Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64
fuck Allah and fuck all arabs and moslems. Nuke mecca and medina!!
Israel is recognized by 187 nations around the world. Conversely, Hamas is recognized by nations around the world including several in the middle east as a terrorist organization.
long live Israel....don't worry..they are the schemers of schemers...they shall employ their G-d given tactics of dominating all they come in contact with....shalom
Yeah they are the schemers of schemers, the US is getting sick of them though, the minute the US gives up on them which will happen at some point because Islam, Judaism and Christianity is just on big fucked up family fight over different version of the same fairy tale. I think they are all so mislead and so sad. Which is worse? Who cares? those are the 3 cancers of the world Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Servus!
Israel has historical account of defeating a then superpower nation Egypt with one man and a stick...Moses! They have potential!! very dangerous combination...a nation with nuclear bombs, a healthy record of defeating a tri nation assault within the last 60 years....don't hold your breath for them to fail!
I know you are proud of your Judaism or you are a Christian Zionist which means you are looking forward to the second coming so your Messiah will kill them off and you can live their. If they keep rubbing the US the wrong way, we could push a few buttons and bye bye.
American will never exist beyond the description of ancient prophesies,in the book revelation, chapter 13, America is referenced as a lamb that came up out of the earth. (which represents freedom of religion) then it began to speak like the dragon..the former Roman Empire, (who's deadly wound was healed) (Rome fell) Let me explain, when Rome the classic jew hater speaks, America just echo's it, Rome is back in a more sophisticated way, America is in bed with Rome, freedom religion almost gone
"This will end when the US is no longer able to pay for Israel's war machine." FlufffMcDeath... speak the knowledge that will come to pass... in a few years Israel will be alone and this game of Manifest Destiny will come to an end... Enjoy well you can...
Unfortunately, only in the light of hindsight will the media brainwashed, mostly christian states see Israel for what it really is. The greatest threat to international peace the world has ever known. If the first history book on world war 3 is ever written, the title of the first chapter will be ISRAEL.
This is not News we knew this. The sad part is that no one is doing anything about it. This is the main reason why something i feel ashame of saying im an American because my government is an Ally of Israel which means they support this injustice.
You can almost smell the USS Liberty-deniers/ minimizers and Pollard sympathizers also slithering around here, in all their guises and disguises...Best now to just monitor them, silently.
Islam is a fake religion ,why dont these palestinians go live amongst arabs in Jordan ... O yeah , the leaders over there wont take them , they WANT the conflic to continue ...
Supplying water implied some costs. Did Palestinians ever pay for water? What you think happened when a Jude refuse to pay the bill? Take a wiled guess!
Lots of people would be more sympathetic to the left if they also condemned the atrocities committed by the Palestinians. They have systematically executed every peace activist in their midst as a "collaborator." Publicly lynched and slow hung peace activists. The Palestinians openly announce that they don't want peace but war. Hamas is a religious cult.
We never hear criticism from the left about these things.
The Palestinians want war. They just can't win one. Tough shit, crybabies.
You don't have to be on the left to care about other members of our species. Is it us leftists' fault that we tend to care more about the sake of humanity than you money driven, closeted racial supremacistic, sadomasochistic conservative right wingers? Let me teach you something. ALL human rights organizations run by leftists condemn both Hamas and the crimes of Israel. It isn't our fault that Israeli crimes outweigh those of Palestinians. Make yourself useful and speak out against all crime.
Why is there not one Real News story about Palestinian violations of international law? Why aren't Palestinians "money driven, closeted racial supremacistic, sadomasochistic," too?
Israel's crimes DO NOT outweigh Palestinian crimes, and indeed Israel's "crimes" usually turn out to be nothing of the sort.
In the US Democrats were the historic party of slavery and Jim Crow. They still advocate a racial theory of inferiority with racial set-asides for minorities.
Wow! You spout more bullshit than a corporate lawyer. The only thing you can rant about is Hamas. Not every man, woman, and child who is Palestinian is a terrorist. So, Israel siphoning off water for only Jews is not a crime? The IDF murdering peaceful protesters, using kids as human shields, and dumping white phosphorous on civilians is not a crime? Israel evicting people from homes that it doesn't own is not a crime? No, can't be! I must be an anti-Semite for thinking that!
You must be confused about US history, too. The democrats formed a schism: Southern Dems separated from the main party due to the main party's support for integration, Jim Crow repeals, and civil rights. They were called "Dixiecrats". Bashing political parties is ridiculous. Especially, when modern conservative republicans do not have the best track record with minorities and the modern Democrats have elected a black president. Parties change with people. People make the party.
The Republican Party never had such a a schism. Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act and opposed Jim Crow. Martin Luther King was a staunch Republican.
Democrats have a deep seated belief in the racial inferiority of colored peoples. Republicans had to make war on the Democratic Party to end slavery.
Marthin Luther king could have been a republican because republican meant something quite different back then. A bit longer before that, republicans opposed capitalism, because they regarded the workers as wage-slaves, being dependent on capitalist who controlled the means of productions and formed the state to enforce this particuliar form of property.
MLK privatly supported democratic socialism (which the rep today surely not support). He rejected some elements of state-communism though.
It was the Republicans who fought to free blacks from slavery and amended the Constitution to grant blacks freedom (13th Amendment), citizenship (14th Amendment) and the right to vote (15th Amendment). Republicans passed the civil rights laws of the 1860s, including the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the Reconstruction Act of 1867 that was designed to establish a new government system in the Democrat-controlled South, one that was fair to blacks. Republicans also started the NAACP.
Few black Americans know that it was Republicans who founded the Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Unknown also is the fact that Republicans were key to the passage of civil rights legislation in 1957, 1960, 1964 and 1965. President Lyndon Johnson could not have achieved passage of civil rights legislation without the support of Republicans, because most Democrats were against it.
Contrary to the false assertions by Democrats, the racist "Dixiecrats" did not all migrate to the Republican Party. "Dixiecrats" declared that they would rather vote for a "yellow dog" than vote for a Republican because the Republican Party was know as the party for blacks. Today, some of those "Dixiecrats" continue their political careers as Democrats, including Robert Byrd, who is well known for having been a "Keagle" in the Ku Klux Klan.
Democrats have been running our inner-cities for the past 30 to 40 years, and blacks are still complaining about the same problems. More than $7 trillion dollars have been spent on poverty programs since Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty with little, if any, impact on poverty. Diabolically, every election cycle, Democrats blame Republicans for the deplorable conditions in the inner-cities, then incite blacks to cast a protest vote against Republicans.
My point was that the meaning of the word "republican" changed over time. Republicans had a very noble attitude in the past - I never disagreed. But you just avoided my argument that MLK had anticapitalist and pro-democraticsocialist tendencies, thats why he surely wouldnt be a republican today. Because today they are extremist nationalists. EoThisD.
You're not an anti-Semite for thinking that. You're just wrong.
The fault for civilian casualties is on the PAlestinians who conduct war operations disguised as civilians. That's a war crime by the way, and brands them unlawful combatants. They also use ambulances and hospitals. The entire Palestinian way of war is based on perfidy.
TenseAlcyoneus, unfortunately you're coming across as the anti-Semite. The Palestine Christian/Muslim semites are herded into the highest human concentration on the planet. By far. They are denied not only water, but the right to standardized self-defense. If they are in civilian areas and "look" like civilians, its because they are forced into such mechanisms by the Zionist regime. Your appraisal is simplistically dishonest, bordering on pathological. Apologize to the world or be quiet.
TenseAlcyoneus, your regime among whose "military" swagger about with t-shirts illustration the shooting of Palestinian children are afforded no such luxury to brand anyone an unlawfull combatant. Your roundly debunked propaganda is laughable and you know it. Your regime has good reason to ban, harass and murder foreign media - you are guitly. If you did to Americans what you do Palestinians, you would be wiped off the map in a week. Thank the Palestinians for their remarkable restraint.
So Israel is so much better!!! Yeah! Like when the IDF called hundreds of houses to warn them of possible bombings during Operation Cast Lead (Because they care!) Only problem is that they called the wrong ones and the people who lived in them ran away to homes that were actually bombed! Oh, but that was a mistake! Or, what about the drone attacks? State of the art technology! So accurate, it killed lots of innocent children. I oppose all war crimes. Israel is not exempt from this.
Pinpoint accuracy is impossible. Civilian deaths are inevitable when Palestinian terrorists illegally hide amongst civilians, illegally disguise themselves as civilians, illegally operate from Geneva protected sites, engage in acts of perfidy, and so on.
The civilian deaths are on the heads of the Palestinians who do not observe the most basic precautions outlined in the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions.
Under international law, the Palestinians have every right to defend themselves against an illegal occupier.
The only quibble is over the lack of guidance of the Qassam rockets [ie, firecrackers], which qualifies them as 'indiscriminate'. But the distinction is convenient Israeli hair-splitting.
If my head were as full of garbage as yours, I'd be tense, too : )
Under international law, Israel has every right to defend itself against acts of war, including occupying territory from which the attacks come.
The Qassam rockets are INTENTIONALLY aimed at civilian areas. Suicide bombers INTENTIONALLY target civilians. Hamas SAYS it targets civilians. We don't have to gues about this stuff.
This is not splitting hairs, but noticing the obvious. The only way to miss it is to be a liar.
"During the operation, BTselem received particularly grave reports of [israeli]soldiers
intentionally aiming gunfire directly at civilians who were not involved in the hostilities
and who did not endanger the soldiers lives in any way."
Go read Bt'selem. There is even enough video evidence. Now that human rights groups openly exposed the INTENTIONALLY killing of palastinian people, is Hamas allowed to conquer Israel and build its own settlements there? Equal standarts for everyone!
But the standards aren't equal. Israeli forces operate in distinctive uniforms, as required by the Geneva conventions, the Palestinians do not. Palestinian training emphasizes the use of civilians for cover, concealment, and deception. All of that is illegal.
Under international law, all casualties resulting from Palestinian perfidy are the fault of the Palestinians themselves. So, what you've written is untrue and contrary to established conventions of land warfare.
OK, fine. But perfidy is a war crime. Civilian casualties caused by perfidious tactics are on the head of the guerillas, not the conventional occupiers.
We must still blame the Palestinians for most civilian casualties, even their own.
Of course the standart is not equal, because Palastine is under occupation. Thats like saying "oh, the polish rebells in Poland who fought against the Nazis didnt have uniforms on, so it was illegal!" Hell yea, its illegal, but isnt it funny that you focus on this, and not on the occupation?
Even the Haaretz reported that the IDF uses p. civilians for human shields and cover...
I posted you the statistics. The majority of civilian deaths is caused by the IDF.
Even under occupation, the Geneva Conventions apply to all belligerents. So, what you've claimed is irrelevant.
The occupation of Palestine is like Allied Forces occupying Nazi Germany, except Nazi's were smart enough to recognize a good deal and end the war. Palestinians aren't.
Tour stats are descriptive. They don't show causation. You're being dishonest.
If the Palestinians hide among civilians, and Israelis don't, then we'd EXPECT more Palestinians casualties. Your inferences are wrong.
Statistics are descriptive? surprise, surprise! Too bad that your whole argument is based on something vague as "causation", even though I just demolished your lie "that most palastinian victims are victims of their own countrymen". Surely the Hamas builds it military complexes in civilian areas, but wait... where does the IDF has its complexes? Ops... in civilan areas. So when hamas blows it up, its surely the guilt of IDF that israeli civilians nearby died by explosion. Nice logic.
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Some stats indicate causation, some don't. Yours don't. We're disputing the cause of violence ion the occupied territories, Since, you've made causal claims, it's strange to see you repudiating them.
You attributed this to me: "most palastinian victims are victims of their own countrymen." But I never wrote that. It's easy to "demolish" positions I've never taken. Quite dishonest of you.
IDF fully complies with Geneva. The Palestinians do not. Palestinians are to blame.
You mean the people who you've robbed of a nation? If an unwelcome person enters your house, you have every right to do what you want to them. This is true of any situation in the world, from my home to yours. One would not blame french resistance forces in WW2 for disrupting the peace. Your stance is absurd.
Perhaps, but this is even more absurd: "You mean the people who you've robbed of a nation?"
The first intifada, and every one after, is a xenophobic, anti-immigrant movement. Arabs had not problem with those dark-skinned Jews present in Trans-Jordan since ancient times. But let those white-skinned, European Jews show up - and you get the Palestinian movement.
Anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-human-rights, theocratic, xenophobic, dictatorial Palestine - that's what you support? How absurd.
We dont support that. Actually we know that the israeli blocking of airway, borders-passings, ressources, medical treatment, other imports and other strangulation blocks palastinian devellopment into an open society. Its making them more extreme as provable.
Does palastinians havent got the right to self-determination, wether theocratic or democratic? Why do you care about this anyway when you actually describe them like animals, incapable of governing themselves free of israeli occupation?
@Staubdumm "and other strangulation blocks palastinian devellopment into an open society. Its making them more extreme as provable."
This is a good argument. There is contrary evidence, however. When Israel pulled out of the West Bank and Gaza, it made things much worse, not better. All evidence supports the thesis that Palestinians cannot peacefully govern themselves. Note the word 'peacefully.'
Pals do have a right to self-determination, and Israel has a right of self-defense.
Pals do have a right to self-determination and self-DEFENSE, and Israel has the right to self-defense (it already has a good portion of self-determination). I think thats a better phrase.
Lets be serious, what you mean with "pulled out of the West bank"? It never happened. When Israel pulled out in Gaza it was because it was too costly. Thats why pulling troops out in 6% (gaza) but increasing settlergrowth and soldiers in the rest 94% (WB) is not equal= pulling back.
No, but that is not absurd in the slightest. Israels expansion into the West bank is robbing a people of the possibility of a two state solution, and thus a nation. I was assuming you would see this.Tell me, what is absurd about this?
And do not let paranoia get the better of you,it has nothing to do with race. Infact, the only racial hate and homophobia right is coming from the extreme right wing party in charge of Israel.The Al-Dawayima massacre, the Deir Yassin massacre,these were the issues
I've not accused anyone of racism or anti-semitism for having a differing view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
I must point to a common rhetorical tactic from Real News viewers on the left: assuming facts not in evidence. Since I have not made such accusations, your assumption that paranoia is at work amounts to a false conversational claim.
Israeli expansion is a result of continuos warfare directed against it by Pals and others. The occupation is legal, if it prevents attacks. It does.
This is true and I congratulate you for it. It was just my impression, I dont have any evidence apart that you claim that Pals can not govern themselves peacefully.
Which still a bit strucks me, I wonder what genetic component of them makes them so uncapable of this. Thats why its not rhetorical.
The second part I attribute to you as well. So I skip that.
How is that building settlements and transferring people there is a way of defense?
"We must still blame the Palestinians for most civilian casualties, even their own." That was your position.
Building settlements is illegal under Geneva Conventions. Ah right, they are made for defense, right? Next to it, you always avoid that IDF is SOOOO much stronger as palastinian militants. Why do you still push that defense-lie?
And you dismiss serious human rights-records when it comes to Israelis, but rely on them when it comes to palastinian crimes. Very dishonest of you.
You're right, the settlements are illegal under the Geneva Conventions.
It's not a "defense lie." Palestinians are a strategic threat to Israel. One chemical attack, or a terrorist attack on a chemical facility (like the failed attack in Haifa) and you have problems. An active insurgency terrorizing civilians is a threat. Pals are used by other states to exact political concessions from Israel. This is a serious strategic matter.
No no, with this argumentation you are as well saying that palastinians have the right to defense and use Israel as a battlezone.
I talked primarly about the threat of "annihiliation" or serious breakdown of the national structures, not about some dead civilians. Currently only one country is capable of annihiliation and destruction, and thats Israel (nukes).
And with your standart applied, palastinians have the right to fight in Israel, since Israel dropped 1ton-bombs on P-neighbourhoods.
The Palestinians started a war. They war they started was illegal, because it seeks to overthrow UN mandated borders.
The Palestinians act in concert with Syria, Iran, and Hezbolla all of which pose a serious threat to ISrael existence.
Israel dropped bombs on terrorists hiding in P-neighborhoods (you conveniently leave out context) . These Palestinian terrorists act in violation of Geneva. They have no right to do anything.
Yes, the dropped several one-ton bombs on a neighbourhood full of innocent people to kill one terrorist. Thats a very important detail yes. It shows that they are perfectly capable of killing innocent women and children just to get rid of a "terrorist".
As you already confessed, the isr. Gov breaks GenevaC. as well. So they have no right to do anything?
Israel has a right of self-defense under Article 51. The Palestinians can fight a war legally, but not by the illegal means they've chosen. Again, this is simple to understand.
First, they are not one-ton bombs. Israel has used 500 lb bombs when no other option was available. But mostly they use Hellfire missiles.
Intentional targeting of civilians and indiscriminate bombing are prohibited at law. Israel does neither, Pals do both. Pals also engage in pefidy as a strategy.
Palastine has a right of self-defense under Article 51. You give the palastinians the right to fight in Israel as a battlezone as well. Too bad they are not allowed to arm themselves.
No, they used one-ton bombs as it appeared in the press. Take for example the targetted killing of Rayyan.
Israel does both. Israel as well uses perfidy as a strategy (human shields). And if IDF would be in civilian cloths sometimes (surely it happened), that would legitimaze Hamas killing of isr.civilians?
Rayyan was hiding in civilian areas, operating out of uniform. The fault for civilians casualties is his and his alone. Israel does not use human shields, every such accusation has been refuted in the end.
Already stated, Israel had the perfect chance of having peace with its neighbouring countries. The only thing they have to do is to stop being an outlaw state and accept the world court decision (stop occupation+settlements; +refugees). Thats generally the offer the saudis gave Israel in the "Arab Peace Initiative". Look it up if you are interested.
Secondly, if Israel is really defending themselves, why do they build settlements there? its rather shows that Israel is on expansion-course.
You misrepresented B'Tselem. They claim, contrary to the IDF, that the occupied territories are not zones of armed conflict. The B'Tselem claim is ridiculous on it's face.
B'Tselem lies. Jewish Tribune:
"BTselem retracts war crimes accusations against IDF 5 years later. An Israeli human rights group quietly has retracted its inaccurate coverage in which it accused the IDF of killing innocent Arab civilians, the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs reports."
I didnt. Yea sure Btselem is wrong such as the international court and the whole world lies.
It says a lot about your character when you claim that because of ONE mistake Btselem has made in its past the whole organization is corrupt. Additionally weird is that you talk of palastinian human rights (antigay) but claim the HumanRight-Organization you have the info from are not reliable. Have fun applying this standart to every other organization. And of course the IDF is a very neutral source.
I'm not relying on human rights organizations to inform myself about the practices of other states. I read the laws. Israel is the only Middle East state with gay rights, women's rights, and full rights for all Arabs.
I agree it's weird. Weird to read leftists support theocracies and dictators.
We dont know. I think it shows their strive for truth when they openly admit that they have made a mistake. And since you have no evidence that the natural mistake-index is higher than other serious organisation, you are just wishing they made more mistakes.
As I said, my position is that people generally will devellop into a free and open society, as long as they are not blocked and strangulated in their devellopment.
Short said: Turkey has gay laws too,but just look how gays are treated there
The IDF does hide behind civilians in the occupied territories. Just check Btselem. It was even in Haaretz. Its not only hiding. Isr. Soldiers openly admitted to have the order "shoot at everything which moves" (like in O.CastLead). Including paramedics.
With your standart applied: Maybe they did count the fact that IDF uses palastinian as human shields in the OcT as "Pal. killed by Pal."?
Under intl law the west bank, jerusalem and gaza are PALESTINIAN TERRITORY and the Israel is illegally occupying them, according to the ICJ in 2004. Stop with this perfidy bullshit bc its based on the assumption that Israel has a right to be there to begin with....
Cefuroxx, Israel does have a right to be there. But you illustrate the problem: you idiots don't think there should be a two-state solution. Then you complain when a state recognized by the UN defends itself from annihilation.
I think there should be a "no state" solution. Defends itself from annihilation? It has, since ´71 when it produced a policy called "stalemate" by Kissinger and ignored Sadat´s offer for peace in exchange for Israel´s withdrawal from the Sinai. This led to a huge war and eventually Israel´s withdrawing...it has not chosen peace within its borders. It has chosen expansion and violence.......a little hyper militarized extension of the american imperial project on the edge of the world´s oil
Its so funny that somebody who can write properly is so mentally disturbed believing that palastine is a threat to Israel. As I repeated, EVERY military analyist and even non-ones can tell you that Israeli is the millitary superpower - capable of annilihation(nuke).
Oh, does Israel defend itself by building settlements? What kind of defence is this? Did the US did this in Germany as well? or did the Germans did this in Poland, "Lebensraum-Politik"? Thats why your analogy is pretty flawed.
The United States and Israel signed a Memorandum of Understanding in August 2007 committing the U.S. to give Israel $30 billion in military aid over the next decade. This is grant aid, given in cash at the start of each fiscal year. The only stipulation imposed on Israels use of this cash gift is that it spend 74 per cent to purchase U.S. military goods and services....
The first grant under this agreement was made in October 2008, for FY2009, in the amount of $2.55 billion. To bring the total 10-year amount to $30 billion, amounts in future years will gradually increase until an annual level of $3.1 billion is reached in FY2013. This will continue through FY2018.
Israel is by far the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid. Since 1949, the United States has provided Israel with $101 billion in total aid, of which $53 billion has been military aid. ..
.... For the last 20-plus years, Israel has received an average of $3 billion annually in grant aid;, until now the grant has been a mix of economic and military aid.
Israel receives its aid under vastly more favorable terms than any other recipient. Egypt, for instance, receives $2 billion a year in economic aid, but this is a loan and must be repaid. Saudi Arabia also has U.S. military equipment in its arsenal, but it buys and pays for this equipment and is not given it, as Israel is.
LOL. Oh yes when people are being abused and the victims fight back let's blame the victims for standing up for themselves. I wonder if you'd say that shit to a rape victim.
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LittlePinky, the Israeli's are also abused by Palestinians. Israel shows remarkable restraint.
The first Intifada was in 1929, long before the existence of an Israeli state.
/watch?v=skYN3q1BsEo
/watch?v=azxjb_deXlo
/watch?v=jKAkVFWFoV0
In the last one, the point made at 4:00 is so very true and so very frustrating. If you are for gay rights, women's rights, human rights, environmentalism, why be against Israel, the one country in the Middle East that has all of those things? It's crazy.
Saying that Palestinians abuse Israel- and that Israel shows restraint is ludicrous. Israel is the 4th most powerful military presence in the world. Its like talking about the Soviet Union being abused by Lichtenstein, and congratulating the USSR for not retaliating.
Why be against Israel if they are for human rights? Another ridiculous statement- Israel clearly doesn't regard the Palestinians as humans, has no regard for their environment. Even Israeli Arabs may lose their political rights.
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Thousands of rocket strikes. Thousands of dead civilians, INTENTIONALLY targeted by Palestinians. Israelis are abused by Palestinians, mainly by being killed.
75% of Palestinians support attacks on Israeli civilians. Israel must act to stop it. Incidentally, most attacks on Israeli civilians are launched from UN controlled areas.
But Israeli Arabs have political rights. More rights than in any Middle Eastern country, including Palestine.
If you are talking about the katyusha rockets- then you mean that 12 people have died, in about the last 20 years, 9 of which were IDF soldiers. There are no "thousands of dead [Israeli] civilians." You are lying. Some in the Knesset want to ban all Arab political parties, and it looks like they could have their wish.
Operation Cast Lead- 1400 Palestinians killed 13 Israelis killed. Who is abusing who? Its not even close, Israel simply massacres people.
If you really want to argue that palastinians are a threat to Israel, its like you are saying that a 5-year old child is a threat to an adult. Anybody who knows anything about the military situation knows that Israel is much more powerful - backed by the US.
Israel is not reacting. Its the main aggressor. Dont forget: Israel is occuyping palastine, not the other way round. Israeli is therefor the attacker. Israeli can defends itself on its borders.
Indeed. Did we denounce the Polish para-militaries who fought back against the German invaders? Did we denounce the Afghans who fought against Soviet invasion? No- in fact, we supported them and call them heroes not. One day, we will all regard the brave Palestinians as the heroes in this conflict as well.
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No. One day we will regard the Palestinian as bloodthirsty savages who destroyed their own prospects for a state.
Palestinians openly declare they do not want peace but blood. They write it down in their constitutions and covenants. They kill their own who want to make peace. Their society is illiberal, theocratic, and despotic, yet the left supports it. It's bizarre.
Palestinians are the problem. So are it's supporters on the left.
The Palestinian government regularly announces that it accepts the 2 state solution. Some covenants/constitutions from 30 years ago, which I'm sure is what you heard about, do not mean anything today. However, its difficult to have a sovereign state when you are being occupied by an aggressive and oppressive foreign force.
Israel destroyed the secular nationalist movement in Palestine (PLO) decades ago, and left them with no where else to turn but the religious extremists.
tensealcoyneus, its the israelies who kill their own who want peace ie Yitzak Rabin?? Its the israeli society that is non democratic where if you speak against the state you have huge repercussions in terms of your job, your life your families safety ie Illan Pappe who spoke out against the gov and was forced to leave the country to avoid death threats. instead of being a troll who puts out lies why dont you face the facts?
Hamas has accepted Israel some years ago. It therefore broken its own Charta.
The reason why palastinians have so miserable political conditions is because Israeli blocks every devellopment there. Israel blocks airways, borders, medical treatment, food, water supplies. Israel strangulates palastinian.
You support the Lebensraum-Politik of the Israelis, which is much more bizzare. Let the palastinians decide themselves how they want to live. Put israeli soldiers out of Palastine.
Staubdumm wrote, "Hamas has accepted Israel some years ago. It therefore broken its own Charta"
Which is to say, it never accepted Israel's existence at all. Hamas is a religious organization that thinks Allah gave the land to Muslims and Muslims alone.
As soon as Palestinians don't have to worry about their house being bombed/bulldozed/shot at, and don't have to worry about getting food the next day, and don't have to worry about getting snipered on the way to work, then they will have the breathing room to create a democratic society. But no democratic society has ever survived the sort of apartheid and oppression that Palestine has been made to suffer. You can't blame the victims for being victims.
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Israel pulled out of Palestine in 2005. Palestinians promptly began destroying Jewish holy sites and launching thousands and thousands of terrorist attacks.
If the Pals commit acts of war, they will get war. This is as it should be.
Complete lie. Israel never left. What next, are you going to pretend their are no such thing as ethnic cleansing or refugee camps? Palestinian-denial at its ugliest...You have the chain of events and priority all wrong - If the Israeli regime wants to continue to terrorize the Palestinian people, they will get war. The rational world can related to the terror the Palestinians endure...You are dismissed, after exposing your true character. Stop visiting those hate sites....Adios.
Why can't I just believe what the Palestinian government, Hamas, says? "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement...There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
You avoided my argument. Hamas already takes part in international conferences. It even agreed on the UN peace solution (world consensus apart US and Israel). Thats why the Hamas Charter is a pamphlet and not a political guideline. As I said, they accepted Israel in its legal borders (as the whole world agrees on). It was some years ago in mainstream press.
Who cares if Israeli government believes Hamas or not? They simply have no the right to occupy palastine.
Oh, how does Israel defend itselfs in territories which they dont belong to? Do they defend themselves in foreign countries by building settlements there (thats breach of Geneva Convention). Do Palastinians have the same right?
Sure the palastians ARE VERY dangerous, regardless though even EVERY non-military expert knowledge knows that Israel is a military superpower.
The palastinians restrained through a weapon-embargo must be pretty tough that the Israelis have to stay there for 40 years.
Once again. Israel abided by the 1949 borders, Palestinians attacked. Israel abided by the 1967 borders, Palestinians attacked. Israel pulled out of the territories, Palestinians attacked.
Israel must occupy the territories to prevent ongoing Palestinian attacks. This is perfectly legal and simple to understand.
"Israel pulled out of the territories, Palestinians attacked."
Please, show me anything, any newspaper article, any history book which says that Israels stopped the illegal occupation. When you mean Gaza, they pulled back the troops from 6% of territory. Thats not pulling back at all. Why do you again avoid this?
You always avoid the settlements, which are illegal and show that Israel has rather an expansion-agenda than defending itself on its legal borders.
- On the settlement myth: tiny(.)cc/SettlementMyth
- On Gaza Israel pulls out ALL troops: tiny(.)cc/IsraelPullsOutOfGaza Israel dismantles settlements: tiny(.)cc/SettlementsDismantledByForce Palestinian attack stats: tiny(.)cc/AttackStats
Go calculate yourself: 363 km² is Gaza, the WB is 5.800 km². I think you didnt understand my point, because we are talking of a complete pull out, not just a tiny bit of 6% (thats only Gaza). If I conquer your garden and leave 6% of it, I dont leave your garden at all.
Settlementmyth is very funny. I like it how he says "natural growth". Try it on your neighbour. Go to his garden and say "I have the strive for natural growth, therefor this is mine now!
Israel pulled out of Gaza. Palestianians used it as a safe have to conduct attack on Israeli territory. It's perfectly legal for Israel to re-occupy.
Whenever Israel pulls out, Palestinians attacks intensify. Occupation is a RESULT of Palestinian attacks, not the cause. From the first in 1949, this has been the case.
yea, Gaza, 6%. You repeat yourself. Thats not "pulling out". Thats just leaving 6%. Additionally its still blocking its airway, ressources, food, medical treatment. You forget the 94% which is not left. As long as palastine is occupied, they have the legal right for self-defense.
Anyway, I am getting bored by this discussion. I will end the discussion now. Bye
LOL, you made me laugh so hard, oh they pull out of Gaza ha, so why do those Zionist Nazi Israelis are keeping the 1.6+ million residents in the Gaza Ghetto/concentration camp, blocking them from land, sea, and air?
Oh, occupation is a result of Palestinian attacks ha, wow ... and who's occupying who here?? Palestine does not belong to those Zionist European thanks and Israel is nothing but a rouge entity and cancer. Stop babbling those Zionist lies unless you are one!
Why are some of the territories occupied? Because of continuous, perfidious, guerilla warfare waged by Palestinians against Israeli civilians - that's why.
It's a simple historical fact. The Palestinians are the aggressors. They attacked after the 1948 borders were established by the UN, and they have not ceased since.
You do show quite clearly the racist nature of the Palestinian cause. It's not Jews that are the problem, but mostly white, European, immigrant Jews that Palestinians hate.
What guerrilla warfare ... Let' see, so it's ok for the Zionist gangs back in 48 to come over to Palestine, take over the land, commit massacres against the owners of the land, create this bogus state of Israel and when the Palestinians resist and fight back it's call terrorism? You have a twisted view of how things are. Israel has gobbled and been gobbling a land does not belong to them and you are telling me it is their land? The only racist, terrorist, Nazi here is Israel.
The State of Israel exists. It is not going to disappear. So, what now? There are only three choices.
(1) A war of annihilation.
(2) A never-ending, low-intensity war by Palestinian aggressors.
(3) A two-state political solution.
Since you and most Palestinians reject (3), that leaves only (1) and (2). I submit that Israel will ultimately win both. The best hope for Palestinians is (3), but they seem too recalcitrant or too blinded by religious hate to recognize their own self-interest.
If there's no stopping these anti-Christ Zionazis from wiping Palestine off the map, we should hope they soon self-destruct, which contrary to your fantasy Jewish State on perpetual American welfare, is quite plausible.
Hum .. wow, and you came up with that all by yourself? Yea, option 3 is a load of crap .. what 2 state solution, and where would the Palestinian state go ha? There is no land left in the west bank that has no settlements on it + what gets stolen every day by your beloved Zionist settlers. Yea, Israel exists today on the ruins of Palestine but one day it will be gone like all tyrant, Nazi, fascist, apartheid regimes.
LOL @ Palestinian aggressors .. spoken like a true Zionist
Actually there's another choice you didn't include.
Which is (4) stop both military and financial support of a terrorist state like Israel from any possible country especially the US and powerful financial or banking families.
If (4) ever happened Zionist Israel would long be gone. It is thanks to US support and the most powerful bankers on earth that it managed to start all the long list of military offensives without provocation and beating Arab armies before.
TenseAlcyoneus - This is the problem with Zionist supporters, your stupidity and ignorance clearly annoys me. The only thing you accomplish by supporting genocidal regimes such as I-srael is showing your totally lack of empathy and sympathy for another human beings.
Guerrila warfare waged?
You hypocrit. What about I-sraeli settlers beating Palestinians with whatever they can get their hands on.
There IS a low-level war going on. Israel does NOT want a two state solution. It wants ownership of the West Bank and Gaza (and Lebanon up to the Litani River). It is increasing settlements and fencing off Palestinian land to gradually absorb the whole area and is also destroying Palestinian agriculture and taking Palestinian water in an attempt to starve the non Jews out.
This will end when the US is no longer able to pay for Israel's war machine.
Oslo is proof that Israel wants a two state solution (TSS), and that Pals don't want a TSS. Israel's public pronouncements advocate a TSS. Pals public statements are against a TSS. This stuff is very obvious.
The Pals signed treaties at Oslo and in the Road Map to dismantle terrorist networks and confiscate illegal weapons. Instead, Pals promoted terrorism and imported more weapons. Even the UN admits this.
The fence is built on the Green Line, not in the West Bank.. It's a necessary defense.
o u mean when the jews only made up 30% of the population and took 55% of the land while the palestinians and christians made up 70% of the population and shared 45% of the land. makes alot of sense. ur ignorance annoys the fuck out of me
Hamas envisions a Palestinian state based on the pre-1967 border with Israel, with Jerusalem as the capital, all Jewish settlements dismantled and full sovereignty over land, air and water.
You know what? This is their LEGAL RIGHT. All settlements, all occupation is after 1967 is formally ILLEGAL and a high crime. This is fundamental law. Its even acknowledged by the World Court and the whole world.
Then why does the Hamas covenant,to which every Hamas member swears, claim: (1) Israel has no right to exist, (2) political solutions are only useful if they help lead to the destruction of Israel, (3) all of Trans-Jordan is a waqf given by god to Muslims only.
Hamas supports the 1967 borders, they support a pullout of the West Bank and Gaza --- so they can launch more effective attacks against Israeli civilians.
This is in fact what they did when Israel pulled out. No speculation needed.
By the way: the article says that it rejects an Israel with a capital in Jerusalem. It doesnt say they want to annihiliate israel. Its just about the capital-status. And the current situation is that Israel illegally occupied half of it. Hamas is allowed to have Jerusalem as its capital, but only East-Jerusalem. Currently, its not, because Israel occupies illegally this part.
But HAMAS says it wants to annihilate Israel. You can read the Hamas covenant. watch Palestinian televisions, and read Palestinian newspapers. They openly declare that they want to destroy Israel as a religious duty of all Muslims to kill Jews.
It's completely explicit and openly stated every single day by Hamas.
The mendacity of Palestinian supporters is staggering.
Why can't I just believe the former Palestinian government, the PLO?
"Opposing any political solution offered as an alternative to demolishing the Zionist occupation in Palestine, as well as any project intended to liquidate the Palestinian case or impose any international mandate on its people."
Thats like saying Czech "rebells" who fought against the Nazi-occupation dont want peace. Yea, right, they want the fucking occupiers out of their country. If in this conflict Israel would place his high-militarized soldiers on its legal border, there would be barely conflict at all.
Israel pulled out of West bank? I think you live in Phantasy-land. Actually the settler growth in West bank increased while Israel pulled out its settlers from Gaza. Apart from that, Israel even hasnt stopped the occupation of Gaza, because it still controlls water, borders, airway, entry, import etc. Thats illegal, and thats occupation.
When are we going to inspect Israel's nuclear arsenal?
MendingMedia 8 months ago
When are people going to just be nice to one another and realize we're all one?
cynicaloptimist999 10 months ago
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madonakuse 1 year ago
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Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64
fuck Allah and fuck all arabs and moslems. Nuke mecca and medina!!
Muzzieslayer1 1 year ago
Israel is a terrorist country and the World is waking up to that fact.
When are we going to inspect Israel's nuclear arsenal?
MendingMedia 1 year ago
@MendingMedia
Israel is recognized by 187 nations around the world. Conversely, Hamas is recognized by nations around the world including several in the middle east as a terrorist organization.
esj8341 1 year ago
kill all the jewws!! now we know why hitler wanted to exterminate those filthy big nose mother fuckers!
marcusos1111 1 year ago
palistinains are ANIMALS!
cboshHDtv 2 years ago
@cboshHDtv you are an animal
1987argiris 1 year ago
Gosh,,,, they even stolen the drinking water!!!!!!!!
Poor Palestinians
wehhabi 2 years ago
"Clinton: Israelis and Palestinians must do more"
Please us give us your comments at:
HillaryApproval(dot)com
neo3dfx 2 years ago
Israel will try to find a way to play the "Poor Israel" card, I am sure their recurrent Holocaust reminders will run dry sooner than later.
MrSpieldose 2 years ago
long live Israel....don't worry..they are the schemers of schemers...they shall employ their G-d given tactics of dominating all they come in contact with....shalom
remnant1978 2 years ago
Yeah they are the schemers of schemers, the US is getting sick of them though, the minute the US gives up on them which will happen at some point because Islam, Judaism and Christianity is just on big fucked up family fight over different version of the same fairy tale. I think they are all so mislead and so sad. Which is worse? Who cares? those are the 3 cancers of the world Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Servus!
MrSpieldose 2 years ago
Israel has historical account of defeating a then superpower nation Egypt with one man and a stick...Moses! They have potential!! very dangerous combination...a nation with nuclear bombs, a healthy record of defeating a tri nation assault within the last 60 years....don't hold your breath for them to fail!
remnant1978 2 years ago
Yeah I bet they could defeat the US, come on??
MrSpieldose 2 years ago
I know you are proud of your Judaism or you are a Christian Zionist which means you are looking forward to the second coming so your Messiah will kill them off and you can live their. If they keep rubbing the US the wrong way, we could push a few buttons and bye bye.
MrSpieldose 2 years ago
American will never exist beyond the description of ancient prophesies,in the book revelation, chapter 13, America is referenced as a lamb that came up out of the earth. (which represents freedom of religion) then it began to speak like the dragon..the former Roman Empire, (who's deadly wound was healed) (Rome fell) Let me explain, when Rome the classic jew hater speaks, America just echo's it, Rome is back in a more sophisticated way, America is in bed with Rome, freedom religion almost gone
remnant1978 2 years ago
Oh I get it you are one of those Jews for Jesus!!!
MrSpieldose 2 years ago
the jew problem is spreading like a virus
KhmerD0g 2 years ago 4
there is no jew problem....jew haters are the problem
remnant1978 2 years ago
the jews are causing the hates. so it's the jew problem.
KhmerD0g 2 years ago
"This will end when the US is no longer able to pay for Israel's war machine." FlufffMcDeath... speak the knowledge that will come to pass... in a few years Israel will be alone and this game of Manifest Destiny will come to an end... Enjoy well you can...
redBasta 2 years ago
only in your filthy dreams...Israel shall prevail!
remnant1978 2 years ago
This is why Israel is a huge destabilizing force in the region. They blatantly break international laws.
7jerryv7 2 years ago
Unfortunately, only in the light of hindsight will the media brainwashed, mostly christian states see Israel for what it really is. The greatest threat to international peace the world has ever known. If the first history book on world war 3 is ever written, the title of the first chapter will be ISRAEL.
impalanick 2 years ago
WOW TenseAlcyoneus you said like Hitler
reaperjd 2 years ago
Well get a gun and do something about it... oh yeah, they don't have guns, Israel took them,.
btigtime2 2 years ago
Israel is soo illegitimate in every sense.
erwickline 2 years ago 2
What will the world do about the Zionist problem? This cannot be ignored much longer by people of conscience!
But the Israelis must make the desert bloom, they take so much pride in that. That is so much more important than goyim!
connielane 2 years ago 4
Hebrews
apocolypse11 2 years ago
This is not News we knew this. The sad part is that no one is doing anything about it. This is the main reason why something i feel ashame of saying im an American because my government is an Ally of Israel which means they support this injustice.
RicFerz 2 years ago 2
fucking jews
steveo9001 2 years ago
You can almost smell the USS Liberty-deniers/ minimizers and Pollard sympathizers also slithering around here, in all their guises and disguises...Best now to just monitor them, silently.
farleysbarley 2 years ago
Islam is a fake religion ,why dont these palestinians go live amongst arabs in Jordan ... O yeah , the leaders over there wont take them , they WANT the conflic to continue ...
dankiewfc 2 years ago
Why should the Palestinians have to leave? It's their land!
ryanjwebb 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
these are all LIES
palestianians are the real problem!! everyone knows this, they blow themselves up everyday to kill the chosen people of the bible..
xjaskix 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Jews are far worse than any story of Nazis.
Jews HUNT CHILDREN for their 'organs'
They are now cannibals.
punished4honesty 2 years ago
Supplying water implied some costs. Did Palestinians ever pay for water? What you think happened when a Jude refuse to pay the bill? Take a wiled guess!
aman57 2 years ago
Israel 4 times as much - greedy and sinful
marniespeaks 2 years ago 2
So kind of Isreal to give Palestine the same treatment Germany gave their ancestors.
luckyvet 2 years ago 3
How ironic.
LittlePinky82 2 years ago
Lots of people would be more sympathetic to the left if they also condemned the atrocities committed by the Palestinians. They have systematically executed every peace activist in their midst as a "collaborator." Publicly lynched and slow hung peace activists. The Palestinians openly announce that they don't want peace but war. Hamas is a religious cult.
We never hear criticism from the left about these things.
The Palestinians want war. They just can't win one. Tough shit, crybabies.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
You don't have to be on the left to care about other members of our species. Is it us leftists' fault that we tend to care more about the sake of humanity than you money driven, closeted racial supremacistic, sadomasochistic conservative right wingers? Let me teach you something. ALL human rights organizations run by leftists condemn both Hamas and the crimes of Israel. It isn't our fault that Israeli crimes outweigh those of Palestinians. Make yourself useful and speak out against all crime.
checkunderyourbed 2 years ago
Why is there not one Real News story about Palestinian violations of international law? Why aren't Palestinians "money driven, closeted racial supremacistic, sadomasochistic," too?
Israel's crimes DO NOT outweigh Palestinian crimes, and indeed Israel's "crimes" usually turn out to be nothing of the sort.
In the US Democrats were the historic party of slavery and Jim Crow. They still advocate a racial theory of inferiority with racial set-asides for minorities.
You got it the wrong way around.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Because Israel is the bully
marniespeaks 2 years ago 3
Wow! You spout more bullshit than a corporate lawyer. The only thing you can rant about is Hamas. Not every man, woman, and child who is Palestinian is a terrorist. So, Israel siphoning off water for only Jews is not a crime? The IDF murdering peaceful protesters, using kids as human shields, and dumping white phosphorous on civilians is not a crime? Israel evicting people from homes that it doesn't own is not a crime? No, can't be! I must be an anti-Semite for thinking that!
checkunderyourbed 2 years ago 2
You must be confused about US history, too. The democrats formed a schism: Southern Dems separated from the main party due to the main party's support for integration, Jim Crow repeals, and civil rights. They were called "Dixiecrats". Bashing political parties is ridiculous. Especially, when modern conservative republicans do not have the best track record with minorities and the modern Democrats have elected a black president. Parties change with people. People make the party.
checkunderyourbed 2 years ago
The Republican Party never had such a a schism. Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act and opposed Jim Crow. Martin Luther King was a staunch Republican.
Democrats have a deep seated belief in the racial inferiority of colored peoples. Republicans had to make war on the Democratic Party to end slavery.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Marthin Luther king could have been a republican because republican meant something quite different back then. A bit longer before that, republicans opposed capitalism, because they regarded the workers as wage-slaves, being dependent on capitalist who controlled the means of productions and formed the state to enforce this particuliar form of property.
MLK privatly supported democratic socialism (which the rep today surely not support). He rejected some elements of state-communism though.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
It was the Republicans who fought to free blacks from slavery and amended the Constitution to grant blacks freedom (13th Amendment), citizenship (14th Amendment) and the right to vote (15th Amendment). Republicans passed the civil rights laws of the 1860s, including the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the Reconstruction Act of 1867 that was designed to establish a new government system in the Democrat-controlled South, one that was fair to blacks. Republicans also started the NAACP.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Few black Americans know that it was Republicans who founded the Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Unknown also is the fact that Republicans were key to the passage of civil rights legislation in 1957, 1960, 1964 and 1965. President Lyndon Johnson could not have achieved passage of civil rights legislation without the support of Republicans, because most Democrats were against it.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Contrary to the false assertions by Democrats, the racist "Dixiecrats" did not all migrate to the Republican Party. "Dixiecrats" declared that they would rather vote for a "yellow dog" than vote for a Republican because the Republican Party was know as the party for blacks. Today, some of those "Dixiecrats" continue their political careers as Democrats, including Robert Byrd, who is well known for having been a "Keagle" in the Ku Klux Klan.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Democrats have been running our inner-cities for the past 30 to 40 years, and blacks are still complaining about the same problems. More than $7 trillion dollars have been spent on poverty programs since Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty with little, if any, impact on poverty. Diabolically, every election cycle, Democrats blame Republicans for the deplorable conditions in the inner-cities, then incite blacks to cast a protest vote against Republicans.
MLK was a Republican because he knew this.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
My point was that the meaning of the word "republican" changed over time. Republicans had a very noble attitude in the past - I never disagreed. But you just avoided my argument that MLK had anticapitalist and pro-democraticsocialist tendencies, thats why he surely wouldnt be a republican today. Because today they are extremist nationalists. EoThisD.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
You're not an anti-Semite for thinking that. You're just wrong.
The fault for civilian casualties is on the PAlestinians who conduct war operations disguised as civilians. That's a war crime by the way, and brands them unlawful combatants. They also use ambulances and hospitals. The entire Palestinian way of war is based on perfidy.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
TenseAlcyoneus, unfortunately you're coming across as the anti-Semite. The Palestine Christian/Muslim semites are herded into the highest human concentration on the planet. By far. They are denied not only water, but the right to standardized self-defense. If they are in civilian areas and "look" like civilians, its because they are forced into such mechanisms by the Zionist regime. Your appraisal is simplistically dishonest, bordering on pathological. Apologize to the world or be quiet.
farleysbarley 2 years ago
TenseAlcyoneus, your regime among whose "military" swagger about with t-shirts illustration the shooting of Palestinian children are afforded no such luxury to brand anyone an unlawfull combatant. Your roundly debunked propaganda is laughable and you know it. Your regime has good reason to ban, harass and murder foreign media - you are guitly. If you did to Americans what you do Palestinians, you would be wiped off the map in a week. Thank the Palestinians for their remarkable restraint.
farleysbarley 2 years ago
So Israel is so much better!!! Yeah! Like when the IDF called hundreds of houses to warn them of possible bombings during Operation Cast Lead (Because they care!) Only problem is that they called the wrong ones and the people who lived in them ran away to homes that were actually bombed! Oh, but that was a mistake! Or, what about the drone attacks? State of the art technology! So accurate, it killed lots of innocent children. I oppose all war crimes. Israel is not exempt from this.
checkunderyourbed 2 years ago
Pinpoint accuracy is impossible. Civilian deaths are inevitable when Palestinian terrorists illegally hide amongst civilians, illegally disguise themselves as civilians, illegally operate from Geneva protected sites, engage in acts of perfidy, and so on.
The civilian deaths are on the heads of the Palestinians who do not observe the most basic precautions outlined in the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Stop getting your so called Facts from Rush LimpSchmuck!
peymaania 2 years ago
Under international law, the Palestinians have every right to defend themselves against an illegal occupier.
The only quibble is over the lack of guidance of the Qassam rockets [ie, firecrackers], which qualifies them as 'indiscriminate'. But the distinction is convenient Israeli hair-splitting.
If my head were as full of garbage as yours, I'd be tense, too : )
danastonn 2 years ago 2
Oops, sorry, this comment is not where I intended it to be.
danastonn 2 years ago
Under international law, Israel has every right to defend itself against acts of war, including occupying territory from which the attacks come.
The Qassam rockets are INTENTIONALLY aimed at civilian areas. Suicide bombers INTENTIONALLY target civilians. Hamas SAYS it targets civilians. We don't have to gues about this stuff.
This is not splitting hairs, but noticing the obvious. The only way to miss it is to be a liar.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
"During the operation, BTselem received particularly grave reports of [israeli]soldiers
intentionally aiming gunfire directly at civilians who were not involved in the hostilities
and who did not endanger the soldiers lives in any way."
Go read Bt'selem. There is even enough video evidence. Now that human rights groups openly exposed the INTENTIONALLY killing of palastinian people, is Hamas allowed to conquer Israel and build its own settlements there? Equal standarts for everyone!
Staubdumm 2 years ago
But the standards aren't equal. Israeli forces operate in distinctive uniforms, as required by the Geneva conventions, the Palestinians do not. Palestinian training emphasizes the use of civilians for cover, concealment, and deception. All of that is illegal.
Under international law, all casualties resulting from Palestinian perfidy are the fault of the Palestinians themselves. So, what you've written is untrue and contrary to established conventions of land warfare.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
"When your army is smaller then your enemy's, you must turn to guerrilla tactics"
krum369 2 years ago
OK, fine. But perfidy is a war crime. Civilian casualties caused by perfidious tactics are on the head of the guerillas, not the conventional occupiers.
We must still blame the Palestinians for most civilian casualties, even their own.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Ok, lets look at the statistics: (29.9.2000-26.12.2008 by Btselem)
Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces: 4971.
Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians: 727
Palestinians killed by Palestinians 593.
This includes:
Palastinian minors killed by Israelis: "955"
Israeli Minors killed by Palastinians: "123"
I hope you can count.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
"International Law" ha ha ha--that only applies to the "Losers". Remember--- "History" is written for, and by, the "Winners".
van1976 2 years ago
Fair enough.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Of course the standart is not equal, because Palastine is under occupation. Thats like saying "oh, the polish rebells in Poland who fought against the Nazis didnt have uniforms on, so it was illegal!" Hell yea, its illegal, but isnt it funny that you focus on this, and not on the occupation?
Even the Haaretz reported that the IDF uses p. civilians for human shields and cover...
I posted you the statistics. The majority of civilian deaths is caused by the IDF.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
Even under occupation, the Geneva Conventions apply to all belligerents. So, what you've claimed is irrelevant.
The occupation of Palestine is like Allied Forces occupying Nazi Germany, except Nazi's were smart enough to recognize a good deal and end the war. Palestinians aren't.
Tour stats are descriptive. They don't show causation. You're being dishonest.
If the Palestinians hide among civilians, and Israelis don't, then we'd EXPECT more Palestinians casualties. Your inferences are wrong.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Statistics are descriptive? surprise, surprise! Too bad that your whole argument is based on something vague as "causation", even though I just demolished your lie "that most palastinian victims are victims of their own countrymen". Surely the Hamas builds it military complexes in civilian areas, but wait... where does the IDF has its complexes? Ops... in civilan areas. So when hamas blows it up, its surely the guilt of IDF that israeli civilians nearby died by explosion. Nice logic.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Some stats indicate causation, some don't. Yours don't. We're disputing the cause of violence ion the occupied territories, Since, you've made causal claims, it's strange to see you repudiating them.
You attributed this to me: "most palastinian victims are victims of their own countrymen." But I never wrote that. It's easy to "demolish" positions I've never taken. Quite dishonest of you.
IDF fully complies with Geneva. The Palestinians do not. Palestinians are to blame.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
You mean the people who you've robbed of a nation? If an unwelcome person enters your house, you have every right to do what you want to them. This is true of any situation in the world, from my home to yours. One would not blame french resistance forces in WW2 for disrupting the peace. Your stance is absurd.
0SR0 2 years ago 2
Perhaps, but this is even more absurd: "You mean the people who you've robbed of a nation?"
The first intifada, and every one after, is a xenophobic, anti-immigrant movement. Arabs had not problem with those dark-skinned Jews present in Trans-Jordan since ancient times. But let those white-skinned, European Jews show up - and you get the Palestinian movement.
Anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-human-rights, theocratic, xenophobic, dictatorial Palestine - that's what you support? How absurd.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
We dont support that. Actually we know that the israeli blocking of airway, borders-passings, ressources, medical treatment, other imports and other strangulation blocks palastinian devellopment into an open society. Its making them more extreme as provable.
Does palastinians havent got the right to self-determination, wether theocratic or democratic? Why do you care about this anyway when you actually describe them like animals, incapable of governing themselves free of israeli occupation?
Staubdumm 2 years ago
@Staubdumm "and other strangulation blocks palastinian devellopment into an open society. Its making them more extreme as provable."
This is a good argument. There is contrary evidence, however. When Israel pulled out of the West Bank and Gaza, it made things much worse, not better. All evidence supports the thesis that Palestinians cannot peacefully govern themselves. Note the word 'peacefully.'
Pals do have a right to self-determination, and Israel has a right of self-defense.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Pals do have a right to self-determination and self-DEFENSE, and Israel has the right to self-defense (it already has a good portion of self-determination). I think thats a better phrase.
Lets be serious, what you mean with "pulled out of the West bank"? It never happened. When Israel pulled out in Gaza it was because it was too costly. Thats why pulling troops out in 6% (gaza) but increasing settlergrowth and soldiers in the rest 94% (WB) is not equal= pulling back.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
No, but that is not absurd in the slightest. Israels expansion into the West bank is robbing a people of the possibility of a two state solution, and thus a nation. I was assuming you would see this.Tell me, what is absurd about this?
And do not let paranoia get the better of you,it has nothing to do with race. Infact, the only racial hate and homophobia right is coming from the extreme right wing party in charge of Israel.The Al-Dawayima massacre, the Deir Yassin massacre,these were the issues
0SR0 2 years ago
I've not accused anyone of racism or anti-semitism for having a differing view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
I must point to a common rhetorical tactic from Real News viewers on the left: assuming facts not in evidence. Since I have not made such accusations, your assumption that paranoia is at work amounts to a false conversational claim.
Israeli expansion is a result of continuos warfare directed against it by Pals and others. The occupation is legal, if it prevents attacks. It does.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
This is true and I congratulate you for it. It was just my impression, I dont have any evidence apart that you claim that Pals can not govern themselves peacefully.
Which still a bit strucks me, I wonder what genetic component of them makes them so uncapable of this. Thats why its not rhetorical.
The second part I attribute to you as well. So I skip that.
How is that building settlements and transferring people there is a way of defense?
Staubdumm 2 years ago
"We must still blame the Palestinians for most civilian casualties, even their own." That was your position.
Building settlements is illegal under Geneva Conventions. Ah right, they are made for defense, right? Next to it, you always avoid that IDF is SOOOO much stronger as palastinian militants. Why do you still push that defense-lie?
And you dismiss serious human rights-records when it comes to Israelis, but rely on them when it comes to palastinian crimes. Very dishonest of you.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
You're right, the settlements are illegal under the Geneva Conventions.
It's not a "defense lie." Palestinians are a strategic threat to Israel. One chemical attack, or a terrorist attack on a chemical facility (like the failed attack in Haifa) and you have problems. An active insurgency terrorizing civilians is a threat. Pals are used by other states to exact political concessions from Israel. This is a serious strategic matter.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
No no, with this argumentation you are as well saying that palastinians have the right to defense and use Israel as a battlezone.
I talked primarly about the threat of "annihiliation" or serious breakdown of the national structures, not about some dead civilians. Currently only one country is capable of annihiliation and destruction, and thats Israel (nukes).
And with your standart applied, palastinians have the right to fight in Israel, since Israel dropped 1ton-bombs on P-neighbourhoods.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
The Palestinians started a war. They war they started was illegal, because it seeks to overthrow UN mandated borders.
The Palestinians act in concert with Syria, Iran, and Hezbolla all of which pose a serious threat to ISrael existence.
Israel dropped bombs on terrorists hiding in P-neighborhoods (you conveniently leave out context) . These Palestinian terrorists act in violation of Geneva. They have no right to do anything.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Yes, the dropped several one-ton bombs on a neighbourhood full of innocent people to kill one terrorist. Thats a very important detail yes. It shows that they are perfectly capable of killing innocent women and children just to get rid of a "terrorist".
As you already confessed, the isr. Gov breaks GenevaC. as well. So they have no right to do anything?
Staubdumm 2 years ago
Israel has a right of self-defense under Article 51. The Palestinians can fight a war legally, but not by the illegal means they've chosen. Again, this is simple to understand.
First, they are not one-ton bombs. Israel has used 500 lb bombs when no other option was available. But mostly they use Hellfire missiles.
Intentional targeting of civilians and indiscriminate bombing are prohibited at law. Israel does neither, Pals do both. Pals also engage in pefidy as a strategy.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Palastine has a right of self-defense under Article 51. You give the palastinians the right to fight in Israel as a battlezone as well. Too bad they are not allowed to arm themselves.
No, they used one-ton bombs as it appeared in the press. Take for example the targetted killing of Rayyan.
Israel does both. Israel as well uses perfidy as a strategy (human shields). And if IDF would be in civilian cloths sometimes (surely it happened), that would legitimaze Hamas killing of isr.civilians?
Staubdumm 2 years ago
Rayyan was hiding in civilian areas, operating out of uniform. The fault for civilians casualties is his and his alone. Israel does not use human shields, every such accusation has been refuted in the end.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Already stated, Israel had the perfect chance of having peace with its neighbouring countries. The only thing they have to do is to stop being an outlaw state and accept the world court decision (stop occupation+settlements; +refugees). Thats generally the offer the saudis gave Israel in the "Arab Peace Initiative". Look it up if you are interested.
Secondly, if Israel is really defending themselves, why do they build settlements there? its rather shows that Israel is on expansion-course.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
You misrepresented B'Tselem. They claim, contrary to the IDF, that the occupied territories are not zones of armed conflict. The B'Tselem claim is ridiculous on it's face.
B'Tselem lies. Jewish Tribune:
"BTselem retracts war crimes accusations against IDF 5 years later. An Israeli human rights group quietly has retracted its inaccurate coverage in which it accused the IDF of killing innocent Arab civilians, the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs reports."
link: tiny(.)cc/BTselemLies
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
I didnt. Yea sure Btselem is wrong such as the international court and the whole world lies.
It says a lot about your character when you claim that because of ONE mistake Btselem has made in its past the whole organization is corrupt. Additionally weird is that you talk of palastinian human rights (antigay) but claim the HumanRight-Organization you have the info from are not reliable. Have fun applying this standart to every other organization. And of course the IDF is a very neutral source.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
Actually, B'Tselem has made many such errors.
I'm not relying on human rights organizations to inform myself about the practices of other states. I read the laws. Israel is the only Middle East state with gay rights, women's rights, and full rights for all Arabs.
I agree it's weird. Weird to read leftists support theocracies and dictators.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
We dont know. I think it shows their strive for truth when they openly admit that they have made a mistake. And since you have no evidence that the natural mistake-index is higher than other serious organisation, you are just wishing they made more mistakes.
As I said, my position is that people generally will devellop into a free and open society, as long as they are not blocked and strangulated in their devellopment.
Short said: Turkey has gay laws too,but just look how gays are treated there
Staubdumm 2 years ago
"full rights for all Arabs"
except for water rights apparently.
micahgee 2 years ago
The IDF does hide behind civilians in the occupied territories. Just check Btselem. It was even in Haaretz. Its not only hiding. Isr. Soldiers openly admitted to have the order "shoot at everything which moves" (like in O.CastLead). Including paramedics.
With your standart applied: Maybe they did count the fact that IDF uses palastinian as human shields in the OcT as "Pal. killed by Pal."?
Staubdumm 2 years ago 2
Under intl law the west bank, jerusalem and gaza are PALESTINIAN TERRITORY and the Israel is illegally occupying them, according to the ICJ in 2004. Stop with this perfidy bullshit bc its based on the assumption that Israel has a right to be there to begin with....
Cefuroxx 2 years ago
Cefuroxx, Israel does have a right to be there. But you illustrate the problem: you idiots don't think there should be a two-state solution. Then you complain when a state recognized by the UN defends itself from annihilation.
It's transparent and dumb.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
I think there should be a "no state" solution. Defends itself from annihilation? It has, since ´71 when it produced a policy called "stalemate" by Kissinger and ignored Sadat´s offer for peace in exchange for Israel´s withdrawal from the Sinai. This led to a huge war and eventually Israel´s withdrawing...it has not chosen peace within its borders. It has chosen expansion and violence.......a little hyper militarized extension of the american imperial project on the edge of the world´s oil
Cefuroxx 2 years ago
Its so funny that somebody who can write properly is so mentally disturbed believing that palastine is a threat to Israel. As I repeated, EVERY military analyist and even non-ones can tell you that Israeli is the millitary superpower - capable of annilihation(nuke).
Oh, does Israel defend itself by building settlements? What kind of defence is this? Did the US did this in Germany as well? or did the Germans did this in Poland, "Lebensraum-Politik"? Thats why your analogy is pretty flawed.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
The Palestinians can't win because AIPAC makes the U.S. give the Israelis billions of U.S. dollars every year to crush them.
badger5079 2 years ago
The US does not give money to Israel. The US gives only loan guarantees. This is a verifiable fact.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
The United States and Israel signed a Memorandum of Understanding in August 2007 committing the U.S. to give Israel $30 billion in military aid over the next decade. This is grant aid, given in cash at the start of each fiscal year. The only stipulation imposed on Israels use of this cash gift is that it spend 74 per cent to purchase U.S. military goods and services....
badger5079 2 years ago
The first grant under this agreement was made in October 2008, for FY2009, in the amount of $2.55 billion. To bring the total 10-year amount to $30 billion, amounts in future years will gradually increase until an annual level of $3.1 billion is reached in FY2013. This will continue through FY2018.
Israel is by far the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid. Since 1949, the United States has provided Israel with $101 billion in total aid, of which $53 billion has been military aid. ..
badger5079 2 years ago
.... For the last 20-plus years, Israel has received an average of $3 billion annually in grant aid;, until now the grant has been a mix of economic and military aid.
Israel receives its aid under vastly more favorable terms than any other recipient. Egypt, for instance, receives $2 billion a year in economic aid, but this is a loan and must be repaid. Saudi Arabia also has U.S. military equipment in its arsenal, but it buys and pays for this equipment and is not given it, as Israel is.
badger5079 2 years ago
badger5079 is right. I was wrong. I stand corrected.
Thank you, badger5079, for setting me straight.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
You admit that I am right?....
This is most perplexing.....
Does not compute....error.....error!!....KABOOM!
badger5079 2 years ago
No. Israel recieve 3 billion us dollar aid to from US every year
timcabc 2 years ago
and then the US forgive those loans
marniespeaks 2 years ago
LOL. Oh yes when people are being abused and the victims fight back let's blame the victims for standing up for themselves. I wonder if you'd say that shit to a rape victim.
LittlePinky82 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
LittlePinky, the Israeli's are also abused by Palestinians. Israel shows remarkable restraint.
The first Intifada was in 1929, long before the existence of an Israeli state.
/watch?v=skYN3q1BsEo
/watch?v=azxjb_deXlo
/watch?v=jKAkVFWFoV0
In the last one, the point made at 4:00 is so very true and so very frustrating. If you are for gay rights, women's rights, human rights, environmentalism, why be against Israel, the one country in the Middle East that has all of those things? It's crazy.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Swallow a camel, and strain a gnat. My God. We're talking about WATER.
keytoothed 2 years ago
Saying that Palestinians abuse Israel- and that Israel shows restraint is ludicrous. Israel is the 4th most powerful military presence in the world. Its like talking about the Soviet Union being abused by Lichtenstein, and congratulating the USSR for not retaliating.
Why be against Israel if they are for human rights? Another ridiculous statement- Israel clearly doesn't regard the Palestinians as humans, has no regard for their environment. Even Israeli Arabs may lose their political rights.
spartan2600 2 years ago 7
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Thousands of rocket strikes. Thousands of dead civilians, INTENTIONALLY targeted by Palestinians. Israelis are abused by Palestinians, mainly by being killed.
75% of Palestinians support attacks on Israeli civilians. Israel must act to stop it. Incidentally, most attacks on Israeli civilians are launched from UN controlled areas.
But Israeli Arabs have political rights. More rights than in any Middle Eastern country, including Palestine.
Israel mostly reacts to Palestinian violence.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
If you are talking about the katyusha rockets- then you mean that 12 people have died, in about the last 20 years, 9 of which were IDF soldiers. There are no "thousands of dead [Israeli] civilians." You are lying. Some in the Knesset want to ban all Arab political parties, and it looks like they could have their wish.
Operation Cast Lead- 1400 Palestinians killed 13 Israelis killed. Who is abusing who? Its not even close, Israel simply massacres people.
spartan2600 2 years ago 6
If you really want to argue that palastinians are a threat to Israel, its like you are saying that a 5-year old child is a threat to an adult. Anybody who knows anything about the military situation knows that Israel is much more powerful - backed by the US.
Israel is not reacting. Its the main aggressor. Dont forget: Israel is occuyping palastine, not the other way round. Israeli is therefor the attacker. Israeli can defends itself on its borders.
Show me the poll with the 75%.
Staubdumm 2 years ago 9
Indeed. Did we denounce the Polish para-militaries who fought back against the German invaders? Did we denounce the Afghans who fought against Soviet invasion? No- in fact, we supported them and call them heroes not. One day, we will all regard the brave Palestinians as the heroes in this conflict as well.
spartan2600 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
No. One day we will regard the Palestinian as bloodthirsty savages who destroyed their own prospects for a state.
Palestinians openly declare they do not want peace but blood. They write it down in their constitutions and covenants. They kill their own who want to make peace. Their society is illiberal, theocratic, and despotic, yet the left supports it. It's bizarre.
Palestinians are the problem. So are it's supporters on the left.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Stfo.
You can just stereotype thousands of women, children and babies like that.
Parsa1859 2 years ago 2
The Palestinian government regularly announces that it accepts the 2 state solution. Some covenants/constitutions from 30 years ago, which I'm sure is what you heard about, do not mean anything today. However, its difficult to have a sovereign state when you are being occupied by an aggressive and oppressive foreign force.
Israel destroyed the secular nationalist movement in Palestine (PLO) decades ago, and left them with no where else to turn but the religious extremists.
spartan2600 2 years ago 5
True. Israel even supported the early Hamas to weaken the PLO. Just google.
Staubdumm 2 years ago 7
The PLO explicitly rejected any political solution in favor of war.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
The PLO explicitly rejected any political solution in favor of war.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
tensealcoyneus, its the israelies who kill their own who want peace ie Yitzak Rabin?? Its the israeli society that is non democratic where if you speak against the state you have huge repercussions in terms of your job, your life your families safety ie Illan Pappe who spoke out against the gov and was forced to leave the country to avoid death threats. instead of being a troll who puts out lies why dont you face the facts?
antiwarcampaigner 2 years ago
Hamas has accepted Israel some years ago. It therefore broken its own Charta.
The reason why palastinians have so miserable political conditions is because Israeli blocks every devellopment there. Israel blocks airways, borders, medical treatment, food, water supplies. Israel strangulates palastinian.
You support the Lebensraum-Politik of the Israelis, which is much more bizzare. Let the palastinians decide themselves how they want to live. Put israeli soldiers out of Palastine.
Staubdumm 2 years ago 4
Staubdumm wrote, "Hamas has accepted Israel some years ago. It therefore broken its own Charta"
Which is to say, it never accepted Israel's existence at all. Hamas is a religious organization that thinks Allah gave the land to Muslims and Muslims alone.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
As soon as Palestinians don't have to worry about their house being bombed/bulldozed/shot at, and don't have to worry about getting food the next day, and don't have to worry about getting snipered on the way to work, then they will have the breathing room to create a democratic society. But no democratic society has ever survived the sort of apartheid and oppression that Palestine has been made to suffer. You can't blame the victims for being victims.
spartan2600 2 years ago 11
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Israel pulled out of Palestine in 2005. Palestinians promptly began destroying Jewish holy sites and launching thousands and thousands of terrorist attacks.
If the Pals commit acts of war, they will get war. This is as it should be.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
The palestinians are the peaceful ones..the war was started and is continued by the dirty jew.
ryanjwebb 2 years ago
Complete lie. Israel never left. What next, are you going to pretend their are no such thing as ethnic cleansing or refugee camps? Palestinian-denial at its ugliest...You have the chain of events and priority all wrong - If the Israeli regime wants to continue to terrorize the Palestinian people, they will get war. The rational world can related to the terror the Palestinians endure...You are dismissed, after exposing your true character. Stop visiting those hate sites....Adios.
farleysbarley 2 years ago
Why can't I just believe what the Palestinian government, Hamas, says? "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement...There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
That's in their covenant, Article Thirteen.
Palestinians don't want peace.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
You avoided my argument. Hamas already takes part in international conferences. It even agreed on the UN peace solution (world consensus apart US and Israel). Thats why the Hamas Charter is a pamphlet and not a political guideline. As I said, they accepted Israel in its legal borders (as the whole world agrees on). It was some years ago in mainstream press.
Who cares if Israeli government believes Hamas or not? They simply have no the right to occupy palastine.
Staubdumm 2 years ago 3
The occupation is perfectly legal. When acts of war come from a territory, every state has the right to defend itself.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Oh, how does Israel defend itselfs in territories which they dont belong to? Do they defend themselves in foreign countries by building settlements there (thats breach of Geneva Convention). Do Palastinians have the same right?
Sure the palastians ARE VERY dangerous, regardless though even EVERY non-military expert knowledge knows that Israel is a military superpower.
The palastinians restrained through a weapon-embargo must be pretty tough that the Israelis have to stay there for 40 years.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
Once again. Israel abided by the 1949 borders, Palestinians attacked. Israel abided by the 1967 borders, Palestinians attacked. Israel pulled out of the territories, Palestinians attacked.
Israel must occupy the territories to prevent ongoing Palestinian attacks. This is perfectly legal and simple to understand.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
"Israel pulled out of the territories, Palestinians attacked."
Please, show me anything, any newspaper article, any history book which says that Israels stopped the illegal occupation. When you mean Gaza, they pulled back the troops from 6% of territory. Thats not pulling back at all. Why do you again avoid this?
You always avoid the settlements, which are illegal and show that Israel has rather an expansion-agenda than defending itself on its legal borders.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
The 6% figure is wholly made up.
- On the settlement myth: tiny(.)cc/SettlementMyth
- On Gaza Israel pulls out ALL troops: tiny(.)cc/IsraelPullsOutOfGaza Israel dismantles settlements: tiny(.)cc/SettlementsDismantledByForce Palestinian attack stats: tiny(.)cc/AttackStats
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Go calculate yourself: 363 km² is Gaza, the WB is 5.800 km². I think you didnt understand my point, because we are talking of a complete pull out, not just a tiny bit of 6% (thats only Gaza). If I conquer your garden and leave 6% of it, I dont leave your garden at all.
Settlementmyth is very funny. I like it how he says "natural growth". Try it on your neighbour. Go to his garden and say "I have the strive for natural growth, therefor this is mine now!
These settlements are illegal.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
Israel pulled out of Gaza. Palestianians used it as a safe have to conduct attack on Israeli territory. It's perfectly legal for Israel to re-occupy.
Whenever Israel pulls out, Palestinians attacks intensify. Occupation is a RESULT of Palestinian attacks, not the cause. From the first in 1949, this has been the case.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
yea, Gaza, 6%. You repeat yourself. Thats not "pulling out". Thats just leaving 6%. Additionally its still blocking its airway, ressources, food, medical treatment. You forget the 94% which is not left. As long as palastine is occupied, they have the legal right for self-defense.
Anyway, I am getting bored by this discussion. I will end the discussion now. Bye
Staubdumm 2 years ago
Palestinians have a legal right to self-defense, but not to perfidy and terrorism.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
LOL, you made me laugh so hard, oh they pull out of Gaza ha, so why do those Zionist Nazi Israelis are keeping the 1.6+ million residents in the Gaza Ghetto/concentration camp, blocking them from land, sea, and air?
Oh, occupation is a result of Palestinian attacks ha, wow ... and who's occupying who here?? Palestine does not belong to those Zionist European thanks and Israel is nothing but a rouge entity and cancer. Stop babbling those Zionist lies unless you are one!
llpal4ever 2 years ago 2
Why are some of the territories occupied? Because of continuous, perfidious, guerilla warfare waged by Palestinians against Israeli civilians - that's why.
It's a simple historical fact. The Palestinians are the aggressors. They attacked after the 1948 borders were established by the UN, and they have not ceased since.
You do show quite clearly the racist nature of the Palestinian cause. It's not Jews that are the problem, but mostly white, European, immigrant Jews that Palestinians hate.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
What guerrilla warfare ... Let' see, so it's ok for the Zionist gangs back in 48 to come over to Palestine, take over the land, commit massacres against the owners of the land, create this bogus state of Israel and when the Palestinians resist and fight back it's call terrorism? You have a twisted view of how things are. Israel has gobbled and been gobbling a land does not belong to them and you are telling me it is their land? The only racist, terrorist, Nazi here is Israel.
llpal4ever 2 years ago
The State of Israel exists. It is not going to disappear. So, what now? There are only three choices.
(1) A war of annihilation.
(2) A never-ending, low-intensity war by Palestinian aggressors.
(3) A two-state political solution.
Since you and most Palestinians reject (3), that leaves only (1) and (2). I submit that Israel will ultimately win both. The best hope for Palestinians is (3), but they seem too recalcitrant or too blinded by religious hate to recognize their own self-interest.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
If there's no stopping these anti-Christ Zionazis from wiping Palestine off the map, we should hope they soon self-destruct, which contrary to your fantasy Jewish State on perpetual American welfare, is quite plausible.
lughcious 2 years ago
Hum .. wow, and you came up with that all by yourself? Yea, option 3 is a load of crap .. what 2 state solution, and where would the Palestinian state go ha? There is no land left in the west bank that has no settlements on it + what gets stolen every day by your beloved Zionist settlers. Yea, Israel exists today on the ruins of Palestine but one day it will be gone like all tyrant, Nazi, fascist, apartheid regimes.
LOL @ Palestinian aggressors .. spoken like a true Zionist
llpal4ever 2 years ago
What about a one-state solution, in which Palestinians get to vote in Israeli elections; a solution also known as 'democracy.'
NathanZackery 2 years ago
Actually there's another choice you didn't include.
Which is (4) stop both military and financial support of a terrorist state like Israel from any possible country especially the US and powerful financial or banking families.
If (4) ever happened Zionist Israel would long be gone. It is thanks to US support and the most powerful bankers on earth that it managed to start all the long list of military offensives without provocation and beating Arab armies before.
sh3nk 2 years ago
TenseAlcyoneus - This is the problem with Zionist supporters, your stupidity and ignorance clearly annoys me. The only thing you accomplish by supporting genocidal regimes such as I-srael is showing your totally lack of empathy and sympathy for another human beings.
Guerrila warfare waged?
You hypocrit. What about I-sraeli settlers beating Palestinians with whatever they can get their hands on.
Die far away you fucking asshole.
sh3nk 2 years ago
There IS a low-level war going on. Israel does NOT want a two state solution. It wants ownership of the West Bank and Gaza (and Lebanon up to the Litani River). It is increasing settlements and fencing off Palestinian land to gradually absorb the whole area and is also destroying Palestinian agriculture and taking Palestinian water in an attempt to starve the non Jews out.
This will end when the US is no longer able to pay for Israel's war machine.
fluffymcdeath 2 years ago
Oslo is proof that Israel wants a two state solution (TSS), and that Pals don't want a TSS. Israel's public pronouncements advocate a TSS. Pals public statements are against a TSS. This stuff is very obvious.
The Pals signed treaties at Oslo and in the Road Map to dismantle terrorist networks and confiscate illegal weapons. Instead, Pals promoted terrorism and imported more weapons. Even the UN admits this.
The fence is built on the Green Line, not in the West Bank.. It's a necessary defense.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
TenseAlcyoneus, from your comments it is so obvious that you are an American. You are ill informed
nomoreterrorism 2 years ago
rubbish, Israel has the shrewdest grey matter anywhere...They will never go down like that, who are you kidding?
remnant1978 2 years ago
to be cunning is stupid.
RosicrucianAlchemy 2 years ago
o u mean when the jews only made up 30% of the population and took 55% of the land while the palestinians and christians made up 70% of the population and shared 45% of the land. makes alot of sense. ur ignorance annoys the fuck out of me
zizzy007 2 years ago
you just make me laugh. Have you tried doing standups. lol. by the way ur standup is only based on you proving urself an ignorant ass. lol.
azharaliahmed 2 years ago
Hamas just recently AGAIN rejected a two state solutions. Staubdumm, you are misinformed.
Link: tiny(.)cc/HamasRejects2State510
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
You should reread the article:
Hamas envisions a Palestinian state based on the pre-1967 border with Israel, with Jerusalem as the capital, all Jewish settlements dismantled and full sovereignty over land, air and water.
You know what? This is their LEGAL RIGHT. All settlements, all occupation is after 1967 is formally ILLEGAL and a high crime. This is fundamental law. Its even acknowledged by the World Court and the whole world.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
Then why does the Hamas covenant,to which every Hamas member swears, claim: (1) Israel has no right to exist, (2) political solutions are only useful if they help lead to the destruction of Israel, (3) all of Trans-Jordan is a waqf given by god to Muslims only.
Hamas supports the 1967 borders, they support a pullout of the West Bank and Gaza --- so they can launch more effective attacks against Israeli civilians.
This is in fact what they did when Israel pulled out. No speculation needed.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
By the way: the article says that it rejects an Israel with a capital in Jerusalem. It doesnt say they want to annihiliate israel. Its just about the capital-status. And the current situation is that Israel illegally occupied half of it. Hamas is allowed to have Jerusalem as its capital, but only East-Jerusalem. Currently, its not, because Israel occupies illegally this part.
Staubdumm 2 years ago
But HAMAS says it wants to annihilate Israel. You can read the Hamas covenant. watch Palestinian televisions, and read Palestinian newspapers. They openly declare that they want to destroy Israel as a religious duty of all Muslims to kill Jews.
It's completely explicit and openly stated every single day by Hamas.
The mendacity of Palestinian supporters is staggering.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
because the supposed "two state solution" was completely unfair and actually would allow israel almost complete control of palestine and its citizens
Israel is controlled by people who completely evil and have no consideration for the lives of any humans other that their own citizen
falling333 2 years ago
Why can't I just believe the former Palestinian government, the PLO?
"Opposing any political solution offered as an alternative to demolishing the Zionist occupation in Palestine, as well as any project intended to liquidate the Palestinian case or impose any international mandate on its people."
That's Article 21 of the Fateh Constitution
Palestinians don't want peace.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Thats like saying Czech "rebells" who fought against the Nazi-occupation dont want peace. Yea, right, they want the fucking occupiers out of their country. If in this conflict Israel would place his high-militarized soldiers on its legal border, there would be barely conflict at all.
Staubdumm 2 years ago 2
Israel pulled out of Gaza and the West bank, completely. They got a gigantic increase in terrorist attacks in return. This is all verifiable.
TenseAlcyoneus 2 years ago
Israel pulled out of West bank? I think you live in Phantasy-land. Actually the settler growth in West bank increased while Israel pulled out its settlers from Gaza. Apart from that, Israel even hasnt stopped the occupation of Gaza, because it still controlls water, borders, airway, entry, import etc. Thats illegal, and thats occupation.
Staubdumm 2 years ago 2