To understand the Trinity you have to start with the fact that there is and always will be one God. God is not like us. He has always existed as a Father, Son, Spirit relationship. God relates to Himself while remaining one God. The Son became human, the Father punished Him for the sin of those who will trust in Him. The Spirit applies this salvation to the believer. 1 God, but 3 distinctions within God. Christians do not believe in 3 Gods, but a God that is more complex than His creation.
Ravi Z is assuming that 'una essentia' (one essence) 'tres persona' means that there is within the one essence of God three centres of consciousness (a person, on this understanding of Nicaea, is a centre of consciousness) because it is only persons in this sense, i.e., centres of consciousness, that can love each other; however, I am convinced that this understanding of 'person' in Nicaea doesn't add up to authentic unity. Quite the contrary, along with Barth I think it equals tritheism.
@bayreuth79@bayreuth79 Jesus is recorded as saying He and the Father are one, and also said that the Father loves Him, all in one chapter (John 10). Only in an (overly) intellectual, Biblically-ignorant definition of personhood (which Ravi at no point posited; a very Straw Man indeed) can the unity within the Godhead, that which was espoused by Jesus Himself, be reduced to the heresy of tritheism.
to use the term being , for 3 beings is not intelligent. Oness does not make a singular noun. to call God HE and then say its 3 beings then using husband and wife as one flesh but yet call them they no correlation. To much philosophy not enough simplicity, He is mystifying the scriptures, thats why no one there think they can understand they need this lecture.
Perhaps satan refused the trinity, that is to say he perceived just one of the persons of god and so believed in a monotheistic god thus embodied monotality and eventualy monotality unto himself having him only see himself and in this pride exhalted himself as god till the trinity condemned him from their communion/heaven. Thus monotheistic religions are hell bound.
@ivanisavich Explain why. I mean what are we all to make of your comment? Atheists and Muslims might want to know why YOU feel that way. They already have there very own reasons.
I don't believe he ever spoke at at an LDS Conference. Please provide the date of the alleged sermon. If he did indeed spake at an LDS Conference, it would be easy to confirm.
All have sinned ie lied, stolen, blasphemed, lusted, hated, coveted, etc and greatly offended the holy righteous just truine God of the bible. The just punishment is death then hell. Thats not Gods will. He became a man suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His lifes blood now He can legally dismiss your case. you must repent turn from sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your salvation.
Amen Ravi, YHVH bless You. YHVH is NOT a one celled amoebae. He is complex and his wisdom is vastly far and above our reasoning of His ways. Isa 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD.
Man is one, yet has spirit, soul, body. Now we KNOW one can be three. Ge 1:26 ¶ Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
haha read some comments from a year ago and now :) you guys are funny :) so angry and childish.. its funny reading the comments, it kind of proved that you can talk about God without God in it...
For the truth about religion try Robert M. Price, ' The reason driven life ' or John W. Loftus or Victor J. Stenger, ' God, the failed hypothesis' . Also interesting to have a look at the 1500BCE papyrus of Ani, with its god Osiris who weighs the heart to decide who can pass to the land of the living.[ The need to know the names of the gods & the negative confession & other magic texts to get there]. James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough' and C.S. Lewis, 'Mere Christianity'
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, Christ is the Word made flesh. He had to pay for our sin debt, devil came to rob us, He came to restore us, and we have to die to self so we can be born again to spirit. We die and that is to flesh, and like a seed that loses its pod brings forth a growth. Those who reject Christ cannot move on, they will not be resurrected to new life, some seeds have been sown on infertile, thorny, rocky ground and have no chance.
What's the problem? He was teaching LDS theology until he actually said the words "one being" in three persons close to the end, quoting some guy, not scripture.
LDS Theology is the Scriptures, other theology is the mingling of the doctrines of men. Christ was fully God and fully man, Resurrected as a perfected soul, body and spirit as one. There is no reason Christ would be "different" than the Father. I saw other religions false doctrine from the Bible alone well before I knew mormonism.
@sbgrox11 you might have to listen to it a few times but he's very clear. you don't have to quote scripture verbatim to tackle a philosophical question regarding scripture.
@TheRockerInside @"Horses didn't even exist in the Americas when the BOM claims." What was found in the Loltun Cave proves horses DID exist when the Book of Mormon says.
@TheRockerInside Revelation was given to Jacob on the name of Christ. That's how they were called Christians. Bethlehem is a town in the land of Jerusalem so since Jesus was born in Bethlehem he was born in Jerusalem. Amarna Letter #290. The Bible also teaches God has a body of flesh and bones. So far you haven't given any contradictions. Yes, we're Christians.
@harry4health The "trinity" isn't biblical no matter how you try to spin it. You gave the typical trinitarian interpretations of those scriptures although they're not good interpretations you've given.
"Yahweh Elohim" Since when did God have a last name? Elohim is Hebrew for God or Gods depending on the verb(s) used around it. I'm aware of the ones you gave which is why I know you're wrong on them. For your sake please reread those scriptures.
@majinish-ASSERTING Trinity "isn't biblical"/etc means nothing. U IGNORED ALL BIBLE & points. Honest discussion=dealing w/SPECIFICS. U show UR biblical shallowness by muddling up "Yahweh ['Jehovah'] Elohim. Bible's "LORD God" in English IS "Yahweh Elohim" in HEBREW. Simple. God's last name? That is silly. EACH word teaches about God.
Yes, elohim does mean God or gods depending on PRONOUNS. Deut 6:13: "Yahweh your ELOHIM.. worship HIM [singular] ". Yahwek ELOHIM-SINGULAR pronoun. ONE literal God
@majinish - U obviously R so biaszed & blind U can't tell assertion from evidence. U ASSERT"The 'trinity' isn't biblical". By DEFINITION- assertion. Assertion is not evidence. U cop-out on assertion, claim it isn't an assertion, and continue to ignore directly dealing with the passages I used. Congrats. I can ASSERT a truth or error. Without evidence, it IS assertion. Deal w/my passages. UR dishonest by evasion.
"Before ME [singular] there was NO God formed. Neither shall there be AFTER me"
@majinish - "there are THREE separate *Gods*: God the Father-ELOHIM.. Jesus the Christ-JEHOVAH; and the Holy Ghost"- James E. Faust, 4/84 General Conference, Ensign, 5/1984
I showed- which U IGNORED- BIBLE always has true God ;'Jehovah'/YAHWEH Elohim as the 1 only true God. FACT - not assertion. Gen 2, Deut 4:5-6,etc.
"I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God." * Isaiah 44:6 NKJV
U IGNORED almost everything, while merely asserting & evading actual LDS doctrine- MANY LDS Gods
@TheRockerInside Jesus is in the image of the Father so either way you look at it God, the Father, is saying to make man in HIS, the Father's, image. The Book of Mormon does not contradict the Bible at all. I've read both.
@TheRockerInside No such thing as the "Mormon Bible". We use the KJV or at least most of us do. The Bible and Book of Mormon do not contradict once. The Word was with God. The Greek would help you understand why the "trinity" is false as well. Man was made in God's image and that is the Father.
@majinish so tell me is anyone that reads the king james version of the bible and someone reading the NIV coming to different conclusions on who christ is? no....
@TheRockerInside In other words you deny what the scriptures say about the Father even existing. Jesus is called our God because he's the Son of the only true God who is the Father.
@TheRockerInside It's simple, I don't ignore it. Yes, I have debunked your claim about John 1:1. John 1:1 makes it clear that God the Father is THE God while Jesus is our God due to him being the Son of God. There is one that is the only true God and that is the Father. Same applies to Isaiah 43. Jesus is referred to as our God because he's the Son of the only true God.
@TheRockerInside @"you admit that there is more than one part to God" Not hardly. There is one that is THE God of all and that's the Father. He's also Jesus' God. Since that's the case then the "trinity" concept cannot be considered valid. The New Testament teaches that true believers will be joint-heirs with Christ. Also, John 10:34-35.
@TheRockerInside John 1:1 is misunderstood and it certainly doesn't speak of a "trinity". For one, "tri" means 3 and John 1:1 speaks of 2 beings, not 3. Jesus is called our Lord our God because he's the Son of God the Father who is the ONLY TRUE God. You should read John 20:17. Many verses show why the "trinity" is false while there is no biblical support for the false "trinity" concept.
LDS Church officially teaches LDS 3 Gods of Father/Son/Holy Ghost (Ensign 3/08 p 68), but many other 'true' Gods & goddesses, Abraham, Isaac & Jacob are Gods & we can become literal Gods & goddesses "AS GREAT AS God", and as literal Gods, we can make worlds for our spirit children (D&C 132, Gospel Principles chapt 47, Prophet SWK Ensign 11/1975, etc)= Godhood (TofPC:SWK 1)
LDS prophet SWK said to a Conference priesthood meeting all *225,000* of them can become gods & create worlds (SWK 11/1975)
"Those who marry in the holy temple and are faithful to the covenants they make there will become gods and goddesses. They will be exalted and will have all power."
-Young Women Manual 3, Lesson 18 on LDS.org 11/8/10
"They shall be GODS, because they have ALL power' - D&C 132:20–21
I don't think Ravi spoke at LDS General Conference. I think it was some other LDS Church gathering. Can U share the specifics? I know he spoke at some LDS or LDS Church meeting, but I don't know thew details of where, when, what type of meeting. If it was GenConf, then his talk should be in LDS Church mag, Ensign.
@rurne and atheists story of saying science hs facts against god are just as tired. I agree, one cannot make the horse drink, but at least i may share how refreshing the water is
@rurne what i said was not that you read. What i said was you do not know God, and i mean that sincerely, because if you had relationship with Him as i do, you would not speak in such ways, but continuously praise him for being amazing. Btw do u agree that even though a man reads, he may or may not understand?
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can also lead a man to the fountain of knowledge, but if he chooses to gargle & spit, instead of drink, you can't force him to swallow.
I've had just as much experience with your deity as you have, and a much more intimate relationship with metaphysics and philosophy at large.
If you choose to enjoy your mass-hypnosis at church every week, that's your choice. But your stories are tired and anecdotal. Study geology.
@tallliza so when you are thinking, are you not speaking words to yourself in defense of the thoughts you wish to believe? The same effect with this prayer. As a note, why comment on the prayers of christ when you dont understand God?
He defends the bible, which is a man-made concoction. They picked and chose what was fitting into scriptures and what was not, and threw away, what was embarrassing. If you use the same process, one can made Playboy into a model of morality.
i dont understand ravi's explaination...how is it that the being of God be separated into three? case in point, Jesus on earth, and the Holy Spirit coming after Jesus' death. And Jesus praying to the Father at the garden of Gethsemane.
@wuhoolalalala jesus was not praying to a separate being for the sake of himself, but he was praying FOR us TO himself. the bible talks about praying continuously, and so Jesus was taking our place, not only on the cross, but also in prayer, making intercession for us. as others said, it is hard to wrap the human mind around the concept of the trinity, but it becomes more clear as you see the attributes of water. as ice, as liquid, as steam, it is still water, but it takes on 3 forms.
@MrPs103 but he was praying FOR us TO himself.. ,,,,,that`s a good one. How did he do that??.My father, who is me. I am in heaven, allowed be my name, My will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. I will give me today my daily bread...
I'm my parent's son, my brothers' brother, and my cousins' cousin. I am still myself, fully secure in my being, but three different things for three different purposes. Such is the Trinity.
God the Father,son and spirirt.. who made the mother Pregnant? the father and the son are one.. so Both of them are the same person....and I can also say the son made his mom pregnant?? no actualy the father did it.. but but but the son also the father.. and the father is the son.. hmmm?? who had sex with the mother.. mm both of them?? can u say you had sex with your mom and she got pregnant and when she gave birth taada!!!.. here you are again. I tell u your mom really in trouble!!
pride is a big problem for man, any one including my self can destroy our own image with out knowing about it, by nature we are fallen. People like Ravi and other big-shots are doing there best but sometime they do bad stuff too and people like to make judgment on the bases of there mistakes. We are not perfect but we have Jesus who is in every scene is and always will be PERFECT, look UP TO HIM Do the Things He did and Told us to do you will never be disappointed.
pride is a big problem for man, any one including my self can destroy our own image with out knowing about it, by nature we are fallen. People like Ravi and other big-shots are doing there best but sometime they do bad stuff too and people like to make judgment on the bases of there mistakes. We are not perfect but we have Jesus who is in every scene is and always will be PERFECT, look UP TO HIM Do the Things He did and Told us to do you will never be disappointed.
I would have simply said God is the Father, Son and Spirit in One. What is so hard to comprehend just like water is in not solid (ice) , liquid (water), and gas (steam) so imagine the divinity of God. The substance of water is mentioned in the Holy scripture, I believe for a time like now : )
@wwechi Right, is that like the original star wars series is real while the last 3 movies are not? I still don't get it. Maybe thats because i am not a completely gullible half wit.
@myironlungca you are not a gullable half wit. and nor am I. Christ said "that all those who hear the truth hear my voice, and all those who hear my voice hear the truth". Let me guess you believe in Evolution- the fact that there was "nothing" and then it just exploded lol and the monkey I see in the zoo in a years to come will evolve to be the bus driver or a medical doctor lol give me a break. and research what you believe in.
@wwechi Sorry before i waste my time talking to someone who is obviously a brainwashed twit please let me know how much research you have done on the subject of evolution or cosmology? Just don't want to get bored explaining things to a five year old mentality. As for what Christ said.. Circular completely, and christ is a figment of your over active imagination. Go and see a physciatrist please.
@myironlungca "the only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it" Edmund Spencer also elaborates if you do your research. Instead of being pumped with what somebody tells u or u catch a glimpse of on youtube. I sincerely hope that you do find The Way, The Truth and The Life...
@wwechi "The ultimate slave is one who does not know they are a slave". Don't remember where the quote came from but i think if you look around you (ie globally) you will find the arrogance in claiming the "truth" lies with you. The Christian faith is a minority faith and a dieing one at that. If it was so compelling don't you think we would all believe in it? I think you will also find that unlike most atheists i am very well researched and experienced in religion in all of its guises.
@myironlungca There are millions of professing Christians in this world. I guess out of 6 billion we are a minority. Yes I believe is absolute truth. But what you believe is your choice. If the fact I believe in the bible being truth and that makes me unscientific and ignorant, so be it. If everything alive is an accident, then what one believes does not matter.
@GAboy2470 What frigthens me most about religious people is that despite reams of evidence dismissing more or less everything they hold as truth they continute to believe. Its the very defenition of being a brain washed zealout. And its not an accident, its called evolution. One day you will wake up out of your dream. Best of luck.
@myironlungca If I am dreaming, I hope I never wake up. If this reality is the only thing there is, then reality is the cruelest dream of all. A true Atheist would not be scared, or offended by the likes of me. If you are so sure in you beliefs in evolution, then why are opposing view points are threatening? Are you a true Atheist, or just anti-religion? A true Atheist would have no political agenda, and would be neutral when it comes to religion.
@GAboy2470 its your lack of education that makes you so afraid, and why do i fight religion, because that which cannot be reasonably be justified retards us all, Apologists are faith based clowns dressed up in 101 philosophy classes designed to trick the slighty more educated sheep. You;re still not going to catch out the others, you get my respect when you dont condemn homosexuals, admit morality from the bible is a cherry picking exercise and be honest with yourself and the rest of us.
@myironlungca I am sorry the bible offends you. But changing what it says is not an option. Faith is not about making the message more pleasant and palatable to suit you and others like you.
Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
@GAboy2470 Right, so the earth is 6000 years old, slavery is just fine etc etc, or are you the typical cherry picking kind and will come up with some TOTAL bullshit as to why some parts are literal and some are to be interpreted. As long as you are slave to that idiotic pile of crap you will always invite complete scorn. AND do not talk to me about values, as an atheist i guarantee you i am at least as moral as you.
Are you going to waste my time with the old, "you just want to be an atheist so you can do whatever you want" garbage or any other of the streams of garbage you god nuts like to spew. Do you all sing from the same play book ALL THE TIME. Its like you have absolutely nothing new to say and when you get to the end of the Anti Atheist Record you just play it over again as though we all forgot the first track. Its honestly so fucking boring.
@myironlungca so then you are saying that if you found God to be real, you would drop your pride and humbly do as He would ask of you? as i was once an atheist and i've met many atheists in my life, they would have a difficult time answering this because in truth if they found out God is real, they are then no longer animals and are held accountable for their actions, which would then end their reign over their own lives.
@MrPs103 What a naive and almost laughable view you have of reality all tied up in your fairy tale book. If god is real then he is a nasty, vile, and perverse sadist. Humans are the worst of all animals because they don't live in harmony with their surroundings. Why would your God create such a disgusting, self absorbed, habitually violent animal as a human? Wake up.
@myironlungca You have a raised a very good point. But what I don't understand is your barometer for the human condition. Explain to me apart from God how we humans are disgusting, self absorbed, or habitually violent if our goal in life is a hedonistic pursuit to an undisclosed end? Without an originating point for morality then can we truly be good or bad? Or is this standard you hold humanity to merely a sociological preference that you have been conditioned to since your meaningless birth?
@FllwLD Without answering the rest of your question explain to me your "originating point for morality", this should make it easier for me to highlight the true stupidity of how you think.
@myironlungca My question is simple, by whose standard is humanity bad? In order for something to be truly bad does there not have to be an absolute good from which a moral law originates and by whose standard we claim something is bad? To me this absolute good is God. I want you to explain to me how humanity can be so depraved without an originating point for a moral law.
@FllwLD "This absolute good is God", whose God, which holy book, which version of the holy book, which parts of which version of the holy book, you cant really mean everything in the bible is correct, by what standard do you decide? Common sense... God has nothing to do with it. And your "common sense" is simply a subjective set of values determined by your culture, experience and upbringing. To answer your question you can decide if something is good or bad based on amounts of suffering caused.
@myironlungca Why do you assume that because I say there has to be an originating point for morality I believe everything that is in the Bible? Jumping to rather quick conclusions aren't you? So what you're saying is that right and wrong are subjective, and you're accepting that there is nothing that is truly or inherently good and bad? The fact that I think a young boy being sodomized is bad is based solely on the value system I am sociologically conditioned to?
@FllwLD I think you have actually proved my point, morality clearly doesnt come from the Bible, it comes from good old common sense, and you nut bags have yet to accpet that clear and demonstrable fact. If you have to mix and match the bible with common sense then honestly what good is the bible? Stil the divine word ol god? Nap time over yet ?
@myironlungca Let me ask you something. If morality comes from God and the Bible is the Word of God, then prove how morality doesn't come from he Bible, which is God's word.
@myironlungca Did you also know that slavery back then was merely servanthood and did you know that many of the people choose to do that. I bet you didn't. If the Bible doesn't set morality would you like to explain what does? I am all ears.
@zachmando013 I really cant be bothered to debate someone of your stupidity and blindness. If the bible teaches morality explain to me how the least religious societies are the most successful. AND if you start mentioning Hitler and atheism converssation over. Anyway secularism and religious backlash is on the rise. We have all had more than enough of your garbage.
@myironlungca You make me laugh. You act like you guys are a cult and you are going to overthrow religion. If the least religious societies (even though all societies have some sort of religious group or individual.) are more successful would you happen to have any proof to back up that statement. What is your definition of successful. I live for God, I am successful, oh snap, I AM RELIGIOUS AND SUCCESSFUL HOW COULD THIS BE!? I bet if you did believe in God, the reason you left was selfishness..
@myironlungca I beg to differ my friend. No man is perfect. Even you! and Yes me to. The Human strive for perfection has always failed, there are many societies that are secular that are not successful. However thanks to the middle east and media, you only see one part of it. God bashers! and the people that follow! But i will say one thing about it your attempt to promote secularism also promotes, rape, murder of the innocent, poverty, etc. Survival of the fittest! I need to say no more
@myironlungca Slavery belongs to humans not God....we can see slavery through out history of man kind..nothing exposes the human nature more than slavery..I am not denying that slavery was in the bible but at the same time it has been through out history where there was no belief in God and where there was a belief. The answer for it is to see people as Jesus would, and that was to die for there freedom. There is neither jew or greek slave or free male or female but only one through JESUS!
@myironlungca It really doesn't matter what I believe. Is apparent that it makes you uncomfortable to answer questions without attacking other people's beliefs. All I was trying to figure out is whether or not you believed in right and wrong. It appears that you do not. It seems that you believe in the perception of what is right and wrong but you do not believe that anything is inherently bad? We just perceive it as such because that it was we were conditioned to do?
@FllwLD Some things aren't perception,Killing a baby for no reason isn't perception IF anyone would agree to such, all societies( civilized) would call it murder.in us all weather we believe in God or not has a built in Moral aspect about us that we can't explain. However the only thing that changes that moral out look is culture and society usually based off of one persons evil thought or act. There for if perception was always relevant the human population would have been destroyed by now!
@myironlungca My question is simple, by whose standard is humanity bad? In order for something to be truly bad does there not have to be an absolute good from which a moral law originates and by whose standard we claim something is bad? To me this absolute good is God. I want you to explain to me how humanity can be so depraved without an originating point for a moral law.
@wwechi It is sooo hard because you can't count THREE individuasl as one person.Yes!!You could be saying one family, but one person?Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
* God the Holy Spirit- Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor 3:17 Modalists beleive 1 PERSON in 3 MODES/OFFICES, as 1 person could be a manager, club president & a father. That is NOT the Trinity.
@harry4health @"These three Persons who are the ONE God" Wrong. Jesus said the Father is the ONLY true God. He didn't include himself or the Holy Ghost.
@majinish-PLZ do more than assert. I gave scriptures-LOOK THEM ALL UP & READ! It isn't worthwhile discussion to have U ignore all passages I listed on Jesus, the Holy Spirit,etc. Be honest & do some homework,please. Father is the only true God, Jesus is (1 Jn-"the TRUE God") & HSpirit is(Acts 5, 2 Cor 3:17)
R U Mormon? LDS Church claims many true, literal GODS:
"Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all Gods."-LDS Church:New Testament Stories,People to Know
@harry4health The thing is I've already looked up the scriptures people attempt to use so many times and believe me, those scriptures are misunderstood by trinitarians. No, I'm not Mormon. He was the prophet that put the Golden Plates together, father of Moroni, but thanks for calling me the name of a great man. I'm a member of Jesus Christ's church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
@majinish -PT 2: UR slant on "Mormon"- LDS Church: "MORMON Channel", MORMON*org, pamphlet "What of the MMORMONS" & "What the MORMONS Think of Christ" The first version of MORMON*org was MORMONS*org (Internet Archive). The rest is more empty than the first slant on Mormon. U evaded every point & reference & gave an empty post.
@majinish -They R not misunderstood by Trinitarians. The plainest of them is monotheism, which LDS polytheists reject by claiming many 'true' Gods & goddesses (Ensign 3/08, p68, LDS Abr 4-5, D&C 132, etc). LDS Church claims Father/Son/Holy 'Ghost' R 3 literal Gods, so issue is how many true Gods: Isa 43-47 is plain. Trinity post was not to U. I showed U the Holy Spirit & Jesus are designated literal God & LDS Church is polytheist.
"I am the FIRST and I am the LAST; "Besides Me there is NO God"
@harry4health Since the Bible doesn't teach trinitarianism, yes, trinitarians do misunderstand these verses. We LDS are monotheistic, not trinitarian.
And on your quote from the scriptures there's a similar scripture in Zephaniah 2 except it's about a city even though there was way more than one city then as well as in Isaiah 47. Your interpretation on Isaiah 44 is incorrect
@majinish - U vaguely alluded to Zeph 2 with no specifics, name or verses. Useless to test (Acts 17:11). U said "SIMILAR", which means differences, which means we must be careful to see the differences as well- in all of Isa 43-47. Very weak. Isa 44:6 is quite specific & detailed- FIRST & LAST God, NO others, NONE before/after, etc. U haven't proven my view on Isa 44 is "incorrect"- U gave vague allusions, don't deal w/specifics of each text for differences, etc. That isn't obeying 2 Tim 2:15.
@harry4health When I said similar I meant the only difference was it wasn't talking about God. I told you why you -are- incorrect about your interpretation.
@majinish- Some vague 'divine beings' R not literal Gods as fully defined in LDS Church.
Ps 82- They "JUDGE *UNJUSTLY*", R SINFUL & will DIE. LDS church teaches exalted Gods are perfect & do NOT sin & WON'T die. It says "U ARE", not will be, as LDS Godhood teaches.
Jesus used "a priori" argument & he said if Bible can call men gods, why complain when he said he is the SON OF God.
Exod 7:1 uses god FIGURATIVELY & J Smith did too- "I will be GOD to you, and if U don't like it, U must lump it'.
@harry4health If you read verse 7 you'll see verse 2 refers to men, not the other gods mentioned in verse 1. Why do we judged others unjustly? That's the question asked.
@majinish -Ps 82: LDS Church officially teaches LDS are NOT Gods yet. D&C 132, etc.
Ps 82 says "ARE", but they "are" NOT exalted LDS Gods
Ps 82 context has "gods" in vss 2 & 6. U skipped that. The clear subject of the Psalmist was the men who judged unjustly but would DIE. That is shown in between vss 2 & 6 & after. Ex 7:1 uses "god" in a FIGURATIVE of a MORTAL man.
Ps 82- WHO in ISRAEL were given law & dealt UNJUSTLY & would DIE?
@harry4health Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
These can't be false idols since God dwells with them. Scriptures like Isaiah 44:6 do not say there are no other divine beings. Moses and Elijah certainly had a divine nature when Jesus took Peter, James, and John with him which made them divine beings. Isaiah 44:6 simply shows the supremacy Jesus has over all other beings minus the Father.
@harry4health When you worship the Father in Christ's name you're worshiping Christ. If you accept the Son you're to accept the Father. If you accept the Father you're to accept the Son.
I know that's how your LDS Church explains it, but that doesn't stick to the texts of the 1830 Book of Mormon or the New Testament of the Bible. BOM 2 Nephi 25:29 is DIRECT TO Jesus :Worship HIM [Jesus]" & they fell down before JESUS "and did worship HIM" in BOM 3 Nephi 11:17. It was NOT some direct worship of the Father and THUS 'worship' Jesus. Sorry, but U dodged DIRECT passages for the rationalizations of POST-BOM Mormonism.
"You shall fear Yahweh your ELOHIM; you shall serve HIM [singular] and cling to HIM [SINGULAR], and you shall swear by HIS [SINGULAR] name [SINGULAR]."
@majinish- Compare Isa 10 w/Ps 82. SAME things about mortals as Ps 82:2,6 'gods'. Enact evil laws/decrees, just unjustly w/needy & poor (Isa 10:1-3).
Ps 58-VERY similar points w/'gods'! It also calls these FIGURATIVE 'gods' as MORTALS/"sons of men" who don't judge uprightly, use violence, are "wicked" & have "poison". Psalmist asks God to BREAK them & take vengeance & God will judge the earth (Also in Ps 82:8). Also see Ps 94:20.
Ps 82 & Ps 58 w/Isa 10/etc show FIGURATIVE 'gods' R sinful men
@majinish -"It's still monotheism because we worship one God who is the Father".
* POLYTHEISM: poly-many / theism-god (from theos) = many gods
* "the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods."
- Random House College Dictionary
LDS: 3 Gods of Father/Son/Holy Ghost (Ensign 3/08 p 68), Abraham, Isaac & Jacob are 3 Gods & we can become literal Gods & goddesses as literal Gods (D&C 132, Gospel Principles ch 47, Achieving Celestial Marriage), "the Gods" create(LDS Abr 4-5)
@harry4health We're monotheistic while you're a trinitarian. No, trinitarianism isn't monotheistic. Your belief is in a 3-in-1 God while monotheism is strictly worshiping ONE God, not 3-in-1.
@majinish no, you are henotheistic. you believe in MANY gods and you choose to worship one (at a time).
christianity is monotheistic (i and the father are one - Jesus). you just can't escape it. you don't know what to do with the fact that God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ALSO God (all 3 persons are 1 being) but you cannot escape the fact that Jesus explicitly teaches 2 things: they are distinct and they are One, not JUST in purpose but in BEING.
@majinish-UR shallow claim is false. U IGNORE my dictionary definition for LDS 'special pleading' REdefinition of monotheism/polytheism
"Monotheism (from Greek μόνος, monos, "single", and θεός, theos, "god") is the belief in the existence of one god,[1] as distinguished from polytheism, the belief in more than one god"
U dishonestly IGNORED dictionary I gave- polytheism is "the BELIEF or DOCTRINE OF MORE THAN one God"
Trinity- "3-in-ONE/1 God" (UR words)=only 1 God exists
Jesus didn't include Himself in the Godhead? Read the 17th chapter of John and read verse 5 and you will see if Gods Spirit opens your eyes, that Jesus has existed long before the world was even made. Hope you read and understand. God Bless You my friend
@1988TheHitman Jesus included himself in the Godhead but he never included anyone in a so-called "trinity". I do understand the scriptures which is why I do not believe in a concept that was forced to become doctrine in 325 AD by a Roman Emperor. They are the 3 beings of the Godhead but they are not a 3-in-1 God. God the Father is God of all including Jesus Christ which is Jesus actually says something about in John 20:17.
My friend let me ask you a question, and i am being sincere, do you believe the Bible to be the complete word of God? Not talking of the obvious perverted concoctions that others have brought in over the last few centuries. Thee word of God, i read the king james, its a very trust worthy version.
@1988TheHitman The Bible and Book of Mormon are the word of God. The Bible itself proves this. To say "complete" is inaccurate since the Bible speaks of many other books that aren't even in the Bible. That's something the early council didn't notice. They said certain books were of no value without realizing those books are mentioned in our now-Old & New Testaments. And odds are you, like the rest of us, read the revised KJV. Look at the page before Genesis that mentions King James and all that.
So if you have the king james in front of you then read Galations chapter 1 vs 8 and you will find these words... "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" So for this reason i would advise you to get rid of any other book that contradicts the Bible.
@1988TheHitman I'm good. I've read that before. I've also read verse 9 as well. If you're going to use the Bible against the Book of Mormon you should at least get with the "in-crowd" and use the verses everyone uses. Of course it doesn't do you any good. The problem with people using Galatians 1:8-9 is you're saying everything an angel says is false. You should look up Revelation 14:6. The Book of Mormon doesn't contradict the Bible. They support each other.
@majinish -U previously said here: "the Father is the ONLY true God. He didn't include himself or the Holy Ghost". U seem confused. U defend LDS 'true' Gods while saying the only true God is the Father, NOT Jesus or Holy 'Ghost'.
LDS Church states MANY true Gods:
JE Faust of 1st Presidency in General Conference: "there are THREE separate *Gods*: God the Father-Elohim.. Jesus..and the Holy Ghost"- James E. Faust "Ensign, 5/1984, "the Gods" LDS Abr 4-5. BOM: Jesus IS the ETERNAL GOD, D&C 132- GODS
No offense, but ridicule isn't an argument, bro. If the average philosophy student would eat Dr. Ravi alive, then leading universities around the world would NOT continue to hold him as a speaker again and again.
If you want to challenge Ravi's talks, go to one of his talks near you, and just try to humiliate him in front of a crowd and show him up for the "fraud" he is. Otherwise, I suggest you take your religious prejudice somewhere else.
@BassP86 Have you ever actually objectively listened to one of his so called arguments? They are absolutely pathetic. They always follow exactly the same pattern. Irrelevant anecdotal story telling for 2-3 mins, followed by subtle rephrasing of the original question followed by Christian rhetoric. I would love to go challenge the moron but luckily i dont live anywhere near anywhere he would ever be talking.
@BassP86 Leading universities around the world? LOL? Feb 2011 speaking schedule of the moron: Grace Fellowship Church, Houghton College Lecture, Circular Road Baptist Chapel, India, Adult Sunday School, Synod of Alberta Study Conference, Oxford University Mission, Hng Hwa Methodist Church Singapore, etc etc etc. He's not Stephen Hawking ... He's just a crack pot praying on the intellectually weak - telling lies and makiing himself rich. Count yourself amongst the sheep. Bahhhhhhhh
@BassP86 Leading universities around the world? LOL? Feb 2011 speaking schedule of the moron: Grace Fellowship Church, Houghton College Lecture, Circular Road Baptist Chapel, India, Adult Sunday School, Synod of Alberta Study Conference, Oxford University Mission, Hng Hwa Methodist Church Singapore, etc etc etc. He's not Stephen Hawking ... He's just a crack pot praying on the intellectually weak - telling lies and makiing himself rich. Count yourself amongst the sheep. Bahhhhhhhh
Ravi Zacharias is an idiot. He is a fraud. Whether it be LDS or a general talk on metaphysics, he stated it at @2:03: he talks about personal experience (i.e. ANECDOTE), to create evidence.
This guy babbles incoherently about "unity and diversity" and tries to unite it with a quasi-pantheism vs. monotheism. And yet saints are still beatified like Buddhas, but they aren't the Bodhisattva.
See where this is going? Where'd Yeshua go for 20+ years?
@Rurne you do not know God, so it is hard to explain this, but i will try, & i pray you bear with me. there are many in the bible that were great men of God that were not written of for many years because i believe they were busy being alone with God. my most valued thing in my life as a christian is my relationship with God, and my further study of Him to understand Him better and grow closer to Him in that understanding. what is done in private with God is too amazing to put easily into words.
UNITY AND DIVERSITY IN THE COMMUNITY OF THE TRINITY :-)
WordMinistry 2 days ago
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To understand the Trinity you have to start with the fact that there is and always will be one God. God is not like us. He has always existed as a Father, Son, Spirit relationship. God relates to Himself while remaining one God. The Son became human, the Father punished Him for the sin of those who will trust in Him. The Spirit applies this salvation to the believer. 1 God, but 3 distinctions within God. Christians do not believe in 3 Gods, but a God that is more complex than His creation.
TheJmsauer 5 days ago
Ravi Z is assuming that 'una essentia' (one essence) 'tres persona' means that there is within the one essence of God three centres of consciousness (a person, on this understanding of Nicaea, is a centre of consciousness) because it is only persons in this sense, i.e., centres of consciousness, that can love each other; however, I am convinced that this understanding of 'person' in Nicaea doesn't add up to authentic unity. Quite the contrary, along with Barth I think it equals tritheism.
bayreuth79 2 weeks ago
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natemup 2 days ago
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@bayreuth79 @bayreuth79 Jesus is recorded as saying He and the Father are one, and also said that the Father loves Him, all in one chapter (John 10). Only in an (overly) intellectual, Biblically-ignorant definition of personhood (which Ravi at no point posited; a very Straw Man indeed) can the unity within the Godhead, that which was espoused by Jesus Himself, be reduced to the heresy of tritheism.
natemup 2 days ago
to use the term being , for 3 beings is not intelligent. Oness does not make a singular noun. to call God HE and then say its 3 beings then using husband and wife as one flesh but yet call them they no correlation. To much philosophy not enough simplicity, He is mystifying the scriptures, thats why no one there think they can understand they need this lecture.
Jahdiel6382 3 weeks ago
Wow, im just blown away by this mans insight and explanation of the trinity, this is an awesome vid
greekgod41 3 weeks ago
Perhaps satan refused the trinity, that is to say he perceived just one of the persons of god and so believed in a monotheistic god thus embodied monotality and eventualy monotality unto himself having him only see himself and in this pride exhalted himself as god till the trinity condemned him from their communion/heaven. Thus monotheistic religions are hell bound.
lowellkylewilliamson 1 month ago
Ravi is so full of bullshit it's not even funny.
ivanisavich 1 month ago
@ivanisavich Explain why. I mean what are we all to make of your comment? Atheists and Muslims might want to know why YOU feel that way. They already have there very own reasons.
NoneBeforeNoneAfter 1 week ago
@ivanisavich let's hear your side.
25blue24 2 days ago
I don't believe he ever spoke at at an LDS Conference. Please provide the date of the alleged sermon. If he did indeed spake at an LDS Conference, it would be easy to confirm.
jbgtn 1 month ago
@jbgtn /watch?v=pvrQ6yAjuOw
tomdenman 1 month ago
@jbgtn just type ravi zacharias speaking to lds part 1, just because you dont believe doesnt mean its not true
reeceagodwin 1 month ago
Great video!!
jlc19702 1 month ago
SO RAVI SPEAKS AT MORMON CONF. DID HE EVER HAVE A SERMON BREAKING DOWN HOW THEY ARE HORRIBLY DECIEVED?
Ps3vinni 1 month ago
@Ps3vinni
I'm sure he has one about how you are "HORRIBLY DECEIVED" or just a horrible person maybe...
Sk8er408 1 month ago
All have sinned ie lied, stolen, blasphemed, lusted, hated, coveted, etc and greatly offended the holy righteous just truine God of the bible. The just punishment is death then hell. Thats not Gods will. He became a man suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His lifes blood now He can legally dismiss your case. you must repent turn from sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your salvation.
mamainmancj 1 month ago 8
Isaiah 55:9
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
When we try to understand God or impose our limited understanding on Him we make a tragic mistake.
He told us enough about Himself for us accept the Gospel.
No matter how deep we dig or how high we reach God's thoughts will always exceed our ability to grasp them.
We are blessed to be able to even grasp the limited revelations of Him that He allowed us to see.
hammerogod 4 months ago
Surely, Ravi Zakarias points us to God.... THANK YOU, testskriftene, for this inspiring post... May Jesus Christ Be Praised!!
ThLuckyOne 4 months ago
Amen Ravi, YHVH bless You. YHVH is NOT a one celled amoebae. He is complex and his wisdom is vastly far and above our reasoning of His ways. Isa 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD.
GodsSeer 4 months ago
Man is one, yet has spirit, soul, body. Now we KNOW one can be three. Ge 1:26 ¶ Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
GodsSeer 4 months ago
haha read some comments from a year ago and now :) you guys are funny :) so angry and childish.. its funny reading the comments, it kind of proved that you can talk about God without God in it...
MrByronco 4 months ago
For the truth about religion try Robert M. Price, ' The reason driven life ' or John W. Loftus or Victor J. Stenger, ' God, the failed hypothesis' . Also interesting to have a look at the 1500BCE papyrus of Ani, with its god Osiris who weighs the heart to decide who can pass to the land of the living.[ The need to know the names of the gods & the negative confession & other magic texts to get there]. James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough' and C.S. Lewis, 'Mere Christianity'
zytigon 5 months ago
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, Christ is the Word made flesh. He had to pay for our sin debt, devil came to rob us, He came to restore us, and we have to die to self so we can be born again to spirit. We die and that is to flesh, and like a seed that loses its pod brings forth a growth. Those who reject Christ cannot move on, they will not be resurrected to new life, some seeds have been sown on infertile, thorny, rocky ground and have no chance.
TheLionessjudah 6 months ago 3
@TheLionessjudah Wasn't Jesus Christ ressurected physically?
TheBoogdar 1 month ago
What's the problem? He was teaching LDS theology until he actually said the words "one being" in three persons close to the end, quoting some guy, not scripture.
LDS Theology is the Scriptures, other theology is the mingling of the doctrines of men. Christ was fully God and fully man, Resurrected as a perfected soul, body and spirit as one. There is no reason Christ would be "different" than the Father. I saw other religions false doctrine from the Bible alone well before I knew mormonism.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@sbgrox11 you might have to listen to it a few times but he's very clear. you don't have to quote scripture verbatim to tackle a philosophical question regarding scripture.
anonazero 6 months ago
@TheRockerInside @"Horses didn't even exist in the Americas when the BOM claims." What was found in the Loltun Cave proves horses DID exist when the Book of Mormon says.
majinish 7 months ago
@TheRockerInside Revelation was given to Jacob on the name of Christ. That's how they were called Christians. Bethlehem is a town in the land of Jerusalem so since Jesus was born in Bethlehem he was born in Jerusalem. Amarna Letter #290. The Bible also teaches God has a body of flesh and bones. So far you haven't given any contradictions. Yes, we're Christians.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish - The Trinity is biblical, as outlined in the Bible:
There are three Persons:
*Matt 28:19
In only ONE true God who exists, Yahweh Elohim:
* Deut 6:4-5, Isa 43-47, James 2:19
These three Persons who are the ONE God are:
* God the Father- John 4:23-24, Rom 1:7
* God the Son, Jesus- John 1:1-14; 8:58; 20:28
* God the Holy Spirit- Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor 3:17
The outline is there.
harry4health 7 months ago
@harry4health The "trinity" isn't biblical no matter how you try to spin it. You gave the typical trinitarian interpretations of those scriptures although they're not good interpretations you've given.
"Yahweh Elohim" Since when did God have a last name? Elohim is Hebrew for God or Gods depending on the verb(s) used around it. I'm aware of the ones you gave which is why I know you're wrong on them. For your sake please reread those scriptures.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish-ASSERTING Trinity "isn't biblical"/etc means nothing. U IGNORED ALL BIBLE & points. Honest discussion=dealing w/SPECIFICS. U show UR biblical shallowness by muddling up "Yahweh ['Jehovah'] Elohim. Bible's "LORD God" in English IS "Yahweh Elohim" in HEBREW. Simple. God's last name? That is silly. EACH word teaches about God.
Yes, elohim does mean God or gods depending on PRONOUNS. Deut 6:13: "Yahweh your ELOHIM.. worship HIM [singular] ". Yahwek ELOHIM-SINGULAR pronoun. ONE literal God
harry4health 7 months ago
@harry4health I'm not asserting anything. The "trinity" isn't biblical, that's not my opinion, that's a fact.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish - U obviously R so biaszed & blind U can't tell assertion from evidence. U ASSERT"The 'trinity' isn't biblical". By DEFINITION- assertion. Assertion is not evidence. U cop-out on assertion, claim it isn't an assertion, and continue to ignore directly dealing with the passages I used. Congrats. I can ASSERT a truth or error. Without evidence, it IS assertion. Deal w/my passages. UR dishonest by evasion.
"Before ME [singular] there was NO God formed. Neither shall there be AFTER me"
harry4health 6 months ago
@majinish - "there are THREE separate *Gods*: God the Father-ELOHIM.. Jesus the Christ-JEHOVAH; and the Holy Ghost"- James E. Faust, 4/84 General Conference, Ensign, 5/1984
I showed- which U IGNORED- BIBLE always has true God ;'Jehovah'/YAHWEH Elohim as the 1 only true God. FACT - not assertion. Gen 2, Deut 4:5-6,etc.
"I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God." * Isaiah 44:6 NKJV
U IGNORED almost everything, while merely asserting & evading actual LDS doctrine- MANY LDS Gods
harry4health 6 months ago
@TheRockerInside Jesus is in the image of the Father so either way you look at it God, the Father, is saying to make man in HIS, the Father's, image. The Book of Mormon does not contradict the Bible at all. I've read both.
majinish 7 months ago
@TheRockerInside .. Nope.
Let me spell it out for you.
I was implying that the spelling should be
" the trinity for morons " as in, the trinity is for morons.
Although I do agree with you that the mormons are pretty close to morons too.
Seems a waste to add that extra letter.
Roper122 7 months ago
@TheRockerInside ... ahhh you made a good joke, even funnier, by completely missing it.
Roper122 7 months ago
Absolutely Ravi the trinity is for....oh wait... morMons.
Oh sorry, misread, I thought he was finally making sense.
Roper122 7 months ago
@TheRockerInside No such thing as the "Mormon Bible". We use the KJV or at least most of us do. The Bible and Book of Mormon do not contradict once. The Word was with God. The Greek would help you understand why the "trinity" is false as well. Man was made in God's image and that is the Father.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish the kjv of the bible is outdated why read it??? why not the NIV?
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@lilbeaveymac Because the KJV is the most accurate version.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish so tell me is anyone that reads the king james version of the bible and someone reading the NIV coming to different conclusions on who christ is? no....
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@TheRockerInside In other words you deny what the scriptures say about the Father even existing. Jesus is called our God because he's the Son of the only true God who is the Father.
majinish 7 months ago
@TheRockerInside It's simple, I don't ignore it. Yes, I have debunked your claim about John 1:1. John 1:1 makes it clear that God the Father is THE God while Jesus is our God due to him being the Son of God. There is one that is the only true God and that is the Father. Same applies to Isaiah 43. Jesus is referred to as our God because he's the Son of the only true God.
majinish 7 months ago
@TheRockerInside @"you admit that there is more than one part to God" Not hardly. There is one that is THE God of all and that's the Father. He's also Jesus' God. Since that's the case then the "trinity" concept cannot be considered valid. The New Testament teaches that true believers will be joint-heirs with Christ. Also, John 10:34-35.
majinish 7 months ago
@TheRockerInside John 1:1 is misunderstood and it certainly doesn't speak of a "trinity". For one, "tri" means 3 and John 1:1 speaks of 2 beings, not 3. Jesus is called our Lord our God because he's the Son of God the Father who is the ONLY TRUE God. You should read John 20:17. Many verses show why the "trinity" is false while there is no biblical support for the false "trinity" concept.
majinish 7 months ago
@TheRockerInside No, I'm a member of Jesus Christ's church, not a cult.
majinish 7 months ago
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before abraham was I am
perez85tkd 8 months ago
I-You relationship in the Godhead. Martin Buber was Jewish, but he really can help you grow as a Christian.
Hyenashowl 8 months ago
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@Rurne i ask you to give me evidence of your claims, but you ignore me. Do you have the evidence? I dare you to attempt to shake my faith.
MrPs103 8 months ago
"The First Vision confirms the fact there are three *separate* GODS: God the Father...Jesus the Christ...and the Holy Ghost"
- James E. Faust, 4/84 General Conference, Ensign, May 1984
That can't fit the only true God in Isa 43-47
"I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is NO God."
* Isaiah 44:6 NKJV
harry4health 8 months ago
LDS Church officially teaches LDS 3 Gods of Father/Son/Holy Ghost (Ensign 3/08 p 68), but many other 'true' Gods & goddesses, Abraham, Isaac & Jacob are Gods & we can become literal Gods & goddesses "AS GREAT AS God", and as literal Gods, we can make worlds for our spirit children (D&C 132, Gospel Principles chapt 47, Prophet SWK Ensign 11/1975, etc)= Godhood (TofPC:SWK 1)
LDS prophet SWK said to a Conference priesthood meeting all *225,000* of them can become gods & create worlds (SWK 11/1975)
harry4health 8 months ago
LDS church teaches:
"Those who marry in the holy temple and are faithful to the covenants they make there will become gods and goddesses. They will be exalted and will have all power."
-Young Women Manual 3, Lesson 18 on LDS.org 11/8/10
"They shall be GODS, because they have ALL power' - D&C 132:20–21
harry4health 8 months ago
I don't think Ravi spoke at LDS General Conference. I think it was some other LDS Church gathering. Can U share the specifics? I know he spoke at some LDS or LDS Church meeting, but I don't know thew details of where, when, what type of meeting. If it was GenConf, then his talk should be in LDS Church mag, Ensign.
harry4health 8 months ago
@harry4health You are right.That could have been a fireside or something but not GenCon as they claimed.
FOTOFOTA 8 months ago
@rurne if you wouldnt mind sharing, please explain your reasoning, including knowledge of geology
MrPs103 8 months ago
@rurne and atheists story of saying science hs facts against god are just as tired. I agree, one cannot make the horse drink, but at least i may share how refreshing the water is
MrPs103 8 months ago
@rurne what i said was not that you read. What i said was you do not know God, and i mean that sincerely, because if you had relationship with Him as i do, you would not speak in such ways, but continuously praise him for being amazing. Btw do u agree that even though a man reads, he may or may not understand?
MrPs103 8 months ago
@MrPs103
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can also lead a man to the fountain of knowledge, but if he chooses to gargle & spit, instead of drink, you can't force him to swallow.
I've had just as much experience with your deity as you have, and a much more intimate relationship with metaphysics and philosophy at large.
If you choose to enjoy your mass-hypnosis at church every week, that's your choice. But your stories are tired and anecdotal. Study geology.
Rurne 8 months ago
@tallliza so when you are thinking, are you not speaking words to yourself in defense of the thoughts you wish to believe? The same effect with this prayer. As a note, why comment on the prayers of christ when you dont understand God?
MrPs103 8 months ago
He defends the bible, which is a man-made concoction. They picked and chose what was fitting into scriptures and what was not, and threw away, what was embarrassing. If you use the same process, one can made Playboy into a model of morality.
tallliza 8 months ago
i dont understand ravi's explaination...how is it that the being of God be separated into three? case in point, Jesus on earth, and the Holy Spirit coming after Jesus' death. And Jesus praying to the Father at the garden of Gethsemane.
wuhoolalalala 8 months ago
@wuhoolalalala jesus was not praying to a separate being for the sake of himself, but he was praying FOR us TO himself. the bible talks about praying continuously, and so Jesus was taking our place, not only on the cross, but also in prayer, making intercession for us. as others said, it is hard to wrap the human mind around the concept of the trinity, but it becomes more clear as you see the attributes of water. as ice, as liquid, as steam, it is still water, but it takes on 3 forms.
MrPs103 8 months ago
@MrPs103 but he was praying FOR us TO himself.. ,,,,,that`s a good one. How did he do that??.My father, who is me. I am in heaven, allowed be my name, My will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. I will give me today my daily bread...
You should start a reality show, LOL
tallliza 8 months ago
@wuhoolalalala I do, its gibberish?
myironlungca 8 months ago
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history and archaeology tells us all religions are made up by men
mcdinkity 9 months ago
athiests do not believe in god so there is no point debating.
athiest are gods who are free from any explainations and are not under anyones command as they are self dictators.
They can do or say anything
GARAMLAWRA 9 months ago
@GARAMLAWRA
darlingmad 8 months ago
I'm my parent's son, my brothers' brother, and my cousins' cousin. I am still myself, fully secure in my being, but three different things for three different purposes. Such is the Trinity.
TheDeltaDawg 9 months ago
Ravi speaks at the Lds church
jonnygotz2343 9 months ago
God the Father,son and spirirt.. who made the mother Pregnant? the father and the son are one.. so Both of them are the same person....and I can also say the son made his mom pregnant?? no actualy the father did it.. but but but the son also the father.. and the father is the son.. hmmm?? who had sex with the mother.. mm both of them?? can u say you had sex with your mom and she got pregnant and when she gave birth taada!!!.. here you are again. I tell u your mom really in trouble!!
GoodBinGood 11 months ago
pride is a big problem for man, any one including my self can destroy our own image with out knowing about it, by nature we are fallen. People like Ravi and other big-shots are doing there best but sometime they do bad stuff too and people like to make judgment on the bases of there mistakes. We are not perfect but we have Jesus who is in every scene is and always will be PERFECT, look UP TO HIM Do the Things He did and Told us to do you will never be disappointed.
nishantruel 1 year ago
pride is a big problem for man, any one including my self can destroy our own image with out knowing about it, by nature we are fallen. People like Ravi and other big-shots are doing there best but sometime they do bad stuff too and people like to make judgment on the bases of there mistakes. We are not perfect but we have Jesus who is in every scene is and always will be PERFECT, look UP TO HIM Do the Things He did and Told us to do you will never be disappointed.
nishantruel 1 year ago
I would have simply said God is the Father, Son and Spirit in One. What is so hard to comprehend just like water is in not solid (ice) , liquid (water), and gas (steam) so imagine the divinity of God. The substance of water is mentioned in the Holy scripture, I believe for a time like now : )
wwechi 1 year ago 9
@wwechi Right, is that like the original star wars series is real while the last 3 movies are not? I still don't get it. Maybe thats because i am not a completely gullible half wit.
myironlungca 1 year ago
@wwechi Oh yeah. Sssshhh, Santa's not real.
myironlungca 1 year ago
@myironlungca you are not a gullable half wit. and nor am I. Christ said "that all those who hear the truth hear my voice, and all those who hear my voice hear the truth". Let me guess you believe in Evolution- the fact that there was "nothing" and then it just exploded lol and the monkey I see in the zoo in a years to come will evolve to be the bus driver or a medical doctor lol give me a break. and research what you believe in.
wwechi 1 year ago
@wwechi Sorry before i waste my time talking to someone who is obviously a brainwashed twit please let me know how much research you have done on the subject of evolution or cosmology? Just don't want to get bored explaining things to a five year old mentality. As for what Christ said.. Circular completely, and christ is a figment of your over active imagination. Go and see a physciatrist please.
myironlungca 1 year ago
@myironlungca "the only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it" Edmund Spencer also elaborates if you do your research. Instead of being pumped with what somebody tells u or u catch a glimpse of on youtube. I sincerely hope that you do find The Way, The Truth and The Life...
wwechi 1 year ago
@wwechi "The ultimate slave is one who does not know they are a slave". Don't remember where the quote came from but i think if you look around you (ie globally) you will find the arrogance in claiming the "truth" lies with you. The Christian faith is a minority faith and a dieing one at that. If it was so compelling don't you think we would all believe in it? I think you will also find that unlike most atheists i am very well researched and experienced in religion in all of its guises.
myironlungca 1 year ago
@myironlungca There are millions of professing Christians in this world. I guess out of 6 billion we are a minority. Yes I believe is absolute truth. But what you believe is your choice. If the fact I believe in the bible being truth and that makes me unscientific and ignorant, so be it. If everything alive is an accident, then what one believes does not matter.
GAboy2470 9 months ago
@GAboy2470 What frigthens me most about religious people is that despite reams of evidence dismissing more or less everything they hold as truth they continute to believe. Its the very defenition of being a brain washed zealout. And its not an accident, its called evolution. One day you will wake up out of your dream. Best of luck.
myironlungca 9 months ago
@myironlungca If I am dreaming, I hope I never wake up. If this reality is the only thing there is, then reality is the cruelest dream of all. A true Atheist would not be scared, or offended by the likes of me. If you are so sure in you beliefs in evolution, then why are opposing view points are threatening? Are you a true Atheist, or just anti-religion? A true Atheist would have no political agenda, and would be neutral when it comes to religion.
GAboy2470 9 months ago
@GAboy2470 its your lack of education that makes you so afraid, and why do i fight religion, because that which cannot be reasonably be justified retards us all, Apologists are faith based clowns dressed up in 101 philosophy classes designed to trick the slighty more educated sheep. You;re still not going to catch out the others, you get my respect when you dont condemn homosexuals, admit morality from the bible is a cherry picking exercise and be honest with yourself and the rest of us.
myironlungca 9 months ago
@myironlungca I am sorry the bible offends you. But changing what it says is not an option. Faith is not about making the message more pleasant and palatable to suit you and others like you.
Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
C. S. Lewis
GAboy2470 9 months ago
@GAboy2470 Right, so the earth is 6000 years old, slavery is just fine etc etc, or are you the typical cherry picking kind and will come up with some TOTAL bullshit as to why some parts are literal and some are to be interpreted. As long as you are slave to that idiotic pile of crap you will always invite complete scorn. AND do not talk to me about values, as an atheist i guarantee you i am at least as moral as you.
myironlungca 9 months ago
@myironlungca and you have no eternal desitiny...this is what we are all born to ask
darlingmad 8 months ago
@darlingmad neither do you. Sadly hope is not a replacement for reality no matter how much you might want it to be.
myironlungca 8 months ago
@myironlungca COOOOOOOOL lol
jferristube 5 months ago
Are you going to waste my time with the old, "you just want to be an atheist so you can do whatever you want" garbage or any other of the streams of garbage you god nuts like to spew. Do you all sing from the same play book ALL THE TIME. Its like you have absolutely nothing new to say and when you get to the end of the Anti Atheist Record you just play it over again as though we all forgot the first track. Its honestly so fucking boring.
myironlungca 9 months ago
@myironlungca so then you are saying that if you found God to be real, you would drop your pride and humbly do as He would ask of you? as i was once an atheist and i've met many atheists in my life, they would have a difficult time answering this because in truth if they found out God is real, they are then no longer animals and are held accountable for their actions, which would then end their reign over their own lives.
MrPs103 8 months ago
@MrPs103 What a naive and almost laughable view you have of reality all tied up in your fairy tale book. If god is real then he is a nasty, vile, and perverse sadist. Humans are the worst of all animals because they don't live in harmony with their surroundings. Why would your God create such a disgusting, self absorbed, habitually violent animal as a human? Wake up.
myironlungca 8 months ago
@myironlungca You have a raised a very good point. But what I don't understand is your barometer for the human condition. Explain to me apart from God how we humans are disgusting, self absorbed, or habitually violent if our goal in life is a hedonistic pursuit to an undisclosed end? Without an originating point for morality then can we truly be good or bad? Or is this standard you hold humanity to merely a sociological preference that you have been conditioned to since your meaningless birth?
FllwLD 8 months ago
@FllwLD Without answering the rest of your question explain to me your "originating point for morality", this should make it easier for me to highlight the true stupidity of how you think.
myironlungca 8 months ago
@myironlungca My question is simple, by whose standard is humanity bad? In order for something to be truly bad does there not have to be an absolute good from which a moral law originates and by whose standard we claim something is bad? To me this absolute good is God. I want you to explain to me how humanity can be so depraved without an originating point for a moral law.
FllwLD 8 months ago
@FllwLD "This absolute good is God", whose God, which holy book, which version of the holy book, which parts of which version of the holy book, you cant really mean everything in the bible is correct, by what standard do you decide? Common sense... God has nothing to do with it. And your "common sense" is simply a subjective set of values determined by your culture, experience and upbringing. To answer your question you can decide if something is good or bad based on amounts of suffering caused.
myironlungca 8 months ago
@myironlungca Why do you assume that because I say there has to be an originating point for morality I believe everything that is in the Bible? Jumping to rather quick conclusions aren't you? So what you're saying is that right and wrong are subjective, and you're accepting that there is nothing that is truly or inherently good and bad? The fact that I think a young boy being sodomized is bad is based solely on the value system I am sociologically conditioned to?
FllwLD 3 months ago
@FllwLD I think you have actually proved my point, morality clearly doesnt come from the Bible, it comes from good old common sense, and you nut bags have yet to accpet that clear and demonstrable fact. If you have to mix and match the bible with common sense then honestly what good is the bible? Stil the divine word ol god? Nap time over yet ?
myironlungca 3 months ago
@myironlungca Let me ask you something. If morality comes from God and the Bible is the Word of God, then prove how morality doesn't come from he Bible, which is God's word.
zachmando013 3 months ago
@zachmando013 Easy - slavery in the bible. Is slavery moral?
myironlungca 3 months ago
@myironlungca Did you also know that slavery back then was merely servanthood and did you know that many of the people choose to do that. I bet you didn't. If the Bible doesn't set morality would you like to explain what does? I am all ears.
zachmando013 3 months ago
@zachmando013 I really cant be bothered to debate someone of your stupidity and blindness. If the bible teaches morality explain to me how the least religious societies are the most successful. AND if you start mentioning Hitler and atheism converssation over. Anyway secularism and religious backlash is on the rise. We have all had more than enough of your garbage.
myironlungca 3 months ago
@myironlungca You make me laugh. You act like you guys are a cult and you are going to overthrow religion. If the least religious societies (even though all societies have some sort of religious group or individual.) are more successful would you happen to have any proof to back up that statement. What is your definition of successful. I live for God, I am successful, oh snap, I AM RELIGIOUS AND SUCCESSFUL HOW COULD THIS BE!? I bet if you did believe in God, the reason you left was selfishness..
zachmando013 3 months ago
@myironlungca I beg to differ my friend. No man is perfect. Even you! and Yes me to. The Human strive for perfection has always failed, there are many societies that are secular that are not successful. However thanks to the middle east and media, you only see one part of it. God bashers! and the people that follow! But i will say one thing about it your attempt to promote secularism also promotes, rape, murder of the innocent, poverty, etc. Survival of the fittest! I need to say no more
jntcollege 3 months ago
@myironlungca Slavery belongs to humans not God....we can see slavery through out history of man kind..nothing exposes the human nature more than slavery..I am not denying that slavery was in the bible but at the same time it has been through out history where there was no belief in God and where there was a belief. The answer for it is to see people as Jesus would, and that was to die for there freedom. There is neither jew or greek slave or free male or female but only one through JESUS!
jntcollege 3 months ago
@myironlungca What you just said makes no sense. Who said anything about me believing any of the Bible?
FllwLD 3 months ago
@FllwLD You said you believe in God and you are replying on the video of that apologist cretin Ravi Z. What do you believe in then/
myironlungca 3 months ago
@myironlungca It really doesn't matter what I believe. Is apparent that it makes you uncomfortable to answer questions without attacking other people's beliefs. All I was trying to figure out is whether or not you believed in right and wrong. It appears that you do not. It seems that you believe in the perception of what is right and wrong but you do not believe that anything is inherently bad? We just perceive it as such because that it was we were conditioned to do?
FllwLD 3 months ago
@FllwLD Some things aren't perception,Killing a baby for no reason isn't perception IF anyone would agree to such, all societies( civilized) would call it murder.in us all weather we believe in God or not has a built in Moral aspect about us that we can't explain. However the only thing that changes that moral out look is culture and society usually based off of one persons evil thought or act. There for if perception was always relevant the human population would have been destroyed by now!
jntcollege 3 months ago
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@myironlungca My question is simple, by whose standard is humanity bad? In order for something to be truly bad does there not have to be an absolute good from which a moral law originates and by whose standard we claim something is bad? To me this absolute good is God. I want you to explain to me how humanity can be so depraved without an originating point for a moral law.
FllwLD 8 months ago
@wwechi It is sooo hard because you can't count THREE individuasl as one person.Yes!!You could be saying one family, but one person?Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FOTOFOTA 8 months ago
@FOTOFOTA The Trinity is NOT "one person".
There are three Persons:
*Matt 28:19
In only ONE true God who exists:
* Deut 6:4-5, Isa 43-47, James 2:19
These three Persons who are the ONE God are:
* God the Father- John 4:23-24, Rom 1:7
* God the Son, Jesus- John 1:1-14; 8:58; 20:28
* God the Holy Spirit- Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor 3:17 Modalists beleive 1 PERSON in 3 MODES/OFFICES, as 1 person could be a manager, club president & a father. That is NOT the Trinity.
harry4health 8 months ago
@harry4health @"These three Persons who are the ONE God" Wrong. Jesus said the Father is the ONLY true God. He didn't include himself or the Holy Ghost.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish- First Presidency member James E Faust said in the official April 1984 LDS Church's General Conference:
"The First Vision confirms the fact there are THREE *separate* GODS: God the Father..; Jesus the Christ...; and the Holy Ghost"
- James E. Faust, "The Magnificent Vision Near Palmyra," Ensign, May 1984
3 LDS Personages are 3 GODS.
Give an upfront, honest answer- does the LDS Church thru Ensign from General Conference teach they're 3 separate GODS?!
harry4health 8 months ago
@majinish-PLZ do more than assert. I gave scriptures-LOOK THEM ALL UP & READ! It isn't worthwhile discussion to have U ignore all passages I listed on Jesus, the Holy Spirit,etc. Be honest & do some homework,please. Father is the only true God, Jesus is (1 Jn-"the TRUE God") & HSpirit is(Acts 5, 2 Cor 3:17)
R U Mormon? LDS Church claims many true, literal GODS:
"Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all Gods."-LDS Church:New Testament Stories,People to Know
"The Gods"-LDS Abr 4-5
harry4health 8 months ago
@harry4health The thing is I've already looked up the scriptures people attempt to use so many times and believe me, those scriptures are misunderstood by trinitarians. No, I'm not Mormon. He was the prophet that put the Golden Plates together, father of Moroni, but thanks for calling me the name of a great man. I'm a member of Jesus Christ's church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish -PT 2: UR slant on "Mormon"- LDS Church: "MORMON Channel", MORMON*org, pamphlet "What of the MMORMONS" & "What the MORMONS Think of Christ" The first version of MORMON*org was MORMONS*org (Internet Archive). The rest is more empty than the first slant on Mormon. U evaded every point & reference & gave an empty post.
harry4health 7 months ago
@majinish -They R not misunderstood by Trinitarians. The plainest of them is monotheism, which LDS polytheists reject by claiming many 'true' Gods & goddesses (Ensign 3/08, p68, LDS Abr 4-5, D&C 132, etc). LDS Church claims Father/Son/Holy 'Ghost' R 3 literal Gods, so issue is how many true Gods: Isa 43-47 is plain. Trinity post was not to U. I showed U the Holy Spirit & Jesus are designated literal God & LDS Church is polytheist.
"I am the FIRST and I am the LAST; "Besides Me there is NO God"
harry4health 7 months ago
@harry4health Since the Bible doesn't teach trinitarianism, yes, trinitarians do misunderstand these verses. We LDS are monotheistic, not trinitarian.
And on your quote from the scriptures there's a similar scripture in Zephaniah 2 except it's about a city even though there was way more than one city then as well as in Isaiah 47. Your interpretation on Isaiah 44 is incorrect
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish - U vaguely alluded to Zeph 2 with no specifics, name or verses. Useless to test (Acts 17:11). U said "SIMILAR", which means differences, which means we must be careful to see the differences as well- in all of Isa 43-47. Very weak. Isa 44:6 is quite specific & detailed- FIRST & LAST God, NO others, NONE before/after, etc. U haven't proven my view on Isa 44 is "incorrect"- U gave vague allusions, don't deal w/specifics of each text for differences, etc. That isn't obeying 2 Tim 2:15.
harry4health 7 months ago
@harry4health When I said similar I meant the only difference was it wasn't talking about God. I told you why you -are- incorrect about your interpretation.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish- Some vague 'divine beings' R not literal Gods as fully defined in LDS Church.
Ps 82- They "JUDGE *UNJUSTLY*", R SINFUL & will DIE. LDS church teaches exalted Gods are perfect & do NOT sin & WON'T die. It says "U ARE", not will be, as LDS Godhood teaches.
Jesus used "a priori" argument & he said if Bible can call men gods, why complain when he said he is the SON OF God.
Exod 7:1 uses god FIGURATIVELY & J Smith did too- "I will be GOD to you, and if U don't like it, U must lump it'.
harry4health 7 months ago
@harry4health If you read verse 7 you'll see verse 2 refers to men, not the other gods mentioned in verse 1. Why do we judged others unjustly? That's the question asked.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish -Ps 82: LDS Church officially teaches LDS are NOT Gods yet. D&C 132, etc.
Ps 82 says "ARE", but they "are" NOT exalted LDS Gods
Ps 82 context has "gods" in vss 2 & 6. U skipped that. The clear subject of the Psalmist was the men who judged unjustly but would DIE. That is shown in between vss 2 & 6 & after. Ex 7:1 uses "god" in a FIGURATIVE of a MORTAL man.
Ps 82- WHO in ISRAEL were given law & dealt UNJUSTLY & would DIE?
Ps 82:5-6: 'U ARE gods-but U shall DIE'
Ps 82 were mortal men
harry4health 7 months ago
@harry4health Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
These can't be false idols since God dwells with them. Scriptures like Isaiah 44:6 do not say there are no other divine beings. Moses and Elijah certainly had a divine nature when Jesus took Peter, James, and John with him which made them divine beings. Isaiah 44:6 simply shows the supremacy Jesus has over all other beings minus the Father.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish -LDS R divided:
"we don't worship ANYONE else [besides "our Heavenly Father"]"-postsits101
VS:
"we worship CHRIST"-'majinish' THEN
VS.
"we worship one God who is the Father" - majinish NOW
LDS aren't unified & U contradict URself.
BOM says to worship JESUS & it does NOT include Father & HG- BOM 2 Nephi 25:29, 3 Nephi 11:17
Mormons are contradictory, unclear, etc- worship 1,3 or LDS Gods? How if at all on which Gods?
"worship HIM [Jesus] with all your might”- 2 Nephi 25:29
harry4health 7 months ago
@harry4health When you worship the Father in Christ's name you're worshiping Christ. If you accept the Son you're to accept the Father. If you accept the Father you're to accept the Son.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish - YOU were unclear at best past vs now.
I know that's how your LDS Church explains it, but that doesn't stick to the texts of the 1830 Book of Mormon or the New Testament of the Bible. BOM 2 Nephi 25:29 is DIRECT TO Jesus :Worship HIM [Jesus]" & they fell down before JESUS "and did worship HIM" in BOM 3 Nephi 11:17. It was NOT some direct worship of the Father and THUS 'worship' Jesus. Sorry, but U dodged DIRECT passages for the rationalizations of POST-BOM Mormonism.
harry4health 7 months ago
@majinish -"You shall fear only YAHWEH ['Jehovah'] your ELOHIM; ... HIM [SINGULAR] and swear by HIS [SINGULAR] name [SINGULAR]."
- Deut 6:13 NASB
"You shall fear Yahweh your ELOHIM; you shall serve HIM [singular] and cling to HIM [SINGULAR], and you shall swear by HIS [SINGULAR] name [SINGULAR]."
- Deut 10:20
Ex 23:19 specifically uses "LORD your God"/YAHWEH your ELOHIM"
Bible NEVER splits Elohim & Yahweh/'Jehovah' into 2 separate Gods, as LDS Church does. 2 names for the SAME literal God.
harry4health 7 months ago
@majinish- Compare Isa 10 w/Ps 82. SAME things about mortals as Ps 82:2,6 'gods'. Enact evil laws/decrees, just unjustly w/needy & poor (Isa 10:1-3).
Ps 58-VERY similar points w/'gods'! It also calls these FIGURATIVE 'gods' as MORTALS/"sons of men" who don't judge uprightly, use violence, are "wicked" & have "poison". Psalmist asks God to BREAK them & take vengeance & God will judge the earth (Also in Ps 82:8). Also see Ps 94:20.
Ps 82 & Ps 58 w/Isa 10/etc show FIGURATIVE 'gods' R sinful men
harry4health 7 months ago
@harry4health It's still monotheism because we worship one God who is the Father in the name of the Son Jesus Christ.
majinish 7 months ago
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harry4health 7 months ago
@majinish -"It's still monotheism because we worship one God who is the Father".
* POLYTHEISM: poly-many / theism-god (from theos) = many gods
* "the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods."
- Random House College Dictionary
LDS: 3 Gods of Father/Son/Holy Ghost (Ensign 3/08 p 68), Abraham, Isaac & Jacob are 3 Gods & we can become literal Gods & goddesses as literal Gods (D&C 132, Gospel Principles ch 47, Achieving Celestial Marriage), "the Gods" create(LDS Abr 4-5)
POLYtheism
harry4health 7 months ago
@harry4health We're monotheistic while you're a trinitarian. No, trinitarianism isn't monotheistic. Your belief is in a 3-in-1 God while monotheism is strictly worshiping ONE God, not 3-in-1.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish no, you are henotheistic. you believe in MANY gods and you choose to worship one (at a time).
christianity is monotheistic (i and the father are one - Jesus). you just can't escape it. you don't know what to do with the fact that God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ALSO God (all 3 persons are 1 being) but you cannot escape the fact that Jesus explicitly teaches 2 things: they are distinct and they are One, not JUST in purpose but in BEING.
anonazero 6 months ago
@majinish also, YHWH is a plural word for the one God. this idea wasn't just invented by Christ when He showed up on earth 2000 years ago.
anonazero 6 months ago
@majinish-UR shallow claim is false. U IGNORE my dictionary definition for LDS 'special pleading' REdefinition of monotheism/polytheism
"Monotheism (from Greek μόνος, monos, "single", and θεός, theos, "god") is the belief in the existence of one god,[1] as distinguished from polytheism, the belief in more than one god"
U dishonestly IGNORED dictionary I gave- polytheism is "the BELIEF or DOCTRINE OF MORE THAN one God"
Trinity- "3-in-ONE/1 God" (UR words)=only 1 God exists
LDS Abr 4-5: "the GODS"
harry4health 6 months ago
@majinish
Jesus didn't include Himself in the Godhead? Read the 17th chapter of John and read verse 5 and you will see if Gods Spirit opens your eyes, that Jesus has existed long before the world was even made. Hope you read and understand. God Bless You my friend
1988TheHitman 7 months ago
@1988TheHitman Jesus included himself in the Godhead but he never included anyone in a so-called "trinity". I do understand the scriptures which is why I do not believe in a concept that was forced to become doctrine in 325 AD by a Roman Emperor. They are the 3 beings of the Godhead but they are not a 3-in-1 God. God the Father is God of all including Jesus Christ which is Jesus actually says something about in John 20:17.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish
My friend let me ask you a question, and i am being sincere, do you believe the Bible to be the complete word of God? Not talking of the obvious perverted concoctions that others have brought in over the last few centuries. Thee word of God, i read the king james, its a very trust worthy version.
1988TheHitman 7 months ago
@1988TheHitman The Bible and Book of Mormon are the word of God. The Bible itself proves this. To say "complete" is inaccurate since the Bible speaks of many other books that aren't even in the Bible. That's something the early council didn't notice. They said certain books were of no value without realizing those books are mentioned in our now-Old & New Testaments. And odds are you, like the rest of us, read the revised KJV. Look at the page before Genesis that mentions King James and all that.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish
So if you have the king james in front of you then read Galations chapter 1 vs 8 and you will find these words... "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" So for this reason i would advise you to get rid of any other book that contradicts the Bible.
1988TheHitman 7 months ago
@1988TheHitman I'm good. I've read that before. I've also read verse 9 as well. If you're going to use the Bible against the Book of Mormon you should at least get with the "in-crowd" and use the verses everyone uses. Of course it doesn't do you any good. The problem with people using Galatians 1:8-9 is you're saying everything an angel says is false. You should look up Revelation 14:6. The Book of Mormon doesn't contradict the Bible. They support each other.
majinish 7 months ago
@1988TheHitman Many people look over this part in the title page:
"diligently compared and revised" Revised meaning there's a previous version.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish
Compare it with the greek and hebrew and you will find it is very accurate.
1988TheHitman 7 months ago
@1988TheHitman And yet still nothing in any on the false "trinity" concept.
majinish 7 months ago
@majinish -U previously said here: "the Father is the ONLY true God. He didn't include himself or the Holy Ghost". U seem confused. U defend LDS 'true' Gods while saying the only true God is the Father, NOT Jesus or Holy 'Ghost'.
LDS Church states MANY true Gods:
JE Faust of 1st Presidency in General Conference: "there are THREE separate *Gods*: God the Father-Elohim.. Jesus..and the Holy Ghost"- James E. Faust "Ensign, 5/1984, "the Gods" LDS Abr 4-5. BOM: Jesus IS the ETERNAL GOD, D&C 132- GODS
harry4health 7 months ago
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RZ is a predator, he plays on the mind of the intellectually weak. The average philosophy student would eat him alive. He is an absolute cunt.
myironlungca 1 year ago
@myironlungca
No offense, but ridicule isn't an argument, bro. If the average philosophy student would eat Dr. Ravi alive, then leading universities around the world would NOT continue to hold him as a speaker again and again.
If you want to challenge Ravi's talks, go to one of his talks near you, and just try to humiliate him in front of a crowd and show him up for the "fraud" he is. Otherwise, I suggest you take your religious prejudice somewhere else.
We'll be praying for you.
BassP86 1 year ago 36
@BassP86 Have you ever actually objectively listened to one of his so called arguments? They are absolutely pathetic. They always follow exactly the same pattern. Irrelevant anecdotal story telling for 2-3 mins, followed by subtle rephrasing of the original question followed by Christian rhetoric. I would love to go challenge the moron but luckily i dont live anywhere near anywhere he would ever be talking.
myironlungca 1 year ago
@BassP86 Leading universities around the world? LOL? Feb 2011 speaking schedule of the moron: Grace Fellowship Church, Houghton College Lecture, Circular Road Baptist Chapel, India, Adult Sunday School, Synod of Alberta Study Conference, Oxford University Mission, Hng Hwa Methodist Church Singapore, etc etc etc. He's not Stephen Hawking ... He's just a crack pot praying on the intellectually weak - telling lies and makiing himself rich. Count yourself amongst the sheep. Bahhhhhhhh
myironlungca 1 year ago
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@BassP86 Leading universities around the world? LOL? Feb 2011 speaking schedule of the moron: Grace Fellowship Church, Houghton College Lecture, Circular Road Baptist Chapel, India, Adult Sunday School, Synod of Alberta Study Conference, Oxford University Mission, Hng Hwa Methodist Church Singapore, etc etc etc. He's not Stephen Hawking ... He's just a crack pot praying on the intellectually weak - telling lies and makiing himself rich. Count yourself amongst the sheep. Bahhhhhhhh
myironlungca 1 year ago
@BassP86 While you are praying i shall be doing some work. Let's see which is more effective in the long run.
myironlungca 1 year ago
@BassP86
Ravi Zacharias is an idiot. He is a fraud. Whether it be LDS or a general talk on metaphysics, he stated it at @2:03: he talks about personal experience (i.e. ANECDOTE), to create evidence.
This guy babbles incoherently about "unity and diversity" and tries to unite it with a quasi-pantheism vs. monotheism. And yet saints are still beatified like Buddhas, but they aren't the Bodhisattva.
See where this is going? Where'd Yeshua go for 20+ years?
Rurne 9 months ago
@Rurne
Troll on somebody else's time, bro.
BassP86 9 months ago
@BassP86
"bro" me if you have an exact point. Otherwise, you're the troll.
Rurne 9 months ago
@Rurne
You actually already responded to my original point, but apparently you seemed to ignore that when you chose to respond to me.
Sorry, but I don't play those kinds of "games". Nice try though.
BassP86 9 months ago
@Rurne you do not know God, so it is hard to explain this, but i will try, & i pray you bear with me. there are many in the bible that were great men of God that were not written of for many years because i believe they were busy being alone with God. my most valued thing in my life as a christian is my relationship with God, and my further study of Him to understand Him better and grow closer to Him in that understanding. what is done in private with God is too amazing to put easily into words.
MrPs103 8 months ago