Zizek on love, deconstruction and "cynicism"

[rainwindandwolf]

Cynicism is misunderstood

[whauffend]

@rainwindandwolf Totally misunderstood AND misused. In political discourse here in the Netherlands, realistic observations are very often done away with by putting on an ugly face and labeling them as 'too cynical' (whatever that may mean). It is mainly the christians who do this, but that can hardly be a surprise.

[aha45]

when the...elephants? What's he saying?

[freyaeve]

@aha45

ancients

[dialectic76]

@aha45 "When the Ancients directly said I love you, they meant exactly the same - all of these distanciations were included. So it's we today who are afraid that if we were to put it directly, 'I love you,' that it would mean too much. _We_ believe in it."

[ThewildRageofGordon]

"we believe in it" : What Zizek misses - although it is a nice point on his view (also a true point in its world) - is that deconstructionists are aware of this. The problem is like that of the unconscious. The unconscious is really something that we are unaware of. Thus all the to do about psychoanalysis. Same thing different ball park.

[ThewildRageofGordon]

And that one is a double typo ..... never ending ... :O

[ThewildRageofGordon]

As --- develops it it a nice iron way . Ha ha - the earlier post is a Freudian slip. :)

[ThewildRageofGordon]

As ---- develops it in a nice ironic name? Who does he say?

[arzoyan]

A classless,monyless,stateless communities of humanity in cooperation to take care of our needs and well being , expressing our creative energies in freedom of being. Capitalism is the manipulation of resources and technology for the private gain of a few in a monetary system that enslaves immense humanity in wage slavery of useless employment system that dehumanises and denies our human creative potential for a world of harmony within and without.

[timetochilli]

that is amazing zizek !

[ParisChiLaNy]

@warriorprince1010 @JohnColt Yawn. Hopefully you two are in a room contrasting whose Star Wars collection is smaller. Food stamps do not exist in America. Self-educate yourselves via volunteering for people whose minds and bodies have been mangled and s-h-u-t u-p. Study the %'s of where the US Economy is invested: Defense, not assistance programs: education; food; shelter; et al social aid. Do not reply: People (?) using the Bible; Suede; and McDonalds as tropes do not interest me.

[k0bb9]

I'm having a hard time understanding deconstruction. is it just breaking thing down to their most basic components?

[warriorprince1010]

Another so called wise man. These type of wise men have ruined mankind for centuries. No ideology has ruined so many lives as socialism. Hitler, Mao, Stalin ,Brown, The Eu.

[adzug]

@warriorprince1010 he has a rationale and point of veiw. you just say " hes like hitler" meaningless. you present no argument of your own. and in fact , there are several "socialist " countries that have a much better standard of living then the usa. but maybe you can just say no no no and then itll be true to you.

[warriorprince1010]

@adzug Hitler was a socialist. There are no socialist countries with a better standard of living than the USA. Do not even dare to say Scandinavian countries are socialist as they are all capitalist.

[adzug]

@warriorprince1010 like i said. yes they are socialist but again "no no no" works well for you. and becuz a thing is labeled natl socailist means nothing of the concept as we talk bout it today. it was all about the industrialists and the nazi party. facsism in a word. see you cant think of things only in blk/wht. govt like usa can have social programs and capitalism as well.

[warriorprince1010]

@adzug No they are not socialist. North Korea, Russia, Cuba are socialist and no they are not a success. All Scandinavian countries have lower corporation tax than the USA. As do the UK and France.

[warriorprince1010]

@adzug If you have socialist and capitalism then you are not socialist, so again you are wrong. All developed countries allow for private ownership of businesses, thus they are capitalist.

[warriorprince1010]

@adzug He believes in the end of peoples right to own a country hence he is bad as all socialists are. No country in the developed world uses Zizek ideals, only Russia and North Korea do. Yes Hitler was a socialist as he wanted no private ownership. Socialism is an economic ideology, so yes Hitler, Mao and Stalin were all socialists.

[adzug]

@warriorprince1010 look all i can say is go read up on germany during hitler. he was for private ownership very much, it was his reliance on the industrialists that made the politics of the country what it was. krupps private industry, volkswagon private industry. these men were rich thru the nazis. they even rounded up the socialists at the time for the camps. all documented, look it up.

[warriorprince1010]

@adzug Bad, bad example dude...

"Volkswagen was originally founded in 1937 by the Nazi trade union, the German Labour Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront)." Ouch, Hitler indeed believed in state ownership. I am a centralist. I want state owned, police, fire, ambulance,military schools and hospitals, but all banks, car companies, hair salons, farms, and other businesses should be owned by people, NOT the state.

[adzug]

@warriorprince1010 ur right bout volkswagon. good to be corrected.and i agree bout free mkts in hair salons and the like. but its also tru bout the socialists being rounded up and the industrialists profit increasing while workers wages were slashed.

[warriorprince1010]

@adzug A high minimum wage solves many poverty problems and does not cause unemployment. Raising the minimum wage helps to share wealth better than tax rises or government control of businesses. High taxes and low wages causes unemployment and does not help the poor. State should own services like roads, bridges, police, fire, schools hospitals but people should have a chance of living a dream, like Jobs at Apple.

[AmrAS1985]

@warriorprince1010 Sorry mate, high minimum wages do call unemployment. Thats economics 101. High minimum wage means less workers hired as it becomes cheaper and more economical to use another of the factors of production rather than labour as for example capital ie machinery. Every dollar increase in minimum wage nation wide leaves a few hundred thousand unemployed.

[warriorprince1010]

@AmrAS1985 No it does not. According to you if the minimum wage was $1 an hour and the USA flooded their country with poor people from 3rd world countries this would make the US economy stronger...no it would not. People on minimum wage need food stamps and rent paid by taxes, that come from businesses. You already pay a higher minimum wage, just indirectly.



[AmrAS1985]

@warriorprince1010 Wow this is an old thread... just got to it now. Im an economics major. :) Minimum wage increases unemployment.. As less ppl want to hire you, A car wash manager will go for the automatic car wash machines than pay you to wash cars at their car wash. McDs will have less staff around and try to computerize certain aspects of the job.. Its really that simple. :)

[warriorprince1010]

@AmrAS1985 A minimum wage of 60% the average wage will not cause unemployment, no. There are only 2 countries with this Switzerland and Norway and both have full employment. What you happen to be studying has no relevance, you are simply wrong.

[AmrAS1985]

@warriorprince1010 warriorprince you are arguing against common knowledge. Switzerland and norway i dont know much about but there must be some specefic extreme factors there that explain it if what you say is true. Minimum wage in a country makes businesses also leave that country and produce in say china, etc. which means unemployment. Same like increasing taxes. This is all available on even wikipedia! Common knowledge really, check first i dont know why you are still debating.

[warriorprince1010]

@AmrAS1985 No raising the minimum wage allow a cut in taxes and more people would spend money, at worst it would have no effect either way. At best it would create jobs as the tax cuts that accompany it would help entrepreneurs.

[JohnColt]

@warriorprince1010 Minimum wage does raise unemployment - that's a fact. And the minimum wage IS government control of business, and more importantly, of people. The minimum wage is a law that says: if you have low skills and get turned away from a job, you are NOT allowed to negotiate by offering to work for a lower wage. What right does the government have to take away such a basic right? Minimum wage laws benefit the already employed, by restricting competition, at the expense of the poorest.

[warriorprince1010]

@JohnColt Minimum wage does cut unemployment - that's a fact. It sure is. Offering to work for a lower wage, what century are you in? Mcdonalds offers minimum wage, anyone can get a job there, no qualifications needed,same with cleaning. Raising the minimum wage creates jobs as many unskilled people will not work for minimum wage if it is too low.

[JohnColt]

@warriorprince1010 McD can't employ "anybody"; they have a budget. And if they were failing to hire enough employees due to low wages, then they would HAVE to increase wages or make do with fewer employees. So min wage is pointless at best.

My friend can't afford to hire anybody at min wage but, thanks to a loophole, she has 3 "employees" whom she pays ZERO - interns. By your logic, that loophole should be removed so that she could legally only hire people at minimum wage. Who would benefit?

[warriorprince1010]

@JohnColt McD pays as little as they can, os raise the little a little bit higher. Few int he USA will work for McD so they get immigrants to do it, this is a false economy. Question..who do you think pays for the education, health and rent of $5 an hour immigrants??? The same businesses that pay them a too low to live wage. THEY ALREADY pay them a higher wage just indirectly.

[JohnColt]

@warriorprince1010 We'll have to agree to disagree - I don't share your disdain for immigrants.

... but It's not a false economy. Free immigration and unregulated wages are characteristic of strong growth; that benefits everybody. Min wage might keep McDs workers' wages up, but it makes the burgers more costly.

Unemployment goes up, and goods get more expensive... yippie.

[warriorprince1010]

@JohnColt He loses the argument so in comes the cheap shots. So basically your economy is based on exploitation of illegal immigrants? Wait a minute you work in Washington right? Unemployment comes down and wages go up, people are no longer exploited and you have a real economy where people need little to no government help after they graduate from education. No answer to the point that taxes have to go up to provide education and health, rent and food stamps.

[dilbertgeg]

@JohnColt In free market theory, redist of wealth occurs thru work + sales + wages for few who don't yet own a biz or self-empl. Adam Smith approved "combinations" of labor to balance market power of "combinations" of capital.

But as Herbert Hoover said, US economy has not been free market "dog eat dog" since 1800s. Small dogs were eating Big Dogs. Big Dogs demanded govt protection. Kevin Carson takes that back to early Ind Age where English govt + capital used laws+force against Labor.

[dilbertgeg]

by those methods of force by govt + capital oligarchy, free market for labor was diminished, and thru later methods by state regulations + monopoly + corp cartels, prices were artificially inflated, wealth accumulated, and LARGE property ownership established which would not have occurred in free market and would not be sustainable in free market.

In other words, Govt helped create Rentier class of parasites using privilege and favoritism thru entire history of capitalism.

[SUpersaiyajinjerkbag]

What bitcn

[deconstruction13]

Slavoj Zizek: no words describe him

[JohnOhn]

Who does he refer to at :33?

[dry3rlint]

@JohnOhn James Fowler--see the Stages of Faith.

[JohnOhn]

@dry3rlint "'Fowler', ah - many thanks for the tip and the thoughts. - JP

[thefirstroom]

@JohnOhn No, it should be Robert Pfaller.

[theseanze]

ad absurdum political correctness and relativism are a big part of it too. I think it also has something to do with the paranoia induced by the "never-again" ideological approach to eradicating ideology with Hitler, Stalin, and Mao as the straw men of progressive thinking. The solution isn't to make people afraid of devotion to a cause (analogical to love), but to raise awareness of what we have in common.

Deconstruction makes us objective but then you have to go in and connect with reality.

[absinth1987]

this is a cruical point in Zizeks Philosophy: its perspective of and relation to deconstruction ...

[nyc999]

Such is the litigious society, everything needs to be qualified to be safe from prosecution.

That's what happens when lawyers run the world!

[leethal59]

And what if everything needs to be qualified to be safe from prosecution?

[invdrzim]

One of my favorite parts of the documentary.

-b