Agreed with all caps... testing has shown that the method of failure of screws in good ice is a bending which leads to ice failure. Having the screw in slightly angled towards the direction of pull reduces the likelyhood of placement failure. In response to mikebarter387, theres always an exception to the rule, but placing screws in rotten ice which require an upward orientation is largely unnecessary as it doesnt creat a reliable placement anyway.
Dude I am afraid to say the dude in the block capitals is right have a look at what roger strong says on the UK climbing website. 10 degrees up is depending on the tube strength of the screw instead of the thread strength.
We have known about this for twenty plus years. However the tube is stronger when the ice is bad. Vertical ice has a habit of being airy and inconsitsnt.
I know whatthe guy is saying. Look he spelt it in caps I can hardly hear. There is a reason why we teach what we teach. We also let people know about the pluses and minuses of depending on threads.
Unless of course the ice is complete crap or air infested. Perhaps when you have so little experience that you can't make a judgement call on ice quality. tests and real world application can sometimes conflict.
Could be that you already discussed this with "gt40f", but I think that discussion was more about which way you should angle the screw.
I don't have any experience with this, but I'll begin ice climbing next year I think. However, I read in Mark Twight's "Extreme Alpinism" that, according to research, the screw is more secure if it's not at an angle at all, but perpendicular to the ice.
What are your thoughts about that? Should I use that method when I start climbing?
Sorry to take so long this is from another poster cut and paste answer
Unless of course the ice is complete crap or air infested. Perhaps when you have so little experience that you can't make a judgement call on ice quality. tests and real world application can sometimes conflict.
good information. sounds like it'd really help a rookie, although I'd never take my glove off! there's just too much of a chance to drop it and that'd not be good.
Wow as much as I can find this seems to be a pretty good - basic start. I think there is a lot of good info here. While the rest of the video and such isn't about tools, leashes and so on, the placement of the screw seems to be a solid "concept" thanks for the you tube.
Because of the extreme temperature variations that we get often after a cold spell the shell of the ice is close to the ambient air temp. However the core ice 15 cm in can be 10 to 15 degrees warmer. With your vast experience you will have noticed that the point of fracture is often close to where the brittle outer shell begins to relax to a warmer more plastic state (relatively).
The best thing for you is not to get into a dick-measuring contest with me. The reason being is that your wife will drop you, you'll never get another girlfriend and your kids will find out that the milkman is their real Dad.
I watched the video again just in case you were right. Little things like dangling tool and no quick release are there but the basic plan for placing a screw still remain the exact same. Planting tool, resting calve, spike for a starter hole, etc.
I hate all the creaking noises....ahhhhrgg....that's terrible
MrAnsonHunter 3 months ago
Agreed with all caps... testing has shown that the method of failure of screws in good ice is a bending which leads to ice failure. Having the screw in slightly angled towards the direction of pull reduces the likelyhood of placement failure. In response to mikebarter387, theres always an exception to the rule, but placing screws in rotten ice which require an upward orientation is largely unnecessary as it doesnt creat a reliable placement anyway.
wormly81 1 year ago
@wormly81 You should check out Mikes Mail EP2 we talk about this quite a bit more. Funny everybody say's this but nobody does it.
"In theory communisiam works"
Homer Simpson
mikebarter387 1 year ago
with gloves on it feels like someone else is doing it......lol. interesting vid, definately something i wan2 try one day
fgda10 2 years ago
Dude I am afraid to say the dude in the block capitals is right have a look at what roger strong says on the UK climbing website. 10 degrees up is depending on the tube strength of the screw instead of the thread strength.
daveforti 2 years ago
We have known about this for twenty plus years. However the tube is stronger when the ice is bad. Vertical ice has a habit of being airy and inconsitsnt.
I know whatthe guy is saying. Look he spelt it in caps I can hardly hear. There is a reason why we teach what we teach. We also let people know about the pluses and minuses of depending on threads.
mikebarter387 2 years ago
DO NOT PLACE SCREW AT AN UPWARD 10-15 degree angle. PLACE IN DIRECTION OF PULL-- 10-15 degree downward angle.
ALWAYS REMAIN CLIPPED IN WHEN OFF BELAY
mgbanach 2 years ago
Unless of course the ice is complete crap or air infested. Perhaps when you have so little experience that you can't make a judgement call on ice quality. tests and real world application can sometimes conflict.
mikebarter387 2 years ago
i thought u just had to nail it in
lilmario248 2 years ago
@lilmario248 The old school ones were like that. ; )
HHSFHarry 1 year ago
Could be that you already discussed this with "gt40f", but I think that discussion was more about which way you should angle the screw.
I don't have any experience with this, but I'll begin ice climbing next year I think. However, I read in Mark Twight's "Extreme Alpinism" that, according to research, the screw is more secure if it's not at an angle at all, but perpendicular to the ice.
What are your thoughts about that? Should I use that method when I start climbing?
Thrusthamster 3 years ago
Sorry to take so long this is from another poster cut and paste answer
Unless of course the ice is complete crap or air infested. Perhaps when you have so little experience that you can't make a judgement call on ice quality. tests and real world application can sometimes conflict.
mikebarter387 2 years ago
Oh my, nostalgia. I remember "fumble city", the cling cling... Good old days.
cride1 3 years ago
good information. sounds like it'd really help a rookie, although I'd never take my glove off! there's just too much of a chance to drop it and that'd not be good.
scoutingchick 3 years ago
Wow as much as I can find this seems to be a pretty good - basic start. I think there is a lot of good info here. While the rest of the video and such isn't about tools, leashes and so on, the placement of the screw seems to be a solid "concept" thanks for the you tube.
jenjamin84 4 years ago
Man thanks alot for the video. I liked how you chopped a step while placing the screw, thats a helpful tip.
jaffriali 4 years ago
Because of the extreme temperature variations that we get often after a cold spell the shell of the ice is close to the ambient air temp. However the core ice 15 cm in can be 10 to 15 degrees warmer. With your vast experience you will have noticed that the point of fracture is often close to where the brittle outer shell begins to relax to a warmer more plastic state (relatively).
mikebarter387 4 years ago
PART 1
The best thing for you is not to get into a dick-measuring contest with me. The reason being is that your wife will drop you, you'll never get another girlfriend and your kids will find out that the milkman is their real Dad.
I watched the video again just in case you were right. Little things like dangling tool and no quick release are there but the basic plan for placing a screw still remain the exact same. Planting tool, resting calve, spike for a starter hole, etc.
mikebarter387 4 years ago
Next time I'm at home, playing with my tools, I will think of you and this video. Thanks!
utahphunk 4 years ago