geerup and danmill, if im reading his views right, both rely in this exchange, on the faulty premise that God can do ANYTHING, this is not logically viable, is NOT supported in the bible or even in rational sense. If GOD was Prime Entropy itself, he would still be LIMITED, to the extent of his total energy and logical boundaries. This is a classic point that many arguments fail upon. On both sides of the issue.
wow... so, if a father sets his little girl on fire for defying him, its the fathers (and rightly so) fault. However, according to geerup, if god sets us on fire for defying him, its OUR fault...really?
@Danmill23 funny and beautiful. Beautiful because you did something Ive never sen any YT atheist do., for a brief moment, you managed to irk geerup to such an extent that it knocked him out of his christian shell, he spoke his true mind, his true feelings, without even realizing what he has done. Its like the ending to the movie a few good men, where Tom Cruise's character enrages Jessup and gets him to inadvertently confess to the crime.
I think the most significant thing to be learned here, is that nothing will ever make Geerup and his ilk change their minds.
That's not because they are stupid or arrogant (well, not neccesarily!); It's because religion has conditioned their minds into shutting down as soon as they start examining its doctrines.
This was a noble effort though, but If his own thoughts cannot penetrate those walls in his mind, nothing ever will...
@MrJmm999 Yeah it's interesting. When I made the "No Atheist has ever burnt a bible" video I WAS just being sarcastic, haveing a bit of fun. I did think people might take it the wrong way, but as a remedy to that I thought I'd put in enough hints that would make people understand.
The title alone should be enough. But I think Geerup was so skeptical and cynical of anything I had to say plus his "odd" grip on reality ment his went off with a confident lack of thinking. Strange eh?
I'm just floored by that. Someone presented the idea of god as evil to me differently, but the way that you did it here is .... amazing. Thank you so much for this.
"how does the sacrifice of one man cover the penalty of all sin"
One man cannot cover all sin, but if God Himself became a Man, and He became the sacrifice for sin, surely then you would agree His sacrifice could cover all sin?
I wish there were more videos like this on youtube. The (forgive the phrase) "PWNage" is beautiful. Even two years later. I come back to these videos now and again, but Geerup's response to this was just pathetic and so unsatisfying. He totally shoved his fingers in his ears and said, "la la la la" instead of addressing anything in the video. Quite pathetic.
i think that if people were made in god's image and we were made with the capability of evil inside us then, by that logic, god too has the ability for evil.
there is no way to claim that he is all good and all just.
however, we also have the ability to reason, to be moral in spite of religious upbringing.
there is no black and white, though..
but then again, i might be wrong and the whole concept of eternal suffering may be just a huge cosmic joke from an all powerfull bully..
What I don't get is that Christians say that the penalty for my sins is eternal torment. But Jesus didn't suffer eternal torment so how can He pay my eternal torment penalty?
If you incur a $1000 traffic fine - someone has to pay right? The authorities don't care who pays as long as they get their money.
If God requires eternal suffering because of your sin debt how come He never gets paid? Not by you, nor by your substitute?
Evolutionists say to me - Life just came from nothing all by its self, isn't that amazing! - I say that just doesn't make sense.
Christians say I owe God an eternity of suffering - No one suffers for an eternity as my substitute but the debt is paid, isn't that amazing! - I say that just doesn't make sense.
I agree that I can be very slow. I like to think this is helpful for the theist. I like to think that methodically going through all of the issue is going to be more persuasive.
He cannot help himself, but he surely does try and still he is only cable of digging a larger hole for himself :)
But on to business. He has been given PCS´former channel, so I´m guessing I will have to download his videos, as to make him taste a bit of his own love for mankind.
I watched this video and then watched Geerup's previous video. I'm shocked. How could he not see the point when he made that analogy. The innocence of a child, not understanding why putting on lipstick was wrong, getting burned for it. If he can so clearly see the injustice in that situation, why not when it comes to hell?
In ways I see your heart and caring but overall I also see that your pride is your downfall. How do you tell a blind man what color is? There are things you cannot observe.You cannot know ALL even if you feel like you can or that you trust Science/others can. No one can explain Completely why they/you can reason, yet you reason. Your confusions just make you feel sorry for those in the Truth; the Truth of Jesus Christ.
Just watched geerups response...he just doesn't get it. Eternal burning is not punishment, its sadistic torture of the worst kind imaginable. Punishment would be banning your child from using the computer for a week because they looked at porn on there. No father (unless truly sick mentally like god) would lock their child in the dark and go to work on them with a blowtorch for as long as that child lived. We humans have developed morals far superior to the god of the bible or koran.
I do distinctly remember the aftermath of the Final Judgement being "sent to hell. This is the second death.", which clearly is saying "oblivion". It's in the infallible bible. So, which is it? Eternity of psychotic torture, an eternity of utter loneliness and darkness or just oblivion? Of course, why bother ressurecting someone just to go "Nyah nyah!" at them? That says more about the person choosing which will happen than it does about the contradiction, eh?
Ok fair enough. I'm not an asshole. I'm just practicing.
It's funny when atheists do it ...
Seriously - Two wrong don't make a right.
Dude it is a deception. It is a lie. The main reason I got angry with you was because I was decieved. I was tricked. It took me a min or twos worth of investigation to find out what was really going on. To find out who you were. I know what's going on but I had to be sure.
well, it's deception, but it only lasts a second, it's like telling a lie to an audience when they can tell by the look on my face that i'm lying. then they start laughing. i mean, i make it sooooo gosh darn obvious that i'm not the original Cap'.
Sure. Btw at the sametime I was "talking" with you I was dealing with a holocaust deny-er. He was trying to convince me it never happened. You both got a similar response. Sorry dude.
That was an amazing piece of work, Danmill. So many people say the same things over and over again, banging their heads against the wall, but that was a real change of gear in the debate.
Just one small critisism. I had to search to find part 2. Not at all difficult, but maybe you can add ALL the links to the first vid, for the benefit of those who need to see it but probably won't make the effort?
How do you ask to be born??? This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard from an atheist. Maybe being alive alone is asking to be alive.
"Infinite punishment for a finite crime"? No, hell is more like a path. And are you also saying that a murderer should not get life in prison for a crime that did not last as long???
You're a joke, man.
"Bibles burn themselves" And so by your logic, atheististic "truths" will definitely burn itself.
No one is asked to be born. If you can't grasp that no wonder you're a christian.
Hell is like a path? You are making that up. No where in scripture does it say it's like a path. It says it's like burning for ever in pain and misery and regret.
I was not talking about punishment from mortals during life.
and your a blind sycophant who can't handle the truth.
What's the betting he won't get the point you made - or at least, he won't answer it. He'll answer the point he wanted you to have made , or make one up , and answer that one instead!
how did he own me? how do you go about asking to be born? Does it go like: ok, i don't want to be born, but since I am not alive, i cannot answer you. but maybe being alive is asking to be alive.
and the path thing, there is a wrong path that goes down and to the left.
I can't find what comment of mine you're replying to, but I'll answer your question.
Danmill is pointing out the gross irrationality and inconsistancy of the "morality", that Christians interpret as coming from an omnipotent,omnicient, and "perfectly just" being.
That he would punish people with no say in what they believe(atheists) with eternal agony, for something he has all the control over.
Christians invariably put their foot in their mouth in moral debates , geerup excelled at it!!
Hell is not a path. You either reject Christ or accept him. You could be Adolf Hitler and if you knew Jesus as your savior you would go to heaven. You could be a serial child rapist and if you believed Jesus was your savior you would go to heaven. You may say a Christian wouldn't do that but then I watch the news and almost weekly I see ministers and elders who molest children, etc. Hell is not a path. Even according to your doctrine and holy book.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Wether u like it or not, you have immortal soul, and for eternity, it will have to deal with situation with "GOD" or "NO GOD". Its not punishment that GOD prepared for you, it is where you choose to go. He wont force you to love him and know him, cos it wouldn't be love. HE said, he is ready to give forgiveness to ABSOLUTELY ANYBODY, for FREE.
I dont know where u see that unjustness dude. no idea. its not like he demands from you a human sacrifice or sticking pencils into your dickhole.
I thought that perhaps you two were in league with each other because the metaphor and his response "worked together" so well... Of course, I was tempted to post a response to the video claiming that the Bibles weren't created at all but came about by natural processes that will one day be discovered by scientists.
Awesome response! Christians burn books as well, so really this a huge case of the pot calling the kettle black. Just as I said in my response to all of this...
What Geerup doesn't realize is that the man who burned that girl for the lipstick, is raised in an area where it is considered a woman's fault for being raped if they are not covered because the men are unable to control themselves and the women were asking for it.
He came so dangerously close to the truth about what the real enemy is, that just a little further his religious understanding could have been crushed and he would have to pick up the pieces.
Because theories similar to -Earth is sitting on a tortoise and Turtles all the way down makes sense to Christians, just so long as they are told something like the last turtle can levitate and the Earth has to be resting on something, because nothing can just float.
didn't geerup say in his response that he "doesn't condone the burning of people"? or something similar? i call shenanigans on that one.
could someone with a strong stomach, some free time, and bit of editing skill maybe put together a clip-show of geerup justifying the doctrine of hell? doesn't worshipping his god the way he does tacitly condone the burning of people (albeit post mortem)?
his revulsion of what happened to that little girl was real. that's an opportunity to show him his god.
I have to admit, while I did realize that your first video was satire, it was way out of character to be sincere, I didn't get the undertones of Bible=sinner Book burner=God. Now that I see it, it just makes GeerUp's video that much funnier!
Who has the strongest argument against religion? Danmill, or Geerup by way of slip? If only humans were less prone to living with contradictions in their lives.
Yeah I hear you dude and I agree. My original video was 1 and a half mins long. I have said to my self I'll change to shorter more direct style. But I broke my new rule instantly. I did feel I need to make sure my message was clear, concidering geerups trouble with the first one. Thanks for you input.
Damn well played Dan. It went so beautifully with him even talking about "burning real people" and how he doesn't condone it.
Just as a side note; the reason why I've avoided burning books of any kind is solely because, as geerup said, it's a gateway to burning people. It's just like teaching evolution in schools results in kids doing drugs and shooting each other. It's scary to know how fragile our world really is.
God cannot be absolved in a literalistic interpretation of scripture. He caused Man's downfall (in his choice of punishment for the sin of two persons). It's like a father breaking a child's leg because his big brother did something wrong and then blaming said child for limping.
Free will is utterly irrelevant in this scenario because free will does not overcome the downfall and imperfections imposed by God, which must apply to will also.
I like and respect you Ob. So I'm offering you the benefit of the doubt. I'm assuming This does not mean what it appears to mean. You need to reinforce your ideas, becasue I refuse to understand with out clarification.
But I must say your opening sentance does not look good. I'm worried your going to dissapoint me. But I refuse to draw conclusions untill you make it clear.
Geerup (and Sable) found it 'disturbing' to see their own attitudes. Hmm.... I hope they understand how much more disturbing it is for us outsiders when we encounter this type of "logic" on a constant basis from religious groups. They saw themselves face to face.
It would only be more 'pathetic', if they don't understand this whole "mirror therapy".
So close yet so far. I agree, I looked and looked for sarcasm, I asked people, not one person though he was being sarcastic. I'm answering all the comments and still no-one thinks he was being sarcastic.
*shakes head and shrugs shoulders like desertphile*
Where can I pick up this golden tube thingy? Do I have to make a speech?
Well... I think you'll have to go outside to find a potato somewhere, dig it up, paint it golden, then you'll have it.
Yes, we want a speech! But not too many thank you's, and no crying!
Btw, since Geerup used the example of the burnt girl, he will at any level have stated the "burning" as unjust, so he can't really claim sarcasm now, unless he's actually a fake Christian.
Well, I'm sort of expecting that he might still turn up with another vid and deny that he missed the point, and maybe even try to claim counter-sarcasm, but we'll just have to point out how he used the example of the girl, because in no way can anyone claim sarcasm on the story with the girl - unless they're a total psychopath or something. (Or some kind of fundamentalist, apparently.)
I find it interesting that Geerup brought up the story of the little girl being burnt. He doesn't realize that what happened to her at the hands of her uncle will be like a walk in the park compaired to what his God will do to her if his beliefs are true.
Wow, I don't think you could have planed that better even if you wanted to, however I think due to the fact Geerup did not get the messages behind your first video I would guess he wont see the irony of how this turned out.
indeed, it takes skill to get someone to call their own logic "twisted", which is exactly what geerup did. he may never admit it, probably won't, but he knows it just as sure as he breathes air.
Somehow I fear the reasoning will not get through and the old excuses for God will attempt to fly again. I can imagine the cognitive dissonance flying into action as i type. I guess we'll see.
For Geerups response to turn out this perfectly, I think we now have the proof that you, Danmill, are in fact God. "It cannot have happened by chance!" :P
Your original analogy was clearly missed, but who could have hoped for a better analogy from Geerup himself. He should now be a little closer to understanding moral objections to the myth of hell.
well I do believe they believe in god, or at least have experiences they associate with god. what i mean is that i am not sure (as you exposed in this video) that they really by into all of the misanthropic sub-beliefs of their religion such as hell.
Yeah. I think there is a quite a bit of "cherry picking". Choosing this one, but rejecting that one. The flexible ambiguity is one of the great powers of the bible (and the human mind, I suppose).
But it is a strange bag of tricks.
Saying you believe in Jesus comes with extra bonuses such as a belief that snakes and donkeys can talk.
It's a slippery slope. Believe one thing and get two for free!
geerup and danmill, if im reading his views right, both rely in this exchange, on the faulty premise that God can do ANYTHING, this is not logically viable, is NOT supported in the bible or even in rational sense. If GOD was Prime Entropy itself, he would still be LIMITED, to the extent of his total energy and logical boundaries. This is a classic point that many arguments fail upon. On both sides of the issue.
theomegawerty 1 year ago
wow... so, if a father sets his little girl on fire for defying him, its the fathers (and rightly so) fault. However, according to geerup, if god sets us on fire for defying him, its OUR fault...really?
TheMysteriousAtheist 1 year ago 2
@TheMysteriousAtheist Funny how that works, eh?
Danmill23 1 year ago
@Danmill23 funny and beautiful. Beautiful because you did something Ive never sen any YT atheist do., for a brief moment, you managed to irk geerup to such an extent that it knocked him out of his christian shell, he spoke his true mind, his true feelings, without even realizing what he has done. Its like the ending to the movie a few good men, where Tom Cruise's character enrages Jessup and gets him to inadvertently confess to the crime.
TheMysteriousAtheist 1 year ago 2
Just came back and watched this again.. Bravo!
I think the most significant thing to be learned here, is that nothing will ever make Geerup and his ilk change their minds.
That's not because they are stupid or arrogant (well, not neccesarily!); It's because religion has conditioned their minds into shutting down as soon as they start examining its doctrines.
This was a noble effort though, but If his own thoughts cannot penetrate those walls in his mind, nothing ever will...
pallevader 1 year ago
Dan...did you have ANY idea that Geerup wouldn't "get it" when you posted the "No Atheists has ever burnt a bible!!!!!" video?
I really have a hard time believing anyone didn't get the point of that video....yet there is GeerUps video response.
I honestly didn't think anyone was this blind. Great video.
MrJmm999 1 year ago
@MrJmm999 Yeah it's interesting. When I made the "No Atheist has ever burnt a bible" video I WAS just being sarcastic, haveing a bit of fun. I did think people might take it the wrong way, but as a remedy to that I thought I'd put in enough hints that would make people understand.
The title alone should be enough. But I think Geerup was so skeptical and cynical of anything I had to say plus his "odd" grip on reality ment his went off with a confident lack of thinking. Strange eh?
Danmill23 1 year ago
i'm still kinda in shock. i have this thing when something really gets to me, shakes my foundations, i feel sick. i feel sick.
lambchopxoxo 1 year ago
@lambchopxoxo Make a video.
Danmill23 1 year ago
I'm just floored by that. Someone presented the idea of god as evil to me differently, but the way that you did it here is .... amazing. Thank you so much for this.
lambchopxoxo 1 year ago
@lambchopxoxo Hey cheers. Just watched the video again myself. ... Yeah it changed me a little, don't know if it changed Geerup?
Danmill23 1 year ago
@savioroftheworld
"how does the sacrifice of one man cover the penalty of all sin"
One man cannot cover all sin, but if God Himself became a Man, and He became the sacrifice for sin, surely then you would agree His sacrifice could cover all sin?
TheServantofiam 1 year ago
I wish there were more videos like this on youtube. The (forgive the phrase) "PWNage" is beautiful. Even two years later. I come back to these videos now and again, but Geerup's response to this was just pathetic and so unsatisfying. He totally shoved his fingers in his ears and said, "la la la la" instead of addressing anything in the video. Quite pathetic.
ScientiaVeritasEtLux 1 year ago
i think that if people were made in god's image and we were made with the capability of evil inside us then, by that logic, god too has the ability for evil.
there is no way to claim that he is all good and all just.
however, we also have the ability to reason, to be moral in spite of religious upbringing.
there is no black and white, though..
but then again, i might be wrong and the whole concept of eternal suffering may be just a huge cosmic joke from an all powerfull bully..
Pasteldqueijo 2 years ago
Maybe the saviour has some discount vouchers or something??
Nah it does not make a "lick" of sense.
Danmill23 2 years ago
Actually the whole eternal torment concept is a fabrication - The Bible does not contain it.
TheSaviouroftheworld 2 years ago
What I don't get is that Christians say that the penalty for my sins is eternal torment. But Jesus didn't suffer eternal torment so how can He pay my eternal torment penalty?
If you incur a $1000 traffic fine - someone has to pay right? The authorities don't care who pays as long as they get their money.
If God requires eternal suffering because of your sin debt how come He never gets paid? Not by you, nor by your substitute?
TheSaviouroftheworld 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Evolutionists say to me - Life just came from nothing all by its self, isn't that amazing! - I say that just doesn't make sense.
Christians say I owe God an eternity of suffering - No one suffers for an eternity as my substitute but the debt is paid, isn't that amazing! - I say that just doesn't make sense.
dffblog 2 years ago
I saw this this a year ago... fantastic.
I've come back to watch the whole thing again today. Really great, absolutely excellent job.
I really love the silent movie acting with the facial expressions :-)
It is quite a long sequence, with all four videos involved - many folk with short attention spans seem to fall by the wayside.
I bet it would make a great 'best of' vid if the relevent bits were spliced together...
SAHBfan 2 years ago
Thanks for all your comments SahB,
I agree that I can be very slow. I like to think this is helpful for the theist. I like to think that methodically going through all of the issue is going to be more persuasive.
Maybe not. In fact probably not.
Cheers.
Danmill23 2 years ago
That was excellent...
GERRUP's part on all this is quite disturbing though... I really do wonder if he is even capable of understanding the point you tried to make.
uvauva2 2 years ago
Fantastic work Danmill23!!!
drumminjim22 2 years ago
Thanks. Much of the credit goes to Geerup himself.
Danmill23 2 years ago
Comment removed
exodous02 2 years ago
Comment removed
exodous02 2 years ago
Damn god, what a brilliant video.
JRBendixen 2 years ago
Cheers JRB ... But this one was definitely a team effort. Geerup did a lot of the "heavy lifting".
Danmill23 2 years ago
He cannot help himself, but he surely does try and still he is only cable of digging a larger hole for himself :)
But on to business. He has been given PCS´former channel, so I´m guessing I will have to download his videos, as to make him taste a bit of his own love for mankind.
Keep those brilliant videos coming :)
JRBendixen 2 years ago
I watched this video and then watched Geerup's previous video. I'm shocked. How could he not see the point when he made that analogy. The innocence of a child, not understanding why putting on lipstick was wrong, getting burned for it. If he can so clearly see the injustice in that situation, why not when it comes to hell?
gt6303c 3 years ago
He's a - Believer!
Danmill23 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Actually the whole eternal torment concept is a religious fabrication - The Bible does not contain it.
TheSaviouroftheworld 2 years ago
good video , and your right to question this doctrine it was not taught by the early church or in Judaism.
see what about hell on my fav vids or the tentmaker web site,
this doctrine is surprise surprise a catholic invention ,and evil and not of God.
God bless
tonythatjesusloves 3 years ago
Nice one Tony.
Danmill23 3 years ago
this unjust & unreasonable doctrine is not only perpetuated by catholic but most christian denominations. Its a control mechanism.
ThirdProverb 2 years ago
Actually the whole eternal torment concept is a religious fabrication - The Bible does not contain it.
TheSaviouroftheworld 2 years ago
In ways I see your heart and caring but overall I also see that your pride is your downfall. How do you tell a blind man what color is? There are things you cannot observe.You cannot know ALL even if you feel like you can or that you trust Science/others can. No one can explain Completely why they/you can reason, yet you reason. Your confusions just make you feel sorry for those in the Truth; the Truth of Jesus Christ.
Zanthue1121 3 years ago
Just watched geerups response...he just doesn't get it. Eternal burning is not punishment, its sadistic torture of the worst kind imaginable. Punishment would be banning your child from using the computer for a week because they looked at porn on there. No father (unless truly sick mentally like god) would lock their child in the dark and go to work on them with a blowtorch for as long as that child lived. We humans have developed morals far superior to the god of the bible or koran.
mp9yq9tx 3 years ago
Cheers MP,
100% with you.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Brilliant...just brilliant...where is the 10 star rating?
mp9yq9tx 3 years ago
I do distinctly remember the aftermath of the Final Judgement being "sent to hell. This is the second death.", which clearly is saying "oblivion". It's in the infallible bible. So, which is it? Eternity of psychotic torture, an eternity of utter loneliness and darkness or just oblivion? Of course, why bother ressurecting someone just to go "Nyah nyah!" at them? That says more about the person choosing which will happen than it does about the contradiction, eh?
RyuDarragh 3 years ago
Ok fair enough. I'm not an asshole. I'm just practicing.
It's funny when atheists do it ...
Seriously - Two wrong don't make a right.
Dude it is a deception. It is a lie. The main reason I got angry with you was because I was decieved. I was tricked. It took me a min or twos worth of investigation to find out what was really going on. To find out who you were. I know what's going on but I had to be sure.
So dude ... (more)
Danmill23 3 years ago
Take this as another example. Sometimes I come across a video. the title might be something like this. "100% proof evolution is true"
I think I might watch, so I click. It turns out to be some christian telling me about jesus and the title has nothing to do with the content.
I ask these people if they think the title is a lie? How many do you think see the "fake" "trick" title as a lie. None!
Same with you're name.
Ok sorry for calling you names. What did you want to say.
Danmill23 3 years ago
apology accepted, and sorry my sarcasm pushed you to a point where you wouldn't trust me... thanks for responding doode.
i think all my questions were on your other video... do you mind going there?
-also- i do have compassion with your disposition, especially when it comes to "where did sin come from".
CapnnOrdinary 3 years ago
Ok sure. Meet you over there.
Danmill23 3 years ago
well, it's deception, but it only lasts a second, it's like telling a lie to an audience when they can tell by the look on my face that i'm lying. then they start laughing. i mean, i make it sooooo gosh darn obvious that i'm not the original Cap'.
CapnnOrdinary 3 years ago
Sure. Btw at the sametime I was "talking" with you I was dealing with a holocaust deny-er. He was trying to convince me it never happened. You both got a similar response. Sorry dude.
Danmill23 3 years ago
wow, that would be frustrating.... like i said, it's cool. see you there.
CapnnOrdinary 3 years ago
when you ask questions in your video, is it rhetorical or do you really want people to try and answer them?
i don't want you calling me a sh*thead again.
CapnnOrdinary 3 years ago
I've decided you're not invited.
This is because you steal someone elses name.
Liar-uncreative-envious-troll.
So fuck off shithead.
Danmill23 3 years ago
oh come on!!! i wonder if you hold all of your friends accountable who do the same to VFX? you're being a big baby..
do you think anyone believes that i'm "CapnOrdinary"? stop being silly, you silly savage :)
Joking-brilliant-content-sinner
stop overreacting and calm down and engage with me.
CapnnOrdinary 3 years ago
That was an amazing piece of work, Danmill. So many people say the same things over and over again, banging their heads against the wall, but that was a real change of gear in the debate.
Just one small critisism. I had to search to find part 2. Not at all difficult, but maybe you can add ALL the links to the first vid, for the benefit of those who need to see it but probably won't make the effort?
SAHBfan 3 years ago
What is the Socratic equivalent to "pwn"? Cos that's what you did.
Fordi 3 years ago
This sir, is a great video.
5/5 and faved all 3 parts
thunderpants10 3 years ago
Damn... until I watched this video I didn't realize how completely he did what you wanted him to. That was epic.
randomcollision6 3 years ago 5
How do you ask to be born??? This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard from an atheist. Maybe being alive alone is asking to be alive.
"Infinite punishment for a finite crime"? No, hell is more like a path. And are you also saying that a murderer should not get life in prison for a crime that did not last as long???
You're a joke, man.
"Bibles burn themselves" And so by your logic, atheististic "truths" will definitely burn itself.
nuff said here.
randallsnowb 3 years ago
No one is asked to be born. If you can't grasp that no wonder you're a christian.
Hell is like a path? You are making that up. No where in scripture does it say it's like a path. It says it's like burning for ever in pain and misery and regret.
I was not talking about punishment from mortals during life.
and your a blind sycophant who can't handle the truth.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Oh beautiful, beautiful.......You thoroughly owned him!!!
What's the betting he won't get the point you made - or at least, he won't answer it. He'll answer the point he wanted you to have made , or make one up , and answer that one instead!
I'm curious for the next installment!
Tobytrim 3 years ago
I did answer him, but he deleted it.
how did he own me? how do you go about asking to be born? Does it go like: ok, i don't want to be born, but since I am not alive, i cannot answer you. but maybe being alive is asking to be alive.
and the path thing, there is a wrong path that goes down and to the left.
randallsnowb 3 years ago
I can't find what comment of mine you're replying to, but I'll answer your question.
Danmill is pointing out the gross irrationality and inconsistancy of the "morality", that Christians interpret as coming from an omnipotent,omnicient, and "perfectly just" being.
That he would punish people with no say in what they believe(atheists) with eternal agony, for something he has all the control over.
Christians invariably put their foot in their mouth in moral debates , geerup excelled at it!!
Tobytrim 3 years ago
Hell is not a path. You either reject Christ or accept him. You could be Adolf Hitler and if you knew Jesus as your savior you would go to heaven. You could be a serial child rapist and if you believed Jesus was your savior you would go to heaven. You may say a Christian wouldn't do that but then I watch the news and almost weekly I see ministers and elders who molest children, etc. Hell is not a path. Even according to your doctrine and holy book.
Inqoinf 3 years ago
Jesus is the way. You could choose the broad path, or the narrow path.
randallsnowb 3 years ago
How do you know this?
Inqoinf 3 years ago
Nice job Dan. Loved it!
GooberTheAtheist2 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
DAMN!!! this is so wrong, that almost LAME.
GOD didnt make this world like this. God made perfect world with no fear or death. World you look at, is what WE made of this world.
And HELL - i think this is the most just thing that could be. God is love, goodness, light, mercy, water of life, everything good.
YOU made conscious CHOICE to separate yourself from GOD.
What YOU CHOOSE is LACK of God. Which would be: HATER, EVIL, DARNKESS, CRUELNESS, FIRE OF DEATH and PAIN.
duuuh..
KnowledgeAddicted 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Wether u like it or not, you have immortal soul, and for eternity, it will have to deal with situation with "GOD" or "NO GOD". Its not punishment that GOD prepared for you, it is where you choose to go. He wont force you to love him and know him, cos it wouldn't be love. HE said, he is ready to give forgiveness to ABSOLUTELY ANYBODY, for FREE.
I dont know where u see that unjustness dude. no idea. its not like he demands from you a human sacrifice or sticking pencils into your dickhole.
KnowledgeAddicted 3 years ago
I thought that perhaps you two were in league with each other because the metaphor and his response "worked together" so well... Of course, I was tempted to post a response to the video claiming that the Bibles weren't created at all but came about by natural processes that will one day be discovered by scientists.
FightingCreationist 3 years ago
lol!
Danmill23 3 years ago
This will be up there on all time favorites of argumentation.
ewops 3 years ago 3
Awesome response! Christians burn books as well, so really this a huge case of the pot calling the kettle black. Just as I said in my response to all of this...
pixelatedxdeath 3 years ago
"infinite punishment for a finite crime"
Wonderful!!!, you can bet I shall be quoting you in the future if you don't mind mate because that line was pure gold!!.
joebot1 3 years ago
What Geerup doesn't realize is that the man who burned that girl for the lipstick, is raised in an area where it is considered a woman's fault for being raped if they are not covered because the men are unable to control themselves and the women were asking for it.
He came so dangerously close to the truth about what the real enemy is, that just a little further his religious understanding could have been crushed and he would have to pick up the pieces.
Why do they choose such blind faith?
makaisenki 3 years ago 6
"Why do they choose such blind faith?"
Because theories similar to -Earth is sitting on a tortoise and Turtles all the way down makes sense to Christians, just so long as they are told something like the last turtle can levitate and the Earth has to be resting on something, because nothing can just float.
brutus149 3 years ago
That was just great! Well put, well played! Thanks alot for these videos!
spiggity 3 years ago
Thanks Spig.
Danmill23 3 years ago
has geerup responded at all
nailo1 3 years ago
I think one is comming. He told me to be ready for a "righteous buttkicking". He did add a smiley face after as well.
Danmill23 3 years ago
i cant wait, should be interesting
nailo1 3 years ago
Oh! Oh! I have a great name for it!
Uhm, something like: Geerup's Great Bible Burning Blunder!
All those allterations might be overdoing it, though. :)
Gnug215 3 years ago
We need a playlist of this epic transaction.
I'd volunteer, but I'd rather not have Geerup in any way connected to my own channel.
In fact, we should make a "YouTube Legends", and this should be one of the stories told.
Maybe the TF/VFX story could be one of them, too.
Gnug215 3 years ago
*nods and smiles and thinks*
Danmill23 3 years ago
Dear point.
I miss you.
Love, Geerup.
:p
ivarbt 3 years ago
lol!
v-cool.
Danmill23 3 years ago
I still think Geerup is going to miss the point.
Kudos danmill23.
miamimanni 3 years ago
Thanks Miamimanni
Danmill23 3 years ago
didn't geerup say in his response that he "doesn't condone the burning of people"? or something similar? i call shenanigans on that one.
could someone with a strong stomach, some free time, and bit of editing skill maybe put together a clip-show of geerup justifying the doctrine of hell? doesn't worshipping his god the way he does tacitly condone the burning of people (albeit post mortem)?
his revulsion of what happened to that little girl was real. that's an opportunity to show him his god.
niceonetom 3 years ago
Exactly. Funny 'ole world innit?
Danmill23 3 years ago
savepoint? now there's a phrase that should enter common parlance.
*****
niceonetom 3 years ago
Nail in the coffin. Thanks Dan. Sure you won't go to hell Geerup? ;-)
ILYIAB 3 years ago
I think geerup won't goto hell.
Thanks ILYIAB
Danmill23 3 years ago
I have to admit, while I did realize that your first video was satire, it was way out of character to be sincere, I didn't get the undertones of Bible=sinner Book burner=God. Now that I see it, it just makes GeerUp's video that much funnier!
ChuckMeIntoHell 3 years ago
Thanks, good to hear my character can be identified. Thanks. Means a lot.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Who has the strongest argument against religion? Danmill, or Geerup by way of slip? If only humans were less prone to living with contradictions in their lives.
chosetec 3 years ago
I vote geerup.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Brilliant job, Dan-- but I think you could have shaved the last two minutes off that video. Try tightening these up a bit, please!
Hobgoblyn 3 years ago
Yeah I hear you dude and I agree. My original video was 1 and a half mins long. I have said to my self I'll change to shorter more direct style. But I broke my new rule instantly. I did feel I need to make sure my message was clear, concidering geerups trouble with the first one. Thanks for you input.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Dude, you're batting a thousand in your last few videos.
CapeandCowl 3 years ago
Thanks Cape.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Fucking Brilliant!
cozmikzen 3 years ago
Fucking thank you! (:
(takes two to tango)
Danmill23 3 years ago
5/5.
JekyllAndHydeEffect 3 years ago
23 = (:
Danmill23 3 years ago
Danmill23 said: "believe in god but just "cling" to atheism?"
LOL! This is GEERUPs version of "understanding the atheist mindset".
I wonder if GEERUP dares to look into the mirror you are holding infront of his face.
You did a very nice thing for GEERUP there, I truly hope he appreciate it.
Brilliant!
Paxmax 3 years ago
Thanks Pax. I like to think I did him a favor. I hope he's honest.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Damn well played Dan. It went so beautifully with him even talking about "burning real people" and how he doesn't condone it.
Just as a side note; the reason why I've avoided burning books of any kind is solely because, as geerup said, it's a gateway to burning people. It's just like teaching evolution in schools results in kids doing drugs and shooting each other. It's scary to know how fragile our world really is.
Itslvle 3 years ago
Exactly, Geerup was being honest.
(double edged sword)
Danmill23 3 years ago
God cannot be absolved in a literalistic interpretation of scripture. He caused Man's downfall (in his choice of punishment for the sin of two persons). It's like a father breaking a child's leg because his big brother did something wrong and then blaming said child for limping.
Free will is utterly irrelevant in this scenario because free will does not overcome the downfall and imperfections imposed by God, which must apply to will also.
Hell is a Xian's own mind.
MenoftheInfinite 3 years ago
lol! Exactly dude.
But ...
"Interpretation" = twisty, turny, flexy, morphy ... empty.
This is the bibles greatest power.
Danmill23 3 years ago
It is torment not torture. It is an absence of God's revelation. Mere Christianity and The Great Divorce really help to answer your questions.
OblivionMon 3 years ago
Ob says "It is torment not torture."
I like and respect you Ob. So I'm offering you the benefit of the doubt. I'm assuming This does not mean what it appears to mean. You need to reinforce your ideas, becasue I refuse to understand with out clarification.
But I must say your opening sentance does not look good. I'm worried your going to dissapoint me. But I refuse to draw conclusions untill you make it clear.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Well played!
ivanisavich 3 years ago
Thanks Ivani.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Perfect!
CapnOrdinary 3 years ago
Thanks Cap
Danmill23 3 years ago
Geerup (and Sable) found it 'disturbing' to see their own attitudes. Hmm.... I hope they understand how much more disturbing it is for us outsiders when we encounter this type of "logic" on a constant basis from religious groups. They saw themselves face to face.
It would only be more 'pathetic', if they don't understand this whole "mirror therapy".
fonna 3 years ago 2
It's hard to see the value of someone who dosen't agree with you. But you must remind your self not to be too cocky, too confident.
But it's hard when you auto-create your own ideas, because you auto-approve them as well.
Perhaps that is another value of the socratic method - you take no position, you just ask questions.
Danmill23 3 years ago
My goodness... Geerup even managed to conjure up a story that skirted so close to your parallel that for a moment I thought he was on to you.
I'm still having trouble believing he wasn't being sarcastic, because.. no one can be this dense!
I don't think I've ever seen anyone shoot, nay, nuke themselves in the foot this bad!
This is total annihilation of epically epic proportions.
You hereby get the YouTube equivalent to an Oscar, the Golden Tuber!
Gnug215 3 years ago 2
Thanks Gnug. lol!
So close yet so far. I agree, I looked and looked for sarcasm, I asked people, not one person though he was being sarcastic. I'm answering all the comments and still no-one thinks he was being sarcastic.
*shakes head and shrugs shoulders like desertphile*
Where can I pick up this golden tube thingy? Do I have to make a speech?
Danmill23 3 years ago
Well... I think you'll have to go outside to find a potato somewhere, dig it up, paint it golden, then you'll have it.
Yes, we want a speech! But not too many thank you's, and no crying!
Btw, since Geerup used the example of the burnt girl, he will at any level have stated the "burning" as unjust, so he can't really claim sarcasm now, unless he's actually a fake Christian.
But yeah.. Speech! Speech! Speech!
Gnug215 3 years ago
Ahhh the glory!
Good point on geerup sarcasm.
*ting-ting-ting* "I'd like to thank god and geerup ... "
Danmill23 3 years ago
Well, I'm sort of expecting that he might still turn up with another vid and deny that he missed the point, and maybe even try to claim counter-sarcasm, but we'll just have to point out how he used the example of the girl, because in no way can anyone claim sarcasm on the story with the girl - unless they're a total psychopath or something. (Or some kind of fundamentalist, apparently.)
Ok, that speech has gone on long enough!
*fades in music over Dan's lengthy rant*
Gnug215 3 years ago
Great video!
hefftatious 3 years ago
Thank Heff
Danmill23 3 years ago
Hook Line and Sinker!
hanzo138 3 years ago
Rod, warf and tackle box ...
Danmill23 3 years ago
You are a devious bastard. 5 millions stars of deviousness.
urbanelf 3 years ago
Me or geerup? Geerup has yet to respond.
Thanks but ....
Danmill23 3 years ago
This was epic!
fav'd and sub'd!
fullygodfullyhuman 3 years ago
Epic! Just me, Boewulf and Gilgamesh!
Man I'm starting to believe my own publicity.
Thanks Fullygod.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Danmillgamesh!!
Gnug215 3 years ago
Wow, you destroyed him. How devilish of you.
gonjamon99 3 years ago
I aim to please. No geerup will proove to be resilient. I just hope blankets of blind faith are not used to repair the holes.
Danmill23 3 years ago
I certainly do not think Geerup will stop believing. But, surly, deep down he must know that Yaweh is an evil entity.
SSanf 3 years ago
"Hope springs eternal" "house of cards"
I just want him to be honest.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Hoisted by his own petard. LMAO.
eequalsfb 3 years ago 2
... and I'm saluting.
Danmill23 3 years ago
I find it interesting that Geerup brought up the story of the little girl being burnt. He doesn't realize that what happened to her at the hands of her uncle will be like a walk in the park compaired to what his God will do to her if his beliefs are true.
archraw 3 years ago 2
Exactly. So close yet so far.
Danmill23 3 years ago
i'll bet geerup does NOT respond. i'll probally be too imbarrassed
nvjsdvdfjdskfj 3 years ago
I hope he does. I hope he dosen't cover embarrasment with layers of blind faith. (which I fear would be a tempting solution)
Danmill23 3 years ago
Wow, I don't think you could have planed that better even if you wanted to, however I think due to the fact Geerup did not get the messages behind your first video I would guess he wont see the irony of how this turned out.
jakrum 3 years ago
Yeah geerup was part of the team on this one. I cannot even guess what he'll see and what he won't. But I'll respect honesty.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Very enjoyable. 'Tis pity he's atwisted.
DoctorPlausible 3 years ago
Yes 'tis. Well get him twisted all different.
Danmill23 3 years ago
You handed geerup a rope and he so courteously strung himself up with it. That was the funniest thing I've seen in a while.
iconoclastic23 3 years ago 3
Thanks Icono. We live in strange times.
Danmill23 3 years ago
What an amazing deconstruction.
TheLovePizza 3 years ago
Thanks.
Lol great name!
Danmill23 3 years ago
indeed, it takes skill to get someone to call their own logic "twisted", which is exactly what geerup did. he may never admit it, probably won't, but he knows it just as sure as he breathes air.
ur2blind2c 3 years ago 2
Will he see that, will he understand it that way or will he be to blind to see? You may have named the game.
I'm just hoping he can be honest, what ever the result is.
Danmill23 3 years ago
I am totally dazzled Dan, excellent, very well done. Cheers!
NLPNVC 3 years ago
High praise indeed considering the source. Much appreciated.
I can't take all the credit, geerup did most of the heavy lifting.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Man that was good.. Geerup misses the point on the top of his own head..
SofaKingLoaded 3 years ago
Thanks Sofa. It took two to tango of course. Yeah ... So close yet so far!
Danmill23 3 years ago
Check-mate. Brilliant stuff. Standing ovation :)
Somehow I fear the reasoning will not get through and the old excuses for God will attempt to fly again. I can imagine the cognitive dissonance flying into action as i type. I guess we'll see.
GravityofReality 3 years ago
Thanks Grav.
Honesty is what I'm hoping for. We'll see.
Danmill23 3 years ago
For Geerups response to turn out this perfectly, I think we now have the proof that you, Danmill, are in fact God. "It cannot have happened by chance!" :P
pallevader 3 years ago
Must be design!
Yes the ultimate irony is that the atheist turns out to be god!
lol!
Danmill23 3 years ago
Very well done Danmill. I really pity those who are enslaved by their own minds.
appybuddha 3 years ago
Yeah, some brains wire them selves up strange!
Danmill23 3 years ago
I guess your point was a lot better than I had thought when watching your original video. Good job and good video.
PoopShoot1102 3 years ago
Thanks Poop.
Danmill23 3 years ago
C'mon Dan. You have to admit that God exists now. You were praying for that response and it was delivered beyond all expectations.
EvolutionaI 3 years ago 3
Dang! You're right. He does move in mysterious ways.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Superb.
Your original analogy was clearly missed, but who could have hoped for a better analogy from Geerup himself. He should now be a little closer to understanding moral objections to the myth of hell.
Fived and faved.
QualiaSoup 3 years ago
Thanks Q. It definately takes two to tango.
I was surprised when he missed it the first time.
All I'm hoping for is honesty.
Danmill23 3 years ago
Fantastic. Made my day.
chepookadook 3 years ago
Mine to. What a team!
Danmill23 3 years ago
good video. I think they do know deep down that their ideas are completely misanthropic and untenable, and yet they cling to them anyway.
tooltime9901 3 years ago
Much respect to you Tooltime. Not sure they do understand. Christians often say atheists acually believe in god. They know he's there.
I feel you must be charatable and careful here. I feel they don't know. They don't understand. They really do believe what they claim to.
It's hard to accept some people believe weird shit. But flip it, do you accually believe in god but just "cling" to atheism?
Danmill23 3 years ago
well I do believe they believe in god, or at least have experiences they associate with god. what i mean is that i am not sure (as you exposed in this video) that they really by into all of the misanthropic sub-beliefs of their religion such as hell.
tooltime9901 3 years ago
Yeah. I think there is a quite a bit of "cherry picking". Choosing this one, but rejecting that one. The flexible ambiguity is one of the great powers of the bible (and the human mind, I suppose).
But it is a strange bag of tricks.
Saying you believe in Jesus comes with extra bonuses such as a belief that snakes and donkeys can talk.
It's a slippery slope. Believe one thing and get two for free!
Danmill23 3 years ago