There is no such thing as 'FLAT' engine. You could lay an inline engine 90 degrees to the vertical, would that be 'flat'?
This is a 180 degree V12, straight angle if you will.
Boxing engines are 180 degree Vee engines, with a 180 degree splay angle on the crankshaft throws. (regardless if there is an extra bearing for the crankshaft)
Honda's boxing 6 motorcycles have 4 main bearings.
Subaru's boxing 4 car engines have 5 main bearings.
@SparkDischarge I dont really understand the point you're making, but a boxer engine is absolutely not a V-style engine. It's closer to an inline engine than it is a V-style engine
@cruzmaq 'flat' is an adjective, not an engine style.
Inline is the easiest design. Adding two inline engines together in a Vee formation is the next easiest design. Expanding that Vee design to 180 degrees (straight angle) is slightly more difficult.
Now you take that straight angle Vee engine, modify the crankshaft so you split the journal 180 degrees. That is a boxer engine.
There is no need for a boxer 12 engine, because a 180 degree V12 is still balanced (2 inline 6 engines)
@SparkDischarge what designates something to be a "engine style" then anyway? Your reasoning behind this argument seems so abstract. I think that a flat (boxer) engine IS a different engine style because it doesn't use a V-style engine crankshaft while still using a flat-V styled block.. not totally same as a flat-V block though
@SparkDischarge A boxing engine [boxer] tries to balance itself locally. One piston/connecting rod is directly opposed by another-well as close as it can be.
A 180 degree V12 [straight angle] does not do that. The balance model is that of 2 inline6 engines running on a common journals, which is the same as any V12.
One could make a 180 degree V2, 4, 6, 8, 10, they would be odd firing. So it behooves one to make the more complicated, but even firing, boxing 2, 4, 6, 8, 10.
How would this differ from a true flat 12? I know its because of the 2 pistons per crank pin but i mean what are the advantages/disadvantages of each?
You have the middle 4 pistons moving together. This would result in vibration that can be avoided by using a boxer configuration - find an accurate Porsche engine animation to see what I mean.
@dynosor1 Thanks for your reply and concern about the validity of the information. I got my info from Wikipedia that states "Flat-12 engines are generally not true horizontally opposed engines (boxer), but rather 180° V-engines". Naturally I assumed it was two straight-6 engines put together at 180* since the straight 6 and V-12s are such balanced engines. I'll research more and ensure my animation is accurate :)
@TheRenalicious If you made the V angle of your modeled engine 60 degrees, the crank would represent the typical arrangement used by almost all V12 engines, including Ferrari and the Rolls Royce Merlin.
While a 180 degree V engine is theoretically possible, a 12 cylinder boxer could be made with a lighter crankshaft because the opposing loads cancel each other. Can you name any vehicle that uses or used a 180 degree V12 engine?
There is no such thing as 'FLAT' engine. You could lay an inline engine 90 degrees to the vertical, would that be 'flat'?
This is a 180 degree V12, straight angle if you will.
Boxing engines are 180 degree Vee engines, with a 180 degree splay angle on the crankshaft throws. (regardless if there is an extra bearing for the crankshaft)
Honda's boxing 6 motorcycles have 4 main bearings.
Subaru's boxing 4 car engines have 5 main bearings.
SparkDischarge 6 months ago
@SparkDischarge I dont really understand the point you're making, but a boxer engine is absolutely not a V-style engine. It's closer to an inline engine than it is a V-style engine
cruzmaq 1 month ago
@cruzmaq 'flat' is an adjective, not an engine style.
Inline is the easiest design. Adding two inline engines together in a Vee formation is the next easiest design. Expanding that Vee design to 180 degrees (straight angle) is slightly more difficult.
Now you take that straight angle Vee engine, modify the crankshaft so you split the journal 180 degrees. That is a boxer engine.
There is no need for a boxer 12 engine, because a 180 degree V12 is still balanced (2 inline 6 engines)
SparkDischarge 1 month ago
@SparkDischarge what designates something to be a "engine style" then anyway? Your reasoning behind this argument seems so abstract. I think that a flat (boxer) engine IS a different engine style because it doesn't use a V-style engine crankshaft while still using a flat-V styled block.. not totally same as a flat-V block though
cruzmaq 1 month ago
@SparkDischarge A boxing engine [boxer] tries to balance itself locally. One piston/connecting rod is directly opposed by another-well as close as it can be.
A 180 degree V12 [straight angle] does not do that. The balance model is that of 2 inline6 engines running on a common journals, which is the same as any V12.
One could make a 180 degree V2, 4, 6, 8, 10, they would be odd firing. So it behooves one to make the more complicated, but even firing, boxing 2, 4, 6, 8, 10.
SparkDischarge 1 month ago
great animation videos man. great job.
howyoudone 8 months ago
How would this differ from a true flat 12? I know its because of the 2 pistons per crank pin but i mean what are the advantages/disadvantages of each?
JSnyder49428 10 months ago
You have the middle 4 pistons moving together. This would result in vibration that can be avoided by using a boxer configuration - find an accurate Porsche engine animation to see what I mean.
dynosor1 11 months ago
@dynosor1 Thanks for your reply and concern about the validity of the information. I got my info from Wikipedia that states "Flat-12 engines are generally not true horizontally opposed engines (boxer), but rather 180° V-engines". Naturally I assumed it was two straight-6 engines put together at 180* since the straight 6 and V-12s are such balanced engines. I'll research more and ensure my animation is accurate :)
TheRenalicious 11 months ago
@TheRenalicious If you made the V angle of your modeled engine 60 degrees, the crank would represent the typical arrangement used by almost all V12 engines, including Ferrari and the Rolls Royce Merlin.
While a 180 degree V engine is theoretically possible, a 12 cylinder boxer could be made with a lighter crankshaft because the opposing loads cancel each other. Can you name any vehicle that uses or used a 180 degree V12 engine?
dynosor1 9 months ago
@dynosor1 The Porsche 917 did according to this website "pbase com/917carl/917_12_cyl_engine"
TheRenalicious 9 months ago
@dynosor1 I think the Testerossa was a flat 12 not completely positive but that would be the car to look at.
Skater3z3b 8 months ago
@dynosor1 Here is a Porsche flat-12 engine sectioned off. The crank layout is that of two straight 6 engines linked together. "tinyurl com/5wmux7s"
TheRenalicious 11 months ago
Porsche 917 Turbo.
5.4L Flat 12 with 1580 bhp
0-62mph in 1.9 sec
0-100mph 3.9 sec
0-200mph in 10.9
Top speed 260mph :D lol
vkorinfsky 1 year ago
@vkorinfsky actually Porsche used a v12 with a cylinderbanking of 180* as mentioned
attackhund440 1 year ago
What if it was a 2 stroke! EPIC POWER!
madjimms 1 year ago
I see two straight 6's here sharing a shaft
AcaAllertor127 1 year ago
subaru made a flat 12 too for formula one
oliloi 2 years ago
porsche 917k
pete6891 2 years ago
I do believe there is a Ferrari with a flat 12
747sim2 2 years ago
@747sim2 The Ferrari Testarossa is the only one I know of that had a flat 12.
Arqera 11 months ago
@Arqera The Porsche 917 also had a flat 12
attackhund440 11 months ago
is this in use? or just a hypothetical
HossDelgatto666 2 years ago
nice :)
KLONIME1001 2 years ago