ANCIENT HOPLITIKON PAKO FESTIVAL 2007 Swordsmanship display

[KrimzonKnight01]

I want that corinthian helmet!! where can I purchase one?

[insolvancy]

Greek Hoplites marching to war to the sound of a didgeridoo

[TheusZeusDeus]

Any armour over 10kg starts getting quite heavy and is not suitable for prolonged fighting. For example, heavy hoplite armours weighted a high maximum of 15kg, most of them were around 10 to 12kg. And these were worn only by the best trained soldiers that manned the first 3 rows of the phalanx whose role was to do the initial pushing (rather than flying around like ninjas or something!). When they would crush the opposite phalanx they would not go on chasing the opponent for... obvious reasons!

[TheusZeusDeus]

@TheusZeusDeus ....this was also the reason that battles among Greek states had usually relatively few casualties (and usually that was down to crushing during the initial pushing and stampede and to a second degree tot he ensuing short battle with spears, sometimes this on a bit looser formation!). Casualties in Greek battles at worst numbered 500-700 men of an overal army of 8,000 men. Romans who fought with non-phalanx tactics were losing 5,000 men out of a 15,000 army for breakfast.

[TheusZeusDeus]

@Prussianofilia Yes the link does not work, mate...

[elgostine]

@Prussianofilia link doesnt work unfortunately

[elgostine]

craig? is that craig from manning imperial?

[elgostine]

@Prussianofilia dendra is a mycenean armour suit for charioteers

[TheusZeusDeus]

@elgostine There have been made 2 reconstructions of Dendra armour - 1 I think from an Australian guy. The guys that tested it said that no matter the weight, the flexibility (similar to the later similar Roman lorica segmentata) meant that the Dendra armour could be used even on land, albeit for as long as fatigue did not come into plan!

[elgostine]

@TheusZeusDeus yes, dan howard mentioned however that the large ring gorget made moving ALOT harder

[TheusZeusDeus]

@elgostine Yes, I found again his comments. His reconstruction weighted around 25kg (personally I would think of a weight around 18-20kg but then Dan must had made some research over it). He tested it and it seemed to him more of an armour of a chariot driver or a chariot archer. I can imagine that even at a "lighter" 18kg, this armour would still be not the best for flex-fighting thus Dan's view finds me OK, let alone it being the result of actual testing.

[soNofLeoniDasandLas]

@nivenheim The Scythians dressed differently

[soNofLeoniDasandLas]

@Prussianofilia do not forget Romans copied everything from the Greeks , but did not copy right, the Greek armor , and dress was higher quality than the Romans, as was the temples etc. Even the city of Rome originally was built by the Etruscans who were Pelasgian Greeks, they run the city for over a hundred years before the people from Latium took it , and impose their Latin language .

[australbanian]

@soNofLeoniDasandLas You are not ancient Greek. You are a gaylord from antiquity. A son of a bitch. A goat herder, wanderer, faggot.

[soNofLeoniDasandLas]

@australbanian hahaha the gaylord albanian speaks , showing his bigotry, and muslim fanatisism ..JERK

[australbanian]

@soNofLeoniDasandLas

Get ready to tumble, mudda fukka. Your economy is in a nose dive. Don't forget to write home, gaylord. Athena is going to self-destruct.

[TheusZeusDeus]

@australbanian Albanians will not stop ridiculing themselves...even an Albanian that went hungy to Australia cannot mind on his own business but has still to repeat to the world how he feels complexes of inferiority in front of Greeks. Poor little fella...

[australbanian]

@TheusZeusDeus

Zeus's home was Illyria. The Oracle of Dodoni. 500k pseudo Greeks reside in Australie? Who went hungry, mudda fukka?

[TheusZeusDeus]

@australbanian Albanians are newcomers in Balkans and their presence is NOT attested more than 1000 years. Any other proposition is residing purely in the realm of fantasy and Albanians are a nation of galloping imagination to imagine they are anyhow related to our civilisation.

Now stop suffering from complexes of inferiority and get out of threads related to Greeks. Occupy with your own culture or lack of it.....

[australbanian]

@TheusZeusDeus

The home of Zeus is Dodoni in Southern Epirus. No Slavic pseudo Greek ever ventured there until the late 6th century. The characteristic of the Albanian is identical to that of Illyrians. Greeks were trinket makers not conquerors. Ancient Greece died after the Roman annexation, hence your colloquial greeting to call each other bastard. Eat a dick now, mudda fukka. "Cause Albanian is taking back Southern Epirus, one way or the other, cunt.

[australbanian]

@TheusZeusDeus

The home of Zeus is Dodoni in Southern Epirus. No Slavic pseudo Greek ever ventured there until the late 6th century. The characteristic of the Albanian is identical to that of Illyrians. Greeks were trinket makers not conquerors. Ancient Greece died after the Roman annexation, hence your colloquial greeting to call each other bastard. Eat a dick now, mudda fukka. "Cause Albanian is taking back Southern Epirus, one way or the other, cunt.

[TheusZeusDeus]

@australbanian Albanians had the chance to occupy the greek region of north Epirus because Italians geopolitics (and British behind them) did not want Greeks near the Otranto. That does not makes Albanians anyhow related to Epirus no matter how much you dream of expansion. Albanians the only thing they will take is a big Greek dick in their ass like they ALWAYS did whenever they came down to Greece to try to loot (never by themselves but following the Ottomans and then the fascists and nazis).

[TheusZeusDeus]

@australbanian Now stop embarassing yourself, don't you ever get tired of jumping out to say something stupid and receiving a dick in your mouth each time? If you keep on doing this people will think that you like eating dicks in your mouth...

[australbanian]

@TheusZeusDeus

Pseudo Greeks are famous for being gaylords on the island of Mykonos.

[goldenkro]

i wish i could do stuff like that, twould be koo

[cwmyr]

@nivenheim: Na, they were thraikian peltasts, very common mercenaries in hellenic armies

[TalingBards1]

très jolie costume mais le combat est ridicule, autant le posé le bouclier^^

[MooseHunter911]

the helmet at 1:05 is really beautiful!

[GPlinthon]

@Prussianofilia (hehe, je parle français mais je suis Grec). Dendra Armor is just one of the many examples, it is a quite heavy-style lorica segmentata covering down to the knees more like a late medieval armour. Other types such as the ones found in Thebes, were even more close to the Roman lorica segmentata (even at the width of the plates).

It seems that the design is millenia old and that it circulated throughout Greece, Minor Asia, western Mesopotamia, Danube and Central Europe before Rome

[soNofLeoniDasandLas]

@GPlinthon Greeks settled from 1600 B,C. in many areas of Europe before they were Countries as we know them today, ancient Greek bronze cups were found were Germany is today, Greeks had gone to Denmark, as far back as 1.600 B.C., and they had gone around Scotland . They settled Ireland 765 B.C. ,and Tuscany . Greeks had settled in every European Country , that is the reason we are 26 million instead of 140 million. Many Europeans have Greek in their ancestry and don't even know it .

[GPlinthon]

So while politically there is an unquestionable Roman superiority on the basis of which their Empire was built, in military tactical terms, the Roman legions were actually very badly performing, at least against Greeks (who - to be noted - back then were not in their best shape, suffering civil strife, civil wars, treasons etc..).

To be noted, that under the Roman Empire, much of Greece (Athens, Sparta, Achaia etc.) was not even part of the Empire but still having a status of "ally".

[GPlinthon]

... still Romans could not just invade and conquer (why didn't they do it if they were so good?), they had to wait for 40 years to send again a new army and give another battle, which was a repeat as again traitors in the cavalry sabotaged the effort of the Macedonian king - to be noted, bribing the cavalry was also the main reason Romans won against Carthage at Zuma.

Still 10 years later, a local rebel beat Romans 2ice and Romans had to transfer huge armies to suppress all north Greece.

[GPlinthon]

When they attacked at Cynos Cephalae in 197 B.C. half of Greeks were backing the Romans including Thessalians, neighbours of Macedonians!!! Still Roman legionaires could do absolutely nothing against the long pikes phalanxes, and they finally accidentally (or not so...) prevailed when the companion cavalry, made out of aristocrats disenchanted with the king, betrayed and abandoned the battle in the most crucial moment thus turning the tides.

Still Romans were unable to do more.

[GPlinthon]

@Prussianofilia Actually Lorica Segmentata is a much more ancient design than what people think, much more ancient than later hoplite armours. In fact it was well spread throughout Greece in the... Mycenean age prior to 1400 B.C. i.e. much prior to the alledged date of the Trojan war (at 1200 B.C.), and 1500 years prior to its re-apparition in the Roman army, taken by Celts who had maintained that very ancient type of armour.

[SpartanOfAmerica1234]

this is my idea of a job. Just Re-Displaying history.

[DaysonBrillet]

thats cool.



[the26thhour]

I could never do this, every time I spar with friends in just hand to hand, I eventually get carried away & hurt them, so I'll be buggered if I'm going to do it with real weapons!

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON]

@the26thhour that is your choice ! Play by the rules of engagement and everyone can still have fun and be safe too!

[ReTleD]

SLowww

[PresidentDRCI]

can anyone tell me where I can find some of that Armour! I've always wanted to be part of that!

[nalgaface123456789]

theres this website called a1armory that has all that kind of stuff and from what i can tell its pretty cheap compared to others

[PresidentDRCI]

5 people must never have seen one of these in person! praise the gods for Greece!

[EzKrispy]

Fake

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON]

@EzKrispy You are the 'TURD' beneath my sandal !

[EzKrispy]

@ANCIENTHOPLITIKON

Rather be a turd than a big fat phony

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON]

@EzKrispy laught it up funny boy, your still a 'TURD !'

[OMGWTFBBQ357]

nice armours, the only problem i have with this reenactment, is that without useing the shields, you arnt really displaying how they fought, it kinda seems like medieval movies with swords bashing against swords, a propper reenactment would show shields taking almost every sword blow and even bashing it into the oponent, while the sword is focused on the kill. If the shields are too expensive to damage you should only display them, then switch them out with cheaper ones for the fights.

[Testosteron250]

Nice vid..Would other tunic color than red be inaccurate for an obviously late 6th early 5th century hoplite? And would the absence of an upper part of that tunic be inaccurate as well.(because of the heat it is hard to imagine Greek fighting in 30+C in summer with heavy bronze armor using something completely unnecessary yet potentially hazardous like tunic that covers whole upper part of the body,and I see pottery that shows only groin covered by tunic especially in this period)

[KrimzonKnight01]

holy shit! i f'ing love hoplites, i have been wanting to buy hoplite armor but i cant find anything i like. that guys is EPIC! where would i be able to purchase something like that, except i would like something more spartan, like maybe with a yellow, red and black plume?

[rbscatter98]

i think hoplite or watever armor would look cooler if it was a little beat up and dirty i know thats retartd i just hate seeing it looking right outa the box lol sorry

[SpnOptimus2011]

1:11 is a Spartan Warlord ... the helmet and the full armored gear proofs that... if those guys were still exist when Romans attacked Greeks things will be different...

[OMGWTFBBQ357]

@SpnOptimus2011 The Spartans still existed when the romans attacked, but they no longer were a strong enough power to be any real threat to rome, too much war had weakend sparta. The domiant power in Greece was macedon at that time, but with a really badly chosen battleground for the phalanx and with only half the army in position, the macedonian king gambelled all, and lost badly to the flexible legion's of Rome.

[SpnOptimus2011]

@OMGWTFBBQ357 exactly and let me add please tha Greeks had more than 3 opportunities to push back Romans but those Minor Asia- Kingdoms fail epic. Especialy the mighty Seleucid Empire...

[GPlinthon]

@SpnOptimus2011 After 2000 years of Romano-philia it is difficult to set the record straight. Romans NEVER beat Greeks militarily/tactically. Despite brandishing more than 250,000 soldiers (i.e. an army 5 times than the strongest Greek state, that was Macedonian kingdom), they managed to prevail over a hugely long period of more than 200 years and only after having as allied pretty much the 60% of Greeks against the rest 40%, taking them 1 by 1 not all together.

[GPlinthon]

@GPlinthon Most battles where Romans fought against Greeks, in reality half the Roman ranks were actually allied Greek hoplites. Legionaries were mentioned in most battles as performing particularly badly against Greeks losing numerous more men than what they should given the circumstances. Particularly in the wars against the Macedonian kingdom, Romans had lost initialy 4 battles but as they had 5 times more army they kept sending more and more, bit by bit.

[Erik1495]

the shield could be done with a plate of a satellite TV plate just paint it and its´cheap even the size is the correct and you find those in the trash all the time

[Arkapok81]

well done guys, you all look really good and if im ever down that way i'ld love to come to a display or training session. I have one curious question though, why wasn't the shield used at all during the combat display ???

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

@Arkapok81 the simple reason is, it gets very expensive to keep making up new shields! For eg. if you bought a Ferrari, and if you were stupid enough to drive it into a wall, 'would you?' Now, if your interested in seeing us, contact us via our website and we will set you in the right direction for reenactment purposes.

[Arkapok81]

@ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st Yeah buddy I do get you about the expense thing, I've been doing re-enactment and swordsmanship for about 10 years now and I'm afraid to think of how much I've spent :O

[Erik1495]

@ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st the shield could be done with a plate of a satellite TV plate just paint it and its´cheap even the size is the correct and you find those in the trash all the time

[timpiglia]

@ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st A ferrari is not meant for fighting. rough up the shield a bit, give it some more character.

[timpiglia]

@ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st A ferrari is not meant for fighting. rough up the shield a bit, give it some more character.

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON]

@timpiglia why don't your buy your own shield and rough it up ? If you got lots of money, go right ahead ! Armour is expensive and your advice though not welcomed, means nothing in the end ! So on your bike Armchair General.......................­...............

[ifartinurdirection1]

Hmmmm if this is a Hoplite festival whats with the roman legionair and roman velite

I can't wait to get my own hoplite and roman armor

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

GEEEEEEEE'SSSS, We have Greek and Roman Empires to show contrast!!!!!!

[ifartinurdirection1]

ya i noticed that further down after i posted sry

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

You are right! But we are at a festival were both Greek and Roman Empires are show cased to an ignorant public. Hope that satisfies you curiosity?

[Piotrasdabadman91]

loved the thracian/phrygian helmet with the awesome feathers at 0:29

[jesuskopp]

Looks like a kali fighting pattern?

We call it sum bra ta, or box pattern?

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

No need, it was a short display, no reason to destroy the shield for on lookers! It's like buying a Rolls Royce and driving it into a wall........Same thing with Greek Armour, it's too expensive to destroy for the publics amusement !!!!!!!

[Stebilios]

Sure, I understand, but it did look a bit funny when he held it behind his back :)

[randomguy412]

Why not make a couple cheap shields out of wood for use in the fighting demonstrations? That way you don't have to risk damaging the real shields.

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

between making the good or cheap shields, it depends on the public demand and the time and budget to produce them is a factor. However, over time this will happen, just not right now................

[doippa123]

so it wont really display the combat that it would have been like then... basically knock the other combatant down with the shield and stab him and roll-on

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

Hoplites are not "Gladiator's", I think you've been watching too many marshal art movies to give you the impression that we conform to Hollywood.

[varangianguard01]

wow man the centurions kit looks crappy wrong segmentata and helmet

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

HOPLITES are greek and Anglo-saxon and yes the Polemarchos ine Ellinas!

[egw19]

Οι οπλιτες να φανταστω ειναι Ελληνες?

Ο τυπος στο 1:07 ο Σπαρτιατης πολεμαρχος για παραδειγμα ,ειναι Ελληνας?

[egw19]

Are you Greeks there or Australians ?

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

GREEKS & AUSTRALIANS TOGETHER!

[whowantsabighug]

i love the octopus shield, any specific region?

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

The Octopus shield device is distinctly from one region in Greece, and it comes from Eretria !

[whowantsabighug]

another question about shields: does the gorgon face come from corinth like ive heard people say? or is it just an 'all round' shield design?

[Spartiatai300]

I believe that they were common, the Spartans used it as a emblem of one of their Mora(regiments), that same mora was stationed in Sparta.

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

This is true, but other Greek hoplites sported the popular Gorgon as well !

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

Gorgon shield devices were common through out Mainland Greece. In particular to tribal / klan based hoplite citizens, they were a popular device among the warrior elite.

[assassininja18]

@whowantsabighug The octopus shield was traditionally associated with Eretria

[ANCIENTHOPLITIKON1st]

EFHARISTO !

[SEIRIOSMAN]

ΟΤΙ ΚΑΙ ΝΑ ΠΩ ΘΑΝΑΙ ΛΙΓΟ.ΕΥΓΕ ΣΕ ΟΛΟΥΣ ΤΟΥΣ ΦΙΛΟΥΣ.Ο ΠΟΛΕΜΑΡΧΟΣ ΠΑΝΤΩΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΤΟ ΚΑΤΙ ΑΛΛΟ.