Part 1: I am here for many reasons. I comment your channel because to your credit you are one to few Christian places that has not banned me yet. Indeed I have spoken with many Christians and members of other religions. I'm not a troll in that I have no desire to disrupt. I'm looking for a rational discussion between atheist and Christian. I'm honestly not here to pimp my stuff but if you want you can see the conversations at BelieverInterviews.
4. So while the saying about a grain of wheat dying may have some "spiritual" significance the biology is all wrong. Then there is the problem of slavery. Jesus never said a word against slavery. Presuming Jesus knew germ theory he could of saved a whole lot of lives by telling us about it. In fact none of Jesus' teachings indicate a supernatural understanding of anything.
@SamWiseGingy I don't understand what you are saying about 'consider the lilies?' As for the biology, jesus didn't come to give biology lessons, i don't think people would have understood anything he was talking about. Have you read the gospels? Jesus came to save everyone, and spent his whole life healing others.
@94Harrymitchell Every species is locked into a desperate struggle to stave off extinction. That is why natural selection is such a powerful mechanism in biology. Jesus tells us that his god takes care of the flowers and birds. The truth is that nature is indifferent to death and suffering, especially of the birds and flowers. (Matthew 6: 25-34.)
@94Harrymitchell If you study biology you don't see a god taking care of anything. You see natural processes that are always indifferent and often cruel. There is no evidence of a personal care taker in nature.
@94Harrymitchell The point is that there is no evidence that the Jesus is the eternal word as described in the first chapter of John. There is nothing in the teaching of Jesus that would suggest the Jesus had any extraordinary understanding of anything. If someone said that Albert Einstein was divine because of intellectual brilliance they would have a better case than saying Jesus was divine because of the brilliance of his teachings.
@SamWiseGingy Have you read it? After reading it i wouldn't doubt that jesus had 'extraordinary understanding' and more. Also, i don't believe jesus is Lord because he was smart....
@94Harrymitchell I have read it many times. Why do you presume that I am ignorant of your beliefs just because I don't share them? If Jesus was the "Word made flesh" as the Bible describes he would smart, in fact he would be brilliant beyond compare. The New Testament teachings as they come to us lack any brilliance in teaching that can be verified by any objective means.There is no knowledge expressed in the New Testament that was not common knowledge in its day.
Jesus said to Nicodemus, the Pharisee....John 3:12 "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?"
@SamWiseGingy As for demonstrating supernatural understanding....what do you mean? Of course his teachings don't indicate a supernatural understanding, he is not teaching us how to be supernatural? If you haven't, read the four gospels for an understanding of what he taught. He never said a word against slavery? Do you think he spent his whole life talking about what he was against? I don't think that because it is not recorded we can say that jesus wanted slavery.
3. Then you also have to consider that some of what Jesus says doesn't make any sense. "Consider the lilies" would be an excellent example. Life is a struggle for nearly all species everywhere. Doubt me, read Thomas Malthus on Populations (just look at Wikipedia, that's what I did tonight.) Then there is the saying "unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." John 12:24
2. We really have no way of knowing what the real Jesus taught and did, presuming there ever was a real Jesus. The only things we know about Jesus is what the early Church told us about Jesus. We have no way of verifying their accounts. Supernatural events are difficult to prove in the present, so proving that supernatural events that happened 2000 years ago is very problematic.
@SamWiseGingy The best evidence available for the existence of Jesus is in the bible, and no this is not begging the question of the bibles trustworthiness - it is not a bunch of legends written by people eventually put into a book. These are what people saw or thought they saw - you just need to read it to realise they are not trying to tell a story. Look at the dead sea scrolls of you think it is a passed on legend. However look into josephus on jesus or didashe for other sources
I love how they are able to laugh at these things. My husband and I are super newlyweds so we tend to over analyze our differences. It's comforting to see that it gets humorous :-).
@trevor8930 i'd say give them a portion of your tithe. pay them back for all the ways that they've ministered to you and help them bless more people with your money.
I've had numerous fruitless conversations with samwisegingy. He's just a guy looking to cause a stir and get a response. As a christian, you shouldn't even bother. Let him figure it out.
I have been watching marshill for almost a year now, i consider marshill to be my church dispite being and 3 hour drive away and not being able to attend the church in person or be invovled in commuity. whats the best way to be invovled with the church from a distance?
@trevor8930 Since it's hard to for you to go every week I would maybe try to find what the church does as a community and attend those things :). Like if they do rallys or get to gethers those things, it's always good to know the church community :).
@SamWiseGingy He can't teach on something he doesn't know anything about. Not that his marriage doesn't have problems, but they've been through alot, and worked through a lot. He's being open about his marriage which a pastor should be.
@SamWiseGingy Your comment is still there, I can see it. I meant what I said, he uses his marriage as an example because preachers should open about those kinds of things and it doesn't mean his marriage is perfect just that they've been through a lot and still are they are sharing what God has taught them. It's his job to show his congregation how God wants a marriage, again that doesn't mean they are perfect, they show their struggles but they are showing that with God a marriage will work.
@flossybutt25 But what you think your "preacher" knows anything more about marriage than anyone else and what you think that the solutions to life's difficulty are found in the scriptures? Please tell me of one example of a healthy marriage in the scriptures. I can think of none. Scripture teaches patriarchy and there is no evidence that people who live in patriarchal cultures are happier and healthier.
@SamWiseGingy I never said he knew everything about marriage. I'm sure there are other people who know more, he is simply sharing what God has told him to share, in life we are always learning, we all have room to grow. Mary and Joesph are a perfect example. Joesph could have left Mary but he put his faith and trust in the Lord and were happy. MD never said that marriage is always happy and healthy, but it's possible to make it that way with God. That's his point.With God all things are possible
Joesph and Mary are a prototype of marriage? You're nuts. The question is does patriarchy make people happy and healthy? MD preaches, teaches, and I presume writes that patriarchy is what makes a happy marriage. What is your/his evidence for that? If "all things are possible" for your god why are children still dying of malaria and adults still dying of cancer?
@SamWiseGingy Because of SIN. If people would understand the "fall of man" when Adam and Eve sinned then people wouldn't ask "how could God let this happen?" We did this to ourselves, God is a God of love. He has put the burden on thousands of peoples heart to help those in need, that's why we have missionary's, and doctors, and people who help those dying of cancer or starvation. We have a choice not to sin, you yourself sin. Sin is what has mads God's creation deteriorate. Not Him.
@flossybutt25 Gee if it hadn't been for Adam and Eve then your god might have to demonstrate his power and love. But your mythology provides your god an air tight alibi doesn't it.
@SamWiseGingy Don't mock my faith. I have not once disrespected you and your views. I've simply answered your questions to the best of my ability. I am not a scholar and don't claim to be. Once your opposing viewer looses disrespect for you because of your own disrespect then you loose the argument. My God demonstrates His love for me everyday. I don't need someone to prove that to me. I respect your view, you need to respect mine. I love God and nothing you say will make me doubt Him.
Persons deserve respect. Ideas deserve respect only if they are true. False ideas should be rejected.
If you consider subjecting your religion/faith to reasoned inquiry then indeed I am mocking your faith. If you refuse to shine the light of reason on your faith then you have no way of knowing whether or not your faith is true and neither do I.
@SamWiseGingy Mill must be your idol. Every side has some truth, but if we keep denying the opposing side just because YOU don't see any truth in it then truth will continue to be suppressed. I see God as truth I see Him in everything. That doesn't mean I don't understand other peoples opinion on religion, but God is where I found my truth. God doesn't have to "prove" Himself to us but He does and He has to me. I could tell you story after story Sir, but only you can decide what you believe.
@flossybutt25 Please explain "mill must by your idol."
Every side may have some truth, but that doesn't mean every argument is true. We/humanity is much better off when we use reason to determine which arguments are true and which arguments are false. I am asking for your reasons and you are accusing me of suppressing the truth.
Please tell me how "God has proven himself" to you.
@flossybutt25 No one decides what is true or false. We may have our opinion of what is true or false but nothing is true simply because we believe it. I may think pink unicorns are real, but that has little bearing on their reality, except as a fantasy in my head.
@SamWiseGingy The way I show my faith in Him is through my actions. No, I'm not perfect in any way but I try to live a life that shows my love for Him. Not only because He wants me to but because I want to as well.
And no I'm not one of those people who believe good works get you to Heaven, that's not what I mean. Just to clarify.
@SamWiseGingy Because I've seen miracles within my own family, myself, and in the world. Some of them are personal and I'd like to keep to myself but my grandfather was diagnosed with Colon cancer when I was in 4th grade. He went in for another test and it was completely gone. He had a brain aneurysm just last year, again he went in for another test and it was gone. When he was 17 there was an accident and he drove off a cliff, not a ditch a steep cliff and came out of there with no scratches.
@SamWiseGingy Some might say that those could happen to anyone, but to the same person?
I've dealt with a lot of difficult things, to me personally, and when I had no one God was there. He healed my heart in ways no science or human being could do. I found my peace and joy in Christ. He loves me no matter how much I mess up, and He shows me His love everyday. He has blessed me beyond then what I could ask for and saved my life so many times. Literally. If it wasn't for Him I would not be here.
@SamWiseGingy I've seen pains healed, physically aliments disappear, lives saved from danger, and His creation alone is beauty. When I was younger, about 3rd grade, I remember sitting in church on Mother's day. I prayed so hard for my mom to be there. She surprised me and showed up, if you knew me and hers relationship you'd understand the importance of that, and I could feel God. It was like He was holding me, He answered my prayer that meant everything to me. To you it may not be big but to me
@SamWiseGingy It meant everything. He healed me a lot that day. And with Him I have been able to forgive my mother for a lot of things, yes I'm still working on it but without Him I would still hate her. I would still be in pain because of her, but I'm not. He set me free. I can't prove that to you, only you can choose that. All I can do is tell you my story and hope you see God's love like I have. Because He loves you. More then we can understand.
@flossybutt25 All things you claim to be evidence of your god are common to all faiths and peoples. So either your is rather promiscuous or people are prone to call the good things in their lives acts of their god. The ancient world is littered with temples to all sorts of gods, some of them "Christian." Those believers were convinced of the reality of their gods the same as you are. You have yet to present any evidence that Christianity is true.
@SamWiseGingy Also, I want to add this out of love. If you live your entire life always searching for evidence on things you can't see your going to be very lonely. We can't see love, trust, loyalty, etc. We can see the actions that go with all those things but we can't actually see them. Are you going to doubt everyone that loves you? No, because you choose to love them back you believe that love is real because you believe in them. It's the same way with God I see His love because I choose to.
@flossybutt25 No, I can see love, truth and beauty just like anyone else. I just don't ascribe any of those things to deity, as you do. Life is really better for those who don't compromise their reason to accommodate their faith.
@flossybutt25 If you were to move out of the USA to another country by choice and could go to any other country you wanted, I think you would most likely pick a country that is more secular than the the USA. Secular cultures tend be happier then religious one. The principle is most likely true for individuals.
@SamWiseGingy Sir that's where you are wrong. I lived a life that didn't have God in it, and I am much happier with Him in my life. You can't say that it is true for individuals. It's not true for me.
@flossybutt25 Just because you are "happier" being a Christian that has nothing to do with whether or not your version or any other version Christianity is true. Why is that you can't provide even one objectively verifiable argument or piece of evidence for your faith?
@SamWiseGingy I never said it was. Your argument is becoming flawed by how you keep changing what I actually say. It is true, to me. I didn't say it was true to you or anyone else. It's true to me. I've given you evidence that I believe is evidence. If you choose not to accept that, then that is fine. Maybe you should try praying? Honestly, ask God for the answers you need. Like I said, I'm not a scholar and I don't have all the answers to give you. I wish I could, but God does :). So. Ask Him.
@flossybutt25 I'm satisfied that your faith is not in any sense justified by reason. Of course you have the option of correcting that perception if you choose.
@SamWiseGingy I'm sorry you feel that way. But God is truth to me. Some things you don't have words for. Just because you don't fully understand something doesn't mean it's not true. I don't live by evidence, I live by faith. That's enough for me. It's not just the good that I'm thankful for, I had to go through a tremendous about of pain to get to the good. It's the bad I'm thankful for as well. God got me through that, that's enough evidence for me. I hope one day you find what you need.
@flossybutt25 You may be quite sure that a deity is personally involved in your life but I am not. What evidence do you have that a supernatural being is doing anything in your life?
@JCojocaru Yes they should. Preachers should be very open about there personal lives, you can do your research in the Bible :).
It's to keep them accountable. Because it is very dangerous for someone to be in that high of authority, anyone who preachers the Word of God or witnesses to someone and tells them something falsely will be punished by God very harshly, (Verse in 2 Tim.)
As a congregation we should be aware of our pastors lives so we can keep him on track because we love him.
@flossybutt25 Being a preacher doesn't give you higher authority. When preachers speak only about themselves and go on and on about stories from their life, the miracles they had a hand in etc, it's more boasting and praising themselves than Christ. A preacher isn't supposed to talk about himself. Show me in the Bible where Jesus talked about himself and when teaching others, spoke of all the miracles he's witnessed etc. He had more right to do it than anyone else, but he didn't.
@JCojocaru Did I say a preacher should go on and on about themselves? No, I didn't. Listen please. They should be OPEN about themselves. There's a big difference, and that is all in the New Testament. Look it up :). Mostly in 2 Tim. and Titus. Powerful stuff. It isn't about "getting to know" the pastor is more about keeping him accountable.
@flossybutt25 I think maybe we're just thinking something different altogether. I'm thinking of how most preachers come and all they talk about is themselves and stories/personal experiences (not testimony, just things to show how Godly they are). Truth is, if someone has a word from God, they have just as much right as a Churches pastor to speak it. Unfortunately the pastors run churches like a government does. Accountability: If someone teaches falsely, CORRECT him in public. Simple as that.
@JCojocaru Yea, I didn't mean the pastor just telling story's about himself I meant the pastor being open about his faults so the church can keep him accountable and call him out openly.
It's sad to see when pastors hide those sins and it eats away at them and it becomes worse just like if anyone keeps a sin hidden, but they are responsible for their congregation they aren't just there to help us, we can help them too :). But yea I think there was just a mis-communication there :).
@SamWiseGingy MD is not the standard for Marriage. The standard for marriage is for husbands to love their wife as Christ love the church and gave himself up for her (Eph 5:25). MD is merely showing an example of how it can be done, passing the message from one brother to another. Hes not perfect and no one should look at him as such. He is not Christ - who is our supreme example
@94Harrymitchell
Part 1: I am here for many reasons. I comment your channel because to your credit you are one to few Christian places that has not banned me yet. Indeed I have spoken with many Christians and members of other religions. I'm not a troll in that I have no desire to disrupt. I'm looking for a rational discussion between atheist and Christian. I'm honestly not here to pimp my stuff but if you want you can see the conversations at BelieverInterviews.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy sweet, ill check it out
94Harrymitchell 1 month ago
@94Harrymitchell
4. So while the saying about a grain of wheat dying may have some "spiritual" significance the biology is all wrong. Then there is the problem of slavery. Jesus never said a word against slavery. Presuming Jesus knew germ theory he could of saved a whole lot of lives by telling us about it. In fact none of Jesus' teachings indicate a supernatural understanding of anything.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy I don't understand what you are saying about 'consider the lilies?' As for the biology, jesus didn't come to give biology lessons, i don't think people would have understood anything he was talking about. Have you read the gospels? Jesus came to save everyone, and spent his whole life healing others.
94Harrymitchell 1 month ago
@94Harrymitchell Every species is locked into a desperate struggle to stave off extinction. That is why natural selection is such a powerful mechanism in biology. Jesus tells us that his god takes care of the flowers and birds. The truth is that nature is indifferent to death and suffering, especially of the birds and flowers. (Matthew 6: 25-34.)
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy He was using that as an example..Another reading would be that yes, God takes car of all things, as he designed them.
94Harrymitchell 1 month ago
@94Harrymitchell If you study biology you don't see a god taking care of anything. You see natural processes that are always indifferent and often cruel. There is no evidence of a personal care taker in nature.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago 2
@SamWiseGingy What do you think if God stopped every bird and flower from dying?
94Harrymitchell 1 month ago
@94Harrymitchell The point is that there is no evidence that the Jesus is the eternal word as described in the first chapter of John. There is nothing in the teaching of Jesus that would suggest the Jesus had any extraordinary understanding of anything. If someone said that Albert Einstein was divine because of intellectual brilliance they would have a better case than saying Jesus was divine because of the brilliance of his teachings.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy Have you read it? After reading it i wouldn't doubt that jesus had 'extraordinary understanding' and more. Also, i don't believe jesus is Lord because he was smart....
94Harrymitchell 1 month ago
@94Harrymitchell I have read it many times. Why do you presume that I am ignorant of your beliefs just because I don't share them? If Jesus was the "Word made flesh" as the Bible describes he would smart, in fact he would be brilliant beyond compare. The New Testament teachings as they come to us lack any brilliance in teaching that can be verified by any objective means.There is no knowledge expressed in the New Testament that was not common knowledge in its day.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy
Jesus said to Nicodemus, the Pharisee....John 3:12 "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?"
MrsLkhrt 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy As for demonstrating supernatural understanding....what do you mean? Of course his teachings don't indicate a supernatural understanding, he is not teaching us how to be supernatural? If you haven't, read the four gospels for an understanding of what he taught. He never said a word against slavery? Do you think he spent his whole life talking about what he was against? I don't think that because it is not recorded we can say that jesus wanted slavery.
94Harrymitchell 1 month ago
@94Harrymitchell
3. Then you also have to consider that some of what Jesus says doesn't make any sense. "Consider the lilies" would be an excellent example. Life is a struggle for nearly all species everywhere. Doubt me, read Thomas Malthus on Populations (just look at Wikipedia, that's what I did tonight.) Then there is the saying "unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." John 12:24
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@94Harrymitchell
2. We really have no way of knowing what the real Jesus taught and did, presuming there ever was a real Jesus. The only things we know about Jesus is what the early Church told us about Jesus. We have no way of verifying their accounts. Supernatural events are difficult to prove in the present, so proving that supernatural events that happened 2000 years ago is very problematic.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy The best evidence available for the existence of Jesus is in the bible, and no this is not begging the question of the bibles trustworthiness - it is not a bunch of legends written by people eventually put into a book. These are what people saw or thought they saw - you just need to read it to realise they are not trying to tell a story. Look at the dead sea scrolls of you think it is a passed on legend. However look into josephus on jesus or didashe for other sources
94Harrymitchell 1 month ago
I love how they are able to laugh at these things. My husband and I are super newlyweds so we tend to over analyze our differences. It's comforting to see that it gets humorous :-).
alwaysashley2012 1 month ago
amusing
archgabriel54 1 month ago
Beautiful video.
:)
WorldRenegadeChurch 1 month ago
these two are awkward :O
thelaw986 1 month ago
Pastor Driscoll looks and laughs like Ronnie from jersey shore here.
NChmil 1 month ago
@trevor8930 i'd say give them a portion of your tithe. pay them back for all the ways that they've ministered to you and help them bless more people with your money.
asiankid125 1 month ago
i feel awkward for them...
vikakond 1 month ago
I've had numerous fruitless conversations with samwisegingy. He's just a guy looking to cause a stir and get a response. As a christian, you shouldn't even bother. Let him figure it out.
MrSB1274 1 month ago
I have been watching marshill for almost a year now, i consider marshill to be my church dispite being and 3 hour drive away and not being able to attend the church in person or be invovled in commuity. whats the best way to be invovled with the church from a distance?
trevor8930 1 month ago
@trevor8930 The best way to be involved in a church 3 hours away is to travel those 3 hours..
Kraissy144 1 month ago
@Kraissy144 good advice, I plan to do so, but I cant do that every week.
trevor8930 1 month ago
@trevor8930 Since it's hard to for you to go every week I would maybe try to find what the church does as a community and attend those things :). Like if they do rallys or get to gethers those things, it's always good to know the church community :).
flossybutt25 1 month ago
i love these two!!
rosswilson2010 1 month ago
btw thats his wife is anyone was wondering why he had his hand on her
abu5alaf91 1 month ago
That laughter between them is precious.
oxygencube 1 month ago
Your guys' laughter is so contagious.
TheAaronLackey 1 month ago 27
Why is it that the Driscoll marriage is the example marriage for believers? Why is that MD is an authority on marriage?
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
Comment removed
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy He can't teach on something he doesn't know anything about. Not that his marriage doesn't have problems, but they've been through alot, and worked through a lot. He's being open about his marriage which a pastor should be.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 Apparently my comment was removed. This is not the place, presuming there is a place to question the authority of MD.
Also I don't think your comment says what you mean, would you please clarify.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy Your comment is still there, I can see it. I meant what I said, he uses his marriage as an example because preachers should open about those kinds of things and it doesn't mean his marriage is perfect just that they've been through a lot and still are they are sharing what God has taught them. It's his job to show his congregation how God wants a marriage, again that doesn't mean they are perfect, they show their struggles but they are showing that with God a marriage will work.
flossybutt25 1 month ago 13
@flossybutt25 But what you think your "preacher" knows anything more about marriage than anyone else and what you think that the solutions to life's difficulty are found in the scriptures? Please tell me of one example of a healthy marriage in the scriptures. I can think of none. Scripture teaches patriarchy and there is no evidence that people who live in patriarchal cultures are happier and healthier.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy I never said he knew everything about marriage. I'm sure there are other people who know more, he is simply sharing what God has told him to share, in life we are always learning, we all have room to grow. Mary and Joesph are a perfect example. Joesph could have left Mary but he put his faith and trust in the Lord and were happy. MD never said that marriage is always happy and healthy, but it's possible to make it that way with God. That's his point.With God all things are possible
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25
Joesph and Mary are a prototype of marriage? You're nuts. The question is does patriarchy make people happy and healthy? MD preaches, teaches, and I presume writes that patriarchy is what makes a happy marriage. What is your/his evidence for that? If "all things are possible" for your god why are children still dying of malaria and adults still dying of cancer?
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy Because of SIN. If people would understand the "fall of man" when Adam and Eve sinned then people wouldn't ask "how could God let this happen?" We did this to ourselves, God is a God of love. He has put the burden on thousands of peoples heart to help those in need, that's why we have missionary's, and doctors, and people who help those dying of cancer or starvation. We have a choice not to sin, you yourself sin. Sin is what has mads God's creation deteriorate. Not Him.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 Gee if it hadn't been for Adam and Eve then your god might have to demonstrate his power and love. But your mythology provides your god an air tight alibi doesn't it.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy Don't mock my faith. I have not once disrespected you and your views. I've simply answered your questions to the best of my ability. I am not a scholar and don't claim to be. Once your opposing viewer looses disrespect for you because of your own disrespect then you loose the argument. My God demonstrates His love for me everyday. I don't need someone to prove that to me. I respect your view, you need to respect mine. I love God and nothing you say will make me doubt Him.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25
Persons deserve respect. Ideas deserve respect only if they are true. False ideas should be rejected.
If you consider subjecting your religion/faith to reasoned inquiry then indeed I am mocking your faith. If you refuse to shine the light of reason on your faith then you have no way of knowing whether or not your faith is true and neither do I.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy Mill must be your idol. Every side has some truth, but if we keep denying the opposing side just because YOU don't see any truth in it then truth will continue to be suppressed. I see God as truth I see Him in everything. That doesn't mean I don't understand other peoples opinion on religion, but God is where I found my truth. God doesn't have to "prove" Himself to us but He does and He has to me. I could tell you story after story Sir, but only you can decide what you believe.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 Please explain "mill must by your idol."
Every side may have some truth, but that doesn't mean every argument is true. We/humanity is much better off when we use reason to determine which arguments are true and which arguments are false. I am asking for your reasons and you are accusing me of suppressing the truth.
Please tell me how "God has proven himself" to you.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 No one decides what is true or false. We may have our opinion of what is true or false but nothing is true simply because we believe it. I may think pink unicorns are real, but that has little bearing on their reality, except as a fantasy in my head.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy The way I show my faith in Him is through my actions. No, I'm not perfect in any way but I try to live a life that shows my love for Him. Not only because He wants me to but because I want to as well.
And no I'm not one of those people who believe good works get you to Heaven, that's not what I mean. Just to clarify.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 I am not asking how you show your faith. I am asking how do you know there is a deity/god involved in your life?
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy Because I've seen miracles within my own family, myself, and in the world. Some of them are personal and I'd like to keep to myself but my grandfather was diagnosed with Colon cancer when I was in 4th grade. He went in for another test and it was completely gone. He had a brain aneurysm just last year, again he went in for another test and it was gone. When he was 17 there was an accident and he drove off a cliff, not a ditch a steep cliff and came out of there with no scratches.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy Some might say that those could happen to anyone, but to the same person?
I've dealt with a lot of difficult things, to me personally, and when I had no one God was there. He healed my heart in ways no science or human being could do. I found my peace and joy in Christ. He loves me no matter how much I mess up, and He shows me His love everyday. He has blessed me beyond then what I could ask for and saved my life so many times. Literally. If it wasn't for Him I would not be here.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy I've seen pains healed, physically aliments disappear, lives saved from danger, and His creation alone is beauty. When I was younger, about 3rd grade, I remember sitting in church on Mother's day. I prayed so hard for my mom to be there. She surprised me and showed up, if you knew me and hers relationship you'd understand the importance of that, and I could feel God. It was like He was holding me, He answered my prayer that meant everything to me. To you it may not be big but to me
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy It meant everything. He healed me a lot that day. And with Him I have been able to forgive my mother for a lot of things, yes I'm still working on it but without Him I would still hate her. I would still be in pain because of her, but I'm not. He set me free. I can't prove that to you, only you can choose that. All I can do is tell you my story and hope you see God's love like I have. Because He loves you. More then we can understand.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 All things you claim to be evidence of your god are common to all faiths and peoples. So either your is rather promiscuous or people are prone to call the good things in their lives acts of their god. The ancient world is littered with temples to all sorts of gods, some of them "Christian." Those believers were convinced of the reality of their gods the same as you are. You have yet to present any evidence that Christianity is true.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy I meant: your god is rather promiscuous
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy Also, I want to add this out of love. If you live your entire life always searching for evidence on things you can't see your going to be very lonely. We can't see love, trust, loyalty, etc. We can see the actions that go with all those things but we can't actually see them. Are you going to doubt everyone that loves you? No, because you choose to love them back you believe that love is real because you believe in them. It's the same way with God I see His love because I choose to.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 No, I can see love, truth and beauty just like anyone else. I just don't ascribe any of those things to deity, as you do. Life is really better for those who don't compromise their reason to accommodate their faith.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 If you were to move out of the USA to another country by choice and could go to any other country you wanted, I think you would most likely pick a country that is more secular than the the USA. Secular cultures tend be happier then religious one. The principle is most likely true for individuals.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy Sir that's where you are wrong. I lived a life that didn't have God in it, and I am much happier with Him in my life. You can't say that it is true for individuals. It's not true for me.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 Just because you are "happier" being a Christian that has nothing to do with whether or not your version or any other version Christianity is true. Why is that you can't provide even one objectively verifiable argument or piece of evidence for your faith?
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy I never said it was. Your argument is becoming flawed by how you keep changing what I actually say. It is true, to me. I didn't say it was true to you or anyone else. It's true to me. I've given you evidence that I believe is evidence. If you choose not to accept that, then that is fine. Maybe you should try praying? Honestly, ask God for the answers you need. Like I said, I'm not a scholar and I don't have all the answers to give you. I wish I could, but God does :). So. Ask Him.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy I know He'd be happy to hear from you :).
I really hope you have a blessed day sir. And if I can help you, I'll always try. Just send me a message :).
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 I'm satisfied that your faith is not in any sense justified by reason. Of course you have the option of correcting that perception if you choose.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy I'm sorry you feel that way. But God is truth to me. Some things you don't have words for. Just because you don't fully understand something doesn't mean it's not true. I don't live by evidence, I live by faith. That's enough for me. It's not just the good that I'm thankful for, I had to go through a tremendous about of pain to get to the good. It's the bad I'm thankful for as well. God got me through that, that's enough evidence for me. I hope one day you find what you need.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 You may be quite sure that a deity is personally involved in your life but I am not. What evidence do you have that a supernatural being is doing anything in your life?
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 Actually preachers shouldn't talk about themselves as much as they do.
JCojocaru 1 month ago
@JCojocaru Yes they should. Preachers should be very open about there personal lives, you can do your research in the Bible :).
It's to keep them accountable. Because it is very dangerous for someone to be in that high of authority, anyone who preachers the Word of God or witnesses to someone and tells them something falsely will be punished by God very harshly, (Verse in 2 Tim.)
As a congregation we should be aware of our pastors lives so we can keep him on track because we love him.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 Being a preacher doesn't give you higher authority. When preachers speak only about themselves and go on and on about stories from their life, the miracles they had a hand in etc, it's more boasting and praising themselves than Christ. A preacher isn't supposed to talk about himself. Show me in the Bible where Jesus talked about himself and when teaching others, spoke of all the miracles he's witnessed etc. He had more right to do it than anyone else, but he didn't.
JCojocaru 1 month ago
@JCojocaru Did I say a preacher should go on and on about themselves? No, I didn't. Listen please. They should be OPEN about themselves. There's a big difference, and that is all in the New Testament. Look it up :). Mostly in 2 Tim. and Titus. Powerful stuff. It isn't about "getting to know" the pastor is more about keeping him accountable.
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@flossybutt25 I think maybe we're just thinking something different altogether. I'm thinking of how most preachers come and all they talk about is themselves and stories/personal experiences (not testimony, just things to show how Godly they are). Truth is, if someone has a word from God, they have just as much right as a Churches pastor to speak it. Unfortunately the pastors run churches like a government does. Accountability: If someone teaches falsely, CORRECT him in public. Simple as that.
JCojocaru 1 month ago
@JCojocaru Yea, I didn't mean the pastor just telling story's about himself I meant the pastor being open about his faults so the church can keep him accountable and call him out openly.
It's sad to see when pastors hide those sins and it eats away at them and it becomes worse just like if anyone keeps a sin hidden, but they are responsible for their congregation they aren't just there to help us, we can help them too :). But yea I think there was just a mis-communication there :).
flossybutt25 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy MD is not the standard for Marriage. The standard for marriage is for husbands to love their wife as Christ love the church and gave himself up for her (Eph 5:25). MD is merely showing an example of how it can be done, passing the message from one brother to another. Hes not perfect and no one should look at him as such. He is not Christ - who is our supreme example
ixobileixobile 1 month ago
@ixobileixobile So what makes MD an authority on how to have a healthy marriage?
Yes you are correct my comment is still there. I couldn't find it before.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy because he is a man submitted to the authority of Christ and the authority of scripture!
beef03rugby 1 month ago