Citric/Heroin Reaction

[thalaxia]

Is this fucking retarded or what?

[S0LINARI]

@thalaxia To what are you referring to?

[thalaxia]

@S0LINARI the video, its just enabling the behavior.

[S0LINARI]

@thalaxia How is it enabling behaviour? It's called HARM reduction. If people are going to use and inject heroin then guess what Einstein, THEY ARE GOING TO USE AND INJECT HEROIN.

Showing people how to use the correct amount of citric acid if they are using brown heroin that requires an acid is going to prevent them from burning their veins out in a couple of months.

Enabling behaviour, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[S0LINARI]

@thalaxia Would you argue that giving advice on how many units of alcohol a person should use each week is enabling behaviour? What's the difference?

In order to enable someone, that person must be using in the first place. Use a bit of common sense and logic you ignorant close minded fool.

It's HARM REDUCTION, people do what people do, why not educate them to do it without destroying their body? Speaking of eduction, why don't you educate yourself on the real reason these drugs are illegal.

[MusicToEatOfficial]

A laboratorist is gonna take heroin!! OLOL

[S0LINARI]

@TheSaulos Go get an education you ignorant prick!

[Raflegan]

ten pound bag? as an American, that sounds fucking amazing. lol

Also, if you had baking soda mixed with water to heroin hydrochloride (U.S. heroin) it will become heroin base like British heroin and not dissolve.

[S0LINARI]

@Raflegan Well a "ten pound bag" simply means £10 worth of heroin, i am sure you knew this of course. It's colloquially called a "tenner bag". I assume that a "dime bag" means the same thing, $10 worth of [insert drug here]. I always found it slightly odd they call it a dime bag, since a dime is worth 10¢ not 10 dollars. Then again i doubt you guys call $10 a "tenner" (or $5 a "fiver") right?

As for the Baking soda, i suppose it could turn heroin HCL in to base.

[Raflegan]

@S0LINARI ...We do call a $5 - "five cents" worth of dope, though. In-fact everything is scaled down one hundredth for some reason in US slang. And it has happened before my eyes, so yes baking soda works.

[HuxXy100]

fuck taking that shit

[oCRYPTKEEPERo]

wow iam glad i dont do heroine you should all stop you only get one life dont fuck it up any more than you already have

[S0LINARI]

@oCRYPTKEEPERo Oh hush. What do you do on the weekend? Do you drink, do you smoke? The problem with heroin is the social stigma attached to it. I am not denying it's an extremely addictive drug but you can become addicted to many many things; sex, video games, extreme sports, stamp collecting etc.

WE ALL HAVE OUR VICES.

Not everyone that uses heroin becomes an addict and those that do don't all go out robbing old grannies.

You have no idea what you;re talking about.

[andytsa]

in greece 99 out of 10 times we use lemons.its just impossible to find acid in the middle of the night and every garden here has one or two lemon trees..

[Oldskool01Hakken]

thank fuck in Australia we never had to do this. We always had China white. Its desolved in water pretty much straight away. We never even had to burn until 2000 when i biggest bust in our history was made then all there was, was this chocolate looking heroin for 6 months. I got clean in 2001. I'll never touch that shit again no matter how bad life gets.

[blizzardballz]

She acts like its a cooking show. BAM!!!

[MusicToEatOfficial]

why the fuck do heroin? destroy your life?

[S0LINARI]

@MusicToEatOfficial Why the fuck drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes?

Alcohol and tobacco account for more deaths than ALL other drugs COMBINED and that includes prescription drugs.

In fact tobacco ALONE account for 34 times the number of deaths from ALL other drugs combined and 10 times the number of deaths from all other drugs combined including alcohol.

The illicit nature of heroin accounts for a large part of the problems associated with it.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[MusicToEatOfficial]

@S0LINARI

yes that's because it's more people that is smoking than doing heroin you dumb ass...

And then.. How fckd up do you get in your brain after a cigarette? Some of my older friends are just fucked up.. and you feel so fucking bad when you don't get heroin.

so would you rather try heroin than cigarette than do it!

[S0LINARI]

@MusicToEatOfficial And why is it that more people smoke cigarettes than take heroin? Cause they are LEGAL. Heroin has ZERO damaging effects on any organs of the body including the brain ZERO, nothing nada! Now illicit heroin is another matter because it can come with adulterants but pure sterile clean heroin has NO damaging effects on the body whatsoever.

Withdrawals is another issue ENTIRELY and it is a metabolic problem and it won't do you any real harm, unpleasant as fuck but no real harm.

[S0LINARI]

@MusicToEatOfficial Besides, i was talking about ALL drugs ALL drugs including prescriptions drugs, EVERYTHING from paracetamol to opioid painkillers and ALL other illicit/illegal drugs.

Heroin in it's pure clean sterile form will not cause brain damage, liver damage kidney damage, heart disease and it is not carcinogenic.

The VAST majority of problems associated with heroin use stem from its illicit nature and illegality as well as a hypocritical disproportionate social stigma.

[CombatDaggers]

can u add extra water after having made the mix? would this reduce the damage to veins? anyways how quickly does no.3 stuff up ur veins? cause ive been using white heroin for several years and have good veins, no marks or anything thanks to good vein care.

[S0LINARI]

@CombatDaggers Yes, you could add extra water and reduce the pH of the solution but unless excessive acid has been used then i doubt it will make that much difference to vein damage. Vein damage it's usually caused by bad technique which includes too much acid and if you still have your veins after years of use then continuing to be careful is the best thing to do.

Rotation of injection sites and the appropriate amount of acid should be sufficient to maintain healthy veins.

[CheetoFireCat]

i got a question..is the citric acid only for helping break down the herion and not a vitamin to help cause less damage to the body? i'm curious and i'm trying to understand this stuff fully.

[S0LINARI]

@CheetoFireCat The citric is only to help break down the heroin. People are sometimes shocked thinking "adding acid, you're crazy". A medical preparation of heroin for injection is called diamorphine hydrochloride, which is a salt where hydrochloric acid is used rather than citric acid but it results in a fairly neutral solution (properly prepared).

Street users also use vitamin C instead of citric acid and the use of vitamin C has absolutely ZERO health benefits over citric acid.

[eedobee]

@S0LINARI Might ascorbic acid have a lower pH to strong acids?

[S0LINARI]

@eedobee Found my account info.

Using ascorbic acid will not really result in a lower pH. Since Vit C is weaker than citric it means more is required, this means the pH level will essentially be the same. Because Vit C is weaker and more is required it means the margin of error is lower and this alone could result in a lower pH level.

However, in order to dissolve the heroin fully, the same pH is required regardless of what acid is used.

[S0LINARI]

@eedobee In this video the way in which it is prepared is the best way to do it. Add the gear, then the water and then add the acid bit by bit, doing it this way means you can always add more. Actually the same goes for using drugs in general, you can always add, you can never subtract, this is a good rule to avoid OD.

The majority of addicts add the gear then empty a full sachet of acid on top, then add the water, this is how you lose veins.

[Quentenra]

@S0LINARI Very true in using drugs in general, if in case its heroin or other opium based drugs taken Intravenously it is not the case. Here is why! If some one takes half of what they usually take that they are use to then take the other half right after they won't be as high.. mainly because they need what they are use to taking for that euphoric rush. So in doing so they don't get as high and would tend to probably take more and risk od even though they are not feeling as high they still od.

[S0LINARI]

The video above used 130mg and 97mg diamorphine citrate came back. That means 130÷97 = 74% pure, that is high purity heroin.

It is unlikely you would find higher purity on the street and if you did then the MAXIMUM amount of citric you would need to dissolve 130mg of 100% pure brown would be 25mg of citric acid.

Now a days the average bag is closer to 200mg, if that was 74% pure you would need a maximum of 30mg of citric.

It is VERY unlikely you will find higher purity, so LESS is needed.

[eedobee]

@S0LINARI I meant, rather than using citric acid, would it be possible to use a less harmful acid, such as Ascorbic acid? Ascorbic acid is less soluble, but has a lower molecular weight and a higher pKa, so it would yield less harmful results. It would still release enough protons to dissolve all the heroin, but any excess would cause less tissue damage, and may help recovery.

I don't use heroin myself, so maybe there is a reason why citric is necessary, but Ascorbic acid should do the job.

[S0LINARI]

@eedobee I am not up to speed on pKa, i know vaguely what it is but i can't comment on it. Ascorbic acid will definitely do the job. I know some exchanges give out vit C instead of citric, either that or they offer a choice of vit C or citric.

I think vit C is probably the better option since it requires more compared to citric it has a higher margin of error. This means it's more likely users will not go too far beyond what is actually required.

[S0LINARI]

@eedobee Or is that lower margin of error, either way you know what i mean.

[eedobee]

@S0LINARI huh? I was responding to the claim that vit C has no health benefits over citric.

[hilololomoa]

when the camara is off she sticks it up her ass.XD

[FreshAsHell]

i bet when the camara is off she sticks it in her arm

[DavidBowieILoveYou]

drools

[mrjew]

Ah fuck heroin. Pharmaceutical opiates are much cleaner and safer.

[Shnufkin]

@mrjew But not as fun!

[mrjew]

@Shnufkin In all honesty, I get alot more enjoyable high of oxycontin. Heroin makes me want to just sleep, with alot less euphoria. Weird eh?

[Shnufkin]

@mrjew Each to his own I suppose!

[Sozlled]

It's not true that vitamin C is less damaging to veins, more vit C is required because it's less acidic but the same pH level is still required in order to dissolve the heroin base.

pH is pH whether it's from citric acid or ascorbic acid (Vitamin C).

[shanepaulcoward]

The majority of addicts know to use as little citric as possible. Why don't you provide vitC sachets rather than citric? It dose the same thing, but's less damaging to the veins!

[ExchangeSupplies]

@shanepaulcoward we do put vitC in sachets too - see the exchange supplies website for details...

[S0LINARI]

Morphine HCL would dissolve in water because it's already in a salt form. Morphine rarely comes as a hydrochloride salt, it's usually morphine sulphate.

Brown heroin (H3) base can be compared to crack cocaine which is a base. Whereas white (or off white) heroin (H4) can be compared to cocaine (HCL) since both are in the hydrochloride salt form.

White heroin 4 is rarely found in the UK but it is available and properly cut relatively pure heroin HCl (H4) should dissolve on contact in water.

[CheetoFireCat]

@S0LINARI thanks i didn't know any of this! :)

[S0LINARI]

Heroin in the UK is not morphine HCL, its diamorphine BASE aka H3 which is generally brown. Only white (off white) heroin is diamorphine HCL (or H4). For brown heroin (H3) an acid is required, in this case citric acid which turns it from a base in to the salt diamorphine citrate. To turn it in to diamorphine HCl, hydrochloric acid would be required

The numbers come from, opium(1), to morphine base(2) to diamorphine base(H3) to diamorphine hydrochloride(H4).This is where we get H3 and H4 from.

[Bruinpena]

Yeah, but even heroin addicts do not want their veins collapsing due to the ph level of the solution because it only makes it that much harder to shoot up and more noticeable as well.

[badsign1980]

actually what we call heroin is really morphine hcl, that why it dosent dissolve in water, real heroin dissolves in water, that why they break down the morphine with act charcoal and acid hcl

[compactdisk2]

@badsign1980 Dude, do some research. Heroin is NOT morphine hcl. It is a different drug altogether.

[dirtybird2212]

@compactdisk2

heroin is derived from morphine

heroin and morphine are just slightly chemically different

[compactdisk2]

@dirtybird2212 Well, morphine is used as a precursor for synthesizing heroin, and yes, they're both opiates, and fairly similar chemically, but they're significantly different in a number of ways. Heroin being more potent, yet not nearly as effective orally as morphine, and morphine is fairly unique in that IV injection causes a fairly powerful histamine release. The guy I was replying to thought heroin was just a salt of morphine, which is 100% incorrect.

[myguitardidyermom12]

damn son...i bet i know what they did after the camera went off

[Porzstar]

bet that is top grade H they using as well!! I think most users know to use as little citric as possible, personally I used to use Vitamin c powder to break down the H

[bcubed72]

0:22 "Trying to dissolve a 10-lb. bag..."

[DROOL]...

(YES I know what he meant, but a boy can dream, right?)

[wyattandy]

im a herion user and knew this but lots of people dont its only cause ive been fdoing it for about 10 years at start i knew nothing and really damaged my body this is good to show

[S0LINARI]

@wyattandy This sadly is too often the case. No one wants to know this stuff unless they are involved in using drugs or harm reduction. Could you imagine the backlash there would be if this was shown in school even in a chemistry class?

Fact of the matter is that it wouldn't even be an issue if we as a society had the correct attitude to drugs. I don't have the answers on how to go about it but i do know that the best evidence supports diamorphine assisted treatment as the way to treat addicts.

[carl1jefferson]

@wyattandy my best friend recently got addicted to heroin. i just wana know are you still addicted? and how has your life changed? im doing this tohelp my friend

[Jaffacake09]

I dont know nothing about heroin buit i thought this was an intresting video, and i think it is important to make videos such as these, well done. cld someone help me coz i dont quite get it. Why do u have to put the citric in the 1st place? In order to turn it into a liquid so u can use the drug?

[S0LINARI]

The video uses very high quality heroin base and adds under 1/4 of a sachet of citric. 97mg of pure diamorphine citrate comes back which makes it 74% pure.Its highly unlikely the average user will find higher purity brown heroin,if they do the absolute most they would have to use is 26% higher, i don't even think this is possible with brown.

Some citric sachets state that 100mg (1 sachet) can dissolve 1 gram of average street heroin, certainly 1/2 at the very least, check the math.

[S0LINARI]

This is mainly for UK brown heroin 3 base that requires an acid to dissolve unlike white heroin 4 that is in the hydrochloride salt.

One sachet for the average bag is far too much. Most users start smoking and encounter an IV user and learn from them but can often pick up bad technique until told otherwise. The video shows the best way to dissolve it, add the water first then the citric bit by bit.

[buddhistpaul]

why do people think that heroin is any worse than any other drug? I think that people need to be educated properely, People seem to think that there is a heirarchy of drugs, what an attitude lol. Oh i would never take heroin, oh but i would smoke cannabis! such a silly statement, uneducated people give rise to a heirarchy myth and continue the slang words like smackhead and junkie!!! Idiots. Thanks for great Harm reduction info. I am employed in the substance misuse field. thank you.

[sevastra444]

hm. i absolutely believe these vids are important. however, i will say, as someone with regrettable experience, that the level of physical dependence that accompanies heroin addiction far surpasses that of, at the very least, MOST other drugs. although, i do not agree with separating one opiate from another. any opiate in the right dose can produce parallel effects on both the high and the physical dependence. many heroin addictions start in the dr's office.

[maastona]

umm... "EVERY DRUG IS FROM SATAN." is what makes the weak minded, angsty teens take heavier drugs. Because the dealer has them.

I wish everyone who opts to take drugs would just study the drug they are taking. Drugs are good, people are stupid.

[DoyleawtDanzig]

rite thats wat i been saying people tend to forget how to use drugs

[compactdisk2]

Well, it's a little silly to say that cannabis and heroin are the same. While many of the problems caused by opiate addiction have more to do with the way that society looks at and treats addicts, that doesn't mean that the risks associated with cannabis and heroin are equal.

[rottweiler124]

putting info like this online (thats easily accessed ) is so important, thanks for the help

[Taxi502]

@rottweiler124 yea this is a wonderful video. i have a link to a video that shows u how to train pit bulls to bite babies faces off too if u want that...this is the stupidest fuckin video ive ever seen. all this video does is enable. its utterly useless n should be banned from you tube forever. it should simultaneously be replaced by a video that shows the pain families go thru from addiction n a reference on how to get into treatment. these 2 bozos know chemistry, not addiction

[BurntFlower0305]

Do all heroin users know to add citric acid? Is it like taught to them? Because I have never heard about it being used to cook up before.. I have never used IV drugs, but I have seen many youtube videos about it and on the show Intervention.

Thanks

[compactdisk2]

Citric acid is only necessary with heroin in its base form, which is common in the UK. Heroin HCL does not need an acid to dissolve, and that's what is more common in the US.

[JakeC08]

very interesting but when i used to be on gere i used a full sachet everytime and i found that i never used to get hardly anything from the heroin except it took my rattle away so would that be the reason then or would it just be the gere is rubbish ???

however after that i ditched the citric acid and went onto using vitamin C but i still got hardly anything from the heroin, but thats the main reason why i stopped using and very happy that i did :)

[S0LINARI]

I reopened comments awhile ago i disabled them because it was turning in to a drug debate and the word junkies and smack heads were being used, and i will not tolerate any of that.

Heroin use is something that happens all over the world, this is not about it drug use being right or wrong, nor is it about heroin being so much worse than other drugs. It's about the fact that without demand there would be no supply,since people are going to use anyway,we must reduce harm as much as possible.