This is not an attempt to send spam across the net, but an attempt to help people who really and truly need to see this. I know my life would have been better if i found this a year ago. I hope all who could use this wil see it and know of its Truth by the Spirit of God. And those who wish not to partake need not, for we have the agency to choose. Even so, amen.
I have seen this 15 times now and would like to invite all who wish to view and comment and ask concerning this video. This has given me strength to overcome so much in so little a time. I invite all who see this message to ask any questions they feel in their heart, and know they will be answered with love. I invite all who see this to like and share it as well.
@benjaminsherlock I was a missionary and had the audio on CD when we had the video. Umm, I'd ask the missionaries, I'd bet they'll find it. Missionaries have all those cool hard to find stuff
@spencerwagner938 The Elder Holland talk is from a "talk given at the Provo (Utah) Missionary Training Center on 20 June 2000," some of which is printed in the March 2001 Ensign (easy to find on LDS dot ORG). I was actually looking for that talk when I found this by accident.
The torture of Christ meaning the atonement? hmmmm it is interesting how every christian faith uses Christ's sacrifice as a tool to help their members overcome sins and be a better person. I was there when Elder Holland gave this talk. Those who haven't felt and simply can't understand what he's speaking of will never come to know unless they have a willing heart to truly find out...amen chaous2000!
Ok, im sorry that you see it that way Boss. He uses this video because Christ was the PERFECT missionary. The perfect example of never giving up, never giving in. I don't know if you know, but a mission is not easy. There are so many temptations and walls and hurdles that young men and women have to over come. Sometimes it gets so hard that they want to give up because they think it is too hard. Well guess what, this is to lift up their hearts because it can never be as hard as Christ's.
How appalling that Elder Holland with his comfortable life, could use the torture of Christ to try retain people in his failing cult group. Notice how he slips in words like "retention" (he's talking about convert retention.) It's also clear that mission presidents have been getting a lot of hard questions from the poor young missionaries. The speech is an attempt to explain the slow down in church growth.
How appalling that bossendenwoodconvict with his comfortable life, with nothing else to do, but try to attack the faith of others, could mock the atonement of Christ by downplaying it, and trying to use it to troll others. Notice how he slips in words like "cult" (he's doesn't know the definition of the word.) It's also clear that bossendenwoodconvict has been butt hurt some time in the past. The speech is an attempt to recover his pride, but he doesn't realize that pride is of the devil.
@KairosDrasis Is it not true though that mormons believe other churches have no authority to baptise? Don't they believe they are "The only true church" and therefore imply others are less true?
Doesn't mormonism teach that the atonement only guarantees resurection, and not full salvation?
Downplaying the atonement, attacking the faith of others- surely it's all there in mormonism?
For your first question, Yes. We can plainly see that some church are more correct and less correct than others. If one church teaches certain things about faith, and the other does not, one of them has to be wrong. To say that all churches teach only correct doctrine is simply incorrect. We can see thousands of denominations and thousands of ideas. Which one is right? That's what we have to prayerfully find out.
As for authority Priesthood is mentions frequently in the bible. Priesthood is the authority to act in God's name. Priesthood is required for ordinances such as baptism. This authority is talked about in acts. Most christian denominations are a split off of the Catholic church. The Catholic church, in turn, excommunicated the "dissenters" who split off. So simply we can see, that the priesthood line is broken there. It either the Catholic's have it, or there is a lost of priesthood earlier
We believe that though a prophet of God, the priesthood is restored. God used prophets from the beginning of time, all the way up to the end of the new testament... why did they stop?
The priesthood authority to baptize has to be received from somewhere and you can't just go out and buy it (Acts 8:18-20).
Resurrection is guaranteed: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." -1 Corinthians 15:22
But salvation must be earned. Without the atoning sacrifice of our Savior Jesus Christ, no one could be saved. but he has made it possible, not forced. We must repent, as it says in the bible.
"[no] unclean person... hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God" -Ephesians 5
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. " - James 2
As for faith vs works, alma 5 is a really good chapter to explain that if you will read.
Finally, No group of people are perfect. There are some of other faiths that attack mormonism. There are some of mormonism that attack other faiths. We must see that no one is perfect except for Christ and there will be mistakes made and offense given.
IMO @KairosDrasis shouldn't have said that, cause the LDS belief is that contention is of the devil.
@TachisAlopex Thanks. It makes sense that faith without works is dead as mormons say. Lack of works suggests lack of faith. However we find examples of people saved without any works or religious affiliation, like the thief on the cross. You are correct to say the priesthood line is broken. This is explained in detail from Hebrews 7 onwards. We learn Christ's priesthood is superior to the Aaronic Priesthood which is now lost. Basically Christ put the priests out of a job.
our faith would disagree that there are any examples of people saved without works. As for the thief on the cross, we do not know if he had preformed the necessary works before his execution. Also Mormons believe that once we die, we do not immediate get sorted into a heaven/hell. We believe in a resurrection and a judgment, but it isn't judgment day yet. After we die, our spirit separates from our body, the spirit waiting in a place the we call the spirit world
And the spirit world is separated into two categories: Spirit Paradise, and Spirit Prison. Paradise is where the repentant go, Prison, the unrepentant. That is where we belief the thief on the cross went. Not into heaven, but in a waiting period. In that period he must repent of his sins, and have all of the necessary works preformed
The best way I can explain faith vs works is that baptism is a work. It is an ordinance that has to be preformed with faith.
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." - John 3:5
"born of water" is baptism. Baptism is something you do, and is something that is required.
@TachisAlopex Yes, our works are performed with faith. I wouldn't argue with that one. But I've often wondered about people who are in lying in hospital and cannot be baptised. This must be where God's grace comes in.
This is where the mormon belief of Baptisms for the Dead come in. We believe that one can stand in and accomplish the necessary salvational ordinances for those who have passed on, and they can either accept or reject them.
I just wanted to thank TachisAlopex and Bossendenwoodconvict for having a civil conversation. I appreciate it a lot.
Where can you find the audio of Elder Hollands talk? I've found it a number of years ago so I know it can be found but does anyone know where?
dragitz 3 months ago
This is not an attempt to send spam across the net, but an attempt to help people who really and truly need to see this. I know my life would have been better if i found this a year ago. I hope all who could use this wil see it and know of its Truth by the Spirit of God. And those who wish not to partake need not, for we have the agency to choose. Even so, amen.
GamerM13 4 months ago
I have seen this 15 times now and would like to invite all who wish to view and comment and ask concerning this video. This has given me strength to overcome so much in so little a time. I invite all who see this message to ask any questions they feel in their heart, and know they will be answered with love. I invite all who see this to like and share it as well.
GamerM13 4 months ago
I loved that message. Would you please send the the audio or the link to the actual audio file. Thanks! Norm
nrupp801 4 months ago
Never mind....Its "Act in all Diligence"
pistolp0440 6 months ago
Comment removed
pistolp0440 6 months ago
how did you get the audio of Elder Holland's talk to the mission presidents. I've looked all over!
benjaminsherlock 9 months ago
@benjaminsherlock I was a missionary and had the audio on CD when we had the video. Umm, I'd ask the missionaries, I'd bet they'll find it. Missionaries have all those cool hard to find stuff
DaddyCrossett 2 months ago
Does anyone know when these two talks were delivered?
spencerwagner938 10 months ago
@spencerwagner938 The Elder Holland talk is from a "talk given at the Provo (Utah) Missionary Training Center on 20 June 2000," some of which is printed in the March 2001 Ensign (easy to find on LDS dot ORG). I was actually looking for that talk when I found this by accident.
7roach 9 months ago
Wow, there actually was a civil conversation here. Kudos. Mucho respect.
MrAlyoshaKaramazov 10 months ago
The torture of Christ meaning the atonement? hmmmm it is interesting how every christian faith uses Christ's sacrifice as a tool to help their members overcome sins and be a better person. I was there when Elder Holland gave this talk. Those who haven't felt and simply can't understand what he's speaking of will never come to know unless they have a willing heart to truly find out...amen chaous2000!
brianmcameron 1 year ago
Ok, im sorry that you see it that way Boss. He uses this video because Christ was the PERFECT missionary. The perfect example of never giving up, never giving in. I don't know if you know, but a mission is not easy. There are so many temptations and walls and hurdles that young men and women have to over come. Sometimes it gets so hard that they want to give up because they think it is too hard. Well guess what, this is to lift up their hearts because it can never be as hard as Christ's.
chaous2000 1 year ago
How appalling that Elder Holland with his comfortable life, could use the torture of Christ to try retain people in his failing cult group. Notice how he slips in words like "retention" (he's talking about convert retention.) It's also clear that mission presidents have been getting a lot of hard questions from the poor young missionaries. The speech is an attempt to explain the slow down in church growth.
bossendenwoodconvict 1 year ago
How appalling that bossendenwoodconvict with his comfortable life, with nothing else to do, but try to attack the faith of others, could mock the atonement of Christ by downplaying it, and trying to use it to troll others. Notice how he slips in words like "cult" (he's doesn't know the definition of the word.) It's also clear that bossendenwoodconvict has been butt hurt some time in the past. The speech is an attempt to recover his pride, but he doesn't realize that pride is of the devil.
KairosDrasis 1 year ago
@KairosDrasis Is it not true though that mormons believe other churches have no authority to baptise? Don't they believe they are "The only true church" and therefore imply others are less true?
Doesn't mormonism teach that the atonement only guarantees resurection, and not full salvation?
Downplaying the atonement, attacking the faith of others- surely it's all there in mormonism?
bossendenwoodconvict 1 year ago
@bossendenwoodconvict
For your first question, Yes. We can plainly see that some church are more correct and less correct than others. If one church teaches certain things about faith, and the other does not, one of them has to be wrong. To say that all churches teach only correct doctrine is simply incorrect. We can see thousands of denominations and thousands of ideas. Which one is right? That's what we have to prayerfully find out.
TachisAlopex 1 year ago
As for authority Priesthood is mentions frequently in the bible. Priesthood is the authority to act in God's name. Priesthood is required for ordinances such as baptism. This authority is talked about in acts. Most christian denominations are a split off of the Catholic church. The Catholic church, in turn, excommunicated the "dissenters" who split off. So simply we can see, that the priesthood line is broken there. It either the Catholic's have it, or there is a lost of priesthood earlier
TachisAlopex 1 year ago
@bossendenwoodconvict
We believe that though a prophet of God, the priesthood is restored. God used prophets from the beginning of time, all the way up to the end of the new testament... why did they stop?
The priesthood authority to baptize has to be received from somewhere and you can't just go out and buy it (Acts 8:18-20).
TachisAlopex 1 year ago
As for the atonement:
Resurrection is guaranteed: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." -1 Corinthians 15:22
But salvation must be earned. Without the atoning sacrifice of our Savior Jesus Christ, no one could be saved. but he has made it possible, not forced. We must repent, as it says in the bible.
"[no] unclean person... hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God" -Ephesians 5
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. " - James 2
TachisAlopex 1 year ago
@bossendenwoodconvict
As for faith vs works, alma 5 is a really good chapter to explain that if you will read.
Finally, No group of people are perfect. There are some of other faiths that attack mormonism. There are some of mormonism that attack other faiths. We must see that no one is perfect except for Christ and there will be mistakes made and offense given.
IMO @KairosDrasis shouldn't have said that, cause the LDS belief is that contention is of the devil.
Anyways, hope this helps
^_^
TachisAlopex 1 year ago
@TachisAlopex Thanks. It makes sense that faith without works is dead as mormons say. Lack of works suggests lack of faith. However we find examples of people saved without any works or religious affiliation, like the thief on the cross. You are correct to say the priesthood line is broken. This is explained in detail from Hebrews 7 onwards. We learn Christ's priesthood is superior to the Aaronic Priesthood which is now lost. Basically Christ put the priests out of a job.
bossendenwoodconvict 1 year ago
@bossendenwoodconvict
our faith would disagree that there are any examples of people saved without works. As for the thief on the cross, we do not know if he had preformed the necessary works before his execution. Also Mormons believe that once we die, we do not immediate get sorted into a heaven/hell. We believe in a resurrection and a judgment, but it isn't judgment day yet. After we die, our spirit separates from our body, the spirit waiting in a place the we call the spirit world
TachisAlopex 1 year ago
@bossendenwoodconvict
And the spirit world is separated into two categories: Spirit Paradise, and Spirit Prison. Paradise is where the repentant go, Prison, the unrepentant. That is where we belief the thief on the cross went. Not into heaven, but in a waiting period. In that period he must repent of his sins, and have all of the necessary works preformed
(I hate character limits)
TachisAlopex 1 year ago
@bossendenwoodconvict
The best way I can explain faith vs works is that baptism is a work. It is an ordinance that has to be preformed with faith.
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." - John 3:5
"born of water" is baptism. Baptism is something you do, and is something that is required.
TachisAlopex 1 year ago
@TachisAlopex Yes, our works are performed with faith. I wouldn't argue with that one. But I've often wondered about people who are in lying in hospital and cannot be baptised. This must be where God's grace comes in.
bossendenwoodconvict 1 year ago
@bossendenwoodconvict
This is where the mormon belief of Baptisms for the Dead come in. We believe that one can stand in and accomplish the necessary salvational ordinances for those who have passed on, and they can either accept or reject them.
I just wanted to thank TachisAlopex and Bossendenwoodconvict for having a civil conversation. I appreciate it a lot.
btfogelberg 1 year ago
@btfogelberg
A civil conversation of youtube! Impossible! Lets start cursing and bible bashing: 2 kings 2:23-25
TachisAlopex 1 year ago
@bossendenwoodconvict
btfogelberg couldn't of said it better. This is why we have temples.
TachisAlopex 1 year ago