Furtwangler's Funeral

[Lirico96]

Genius

[lamanodeonansequeja]

Nazi? Furtwangler, claro, por eso se limpiaba la mano después de darsela a Goebbels, lo hizo todo bajo presiones, no le quedó otro remedio, su posibilidad de exiliarse fue frustrada. Mira, los que llamen nazi a Furtwängler, deberian lavarse la boca antes de pronunciar su nombre.

[aosjimzaw]

What's the work audible in the last seconds of the video? I can hum to it, i've listened a lot of times but right now, i just can't say from where it comes from.

[christies111]

@aosjimzaw

Beethoven: Symphony No.9 End of the 1st movement.

[sam0xin]

We are such a UNFORTUNATE , UNLUCKY , FORLORN & MISERABLE generation for not having Wilhelm Furtwängler as our contemporary...

[mingweicello]

i payed a pilgrim to Furtwangler's grave at Heidelberg a coupld of years ago. the time when I saw his gravestone, the tears started to flow, and I knee down while singing the theme from the second movement of Brcukner's 7th.

[uhartchristian]

but you did not visit Bergen Belsen, Auschwitz, and the many other massgraves?????

[mingweicello]

@uhartchristian sorry， you do not understand the art of furtwangler great art.

[uhartchristian]

@mingweicello sorry but you have no authority to say this. I am a professionbal musician you are surely not. you never bothered about good phrasing otherwise you would agree with me. Furtwaengler just represednts the nazimentality and is a possibility for neonazis to meet on youtube.

[yupi45]

@uhartchristian

I'm not a neonazi. I am a man who believes in Jehovah and his son Jesus.

But this isn't any reason to end my loving for music. And Furtwangler made the best music in history. At last, this conductor made what he knew best. I would want to meet now some other conductor like him.

[dankerer]

what was that playing towards the end? i don't recall.. it is a well known piece, though

[fiawlty]

Coda of the first movement of Beethoven's 9th.

[AgatheLtb]

German joined the Nazi party in the same manner Russian joined the communist party. Most for survive.

Mahler became catholic, otherwise he couldn't have been director of the Opera of Vienna.

[uhartchristian]

there is a little difference to accept the catholicism and accepting and participating in the holocaust.... yes even Maria Judina, who was a courageous women and catholic did admire stalin. But she fought for her convictions and had a lots of problems with the regime. Richter and Gilels accepted the regime and did not fight against but did not like the regime. Nonetheless they are guilty too. Stalin was a mass murderer and they knew this.

[TourneledosRossini]

le plus grand chef d'orchestre

[uhartchristian]

you never heard Eugene Ormandy or Leonard Bernstein? And all the many others? No Furtwaengler was one of the best at his time. thats all. And he was one of the best because he had the berlin philharmonic. without them he would not have been that good. He knew that and this is the reason why he did not leave for the USA, as the best orchestra there was in the hands of Toscanini.

[halavey]

sorry i spelled his name wrong. A fine film gives you the life of Mahler -- Ken Russell around 1971 an English film, very good.

[halavey]

joeocho by the way Bairenbohm was jewish and so was Mahler 100% he only became Catholic to conduct for the anti Jewish Cosima W. H

[adhamfeteha]

What did Furtwangler die of?

[etiterum]

his widow once told a story, that he wasn't seriously ill at all.

[lupenzo71]

the real nazi is karajan not furtwangler

[cssa12]

Karajan was more reasonable and sensible

[TourneledosRossini]

exactly

[gs1984]

Sbagli! Furtwaengler era celebre ed avrebbe potuto lasciare la Germania, mentre Karajan era un giovane quasi sconosciuto ed ambizioso di fare carriera. Chi aveva più potere? Perchè Furtwaengler non ruppe con i nazisti? Sarebbe stato un atto di coraggio (che non aveva) ed una sfida a quei mostri, ma non lo fece!

[Karlemann66]

Giusto ! Interessante però anche il fatto che negli anni '30 un influente gruppo di musicisti negli Stati Uniti (tra di loro Toscanini) fece tutto per non permettere a Furtwängler l'incarico da direttore musicale del New York Philharmonic.

[gs1984]

Non è proprio così: Toscanini fu tra coloro che sostenevano, inizialmente Furtwaengler (mi sembra fosse il 1936); purtroppo in quel tempo Furtwaengler era già così compromesso con il nazismo che non fu davvero possibile nominarlo, e comunque non avrebbe mai lasciato la Germania. Continuo a ritenere un gravissimo errore il fatto che musicisti allora già celebri come Strauss, Kraus o Furtwaengler abbiano potuto mischiarsi con gentaglia come i nazisti!

[Karlemann66]

Non capisco cosa vuol dire "in quel tempo" (1936) "Furtwaengler era già così compromesso con il nazismo"

A che tipo di compromesso si riferisce, al caso "Hindemith" (1934), essendo stato costretto dal regime di lasciare tutte le sue incariche ? Oppure alla lettera aperta a Goebbels (1933) ? Oppure al fatto che dirigeva Mendelssohn anche quando esecuzioni di questo compositore erano già prohibite ?

[gs1984]

Lasciamo stare Hindemit etc; e allora l'ouverture dell'Egmont suonata alla presenza di Goebbels nel 1933? E il discorso pronunciato durante un festival brahmsiano nel 1933 che fu definito da Berg come di ispirazione nazista? E la stretta di mano ad Hitler nel 1935? E il ritorno a Bayreuth proprio nel 1936? Certo non fu un nazista, ma resta il fatto che si mischiò con nazisti, e questa resterà una macchia indelebile. Per fortuna ci fu chi ebbe il coraggio di fare diversamente!

[uhartchristian]

Thats right Toscanini did not want to have Furtwaengler in USA as a concurrent. But this is no excuse for Furtwaengler who would have been able to conduct any other orchestra in USA.He even could have created a new orchestra, as he would have found sponsors for that. His decision was not influenced by Toscanini or jewish people in USA.He deliberately decided to stay !

He was good enough to work anywhere and would have found work easily but wanted to continue to work with the Berlin philharmonic

[Karlemann66]

Where do you have this information from ? Especially that he would have found sponsors for a new orchestra to create ?

[uhartchristian]

there were a lot of orchestras in the unites states who would have been pleased to be conducted by a good conducter like Furtwaengler of course was. But he wasn t the only one and he wasn t the best. So he would not have been at the first place in USA but one of the good conductors. In Germany he could be the best , so he decided to stay and accepted to collaborate with Goebbels!!!!

[TheStockwell]

@uhartchristian Actually, you have all your opinions wrong. Nothing wrong with that.

[anonymusum]

He guys, when there´s one way to make the world better then it´s through arts, especially music. Politicians made this place to what it is now, not musicians. And by the way: Furtwängler thought it was his duty to stay with his orchestra through those hard times. In 1944 he emigrated to Switzerland as he couldn´t stand it anymore. So let´s enjoy, talk about music and the real deeper meanings behind it.

[audiophile71]

Thank you! The empty-headed junk about nazis has nothing to do with the brilliant music that this man made. If I had a time machine, I would choose to go back to April 19, 1942 and go straight to the Berlin Philharmonic!

[jorgeliebermann]

@audiophile71 Vasya.

[joeocho88]

No Yankee here. Just a NAZI HATER!

[davidoves]

Fuck you joeocho88

[foerster]

Wilhelm Furtwaengler was a hero of arts, he was a great man.

[jorgeliebermann]

@foerster I am very happy.He IS a NAZI !!!!!!

[jorgeliebermann]

@foerster NAZI.Ajjjj!

[PALSVELTA]

@jorgeliebermann

Troia! D' un artista sai un bel niente. Scava nella Tua storia, ne risulterà un fascio di farabutti simili come Te.

foerster ha ragione (!!): sei solo un lurido figlio di puttana - e Ti vanti artista? A gente come Te il mio vecchio maestro avrebbe detto una sola parola: cazzo!!!

[jorgeliebermann]

@foerster Maldito nazi !

[foerster]

@jorgeliebermann 3 messaggi uguali... hai il morbo di alzheimer? Vaffanculo vecchio ignorante idiota...

[jorgeliebermann]

@foerster SE equivoca.

[carlitoshyd]

Viva Furtwangler!

[jorgeliebermann]

@carlitoshyd Merjor no nombrar al degenerado nazi

[joeocho88]

Bairenbohm was NOT what I would call a conductor either.

KEMPERER was G*D when it came to interpreting Wagner, Beethoven, etc. By the way, Kemperer was JEWISH!

[swanningaround]

You mean Barenboim and Klemperer? Both are Jewish. Baremboim is more famous as a pianist, but is certainly a great conductor too.

[joeocho88]

Good riddance.

[billyguns2]

You don't give any reason for your disrespecting one of the greatest musicians of all time, but I suspect it's becqause he chose to stay in Germany during Hitler's reign. Should we also criticize all the conductors of American orchestras today for staying in America under the murderous, dictatorial Bush-Cheney fascists? Should the conductors in Israel resign in protest because of the barbarous murderers in control of that sorry nation?

[SatchmoSings]

@billyguns2 Israel a "sorry" nation?

Israel gets a five billion dollar CPU factory from "Intel" while all of over a billion people in the Muslim world (except for Turkey & maybe Malaysia) can't even get a factory to sew doll clothes!

Also, Muslim nations don't have symphony orchestras as institutions; they're racist towards Western Culture.

[sam0xin]

@billyguns2 Don't pay attention on  NARROWMINDET - cells...

they are kind of PLANTS...for sure. GREAT COMMENT !

[sam0xin]

@billyguns2 p.s. they even do not have any idea that WF NEVER joined the Nazi party and was hunted towards the end of the war...unlike Karajan joined the Nazi party not once but twice, to make sure it was done.....

[musicalme27]

@billyguns2 You are such an a-hole.

[latiniensis]

I understand your disrespect, you are a stupid yankee.

[AtterseeSommer]

das ist ein Musikant.

[billyguns2]

For me, the absolute greatest conductor and musician of all. My favorites are almost all German: Furtwangler, Karajan, and Bohm. I also think he gets abum rap as being branded a Nazi, when you could make a far stronger case against Karajan and Bohm. Music, fortunately, has no political agenda, and lifts us above such mundane and useless squawking.

[BrucknerEnthusiast]

Karajan was no Nazi; that has been settled in Richard Osborne's biography of him. I think Bohm's involvement with the Nazis was a bit more worrying, but maybe he too will be cleared one day. Bernstein got on well with Bohm, and Bernstein lost relatives in the holocaust; if Bernstein can forgive Bohm for political involvement maybe we shouldn't be so hard on him. These musicians were living in a terrible era, far worse than we can ever imagine. We shouldn't blame them for political mistakes.

[billyguns2]

Well said, BrucknerEnthusiast! There are many wonderful examples of these conductors' work on YouTube.

[BorisGodunov]

Karajan joined the Nazi party--there's even an official membership number for him. How can you say he was "no Nazi" when he was quite *literally* a member of the Nazi party?

Was he an anti-semite? Well, definitely not a hard-line one. But he was clearly an opportunist and did not hesitate to use the Nazi party as they used him. This is in stark contrast to Furtwaengler, whose distate for the Nazis is well-documented.

[uhartchristian]

Yes Karajan was young and wanted to have success and a possibility to work. He did take the chance to take the place of a jewish conductor who had to leave. Otherwise he would not have made career so quick. He is guilty. and he was an awful person. Money, his airplain, Jetset were his interests and himself the god under these people. He was clever enough to take a french jewish impresario after the war. That saved his career after the war.

[SiegfriedHorner]

Music has often had a political and patriotic agenda, Hanslick and Stravinsky notwithstanding. But if you're ignorant of that agenda, it would not exist for you. The issue of music's "meaning" is a whole other discussion.

[jorgeliebermann]

@billyguns2 No discuto sobre su calidad como director.Pero síiiiiii...era un nazi inmundo...!"

[joost07]

It's not nationalism it's just reality, I'm not German but I admit most of the greatest composers and conductors are German. And ALL greatest composers and conductors are European. We're the best, you know ;-)

BTW: Furtwangler was a hero, he saved several Jews by letting them play in his orchestra,and he didn't support the NAzi ideology.

[SiegfriedHorner]

Re Western music:that's a defensible claim. But it is also a simple matter of historical consequence. Western music developed and flourished in Europe. So what else COULD be said? As for performers, and today's maestros, it can be argued that the best are not necessarily European. And German? Mozart and Mahler were Austrian-a distinction they would defend.

[really12345]

setting the nationalism aside, I agree

[Martinou1975]

Best conductor ever ...

german of course

[SiegfriedHorner]

The claim of "best ever" is subjective, and is impossible to prove, if for no other reasons than that there are demonstrably preferrable performances and better ensemble.And when you further add "german", you exclude too many. But the Nazis loved him. A great maestro no doubt.His music is tiresome and ponderous(an opinion which is shared by many).

[BrucknerEnthusiast]

I'm not very enthusiastic about Furtwangler's own music either, though Arthur Honegger rated Furtwangler's Symphony No.2 as a masterpiece (the DG recording conducted by Furtwangler himself was not successful, even by Furtwangler's own admission, and there's a better 1953 live recording of it on Orfeo). In general I don't think Furtwangler was a great composer. But have you heard Otto Klemperer's dreadful music, such as his Symphony No.2? It's not even competent.

[billyguns2]

LOL! Do you know the story about Barenboim paying a visit to Dr. Klemperer and Klemperer showing Barenboim his music? Do you like my music, Herr Barenboim?" "No, Dr. Klemperer." Later, Klemperer told his wife: "I like that boy, he is honest; but he is no judge of good music!"

[mpearsonmadrid]

I find Klemperer's 2nd symphony competent if rather dull. His Merry Waltz is quite wonderful but certainly he will not be remembered for his compositions even if I do not find them 'dreadful'.

[joeocho88]

I might be better able to hear what he can do IF I ever had a GOOD recording of him to listen to! A nice, remastered digital recording would help. All I have ever heard are really horrible monaural recordings! With a lot of scratch noises.