Miniature Wargaming Review Part 2 - Warhammer40K

[CelebrityMindDeath]

more expensive than my crack addiction.

[nithia]

So if you think 40k is the game for you my advise is to watch some videos on you tube, find some forums about different armies, do your research on every army you think you might want to play if not every army, and lay out a plan to buy what you need so you can say start at kill teams and work your way up to big games. Take your time too you don't need to buy everything at one time; that causes unpainted armies. Most important it should be fun. (sorry i took up so many comments back to back)

[nithia]

And finally if you compare it to other hobbies like golf, bowling, movies, video games, it really costs the same or even less. It just seems like a lot because so many people look at the total number for an army at one time rather than the possible over time aspect. Example Bowling: $100 for a ball, $60 for shoes, $50 for a bag, $5 per game at 5 games a week for 50 weeks a year. That is $1460 by the end of the year twice the average price for a 40k army. And that is if you bowl alone.

[nithia]

As far as cost goes yes it seems to be a very expensive hobby game, and a standard static army of 2000 points that can never change (or at least not more than some wargear) will run between $200 and $800 depending on how you want to set your army up. But if you first consider the hobby part, the average person can not sit down and paint a whole box in one sitting so it will take time to get an army painted and that gives you more time to buy everything.

[nithia]

I probably should just make a video instead, but i think im almost done. But again they are out to make money first so if that means changing the rules of the game or changing other armies to make other armies not as good that were very popular before will cause the players of those armies to choose to either stop playing or (in many cases) pick up a second army that is more competitive, but unless you have every army there is going to be a time when your army seems nerfed compared to the rest.

[nithia]

Am i angry at GW for all of this well yes and no. I mean first and foremost every army's codex should be balanced so that it has everything you need to build an army to fight what ever you may need to fight (most can), but this also means that proper temporary changes need to be made to bring older codices back to a balance when a new edition comes out. No more ED.5 codex that are useless after a month because a new edition is about to come out.

[nithia]

I have noticed the codex escalation and although some armies like Dark Eldar and Eldar have not changed much in their ability to win other armies like Necrons, Nids and Tau are struggling. where as space marines, chaos, and IG have greatly benefited from the change to 5th where as before the other armies were better. But since they are out to make money, it is a business after all, they have to do something to make people buy more product. and that can be just new models or trashing a codex.

[nithia]

I started playing 40k 5 years ago and stopped just as Apocalypses was coming out. then i came back and sold all my stuff and started nids which was a mistake because the way the rules are now nids struggle to fight all the armor all the other players bring and i have only won a hand full of games so now i am going space wolves so yes they have gotten alot of money from me over the years but to be honest it should only take 1-3 months to buy a 2k army.

[Baitgsad]

Theres just no way a person on a sub-par to average budget can afford a 2000 point squad on one purchase. My friend just got 10 Space Wolves for 35.00 USD. Not a bad deal according to box's. My army was a work load found on ebay. I refuse to buy boxed Games Workshop products.

[ZaWyvern]

Hey Doremi... just wanted to say, good review. was a nice overview of the system without too much bias. Personally 40k is on the outs with me but glad to see you looked at it reasonably and gave it an honest review. Hopefully you can spare a guy or 2 from getting sucked in off of hype. Kudos.

[GenAhab]

According to some of my UK "informants," sales in the UK are up and, from what what I am told, profits are up across the board. However, GW has always had a firmer grip on the UK, which makes sense, so sales could be down in the US.

On a side not, I expect sales to go up substantially after the release of the new video game.

In any case, I don't believe 40k is on the way out.

[doremicom]

@GenAhab If GW does a 180 with 40K like they did with Fantasy releasing an across the board Codex update with the release or 6th edition.... I hope you're right & 40k sticks around. This year, from what I've seen, GW finally has competition in this space. While other tabletop games and game manufacturers have been around..... this seems to be the first year that I see large quantities of people playing other games.

Great debate, thanks for keeping it clean and informative.

[GenAhab]

@doremicom In all probability, they will. From what I have seen through my limited time in the hobby, the two seem to be used as test beds for the other.

[2LTDarcius]

pretty good review. and i quite agree the changing of rules/codexes is a huge killer for the game. my first army was blood angels they have since changed tones with units and kits. sadly it seems even old time players are chastised by GW in to buying new models or breaking/converting old time favs in to new units. GW is a good starting point for TT games. but at the same time its cost kills its play ability. new people cant pick up and play with a box set, its box set + "blister" sets.

[underfire987]

@metalninja1000 and thats all right, me personaly i find the fluff and such just not as interesting to me as i have found in other games and such. also the asmosphere is really , not my type, i used to think miniture wargaming was all competivie till i was introduced to other games out their, idk its just not my style sure i play to win, but i am also now and more importantly playing to have fun thas what miniture wargaming is for me now :)!

[Original50]

Very good presentation doremicom. You do point out the known disadvantages of 40k - pressure to buy larger, multiple model-sets and terrain, 'professional fouling' caused by highly complex rules etc, but the system and concept are essentially entertaining and easy to grasp. Maybe you could offer some advice or recommendations on how to address the down-side aspects and give hope to the potential and actual players who are under financial and rules-related pressure?

[doremicom]

@Original50 I actually was in the process of building a new set of army codexes that focused on the fluff of the black library and balanced every army. With GW's high sensitivity to litigation, those rules will never surface. The best thing GW can do is to take its own lead with how they handled Warhammer Fantasy, and release an FAQ for EVERY army at the same time in an attempt to provide some greater balance to the game.

[GenAhab]

What evidence do you have to back up your beliefs that 40k is going to die? Sales are way up and 40k is breaking into new markets. I am sorry, but I just don't see it, at least no economic red-flags.

[doremicom]

@GenAhab My original statement was really focused on how GW is treating the player community, and I was stating that if 40K potentially dies it is a direct result of that.

Back to your comment, I'd be curious if sales are really up or if profit is up (due to increasing base cost of models and decreasing manufacturing costs). I spoke with 10 gaming stores over the last 5 months just curious what games were selling, most of them indicated that the volume of 40K sales were down year over year.

[doremicom]

@underfire987 There are a ton of really good games out there that really do not get the attention they deserve. Some of them much cheaper to play. But I think that many people (myself included) have been burned backing a game that did not have a strong fan base and it die. Is 40K the end all be all? not by a long shot. We will look to promote a more diverse game selection on this channel, if there is a free game out there that you'd recommend.... let me know.

[underfire987]

@doremicom yea sorry for getting all angry and such , just all angry at them and such of late sorry man didnt mean to put ur reivew down and i am sorry to all the others i put down as well. and for games i recromend two game systems , the first one is 100% free FUBAR is the name its in a yahoo group but free download its pretty damn good. also their is shattered verse my personal fav just go to one of my vids and visit their forum trust me i think many of u will like the game :) sorry again

[doremicom]

@underfire987 It's all good, just remember that if you're hoping to get others into these other game systems, it's always a much better option to promote the game rather than chastise the player. The number of people who have an interest in table top strategy games is a small overall market. I'll run out to your channel to see if I can find these other games after I get through the rest of these review videos and get a hordes tutorial up.

[underfire987]

@doremicom alright , i am sorry , i was just being all angry and what not , im usally a pretty damn friendly guy just gw angers me though lol, wont let that get the best of me again, anyhow great vids and i do have to amit your quite onest with your reviews thats a good thing as well, anyhow if u cant find the links to the forums and to the game sites i will email them to you let me know if u cant find em and ill email em to yea!

[doremicom]

@underfire987 GW's practices are hugely at fault for the potentially soon demise of the 40K game. My review really and truly is a retrospect of Rogue trader forward, where the game itself was actually quite good and GW seemed to want to cultivate their community. I have dedicated at least 20 videos to faults with the game, or rather GW's incomprehensibly bad business practices in regards to their player community. It's why I could get through this video in one part.

[underfire987]

@doremicom i see , i am very sorry , i was arrogant and thought you were supporting how they are now adays , i do apoligize i should not blurt out without taking a deeper look into things before i go spouting off , sorry man about that :P.

[underfire987]

@doremicom i deeply apoligize and i am sorry, i thought you were supporting what gw does now adays and such and their rulesystem now adays, sorry man hope your not too angry at me , i should look into vids deeper before i begin to spout angry rants and such sorry man , thanks for being so good about it though :)!

[GenAhab]

IMO, all the new 5th Ed codices are superbly balanced. I believe GW and it's team have done an excellent job and I cannot wait to see the new DE dex, it should be fantastic.

[agent923]

Matt Ward= Failure to life

Other than how dumb Matt Ward is when writing codexs the game can be fairly balanced. I found that 4th edition and early 5th was quite balanced till the new 5th ed codexs came out

[TylersTerrain]

cant wait for warmachine and hordes! Good review. Very true.

[LesterWAR]

Review Fantasy next, they just released a new Edition a few months ago.

[CorpseFool]

I'm surprised you never mentioned how some of 5th edition has a tendency to assume knowledge of previous editions and leave out certain important pieces. As well, the player 1 then player 2 format, and the shooting phase itself stretches into obscurity with some of the rules (rapid fire, cover saves).

[jeremiahdrigg]

Great stuff B! Love the stuff you have been putting out despite work trying to drag you to an early grave lol. I feel like pulling my hair out everyday too! I have until august though. Then I am moving to CHINA!!

[doremicom]

@jeremiahdrigg You're moving to China? Permanent move or just for a month or so? Catch me up on Email.

[OrcPainterNerd]

wish i could see you do a new rules of 40k series from you in hd. lol but im just being greedy. keep up the good work mate :)

[SMConsortium]

Great Review man. I love the intonations to GW the company as opposed to the actual game. lol

[wargamepainting]

fantastic review i was really expecting DEATH TO GW from you but it was a very very balanced review with energy threw out...good job bro! thumbs up x2

[crimsonfist1149]

nice review. gotta admit thats the one thing that really annoys me about this game is how expensive it is

[doremicom]

@gaughknee I'm glad the tutorial videos helped. There's nothing more frustrating than starting this game and not having someone guide you through the basics. The first 4th edition 40K game I played was after a 8 year lapse from playing 3rd edition. The 1500 point game (per side) took almost 7 hours to play, and we still got a ton of stuff wrong between the core rules and the codexes. I'm hoping people can avoid a lot of that pain with the vids.

[TimmyTheNerd]

I just got into this myself with Assault on Black Reach. Still can't decide if I want to go with Space Marines or Orks.

[EIN771]

@TimmyTheNerd Space marines are awesome. Orks are too, but SM's are great

[TonPappa]

not bad. and i dont know if its just my computer but the voice and the video dont match so well. not a real prob. also im starting to get into 40k more. going IG. bought the codex and a army Imperial Guard Cadian Battleforce and about to buy a coulp[e tanks. i wanted to do an infitry army mostly but bc of the kill points its getting prity ridiculus. anywasy i dont know if you remember about that cryx army you sent me? (contest winner) but im building an army for that also and it is prity good...

[doremicom]

@TonPappa Yeah, not quite sure why the audio gets shifted. The file pre-upload has the audio and video in sync. Thanks for the compliment. And congrats again on winning the contest.

[WarbossTae]

Aw yeah! Awesome review, doremicom!

[doremicom]

@WarbossTae Thanks. I hope most people see that the pros and cons were on point.