mankind never or will learn from history, everything will repeat itself just like in the historical past, only better judgement and be cautious that allow us to make a better decision and better solution of today's problem and issue in a different time and environment of different interest. since mankind established civilization on earth it has made repeated its history many times, buy only decisions based on its current interest of the moment has not changed.
Bush's war on Iraq was a terrible mistake and loss of money. The ones that benefitted the most were the Shiite Militants that were being suppressed by secular Saddam Hussein.
""I will make him crawl on his bended knees, and beg for mercy."
-Lee Kuan Yew.
SINGAPOREANS SHOULD AND WILL STILL SEEK JUSTICE FOR ALL ACCOUNTABILITY & WRONG-DOINGS AGAINST YEW EVEN AFTER HE (YEW) RETIRES OR QUITS FROM POLITICS! PAY BACK TIME!
Hey MICHAELWITHSTAND ! You are a worthless Moran , a retard and an ill charactered idiot . You don't deserve to be human , even a cockroach worth a thousand more than you . Why don't you go get yourself eliminated from this world and guys , Stop wasting time debating with MICHAELWITHSTAND , it's pointless .
Lee Kuan Yew doesn't have the moral authority t speak on ANYTHING. The man is a fascist the only reason who he fooled so many is because he's stuck just governing a city island. Singapore is no democracy. This is as corrupt as any politician can get.
@82abhilash that rating is based on foreigners perception while doing business in Singapore. Make no mistake Singapore elite is one of the worst crook in South East Asia. All because they have a dictatorship there. Absolute power corrupt absolutely for THOSE that ENJOY IT.
@MichaelWithstand Well Singpore is not a welfare state. If I where a Singaporean I wouldn't expect the government to take care of me. It is good for doing business. It is through business that people can improve their own welfare by themselves. Use the strengths of Singapore in your favor and you will be ok.
@82abhilash Never said it was. Yea until you somehow hit the nerve of one of its elite and ended up being murdered, jailed, kicked out of job and bankrupted! It's a plain fascist state. NOBODY IS SAFE except lee kuan yew and family and cronies as long as they go along with lee kuan yew.
@MichaelWithstand Murdered? Really? Everything else is seen but murder? It is not as bad as you claim. I know people living there. I have been there myself.
@82abhilash I've been there for 4 years there and I was almost killed. I was starved in their hospital intentionally. The university which I attended sent me a formal letter which was based on lie.
Singapore is relying on sophisticated PR building in other words the facade it's trying to pull is a fake. It's a one party state after all and it's a dangerous place to live in.
@82abhilash all forensics evidence gathered by a team of local(not Singapore origin) concluded that with overwhelming evidence.
Singapore court is a kangaroo court that refused any foreign expert and witnesses in the case of the late Mr. David Widjaja. The police is just an accomplice to murder who would planted false evidence and lied. It refused to present the evidence and give them back to the family of the late Mr. David Widjaja. Only a fool wouldn't conclude that it was a murder
@82abhilash Umm NTU the same university where the late Mr. David Widjaja was blatantly murdered x-). Now Singapore govt in desperation is forcing Permanent residents aka foreigners to take up Singapore citizenship or lose their work and staying permit. The country has the 2nd largest number of emigration problem, lowest marriage in the world and lowest birth rate in the world. Only nutty people could be happy in that country :-D
@MichaelWithstand My question is what where you involved in? How did you get into trouble. If you do not want to put it in the comment section, you can send me a private message.
@82abhilash and I know better because I was there. My ordeal there and the persecution that came afterward ruined my health. After me there another innocent student was blatantly killed yet justice wasn't given and it was covered up. The police is nothing more than legitimized thugs and the court will always win the rich and powerful.
@82abhilash A society that robs an individual of the product of his effort, or enslaves him, or attempts to limits the freedom of his mind or compels him to act against his own rational judgment, a society that sets up a conflict between its edict and the requirements of man's nature is not strictly speaking, a society, but a mob held together by institutionalized gang rule.
Such society destroys all the values of human coexistence and has no possible justification and represents not a source of benefits, but the deadliest threat to man's survival. If men are to live together in a peaceful, productive, rational society and deal with one another to mutual benefit, they must accept the basic social principle without which no moral or civilized society is possible: the principle of individual rights.(Anonymous)
HELLO - this wendyneo have posted so many anti PAP videos mainly because she had been JAILED for disrespect of the judiciary . Moreover , she boasted on her sites that she had dual citizenship of AUSTRALIAN and SINGAPOREAN. Not only that , she even challenge the authority to catch her , so basically, she is going nuts. She thought she had champion for the rights of singaporean but actually she is the lacky of the opposition or you can call running DOG . She is a rambo , so cocky, arrogant, &suck
What is behind the scene of America has been committing in Muslim countries?The answer are many ways which are based on the wants of Super Power. I always cry inside when I think about the plight of American people who are ignored by their satanic government because this country is controlled by the LUCIFER.
LKY is last on the list when it comes to what makes a dictator. How can this founding father be one? I'm actually confused about this; just because someone was PM for 40 years doesn't make him a dictator.
@PenaltyKillah making your people fear to challenge you makes you a dictator. throwing your political enemies into jail and bankrupting them makes you a dictator too. i'm singaporean too =)
As a last note, when we look back at WW2, do we agree that the right thing was done in defeating the Third Reich despite the enormous number of casualties incurred?
Let me put it this way. We who live in the future of the US victory in WW2 have the luxury to reflect on better ways of handling the situation than our ancestors did. But they did not have the kind of luxury that we do now and we would not have it too had they not won the war for us. If you remember that you will realize that it is the wrong question to ask. Since they afforded us this luxury, we can make sure that we will not repeat their mistakes. Let our children learn from ours.
Hi 82abhilash, I understand your point. But as I pointed out in my first post, Mr Lee is not speaking with regards as to whether the Iraq War was justified but what America should do now. As such, it is not about reflecting on the legality and on hindsight whether the Iraq War was correct. I believe my question is not wrong as the relevant thing America should be asking itself is, now we are in this predicament, what should we do about it? This is the most urgent and pertinent question to them.
Of course, the question about how we could have handled the situation different is important. It must be answered in the future. But in the midst of war, the urgent question must be how to end the war responsibly such that we leave it a safer and better place. I would think that the question of the effectiveness of the appeasement policy on hindsight would not be on the immediate list of priorities that Churchill would be concerned about in the heat of conflict.
Sorry for my mistake. My question was just demonstrating the principle that leaders should ask themselves what is the right thing they should do at this point in time, and as such it would flow naturally to the question of how to end the war responsibly. I hope this clarifies my comments.
How to end a war responsibly? End it in such a way that your enemy is no more. That a war between both factions have not only become unthinkable, but now you are allies with your former enemy, colleges that look out for one another. Through your web of interdependency all animosities of the past will slowly dissolve, giving way to eternal peace. That is the way to responsibly end a war.
Problem was that this iraqi insurgency was never an enemy of the us in the 1st place. Nor was saddam hussein. The civil was between both factions did not even breakout B4 the war had started. The responsible way to end the war is to leave asap.
The problem was caused WHEN the US invaded Iraq. Read the works of foreign policy analysts. Once the US leaves Iraq, it is largely probable than the country itself will split into 3 as part of the reflection of their 3 sects (sunni, shiite, kurd). And how do we know iraq will turn to chaos once the us leaves? These neo cons were the same guys who thought invading iraq would be easy, a cakewalk or slamdunk. If we cant trust them in the past, how do we trust them now?
But many of them remain influential in the iraq and afghanistan wars. Dick Cheney is back and unfortunately many Americans are dumb enuough to buy his criticisms. Some remain as US generals and not as politicians. When a general tells a country that more troops r needed, that is another way of saying we are losing this war. LKY has done a lot for sg and cannot be discredited. Unfortunately, he was and is dead wrong on iraq and polls show that 70% of singaporeans opposed the war and bush.
You do not decide what is right or wrong by majority vote. It will be extremely irresponsible to abandon Iraq or Afghanistan. It was done once with disastrous consequences. Don't worry. Things will be fine.
All facts point to iraq and afghanistan being significant consequences if the us stays for too long. Singaporeans have a right to tell their govt to get the hell outta iraq. YOU as an American do not. Taliban insurgency is up NOT down. Iraq just had a huge bombing last week. When was it done with disastrous consequence? Things will be fine ONLY when intelligent anti war politicians take control of this war. We should stay out of this debate if that happens.
More cowardly to attack innocent civilians in an Afghan hospital than to pull out. Yes, that is going on in Afghanistan NOW by none other than US troops. More cowardly to bang into homes at 11pm at night and telling Iraqis to get down on their knees. The US military is only good for bullying countries that r weak and powerless. Trying picking on another country their size. Just cuz u supported the iraq war doesnt mean u have the right of using lky's flawed argument.
I've heard that argument many times. You made numerous valid points but my problem is the neo cons who believe the US should open up permanent military bases in the heart of the muslim world, which led them to be attacked on 9/11. The problem is i dont know if more iraqis will die if the US leaves. Maybe this is a problem that only the iraqis can resolve. Lee was 1 who thought the US could come home by 05. I dont want his advice on Iraq. If the us could sincerely fix it, i'd support it.
The problem will get fixed and people all over the world will contribute in their own special way. Americans are just the most visible part of the whole operation. They are not very competent. Which is why competent people will back fill them. They are as a matter of fact. World peace is that important. It must be.
We all wish the problem will get fixed. However, Afghanistan is proving to be more difficult than Iraq or Vietnam. Last thing we want is the war to span longer than it needs to be like iraq. Weeks turns to months to years to a decade and so forth. From 1000 troops dead to 4000 to maybe more that were unreported. The world is also becoming impatient and yes, Americans DID take their eye off the ball in Afganistan. You r right. World peace and peace in the region MUST be worked for.
Ppl like John Kerry r not comparing the deaths to Vietnam but the conditions and reasons of Afghanistan today r similar to those back then. Ppl like us r not calling of a full pullout but a reevaluation and no more additional troops. In Vietnam, the goal was also to bring democracy, freedoms, and all that neo con lies there. Watch Robert McNamara the fog of war.
We live in better times. It is better because people learn from bad experiences and are consequently more vigilant. Social reform takes time, effort and loads of patience. Since there is no other option, it will be.
Theodore Roosevelt was also rite when he stated Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far. On the other, u speak like an idiot who knows NOTHING about iraq, its history, the different sects, or even about Afghanistan. Here is another quote for u. Afghanistan is the country superpowers go and die. Think abou that and do ur research as to why that quote is important.
Let us hope the super powers have learnt something by now. I do not think the victory in Iraq or Afghanistan can be defined militarily let alone achieved military. Military is just one component to a social reform process that must be carried out.
I couldnt agree more on ur first part and apologize for my harsh comment. Right u are. And thats my problem when some general just says we need more troops. Maybe the key to winning afghanistan is to continue this mission but with fewer troops focusing on achievable realistic results. We need the 3DS of defence, diplomacy, and development to win in Afghanistan. Afghans need to see progress in order to have renewed confidence in Nato and their govt. Pure military action will not achieve victory.
I do not think that the news gives the whole picture at all. Lots of things are happening behind the scenes. There are indications. Which is why I am hopeful. But it will be an expensive victory. Both in terms of money and lives.
I take my news from the internet. No Fox or NBC. Will the US media report on their troops attacking Afghan hospitals? I'm not saying these things at random but because of my research on Afghanistan. 2 years ago the taliban controlled 34 districts and its approx 134 now. More naive kids r paid to throw bombs at soldiers. Taliban recruitment is at higher than prior to 9/11 because of innocent casualties and poppy growth is their source. Its afghanistan the us should worry about now.
Right on the 1st part. Do u think women's rights will improve when the US leaves someday? Ask any liberal feminist. The women of afghanistan r going to be screwed either way. Nor will Afghanistan be some peace loving liberal democracy like Switzerland. The taliban is integrated into afghanistan and will be present once nato leaves. Its best for us to ensure afghanistan remains stable and not a terrorist haven. Karzai is another problem i havent dealt with and his govt is corrupt to the max.
This is all speculation. Add mine to yours. The foreign troops will dwindle in number and withdraw to their barracks. I do not think they are ever going to leave.
They better have plans to leave. Afghanistan and Iraq r not Germany. Both countries have a backwards culture in terms of social values and crazy militants out to kill Americans. Bush clearly didnt learn from Vietnam. The Soviets didnt learn from the British, twice. Independent reports have stated that Afghanistan could take 100 years for a potential democracy. I dont think countries involve have that kind of patience. Not even Americans.
If a general is calling for more troops, it means the war is about to be lost. No general is gonna ask for fewer troops. Unlike rational ppl, they believe a war can only be won by military might. Problem is many soldiers, the US in particular, r seeing their tours extended more than b4. This causes huge stress that the general doesnt address.. If we dont rationally think in this mission, NATO armies will be broken prior to any attempts to secure victory. We need fewer troops and better plans.
Agreed. Less talk of sending more troops and more discussion on strategy. Only since Obama came into office, the talk of strategy begun. For 8 years, it has been kill kill kill while taking the ball off on Afghanistan.
Americans are generally impatient people. While Afghans are extremely patient. But one things I know about Americans is that in their efforts to deal with their enemies, they try to understand them and in doing so begin to take on their characteristics. That is a consistent pattern throughout history. Afghans won't be backward by them time some people are through with them.
8 years? Yeah, they have every right to be impatient. Not under bush they didnt. Bush didnt even know what were sunni or shiites b4 invading iraq. His exact quote" I thought they were all Muslims." Thats stupid, annoying, and ignorant. Only now has America understood Afghanistan, its history, and the importance of the taliban. We still have more work to do. There r ex soviet generals dying to talk to the US and vice versa. Gotta reach out for their advice. Afghanistan wont be "westernize".
I do not think you need to apologize. This is an emotionally charged topic. Lot of innocent people are being killed on both sides and no one knows what the end will look like.
Of course, this leads me to Mr Lee's last point about the obsession with casualties. In any war, there would be casualties. This is undeniable. And I understand that his point about "all these will be forgotten" has caused some controversy here. But it should not be misunderstood. What he is essentially saying is that when we look back at history, the number of casualties that were incurred are a sobering thought but the most important question would be "Did we do the right thing at that time?"
Any war has casualties. However, is there a justification for those casualties? Could there be someway to minimize the casualties? Was the war even justified in the 1st place? Could the mistakes be corrected? BTW, Soviet departure was not the only reason the taliban rose. The US provided them with a mass infusion of aid and weaponary in the 80s. For Iraq to be a better place, the US must leave asap.
As such, if we look at the big picture, it is essential that America stays the course. If we look at history, the Soviet's early departure from Afghanistan led to the rise of the Taliban and the consequences that it led to. Of course, it is disturbing that there are so many number of casualties, and I can understand the grief that families of the fallen soldiers feel. This war should never have been fought, but since it has, it must be ended responsibly.
Of course, America's actual motives for the war were and are now still unclear. But the fact is that they are now in Iraq. The reason why the public is so fed up with the war is that they see no clear purpose for the war, and as such are very easily disillusioned with the number of casualties. But at this critical point even if there are no clear motives it is vital that America have done good by at least leaving the country in a better shape that it was previously.
I think what Mr Lee is saying on this issue is right. He is not speaking with regards to whether the Iraq War was justified but what America should do now in its' predicament. Essentially, should America withdraw or stay the course? He was explaining that the British Minister's view of their strategy was to remove Saddam and get out there as soon as possible by installing a new strongman (or another dictator). But America' s vision of creating an entirely new democracy is much more difficult.
I mean which country you know of in the world that has come out from zero to world class standards in 40 odd years with little or close to zero natural resource...
The Americans with all their 'democracy' and 'freedom' till today couldn't get the basics right... like finance, social harmony, domestic security and even healthcare.
200 odd years of history and its still screwed up. What a waste.
He had no choice. The European-based banksters call the tune, and LKY, Bush/Obama, Blair/Brown have to dance to it. The US & the UK dance because they are in hock to the banks (Germans & Swiss) up to their eyeballs, and LKY dances because he has to look out for his little island.
I love LKY, but he is spouting the NWO official line here. He knows that the US motives were not "high-minded," but it isn't his business, so there is no need in him starting trouble.
S'pore has invested heavily in Goldman Sachs, a major shareholder in the Federal Reserve & IMF, so he certainly does not expect the train (US economy) to derail too quickly. On the other hand, the Fed is getting rich, only their slaves are going broke.
Like Bush, LKY is dead wrong on the Iraq war. I like what he did for sg's economy and std of living but supporting this unjust war damaged his foreign policy credibility especially when polls show a majority of singaporeans oppose iraq involvement.
All this idea of Spore being a fishing village are invented for fame.Spore was never a fish village on her independance day. Spore is indeed a rich tinest state, a British fortess that has almost everything than the other 13 states in Malaysia during British rule.
The fishing village are those of the 13 states of Malaysia, not Spore for sure.
He is the founding father of the state of Singapore. A brilliant statesman. Converted a fishing village to one of the strongest economies in South-East Asia. And I think I know what he means by all this will be forgotten. In less than a generation, people have forgotten that Singapore was a fishing village. Bus segregation in US is history even though the people who lived through it are mostly still alive. If you change society, you change how people recall the past.
if it was a fishing village, the British wouldnt have been interested in it. It was thriving kingdom when the British came. Get your face off your secondary school textbooks.
If it was a fishing village, the British still would be interested in it if they believed that it had a vital strategic role in protecting their colonial interest. They did believe that. They where right of course.
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There are several other ports that were being used by the Dutch and the British before Singapore. At that point Singapore was not the most strategic port. Singapore was one of several strategic locations.
Singapore was a fishing village, it was a thriving fishing village because of the port, but still a fishing village.
u been reading the wrong books. The Malay Sultanates have been in trade and political connection with The Ottomans way before the British or the Portuguese arrived. Unfortunately, you can't read beyond your school curriculum text book. go serve your NS with pride.
Whats wrong with being antiwar? Rather be antiwar than pro-war. If u r pro war, than u should be serving in the US military. Don't send the kids of other families to fight for what you support. I'm not antiwar myself but anti silly wars like that of Iraq.
The anti war won with Obama's recent victory, lets hope he keeps his promise on redrawing from Iraq.
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mankind never or will learn from history, everything will repeat itself just like in the historical past, only better judgement and be cautious that allow us to make a better decision and better solution of today's problem and issue in a different time and environment of different interest. since mankind established civilization on earth it has made repeated its history many times, buy only decisions based on its current interest of the moment has not changed.
bgwaceyt 3 hours ago
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bgwaceyt 3 hours ago
Bush's war on Iraq was a terrible mistake and loss of money. The ones that benefitted the most were the Shiite Militants that were being suppressed by secular Saddam Hussein.
666mahound 3 days ago
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""I will make him crawl on his bended knees, and beg for mercy."
-Lee Kuan Yew.
SINGAPOREANS SHOULD AND WILL STILL SEEK JUSTICE FOR ALL ACCOUNTABILITY & WRONG-DOINGS AGAINST YEW EVEN AFTER HE (YEW) RETIRES OR QUITS FROM POLITICS! PAY BACK TIME!
makpuki99 9 months ago
Hey MICHAELWITHSTAND ! You are a worthless Moran , a retard and an ill charactered idiot . You don't deserve to be human , even a cockroach worth a thousand more than you . Why don't you go get yourself eliminated from this world and guys , Stop wasting time debating with MICHAELWITHSTAND , it's pointless .
Multi1186 10 months ago
singapore is not corrupt i m born here n i neo so shut the fuk up. if you dun neo anytin about our country dun talk like you neo!!!
AniMaTheEarth 1 year ago
@AniMaTheEarth Are you talking to MichaelWithstand?
82abhilash 1 year ago
@Michaelwithstand - well, talking about thugs , look at indonesia, anti chinese crime, wow, still love your country? good luck!
rambo12352 1 year ago
@rambo12352 -in singapore Anti-malay!! so How?? any comment?
sani848 2 months ago
Lee Kuan Yew doesn't have the moral authority t speak on ANYTHING. The man is a fascist the only reason who he fooled so many is because he's stuck just governing a city island. Singapore is no democracy. This is as corrupt as any politician can get.
MichaelWithstand 1 year ago
@MichaelWithstand Actually Singapore is one of the least corrupt countries in the world and I am not a big fan of democracy. So there.
82abhilash 1 year ago
@82abhilash that rating is based on foreigners perception while doing business in Singapore. Make no mistake Singapore elite is one of the worst crook in South East Asia. All because they have a dictatorship there. Absolute power corrupt absolutely for THOSE that ENJOY IT.
MichaelWithstand 1 year ago
@MichaelWithstand Well Singpore is not a welfare state. If I where a Singaporean I wouldn't expect the government to take care of me. It is good for doing business. It is through business that people can improve their own welfare by themselves. Use the strengths of Singapore in your favor and you will be ok.
82abhilash 1 year ago
@82abhilash Never said it was. Yea until you somehow hit the nerve of one of its elite and ended up being murdered, jailed, kicked out of job and bankrupted! It's a plain fascist state. NOBODY IS SAFE except lee kuan yew and family and cronies as long as they go along with lee kuan yew.
MichaelWithstand 1 year ago
@MichaelWithstand Murdered? Really? Everything else is seen but murder? It is not as bad as you claim. I know people living there. I have been there myself.
82abhilash 1 year ago
@82abhilash I've been there for 4 years there and I was almost killed. I was starved in their hospital intentionally. The university which I attended sent me a formal letter which was based on lie.
Singapore is relying on sophisticated PR building in other words the facade it's trying to pull is a fake. It's a one party state after all and it's a dangerous place to live in.
MichaelWithstand 1 year ago
@82abhilash all forensics evidence gathered by a team of local(not Singapore origin) concluded that with overwhelming evidence.
Singapore court is a kangaroo court that refused any foreign expert and witnesses in the case of the late Mr. David Widjaja. The police is just an accomplice to murder who would planted false evidence and lied. It refused to present the evidence and give them back to the family of the late Mr. David Widjaja. Only a fool wouldn't conclude that it was a murder
MichaelWithstand 1 year ago
@MichaelWithstand Did you go to NUS? What did you get involved in while at the university?
82abhilash 1 year ago
@82abhilash Umm NTU the same university where the late Mr. David Widjaja was blatantly murdered x-). Now Singapore govt in desperation is forcing Permanent residents aka foreigners to take up Singapore citizenship or lose their work and staying permit. The country has the 2nd largest number of emigration problem, lowest marriage in the world and lowest birth rate in the world. Only nutty people could be happy in that country :-D
MichaelWithstand 1 year ago
@MichaelWithstand My question is what where you involved in? How did you get into trouble. If you do not want to put it in the comment section, you can send me a private message.
82abhilash 1 year ago
@82abhilash and I know better because I was there. My ordeal there and the persecution that came afterward ruined my health. After me there another innocent student was blatantly killed yet justice wasn't given and it was covered up. The police is nothing more than legitimized thugs and the court will always win the rich and powerful.
MichaelWithstand 1 year ago
@82abhilash A society that robs an individual of the product of his effort, or enslaves him, or attempts to limits the freedom of his mind or compels him to act against his own rational judgment, a society that sets up a conflict between its edict and the requirements of man's nature is not strictly speaking, a society, but a mob held together by institutionalized gang rule.
MichaelWithstand 1 year ago
@82abhilash [cont]
Such society destroys all the values of human coexistence and has no possible justification and represents not a source of benefits, but the deadliest threat to man's survival. If men are to live together in a peaceful, productive, rational society and deal with one another to mutual benefit, they must accept the basic social principle without which no moral or civilized society is possible: the principle of individual rights.(Anonymous)
MichaelWithstand 1 year ago
HELLO - this wendyneo have posted so many anti PAP videos mainly because she had been JAILED for disrespect of the judiciary . Moreover , she boasted on her sites that she had dual citizenship of AUSTRALIAN and SINGAPOREAN. Not only that , she even challenge the authority to catch her , so basically, she is going nuts. She thought she had champion for the rights of singaporean but actually she is the lacky of the opposition or you can call running DOG . She is a rambo , so cocky, arrogant, &suck
rambo12352 1 year ago
TATS Y I LOVE SINGAPORE!!!
AniMaTheEarth 1 year ago
What is behind the scene of America has been committing in Muslim countries?The answer are many ways which are based on the wants of Super Power. I always cry inside when I think about the plight of American people who are ignored by their satanic government because this country is controlled by the LUCIFER.
orangkata 1 year ago
Wish our leaders were like Mr. Lee Kuan Yew...
EsotericDesi 2 years ago 2
LKY is last on the list when it comes to what makes a dictator. How can this founding father be one? I'm actually confused about this; just because someone was PM for 40 years doesn't make him a dictator.
PenaltyKillah 2 years ago 5
@PenaltyKillah making your people fear to challenge you makes you a dictator. throwing your political enemies into jail and bankrupting them makes you a dictator too. i'm singaporean too =)
firdaus125 2 months ago
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LKY is a selfish dictator who only cares about himself. Temasek has gone into deep shit because he put the smartest shithead heading temasek.
STUPID LKY
Malaysia2009Boleh 2 years ago
Looks like somebody is jealous. And also about to get blocked.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Yawn. Old opinions.
PenaltyKillah 2 years ago
Lol, if you are a singaporean and if your comment got reported to the police, you can be jailed for more then 6 months.
zenniz1992 2 years ago
Yes, the government runs the show there and they can be draconian at times.
82abhilash 2 years ago
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@Malaysia2009Boleh typical malaysia comment
btan1994 1 year ago
As a last note, when we look back at WW2, do we agree that the right thing was done in defeating the Third Reich despite the enormous number of casualties incurred?
imaginethedream 2 years ago
Let me put it this way. We who live in the future of the US victory in WW2 have the luxury to reflect on better ways of handling the situation than our ancestors did. But they did not have the kind of luxury that we do now and we would not have it too had they not won the war for us. If you remember that you will realize that it is the wrong question to ask. Since they afforded us this luxury, we can make sure that we will not repeat their mistakes. Let our children learn from ours.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Hi 82abhilash, I understand your point. But as I pointed out in my first post, Mr Lee is not speaking with regards as to whether the Iraq War was justified but what America should do now. As such, it is not about reflecting on the legality and on hindsight whether the Iraq War was correct. I believe my question is not wrong as the relevant thing America should be asking itself is, now we are in this predicament, what should we do about it? This is the most urgent and pertinent question to them.
imaginethedream 2 years ago
Of course, the question about how we could have handled the situation different is important. It must be answered in the future. But in the midst of war, the urgent question must be how to end the war responsibly such that we leave it a safer and better place. I would think that the question of the effectiveness of the appeasement policy on hindsight would not be on the immediate list of priorities that Churchill would be concerned about in the heat of conflict.
imaginethedream 2 years ago
Sorry for my mistake. My question was just demonstrating the principle that leaders should ask themselves what is the right thing they should do at this point in time, and as such it would flow naturally to the question of how to end the war responsibly. I hope this clarifies my comments.
imaginethedream 2 years ago
How to end a war responsibly? End it in such a way that your enemy is no more. That a war between both factions have not only become unthinkable, but now you are allies with your former enemy, colleges that look out for one another. Through your web of interdependency all animosities of the past will slowly dissolve, giving way to eternal peace. That is the way to responsibly end a war.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Problem was that this iraqi insurgency was never an enemy of the us in the 1st place. Nor was saddam hussein. The civil was between both factions did not even breakout B4 the war had started. The responsible way to end the war is to leave asap.
mattlim76 2 years ago
That won't be responsible at this point. That would be cowardly. You cause a problem and do not even have the balls to fix it?
82abhilash 2 years ago
The problem was caused WHEN the US invaded Iraq. Read the works of foreign policy analysts. Once the US leaves Iraq, it is largely probable than the country itself will split into 3 as part of the reflection of their 3 sects (sunni, shiite, kurd). And how do we know iraq will turn to chaos once the us leaves? These neo cons were the same guys who thought invading iraq would be easy, a cakewalk or slamdunk. If we cant trust them in the past, how do we trust them now?
mattlim76 2 years ago
They are not in power now.
82abhilash 2 years ago
But many of them remain influential in the iraq and afghanistan wars. Dick Cheney is back and unfortunately many Americans are dumb enuough to buy his criticisms. Some remain as US generals and not as politicians. When a general tells a country that more troops r needed, that is another way of saying we are losing this war. LKY has done a lot for sg and cannot be discredited. Unfortunately, he was and is dead wrong on iraq and polls show that 70% of singaporeans opposed the war and bush.
mattlim76 2 years ago
You do not decide what is right or wrong by majority vote. It will be extremely irresponsible to abandon Iraq or Afghanistan. It was done once with disastrous consequences. Don't worry. Things will be fine.
82abhilash 2 years ago
All facts point to iraq and afghanistan being significant consequences if the us stays for too long. Singaporeans have a right to tell their govt to get the hell outta iraq. YOU as an American do not. Taliban insurgency is up NOT down. Iraq just had a huge bombing last week. When was it done with disastrous consequence? Things will be fine ONLY when intelligent anti war politicians take control of this war. We should stay out of this debate if that happens.
mattlim76 2 years ago
You speak with the voice of a coward.
82abhilash 2 years ago
More cowardly to attack innocent civilians in an Afghan hospital than to pull out. Yes, that is going on in Afghanistan NOW by none other than US troops. More cowardly to bang into homes at 11pm at night and telling Iraqis to get down on their knees. The US military is only good for bullying countries that r weak and powerless. Trying picking on another country their size. Just cuz u supported the iraq war doesnt mean u have the right of using lky's flawed argument.
mattlim76 2 years ago
Even more Iraqis will die if the US leaves. Besides now that they created the mess, they have to fix it. I find cowardice in irresponsibility too.
82abhilash 2 years ago
I've heard that argument many times. You made numerous valid points but my problem is the neo cons who believe the US should open up permanent military bases in the heart of the muslim world, which led them to be attacked on 9/11. The problem is i dont know if more iraqis will die if the US leaves. Maybe this is a problem that only the iraqis can resolve. Lee was 1 who thought the US could come home by 05. I dont want his advice on Iraq. If the us could sincerely fix it, i'd support it.
mattlim76 2 years ago
The problem will get fixed and people all over the world will contribute in their own special way. Americans are just the most visible part of the whole operation. They are not very competent. Which is why competent people will back fill them. They are as a matter of fact. World peace is that important. It must be.
82abhilash 2 years ago
We all wish the problem will get fixed. However, Afghanistan is proving to be more difficult than Iraq or Vietnam. Last thing we want is the war to span longer than it needs to be like iraq. Weeks turns to months to years to a decade and so forth. From 1000 troops dead to 4000 to maybe more that were unreported. The world is also becoming impatient and yes, Americans DID take their eye off the ball in Afganistan. You r right. World peace and peace in the region MUST be worked for.
mattlim76 2 years ago
I do not think Afghanistan can be compared to Vietnam. The US lost more than 50,000 troops there.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Ppl like John Kerry r not comparing the deaths to Vietnam but the conditions and reasons of Afghanistan today r similar to those back then. Ppl like us r not calling of a full pullout but a reevaluation and no more additional troops. In Vietnam, the goal was also to bring democracy, freedoms, and all that neo con lies there. Watch Robert McNamara the fog of war.
mattlim76 2 years ago
We live in better times. It is better because people learn from bad experiences and are consequently more vigilant. Social reform takes time, effort and loads of patience. Since there is no other option, it will be.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Theodore Roosevelt was also rite when he stated Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far. On the other, u speak like an idiot who knows NOTHING about iraq, its history, the different sects, or even about Afghanistan. Here is another quote for u. Afghanistan is the country superpowers go and die. Think abou that and do ur research as to why that quote is important.
mattlim76 2 years ago
Let us hope the super powers have learnt something by now. I do not think the victory in Iraq or Afghanistan can be defined militarily let alone achieved military. Military is just one component to a social reform process that must be carried out.
82abhilash 2 years ago
I couldnt agree more on ur first part and apologize for my harsh comment. Right u are. And thats my problem when some general just says we need more troops. Maybe the key to winning afghanistan is to continue this mission but with fewer troops focusing on achievable realistic results. We need the 3DS of defence, diplomacy, and development to win in Afghanistan. Afghans need to see progress in order to have renewed confidence in Nato and their govt. Pure military action will not achieve victory.
mattlim76 2 years ago
I do not think that the news gives the whole picture at all. Lots of things are happening behind the scenes. There are indications. Which is why I am hopeful. But it will be an expensive victory. Both in terms of money and lives.
82abhilash 2 years ago
I take my news from the internet. No Fox or NBC. Will the US media report on their troops attacking Afghan hospitals? I'm not saying these things at random but because of my research on Afghanistan. 2 years ago the taliban controlled 34 districts and its approx 134 now. More naive kids r paid to throw bombs at soldiers. Taliban recruitment is at higher than prior to 9/11 because of innocent casualties and poppy growth is their source. Its afghanistan the us should worry about now.
mattlim76 2 years ago
Well Taliban once did control almost the whole country. Things do not always improve in a linear manner.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Right on the 1st part. Do u think women's rights will improve when the US leaves someday? Ask any liberal feminist. The women of afghanistan r going to be screwed either way. Nor will Afghanistan be some peace loving liberal democracy like Switzerland. The taliban is integrated into afghanistan and will be present once nato leaves. Its best for us to ensure afghanistan remains stable and not a terrorist haven. Karzai is another problem i havent dealt with and his govt is corrupt to the max.
mattlim76 2 years ago
This is all speculation. Add mine to yours. The foreign troops will dwindle in number and withdraw to their barracks. I do not think they are ever going to leave.
82abhilash 2 years ago
They better have plans to leave. Afghanistan and Iraq r not Germany. Both countries have a backwards culture in terms of social values and crazy militants out to kill Americans. Bush clearly didnt learn from Vietnam. The Soviets didnt learn from the British, twice. Independent reports have stated that Afghanistan could take 100 years for a potential democracy. I dont think countries involve have that kind of patience. Not even Americans.
mattlim76 2 years ago
If a general is calling for more troops, it means the war is about to be lost. No general is gonna ask for fewer troops. Unlike rational ppl, they believe a war can only be won by military might. Problem is many soldiers, the US in particular, r seeing their tours extended more than b4. This causes huge stress that the general doesnt address.. If we dont rationally think in this mission, NATO armies will be broken prior to any attempts to secure victory. We need fewer troops and better plans.
mattlim76 2 years ago
I do not think we lay people must be discussing strategy.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Agreed. Less talk of sending more troops and more discussion on strategy. Only since Obama came into office, the talk of strategy begun. For 8 years, it has been kill kill kill while taking the ball off on Afghanistan.
mattlim76 2 years ago
They won't be so crude no more hopefully.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Americans are generally impatient people. While Afghans are extremely patient. But one things I know about Americans is that in their efforts to deal with their enemies, they try to understand them and in doing so begin to take on their characteristics. That is a consistent pattern throughout history. Afghans won't be backward by them time some people are through with them.
82abhilash 2 years ago
8 years? Yeah, they have every right to be impatient. Not under bush they didnt. Bush didnt even know what were sunni or shiites b4 invading iraq. His exact quote" I thought they were all Muslims." Thats stupid, annoying, and ignorant. Only now has America understood Afghanistan, its history, and the importance of the taliban. We still have more work to do. There r ex soviet generals dying to talk to the US and vice versa. Gotta reach out for their advice. Afghanistan wont be "westernize".
mattlim76 2 years ago 4
Afghanistan may take fifty or even a hundred years. Maybe it won't westernize, but it can modernize.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Maybe like an Iran but not like a netherlands. Even the US is arguably not a civilized culture. They elected bush twice, which proves my point lol.
mattlim76 2 years ago
Not like Iran or Netherlands. Afghanistan will become a modern version of itself.
82abhilash 2 years ago
I do not think you need to apologize. This is an emotionally charged topic. Lot of innocent people are being killed on both sides and no one knows what the end will look like.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Of course, this leads me to Mr Lee's last point about the obsession with casualties. In any war, there would be casualties. This is undeniable. And I understand that his point about "all these will be forgotten" has caused some controversy here. But it should not be misunderstood. What he is essentially saying is that when we look back at history, the number of casualties that were incurred are a sobering thought but the most important question would be "Did we do the right thing at that time?"
imaginethedream 2 years ago
Any war has casualties. However, is there a justification for those casualties? Could there be someway to minimize the casualties? Was the war even justified in the 1st place? Could the mistakes be corrected? BTW, Soviet departure was not the only reason the taliban rose. The US provided them with a mass infusion of aid and weaponary in the 80s. For Iraq to be a better place, the US must leave asap.
mattlim76 2 years ago
As such, if we look at the big picture, it is essential that America stays the course. If we look at history, the Soviet's early departure from Afghanistan led to the rise of the Taliban and the consequences that it led to. Of course, it is disturbing that there are so many number of casualties, and I can understand the grief that families of the fallen soldiers feel. This war should never have been fought, but since it has, it must be ended responsibly.
imaginethedream 2 years ago
Of course, America's actual motives for the war were and are now still unclear. But the fact is that they are now in Iraq. The reason why the public is so fed up with the war is that they see no clear purpose for the war, and as such are very easily disillusioned with the number of casualties. But at this critical point even if there are no clear motives it is vital that America have done good by at least leaving the country in a better shape that it was previously.
imaginethedream 2 years ago
I think what Mr Lee is saying on this issue is right. He is not speaking with regards to whether the Iraq War was justified but what America should do now in its' predicament. Essentially, should America withdraw or stay the course? He was explaining that the British Minister's view of their strategy was to remove Saddam and get out there as soon as possible by installing a new strongman (or another dictator). But America' s vision of creating an entirely new democracy is much more difficult.
imaginethedream 2 years ago
He's got it right on how a country should be.
I mean which country you know of in the world that has come out from zero to world class standards in 40 odd years with little or close to zero natural resource...
The Americans with all their 'democracy' and 'freedom' till today couldn't get the basics right... like finance, social harmony, domestic security and even healthcare.
200 odd years of history and its still screwed up. What a waste.
goodjmate 2 years ago 4
Comment removed
mattlim76 2 years ago
I disgree, ..Singapore did not start from zero in 40 odds year. Singapore inherit a significant amount of wealth before independance.
Without America, Singapore is nothing...worthless country.
Porepura 2 years ago
@Porepura how exactly? wth...
btan1994 1 year ago
He had no choice. The European-based banksters call the tune, and LKY, Bush/Obama, Blair/Brown have to dance to it. The US & the UK dance because they are in hock to the banks (Germans & Swiss) up to their eyeballs, and LKY dances because he has to look out for his little island.
xerosisonek 2 years ago
I love LKY, but he is spouting the NWO official line here. He knows that the US motives were not "high-minded," but it isn't his business, so there is no need in him starting trouble.
S'pore has invested heavily in Goldman Sachs, a major shareholder in the Federal Reserve & IMF, so he certainly does not expect the train (US economy) to derail too quickly. On the other hand, the Fed is getting rich, only their slaves are going broke.
xerosisonek 2 years ago
Like Bush, LKY is dead wrong on the Iraq war. I like what he did for sg's economy and std of living but supporting this unjust war damaged his foreign policy credibility especially when polls show a majority of singaporeans oppose iraq involvement.
mattlim76 2 years ago
Smart man.
mkfk1 2 years ago
I just love Lee even if I'm not Singaporean. Some of my best memories are from there and Singapore is such a great place.
hanna0viking 2 years ago
All this idea of Spore being a fishing village are invented for fame.Spore was never a fish village on her independance day. Spore is indeed a rich tinest state, a British fortess that has almost everything than the other 13 states in Malaysia during British rule.
The fishing village are those of the 13 states of Malaysia, not Spore for sure.
Greed drive them to depart.
pelangi20 2 years ago
who is this guy? i think he doesn't really know much about politics and you can tell he blabbers all these nonsense.
not a very forward looking man.
"all these will be forgotten?!"
He should go back to pluck cottons in the field!
FrozenIdent 3 years ago
He is the founding father of the state of Singapore. A brilliant statesman. Converted a fishing village to one of the strongest economies in South-East Asia. And I think I know what he means by all this will be forgotten. In less than a generation, people have forgotten that Singapore was a fishing village. Bus segregation in US is history even though the people who lived through it are mostly still alive. If you change society, you change how people recall the past.
82abhilash 3 years ago
if it was a fishing village, the British wouldnt have been interested in it. It was thriving kingdom when the British came. Get your face off your secondary school textbooks.
maosytongue 3 years ago 12
If it was a fishing village, the British still would be interested in it if they believed that it had a vital strategic role in protecting their colonial interest. They did believe that. They where right of course.
82abhilash 3 years ago
British exploited spore's strategic location. Spore's is the most strategic location in southeast Asia.
andysiska 3 years ago 9
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There are several other ports that were being used by the Dutch and the British before Singapore. At that point Singapore was not the most strategic port. Singapore was one of several strategic locations.
Singapore was a fishing village, it was a thriving fishing village because of the port, but still a fishing village.
Kin94285 2 years ago
hahahaha, lol this is such a bloody nice comment :P i agree with you 100%
Cheers mate ...
ajaaronjoe 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
hahah thriving kingdom? god... u need to read.
zonicbonic 2 years ago
u been reading the wrong books. The Malay Sultanates have been in trade and political connection with The Ottomans way before the British or the Portuguese arrived. Unfortunately, you can't read beyond your school curriculum text book. go serve your NS with pride.
maosytongue 2 years ago 12
you sounds sooo stupid.
zoul830sg 3 years ago 3
"all these will be forgotten" meant the casualty figures.
what will remain is the animosity and hatred.
ntuman 2 years ago
Whats wrong with being antiwar? Rather be antiwar than pro-war. If u r pro war, than u should be serving in the US military. Don't send the kids of other families to fight for what you support. I'm not antiwar myself but anti silly wars like that of Iraq.
The anti war won with Obama's recent victory, lets hope he keeps his promise on redrawing from Iraq.
chrish767 3 years ago 4
Hear ye, hear ye..LKY sucking up to America. Laughable.
maosytongue 3 years ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hear ye, hear ye. maosytongue tonguing the collective arseholes of the antiwar left. Laughable.
sklanger 3 years ago
hear ye, hear ye, sklanger sucking up LKY's dong. LOL
maosytongue 3 years ago 3