I think this was the launch that John Young was really peeved about, he could not beleive they would launch in such bad weather, would have been very dicey if they had had to do a RTLS abort and come back into a downpour.
This was the first hint of troble with NASA decision making process, only got worse up to 51-L (with an encore bonehead play that casued the Columbia Accident)
There's a mountain of evidence that the Apollo moon missions were faked. I posted a partial summary of it on a science forum. Google "The Naked Scientists". In the "New Theories" section of the forum there's a thread entitled "Did We Land on the Moon?". The summary is on page 15. It's the 7th post from the top.
People who still think they went to the moon simply haven't seen the hoax evidence yet.
Commander Joe Engle - the astronaut robbed of his chance to walk on the moon! He was the original Lunar Module Pilot for Apollo 17 but as NASA has deemed this the last moon flight, they bowed to the pressure from NASA scientists to put one of their own on the moon, so they took Engle off Apollo 17 and replaced him with Harrison Schmitt.
I hear that John Young was more than a litte pissed off about this flight, he could not BELEIVE how they bent the rules. The rule is you dont go in rain, but they went in rain. The tiles cant take rain.
I read something funny about this flight. I guess it got down to about 1:30 or so in the count and the commander hears "What the hell is going on?" from the mid deck. Then they hear a lot of moving around. Seems the guys on the mid deck were sure the thing would NOT go with the rain in the area. They had lossened some of their straps :)
The commander was also suprised, at about that time they saw rain drops on the windows.
The report about the crew "loosening their straps" is pure fiction. Crew members do not loosen their straps in the event of a scrub...this is done by the crew in the White Room who must re-open the hatch (takes 30 minutes). Only time the crew upstraps themselves is shortly after reaching orbit. I don't doubt that they were surprised at the GO for launch, however, considering the conditions.
@Neptuneaus Incorrect. This factoid is true--cited by CDR Engle in one of his JSC Oral History reviews. All crew is able to unstrap at any time during the count--how do you think they egress in the event of an abort? One of the first things a mid-deck crew member does in the event of, say, an RSLS abort is unstrap and prepare to open the hatch for emergency egress.
@av8n4life You did not read my post carefully. I did not say that crew members are not ABLE to loosen their straps. Protocal is for White Room Techs to assist crew members following a launch srub and, of course, on entry and strap in. This is due to the awkward position in which the crew are positioned in the orbiter.
Obviously, an RSLS abort is another matter. Thankfully, shuttle crews have not faced a situation in which they actually needed to perform an emergency egress.
@Neptuneaus I read your poorly-researched comment just fine, thank you. ;-) You specifically stated that this report was "pure fiction"--while it was demonstrably true. So you were incorrect. Just because you think something is protocol doesn't mean it always happens that way 100% of the time. If you think this is bad, the things some crews have done during entry would shock you. ;-) Furthermore, you stated that the only time the crew upstraps [sic] themselves is on orbit--also false.
@av8n4life Perhaps I am wrong, then. Your passion for the space program truly comes through in your writing -- we definitely have that in common! :) Wow, imagine the crew really loosening their straps thinking that there was no way LC would give a go! :)
to rjy4356, im pretty sure, but am not certian that nasa's launch commit criteria was a liittle moree relaxed until challenger 51L. after challenger they put more constraints on launching. if you can find the launch abort from sts-41d they were about to launch in rather thick fog but obviously the launch was aborted.
Not quite...this was the 20th shuttle flight, Challenger was the 25th. This was August 27, 1985. Hard to believe they launched in such damp, dreary weather this particular day.
all had the STS number 51, only differences are the letters....
fact is, one northrop thiokol(SRB contractor) comapny's engineers found extensive fields joint damage on the discovery flight just before challenger's, due to extreme temps.
another fact is that that launch was almost as cold as the temp on challenger's fateful last flight.
you're thinking of 51-C in Janaury 1985 when it was 53 degrees which was the ocldest launch until Challenger. When Challeneger launched it was barely 36 degreess. There was O-riong damage found on many of the shuttle flgihts in all kinds of weather but the cold temps wre definitely a major factor in that tragedy.
if they were inforemd of damages to the o-rings on the SRB field joints, maybe thiokol would have modified SRBs at the time, and challenger would still be flying missions to the ISS, sporting the NASA "meatball" insignia on its right wing along with its sister ships.
The odd thing with the Orings was that they worst damage/blow by they had ever seen before Challenger 51-L was on STS 2 and at launch that day it was over 80F outside. So the cold was a big factor but the primary factor was poor design by Morton Thiokol and poor understanding of the joint flexing that happened at ignition. It was going to happen sooner or later and a few flights before 51L came VERY close to losing the seal on a joint..
I think this was the launch that John Young was really peeved about, he could not beleive they would launch in such bad weather, would have been very dicey if they had had to do a RTLS abort and come back into a downpour.
This was the first hint of troble with NASA decision making process, only got worse up to 51-L (with an encore bonehead play that casued the Columbia Accident)
Zoomer30 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is off-topic but it's space-related.
There's a mountain of evidence that the Apollo moon missions were faked. I posted a partial summary of it on a science forum. Google "The Naked Scientists". In the "New Theories" section of the forum there's a thread entitled "Did We Land on the Moon?". The summary is on page 15. It's the 7th post from the top.
People who still think they went to the moon simply haven't seen the hoax evidence yet.
Cosmored 2 years ago
Commander Joe Engle - the astronaut robbed of his chance to walk on the moon! He was the original Lunar Module Pilot for Apollo 17 but as NASA has deemed this the last moon flight, they bowed to the pressure from NASA scientists to put one of their own on the moon, so they took Engle off Apollo 17 and replaced him with Harrison Schmitt.
englishguy2005 2 years ago
STS-51I was the 20th space shuttle mission and 6th mission using orbiter Discovery.
First retrieval, repair, and relaunch of a satellite in orbit.
alb3rtlattimor3 2 years ago
I hear that John Young was more than a litte pissed off about this flight, he could not BELEIVE how they bent the rules. The rule is you dont go in rain, but they went in rain. The tiles cant take rain.
Zoomer30 2 years ago
I read something funny about this flight. I guess it got down to about 1:30 or so in the count and the commander hears "What the hell is going on?" from the mid deck. Then they hear a lot of moving around. Seems the guys on the mid deck were sure the thing would NOT go with the rain in the area. They had lossened some of their straps :)
The commander was also suprised, at about that time they saw rain drops on the windows.
Zoomer30 2 years ago
The report about the crew "loosening their straps" is pure fiction. Crew members do not loosen their straps in the event of a scrub...this is done by the crew in the White Room who must re-open the hatch (takes 30 minutes). Only time the crew upstraps themselves is shortly after reaching orbit. I don't doubt that they were surprised at the GO for launch, however, considering the conditions.
Neptuneaus 2 years ago
@Neptuneaus Incorrect. This factoid is true--cited by CDR Engle in one of his JSC Oral History reviews. All crew is able to unstrap at any time during the count--how do you think they egress in the event of an abort? One of the first things a mid-deck crew member does in the event of, say, an RSLS abort is unstrap and prepare to open the hatch for emergency egress.
av8n4life 1 year ago
@av8n4life You did not read my post carefully. I did not say that crew members are not ABLE to loosen their straps. Protocal is for White Room Techs to assist crew members following a launch srub and, of course, on entry and strap in. This is due to the awkward position in which the crew are positioned in the orbiter.
Obviously, an RSLS abort is another matter. Thankfully, shuttle crews have not faced a situation in which they actually needed to perform an emergency egress.
Neptuneaus 1 year ago
@Neptuneaus I read your poorly-researched comment just fine, thank you. ;-) You specifically stated that this report was "pure fiction"--while it was demonstrably true. So you were incorrect. Just because you think something is protocol doesn't mean it always happens that way 100% of the time. If you think this is bad, the things some crews have done during entry would shock you. ;-) Furthermore, you stated that the only time the crew upstraps [sic] themselves is on orbit--also false.
av8n4life 1 year ago
@av8n4life Perhaps I am wrong, then. Your passion for the space program truly comes through in your writing -- we definitely have that in common! :) Wow, imagine the crew really loosening their straps thinking that there was no way LC would give a go! :)
Neptuneaus 1 year ago
Comment removed
av8n4life 1 year ago
That cloud is black.
elkinsinbox 3 years ago
to rjy4356, im pretty sure, but am not certian that nasa's launch commit criteria was a liittle moree relaxed until challenger 51L. after challenger they put more constraints on launching. if you can find the launch abort from sts-41d they were about to launch in rather thick fog but obviously the launch was aborted.
nlucas4 3 years ago
wow, i mean I am a kid ,5,4,3,2,1, lift off!!
lelabu00 3 years ago
i think this was the mission before challenger's last.
nakazatoGTR 3 years ago
Not quite...this was the 20th shuttle flight, Challenger was the 25th. This was August 27, 1985. Hard to believe they launched in such damp, dreary weather this particular day.
RJY4356 3 years ago
my bad....
ever since the 20th flight until challenger's,
all had the STS number 51, only differences are the letters....
fact is, one northrop thiokol(SRB contractor) comapny's engineers found extensive fields joint damage on the discovery flight just before challenger's, due to extreme temps.
another fact is that that launch was almost as cold as the temp on challenger's fateful last flight.
nakazatoGTR 3 years ago
you're thinking of 51-C in Janaury 1985 when it was 53 degrees which was the ocldest launch until Challenger. When Challeneger launched it was barely 36 degreess. There was O-riong damage found on many of the shuttle flgihts in all kinds of weather but the cold temps wre definitely a major factor in that tragedy.
RJY4356 3 years ago
yup...
i'd say it is bad management on nasa's part.
if they were inforemd of damages to the o-rings on the SRB field joints, maybe thiokol would have modified SRBs at the time, and challenger would still be flying missions to the ISS, sporting the NASA "meatball" insignia on its right wing along with its sister ships.
nakazatoGTR 3 years ago
This was the last time "Discovery" would fly in space before the accident. It would not fly again during NASA's return to flight mission in 1988.
151L107 2 years ago
The odd thing with the Orings was that they worst damage/blow by they had ever seen before Challenger 51-L was on STS 2 and at launch that day it was over 80F outside. So the cold was a big factor but the primary factor was poor design by Morton Thiokol and poor understanding of the joint flexing that happened at ignition. It was going to happen sooner or later and a few flights before 51L came VERY close to losing the seal on a joint..
Zoomer30 2 years ago