heads up.
roac7777 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Hahaha, hammerhead sharks? Really? That disproves the potential existence of an eternal mind/creator? Evolution does nothing to disprove God. In fact, a good amount of evolutionary scientists are believers in some kind of God. So good try but please stop throwing red herrings around. You again have evaded the claim that without God, absolute and objective moral values and duties do not exist. We're merely organisms and morals are merely wishful illusions.
RealBloppy 10 months ago
@RealBloppy 1) Hammerheads are a pretty dumb creation! ;-) Just like that ant thing. Neither are red herrings; both are examples of pointless paths in evolution. (99% of all the species who have ever lived on earth have become extinct. Excuse the repeats, but you’re not listening.)
At what point (I ask again) in the evolutionary process did your god step in and create his man?…
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
Western understanding of heaven and hell at its worst. -sigh-
michael34453 10 months ago
and Jesus did not have to go to hell the whole time... he could have descended into Hell, and make it to paradise with time to spare (He was a spirit, and could have been outside of time, but to put it into human terms)--is that not plausible?
Featherylock 10 months ago
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all went to hell before the resurrection of Christ, but some where in Abraham's bosom, and some were in torment. Said it before and will say it again, the Holy Ghost is the best teacher, Invite the Holy Spirit in while you read the word, and watch the revelation he will give you!
marioakayoyo 11 months ago
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all went to hell before the resurrection of Christ, but some where in Abraham's bosom, and some were in torment. Said it before and will say it again, the Holy Ghost is the best teacher, Invite the Holy Spirit in while you read the word, and watch the revelation he will give you!
marioakayoyo 11 months ago
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marioakayoyo 11 months ago
why would jesus then say to mary, "touch me not, for i have not yet ascended?" Jesus did in fact go to hell and when he left, He also took Abraham bosom with him, just stick with the word, the word reveals he preached there! he wasnt tormented or etc... Ill stick with the Word of God and the revelation given me by the Holy Spirit, I believe the Holy Ghost, he brings back to us the remembrance of what Christ did, Jesus did in fact go to hell
marioakayoyo 11 months ago
@marioakayoyo Where does the Bible say that Jesus preached in Hell? And, just to let you know, the quotes that Mark used were from the Bible ("It is finished", "Today you'll be with me in paradise", etc.)
Alacazam777 10 months ago
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@Alacazam777
1 Peter 3:18-19, 18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
(we have to remember that before Christ death and ressurection, all souls went to hell, but hell was separated by a gulf, good in paradise, evil in torment in hell)
marioakayoyo 10 months ago
@marioakayoyo this get's mixed up, because both are supported. I think the important this is that the work was finished at the cross.
bigguy2128 10 months ago
thanks for this vid :3
irvintiu 11 months ago
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20tweety20 11 months ago
Oh dear, I'm sorry to see that even Marc Driscoll, whom I respect, has got it wrong. Listen folks... the revised version did not say hell. It was written in Greek and said 'katotata' meaning 'the depths'. This corresponded to 'Hades' and agrees with the passage in Peter. Medieval translators into English used the word 'hell' for OT 'sheol' and the corresponding NT 'hades'. Jesus went to Hades... it's as simple as that, and that's exactly what is described in Peter.
555pontifex 11 months ago
@555pontifex try to use some common sense. what is hell? it's a place, prepared by God, for Satan and his followers (Revelation 19/20). It's important to note in this whole discussion that GOD made hell, and GOD will be the one sending people there for eternal punishment. Hell ISN'T a place under the authority of satan and demons. God was the one that punished Jesus, not satan. Another thing. What saves sinners? Christs: blood, death, cross, etc....if Christ's death was enough, why hell?
hubbs86 11 months ago
@hubbs86 Did you even read my post?
555pontifex 11 months ago
@555pontifex sure i did. you said marks all screwed up and Jesus went to 'hades'..(hell)
hubbs86 11 months ago
@hubbs86 Well if you read it, you didn't read it carefully, or you've just ignored it. I'm not sure this is going to be a profitable discussion. Better leave it there, I think.
555pontifex 11 months ago
@555pontifex in other words, you dont have what it takes to expain your wrong point. it's ok, dont waste your time trying.
hubbs86 11 months ago
@hubbs86 ok sorry i'm not sure if u understood rite but if i did, hell is there for ppl dat dont want to accept and follow god. God gave us free will because he loves us soooo much dat he doesnt want us to follow him because we have to ;)
dianita817 11 months ago
@dianita817 what the heck does that have to do with Jesus going to hell or not?
hubbs86 11 months ago
@hubbs86 ok i didnt understand wat u were saying
dianita817 11 months ago
a revised version of the creed you say? funny because the entire christian doctrine is revised, edited and manipulated and is pretty much followed today. that means die hard are pushing inconsistencies and lies, digging themselves a bigger hole.
if Jesus himself went to hell and has to be dragged out by god himself, how can any mortal go to heaven?
kralalrulz 11 months ago
Unless im mistaken at least the first three gospels have BOTH thieves on either side of Jesus mocking him and only one or two books of the new testament have one of them accepting him. No contradictions in the bible huh? Someone tell me how the bible or at least the new testament has NOT been comprimised will ya?
DetoxMansion 1 year ago
@DetoxMansion Great assumption... make your statement more accurate, try quoting in context.
momothelemur 11 months ago
@DetoxMansion It's not a contradiction, but a matter of perspective! Thise who wrote the gospels Either interviewed other regarding Jesus' life (Luke) or were there themselves (Matt, Mark, John!) In Luke, (3rd) Gospel is where we find the thief mentioned. If you ask any cholar they will tyell you that Luke A physician, was one of if not, the best historian ever. He was extremely thorough and he only went with the what was verifiable. There was a theif who put his faith in Christ and was saved!
yeshualovesme1 11 months ago
@yeshualovesme1 No offense guy but your comment sounds a lot like spin doctoring. How can anyone know how thourough and honest a historian Luke or any of the apostles were? Given the fact they died 2000 yaers ago?
DetoxMansion 10 months ago
@DetoxMansion He was a Doctor! Luke was a doctor, and he was one of the most respected doctors in the Roman empire. He was not a jew, why would he care about a Jewish folk tale, unless t was true? Just food for thought!
yeshualovesme1 10 months ago
Study Luke 16:19.
sercelulares 1 year ago
Hi there, its intresting about if Jesús went to hell or not. You can get a better picture of it when you study Luke16:19-31.
sercelulares 1 year ago
The last point is interesting. When to the thief on the cross He said "this day..." remember that Jesus rose the third day. Also remember that God is omnipresent even during Jesus suffering on earth in the flesh.
Ryabtg 1 year ago
Panface has it right. In all the researching I've done, the conclusion is this:
Sheol is Hebrew, translated as Hades in the Greek. It's what we refer to as 'Hell,' now. Sheol either contains both a hellish portion and a paradisiacal portion, or Sheol and Paradise are totally exclusive. Either way, Sheol is not Gehenna, which is the lake of fire. That hell doesn't even exist yet. And Paradise is not == the "third heaven," God's throne room. Sheol and Paradise, if I understand it right, won't
dougmoerhoffman 1 year ago
@dougmoerhoffman continue to exist after the End of Days. Then the Lake of Fire (also considered 'Hell,' but not equivalent with Sheol/Hades) will be the final "resting" place of unbelievers. Believers will live on EARTH (albeit a new earth, this universe having been destroyed and a new one created -- 'new heavens and new earth') with GOD for eternity.
In physical bodies, resurrected and made perfect, according to His original plan. :)
dougmoerhoffman 1 year ago
Jesus went to paradise - which was not heaven, to talk to all those who had died before Jesus' death as without Jesus' death it was impossible for anyone to enter heaven, therefore the saints where kept in paradise which was a subsection of sheoul - 'Abrahams Bosom'
panface1990 1 year ago
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I had anxiety attacks because I saw no reason to live if Hell was true. If an eternal hell was so real then it would mean most of my family and good chunk of my friends was on their way there, and it was my job to preach and pray for them to save them 24/7. The responsibility was overwhelming and the thought of this being true was terrifying. I was in a deep depression, and went through literal hell, inside of my mind.
Dwrancho144 1 year ago
i am a little confused... 1 Corinthians 15:17 says "and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins"
but Pastor Mark Driscoll says that when Jesus said "It is finished" then that was all that was needed to pay for our sins...
so where does the resurrection fit into all of this?
relishjoanna 1 year ago
@relishjoanna
The verse you quoted is in a completely different context. In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul is talking to the church about the fact that some of them don't believe in resurrection. (This was the common belief of the Sadduccees) He goes on to make the point that if resurrection doesn't exist or isn't possible, then that implicitly means that Christ hasn't been raised either. So, if that is the case, and Christ truly wasn't raised from the dead, then He is a liar. Good question.
DesiringJesusChrist 1 year ago
@relishjoanna
"It is finished" did signify that our sins were completely paid for, but if Christ couldn't raise Himself from the dead, then He could not have truly been God. The resurrection was proof that Jesus was indeed God and that the payment for His people's sins was legitimate. May the Lord bless your pursuit of Holiness.
DesiringJesusChrist 1 year ago
So that scripture about Jesus being in the Heart of the earth, Mat 12:40, must be in that revised edition that is wrong. Yeah, totally. NOT!
HeartofAlabaster 1 year ago
A part of a day is counted as a whole day? Jesus wasn't risen on Sunday.
skycap93 1 year ago
I REALLY am not a fan of the intro...
itsbrittanyyyable 1 year ago
One thing to address....Jesus didn't go to "paradise" immediately at His death - He rested in the tomb on the sabbath. He told Mary not to "detain" Him for He had not "yet" ascended to the Father (John 20:17). Thus if Jesus didn't ascend to "paradise" immediately at His death then the thief on the cross certainly didn't go to "paradise" without Jesus!
YouAreIsrael 1 year ago
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northmemphis48 1 year ago
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northmemphis48 1 year ago
@stoopidbut I did not say Satan is in Hell, but for some odd reason I cannot imagine that he's in heaven, and Jesus had to get the keys from him somewhere (Granted that could just be a metaphor for Jesus conquering death, Satan's fore, but still..) besides, if you were Satan, and you had the son of God, bearing every sin ever committed, you would probably want to have a little fun, right?
Before Jesus' death, Satan was free to go where he pleased, heaven's gates (see Job), or hell, now prisoner
JiyonMoa 1 year ago
FYI sin is the cause of global warming. The earth is heating up because hell is expanding to make room for all the sinners!
besides, if Jesus did not go to hell, how did he take the "keys of Life & death" away from Satan?
JiyonMoa 1 year ago
@JiyonMoa do you honestly believe Satan is in Hell? Satan won't be in Hell for a while yet, not until the judgment of Christ. Right now Satan is in the earthly relm tempting and tormenting people and trying to take as many people to hell when he is ,at last, sent there.
stoopidbut 1 year ago
oh my...
Rita12020 1 year ago
Jesus would have went to hell and to paradise to see if the people there wanted to get saved! I doubt there was many people still sitting, when He did an alter call...lol.
" With every head bowed and eyes closed, would anyone here like to recieve me as Lord and Saviour?"
lol 100% response, I am sure!
Tomek0102 1 year ago
What the speaker fails to realize is that before the death of Jesus, hell had two compartments with one being hell and the other called paradise where the old testament saints went after they died. They didn't go to heaven (different than the paradise referred to here). Jesus Himself illustrated this when speaking of the rich man and Lazarus after they each died. The bible says that Jesus "led the captives free (from that compartment of hell)."
miesels 1 year ago
@miesels Woah. I'm not defending Driscoll here but where is your Scripture supporting that?
lordaumerle 1 year ago
@miesels That is an extremely unbiblical statement. Supporting scripture, please?
JcWhatCounts20 1 year ago
None of the new testament was written by eye witnesses, let alone While Jesus was 'alive' so I mean, your point at how the Revisions were written in 400 A.D., when the original gospels were written around 90 A.D., is kind of mute. I believe they are both about as accurate as you're going to get... seriously.
DaiMasters 1 year ago
@alecphen That's the craziest thing I ever heard....
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
He didnt go to hell..He went to Sheol/Hades (green/hebrew words mean diffrent)
pbgeegee 1 year ago
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
echaves12 1 year ago