Introspection On Suicide

[boobootoob]

Why the hell do I have to sub every time I come here? I can't imagine you'd be unsubbing me lol.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@boobootoob

?

I don't get it. You were subbed before you came here. Then again it's past 1 am and I'm still up, so maybe it's my brain.

[boobootoob]

@AntiBullshitMan you tube glitch. It told me I was not subbed. lol. 

[lunaticreanimator]

These people should probably get better at killing themselves, if they are not paralyzed or anything of sorts, why would they place this responsibility on someone else... It's your life, end it yourself if you want to.

[lunaticreanimator]

@lunaticreanimator What I basically mean by this is don't be a pussy, if you feel confident enough in your decision you don't need to burden others with killing you, put your money where your mouth is... something like that.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"It's your life, end it yourself if you want to"

I mentioned at the beginning of this video that unsupervised lone attempts at suicide often go horribly wrong & the victim winds up in an unimaginably painful state for extended periods of time. I'm politely reminding you of that now. I won't be as polite if I have to do remind you again.

"don't be a pussy"

More like don't be a macho posturing oaf. It's not about testing the suicidal person's confidence, it's about making the suicide fail-safe

[lunaticreanimator]

@AntiBullshitMan must have forgotten by the end. I usually do alot of crap all at the same time.

About the story with your friend who wanted to commit suicide... It's one thing if you told him how you really feel, but could you really help him do it? I mean the ethics of it are ambiguous to say the least, when one can't do it himself it justifies the sacrifice of having to live with yourself afterwards somewhat.

On the other hand, you can keep serial killers busy by giving them jobs.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"but could you really help him do it"

I'm not the person he'd be looking for. You're thinking of Dr. Kevorkian.

Now, if I was in Mr. Kevorkian's line of work, then yes, I would do my job and help people do what they wanted to do, in a fail-safe way. But if someone came to me for the very 1st time & told me that they wanted to die because of some trivial shit, like a break up, then I as the pathologist would have the right to refuse until the individual in question undergoes extended counseling

[DiwataMan]

@AntiBullshitMan Once you begin to justify why one should be denied the right to die i.e. obligations, trivialities, etc, then you have to consider the other reasons which you seem to be rather dismissive of. You seem to be contradicting yourself in that regard when in the video you say the individual knows best and the evaluators don't but here you say "undergoes extended counseling".

[AntiBullshitMan]

There's no contradiction. In the post you replied to, I was pointing out that a diagnostician should be allowed to say no on the 1st visit without legal ramifications coming their way, as there are enough Kevorkians who wouldn't feel the need to toe the arbitrary line.

In the vid I argued that depressed people shouldn't be forced to undergo extensive (or any, but I'll take what I can get) evaluation. I always qualify these by pointing out the crucial difference between depression & delusion.

[DiwataMan]

@AntiBullshitMan Maybe I'm not understanding your position. You wish to have legal system in place where anyone above the age of 18 can go into a facility and be killed. That is the general base of your position, yes?

[AntiBullshitMan]

@DiwataMan

The vid I uploaded yesterday starts out with me pointing out the barriers. Even the title of the video has ''legit barriers'' in it. I don't see how you missed that video but wound up commenting on this old one, on the same day. Maybe you already saw the new one. Maybe you just need to re-watch the first few minutes of it.

Again: I oppose having any sort of law force every last ''Kevorkian'' to assist with suicides in the cases where the doc believes that treatment should come 1st.

[lunaticreanimator]

@AntiBullshitMan Oh, wait, just remembered something else. Sorry to bother you again but... if you're over 18 and live in the US, you have the legal right to purchase a firearm. That seems pretty failproof to me.

The only real problem I see is what you mentioned about psychology branding people as unfit. That would not allow them to purchase firearms. But if that single condition were met people would be free to merily blow their own brains out as they please.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"you have the legal right to purchase a firearm. That seems pretty failproof to me"

It's not. People have survived suicide attempts by way of guns. When I said suicides go wrong, a gunshot failing to get the job done is what I had in mind.

Just quit trying to find a rationalization to deny people the right to have the respect & dignity of dying through a legal process. If you have an unshakable bigoted view of suicidal people, fine, just don't allow that bigotry to impact the way you vote.

[lunaticreanimator]

The way I see it everybody who doesn't want to buy a gun to kill themselves isn't really that serious about it and that's why they end up crippled and in pain for the rest of their lives, cause they're doing things half-assed, but I wouldn't know, I have actually never felt the urge to kill myself, in the end something > nothing.

[lunaticreanimator]

Or maybe they should make something like... "Do It Yourself Suicide Kit For Dummies"

[AntiBullshitMan]

"something > nothing"

Quite the contrary. Something = suffering. Nothing = net. Any perception of pleasure you may glean in the "something" is only an elimination of deprivation imposed onto you by your DNA (dumb forces) for the sole purpose of dead-end survival & reproduction. And since there is no need for the need, nothing > something.

"Do It Yourself Suicide Kit For Dummies"

You're mocking people who suffer to the point where they no longer wish to live. I wish their situation on to you.

[DerivedEnergy]

@lunaticreanimator Oh how remiss of them. They're not professional experts skilled in the art of taking people's lives, including their own. They'll get better at it with time. Leave it with them. They'll get the hang of it eventually.

[boredna]

but I think we should try and talk them out of it, not by confiding them and making them feel even worse about what they want, but porhaps give them an alternative and some prep talk because even if it is a false hope and they accept it it means they were looking for it

basicaly by giving them a false hope you become their hope, and you become the realisation of what you give them, it's a self fufilling promise(srry for the terrible explanations I suck at english)

[boredna]

well, depressed people don't need the truth they need hope, even if it's a lie people(depressed or not) depend on hope, it is, very often, the only thing keeping us alive(and I don't have to explain to you why we want to be alive)

there is a reason for depression and in most cases there is a solution, so to get to my point, I agree with you that people should have the right to do as they please with their lives, and we should aid them if possible

[dishonesttAbe]

It's especially sad that some people who are in depressive states for decades have no right whatsoever to assisted suicide when such a decision clearly wouldn't be rash or irrational at that point. In a more civilized society, I suspect painless, assisted suicide will be freely available, though perhaps there will be restrictions in cases where the desire to die is sudden and there was otherwise no history of mental illness. Whatever the case, this absolute ban is nonsensical.

[TheMaleWithNoName]

I know this is late, but great video...one of your best.

Also appreciate your honesty in what happened.

[AntiBullshitMan]

How dare you watch my objectively awesome videos an entire 2 months after their posting!

Lame jokes aside, I did actually have the impression that I was one of your "must watch" users.

Been busy?

[TheMaleWithNoName]

You can retain that impression ;). "Work" in November / December put me behind and I've only been able to catch up properly now.

Was still following what was happening and such but just couldn't watch many videos.

[hoverboverer]

It's common enough for young men to feel suicidal. I know I was. I will certainly not rule it out for some time in the future. Thing is, I'm glad I didn't end my life, 20-odd years ago and suspect that many people who have would have got through the problems that seemed so overwhelming at the time. If we are talking suffering here, you have to consider the pain that will be caused to (perhaps) many others. There is no contradiction between being pro-choice in suicide and helping prevent ....

[hoverboverer]

a particular instance of it. Circumstances are everything. Sounds to me like you did right by your friend (and his friends and family).

[XERXESalFARISI]

Just hold on and we guarantee it will work out in the end.

[XERXESalFARISI]

it's all gonna be ok, if you just keep on persevering.

[EssTiEphYuu]

and majority of the time it seems that suicide is provoked by others.

[EssTiEphYuu]

i dont have anything against suicide... its sad when we have a loved one that does it but its their choice. its like when you wanna go somewhere or go to sleep. life is too shitty for some people and they want not to be a part of it anymore. in this day and age, life is shittier than ever!

[HellWithPoverty]

As for euthanasia, I agree. If someone is suffering from a terminal illness and the patient is going to suffer from intense, physical pain-yes, they should have the right to end their suffering.

People with a mental illness should be prevented from doing so, as their are numerous forms of effective treatment. People with mental illness are able to live productive, fulfilling lives.

[HellWithPoverty]

And as for your rant against "psycho-drivel" (thanks for the beautiful insight, Cruise), I think I'll trust professionals over you.

[kilija383]

i have never seen the debate between Thomas Szasz and Albert Ellis. I don't think anyone should be prevented from commiting suicide.  I don't think there is such a thing as mental illness. But if there were why shouldn't a person be able to refuse treatment for it. If i am diagnosed as a diabetic i can refuse treatment for that why shouldn't i be able to refuse treatment for a "mental illness"

[lnocsifan]

Very interesting video. Think of this. It is quite comforting in some situations to think about suicide - it gives temporary relief and lets you get through the difficult period/reformulate your opinions/get medical help/... So, telling someone who talks about suicide you think it's OK to do so would be very irresponsible. Let them get the relief they need without you trying to destroy their fantasizing.

[ArtisynSaffryn]

I don't agree with the contract idea as being the 'final word" in their rights, if the person hasn't signed it saying that they want the right-to-die. However, I like the idea of their being a form for it, as a way to say you want the right to die, if you do; a form which would keep society from stopping you. Yet, society shouldn't try to stop anyone, other than to offer non-forceful support in options for life. Plus, society ought to offer peaceful means of death, for those who want it.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Form + contract = interchangeable.

As mentioned in the 1st video you watched, the contract would include a clause allowing for the individual's potential flip flops on this issue to be documented and kept track of to the fullest extent. I don't see the harm.

Invite accepted and appreciated. Though you sure manage to hide your favorites well. I didn't know that could be done, since I can't find either of these 2 vids under your faves.

Yeah yeah, I like to check, I'm lame like that.

[ArtisynSaffryn]

I have them there in favorites, under uploads, but in what I consider the non-music section of my favorites, which are listed after most of my music favorites. YouTube ought to allow for even more customizations, etc. Anyways, the contract sounds better now that I understand about the clause. There also ought to be a clear psychiatric statement to it, allowing the individual protection from any forced psychiatric treatment, based on just thoughts about suicide which aren't definite plans for it.

[longslidenyc]

People should have that right to die peacefully in a hospital to avoid the horror of the discoverer. I think maybe before that an institution should be in place to spend six months with the patient and teaching them about proper nutrition and excercise because that is usually a life style CHANGE for the suicidal. And it just makes people happier. Getting the sugars and fats out of the system makes the brain (you know - part of our bodies) work better. Brain work better = we think more positive.

[globalarte]

A human may not injure another human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

A human may or may not obey any orders given to it by another human being, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

A human must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law. I. A. (and me : )

[Jelly50cent]

I would like to hear or see an true definition of WHY EXACTLY suicide is SELFISH and COWARDLY? Isn't that only from a perspective or has this been ascertained to be fact? lol,

I could debate who the real cowards and selfish ones are in this whole drama of lfe.

[Jelly50cent]

Many times a person looks to others for "permission". They want another to say what they are doing is "good", fine or the like, and this permission then gives them the catalyst they seek to take action. Maybe deep down, u resisted being the catalyst and don't know that. Maybe u "felt" that completely agreeing with him made u seem cold. I liked ur video and I agree with many of the opinions u have about a person's life.

[Jelly50cent]

Hey, I liked what u had to say, I love how humble u present your arguments. About ur friend, I think there is more to it than just comfort as to why u bailed. Feelings and emotions are fickle sometimes, sometimes we have these going on "underneath" our rational thinking. My opinion is u bailed on supporting him because subconsciously u wanted to support him, but u did not want to be the driving force.

[ozjthomas]

I agree that we should have a choice, but I disagree that if you have serious mental illness it is basically a death sentence of suffering. It's not just "positive thinking" bs, people can actually learn life skills, eat better, move to a better situation and change their brains as the science of neuroplasticity is showing. You seem to be using your great intelligence to justify that life is suffering, why not use it to eliminate that suffering, find ways out of it?

[AntiBullshitMan]

11 minutes of hearing me talk and you assume I never bother trying to reduce suffering?

I describe life on earth the way I do not because I have an urge to "justify" suffering, I do so because any other description of reality would be a disservice to the truth.

The only way to truly eliminate all suffering, is to grandfather all sentient organisms out of existence.

Just sayin'.

[kilija383]

I think you should read "suicide:a civil right" and "fatal freedom"by thomas szasz

[AntiBullshitMan]

Judging by those titles it sounds like the author agrees with my line of thought. Any particular reason for the recommendations?

[HellWithPoverty]

Fuck Thomas Szasz, Albert Ellis owned his ass in a debate years ago. Szasz is also a co-founder of Citizens Commission on Human Rights, a Scientology based organization.

[Textra1]

I think voluntary euthanasia should be the right of every human. I'll end my life any time I feel it's appropriate. It's MY life. But I think presenting a contract to a person at 18/21 or whatever, is extremely stupid. Why bother with a contract? Why not just let the person decide when the situation arises. I don't want to be forced to adhere to a choice I made when I was 18 when I get to being say 60.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Because the most crucial situations that arise are those involving patients incapable of verbal or physical communication due to being in a vegetative state. An aspect not easy to ignore from where I'm sitting.

[Textra1]

It's still foolish to enforce some contract at age 18 or so. Better to have something like organ donor options on your drivers license. Some thing where you tick a box every year when you renew your license. That way the decision is more representative of the persons recent mindset rather than some arbitrary choice they made when they were practically a child.

[AntiBullshitMan]

That works. I was thinking of a contract along the same lines, updates and all. But that's not how most contracts work, so I can see the valid concern over my description of it... even though our dispute is mainly a semantical one, seeing as how I'm in no way opposed to stance updates. The main part is getting adults to make their stance known early on, despite it being subject to change.

[AlexphoenixWing]

I disagree on some of the arguments.

Some people are quick to take that option of assisted suicide. I think 18 or 21 is not the right age to choose that option of 'yes' or 'no'

My worries are more WHO chooses the option and is it really THAT bad to keep on living. Age and disease is a more important reason to consider other then, I hate to live.

But it's a better option then those assholes and cowards who jump in front of trains or off buildings which causes extreme trauma to others.

[thormaxim]

I won't wait for a law to "allow" me to do this. I've already told my loved ones that if I ever have some condition/disease that withers my physical comfort away to the point where I am in constant pain to the point where the "please(comfort) vs pain" scale, I will end it myself, with noone else's consent.

[AlexphoenixWing]

My uncle choose the same, after ALS destroyed most of his muscles. He was one of the lucky ones to be able to go out on his terms rather then the disease

[ThePlannedEscape]

As evolution of man suggests, people weren't meant to commit suicide primarily due to their primal instincts pushing them to keep on living, this being natural for all humans. However in the past as obviously the suicide option has been chosen so many times, by certain individuals to end their own life. It is indicated that these peoples emotional status at the time overwhelms their primal instincts for survival. (cont---->)

[ThePlannedEscape]

(<----cont) I must agree that those who cannot think for themselves should be let go (vegetated state). However people such as your friend should not be given the right. I base this claim on the fact that majority of emotional imbalances go away if certain treatment (not necessarily medication) is put into place. Such treatment could involve forcing these people to forget the torments by completely changing their lifestyle to something that they may not realize may make them more fulfilled.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Why advocate obedience to the agenda of evolution and our primal instincts? These are unintelligent forces. Applying intelligence when it comes to these matters should be a "no brainer".

[anonforuz]

a sensitive topic with a few insensitive people trolling about.

[rosko123]

it's a difficult and touch subject and while I do agree on each indivdual having there own right to do near enough whatever they please it's the loved ones who pay. Perhaps life is a gift for some though but some people suffer every day with depression which is also a living hell and not always a light at the end of your tunnel as you put it. I'm on the fence on this one but it would be hard to find doctors willing to administer suicide to someone who to look at has nothing wrong with them.

[IceysMoment]

i have alot more to say about this,but the comments is to short.

i think i will do a video or blogtv instead,since this is what i been thrue,fight for, since 99*,thats along time of just lose friends,still try be happy.& how it all begin,happen & end for them

(i have no problem let the world know it) i agree with criss,good video otherwise,many disagree/agree.its a sensitive topic thats why!so yeah

[ninjapirate0507]

I know someone who committed suicide, a family member. Although I was sad and I grieved, I understood why he did it. Let people make their own decisions.

[LisaAnkh]

I soo don't know what to say about this. I get suicidal and am lucky enough to have found medications that help me not feel that way. Were I unable to find medications, I doubt I'd be around today. And, I think I should have a right to exist or not if I don't want to no matter what age I am and no matter if I'm ill or not. In any case, dead people can't be made to answer to the law so they can't be punished for killing themselves.

[anonforuz]

It seems that the comments im seeing dont seem to be getting it. ha, its like they are all trying to say they are better than people who commit suicide because they endure through it. and because they decided not to, it was because it was "selfish" or some other nonsense to lift them on to a moral high ground, to feel all good about themselves.

honestly thats why I sometimes feel like dieing because whenever i go for help people just start talking about how great they are and dont help me.

[anonforuz]

part2: just brush off my feelings, the things that concern me and give me some bullshit lines that you said in the video. then they drift away from me, not wanting anything to do with me. really, if they were truely concerned with me and suicide why dont they give a shit to spend the time and help. the only help is the help i can provide. may it be enduring it or suicide I will choose whats best for me, since no one else seems to care.

[drogoscg1]

Stop being so co-dependent attention whore. Make a rational decision.

[anonforuz]

its people like you that piss me off. this is the shit im talking about. I dont seek attention cause i know i wont get it. I have already figured out no one gives a shit. all you people want to do is insult me, as if that shit is going to help. who does it help, does it make you feel happy calling me an attention whore. What a selfish prick.

[igotsachubby]

go kill yourself already....

[drogoscg1]

The toughest people decide to follow a samurai mentality. When it is time to go, go.  People need to understand that mentality.

[oooshiny888]

I've always kinda seen suicide as a very selfish thing, b/c every human has obligations to the people who care about them, & suicide is extremely painful & traumatic to the ones who lose a friend/family member. But then I think, well maybe it is selfish of us to ask that person to live when they are in such pain.

But there is a lot more to psychotherapy than pep talk. There are very effective cognitive-behavioral therapies (& meds) that actually improve the person's mood & outlook on life

[casandra391]

Sorry but I work with the terminally ill and as a nurse and a care giver I would have to disagree with you..There have been times when we thought that some one would die and we are calling the Family and low and behold the next day they are 100 % better and they live another 5 or more years comfortably .You can't do that it is not right.

[AntiBullshitMan]

99.9% of the time, the terminally ill remain terminally ill until they die. Full recoveries are beyond rare. This is an extremely poor argument to use in an effort to outlaw fail-safe suicide. I've had exposure to what goes on in red units and what follows it most of the time. People hooked on devices for 20-30 years, not knowing what their name is. I can't fathom the kind of hell most of them must be experiencing. All for what?

[casandra391]

Sorry I don't think so 99% and what about depression you think people should just be able to end their life because they are depressed.?

They have medicine for depression and Doctors who can help in those cases.

[AntiBullshitMan]

So we should pump them full of chemicals and have them take it one day at a time, even if it's their own will?

Why? Why walk such a thin line instead of simply allowing the person to do what they want with their own life? It takes an astounding level of arrogance to assume you know what's best for them simply because they're suicidal and you're not. Have you ever even looked at suicide from the perspective of a guaranteed avoidance of the numerous horrors that only the non-living are immune to?

[AntiBullshitMan]

*against* their own will, I meant.

[casandra391]

I'm sorry but as a teenager I went through that and I had thoughts too but I pulled through it .Have you ever heard of enduring

Endure to the end for crying out loud life is short.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"as a teenager"

Last word here: I mentioned at the beginning the 18+ age frame in which this should take place.

There are people who keep enduring throughout 80+ years, and are still not given the option to do as they wish. The price they pay far outweighs the prospect of somebody ending their life who may not have done so ultimately had they gone on to live for 10 more years.

Life is basically desire fulfillment. You take away the desire, and there's no negative to undo in the 1st place.

[casandra391]

Listen you obviously don't look at life as a blessing .The body isn't perfect we will all be put through things during the course of our lives but like the person below me said it is a very selfish act and you are hurting your love ones if you do something like that.

suicide is suicide how ever you look at it. and yes there are caregivers that specialize with working with these cases and meds to help also.

[Textra1]

Forgive my interruption of this exchange but...

"Listen you obviously don't look at life as a blessing"

That is irrelevant. What is being argued is the rights of the individual. Committing suicide might be selfish or cowardly, but people are free to be selfish and cowardly. There are no laws against selfishness, fortunately. You're right, a person who commits suicide may well be causing stress and pain to others. So what?

[Textra1]

What I do to my own body is my choice. If that makes me a horrible person, so be it. You can't mandate sensitivity. If a person wants to end their life, you or I have no right to stop them forcibly. Sure, I'd try to talk them out of it, but ultimately it's their life, not mine.

[angeliaparish]

not the easy thing - -the thing that prevents you from losing someone important - don't be disappointed for being selfish.

[aMulliganStew]

A video, over 8 minutes long, that I actually stayed to watch. Good topic choice. I see a lot of it as a non-issue, though. If I were to choose to die, who and/or what is going to stop me? And after I succeed, what are they going to do about it? Basic human compassion leads us, erroneously at times, to try to help people back away from the brink. Would I lie to make someone feel better, God, I hope so. (hope it works, too.)

[MilitantPeaceist]

TYVM Right mow - I am suicidal. This posses some really epic Q's. To keep exploring this within myself (introspection) as to the origin or intent or condition this implies - I ask open ended questions (to myself as I really have no support base when I shut down in this manner). Why? Who? How? When? Where? If I ever get to 'Where?' I know I am in trouble! I belong in the 'known/unknown' highest risk demographic, being transgender. +50% will chk out by age 30.

[MilitantPeaceist]

Right now.

The 'Why' & 'Who' is very apparent to me. It is like having a train coming at you and your intrisic immobilisation to 'move'. Like an animal caught in the high beam.

It is simply paralysing.

I have gotten to 'How' but the 'When' & 'Where' is my bane

We are 'aware' of ourselves & we are aware of others. We have a malignant growth that causes this. It is called 'frontal lobes' & we are biologicaly bound to this

The only thing that stops my own cyclic thoughts is distraction

[MilitantPeaceist]

When i get through this, or by chance get distracted long enough to focus without the slipping backwards. I will post again.

But I will, very much, take note of the mechanisms involved to be able to add to this &, LMAO, if you dont hear from me, you know I got to the 'Where'.

But I must be iron fisted about 1 thing.

This will always be a different situation for every biological entity in existance. No 2 reasons or journies will ever marry up.

There is no code to follow, only personal

[MilitantPeaceist]

oh

btw - the reason you said what you said to your friend, is called empathy - please, never loose that.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Thanks, but it's empathy sliced with discomfort at the idea of his death. The truly empathetic thing to do would be to bring an end to his anguish.

Whatever you chose to do in the end, be sure to consult those whose opinions you value. If worse comes to worse, the only fail-safe way is to go through the medical industrial complex. People have tried doing it themselves & failed... & got severely hurt in the process. Suffering is the negative in this equation, not mere non-existence.

[MilitantPeaceist]

ty

My situation is situational not chemical.

As I saud there are independant reasons for everyone.

Just so you can see what I mean, take a look at the latest comment on my channel.

Catchya man - and no - DO NOT loose empathy - it is what keeps me alive!

[IntellectualRubbish]

Hahahaha no fricking way, there I am ending my self imposed month old exile thinking I`ll come back with something original, and you do this vid lulz.

My now redundant take on this subject should be up be up by the morning, god bless state run internet monopoly and its crappy upload.

Good stuff as usual.

[UnhappyTestTubeBaby]

I'm glad you made this video. It would be a shame to see your channel pulled but it will be a far worse day when you decide not to speak your mind.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I was about to say 'you're being too hard on yourself' but the fact that you're so hard on yourself is one of the reasons I listen to you. That's what integrity is made of.

You're upset that you weren't fully honest with your friend. There's 2 things wrong with that:

[UnhappyTestTubeBaby]

1. Its not your responsibility to worry about what your friend does or does not hear. You're not responsible for their thoughts or well being. The only one you're responsible for is yourself. If you thought what you said helped, and you're happy with that, then there's no real conflict. If you're not happy, that's your problem.

2. Do you not realize that the spark behind your conversation here is in itself an incentive for life? We would you think the thoughts that motivate you are not good

[UnhappyTestTubeBaby]

enough for your friend? Some think that to make a case you have to present as spotless of a picture as possible. I think to show all the real details, all the cracks and flaws, and to see that yet it still stands is as powerful of an image as can be presented. I love the honesty. To hold back only makes me suspicious. To not be able to put your finger on something that lurks just below your nose is as about of depressing of a thought as I can think of.

[ReadmanJ]

Suicide: A long term solution to a short-term problem

[AntiBullshitMan]

So people who have been depressed their entire lives have a ''short term problem''. I can list a plethora of other incurable long term illnesses, but what's the point.

Thanks for your contribution. Really added some great insight there.

[ReadmanJ]

What I think I meant to say with that is Life isn't a Video Game with 'Extra Lives' so to speak; you only live the one life to live and I mean hey, someone wants to off themselves, fill your boots,whatever, but just because you feel sad or upset, even for extended periods, that in my view's not a valid reason for ending life. Disagree if you want, such is your right, and it's your video/channel, but my point is a valid one, you only live one life and it shouldn't be thrown away carelessly

[AntiBullshitMan]

You say ''in my view'' yet at the same time you attempt imposing the aura of objective truth to this view.

Seriously, a person suffering from the elephant man disease shouldn't off themselves?!

Life is basically just desire fulfillment. We've been doing it for billions of years, running the same circle. True intelligence should not be blinded by desire goggles and ought to recognize what truly has weight in the equation of life; Suffering. Not the addiction of naturally imposed desire.

[fortunad]

I don't see anything short-term about the problem which is my life. I've been having to put up with it every single day since I was born so far. How is that for a long-term problem?

[ReadmanJ]

I'm sorry to hear that, I know it sounds glib but you just have to make the best of a bad situation. I can't say much more than that because I don't know your situation or even you personally but hey, one thing life is *not* is fair and we each have our demons to face, I hope you can overcome yours.

[fortunad]

tx, I was sort of speaking in general jst to show that it's not as simple as "common sense" tends to make it out to be. It all depends on what we each have to endure while nobody else has clue or think they know better.

[DamnReligion]

If you haven't seen the documentary "The Bridge", you might want to check it out.

!!! Caution !!!! : Very disturbing to "light-hearted" people.

[TheCampbell]

After all nobody can tell the future. Maybe things "will" be ok. Depressed people often say that they've felt that way for ever and that there's absolutely nothing that's going to help, but when they come out of their depression the story can be very different.

[TheCampbell]

I mean that we are also here to keep each other alive. Not just ourselves. It's genetically coded into us, unless you're a sociopath or something. Isn't that why you reacted to your friend as you did?

[AntiBullshitMan]

As for being sociopaths, the point is that a logical non-theistic outlook on life should value life's quality and not its quantity. So if someone is enduring an ongoing ''net loss'' with their existence, making them endure it for another few decades seems just as sociopath-esque, though unintentionally so.

[TheCampbell]

But is anyone really qualified to judge the quality of another person's life on the basis of a chemically imbalanced conversation?

[AntiBullshitMan]

Exactly my point. So then we shouldn't have problems agreeing that it should be up to the suicidal individual, and not his or her psychiatrist.

[TheCampbell]

Well it "is" up to the suicidal individual, unless they want somebody else to do it for them. Why should anyone else have to do it for them?

[AntiBullshitMan]

Because last I checked, anyone who isn't a doctor is not legally allowed to deal with euthanasia, and the goal is to do it in a fail safe manner. The day euthanasia becomes available for all to use, there will be no requirement for the assisted part, unless the person can't move or something.

[TheCampbell]

Are you saying that a medical professional should kill a suicidal person on demand without any kind of psychiatric assessment, because any kind of psychiatric/psychological assessment is probably "psychobabble bullshit" and will recommend medication and some vague hope for the future?

[AntiBullshitMan]

I'd recommend the person undergo some basic questioning 1st just to see if they're temporarily delusional. But the person should under no circumstance be placed in captivity as long as they pose no danger to others or to themselves. Wanting to end your life through a non-painful method does not qualify as being dangerous.

[TheCampbell]

But how many people would willingly kill someone just because the said they wanted to die, and why should they? Who would want those doubts on their conscience? Some people are not just temporarily delusional, but permanently delusional. People who confess to crimes they have not committed etc Suicidal feelings can be temporary too.

[AntiBullshitMan]

''Willingly kill someone''

Trying to make it sound ugly there. Don't interchange ''assist in suicide'' with ''kill''. We know how kill is used, and it never has anything to do with helping the person actualize their wish. Again, it's about ending pain. There's the risk of potential pleasure going unexperienced somewhere in the future, but all pleasure is merely addiction anyway. Doesn't need to exist in the 1st place.

As for why should they do it, because they'd be paid to as professionals.

[TheCampbell]

I'm not trying to make it sound ugly. I'm just saying it the way I see it. At the moment the medical profession try to save life, not end it. I can understand assisting to end a life that is ending and in great suffering but to serve it up on demand to every crackpot who comes along....

It's late here. We can continue this later. It's a good video, a discussion worth having.

[AntiBullshitMan]

I'd be curious to know the actual numbers in terms of just how many depressed people overcome their depression, and just how many die with it. It seems like one of those statistics that the medical industrial complex would manipulate since profit is the end goal.

[TheCampbell]

There are different forms of depression, some are harder to shake off than others.

[trick0171]

That situation with your friend is a tough call. On one end it is important to honor the truth, but on the other end you do not want to be the factor that leads your friend to suicide. The call you made was/is entirely understandable.

[TheCampbell]

This is a very complex video. There are a lot of different things going on here. There seems, at the beginning of the video, to be a confusion between suicide - you do it yourself, and euthanasia - somebody else does it for you. You go on to talk about your friend and it seems as if you feel you failed him, and also yourself, in some way. I understand what you say about platitudes. I am no theist, and it's hard to empathise if you haven't been there- but you forget the emotional side of humanity

[AntiBullshitMan]

I'm talking assisted suicide, or fail-safe suicide as I'll be referring to it from now on. Basically, the main issue with taking the option away from pretty much anyone who wants to use it, no matter how superficial their reasons may be in the eyes of the majority, is there is a strong likelyhood of them going through with it in a harmful manner, and failing. I'm sure by now we've all heard stories of people blowing half of their head off in failed attempts of suicide. This must be avoided.

[videosteini]

Why should i listen to you rather than experts that have studied this for years or decades?

[AntiBullshitMan]

First off, you're clueless as to merit of my perspective on this, so don't pretend to be anything else.

Secondly, because I'm not asking anyone to listen to me. I'm proposing a system in which the individual (not me) would have the option to do what they feel is best for them, instead of being hooked up to machines or kept in straight jackets for the remainder of their lives because some psycho babbling professional thinks he knows what's best for them better than they do.

[Adipatus]

Why the fuck do you think you need government permission or help to commit suicide?

It's very easy to do on one's own.

[AntiBullshitMan]

It's easy to do it in a harmful manner which we see people fail to do and end up blowing a quarter of their head up while remaining alive.

You're a depraved lunatic, fuck off.

[AimiriZ]

Suicide and helping some one to commit suicide is illegal in many countries, a suicide survivor can be charged with man slaughter and jailed/fined. So you should be asking how come the government is not giving permission to end one's own life.

So fuck you ^__^

[Adipatus]

Look, If you want / dont want suicide for yourself , fine!

But what the fuck business is it of yours what ohers do or dont !!!!!

[Adipatus]

Fuck you, and your violent "contracts", Inmendy Jr.

[AimiriZ]

Ah after a 2 hour mechanics lab, your voice is music to my ears.

[AntiBullshitMan]

I had trouble with 80 minute classes back in the day, can`t even fathom an entire 2 hours.

But now that you mention it, I have to relocate my area of filming again. This spot makes everything sound so blurry. My whole apartment does actually.

[AimiriZ]

80 minutes? In Iran,every class in my High school and Junior High was 90 minutes, and I went to school there for 6 years .

Also, I have a 3 hour lecture on economics in half an hour. Stop bitching.

Does your friend know about your youtubes? You can send him this video. I thought it was pretty good.

[AntiBullshitMan]

He doesn't even live in Vancouver. So unless I reach Fred level of fame, I'm not gonna be to worried about him stumbling across this video.

[oojamaflipper]

(cont2) and they are able bodied then they can pretty much go do it without anyone else sharing the responsibility anyway, assisted suicide really only comes into it by neccesity when they are unable to 'pull the trigger' so to speak, themselves, and thats where the problem of responsibility comes in

[AntiBullshitMan]

There's way too much in your 3 comments for me to expand in text on through these restrictive YT comment sections. We should discuss this through skype sometime.

It's a convoluted issue I'll give you that.

[oojamaflipper]

cool

[oojamaflipper]

(cont)..

another major problem is that practically no one would want to be any part of such a decision, if it's euthenasia then that would involve someone basically aiding the suicide. your situation with your friend echos this, if he did end up choosing to go ahead and do it then that is entirely up to him, but i think you did the right thing in not reinforcing his negative view when he might well have been on the edge..

thats not an entirely coherent im sorry.

if someone wants to do it and

[oojamaflipper]

the problem of course is one of responsibility. there are huge grey areas with regards to assessing someones state of mind, whether they are capable of making the decision or not.

there will never be an 'obligatory' contract but there should perhaps be an option to legally state the medical conditions in which you would want to have the machines turned off if you cannot communicate it. but even then, it could be argued that some vegative states could not be permenent.

[Ramiiam]

Don't be hard on yourself. You get a certain insight into what your principles really are by observing what you actually do in moments like these. Don't take this in a patronizing sense at all. Sometimes what we had assumed were our beliefs when it was all hypothetical prove to have been facile, not up to the job when the stakes are real.

Like you I think people should have the right to suicide. Would I try to dissuade someone I cared about from making that choice? Hell yes.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Thanks.

I don't see it as being hard on myself though. I just see it as strange that the way I dealt with him in practice contradicted the way I'd deal with him in theory. Because yeah, the guy's been depressed ever since I can remember and I see no reason for him to endure approximately 40 more years of it just so he can die of natural causes instead of taking things into his own hands.

I'd feel like an ass telling him that though, despite it being the truth.

[ZOMGitsCriss]

I still dont understand whats the point of signing such contract. Lets say you're 18 and very happy with your life and according to your recent philosophy and beliefs you think you would never do something like that. But what if your life and beliefs are the complete opposite when you're 44 ? I dont understand whats the point in losing that right in the first place. (--->cont)

[ZOMGitsCriss]

(<---)

People change their minds and ideas from month to month, sometimes they even change their entire persona in a course of 5 years. I dont think there should be any contract, I think assisted suicide should be simply an option available to all adults and maybe even incorporated in the health care program (gasp!).

Very good video otherwise.

[AntiBullshitMan]

The contract is essential because of the thousands of people on life support right now who are incapable of any kind of communication since they're in a vegetative state. Often times, the onus is placed on an immediate family member to decide as to whether the plug should be pulled. Most people never discuss these things with their family beforehand, so the relative opts to keep it plugged, since the alternative decision would admittedly be hard to live with. The contract solves this dilemma.

[ZOMGitsCriss]

Yeah, but something like this can happen to children and the parents may keep them alive and in vegetative state their entire life because they didnt reach the age to sign the contract. I still think that for those cases another solution should be fond and that giving up this right when youre young is not the best idea.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Yes those cases of children being kept plugged in will exist, no doubt, but to me that just reinforces the 18+ yes-no option as a limitation to that kind of poor decision making done by the parents.

There will be people who will change their minds as they age. To me, it all depends on how much more overall damage that would create. If the surveys demonstrate a huge volume shifting of opinions through aging, then the contract should be signed at a later age, in correlation to the age where.....

[AntiBullshitMan]

...most opinion had proven to have changed.

I don't think the numbers would show a huge volume of shifting opinions though. Religious nuts won't change their stance for the most part, and neither will a good number of naturalists.

Thanks for faving this by the way. Will be interesting to see what some of the masses think. I rarely ever hear from them since YT has done the same kind of ''algorithmical demotion'' of my channel as they have with Gary's.

[Ramiiam]

I think a lot of people actually do discuss these questions with their family members, as to what decisions they would want taken if they were in a medical condition with the outlook poor.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Wondering what the numbers are on that and if this kind of information is available anywhere. I personally don't know anyone who discusses this in advance, and most people I know aren't the private types who'd keep those kinds of conversations strictly within the family circle. So I doubt there's any progress conversation wise.

[Ramiiam]

It would be interesting to have numbers. My parents let it be known that they wouldn't want to be kept on life support with no prospect of getting off it again. My wife's parents did likewise. She and I have discussed it over the years and are in agreement. It seems normal to have such conversations, but I guess not everyone does. Cultural differences?

[reckingmachine]

totally agree

[hitssquad]

Have you watched The Bridge? The full movie is currently on YouTube:

youtube. com/user/ICareUCareWeAllCare

youtube. com/watch?v=EwsvRgFcFAg

en. wikipedia. org/wiki/The_ Bridge_ (2006_ film)

"The Bridge is a 2006 documentary film by Eric Steel that tells the stories of a handful of individuals who committed suicide at the Golden Gate Bridge in 2004. The film was inspired by an article entitled "Jumpers," written by Tad Friend appearing in The New Yorker magazine in 2003."

[metaldave9]

It's sounds like you don't want your friend to die. It just shows how selfish human beings are naturally that someone with intelectual integrity like you would choose not to speak your true feelings in that situation. You took the easy way out, and I probably would have done the same.

[rileed]

well, if I were asked this, I would say, try therapy first, but if it wasnt starting to show results, I would want to die. Putting someone in a nuthouse would most likely make their life even more depressed than before.

[MrPainfullytrue]

So long as it's not an impulse action, heat of the moment and all that........

I think you should have the choice to die.

[anonforuz]

send him a link to this video.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Him doing something based on my opinion is a long shot. But still, don't wanna risk anything.

[FacedPalmedPlanet]

great video. I wont flood the comments with my opinions, but I can shorten it to 'yes', but, does it mean they can go jump off a cliff, or do they have to accept (let's say) injection/pill.. ? is this conditional? (woud be a better question)

[AntiBullshitMan]

Well the point is to give them a non-painful alternative to something like jumping of the cliff. Because if someone's at a point where they're gonna do something like jump of a cliff, I doubt the current law would impact their decision in any way.

[AntiBullshitMan]

of = off

Clearly I'm rusty.

[FacedPalmedPlanet]

Ah ya, I know you mean a clinic of sorts, where it can be carried out peacefully, painless etc.. but does the contract mean, you make all conditions of your right to end your life, (if you choose to opt for any other means of termination, eg cliff jump?) I'm not being unsympathetic in the words on purpose mate, just trying to see it on paper. I would be all for it, no questions. If person was of sound mind, and had all affairs in order, & said 'stop the world & let me off'. then go for it..

[AntiBullshitMan]

Well opting for any other means of termination wouldn't necessitate state approval, because only in the case of euthanasia are rare required instruments to carry out the act utilized. Where I live, these medical procedures are prohibited from being performed outside of regulated terms. A cliff jump on the other hand, is simply unstoppable 99% of the time.

[FacedPalmedPlanet]

Just going through the 'what if's' on a hypothetical contract in operation. I could see major ToS & Conditions. but to provide a clinic to carry out peoples right to end life, would be a no brainer to me. Some people whinge & wish they were dead, etc & cry wolf about killing themselves, others really mean it, but are afraid to 'jump', 'pull trigger' etc, so a clinic would be of great help to them, (& families who prob listen to them complain) hey, honest mate, no insult ment, I have lost 6 :(

[IceysMoment]

4 of my best friends killed themselfs.

so,that pain im well aware of how it feels,

bcs it never goes away!

i kinda did a video of those emotions today.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Harsh.

Based on your video, it sounds like you and I disagree on what the law on assisted suicide should be. Maybe I'm reading too much into your video though.

[IceysMoment]

maybe you do,maybe not not sure there

But we live in 2 different countries dont forget that.

also,i think its selfish when a best friends kill themself,they think how bad they feel,

what about their friends,family.our pain of losing them.

BUT in the end,you have to be strong,& have them in your heart,bcs i have to live with this,& they cant take back their lifes.

[PardoDub]

I don't think you should think of suicide as a selfish act.

For me, that's one of the most common miss conceptions about suicide.

Speaking from experience, sometimes a suicidal person will think they are doing a good thing for others i.e. others would be better off without them.

[IceysMoment]

im talking also from experience ive lost

4 best friends in that

and i tell you i have MANY perspectives,comes to suicide that was ONE little thought of many years of crying..

sorry i sound rude now but i know in my heart already,look in the side bar of my recent video