Colorado City, Warren Jeffs, Extorsion, Daughter/Eviction

[ectowle]

Where IS Lenore NOW? Her friends pray she is well and happy!

[sweetlynumb86]

polygamy is a sin..

[lindalds]

I'm surprised that, when this man "lost his priesthood" that the church didn't force HIM to leave and give that wife to another man.

[ElderJoseph]

Is this what they did in the early LDS church?

And what about in today.s LDS church If a man leaves the church because he realises its not true, will his wife be advised to marry another man ( priesthood holder) from the church?

[lindalds]

I don't think so, because the church tried to keep marriages together. If the couple wanted to stay together and try to make the marriage work, then no one bothered them, from what I can see.

No, this was a "Warren Jeffs" thing, to take another man's wives and children, and eliminate the competition, by getting as many men to leave and never come back, but still maintain their hold on that person.

[ElderJoseph]

How can the marriage work if the female is a Mormon and believes that she MUST be married to a worthy Priesthood Holder ? If her husband decides the church is false and just follows Joseph Smith and wants nothing to do with it, her LDS religion tells her that she won't be in Celestial Kingdom if her husband doesn't believe anymore.

Would she not then be influenced by LDS theology and Doctrine to divorce him and try find one who still believes in Joseph Smith and his claims.

[itsrachelbreh]

If a woman is worthy of hte Celestial Kingdom, it doesn't matter if her husband stops believing. I think if she can keep the marriage together in spite of that, she's much more worthy than if she leaves him just because he no longer believes.

[ElderJoseph]

I agree with you. Unfortunataly though, Mormon Theology and those who take it very serious will react to the extreme.

Mormonism is a fanatical religion for the most part.

It doesn't matter how members like to think they are, Mormonism makes them into personalities they would rather not be if only they could see themselves for what the church has turned them into.

I know from experience.

[lindalds]

I suppose that it can be that way, if you are around Mormons almost exclusively. I lived in Utah for three or so years, and could see how it's SO much different there than in other places, especially here out east. it's a little harder to get fanatical or whatever when you aren't the majority, or even close. When your nearest Mormon neighbor could be an hour's drive away.

And, IMHO, it's no worse than any other Christian denomination, and better than some.

[ifautumnends]

In the Bible, doesn't it say that a married couple should not be 'unequally yoked'?

[ElderJoseph]

''by getting as many men to leave and never come back''

Interesting. Did you know that Joseph Smith would call men away on missions and then propose marriage to their wives while they were gone?

He married around 11 wives of other men.

[lindalds]

Jeffs and his cronies didn't send anyone on missions. He just summarily excommunicated any man he didn't like, and took their wives.

He summarily excommunicated somewhere between 400 and 1000 teen age boys, I would imagine because he didn't want the competition. Teen age girl kisses teen age boy. Teen age boy is ex'd, teen age girl is now wife # 20 and pregnant before her next birthday, to her next door neighbor or even her step-father.

[ElderJoseph]

Why did 14 year old teen Girl Helen Marr Kimball become Joseph Smiths 25th or so polygamous wife, Were there no boys near her own age. Smith was 37 at the time.

Sounds a bit Warren Jeffs style to me, a 37 year old man recruiting a 14 year old girl into polyagmy this way.

What about Smith marrying the wives of some men sent away on missions?

[lindalds]

According to Helens' journal, she was sealed to him, he returned her to her father, and she wasn't even allowed to go to his house with other young people after that. He never touched her, from what I can see.

I don't know about the other, but most of the women he was sealed to , not married to. There really is no evidence that he ever slept with most of hte women he was sealed to.

[lindalds]

from what I've read, Jeffs or another higher on the food chain, would excommunicate some hapless man for unnamed reasons. When he asked why, they said you know, and to pray about it, and write them down, and give them to Jeffs or Jessop or whomever, and ask for forgiveness, but if they did that, that would be held over them and no forgiveness and by the time they figured out that it was just to get his wives and especially his daughters, it was too late.

[ElderJoseph]

Have you ever read about how Brigham Young and others behaved with respect to polygamy?

Did you know he threatened the LDS girls with Hell to get them to submit to his arranged polygamous marriages and usually of very young girls to very old men?

Orson Pratt married and concieved at once with a 16 year old polygamously this way. He was 57 years old at the time.

The FLDS are very close to the original church.

You ever read the case of Zina Huntington Jacobs?

[lindalds]

One thing, tho, in BY's time, only about 3-5% of men and about 25% of the entire LDS population was involved in some way with plural marriage. That doesn't sound like Jeffs way.

And, Jeffs has something that BY never did: Government welfare.

BY gave each of his wives their own house, in their name, a few years before he died. None of them ever remarried. Even the younger ones who could have still had children by another husband.

[twinkletoesnostalgia]

i understand now why the elders are not allowed to listen or watch tv or read papers while on their mission. i was informed thats jeffs stepped down, in reality jeffs was jailed. fuckin pig men. palygamy was not ment for this. young girls being forced into marriage.... just as bad as the kuran. there was a war, men looked after their commerads wives for them. atleast this is what elder dallas briggs informed me this summer in ontario while on his mission.

[popstarwannabe94]

i'm charity. i miss my mom. i didn't know her when this video was taken. she isn't at all like this anymore. she just sits there all day and stares at the wall. i wish i knew her then. she speaks in full sentences.

[fincenMIB]

Hello Charity

Your mother was a going machine when the fight was in front of her. Activism made each day worth fighting for. Once she won the eviction case in Kingman, its was downhill after that.

I mostly knew your sister Justine because she was the age of my daughter and a few times they got together. How is Milton?

[popstarwannabe94]

ya thats what my grandma tells me. that she use to be really awesome.

ya justine is probably the most awesome sister i have ever had. she is doing alot with her life, you should get a hold of here and talk to her. milton isn't doing very good. i am really mad at him though, from all the stuff that he has put us through.

[fincenMIB]

I will PM a response

[mathmexican4234]

omg, fuckin, we dont need to be making that many babies, to replace a mom and dad on earth you just need 2, but to be safe and account for early deaths you might see 3 as a safe number, but still, thats not 13

[fincenMIB]

It wasn't easy, Lenore's husband lost his job with his brothers, his standing in his church and was shunned, when Lenore told Sam Barlow and Warren Jeffs her daughter Nichole was to young to become Wynn Jessops second wife. Women just KEPT SWEET, they never challenged the PRIESTHOOD back then, but Lenore started a trend that caught on with many girls and women who later left.

It was maybe 4 months back when I spoke o Milton & Lenore, still fighting for custody, to complicated now!

[popstarwannabe94]

so you got a hold of them? i told you that my parents are completely different people than they were. it's so stupid. the world would be sooo much better off if polygamy had never happened... but i wouldn't be here. it all sucks.

[fincenMIB]

I felt everything was best when your mother was still fighting for her rights to stay. Once she won that right, her drive and purpose was lost. The police chase and a nervous breakdown changed her. Its a sad chapter in this story.

[clifffan3]

Its disgusting poor woman and poor kids

[AzBirdDog]

Poor me, you mean!

Now I know why Uncle Sam hit's my checks so much now!

And yours too, buddy!

[syevie]

those poor kids. her religion controls her, does she know that. she could have a life away from a whitetrash trailer, a good life for these children, free. Get a life people, do not let others control you.

[popstarwannabe94]

thats my mom. or how she used to be. i wish i had known her better then. she really screwed up! why did she have so many kids? but i wouldn't be able to live without any of them.

[kwhit1516]

It not cheating lol ok why dont get job stop liveing off the tax payers also i tellyou one thing if someone took my 15 year old daug married her off to old pervet i hurt them

[MSFIRECRACKER]

I bet she has to fake her abs after having 13 children. Hope everything works out for them, though.

[hiimallen]

fincenMIB REAL crusade:

"I could have traded something better than carpet for the girl!"

[hiimallen]

I had 32 siblings, and I would not have traded my childhood for your childhood plus a million dollars.

[cyrex94]

13children, who pays for them, the poor old taxpayers

why does she think they want her to have lots of kids, new wives for the old men

How can you let yourself be dictated to by one person, you don't want 13 kids, don't have them.

[fincenMIB]

She had 14 before she staopped, if she stopped? Warren said replentish the earth, they take this literal.

Most don't pay taxes, because of the number of dependents. The county revenue ratio is 8 to 1, of services vs revenue in taxes out.

I argue daily with independents that leave out that fact that we pay for this.

Medical fraud worse, millions spent by hospital emergency visits, up medical cost for us.

Can we afford 20-40 children, they earn less than us, how can they afford it?

[cyrex94]

This is a terrible burden on the taxpayers, and how can they look after them all, its impossible, they use the olders ones to watch them. People with extra large families are all on welfare and are bad parents because their is no way they can support them financially and emotionally. She even says all she has done is raise babies, ridiculous in this day and age. Shows how naive she is, we will all be together, if you can't hold it together they won't be duh

[hiimallen]

fincenMIB REAL crusade:

"I could have traded something better than carpet for the girl!"

[hiimallen]

Direct Press? Aahh! My boots is shakin!

They were not "kicked out" they went with Winston, who arranged the wedding in the first place. Warren served ME wine, but we didnt get drunk and beat our children.

[hiimallen]

Ha Ha Ha! That interview with his sister was funny, she is a hoot! They forgot to mention Lenore and Milton's drinking binges. Or the fact that Nichole hadn't lived at home for over a year before the TV came to town.

[fincenMIB]

Well sounds like you know enough to have a sit down with the investigators! Nichole was with her bio polygamist dad Paul Knudson. Paul told the courts that nichole was staying with his sister Mary Harker at the Beryl Junction, but we know that was A Lie! When Mike watkiss of News 3 TV out of Phoenix went to Wynn's house, there she was in his window, not with Paul up in Idaho!

She was Wynn's employee at the hardware store and it began while she was 15. Wynn just put in New Carpets for Warren!

[fincenMIB]

After installing the new carpets for a huge Jeffs home Wynn Jessop was was told he was a worthy man and asked if he had a worthy woman in mind. He did, his 15 year old part time employee, what a surprise!

Now here is a Ha Ha for you, since Nichole left with Wynn after both were later kicked out, I recorded her call as did Lenore at my suggestion. Nichole believed that Moron pedophile prophet now in prison and thought the union as Wynn second wife was by gods design, but I have her word since!

[fincenMIB]

Why don't you just admit you are a pedophile like Warren now in prison and quit justifying your sexual desires with children.

Yes both Milton & Lenore are AA members, but you know Warren served his wives wine! Then Truman Barlow did hard alcohol, his breath was pathetic and the bllod vessles in his nose made him look like W.C. Fields. Louis Barlow rest his soul owned "Mark Twains" wasn't alcohol served there?

You are a moron playing the 2 wrongs make a right game. Also this is public -

[fincenMIB]

- space! Every time you challenge me as a FLDS supporter of child brides, you do yourself no favors! I have directed the press to these sites and they are your audience. If you feel you have a statement to make to correct info or right a wrong, lets you and I and the press sit down with Gary Engels and correct it, This means a court affidavit, but to get at the FACTS, lets you and I do it.

[hiimallen]

Wynn was a good guy, and Nichole asked to marry him. Milton said yes, then Lenore said no right before the wedding. Everyone went home except Lenore. Miltons brothers helped build his place up in Idaho where his mom lives.

[fincenMIB]

Ah yes the Roundy's in Idaho, thanks we wouldn't want to forget the locations of the various groups who think the law is for suckers! You know the gentiles that pay for your illegal lifestyle through taxes, boy are they stupid, you need to add a few more Ha Ha Ha's! You'll get them on yourside with that joke, no I for got, we are the joke because we can't afford dozens of kids like you do!

Oops I keep forgetting, you afford it, because we are to stupid to put a stop to it!

[hiimallen]

"too stupit to put a stop to it"

It is sad that you hate children so much are all "outsiders" like you?

[fincenMIB]

What part of its against the law don't you understand? Are you stupid? Utah passed SB146 by Senator Ron Allen to address a child bigamy bill. Mayor Dan Barlow was interviewed! Warren went right out and did Ruby Jessop after the bill passed, then a hundred more.

He placed himself and his followers above the law.

Your fight is for the right to have white slavery, pedophilia, domination by salvation intimidation over women, sex slaves protected as religion, does that cover it?

[fincenMIB]

I like children and believe they have protection under the law! I hate stupid people, who can't grasp the law or ignore it!

You are the example of why the Texas courts are requiring counciling and parenting skillclasses, prior to unification with the children. Your society reassigns women to new husbands a form of prostitution, children are reassigned, its called abandonement! Reality is beyond you, Warrens confessions you believe are not real, reality means nothing, next to blind faith!

[fincenMIB]

Yeah Wynn was a nice guy, but that doesn't make it legal. I could of traded something better than a carpet for the girl! Thats why Warren was in trouble, like you, the law doesn't apply to those under GODS law!

As I recall Wynn lost his first wife she got reassigned, now that is American family values! Nichole was determined an unfit mother when Wynn fought for custody, but the leadership made the rules.

[fincenMIB]

As for the Harker ranch issue its court record that Paul stated Nichole was over 100 miles away. If Mary was in town, then Paul lied. Of course I recorded calls with Paul too.

Do you have a point challenging me? I'm not here to stop polygamy, but rather the underage thing! This puts you out there refusing to observe the law, its what put Warren in prison.

Here's the deal to defend polygamy, the funde's feel a need to defend Warren Jeffs and to denouce the raid he caused!

[fincenMIB]

To the world, on this blog, the newspaper blogs and event at the event on May 8th those who you need to decriminalize polygamy by vote just get insulted over and over again.

Laws don't apply to you!

No one should tell you what is to young to marry!

Texas is wrong after Warren thumbed his nose at authorities from inside a jail cell? Then you want us to embrace a lifestyle paid for in our taxes.

We can't afford as many children as the FLDS, tell us how you it I want a truck like yours

[hiimallen]

Raid he caused? Was he posing as a little abused girl like Flora, Elissa, and Rozita have?

[hiimallen]

Ah HA! Now I see what drives you! "I could have traded something better than carpet for the girl"

Wynn took off for Canada and hates Warren as bas as you do, his first wife chose her religion over her husband. Sorry you don't approve. Nichole was not determined an "unfit" mother, she didnt WANT any but her own child. Wynn still has visitation.

[fincenMIB]

In the court custody case Nichole back handed slapped one of Wynn's children, thus they lawyer claimed her a unfit mother. Bogus of course, but their was a court case where Wynn did make the attempt for custody.

And no, the carpet example was to make a point, you think what you want, no one controls your grasp on reality but you!

Do you need a friend or what compells you to keep coming back to debate me?

I put all of these video's up for the press or media they are crude and amateur

[fincenMIB]

For God's sake this one is a video of a TV documentary. These were not produced to impress anyone, not to entice viewers like you. The purpose was to offer this to the news agencies who kept calling asking for copies of cassettes and VHS, picky they now want DVD's, but most were collected as VHS.

The point is, I direct news agencies to these links, its the lazy mans way of sharing info, by posting it only once, instead of mailing out 100 copies.

You can debate, but youare hurting your own

[LoveFaithandHope]

How can they just take their daughter? Can't they call the police to get her back?!?!

[fincenMIB]

With Lenore we brought in Mike Watkiss from News 3 TV in Phoenix, went to the house where Nichole was at,& were met in the driveway by a armed militia.

The local police Force all are polygamous following Warren Jeffs, that was November of 2000. The Mohave County Sheriff wanted to Live & Let live!

The father was a step father and had no authority. Warren jeffs ordered the marriage! Because of the fuss we made, the girl stayed with the man until 18, then married him. Mother never got her bac

[LoveFaithandHope]

wow, so sorry to hear that.

[handydude6]

Thousands have been raped by Catholic Priests and the states never arrest them. That is the real sad story. This is total crap compared the the abuses of the catholic priests.

[pcollenYT]

Both are wrong, both need to be stopped.

PS: Are you SURE about that "thousands" figure ?

[handydude6]

Thousands in America alone. In the countries where the Catholics rule, which is most of S. America and Central America, who knows, because it never goes to trial. I just watched a video, about one priest in Bolivia who abused hundreds of little boys, finally got caught, and the church just moved him to another country, to serve as priest to abuse more boys.

[fincenMIB]

Why do 2 wrongs make a right? Are you FLDS or a pedophile defending rape of a child?

By all means go after the catholic priest! If I was aware of that situation I would, but I lived in Utah, this was 22 miles from me and a victim/client came to me!

So if you are not a pedo, then get off your ass and quit talking about what other people should do and you DO IT! Complain, complain, while the rest of us do what you are to chicken to do on your own. My plate is full!

Worthless Girly Man!

[Interruptedmag]

There is no real right government or religion, but there is happiness to be obtained, and that does not begin with raping young women as young as 12. Is this a white Africa or is it America? America invades Iraq, Afghanistan, believing their system is right. And take a look what happens within the USA; you got religious dictators stealing youth and freedom. Maybe the problems should be solved first within your own country then preaching to the choir.

[Interruptedmag]

This is madness. It is NOT natural to be having sex with a minor. Even if they might be FERTILE, they ARE NOT fully developed. 'Taking hands with the devil'? The devil are the people who steal freedom of others, who impose and show no love or understanding. Devil (word evil in there) are those who are power hungry and build an army of believers.

[Interruptedmag]

No birth control pill? Either he's sex hungry or both. Ever heard of masturbating? Surprised they can afford a house and she still looks human. Must be a mega loose vagina.