Not all genres stay the same. Most specifically in the west where devs are continually blurring the line between what is rpg and what's not. Hell look at COD, yes its and FPS but it all so contains staple rpg elements such as unlocks and xp. Hell just look at Borderlands if you still think all genres are the same. Face it their is a reason Japan has fallen in the game market place since the early 2000s and that is a fact not just opinion. Thank you Deus Ex
I wish you would review/ update whats going on about jrpgs. I see a few titles, they are fun but not so much as I expected or I am getting old and will not enjoy any other game as I enjoyed Souikodens or FFs.
A lot of your arguments are quite valid, but I gotta say that I find fandom something very bad, as it promotes stagnation and going back to familiarity rather than pushing the boundaries of technology and originality.
Then again, it's not like I never came back to a certain franchise after liking one of it's game.
I am still waiting for that one great game though. Now that FF13 is out maybe some more games will hit the market. I'd like to seem some in Megami tensei games coming out a la Nocturn, digital devil saga, and the like. If you think bad every platform had that one game you loved nintendo = dragon warrior, super nintendo chrono trigger, N64= Ocarina of Time Ps1 = ff7, Ps2 ff10, Ps3 = ?
Sorry Final Fantasy 12 was weak. I completely understand what you are trying to say but man 12 was bad from my point of view. But hey I played the shit out of X2, loved 10, 8, and hated 9. I bought 13 and it's a great game. I wish Shadow Hearts would pick up again. 3 was really bad but 1 and 2 were good enough thatI hope they don't give up on the franchise
I love how people try to say that the jrpg genre is dying and then you see all these new, unique, and innovative jrpgs with evolved gameplay, namely, FFXIII, Resonance of Fate, Tales of Vesperia, Valkyria Chronicles. I include tales of vesperia because it was my first Tales game haha, and I loved it.
I agree with you everywhere except when you were saying that the jrpgs that come out prior to final fantasy titles are generally not up to final fantasy caliber. I do see this as true; however, rpgs that are released after final fantasy titles are generally not of that caliber either, which i thought weakened that part of your argument.
I love how you mention Persona 4, and not any otther Atlus JRPG. The reason that Final Fantasy sells is because Square-Enix are one of the few JRPG developers who have the budget to advertise the crap out of it. Game sales are less about good gameplay and more about advertising, if Modern Warfare 2 and GTA 4 are any indicators. This is true regardless of genre or platform.
Also, the PS3 and 360 are expensive to develop for, which is why a lot of JRPG companies are turning to the DS instead.
FPS have made leaps and bounds from last gen. The way they play online for instance. In one gen shooters went from onscreen coop to playing around the world. That is not even considering the sheer amount of tweaking it takes to make multiplayer balanced. Look at what Battlfield has done to shooters. You have mile long maps to play with. What has JRPGs done to that extent, Nothing. Of course you would not know any of this, You are playing by yourself in a JRPG.
Yes all genres have their chiches, but compare how western rpgs have evolved to how japanese rpgs have changed and there is a big difference. Same with shooters, they are all the same concept but there is a huge disparity between Battlefield and Halo. My point is JRPGS are all cut and paste jobs. Compare Mass Effect to Oblivion. They are both WRPGs but play completly different.
JRPGs lack variety. Also Final fantasy is not an idustry rocker like it once was. FF does not effect games anymore.
Yeah, I grew up on JRPGS on the PS one. Final Fantasy 1,2,7,8,9. Legend of Dragoon, Lunar 2 etc.
I then switched from JRPG player to shooters like COD, Battlefield, Gears, and Halo. This is because in all honesty JRPGS today are CRAP!
Sorry but it is the truth. I still love my old JRPGs and the bigger truth is WRPGs are a lot better. I know I will offend some people but this is the truth. Somewhere along the line JRPGs lost their originality.
Well I can't really argue. I got through most of the first .hack series and yes it's very repetitive. Pokemon and Demon's Souls have been the best lately and they're both arguably not true rpgs.
Actually Final Fantasy has been failing ever since the new gen of gaming started. The new team only produced three titles that were good. I let go of Final Fantasy after IX the developers are trying to change too much. With all that said yes I am one of the people who thinks FF7 is overrated and that it does not define rpgs. Yeah it was a good game but it's also the game that killed the industry for hardcore rpg players. I'll stick with my old school pc nes/snes early ps1 and dnd anyday.
Velocityeleven just posted this vid on his channel (giving due credit, of course) and I must say that this was one of the most well thought out vids I've ever seen on Youtube.
Thanks for making such an awesome vid. I just subbed.
I'm glad final fantasy takes ages to make their games, they take their job seriously and try to create the best quality games. I always expect the best from Square Enix.
haha, it's about time someone with a decent mind would say something like this, haters are the most hypocritical asshats I know, they say something sucks yet they don't even have the idea how hard it is to make rpg's
yea. all rpgs are either sci fi or fantasy. fallout was more dystopian future. the first fallout was amazing and innovative. the third is the most addicting game i played. i played for 6 hrs straight.
Sorry, but Shin Megami Tensei : Nocturne, Persona 3 , Persona 4 beat the living shit out of ANY Final Fantasy serie. Battle is more tactical, customization is more strategic ,relatable theme, endearing characters. There will be no turning back from SMT to Final Fantasy AT ALL. Mark my word.
yeah whatever, I've played Persona 4, it's alright, nothing great... I played Digital Devil Saga and I adore that game, yet I still love Final Fantasy, I still like Dragon Quest and I still like all my old games that I liked back in the day. Just because you find a new game that you like doesn't suddenly make the other games bad
Oh yeah but at 8:08, it's not THEIR perspective, it's the accumulation of shitloads of other people's ideas, hoping that if they repeat what they've read over and over, they'll be seen as a "non-generic critic with a keen sense of every tiny problem in a game."
Thanks for this..... I've been sending this message to forums around the net, and of course most people ended up hating me, but if at least one person was affected, I was happy. Good to know some people still think.
Also, for some reason people tend to oversimplify things when critiquing something they don't enjoy. "All you do in JRPG's is walk around, talk to people, buy shit, and fight monsters." Sounds pretty boring to me. However, I can apply gross oversimplification to just about anything and make it sound mundane. Take the game of basketball for instance. It's just ten guys bouncing a leather ball up and down a court and trying to throw it through a metal hoop. Again, all about the execution.
Great video. I think the reason genres don't change is because of the fear of losing their target audience. If someone took the formula of a JRPG and turned it on its head, they might attract a new audience, but they also risk alienating their target audience who have come to expect certain things from the genres they enjoy. Execution with a given formula is what will determine if a game will flourish or flop. The same could be said of anything really.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said, FroLogic, except I dont agree that Final Fantasy is that far ahead of the curve the way you describe it. Yes, the series is consistently good, but the same can be said of other RPG series. And I think there are many RPGs that were arguably better than the FF games at the time.
I think at the beginging when you compare games to final fantasy. I think the Tales of is EXTREMELY overlooked and should be on top of Final fantasy, Final Fantasy is dieing on me in the inside not just because that they make games that's bad but they keep on MAKING bad games.and 12 was HORRIBLE TO ME, not just because it's a final fantasy, but it was horrible as a game period. also you might wanna look at Disgaea. Other then that I believe you on the rest.
I give you a standing ovation. This is exactly what I've been trying to tell people for the last few years, but they don't hear my words when I'm telling em. Plus, this is the first video on youtube I've seen since I joined the site where someone could talk for more than 2 minutes and actually make enough sense (and humor) to get their point across, and get it across well. I hope every gamer on the internet sees this video.
I loved saga frontier, but saga frontier was terrible
Havetowaitandsee 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Great video, it really states (with humor) what people can´t listen, analyse or understand.
Rafaelanimes1983 1 month ago
JRPG's are dying. Deal with it...
s796h 5 months ago
Not all genres stay the same. Most specifically in the west where devs are continually blurring the line between what is rpg and what's not. Hell look at COD, yes its and FPS but it all so contains staple rpg elements such as unlocks and xp. Hell just look at Borderlands if you still think all genres are the same. Face it their is a reason Japan has fallen in the game market place since the early 2000s and that is a fact not just opinion. Thank you Deus Ex
BEOWULF9965 5 months ago
You're totally Yahtzee Croshaw's estranged twin brother coming down on the side of JRPGs. xD
Good video. filled with points I've been trying to explain to people who shun my games for years now.
benademusu495 5 months ago in playlist More videos from FroLogic
What are the name of the games at 1:27 and 1:28?
Heroinedown 8 months ago
14 people are spoony bards.
shadowclock12 10 months ago
great stuff will put
musspuss 1 year ago
I wish you would review/ update whats going on about jrpgs. I see a few titles, they are fun but not so much as I expected or I am getting old and will not enjoy any other game as I enjoyed Souikodens or FFs.
Hunhaar 1 year ago
A lot of your arguments are quite valid, but I gotta say that I find fandom something very bad, as it promotes stagnation and going back to familiarity rather than pushing the boundaries of technology and originality.
Then again, it's not like I never came back to a certain franchise after liking one of it's game.
CvijaFaQ 1 year ago
LOL SQUARE ENIX HAS MORE MONEY THAT GOD!!!!!!!!!!
IxCloudxIx 1 year ago
Jrpgs that I loved.
Final Fantasy 6
Chrono Trigger
Jrpgs that I'm excited for.
Final Fantasy Versus 13
Ni No Kuni (Level 5 + Studio Ghibli)
fearful7 1 year ago
I am still waiting for that one great game though. Now that FF13 is out maybe some more games will hit the market. I'd like to seem some in Megami tensei games coming out a la Nocturn, digital devil saga, and the like. If you think bad every platform had that one game you loved nintendo = dragon warrior, super nintendo chrono trigger, N64= Ocarina of Time Ps1 = ff7, Ps2 ff10, Ps3 = ?
lmcdowall 1 year ago
Sorry Final Fantasy 12 was weak. I completely understand what you are trying to say but man 12 was bad from my point of view. But hey I played the shit out of X2, loved 10, 8, and hated 9. I bought 13 and it's a great game. I wish Shadow Hearts would pick up again. 3 was really bad but 1 and 2 were good enough thatI hope they don't give up on the franchise
lmcdowall 1 year ago
@lmcdowall All we gotta do is wait for Final Fantasy 13 versus for the Ps3
ShinKajiX 1 year ago
2:14 Why does he have a guitar? Oh, god, don't tell me that's his weapon!
shadowclock12 1 year ago
I love how people try to say that the jrpg genre is dying and then you see all these new, unique, and innovative jrpgs with evolved gameplay, namely, FFXIII, Resonance of Fate, Tales of Vesperia, Valkyria Chronicles. I include tales of vesperia because it was my first Tales game haha, and I loved it.
cloudstrife1256 1 year ago
Gears of War rpg? anybody?
comicguitar 1 year ago
I agree with you everywhere except when you were saying that the jrpgs that come out prior to final fantasy titles are generally not up to final fantasy caliber. I do see this as true; however, rpgs that are released after final fantasy titles are generally not of that caliber either, which i thought weakened that part of your argument.
warkwarkchoco 1 year ago
Good rant!
TheRpgFanatic 1 year ago
your video was entertaining as fuck as well as refreshing, glad to know im not alone in my thinking. lol. good work.
gringbot 1 year ago
you sir are the man. people can all talk all they want, but people want the same thing, BUT complain how all genre games are the same...say WHAT?
Slash2891 2 years ago
Since most people don't play genres they don't like you inevitably end up with a lot of uninformed criticism.
Reginmund 2 years ago
they are just boring as fuck.
osbert 2 years ago
I love how you mention Persona 4, and not any otther Atlus JRPG. The reason that Final Fantasy sells is because Square-Enix are one of the few JRPG developers who have the budget to advertise the crap out of it. Game sales are less about good gameplay and more about advertising, if Modern Warfare 2 and GTA 4 are any indicators. This is true regardless of genre or platform.
Also, the PS3 and 360 are expensive to develop for, which is why a lot of JRPG companies are turning to the DS instead.
PublicSedeku 2 years ago
Whos the prick who made this? Outta get sodomized.
FabulousZero 2 years ago
Amen brother.
deftoned2 2 years ago
Awesome. (3x)
Thank you, dear sir, for putting this out there.
MaybeToki 2 years ago
5:10, Shooter have not evolved?
FPS have made leaps and bounds from last gen. The way they play online for instance. In one gen shooters went from onscreen coop to playing around the world. That is not even considering the sheer amount of tweaking it takes to make multiplayer balanced. Look at what Battlfield has done to shooters. You have mile long maps to play with. What has JRPGs done to that extent, Nothing. Of course you would not know any of this, You are playing by yourself in a JRPG.
m4a153 2 years ago
Yes all genres have their chiches, but compare how western rpgs have evolved to how japanese rpgs have changed and there is a big difference. Same with shooters, they are all the same concept but there is a huge disparity between Battlefield and Halo. My point is JRPGS are all cut and paste jobs. Compare Mass Effect to Oblivion. They are both WRPGs but play completly different.
JRPGs lack variety. Also Final fantasy is not an idustry rocker like it once was. FF does not effect games anymore.
m4a153 2 years ago
Yeah, I grew up on JRPGS on the PS one. Final Fantasy 1,2,7,8,9. Legend of Dragoon, Lunar 2 etc.
I then switched from JRPG player to shooters like COD, Battlefield, Gears, and Halo. This is because in all honesty JRPGS today are CRAP!
Sorry but it is the truth. I still love my old JRPGs and the bigger truth is WRPGs are a lot better. I know I will offend some people but this is the truth. Somewhere along the line JRPGs lost their originality.
Also Final fantasy is not a big deal anymore.
m4a153 2 years ago
Well I can't really argue. I got through most of the first .hack series and yes it's very repetitive. Pokemon and Demon's Souls have been the best lately and they're both arguably not true rpgs.
Sebenfell 1 year ago
Actually Final Fantasy has been failing ever since the new gen of gaming started. The new team only produced three titles that were good. I let go of Final Fantasy after IX the developers are trying to change too much. With all that said yes I am one of the people who thinks FF7 is overrated and that it does not define rpgs. Yeah it was a good game but it's also the game that killed the industry for hardcore rpg players. I'll stick with my old school pc nes/snes early ps1 and dnd anyday.
Faithintheword 2 years ago
jump the brick wall and say that this vid isnt great.
he merely pointed out what the NICHE obviously knows.
HakoneDrift 2 years ago
u suck at talking and cussing. youre welcome.
HakoneDrift 2 years ago
wow you really know how to talk
jungleman68 2 years ago
Your voice is really cool!
rm2kmidi 2 years ago 6
Velocityeleven just posted this vid on his channel (giving due credit, of course) and I must say that this was one of the most well thought out vids I've ever seen on Youtube.
Thanks for making such an awesome vid. I just subbed.
DemonmachinE 2 years ago
hey, it is alright if I upload this video on my channel? I will credit you of course, just to get this video out there (cause I like it (of course))
velocityeleven 2 years ago
Sure. By all means.
FroLogic 2 years ago
I'm glad final fantasy takes ages to make their games, they take their job seriously and try to create the best quality games. I always expect the best from Square Enix.
Can't wait until FFVSXIII comes out, and FFXIII
zombieiscool 2 years ago
HAHAHAHA omg that was so great! Tales of Symphonia will kick your ass and Square Enix does have more money than god.
Stormshadow17 2 years ago 2
6.43 awesome ^_^
and i played tales of symphonia, enjoyed every cliche second of it.
seriously take other things in perspective, puzzles, battles, bosses world and dungeon design and most important music and feeling of a game.
garfreeek 2 years ago
haha, it's about time someone with a decent mind would say something like this, haters are the most hypocritical asshats I know, they say something sucks yet they don't even have the idea how hard it is to make rpg's
zokamaru 2 years ago
i also disaree on ff 12. that had a terrible story led by terrible characters.
lor108avi 2 years ago
i agree, except for that pic of fallout. i like fallout, it steeres away from many cliches.
lor108avi 2 years ago
Are you sure about that?..
Anfegahz 2 years ago
yea. all rpgs are either sci fi or fantasy. fallout was more dystopian future. the first fallout was amazing and innovative. the third is the most addicting game i played. i played for 6 hrs straight.
lor108avi 2 years ago
Sorry, but Shin Megami Tensei : Nocturne, Persona 3 , Persona 4 beat the living shit out of ANY Final Fantasy serie. Battle is more tactical, customization is more strategic ,relatable theme, endearing characters. There will be no turning back from SMT to Final Fantasy AT ALL. Mark my word.
RampageEndsHere 2 years ago
yeah whatever, I've played Persona 4, it's alright, nothing great... I played Digital Devil Saga and I adore that game, yet I still love Final Fantasy, I still like Dragon Quest and I still like all my old games that I liked back in the day. Just because you find a new game that you like doesn't suddenly make the other games bad
velocityeleven 2 years ago 3
Oh yeah but at 8:08, it's not THEIR perspective, it's the accumulation of shitloads of other people's ideas, hoping that if they repeat what they've read over and over, they'll be seen as a "non-generic critic with a keen sense of every tiny problem in a game."
BrenAGC 2 years ago
Thanks for this..... I've been sending this message to forums around the net, and of course most people ended up hating me, but if at least one person was affected, I was happy. Good to know some people still think.
BrenAGC 2 years ago
lol, rite on morgan webb is NOT hot.
lor108avi 2 years ago
I LOVE YOU
cheesepower5 2 years ago
Also, for some reason people tend to oversimplify things when critiquing something they don't enjoy. "All you do in JRPG's is walk around, talk to people, buy shit, and fight monsters." Sounds pretty boring to me. However, I can apply gross oversimplification to just about anything and make it sound mundane. Take the game of basketball for instance. It's just ten guys bouncing a leather ball up and down a court and trying to throw it through a metal hoop. Again, all about the execution.
kefka004 2 years ago 7
Great video. I think the reason genres don't change is because of the fear of losing their target audience. If someone took the formula of a JRPG and turned it on its head, they might attract a new audience, but they also risk alienating their target audience who have come to expect certain things from the genres they enjoy. Execution with a given formula is what will determine if a game will flourish or flop. The same could be said of anything really.
kefka004 2 years ago 2
I made a Youtube account just to say how much i agree with you...
seriously, music to my ears hearing someone actually has some sense...
LuciferLiedToo 2 years ago
Finnaly some sense on the topic good video really enjoyed it
RealhandofGod 3 years ago 4
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said, FroLogic, except I dont agree that Final Fantasy is that far ahead of the curve the way you describe it. Yes, the series is consistently good, but the same can be said of other RPG series. And I think there are many RPGs that were arguably better than the FF games at the time.
Elazul0450 3 years ago 3
I agree with every point you make
velocityeleven 3 years ago 3
I think at the beginging when you compare games to final fantasy. I think the Tales of is EXTREMELY overlooked and should be on top of Final fantasy, Final Fantasy is dieing on me in the inside not just because that they make games that's bad but they keep on MAKING bad games.and 12 was HORRIBLE TO ME, not just because it's a final fantasy, but it was horrible as a game period. also you might wanna look at Disgaea. Other then that I believe you on the rest.
SolidEternalAbyss 3 years ago 2
Well I quite enjoyied XII,it is all opinion
stacatt 3 years ago 2
I give you a standing ovation. This is exactly what I've been trying to tell people for the last few years, but they don't hear my words when I'm telling em. Plus, this is the first video on youtube I've seen since I joined the site where someone could talk for more than 2 minutes and actually make enough sense (and humor) to get their point across, and get it across well. I hope every gamer on the internet sees this video.
djrerun01 3 years ago 5
'preciate the words. I'm glad you liked the video.
FroLogic 3 years ago