IF YOU TRULY CARE ABOUT RON PAUL WINNING IOWA LISTEN TO AN EASY AND THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO INFLUENCE THE IOWA CAUCUSES.
GOOGLE AND SIGN UP FOR: "RON PAUL PHONE FROM HOME" IT TAKES LESS THAN 2 MIN. DO IT ASAP. NOW!
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PLEASE, DONT WASTE TIME ON YOUTUBE. THE ELECTION is 8pm EASTERN!
It's people like you, Dr. Paul, who just don't understand how awesome you are... TAKE CHARGE!!! You may hate war for self-interest purposes, but you NEED to wage war against politics!!! WAR I SAY!!! You know what; nevermind. Stay cool; we will fight for you. Barrack Obama got the support needed for a surprising victory just to find out that he is NOT a presider. Preside over us. Leave us be and Love Thy Neighbor As Thy Self. We HAVE YOUR BACK! <3
RON PAUL, WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER! TELL AMERICAN PEOPLE HOW EXACTLY RU GOING TO CREATE JOBS? OK LETS SAY ALL TROOPS CAME BACK AND THEN WHAT? THEY ARE GOING TO SELL IPHONES AND BLACKBERRIES? DUDE BE A MEN, HOW RU GOING TO CREATE JOBS? POPULATION OF CHINA IS 1.4 B CHINESE WORK LIKE ROBOTS, BE HONEST TELL AMERICAN PEOPLE TO BUY UR BOOK U NEED CASH , U LOVE POWER, U LOVE CASH, U WILL NEVER CREATE JOBS, U HAVE NO ANSWER!
Is there anyone better to 'save' the country than Ron Paul? The answer is no. He is a personal hero of mine, and gives me strong hope about the future of our great country. On November 6, 2012, vote for Freedom. Vote for Ron Paul !
This is THE GUY who shows the way, he speaks the truth, THE TRUTH, Get it? Wake up and get involved in reality! I thank God Ron Paul has no fear and tells it like it really is.I wake and wonder where Ive been for so long. Now I see how I need to be a part of the answer!!!! Get going, THINK!!!!
It's astounding to me that he is still characterized as "extreme." I guess that means the Constitution is "extreme". The founding principles are "extreme". Common sense & plain reason are "extreme." The implosion is already in process, & soon the brown stuff will really hit the fan as the effects of QE2,3,& 4 trickle out into the economy, coupled w/ the big speculating activities in commodities show up in the form of higher prices on store shelves. It's going to get bad SOON. Grow up & listen.
@Stepper11 I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!
Capilalism creates a series of mutually beneficial trades. If I found a car that I would be willing to spend up to $100K and the sticker price is $60K. That's a pretty good deal but it happens all the time from both sides of agreements in capitalism. The seller could probably make it for $50K or less. You don't have to make money by fraud or force.
@hodoprime ; exactly! Money can be made purely by "perception" of values, voluntarily agreed to. I sometimes pay more than I know something is actually available for elsewhere, just b/c I want a small farm nearby to stay in business, etc, or purely b/c I like the person and the convenience of having the deal 'done" without further delay is a 'value' to me at the time. "Voluntary" exchange is the key. Without that, it's tyranny.
Ron Paul is our only hope for 2012. If Palin, Obama, or some other puppet is elected; we will not see an end to the empire that is bankrupting us, we will not see a consumption tax code replace the IRS, we will not see an end to property tax, and we will not see an end to the war on drugs.
I dont get why so many progressives/liberals are hostile to libertarianism when they generally agree that power corrupts and that decentralizing power is a good thing. Libertarian society would be the ultimate decentralization.
Also something Ron Paul said in another speech: In a libertarian nation you can go and create a little socialist state somewhere and share the wealth and be independant from the rest, however in a socialist nation you may not have the same freedom.
Even though californians may use pot it is still illegal and disenfranchises them. With the stroke of a pen millions of people were made criminals even though they hurt noone.
I have heard stories that he was the father of Zues, Chuck Norries, and gave birth to the Mario Brothers. When he was a baby he used to play with sand and that's how maountains were made. There was a time when he was bored, Ron Paul threw a rock in the sky, and that's where there is a moon in orbit.
His age is unknown, however, it was rumored when he awoke, he gave Gerorge Washington advice and that's why Washington won the battle. Ron is also a ninja!
When big companies become too big,, they become very inefficient (they become socialistic). This helps the smaller competitors.
Most worker managed companies is not going to be very efficient because they use other peoples money and they will please themselves,, many times you're better of pleasing your company.. Socialism is like that..
I'm just saying, as long as people keep looking at Obama and Bush as the problem the longer we are going to be screwed! No one man can pull this off, we are up against foreign agents and corporate interest with GDP's larger than most country's none of these entities owe loyalty to any flag and their goal is the distruction and distableisation and enslavement of all sovereign nations! And all I hear is talk about grabbing the guns and non of these ignorant basterd know who to shoot!
Got a lot of feed back from my last comment. I hear what some of you guys are saying about the movement being infiltrated, however, the fact is that I don't hear about this, I don't don't see the anti tea party, tea party videos and the outcry or the voices scraming to taking that movement back! What I do have is a good memory and I remember that if anyone spoke out above a wisper against Bush they could end up in Cuba or any number of other places getting their faces washed!
@kaubek The majority, the problem is the majority of americans do not know who he is or that these views are mainstream, the TV and MEDIA press thier agenda into the brains of the masses. They attempt to keep Americans Divided. When ultimately, we really are all united on our one common view... liberty.
Where was the Tea Party during the Bush administration? I mean we have lost more freedoms, put our selves in more danger and caused more damage to this country and it's economy in his 8 years than the entire history of the "Republic". Where was the Tea Party?
You are supporting the entities you're supposedly, supposed to be fighting.
@Alive79311 The REAL Tea Party WAS there! The real Tea Party started as a grass roots movement in 2006-2007 as a protest to Bush's illegal War in Iraq, America's nation building, a protest against the Federal Reserve, the Patriot Act and the government's outrageous spending and also a call for a new independent investigation into 911. Don't be deceived, what the "Tea Party" is today is a hijacked movement by the neocon Republican establishment and Faux News.
@Alive79311 The Tea Party was originally started by independents, libertarians and Ron Paul supporters. Today it is now co opted by Rupert Murdoch (Bilderberg member and Rockefeller buddy) Fox. Now it has neocon Palin as its crowned empress, who was hand picked by Henry Kissinger and advocates his foreign policy of bomb and invade! When the Tea Party was real, it had no attention, but now that it is fake and been co opted back to this false left vs right paradigm, now it is widely known.
@Alive79311 ; good point. Before, and especially after, 9/11 most of us had our heads up our asses. Sadly, the tea party has been largely co-opted by the establishment Republican party and it's original purpose largely diluted and confused as a result. Sadly, many people within the tea party are not awake to the horrid Patriot Act, the truth about 9/11, or even what the Federal Reserve Bank is.
unfortunatley ron paul cant change anything as the system is broken, if hes elected he will just be part of the system..the pres has no real power.. our gov is controlled by who has the most money and lobbiests sad...
Notice when people understand we are the same & all believe in the fundamentals of life, they don't need a teleprompter to talk from the heart . We all live in a world where we know what is important to live life to the fullest. He speaks of the fundamentals that transcend party lines & addresses life as it was meant to be.
Live life free and without the use of force to promote prosperity in the world as a whole. You cant argue with that.
fuck i hate hearing that word change, after barrack 'the dickhead' obama ruined the hope in this country. Change is now a myth in my heart for a better america.
This country has three common problems, common courtesy, common decency, & common sense. Doctor Congressman Paul does not suffer from these common problems. GO RON GO
I would rather drink tea with Ron Paul than listening to Nancy Pelosi and Obama's political bullshit. The China is becoming America #2 and yet we are becoming like Russia of 1989. Wall Street is officially a fucking casino and it is LAME!!! If U.S. attacks Iran then consequences will never be the same and it situation will light up like a christmas tree to the Chinese borders and China will wonder why. If would not dare to think about it. Ron Paul is going to be treated as a dictator.
@DesertFerret7 So the Middle Eastern people hate our freedom?! They could care less! What they really care more is the occupation of NATO and U.S. forces and it is burdening them and causing mass murder in Pakistan. Also if U.S. or Israel nukes Iran then there could be a another Hiroshima or Harrisburg. Green Faction party and the Libertarian party will be the perfect choice and they will smear the Democrats all over the walls. OK I'm Voting for Libertarian or the Green Faction party.
@jmjfanss So what would you suggest? The Republicans and Democrats both suck! I thought the Democrats are the party of the people right? I guessed wrong... The Republicans, every man for himself! I would rather have Ron Paul as a dictator than having Barack Oflipfopdon'tstopbama, Nancy Pelosi , and Harry Reid spending us to hell. I say we cleanse the whitehouse and congress and place Ron Paul in the whitehouse and give him a tank or AFV to drive. So what would you suggest?
Ron Paul is so right to point out that governments primary function should be to protect our individual rights of freedom to choose. What ever happened to, "The Land of the Free?" Why does government believe it has a green light, since 911, to strip us of these God-given rights that are not the government's to take from us? Is it only Ron Paul who understands that big and overly intrusive governments only result in overly burdened citizens that end up being violated against their liberties?
There is no doubt if we give the power to create and issue money to Congress, debt free and interest free, our national debt would be gone. This would take from the Federal reserve type central bankers their power to control our congress, or government. We could then pay the forces that be to run those banker bastards out of this country. That may be a little harsh and maybe there would be other options.. but I believe the majority would agree with me.
If I had to stand and take a bullet for proposing the "Give Power to Issue Money to Congress" bill I would gladly. You Ron Paul must gather up the courage to propose it now. Like Lincoln you may fall to the central banker mob; but propose this bill you must. How many years did you propose the audit the FED with no support in sight? It's time you put it on the table for all to see & consider. This will bring the debate to the table & give congress a solution for the day they are ready.
Go for the throat time Ron Paul. "Give Power to Issue Money to Congress" bill. Audit the FED bill and/or Abolish the FED bill does no good if you dont have a solution and/or remedy. Put the remedy forth FIRST now. We are past feeding the public milk to get them used to the idea that the FED is bad bad bad; they are well aware of that now and those who are not will fall in line fast enough because we have enough momentum. It's time for "Give Power to Issue Money to Congress" bill. Now Ron Paul.
AMERICA UP! United there has been no challenge as Americans we have not been able to defeat. Our economic problems is no different. We need to unite to address the economic problem now. We bought up during prosperous economic times, and we now need to buy down during this devastating economic period. Representing America as an average American citizen, I have an idea that I hope and pray someone in a leadership role shares with America in their own words. SEARCH: It's no secret, the economy
Only force via government can get what Ron Paul wants. If crook is steeling from you, you can not just ask them to stop you must use government force (police) to stop them. Force is the key to individual survival. A man who wants free stuff from government votes for government to take it from you and he is your mortal enemy.
@davincij15 you can't force a person to not be a thief you can only punish them when they steal...you have a point but you're misrepresenting his argument.
The only way to stop government from spending too much or printing too much is with force. You exert it when you vote and convince others to vote for it. You force those that benefit from the government theft to stop benefiting from the theft. From their point of view they are being forced.
Force is not a good or bad thing it's a tool for good or bad things. The issue is to recognize when it's used for good and when it's used for bad. This is subjective though.
@skyblueaugust: I know exactly how you feel, but it is politics still, and he needs to play by their rules. If he goes on tv speaking about Chemtrails and shit, the corporate media would just blast him and we'd never hear from him again. Same with 9/11...he says he doesn't believe it was an inside job (which we all know it was) but he does want a new investigation, in which the truth will certainly come out. Lets just get him into the matrix so he can fuck it up from the inside.
every time Ron Paul smiles, it brings real hope to the average worker that breaks their back just to get their money stolen by a criminal government and giving it to irresponsible people... everytime obama smiles, it makes the average worker cringe...
Seriously I have a digital camera that records in 720P that I will give RP if he wants it, getting a little tired of watching the grainy long speaches.
Ron is like the Wright brothers . When they told the public that they could fly , they were laughed at. The video of them flying was shot 5 years after the first flight.
So until people see the plane flying overhead for several years , this info will fall upon many a def ear. God bless Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!
So ----- where is Ron Paul's voice on CHEMTRAILS THEY ARE SPRAYING US WITH EVERY DAY? HOUSTON is POLLUTED WITH THIS GOVT OPERATION. I like Paul, but he never addresses this life/death issue and HE IS IN A POSITION TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SPRAYING AND WHY.
@SkyBlueAugust - Just how many fronts do you expect the man to have time to fight on at once? He's constantly battling the Fed, in itself a MASSIVE endeavor, while going college to college to lecture on the principles of the Constitution, not to mention his constant uphill battle against all the freedom-robbing legislation the government is trying to slam through before incumbents like Harry Reid are sent home for good...
He's only one man. How about you do YOUR part to educate people?
@veradinx Yes - He is ONE man, and I am grateful that he is waging a war on the Fed. Reserve. It needs to GO! AND, Paul IS IN A POSITION TO FIND OUT WHAT IS IN CHEMTRAILS AND WHY IT IS GOING ON. I am NOT in the same position.
The govt (including ALL CONGRESS people) MUST DISCLOSE WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW. Robbing us thru the Fed Res is one thing, but POISONING US THROUGH INTENSIVE CHEMICAL SPRAYING NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION BY PEOPLE LIKE PAUL.
@LordoftheKaty now that u mention it i got something to say...
So my friends keep hearing me talk about the government, politics etc., and they said to me "You could be a politician!" I blatantly say "No I can't." They ask "Why?" ... I said "I am not a very good liar!" :D
id rather change for the better, ron. Not your outdated capitalist wet dream where blacks cant goto certain stores, and the sweat shops move back to our borders.
@xkeltoix OMG, capitalism has nothing to do with the old outdated and dastardly Jim Crow laws. Capitalism is based on voluntary trade between two agreeing parties where you trade either a service or goods for what there value is, depending on the laws of supply and demand. Where does Jim Crow come in here? Nowhere, because Jim Crow was based on the POLITICS of some racist buffoons!
@KurzLuppii back then Democrats were conservative.
Learn your history. teddy roosevelt was a republican and is celebrated by progressives. A political parties stance on yesteryear does not have any bearing on its current platform.
Learn your history, and stop fucking cherry picking it.
@KurzLuppii the racism of the democratic party was centered in southern democrats, whose legacy now live with the republicans as theyve all switched since..... the party platforms have changed.
@KurzLuppii No, it was not anecdotal evidence, theres not even a way to make it seem like it. You dont know what anecdotes are.
Socialism is extending democracy to the work place. Socialism is the democratic control of the means of production. Socialism is the only system that can give citizens the right to control their lives.
The demand expressed through the purchase of the consumer is the democracy that keeps a company running, changes it or stops it.
Work-managed companies can compete with capitalist ones, and if they are more efficient they should replace capitalism. If you are sure that worker-managed companies are superior you should be advocating a Free Market where both systems can compete so your preferred system can overcome the other. Agree?
You make it seem as if the company that is worker-managed will produce more fairly. Why so? The purchasers remain the same, all it changes is the management of the production. You are mixing 2 topics and insinuating that worker-managed companies will be more humanitarian towards consumers. If that is so, again as I said, support a Free Market and let your preferred system win over the other. Agreed on that?
@asperin It will treat the employees more fairly because the employees actually have a say. But I dont think having a society that bases success on money is efficient. Money is like a middle man.
I didnt say they would be better torwards consumers. I didnt even imply it.
You talked about the limited choice of the consumer and capitalists becoming dictators. Can't the worker-managed companies also produce something regardless of the demand? Yes they can. But they would not sell as much as those who are really addressing the needs of a community, because it's Supply and Demand which would determine the fate of the company in a Free Market not the fact that the company is or is not capitalist. That's what it all boils down to, the consumer's vote.
But that was not my main point. What I wanted is for you to acknowledge that worker-managed companies are better off in a Free Market. In a Free Market there is no govt helping capitalism or the worker-managed system, both exist and compete.
@asperin I would say in theory they may be better off as worker-managed companies. But thats really not my concern. I advocate socialism with no currency, as i believe that is the most efficient way.
I know you advocate Socialism and a moneyless system, two things I oppose for various reasons, but lets not waste too much time arguing about this here. Lets focus on bringing about a Free Market where both systems can compete and we can find the truly best one.
But Capitalism can be voluntary, as well as the worker-managed system. And both can also be forced upon. Would you force people to only have the worker-managed system as a choice and prevent people from owning businesses individually? Who is the abusive barbarian then if that is the case?
You still haven't payed attention or are either ignoring what I'm saying. Lets agree to have a system where both can compete fairly. You shouldn't fear this if you say your system is better.
That implies you are against a Free Market allowing both systems to compete. You are insecure of your system and want to force it unto people instead of letting it defeat capitalism through fair competition.
i did address it. please read what i told you to. i told you where it was and explained it. if you dont understand how i did address it you never will, and i can only hope you take a reading and comprehension class some day.
@xkeltoix Your collectivist thought sucks balls. When you give government 100% control (or people as a collective), we lose all individuality. You are at the will of the state of society. Socialism is legalized theft. At least in capitalism you have to WORK at it to exploit people. So, you said someone else on this comment board was a UTOPIAN? I say look in the fucking mirror lol. We don't have a 'free market' We have a mixed economy, and the less free it gets, prosperity suffers.
So you are in favor of preventing people from owning businesses individually. You are the equivalent of a capitalist that wants to prevent worker-managed companies to exist, just the inverted version.
Voluntary Capitalism implies collective work, cooperation, just that there is central planning. Voluntary Worker-Managed Companies implies collective work, cooperation but there is no central planning. THAT is the main difference. As long as it is voluntary people can choose. That should be your goal, allowing people to choose, that's Liberty, and that comes through a Free Market. You're not in favor of that yet not in favor of forcing people? How do you wanna achieve Socialism then?
@asperin the inequalities that capitalism naturally produces creates wage slavery and does not make it possible for people to actually CHOOSE anything other than a master, if theyre lucky.
work or starve isnt freedom
in order to have capitalism you must have a central authority figure to force everyone to accept capitalist property rights(which not everyone agrees with). this figure is called government, it is run by the political class.
There are a lot of entities that called themselves socialist throughout the years, many of which were not (nazi germany, ussr, cuba, the modern european governments who are actually welfarist etc)
But it is possible to have government while having socialism, but that depends on the form of socialism you believe in. Theres several different forms. Traditional socialism believed in abolishing the state. redistribution of wealth is something taken out of context
@xkeltoix is being part of the socialist system voluntary? or is it forced on all the population? if one does not have the liberty to opt out of such a system, it is just as bad as the capitalism you say is slavery, regardless of the existence of a state or not.
@xkeltoix USSR and Cuba and Nazi Germany are all socialist. Socialism is where the government, in part or in full, runs industry, either through excessive regulation, price fixing, or outright control. EU isn't totally socialist, but they're walking a very fine line. Too much of their working class are government employees. They need to privatize. BTW - Socialism is the reason for all the unrest in the EU. Just so you know
Wage slavery... If workers refuse to do the work the employer cannot force them. Someone has to do the work and the worker CAN demand more. But with the false notion that minimum wage is fair and unions help, the workers let their guard down and sell themselves cheap.
You don't need central authority to have Capitalism, unless you want to force Capitalism unto others, exactly what you want to do with the Worker-Managed system.
Still didn't tell me how you bringing about Socialism.
@asperin He absolutely can force them. He can fire them, and many people will starve without the job, and any othe job they goto they face the same consequences.
Minimum wage is fair, and unions are the reason america has a middle class.
Without a central authority in capitalism I can claim to own anything, including you. It reduces its self to survival of the fittest, or if were lucky common ownership.
The Capitalist cannot force anyone. He can fire them and should be able too, it's his business. Capitalists without people working for them would starve, the worker can always seek another employer to sell his labor to.
Claiming ownership and being able to go through a process to own something are different things. You are exaggerating to try prove a fallacy.
You still cannot tell me how Worker-Managed companies can be sustained. I assume through a monopoly on violence.
@asperin the capitalist CAN force people, those who need the job. Hence the absolutely correct term wage slave. Its only his business because the government SAYS it is because THEY FORCE PROPERTY RIGHTS ONTO EVERYONE ELSE.
Thats just the point, the wage earner must find a master or starve, he has NO freedom.
Nope. Ownership is subjective, thats why we have a government, even Adam Smith admits this.
I never said they would be companies, and you still havent read my statement about f.m vs w.m
The Capitalist cannot force anyone, people might be forced by the situation but that is not the Capitalist doing anything. Without the worker's agreement the Capitalist does not have workers working for him. This is to put an emphasis on the workers, you put an emphasis on the Capitalist, you ignore the collective power workers have, you see them as dumb fucks who need unions and govt to save them.
@xkeltoix Property is the must fundamental right, and it exists without government. I can build a house, and its mine. I never had to ask the government for it. By your logic, life is not a right because its subjective. Sure, a man with a gun can come into the house I built and take it, but he can also shoot me in the head. Does that make my right to life any less inalienable? Of course not! You just don't understand the concept of rights, because by your flawed definition, there are none.
@Jaspian Property is not a right, and your only way to try and convince people that property is a right is just like how a christian naively tries to prove a god exists. You just keep saying it. Well unfortunately for you, its just false.
You can build a house, and someone else can take it. You need government to set property rights into place. PROPERTY RIGHTS ARE SUBJECTIVE. Capitalist property rights are not the only ones out there. Take your head out of the sand.
@xkeltoix You just admitted you don't believe in rights. Someone can kill you, therefore you don't have rights to anything. They can take EVERYTHING from you.
Of course that's not the actual definition of rights. Rights, according to the Greek philosophers, were "obvious of the nature of man". Most humans have legs, ergo, its logical to assume that its human's natural state to be allowed to move about freely. It has nothing to do with the possibility that someone might cut your legs off.
@xkeltoix Sure he can fire them - and they can get work elsewhere. Capitalists aren't dumb. They want the best people they can get, and that means paying them a fair wage so that they don't leave. Otherwise, investment in people (aka "Human capital" - such as experience, training, and soft skills) is wasted as well as having to train new people, getting a bad rap as a poor work environment, and risking of company processes & secrets. America has a middle class because of the Indust Revolution
@xkeltoix Socialism has never worked and never will. Capitalism is in fact the "natural" state of the economy. If you have a civilization in a vacuum with basic laws, such as those against stealing, and no other regulations, capitalism will arise on its own. Capitalism is what's called Spontaneous Order. Its organic. Its completely naturally-arising, socialism isn't. Socialism is incapable of pricing goods and services at their true value, therefore, someone's always losing.
@Jaspian socialism has never been tried on a large scale. its only been done with small communities of people and it has worked. Socialism is the only moral system and it is not slavery, capitalism is slavery. With socialism you do not face the threat of starvation as your basic needs as a human is always met, you are also not forced into labor.Capitalism is slavery, Aristotles justification for slavery is the same as the justification of poverty
@xkeltoix Socialism ONLY works well on a small scale.. Socialism is a collective system you can't easily escape.. Capitalism is an individualist system which one can both escape, even without leaving the geographic location, and thrive in if he possesses any skill. Socialism takes the skill of others and the produced goods of others, and redistributes them for you. How is THAT not a form of slavery for the most productive in society?
@xkeltoix You have utopian ideals plain and simple... Read a few books why don't you? Capitalism IS both natural, and philosophically socialism is far from moral. You think socialism can solve all our problems, but it can't. It requires that the planners, the ones who run society, are barred from human nature, and the problems associated with our human nature. If we were all angels, any societal system would work and none would be necessary. You don't see people in anarchy as free?
When socialism is on a LARGE scale.. It removes people from the fruits of their labor.. On a small scale, such as a tribe or village, socialism works fine because everybody sees the benefits of their labor. Capitalism gives the benefits of labor not only to the buyer, but to the person who labored themselves. "There's nothing natural or moral about capitalism" You clearly don't understand anything about negative and positive rights, and why negative rights are clearly more import
Capitalism is itself only a means and leaves it to the individual to decide the types of goals to be pursued. The intellectual basis of capitalism is that the individual is free and has certain inviolable natural rights. Within a system of capitalism, the proper role of government is simply to enable people to pursue happiness on their own. Happiness cannot be given to people—they must attain it through their own efforts. The government cannot supply more than the prerequisite conditions.
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IF YOU TRULY CARE ABOUT RON PAUL WINNING IOWA LISTEN TO AN EASY AND THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO INFLUENCE THE IOWA CAUCUSES.
GOOGLE AND SIGN UP FOR: "RON PAUL PHONE FROM HOME" IT TAKES LESS THAN 2 MIN. DO IT ASAP. NOW!
THEY WILL CONNECT YOU WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED AS RON PAUL VOTERS, YOU READ A SIMPLE SCRIPT THAT REMINDS THEM ITS TODAY AND WHAT TIME THE CAUCUS IS- YOU CAN SCHEDULE A RIDE FOR THEM THROUGH THE WEBSITE.
PLEASE, DONT WASTE TIME ON YOUTUBE. THE ELECTION is 8pm EASTERN!
JMS13579 1 month ago in playlist Ron Paul 2012
Thumbs up if you watched the whole thing.
Eye2EyeIIIV 3 months ago
Let's get this Gandalf-look-a-like into the White House!
Eye2EyeIIIV 3 months ago 2
On Bernake and monetary change: Please watch:
youtube.com/watch?v=n_bKjVwS_0g
Adriaan1950 4 months ago
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Join the moneybomb for Ron Paul that will take place on Oct. 19! Go to the site BlackThisOut[dot]com asap.
studstad2 4 months ago in playlist Ron Paul 2012
It's people like you, Dr. Paul, who just don't understand how awesome you are... TAKE CHARGE!!! You may hate war for self-interest purposes, but you NEED to wage war against politics!!! WAR I SAY!!! You know what; nevermind. Stay cool; we will fight for you. Barrack Obama got the support needed for a surprising victory just to find out that he is NOT a presider. Preside over us. Leave us be and Love Thy Neighbor As Thy Self. We HAVE YOUR BACK! <3
wac070486 6 months ago
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RON PAUL, WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER! TELL AMERICAN PEOPLE HOW EXACTLY RU GOING TO CREATE JOBS? OK LETS SAY ALL TROOPS CAME BACK AND THEN WHAT? THEY ARE GOING TO SELL IPHONES AND BLACKBERRIES? DUDE BE A MEN, HOW RU GOING TO CREATE JOBS? POPULATION OF CHINA IS 1.4 B CHINESE WORK LIKE ROBOTS, BE HONEST TELL AMERICAN PEOPLE TO BUY UR BOOK U NEED CASH , U LOVE POWER, U LOVE CASH, U WILL NEVER CREATE JOBS, U HAVE NO ANSWER!
democratsaresmart 7 months ago
I could listen to this guy for hours. Love how he makes sense of everything.
Ron Paul 2012
MrKoure 9 months ago 2
Ron Paul 2012.
divegator 11 months ago
Thank you for sharing this. Ron Paul 2012
waem1 1 year ago
Sorry guys, but Ron Paul > Chuck Norris
admthrwn 1 year ago 2
Is there anyone better to 'save' the country than Ron Paul? The answer is no. He is a personal hero of mine, and gives me strong hope about the future of our great country. On November 6, 2012, vote for Freedom. Vote for Ron Paul !
GrandpsBumHip 1 year ago 3
This is THE GUY who shows the way, he speaks the truth, THE TRUTH, Get it? Wake up and get involved in reality! I thank God Ron Paul has no fear and tells it like it really is.I wake and wonder where Ive been for so long. Now I see how I need to be a part of the answer!!!! Get going, THINK!!!!
legendiver 1 year ago 6
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Ron Paul
2012
r3VOLution
slammah2012 1 year ago 2
I enjoy being about to watch him talk for more than 5 or 20 minutes.. Thank you
movingtodie 1 year ago
When morals are clear decisions are easy..
TurboLoveTrain 1 year ago
@TurboLoveTrain Indeed.
Tehmalvs 10 months ago
It's astounding to me that he is still characterized as "extreme." I guess that means the Constitution is "extreme". The founding principles are "extreme". Common sense & plain reason are "extreme." The implosion is already in process, & soon the brown stuff will really hit the fan as the effects of QE2,3,& 4 trickle out into the economy, coupled w/ the big speculating activities in commodities show up in the form of higher prices on store shelves. It's going to get bad SOON. Grow up & listen.
Stepper11 1 year ago 17
@Stepper11 Extreme honesty, extreme truth, and extreme lawfulness. Certainly extreme :)
OneManAndHisFiction 1 year ago
@Stepper11 I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!
snagillim 1 year ago
Capilalism creates a series of mutually beneficial trades. If I found a car that I would be willing to spend up to $100K and the sticker price is $60K. That's a pretty good deal but it happens all the time from both sides of agreements in capitalism. The seller could probably make it for $50K or less. You don't have to make money by fraud or force.
hodoprime 1 year ago
@hodoprime ; exactly! Money can be made purely by "perception" of values, voluntarily agreed to. I sometimes pay more than I know something is actually available for elsewhere, just b/c I want a small farm nearby to stay in business, etc, or purely b/c I like the person and the convenience of having the deal 'done" without further delay is a 'value' to me at the time. "Voluntary" exchange is the key. Without that, it's tyranny.
joygarner 1 year ago
I'm voting for Ron Paul whether he runs in 2012 or not
fudgedogbannana 1 year ago 2
RON PAUL is a GOD of politics
marcetclaude 1 year ago
Ron Paul is our only hope for 2012. If Palin, Obama, or some other puppet is elected; we will not see an end to the empire that is bankrupting us, we will not see a consumption tax code replace the IRS, we will not see an end to property tax, and we will not see an end to the war on drugs.
holidaygolight 1 year ago 3
2 words
common sense
madtycoon10 1 year ago 2
USA Still has a heart beat...oh god i hope we get usa back...
SweeterThanKisses 1 year ago
I dont get why so many progressives/liberals are hostile to libertarianism when they generally agree that power corrupts and that decentralizing power is a good thing. Libertarian society would be the ultimate decentralization.
Also something Ron Paul said in another speech: In a libertarian nation you can go and create a little socialist state somewhere and share the wealth and be independant from the rest, however in a socialist nation you may not have the same freedom.
chaseef 1 year ago
@chaseef Because the someone left the propaganda machine running 24/7 for 30-40 years. That's what happens.
redcorona14 1 year ago
Can we please just get this man elected to the presidency already?!
JMcKenrick 1 year ago 3
Give the strings to Ron Paul!
waspersting 1 year ago
Even though californians may use pot it is still illegal and disenfranchises them. With the stroke of a pen millions of people were made criminals even though they hurt noone.
harryshbg 1 year ago
35:40
Terje1337 1 year ago
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Ron Paul 2012 please!!!!
killergames187 1 year ago 2
41:20 is the greatest. It would indeed be miraculous!
TheBrotherMouzone 1 year ago
Who is this Ron Paul, you ask?
I have heard stories that he was the father of Zues, Chuck Norries, and gave birth to the Mario Brothers. When he was a baby he used to play with sand and that's how maountains were made. There was a time when he was bored, Ron Paul threw a rock in the sky, and that's where there is a moon in orbit.
His age is unknown, however, it was rumored when he awoke, he gave Gerorge Washington advice and that's why Washington won the battle. Ron is also a ninja!
mopuffy01 1 year ago
When big companies become too big,, they become very inefficient (they become socialistic). This helps the smaller competitors.
Most worker managed companies is not going to be very efficient because they use other peoples money and they will please themselves,, many times you're better of pleasing your company.. Socialism is like that..
bjarnet3 1 year ago
I'm just saying, as long as people keep looking at Obama and Bush as the problem the longer we are going to be screwed! No one man can pull this off, we are up against foreign agents and corporate interest with GDP's larger than most country's none of these entities owe loyalty to any flag and their goal is the distruction and distableisation and enslavement of all sovereign nations! And all I hear is talk about grabbing the guns and non of these ignorant basterd know who to shoot!
Alive79311 1 year ago
Got a lot of feed back from my last comment. I hear what some of you guys are saying about the movement being infiltrated, however, the fact is that I don't hear about this, I don't don't see the anti tea party, tea party videos and the outcry or the voices scraming to taking that movement back! What I do have is a good memory and I remember that if anyone spoke out above a wisper against Bush they could end up in Cuba or any number of other places getting their faces washed!
Alive79311 1 year ago
how old is this guy! sharp as a tack still! his message and delivery hasn't changed in 20 damn years
johncrazy8s 1 year ago
Can anyone post exactly who opposed the move to audit the Fed and the supporting reason.
personalperspective 1 year ago
I am curious how popular is Dr. Paul in America now? Only know about him on youtube. Say from 100 Americans, how many share his views?
kaubek 1 year ago
@kaubek The majority, the problem is the majority of americans do not know who he is or that these views are mainstream, the TV and MEDIA press thier agenda into the brains of the masses. They attempt to keep Americans Divided. When ultimately, we really are all united on our one common view... liberty.
mercen144 1 year ago
Where was the Tea Party during the Bush administration? I mean we have lost more freedoms, put our selves in more danger and caused more damage to this country and it's economy in his 8 years than the entire history of the "Republic". Where was the Tea Party?
You are supporting the entities you're supposedly, supposed to be fighting.
Alive79311 1 year ago
@Alive79311 The REAL Tea Party WAS there! The real Tea Party started as a grass roots movement in 2006-2007 as a protest to Bush's illegal War in Iraq, America's nation building, a protest against the Federal Reserve, the Patriot Act and the government's outrageous spending and also a call for a new independent investigation into 911. Don't be deceived, what the "Tea Party" is today is a hijacked movement by the neocon Republican establishment and Faux News.
LordoftheKaty 1 year ago
@Alive79311 The Tea Party was originally started by independents, libertarians and Ron Paul supporters. Today it is now co opted by Rupert Murdoch (Bilderberg member and Rockefeller buddy) Fox. Now it has neocon Palin as its crowned empress, who was hand picked by Henry Kissinger and advocates his foreign policy of bomb and invade! When the Tea Party was real, it had no attention, but now that it is fake and been co opted back to this false left vs right paradigm, now it is widely known.
LordoftheKaty 1 year ago 2
@Alive79311
sad but true. 9/11 made everyone shit themselves, and we were all too eager to sacrifice our freedom for peace of mind. sad state of affairs
johncrazy8s 1 year ago
@Alive79311 ; good point. Before, and especially after, 9/11 most of us had our heads up our asses. Sadly, the tea party has been largely co-opted by the establishment Republican party and it's original purpose largely diluted and confused as a result. Sadly, many people within the tea party are not awake to the horrid Patriot Act, the truth about 9/11, or even what the Federal Reserve Bank is.
joygarner 1 year ago
unfortunatley ron paul cant change anything as the system is broken, if hes elected he will just be part of the system..the pres has no real power.. our gov is controlled by who has the most money and lobbiests sad...
arlichar11 1 year ago
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we all know who the real king is around here
EsCurve 1 year ago
My fear is if you get a real reformer like Ron Paul, the establishment will take him out just like they did JFK.
WhittyPics50 1 year ago
@WhittyPics50 - Fear for your life is the price we pay for speaking the truth and doing what is right.
slobknoblin 1 year ago
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@WhittyPics50
Then you will get just another puppet like bush or soetoro.
AreYouConcerned 1 year ago
@WhittyPics50 Paul is doing enough reform for one man w/o being president, smart huh?
EsCurve 1 year ago
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2 people want to live under a totalitarian regime
niggolas2311 1 year ago
lol 2 people enjoy slavery
treedirt10000 1 year ago 7
This is by far a Ron Paul MUST SEE!
Brilliant!
Notice when people understand we are the same & all believe in the fundamentals of life, they don't need a teleprompter to talk from the heart . We all live in a world where we know what is important to live life to the fullest. He speaks of the fundamentals that transcend party lines & addresses life as it was meant to be.
Live life free and without the use of force to promote prosperity in the world as a whole. You cant argue with that.
dallasgoldbug 1 year ago 2
Ron Paul is a Geniune Hero.
jmjfanss 1 year ago
Ron Paul for King, until he can fix this mess
Quindal 1 year ago
America - just get this man as President, you dumb fucks. Get rid of your masters the corporate fed and STAND UP. FFS. NOW.
PHONEYPOLITICS 1 year ago 3
America - just get this man as President, you dumb fucks. Get rid of your maters the corporate fed and STAND UP. FFS. NOW.
PHONEYPOLITICS 1 year ago 3
Woh! That microphone glitch after 43 minutes--for a second I thought the neocons were making a preemptive strike.
b4ihang 1 year ago
fuck i hate hearing that word change, after barrack 'the dickhead' obama ruined the hope in this country. Change is now a myth in my heart for a better america.
halflifeproductionz 1 year ago
@halflifeproductionz It's a ridiculous promise too. Promising change is like promising the sun will rise. Change is constant.
st4ticblu3 1 year ago
RP just comes off so genuine. Your the man RP! YOU have inspired me to be a better person! thanks RP!
ceasey0xoogurl 1 year ago 4
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Pass this on to everyone you know.
vjacq88 1 year ago
ballzz of steel!!
commando7144 1 year ago
This country has three common problems, common courtesy, common decency, & common sense. Doctor Congressman Paul does not suffer from these common problems. GO RON GO
sintruder 1 year ago 4
I would rather drink tea with Ron Paul than listening to Nancy Pelosi and Obama's political bullshit. The China is becoming America #2 and yet we are becoming like Russia of 1989. Wall Street is officially a fucking casino and it is LAME!!! If U.S. attacks Iran then consequences will never be the same and it situation will light up like a christmas tree to the Chinese borders and China will wonder why. If would not dare to think about it. Ron Paul is going to be treated as a dictator.
DesertFerret7 1 year ago
@DesertFerret7 So the Middle Eastern people hate our freedom?! They could care less! What they really care more is the occupation of NATO and U.S. forces and it is burdening them and causing mass murder in Pakistan. Also if U.S. or Israel nukes Iran then there could be a another Hiroshima or Harrisburg. Green Faction party and the Libertarian party will be the perfect choice and they will smear the Democrats all over the walls. OK I'm Voting for Libertarian or the Green Faction party.
DesertFerret7 1 year ago
@DesertFerret7
How about abolish politcal parties, jesse ventura speaks truth here, I Don't even want a third party anymore.
jmjfanss 1 year ago
@jmjfanss So what would you suggest? The Republicans and Democrats both suck! I thought the Democrats are the party of the people right? I guessed wrong... The Republicans, every man for himself! I would rather have Ron Paul as a dictator than having Barack Oflipfopdon'tstopbama, Nancy Pelosi , and Harry Reid spending us to hell. I say we cleanse the whitehouse and congress and place Ron Paul in the whitehouse and give him a tank or AFV to drive. So what would you suggest?
DesertFerret7 1 year ago
@DesertFerret7
at least ron paul can restore the US Constitution and Reduce government by 90%.
jmjfanss 1 year ago
Ron Paul is JUST what America truly needs. God bless Ron Paul and America.
LesiureBoy 1 year ago 3
Ron Paul Revolution 2012!! The time has come for Freedom and Peace!
Leftovervictim1991 1 year ago 4
RP? 2012? Please?
Weapon01 1 year ago 4
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I support Ron Paul for President even more now than EVER BEFORE.
Ron Paul was right and thats why i have a 5 foot sign in front of my house on a main street to awake people.
The time is now people. Lets organize the grass roots like never before.
mercen144 1 year ago
Ron Paul is so right to point out that governments primary function should be to protect our individual rights of freedom to choose. What ever happened to, "The Land of the Free?" Why does government believe it has a green light, since 911, to strip us of these God-given rights that are not the government's to take from us? Is it only Ron Paul who understands that big and overly intrusive governments only result in overly burdened citizens that end up being violated against their liberties?
nvsyru 1 year ago
@nvsyru
It had that belief long before 9/11....
dartaddict 1 year ago
Rock On Paul
LostFREEDOM 1 year ago
i guess your crazy and so am i. I not only in total agreement with you but you make perfect sence
LostFREEDOM 1 year ago
There is no doubt if we give the power to create and issue money to Congress, debt free and interest free, our national debt would be gone. This would take from the Federal reserve type central bankers their power to control our congress, or government. We could then pay the forces that be to run those banker bastards out of this country. That may be a little harsh and maybe there would be other options.. but I believe the majority would agree with me.
GunClingingPalin 1 year ago
Good man.
vjacq88 1 year ago
If I had to stand and take a bullet for proposing the "Give Power to Issue Money to Congress" bill I would gladly. You Ron Paul must gather up the courage to propose it now. Like Lincoln you may fall to the central banker mob; but propose this bill you must. How many years did you propose the audit the FED with no support in sight? It's time you put it on the table for all to see & consider. This will bring the debate to the table & give congress a solution for the day they are ready.
GunClingingPalin 1 year ago
he makes alot of very good points
skyfrog696969 1 year ago
Go for the throat time Ron Paul. "Give Power to Issue Money to Congress" bill. Audit the FED bill and/or Abolish the FED bill does no good if you dont have a solution and/or remedy. Put the remedy forth FIRST now. We are past feeding the public milk to get them used to the idea that the FED is bad bad bad; they are well aware of that now and those who are not will fall in line fast enough because we have enough momentum. It's time for "Give Power to Issue Money to Congress" bill. Now Ron Paul.
GunClingingPalin 1 year ago
AMERICA UP! United there has been no challenge as Americans we have not been able to defeat. Our economic problems is no different. We need to unite to address the economic problem now. We bought up during prosperous economic times, and we now need to buy down during this devastating economic period. Representing America as an average American citizen, I have an idea that I hope and pray someone in a leadership role shares with America in their own words. SEARCH: It's no secret, the economy
IDvideo100 1 year ago
Paul 2012!
3monkeysmomma 1 year ago
.
"We can achieve SO much more in peace than we ever can in war"
-Ron Paul
.
Ron Paul 2012
.
RonPaulRevolution4u 1 year ago 6
Only force via government can get what Ron Paul wants. If crook is steeling from you, you can not just ask them to stop you must use government force (police) to stop them. Force is the key to individual survival. A man who wants free stuff from government votes for government to take it from you and he is your mortal enemy.
davincij15 1 year ago
@davincij15 you can't force a person to not be a thief you can only punish them when they steal...you have a point but you're misrepresenting his argument.
kingcherub 1 year ago
@kingcherub
The only way to stop government from spending too much or printing too much is with force. You exert it when you vote and convince others to vote for it. You force those that benefit from the government theft to stop benefiting from the theft. From their point of view they are being forced.
Force is not a good or bad thing it's a tool for good or bad things. The issue is to recognize when it's used for good and when it's used for bad. This is subjective though.
davincij15 1 year ago
What a great speech
He's really a good man
Pinko1884 1 year ago 4
Marshall Law School? nice name
godseyeview 1 year ago 2
@godseyeview lmfao yeah i didn't realize that till you said it hah
NooneEatsCandyCorn 1 year ago
@skyblueaugust: I know exactly how you feel, but it is politics still, and he needs to play by their rules. If he goes on tv speaking about Chemtrails and shit, the corporate media would just blast him and we'd never hear from him again. Same with 9/11...he says he doesn't believe it was an inside job (which we all know it was) but he does want a new investigation, in which the truth will certainly come out. Lets just get him into the matrix so he can fuck it up from the inside.
HelpWakePeopleUp 1 year ago
Let's bring back Capitalism!
JaysThoughts 1 year ago
every time Ron Paul smiles, it brings real hope to the average worker that breaks their back just to get their money stolen by a criminal government and giving it to irresponsible people... everytime obama smiles, it makes the average worker cringe...
MrShane737 1 year ago
Seriously I have a digital camera that records in 720P that I will give RP if he wants it, getting a little tired of watching the grainy long speaches.
cellspotbiz 1 year ago
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DarkHero187 1 year ago
Ron is like the Wright brothers . When they told the public that they could fly , they were laughed at. The video of them flying was shot 5 years after the first flight.
So until people see the plane flying overhead for several years , this info will fall upon many a def ear. God bless Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!
graasroots 1 year ago
So ----- where is Ron Paul's voice on CHEMTRAILS THEY ARE SPRAYING US WITH EVERY DAY? HOUSTON is POLLUTED WITH THIS GOVT OPERATION. I like Paul, but he never addresses this life/death issue and HE IS IN A POSITION TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SPRAYING AND WHY.
SkyBlueAugust 1 year ago
@SkyBlueAugust - Just how many fronts do you expect the man to have time to fight on at once? He's constantly battling the Fed, in itself a MASSIVE endeavor, while going college to college to lecture on the principles of the Constitution, not to mention his constant uphill battle against all the freedom-robbing legislation the government is trying to slam through before incumbents like Harry Reid are sent home for good...
He's only one man. How about you do YOUR part to educate people?
veradinx 1 year ago 5
@veradinx Yes - He is ONE man, and I am grateful that he is waging a war on the Fed. Reserve. It needs to GO! AND, Paul IS IN A POSITION TO FIND OUT WHAT IS IN CHEMTRAILS AND WHY IT IS GOING ON. I am NOT in the same position.
The govt (including ALL CONGRESS people) MUST DISCLOSE WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW. Robbing us thru the Fed Res is one thing, but POISONING US THROUGH INTENSIVE CHEMICAL SPRAYING NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION BY PEOPLE LIKE PAUL.
SkyBlueAugust 1 year ago
I can't think of anyone who wants the "US to be the Policemen of the world".
ChristiannaGarrett1 1 year ago
@ChristiannaGarrett1 How about George Bush, Obama, Clinton, Romney and all them politicians in Washington?
LordoftheKaty 1 year ago
@LordoftheKaty haha..True!
ChristiannaGarrett1 1 year ago
@LordoftheKaty now that u mention it i got something to say...
So my friends keep hearing me talk about the government, politics etc., and they said to me "You could be a politician!" I blatantly say "No I can't." They ask "Why?" ... I said "I am not a very good liar!" :D
Shoomoo111 1 year ago
id rather change for the better, ron. Not your outdated capitalist wet dream where blacks cant goto certain stores, and the sweat shops move back to our borders.
fuck capitalism
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix OMG, capitalism has nothing to do with the old outdated and dastardly Jim Crow laws. Capitalism is based on voluntary trade between two agreeing parties where you trade either a service or goods for what there value is, depending on the laws of supply and demand. Where does Jim Crow come in here? Nowhere, because Jim Crow was based on the POLITICS of some racist buffoons!
LordoftheKaty 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
Run back to your Democrats the ones who supported racism back in the day.
KurzLuppii 1 year ago
@KurzLuppii back then Democrats were conservative.
Learn your history. teddy roosevelt was a republican and is celebrated by progressives. A political parties stance on yesteryear does not have any bearing on its current platform.
Learn your history, and stop fucking cherry picking it.
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
Each party had their share of progressives, liberals, and conservatives.
I never heard anything about the republican party ever endorsing racism.
KurzLuppii 1 year ago
@KurzLuppii the racism of the democratic party was centered in southern democrats, whose legacy now live with the republicans as theyve all switched since..... the party platforms have changed.
republicans used to be the liberals
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
LOL republicans are now the racists?
KurzLuppii 1 year ago
@KurzLuppii If youre a racist, youre probably a republican. But republicans are not necessarily racist
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
LOL I've seen plenty of racist democrats.
The question comes who would you rather give power to?
The citizens or the government.
KurzLuppii 1 year ago
@KurzLuppii anecdotal evidence ftl.
citizens. thats why im a socialist
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
anecdotal evidence is the same bs you were pushing.
Socialist is still giving power to the government to decide what to do with society.
KurzLuppii 1 year ago
@KurzLuppii No, it was not anecdotal evidence, theres not even a way to make it seem like it. You dont know what anecdotes are.
Socialism is extending democracy to the work place. Socialism is the democratic control of the means of production. Socialism is the only system that can give citizens the right to control their lives.
Ignorance is not bliss.
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
The demand expressed through the purchase of the consumer is the democracy that keeps a company running, changes it or stops it.
Work-managed companies can compete with capitalist ones, and if they are more efficient they should replace capitalism. If you are sure that worker-managed companies are superior you should be advocating a Free Market where both systems can compete so your preferred system can overcome the other. Agree?
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin when people buy things at a market place they are buying things based not on their own choices, but choices given to them.
If a person is less well off, they have even less choices and capitalism becomes an a despotic dictatorship.
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
You make it seem as if the company that is worker-managed will produce more fairly. Why so? The purchasers remain the same, all it changes is the management of the production. You are mixing 2 topics and insinuating that worker-managed companies will be more humanitarian towards consumers. If that is so, again as I said, support a Free Market and let your preferred system win over the other. Agreed on that?
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin It will treat the employees more fairly because the employees actually have a say. But I dont think having a society that bases success on money is efficient. Money is like a middle man.
I didnt say they would be better torwards consumers. I didnt even imply it.
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
You talked about the limited choice of the consumer and capitalists becoming dictators. Can't the worker-managed companies also produce something regardless of the demand? Yes they can. But they would not sell as much as those who are really addressing the needs of a community, because it's Supply and Demand which would determine the fate of the company in a Free Market not the fact that the company is or is not capitalist. That's what it all boils down to, the consumer's vote.
Cont
asperin 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
But that was not my main point. What I wanted is for you to acknowledge that worker-managed companies are better off in a Free Market. In a Free Market there is no govt helping capitalism or the worker-managed system, both exist and compete.
So would you at least agree with me on that now?
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin I would say in theory they may be better off as worker-managed companies. But thats really not my concern. I advocate socialism with no currency, as i believe that is the most efficient way.
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
I know you advocate Socialism and a moneyless system, two things I oppose for various reasons, but lets not waste too much time arguing about this here. Lets focus on bringing about a Free Market where both systems can compete and we can find the truly best one.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin Would you allow a system where children get abused, but also a system along side of it where they dont, to see which is better?
It doesnt make sense to give capitalism any more chances. It has failed too many times, and will only continue to do so.
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
But Capitalism can be voluntary, as well as the worker-managed system. And both can also be forced upon. Would you force people to only have the worker-managed system as a choice and prevent people from owning businesses individually? Who is the abusive barbarian then if that is the case?
You still haven't payed attention or are either ignoring what I'm saying. Lets agree to have a system where both can compete fairly. You shouldn't fear this if you say your system is better.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin capitalism can be voluntary just like communism can work. its all hypothetical.
You must have democratic work places in order to have fairness, order and efficiency.
I already addressed your statement about letting the two compete. click view all comments youll see it
xkeltoix 1 year ago
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@xkeltoix
No you haven't, dude. I will apologize to you for my lack of attention if you show me where you say so. I don't see it anywhere.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin ctrl+f Would you allow a system where children should find it
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
That implies you are against a Free Market allowing both systems to compete. You are insecure of your system and want to force it unto people instead of letting it defeat capitalism through fair competition.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin no it doesnt imply that, as i was making a moral statement in that instance.
if one argues for the efficiency of socialism, then they logically would not want an inefficient system like capitalism slowing down human progress.
so theres really no room to say that
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
So if it doesn't imply forcing people to only abide by a worker-managed system then it doesn't imply that you are in favor of a Free Market either.
You never addressed the topic of fair competition.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin im not in favor of a free market....
i did address it. please read what i told you to. i told you where it was and explained it. if you dont understand how i did address it you never will, and i can only hope you take a reading and comprehension class some day.
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix Your collectivist thought sucks balls. When you give government 100% control (or people as a collective), we lose all individuality. You are at the will of the state of society. Socialism is legalized theft. At least in capitalism you have to WORK at it to exploit people. So, you said someone else on this comment board was a UTOPIAN? I say look in the fucking mirror lol. We don't have a 'free market' We have a mixed economy, and the less free it gets, prosperity suffers.
Clyaton 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
So you are in favor of preventing people from owning businesses individually. You are the equivalent of a capitalist that wants to prevent worker-managed companies to exist, just the inverted version.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin nope. im against setting up a framework that allows one person to have a dictatorship over resources and people.
capitalism is not the natural course for humanity. humanity is collective in nature, with capitalism you must have authoritarianism.
i am for freedom, thus i am a socialist.
we have to MAKE capitalism work, but socialism just works
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
Voluntary Capitalism implies collective work, cooperation, just that there is central planning. Voluntary Worker-Managed Companies implies collective work, cooperation but there is no central planning. THAT is the main difference. As long as it is voluntary people can choose. That should be your goal, allowing people to choose, that's Liberty, and that comes through a Free Market. You're not in favor of that yet not in favor of forcing people? How do you wanna achieve Socialism then?
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin the inequalities that capitalism naturally produces creates wage slavery and does not make it possible for people to actually CHOOSE anything other than a master, if theyre lucky.
work or starve isnt freedom
in order to have capitalism you must have a central authority figure to force everyone to accept capitalist property rights(which not everyone agrees with). this figure is called government, it is run by the political class.
capitalism is slavery. socialism is freedom
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix and socialism does not require some sort of governing body to enforce its distribution of wealth?
band4132 1 year ago
@band4132 traditionally, no.
There are a lot of entities that called themselves socialist throughout the years, many of which were not (nazi germany, ussr, cuba, the modern european governments who are actually welfarist etc)
But it is possible to have government while having socialism, but that depends on the form of socialism you believe in. Theres several different forms. Traditional socialism believed in abolishing the state. redistribution of wealth is something taken out of context
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix is being part of the socialist system voluntary? or is it forced on all the population? if one does not have the liberty to opt out of such a system, it is just as bad as the capitalism you say is slavery, regardless of the existence of a state or not.
band4132 1 year ago
@band4132 There isnt a form of socialism that im aware of that says you cant opt out.
Keep in mind that governments such as the ussr, cuba, EU etc are not truly socialist despite the use of the term.
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix USSR and Cuba and Nazi Germany are all socialist. Socialism is where the government, in part or in full, runs industry, either through excessive regulation, price fixing, or outright control. EU isn't totally socialist, but they're walking a very fine line. Too much of their working class are government employees. They need to privatize. BTW - Socialism is the reason for all the unrest in the EU. Just so you know
Jaspian 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
Wage slavery... If workers refuse to do the work the employer cannot force them. Someone has to do the work and the worker CAN demand more. But with the false notion that minimum wage is fair and unions help, the workers let their guard down and sell themselves cheap.
You don't need central authority to have Capitalism, unless you want to force Capitalism unto others, exactly what you want to do with the Worker-Managed system.
Still didn't tell me how you bringing about Socialism.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin He absolutely can force them. He can fire them, and many people will starve without the job, and any othe job they goto they face the same consequences.
Minimum wage is fair, and unions are the reason america has a middle class.
Without a central authority in capitalism I can claim to own anything, including you. It reduces its self to survival of the fittest, or if were lucky common ownership.
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
The Capitalist cannot force anyone. He can fire them and should be able too, it's his business. Capitalists without people working for them would starve, the worker can always seek another employer to sell his labor to.
Claiming ownership and being able to go through a process to own something are different things. You are exaggerating to try prove a fallacy.
You still cannot tell me how Worker-Managed companies can be sustained. I assume through a monopoly on violence.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin the capitalist CAN force people, those who need the job. Hence the absolutely correct term wage slave. Its only his business because the government SAYS it is because THEY FORCE PROPERTY RIGHTS ONTO EVERYONE ELSE.
Thats just the point, the wage earner must find a master or starve, he has NO freedom.
Nope. Ownership is subjective, thats why we have a government, even Adam Smith admits this.
I never said they would be companies, and you still havent read my statement about f.m vs w.m
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
The Capitalist cannot force anyone, people might be forced by the situation but that is not the Capitalist doing anything. Without the worker's agreement the Capitalist does not have workers working for him. This is to put an emphasis on the workers, you put an emphasis on the Capitalist, you ignore the collective power workers have, you see them as dumb fucks who need unions and govt to save them.
(cont...)
asperin 1 year ago
@xkeltoix
You oppose property rights? Then how does worker-managed company X keeps their facility from being taken away from worker-managed company Y?
asperin 1 year ago
@xkeltoix Property is the must fundamental right, and it exists without government. I can build a house, and its mine. I never had to ask the government for it. By your logic, life is not a right because its subjective. Sure, a man with a gun can come into the house I built and take it, but he can also shoot me in the head. Does that make my right to life any less inalienable? Of course not! You just don't understand the concept of rights, because by your flawed definition, there are none.
Jaspian 1 year ago
@Jaspian Property is not a right, and your only way to try and convince people that property is a right is just like how a christian naively tries to prove a god exists. You just keep saying it. Well unfortunately for you, its just false.
You can build a house, and someone else can take it. You need government to set property rights into place. PROPERTY RIGHTS ARE SUBJECTIVE. Capitalist property rights are not the only ones out there. Take your head out of the sand.
resp 2/3
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix You just admitted you don't believe in rights. Someone can kill you, therefore you don't have rights to anything. They can take EVERYTHING from you.
Of course that's not the actual definition of rights. Rights, according to the Greek philosophers, were "obvious of the nature of man". Most humans have legs, ergo, its logical to assume that its human's natural state to be allowed to move about freely. It has nothing to do with the possibility that someone might cut your legs off.
Jaspian 1 year ago
@xkeltoix Sure he can fire them - and they can get work elsewhere. Capitalists aren't dumb. They want the best people they can get, and that means paying them a fair wage so that they don't leave. Otherwise, investment in people (aka "Human capital" - such as experience, training, and soft skills) is wasted as well as having to train new people, getting a bad rap as a poor work environment, and risking of company processes & secrets. America has a middle class because of the Indust Revolution
Jaspian 1 year ago
@xkeltoix Socialism has never worked and never will. Capitalism is in fact the "natural" state of the economy. If you have a civilization in a vacuum with basic laws, such as those against stealing, and no other regulations, capitalism will arise on its own. Capitalism is what's called Spontaneous Order. Its organic. Its completely naturally-arising, socialism isn't. Socialism is incapable of pricing goods and services at their true value, therefore, someone's always losing.
Jaspian 1 year ago
@Jaspian socialism has never been tried on a large scale. its only been done with small communities of people and it has worked. Socialism is the only moral system and it is not slavery, capitalism is slavery. With socialism you do not face the threat of starvation as your basic needs as a human is always met, you are also not forced into labor.Capitalism is slavery, Aristotles justification for slavery is the same as the justification of poverty
Theres nothing natural or moral about capitalism
xkeltoix 1 year ago
@xkeltoix Socialism ONLY works well on a small scale.. Socialism is a collective system you can't easily escape.. Capitalism is an individualist system which one can both escape, even without leaving the geographic location, and thrive in if he possesses any skill. Socialism takes the skill of others and the produced goods of others, and redistributes them for you. How is THAT not a form of slavery for the most productive in society?
Clyaton 1 year ago
@xkeltoix You have utopian ideals plain and simple... Read a few books why don't you? Capitalism IS both natural, and philosophically socialism is far from moral. You think socialism can solve all our problems, but it can't. It requires that the planners, the ones who run society, are barred from human nature, and the problems associated with our human nature. If we were all angels, any societal system would work and none would be necessary. You don't see people in anarchy as free?
Clyaton 1 year ago
When socialism is on a LARGE scale.. It removes people from the fruits of their labor.. On a small scale, such as a tribe or village, socialism works fine because everybody sees the benefits of their labor. Capitalism gives the benefits of labor not only to the buyer, but to the person who labored themselves. "There's nothing natural or moral about capitalism" You clearly don't understand anything about negative and positive rights, and why negative rights are clearly more import
Clyaton 1 year ago
Capitalism is itself only a means and leaves it to the individual to decide the types of goals to be pursued. The intellectual basis of capitalism is that the individual is free and has certain inviolable natural rights. Within a system of capitalism, the proper role of government is simply to enable people to pursue happiness on their own. Happiness cannot be given to people—they must attain it through their own efforts. The government cannot supply more than the prerequisite conditions.
Clyaton 1 year ago
@Clyaton should say SHOULD not supply more than the prerequisite conditions..
I think the problem here, is you want freebies, as I want to just be free to pursue my own goals life and the choices over my life.
Clyaton