Powering Now - Zero-emission Fuel Cell Buses on the Road in BC

[paynechristopher29]

Thanks for sharing some great ideas. Keep it coming!

[debbyharris58]

Most H2 fuel cell vehicles today use batteries & fuel cells to exploit their benefits & address their challenges. Battery vehicles need H2 for added range & quick fueling while H2 vehicles need batteries to capture the energy from regenerative braking. Given the range limitations of pure battery vehicles, they would never work in transit systems where buses operate up to 22 hrs/day. Fuel cell buses, on the other hand, can refuel in <10 min. and have a range of 500 kms.

[GeoffdeRuiter]

@debbyharris58 I would say please be careful when you say "never" because that may be a bit short-sided. Besides that, buses don't operate 22 hrs per day in BC and if they did you would see them run out of diesel all the time. So, generally speaking they can refuel throughout the day and a fully electric bus can do the same same. The batteries are extremely robust, even if others are trying to tell otherwise, look at the data.

[GeoffdeRuiter]

I should also add that although we are both looking for a cleaner future, Debby, because you had been so heavily invested with work in fuel cells as Manager of Corporate Communications at Ballard Power Systems and such an advocate of FC in general, you might have some vested interest in their success :) Fact is the technology is here now for e-trains and trolleys, e-trolley buses, and BE buses we don't need to spend hundreds of millions on FC development. The answer is happily available now.

[DanFrederiksen]

yeah this is politicians who don't know any better and foolishly thinks they are doing the right thing by giving ballard whatever it asks for. a battery electric bus where you swap the batteries is 3 times more energy efficient, it costs much much less to make, it's a much simpler system, it's much stronger and will have much less maintenance. Steven Chu cut off fuel cell research and the notion that fuel cells are good was spread by big oil 15 years ago because they knew it wouldn't work

[GeoffdeRuiter]

As this seems like a great technology and is impressive, straight battery electric buses are even more fuel efficient (~35 effective use of electricity, where straight battery technology is ~90 efficient) and last even longer that hydrogen electric buses. The data supports this claim. This also negates the cost of each bus, with fuel cell buses costing significantly more. I would say the only advantage at this time of the fuel cell bus is the added range and refueling speed but that will change.

[debbyharris58]

In terms of cost, the important question should be what the technology will cost when it enters production. These are pre-commercial and don't reflect economies of scale or technological progress.

[GeoffdeRuiter]

@debbyharris58

Well the cost of Platinum does not seem to be dropping and probably won't especially when it would be needed even more with fuel cells. I agree that prices will drop, but at this time, battery prices are dropping now AND there are production electric buses available now. Even the fellow at 3:51 was not explicitly saying Fuel Cells=FC Buses everywhere, he was talking about electrical grid applications and the potential there.

[JRCrowley]

@GeoffdeRuiter People who claim that electric is better than fuel cell don't take into account the necessity of getting the electricity in the first place. Where does the electricity come from? And what is the inherent carbon footprint in getting that electricity? Those are the questions people need to ask themselves. At the end of the day, you need the hydro, solar, nuclear, whatever electric power to run your electric vehicle, and that is not sustainable. Fuel cell is superior.

[GeoffdeRuiter]

@JRCrowley Hi there, Fuel cells are also powered by electrons and electric motors and most fuel cell vehicles have batteries to store electricity from regenerative breaking. Fuel cells must also need to worry where their fuel is coming from because it is made from electricity! Does hydrogen gas just exist for free in the air, no we have to make it from electricity and water. I am sorry to say, your point is completely invalid and inaccurate.